I always try to learn from every situation and sometimes you have to like look in the
eyes your fear and go like why do I worry about this or why is this consuming me so much
and I feel like when you actually really look at your fears you often do find the reason why
then I think when you start really working on what those core issues are within yourself
then you can really start becoming more empowered. Hi I'm Jess Rowe and this is the Jess Rowe Big
Talk Show a podcast that skips the small talk and goes big and deep with our most loved
personalities from love to loss and everything in between. I want to show you a different side of
people who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things that
matter. I don't know about you but in this time of social isolation I really crave connected
conversations so I'm going to dig deep to give you a new window into the souls of the people
we all love and admire. I always cry and have a laugh so you can expect some tears and laughter
as we celebrate the real life flaws and vulnerabilities that make us human. In this episode
I speak with Olympic swimming champion Stephanie Rice. Stephanie won three gold medals at the
Beijing Games and was recently inducted into the Sport Australia Hall of Fame. She's driven,
compassionate, funny and doesn't suffer fools. All qualities that drew me to her when we first met
and I wanted to know what it's like being the best in the world at something when you're only
20 years old. How do you come to terms with that and work out if the best is yet to come?
Okay beautiful Steph Rice I've got to disclose from the start that we are good friends and we
first met working on the real dirty dancing because our room was next door to each other's
and I remember I would hear this panting coming from your room every morning.
Yeah I was working out let's just like disclose I was doing a physical exercise workout solo in my
room every morning before we started filming at crazy hours. Which I wasn't aware of at the very
start because I would hear I was thinking what is she doing in there and then I did say to you at
breakfast um what is what is going on? A lot of panting because the cabins were a little thin on
the walls. And of course as you said you were getting yourself ready because you'd set some
crazy sort of workout thing on YouTube. Yeah I like to work out in the morning I mean I'm trying
to change it up because I think mentally it's you get locked into certain patterns and things that
feel good and routines and I think that that's really good when you find a routine that works.
But I like to kind of think of it as like bookending like you open the day with things
that make you feel good and then whatever goes on in the day it doesn't matter you close the day in
the same way. And so I think as an athlete like for me working out is as much mental as it is
physical and it's kind of like my way to prepare for the day. But I feel like everybody has sort
of something some little ritual that they do maybe. Well I have a gallon of coffee but. Well
I also have that. You were so good because you said to me and I still do this in other parts of
my life you said visualize what you've got to do and visualize it doing every bit really well.
Well there's so many um scientific studies on the power of the mind and visualizing and
essentially you go through the same neuro patterns when you close your eyes in like daydream or
visualize something happening as you do when you physically do it. I do it for speaking events that
make me nervous and I think any scenario which is unusual so you haven't really done it before
and lots of things could go wrong and it could also be embarrassing all those kind of things
make you more nervous and more anxious. So I try to prepare and when you can't physically prepare
for it you can mentally prepare by visualizing the scenario visualizing how you want to feel
how you want to look um how you want to speak all those types of things just help you feel more
comfortable when you actually do your performance. I'm glad it helped you. Oh it is such a good tip
and it made me think too did you do that with your swimming? Yeah every night before the Beijing
Olympics I had this quote on my ceiling so when I lay in my bed I could see the quote and
it's a quote that has like stuck true to me it's by Napoleon Hill whatever the mind can conceive
and believe it can achieve. So for me that's very much around like I think we can talk ourselves in
and out of absolutely everything and so I always try to be glass half full versus glass half empty
which I know you are as well and I think in every scenario you can imagine like things going wrong
and so it's like I already know that so I try to like use conscious effort to think of the things
that could go well or how I could do how I could do a good in this scenario and it's much harder.
I think it's the easy route to go down the negative pathway so it takes a little bit more work and I
do visualize like so when I was preparing for Beijing I would like kind of lie in bed and just
think about what it would feel like walking out onto the pool deck the crowd the energy how I
wanted to feel. I never really visualized the race itself like because to me those were so many
unpredictable scenarios like I could I didn't have control over that aspect and so visualizing the
race almost made me more stressed and so I always knew that it was important to enjoy the visualizing
versus like making me more nervous and so yeah when I saw the studies and like heard Serena Williams
did it before all of her matches and like I knew Michael Phelps did it I was like oh I was onto
something back there. You were and I was looking at your races again and I am so nervous watching you
and I know what happens. I know I still like I don't get that nervous watching it now
but I remember the feeling that I had when I was doing it and I do not miss that at all.
