I've never followed the pack, like, you know, I just do what I feel and my heart is right
for me and I go for it, whether other people are on board or not.
It doesn't matter.
I'm on board and I'll back myself hundred percent.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe, and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
I don't know about you, but in this time of social isolation, I really crave connected
conversations, so I'm going to dig deep to give you a new window into the souls of the
people we're curious to get to know and understand.
There might be tears as well as laughter as we celebrate the real life flaws and vulnerabilities
that make us human.
Ursula Carlson is a funny woman.
She's been making people laugh since she was a little girl growing up in South Africa.
However, she didn't realise she could make a career out of her gift until she moved to
Now, her career is full of comedy festivals, TV shows, a Netflix special, and her new tour,
Life Hasn't Always Been Easy, though, and I wanted to discover how Ursula has used pure
grit and laughter to change the course of her life.
I think you are hilarious.
When did you discover that you were funny?
It's like homosexuality.
I think you always know when you look back at it and you go, yeah, I think I always knew.
But I remember when I was in primary school, I was seven or eight years old and my parents
This is the early 80s in South Africa.
It's a very conservative country and it's very Christian, too.
So not a lot of people are divorced.
You stay in the family unit, come hell or high water, no matter how toxic it is.
And so my parents got divorced.
Every start of the school year, every start of the term, they were almost like this survey
for the school kind of thing.
And I think it's kind of to determine what kind of decile income level we're dealing
But this is how they did it.
So then they go, put your hands up if you live in this area.
Put your hands up if you live in that area.
Put your hands up if your parents are married or divorced.
So of course, we were always the only kids who had divorced parents.
And then all the teachers were so fascinated, they're like, oh, your parents, why are your
parents divorced?
And I didn't know.
I'm seven, eight years old.
I don't know why they got divorced.
So I went home and I said to my mom that the teachers want to know why they got divorced.
So my mom goes, you just tell the teacher that I really wanted to be a widow, but your
dad wouldn't drink the poison.
I didn't know what that meant.
I went back to school with teachers like, why did your parents get divorced?
And I go, because my mom wanted to be a widow, but my dad wouldn't drink the poison.
So the teachers of course lost their shit.
She went out the room because this is before WhatsApp groups.
So she went and got other teachers and other teachers went and got other teachers and they
were all cracking up.
And I didn't know why it was funny, but I liked the result.
I liked the, you know, I liked the effect.
I say something, you laugh, I'm like, this is good.
And then that was just always from then on, that was kind of my, my purpose in life is
to crack people up.
But what I think is so fascinating too, about you Oshila, is that you have this ability
to make people laugh, but in a way it's almost like, would you say a coping mechanism?
Because you've had a lot of darkness and sadness in your early life.
I guess it's sort of, you know, if you boil it down on a very deep level, it is a coping
But I think that's sort of my default setting.
You know, some people's default is, you know, whatever their thing is, anger, rage, whatever,
whereas that is mine, is to crack a joke.
As soon as something bad happens, like I broke my collarbone earlier in the year.
I was still unconscious.
I had a concussion, the whole thing.
And as soon as I came to, I was lying in the driveway of this farm.
And all I thought was, we have to film this.
I didn't even know what was broken or what was wrong with me, but I knew I could get
a joke out of it at the end of it.
And I was cracking up the nurses and stuff in the hospital.
Even I had to have surgery.
And when I came to from anesthetic, I realized that I was cracking jokes and they were laughing.
So I think it's just, it is my absolute default and it does help, you know, get through the
And I think that's why when you look at people who work in industries that are pretty dark,
like nursing or, you know, any industry where you can pick up a touch of PTSD, which I have,
their default is humor and dark humor.
Mine isn't as dark, but definitely, I mean, I don't see the bad stuff that nurses that
So that's just my default, I reckon.
Now you mentioned their PTSD, because in your extraordinary memoir, Rolling with the Punchlines,
you talk about how you got the good bits from your mum, but the bad bits from your dad.
Perhaps you could explain what that means.
Because my dad is like an abusive drunk and my mum is the nurturing mum type.
So my dad is everything that textbook that you would go, this is an awful person.
This is an awful, awful person.
But I learned more from my dad than I did from my mum, ever, because you don't learn
from the good stuff, you know, like that's just, you're feeding me, you're clothing me,
but you learn from the bad stuff, the hard stuff, you know what not to do, you know,
through experience.
I mean, if you burn yourself once, you know, fire is not your friend to touch or to hold
So I think it's important to have that, not like I don't think everyone should have bad
shit, but I think it's important to acknowledge that just the dark stuff and the bad stuff
isn't necessarily always terrible, if you can take positive things from it.
And I think that is a really beautiful way to look at it, because you're so right, we
don't learn what we're made of or what we can endure when everything's fantastic.
We actually learn when we are either at our rock bottom or we're going through some pretty
Yeah, yeah, that's not saying you have to hit rock bottom to learn from stuff.
You can, you can observe, like my mum always says, you're not going to live long enough
to make all the mistakes yourself.
Sometimes you have to learn from other people's mistakes.
And I 100% agree with that.
But then you have to have your eyes open because you will not see opportunities and you will
not see other people's failures or your own if you're not keeping your eyes open.
You know, like my brother once said to me, you get all the lucky breaks.
I'm like, no, I'm ready.
I'm just ready. I see it.
When the opportunity comes, I will take it.
Whether I think I'm ready or not, in my heart, I would rather just go and learn as I go than
miss the entire opportunity.
Because, you know, people talk themselves out of stuff.
They're like, I can't do it.
I have never done it.
I'm like, neither have I.
Neither have most of the people that's doing it at the minute.
But you just kind of get in and get involved and learn on the job kind of thing.
There's always someone that's willing to mentor or to talk you through it.
So true. But you're one of those.
How did you describe it? A tall tree.
I got bullied at school.
I got a lot of shit because I was very independent.
I would just sort of follow my own head and not.
I've never followed the pack.
I just do what I feel and my heart is right for me.
Whether other people are on board or not, it doesn't matter.
I'm on board and I'll back myself 100%.
I mean, people have laughed at me in my face.
And then I would say to my grandmother, this is happening.
And she goes, the tallest trees get the most wind.
So you have to expect when you're sticking your head out.
And I guess it sort of comes to the tall poppy thing where if you just rise a bit,
someone's ready to cut you down.
But if you're ready, you can dodge it.
You know, like, so I am a tall tree and I'm going to take a lot of wind.
But that's fine. I quite like a breeze.
Beautiful, cool breeze at that.
I do want to go back as well to your childhood again, where there was a part in your memoir
where you talk about the neighbours who actually saved you and your family.
I vividly remember my brother saying, and he would have been like eight, nine at the time,
going, we're leaving, you know, and you're either on board kind of thing or not.
So my mum just grabbed cardigans and a toothbrush for each of us.
And we went next door and we were hiding.
And then my dad came looking for us.
And they loaded us in their car and we were lying down flat in the car
and they drove us out of town to a safe house kind of thing about an hour away.
And my uncle drove through the night to come pick us up.
And honestly, to this day, and I think that's why I've always had a good connection
with my neighbours, because you don't know when you're going to have to sneak out
11 o'clock at night and go, one of my family members is going nuts with a gun.
Can you please drive us away to a safe house? You don't know.
So when people go, I don't talk to my neighbours.
I go, what a privilege.
What a privilege you have to not have any problems in your life.
Do not think you're going to have to rely on people at some point,
you know, or people who don't ask for help.
There's nothing more frustrating to me when I'm talking to someone
or dealing with someone who has a problem and you go, oh, why don't you ask so and so?
Just phone Greg, he can sort it out for you.
No, it's fine. OK.
So you're just, you know, I don't know, going to be without electricity
because you have no money for the next, what, six years.
Why don't you just phone your electrician friend and ask for help?
But people don't, which is unfortunate, because then those same people will go,
no one asked me for help.
No one phoned me when they needed me.
And I'm like, but you don't rely on other people.
That's this is what makes us human.
We have to rely on each other. That's human.
This is what makes us better than, you know.
But we're not better than dogs.
You know, I was going to say this is what makes us better than dogs.
But even dogs will protect the weak one.
And as you say, because your family had asked this neighbour to help,
they saved your life, didn't they? Yeah, 100 percent.
Honestly, if they did not drive us out that night, we would have been dead.
You know, like my dad said, fire to our house.
He came looking for us with a gun.
He was shooting up and down the street like everyone near what was going on.
It was a small, it was only like five or six houses in this little town
because it's a mining town.
And it was wild, man.
It's like the wild, wild west.
And what was it that you found in your uncle's sock drawer?
A 38 special and a nine mil.
We found some guns and some bullets and stuff.
So my brother and I loaded up those guns
and we went across to the mine dump.
And because I was still little, I was like eight or something.
He would stand behind me and cover my ears.
And then I would shoot at cans that we just put on the horizon,
which is a terrible idea.
There's no there's a reason when you go to a shooting range
that they have the sandbags so the bullets can go in there
because they can travel for quite a distance.
We don't think about stuff like that when you're eight years old.
So we're just shooting at cans and stuff.
And the next minute, these guys come through
and I shot right through his frame on his bike,
like where his legs go down there, a bullet hole.
I nearly shot a man and he was a policeman.
And yeah, we just started running.
And luckily, we were always playing at the mine dump.
So we knew where to run with solid sort of, you know,
and they were chasing us, but they couldn't get us.
And we just put the guns back in the in the sock drawer.
But that was that day could have changed my entire life.
Can you imagine if I killed them, you know, or even just wounded them?
Or even if they just caught us?
You know, I know what could have happened.
But yeah, it was a bit of a shit, actually, as a child.
But, you know, all inquisitive.
Curious. And also in in your memoir,
you say that you were dirt poor growing up, that the dreams were a luxury.
Yeah. In what way?
People with money or grew up with money or even just not
not bags of money, just stability and security, financial security.
Don't understand when you say there's no money.
There's no money, not a dollar.
There's not 50. There's nothing.
So when you grow up like that, like you hear people go,
I want to go one day, I'm going to go to Italy.
I'm going to do it. And I'm like, yeah, that's not the kind of shit
that even crosses your mind when you grow up poor.
You're like, I just need to get through this week.
Like, it's a it's like the 12 step program.
But that's your life.
Like every single day, you just need to get through it.
And that's not to say there's not, you know, great times in there,
but there's no money times in there.
And I mean, I'm lucky I'm financially stable and, you know, I'm doing great.
But now when people go, I'm going to take the kids to Disneyland.
And then I think when I take my kids out for the day,
even if we just go, I take them to the zoo, it's not a thing.
We've got annual passes.
That's not something I ever had in my life.
The only time we ever went to the zoo
was if we went with a school and they sponsored it or with church
and they sponsored it like we didn't go.
That was our Disneyland.
You go to a playground or one of those places with the trampolines
or slides or something for kids.
You're like, this is our Disneyland.
This is our big trip.
So when you're 18, 19 and people go,
I remember going to Europe with my family, I was like nine or 10 years old.
And then we went to Greece when I was 12.
And I'm like, I went to the zoo.
That is my childhood story.
That is my big trip.
When you think poverty, you're thinking we're not going on holiday this year.
When I'm saying poverty, I'm like, there's half an onion in the house
and you've got to feed three kids.
That's that kind of poverty.
Like we're driving somewhere is not an option.
Maybe you don't have a car like we didn't have a car till I went to high school.
You know, when we went to boarding school, my mom got a car.
But otherwise, we walked.
We had to walk to the supermarket.
It was five kilometers there, five kilometers back.
And we had to carry all that shit.
We didn't have a trolley. We had nothing.
We would line up sticks so we can pack the bags on there and walk with it.
But it's not like we were super strong because we couldn't afford a lot of shit anyway.
So when when I say when you grow up so poor
that you can't even afford to dream about stuff, that's what I mean.
What, though, I think listening to you talk in that way is phenomenal, though,
is that you did dream, though you worked incredibly hard
and you made your way to Texas to be an au pair by selling.
What was it? Fudge door to door. Fudge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had a sign on my fudge book that says, buy, buy my fudge
and help me get out of the shithole or something like that.
Like real aggressive, aggressive guerrilla marketing.
And I would go, I worked as a in a bar.
I worked at O'Hagan's in the bar for like nine years on and off.
And then I worked as a typesetter.
I did an apprenticeship and then worked for the newspaper.
And neither one of those big, big income earners.
But, you know, they got me through.
And then I thought, no, I want to go overseas and go check what it's about.
And so I bought enough ingredients for one batch of fudge.
So I would make the fudge and then sell it and then buy enough for two batches of fudge.
And eventually I made enough money.
It took me like a year, but I made enough money and I went overseas.
And I remember I landed in Texas and I had one hundred and forty five dollars.
So I got my first check like two weeks later.
So it was pretty tight, but it was a lot of fun.
And then you landed to look after a military family.
Yeah, both of them were colonels in the army.
And we were based in in San Antonio at Fort Samuelson.
And they had a little boy, a four year old little boy, Wyatt,
who have now grown up to be a Trump supporter.
What? He's grown up to be a Trump supporter?
Well, to be fair, his parents were also Republican.
But back in the day, Republican wasn't Trump.
It didn't look as bad as it is now.
So now they still Republican and they still support.
But now it just looks terrible when they've got the Trump stickers.
You're like, oh, and I looked after that little boy.
Obviously, my super left agenda didn't rub off.
But what I'm wondering, though, is what gave you those dreams?
Because obviously you worked incredibly hard.
You said, you know, you were a type setter.
You work long, long hours. You work long hours in the bar.
You envisage, though, a bigger life for yourself.
Where did that come from?
I knew when I was little that I didn't want to be poor.
I didn't want that.
I thought even if I have to work five jobs, I'd rather work five jobs.
I don't want to be poor.
I just there are two things I just never developed a taste for.
Crying for no reason and poverty.
I'm like, oh, that's not for me.
I'm not going to do either one of those two things willy nilly.
See, there you go again. You're so good.
You see, you're finding the laughter, the humor in something
that a lot of people would be crying about and saying, oh, woe is me.
This is really hard.
No, I honestly, and even now, I said to someone today,
I would rather go shovel shit on the equator than be stuck
or be struggling.
I will not struggle. I refuse to.
But I got to that point and I was like, there is nothing that is below me.
I will do any job.
And sometimes, you know, like I used to work at the drag races
on Sundays in South Africa.
So it's dusty. It's an old a strip.
I used to everywhere where there's moisture.
So your mouth, your nose, your ears.
Everything was just around your eyes, just a crusty mud pit.
It was just, yeah.
And it said red, red dirt that were just going everywhere.
And I worked the whole day, 12 hours for 300 Rand, which is 30 dollars.
In my mind, I didn't go, this is not enough money for this.
And to be clear, it is not enough money for 12 hours of work.
But in my head, I thought it's 300 Rand cash.
And that is my electricity bill.
So I'm just going to work just to.
So this is one day.
We'll cover the electricity next Sunday.
That 300 Rand will go towards buying me.
So I had everything sort of compartmentalized and go, I'm tired,
but I'm going to go to bed tomorrow. I'll feel better.
That's sort of like I would start every day as a clean slate,
even though I'm knackered and I'm sick of this shit.
Tomorrow is going to be a new day and I'll feel better.
But I will still have the money.
And I will feel worse if I didn't have the money,
because if I don't have the money, now I'm stressing about it.
And the last thing that makes money is stress about money.
Even now, as a comic, sometimes I do a job and I'm like,
I'm busy getting screwed over here.
I know it. They know it.
But at the end of the day, this will pay the rent for a week
or this will pay my car or whatever, you know.
And it'll come back to them, not to me.
What was it, though, that made you decide,
I want to leave South Africa, I'm going to go to New Zealand?
There was just like a whole line up of stuff, you know, like
it's almost like I was being worn down
by outside factors.
So we had an armed robbery at work.
I had a home invasion and I had a smash and grab
is when they smash your car window while you're sitting at the lights
and they grab stuff out of your car.
And because I think I'm so good at compartmentalizing things, I'm like,
that's just like, I'm fine.
Nothing happened to me physically.
I'm alive. I didn't get shot.
You know, all of those things at the end of the day, clean slate.
I'm going to go to bed. I'll feel better tomorrow.
All of them I could process through and I could, you know,
almost understand why it happened.
Like it's insane, but that's kind of how I, you know, processed it.
I understand why it happened. Like unemployment is so high.
But then I was saying to my mum one day, you know, there's a lot of shit
happening in the world, you know, a lot of stuff happening in South Africa.
And she goes, yeah, I mean, to you too, you had the home invasion,
you had the armed robbery.
And then I said, oh, yeah.
So it was it was impacting my life.
It was happening to me, too.
But I had sort of distanced myself from it because I didn't die.
And then I thought, I don't want to live here anymore.
I don't want to raise kids in this environment.
And then I because I don't believe in missing opportunities,
I saw an ad that said, do you want to emigrate?
Why not New Zealand?
And then I just went to the info evening and I thought, yep, that's me.
And then three months after I went there and I saw the ad,
I was on a plane to New Zealand.
And the rest is history, as they say.
Yeah. I mean, I didn't.
I just said failure is not an option.
I had sold my house.
I sold everything I owned and I just had to work.
And you worked hard. You worked in advertising.
And then one of your workmates, he dared you to do an open mic night.
No, he didn't dare me. He peer pressured me.
Oh, so you couldn't back out.
So his name is Leon, Leon Fisk.
And there's been other people who have tried to claim
they were the person that got me into comedy.
And they were not the people. Leon was a guy.
He sat right across from me.
He was a photo retoucher.
I was working as a photo retoucher and a designer.
And he used to go, you're so funny.
You have to go do stand-up comedy as an English guy.
And he used to, when he lived in London, go to stand-up comedy shows all the time.
And I said, no, thanks. I'm not interested in that shit.
In my mind, I said to him, I go, mate, I'm already nailing live.
I don't need to get into anything else.
Anyway, so he kept pushing, kept pushing.
And then I got headhunted to go over to a different agency.
And when I left, Leon was in charge of the gift, right?
Because he was my work husband.
So he got me one of those Italian coffee pottings and two cups
and this fake contract to go to an open mic night at The Classic,
which is the dedicated comedy club, the only dedicated comedy club in New Zealand.
So it's like, fine.
I signed the contract because I didn't want to look like a dickhead.
So I went and I did it.
He'd already booked seats for 70 people to come to the show.
Seventy? Seventy.
So this was all prearranged with everyone.
He's like, this is what I'm going to get.
So as he was collecting money for this little coffee thing and the cups,
he goes, and I'm going to get her to do that.
Do you want to come? So 70 of them signed up.
And then I went and I did the show.
And, you know, I wrote four minutes.
I stayed in my car after all my life.
I just sat in there and I wrote the material and I just kept memorizing,
you know, and then went out, did the show.
And then I had a few beers afterwards.
Then the next day I got a call from the owner and he's like,
oh, you're through to the next round of Raw Quest,
which I didn't know what that was, was like, you know, a competition
they run every year to try and find new talent or whatever.
And I said, oh, no, thanks.
I'm not interested in comedy.
I've got this great gig in advertising and I'm very happy.
Thank you. Pass that on to someone who's interested in comedy.
I've kind of ticked it off the bucket list.
And he goes, you're very funny.
I said, no, he goes, everyone was laughing.
I said, mate, everyone was laughing because I knew everyone in that room, basically.
And then he goes, oh, I was in the room.
I was laughing. I don't know you.
And then I thought, because I don't believe in missing opportunities.
So then I said, OK, I'm not going to go back.
I won't even tell Leon.
And I went back alone and I wrote new five minutes
because I thought that's how it works.
Every time we go back, you have to write new material.
So I wrote new five minutes, went back, did it again.
And it wasn't as good as the first time.
It was so good. But it didn't matter because I was hooked.
I was I just loved it. I loved that adrenaline rush.
I loved everything about it.
And then, yeah, I just kept going.
I won best newcomer that year.
And it just kind of took off. It snowballed.
But to tell me what it's like, though, to be on stage
and to be making people laugh.
What is that feeling like?
It's absolutely magical.
I mean, I because I suffer from stage fright.
So I find it frightening like standing
side of stage on Petrified, which is a normal response
because you're going out to talk in front of people
you don't know about a topic that they don't know
what's going to come out of your mouth.
And nine out of ten times neither do I.
So, yeah, I used to get so nauseous before.
Like the only thing that would repeat in my head is
don't puke on the audience, don't puke on the audience.
That's all I could think of.
So that I no longer think that now I can just, you know,
riff a bit, but I still get that
that that quick nausea in my, you know, the pit of my stomach.
Well, I'm like, oh, my God.
But once I'm out and I get the first laugh, then I'm then I'm solid.
But it's just amazing when that is the longest walk from side to stage
when they introduce your name or you introduce your own name.
Nine out of ten times you introduce yourself.
You walk from the safety and the darkness of the curtains to the microphone.
And the microphones in the light, that walk is the longest walk.
And I can hear my own heartbeat and I can hear the blood in my
through my brain like I literally go.
And I think they can hear it when I've got the microphone.
They're going to hear it.
But then I do the same thing every time I take the mic off the mic stand
and I take the mic stand on my left hand and I put it to the
behind me on the left and I say hello and I'm saying hello as I'm turning.
And then they usually greet me back and then we're on.
Then, you know, now I'm just chatting to a mate.
But then when it's like it's like a dance, it's give and take.
You make a joke, they laugh and it hits you.
And then that energy then comes back and you give it back to them.
And then they they take the energy and they give it back.
So it's it's back and forth, back and forth the whole time.
It's it's amazing.
You get such a adrenaline rush, you know, like when you walk a stage.
So whenever I talk to people now, like people in the mall say to me,
I've always wanted to try comedy, but it's too late or whatever.
And I'm like, as long as you're still sucking in air,
if you're taking on board oxygen, you have time.
You have time to change the direction.
Like I remember years ago, I used to watch Oprah every afternoon after school.
I would get in, I would jog the last 500 meters to my house
just to get in to watch Oprah.
And there was a lady, her and her husband had five kids, I think.
And then they had all left the house and she was a stay at home mom.
And then her husband retired and he died within a month of retiring.
So she was like 61 years old and she always wanted to be a doctor.
And then all of a sudden, she was a widow and an empty nester.
Boom, in a week, you know, so she enrolled at university.
And when she was 70, she became a registered doctor
and she started practicing as a doctor.
And I thought, if she can do it, I can do it.
Anyone can do it. Like, honestly, if you can change the direction of your life,
like a handbrake turn and fast and furious.
Why wouldn't you? Exactly.
And that's what we all need to be doing.
Being brave and taking that risk,
because you have this fabulous saying about regret as well.
And I think that's a really good way to think about leading your life.
Yeah, yeah, because there's no greater waste of time than regret.
There just isn't. What are you going to change?
Nothing, nothing.
So, you know, balls to the wall, just go for it.
I think 90 percent of most, you know, like people,
the thing that holds people back is embarrassment.
They don't want to make a dick of themselves.
And then the second bit that I think is also people going,
it's like, I can't afford it.
You can't afford. Yeah, you can.
It's amazing. Like, you see people who have lost everything,
be it a house fire or, you know, medical or whatever.
The changes that they get rid of your shit,
move into a studio flat that you can afford, start over.
You talk to any immigrant, they come over with a bag.
That's it. It's just stuff.
You can get a new lounge suite.
You can get, you know, just why would you be miserable?
It does my head in when people complain about their jobs or about their.
I'm like, the only person who can change your situation is you.
And you are living proof of that.
You've done so much to do that.
Now, I want to talk to you about love.
Yeah. And what that means to you,
because you're now married, but you weren't so keen on getting married.
No, no, it wasn't. Why?
I don't understand why people want to get married.
Number one, I don't.
What about the frock? I like the frock.
Yeah, I mean, I chose the morning of my wedding when I'm going to wear, you know,
I wore a black dress.
I think people would wait too much.
And like, you're paying for a party, not just a good party.
If it was a good party, I could still get behind it.
But it's a stiff party with people you don't really hang out with ever.
You're having family members there that you haven't seen in years
and your partner hasn't seen in years, and that has nothing to do with your life.
And now they're coming and sitting there in uncomfortable clothing
or, you know, it's usually too hot.
You know, you're in a room where you wouldn't normally be.
And, you know, like everything is a weird, it's weird.
It's a weird concept to go, listen, we're going to celebrate our love
by doing something that's not comfortable for me or you or anyone attending.
We're going to be in clothing
we wouldn't normally be in on a Saturday afternoon in this heat.
We're going to eat and drink stuff that's a little over the top.
You know, really, all we all want is a barbecue and a beer.
But we're not doing that.
We're doing a four course meal that's costing us fifty five dollars a head.
You know, and then we have to pay for everyone's booze.
But you had a good cake topper, though, on your cake.
Yeah, great cake topper.
I didn't want the plastic, you know, two little brides, you know,
because when marriage equality comes through, I always say
I went to a few gay weddings where you looked at their cake and you're like,
your cake maker wasn't that into it.
I don't think she voted yes.
That cake is aggressively assembled.
It's all fine and well to say, well, all marriage equality is through.
Everyone voted yes, celebrate, book the venue, get the cake.
But those same old bigoted ladies who made the cakes before,
they're still the ones making the cakes that now has to make a cake for you.
So I've seen some aggressive cake toppers.
So I went to a lady that, you know, like you just give them photos and go,
these are our interests.
And then she makes the cake toppers to suit you and your cake.
And but you might really they really heavy like she was very good.
Mine had back fat on it and everything.
And it was so heavy.
It started to sink into the cake.
And of course, it was November.
So it's hot, you know.
So the icing, everything sort of getting soft.
And that fatty at the top kept sinking through to the middle tier.
I was I'm put deep in a lemon cake.
But even though you say who wants to get married,
but your partner, Julie, wanted to get married.
That was why you decided to.
Yeah, yeah, because it's not, you know, just a one way scenario.
Like you've got to take into consideration what the other person wants.
So, yeah, got married.
You know, if it's important to her, then we'll do it.
Perfect. And you've got two beautiful kids.
Yeah, yeah. They're eight and five already.
And and it's busy.
I know with kids, I mean, my daughters are now teenagers.
And that's a different type of busy.
But when they're that age, it is full on.
Yeah, because it's like like with my my five year old boy.
He's just nonstop.
I was like, come play Army with me, play Army.
I've crawled all through this yard.
I've been in everything.
And because kids don't like limit, isn't a thing for them.
If they can do it, you should be able to do it.
And even like, you know, he'll go climb in the tree.
OK, let's that thing one hold up a post box.
I don't think I should be in it.
But also, like, he'll have, you know, those little prams
that you get for the dollies.
And it's like five dollars from Kmart.
He'll go, get in, I'll push him.
I love your enthusiasm.
Well, enthusiasm, I think, is absolutely essential.
How would you describe your style of being a mum?
Do you throw slippers like your grandmother used to do?
No, I think I'm I'm pretty chilled out as a mum.
I play with them, but I'm strict, too.
Like, I'm I'm the one that administers the timeouts.
But I'm more about talking to them and seeing why we are where we are.
I just think my approach is sort of I'm not forcing.
We teach our kids your body, your rules,
but then we also want to force them to do stuff like that.
Or you have to eat that.
It's like, no, you've got to come up with something more innovative.
You know, like my kids don't want to eat vegetables.
You know what? Kids don't want to eat vegetables.
They think it sucks.
I remember thinking it sucked when I was a kid, you know.
But then you go, all right, how can I get the vegetables in them
without forcing them?
Because how can I say to them, it's your body, your rules.
But you better do this with your body because I'm telling you to do it.
Like that goes against what it's like.
Don't talk to strangers because sit on Santa's lap.
You know, like it doesn't make any sense.
So, you know, I guess I'm tricking them to like,
oh, you don't want to eat vegetables.
No worries, because they're both like a mince and cheese pie.
So then I'll make pie.
But I just hand off my hand blender is the best thing I've got in the kitchen.
I put all of the vegetables is like 12 different vegetables in there.
Stick blender that thing so they can't see it.
Put a bit of cheese on top and some pastry.
Boom, veggies in, you know.
So, you know, I think like and I'll get messy with them.
I don't I don't mind mess.
I don't mind, you know, if they go, can we go play in the rain?
Yeah, go, you know, whatever.
I put some shampoo on their hair and then chase them with a hosepipe outside.
Now, just in finishing, what would you say
is the biggest, most important thing you've done in your life or with your life?
I would say, I mean, obviously kids, you have to say kids.
But then if I didn't move to New Zealand, I wouldn't have gotten to that point
because I don't think I would have had kids in South Africa.
I would say to just being brave
and following new directions, you know, and just, I mean,
even even with the kids, if I didn't go, this is we're going to do this.
How how do I do it?
You know, and then just knuckling down and and doing it.
You know that that also just it's not a fright to make a dick of myself.
And I love that you've made a dick of yourself because you make us laugh.
You make us feel human.
You make us feel understood and heard.
And you're just sensational. Thank you.
Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me on your potty.
Oh, it's so good to have you on it.
I just think you're the best.
Thank you. No worries.
What a woman and what a story.
And I just adore that message of hers that it is never too late
to have a go to change directions, that we only get one shot at this.
So let's live life large and big.
And if you want to hear more from Ursula, she's announced
that she's returning to Australia with her brand new show.
It's personal to grab some tickets to find out about the tour.
Visit Ursula Carlson dot com or live nation dot com dot au.
For more beautiful, big conversations like this,
search the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show podcast.
And while you're there, why don't you follow, add to your favourites?
Because I want to make sure that you are never, ever going to miss
a wonderful episode of my podcast.
The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me, Jess Rowe,
executive producer Nick McClure, audio producer Nikki Sitch,
supervising producer Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live life big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious
to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.