So what was that feeling? Nervousness is this really really fine line between being excited
and being really anxious and in those scenarios that are high pressure or mean a lot to you,
you can kind of teeter both ways like and I always did my best races when I was more excited than
more anxious but in Beijing I just never felt that nervous ever before and so I was then nervous
about how nervous I was feeling because this is like foreign and maybe this is wrong and maybe
I won't do well and like it just brings up all the what-ifs and so I just don't miss that feeling of
like ultimate pressure and that everything you have worked on and worked hard for
really comes down to like one moment run race one time and that's just like so much pressure to put
on any one person and I always put the most pressure on myself because I think at the end
of the day I would have been the most disappointed if I didn't do well. Everyone else would get over
it but I probably wouldn't so I just I don't know I don't miss that at all I think it's why
I've like so happily stepped away from swimming because I don't want to experience that again
like it's as much joy as it is real like hard times. Because even hearing you talk about that
I have massive butterflies in my stomach and my hands are sweaty and I didn't live through and I
didn't do it. How though did you manage to push through those nerves because you know you won
three Olympic gold medals at those Beijing Games. How did you push through that to then absolutely
nail it each time? Well I think that momentum plays a big part so I had broke the world record
at the trials the Olympic trials two or three months before the game so I was already riding
on this positive momentum that I was doing well and that things were working and so I sort of
used that confidence in a confidence more than anything and I think the first day like I race
on day one of the Olympics so I was never allowed to go to the opening ceremony or do any of that
stuff because we race like the following morning and the first race for me at the Olympics is the
hardest race like the 400 medley so it's kind of like starting out with the worst case scenario
which in a lot of ways was also good because you just got the shit one out of the way and then you
could focus on having a bit more fun and so I think like for me I like and every athlete will
have this so as much as it's TMI everyone will relate but I get nervous too much information
so on the day of my race I literally went to the toilet eight times
and I raced at 10 a.m. And did you have your suit on like did you have to get in and out?
This is all part of the planning is like do I need to go before I get the suit on because once the
suit is on you're not you're not screwing around with taking it off it takes like 20 minutes to get
on but it's kind of like I think the ultimate way to describe it is like that's just a reaction in
your body to how much nervousness is kind of going on and it's like that fight or flight but I was
just like my body was preparing to like run from some ultimate tiger and I was like losing four
kilos on race day that happened to me every big competition and I think it's kind of like getting
I think about racing well and handling that situation is my coach would always say it's
getting familiar with the unfamiliar feeling so like being comfortable with feeling uncomfortable
which is like counterintuitive but it's I think a lot of people get stuck in their comfort zone
and it feels comfy and it's I know what to do when I'm in this space but when I'm not in that space
you can freak out and so it's kind of like just getting used to being outside your comfort zone
and we prepare for that like you don't just throw somebody in the Olympics if they haven't
sort of prepared and had pre-test runs at other competitions to get used to what that would be
like but the Olympics is just putting everything on steroids I do love I mean I laugh I love that
you say that you do a nervous poo because I know we've chatted about eight a lot of them not just
one I love it because I mean mine does not compare to yours in the sense of I was in a pantomime
and I was a queen and I had to do nervous poos before I went on stage for the pantomime that's
nothing like though yeah swimming in an Olympic race no but it's all relative yes it's all relative
like my Olympics is somebody else's big board meeting or on stage event or you know speaking
event I mean I still get nervous for little like little things like that for me compared to the
Olympics they still make me super nervous so yeah isn't that funny and what what about with the
crowds do you when you were swimming do you hear the crowd screaming and egging you on or are you
in your own zone well you can hear it but your head is under the water for the most part so it's
kind of like an echo of cheer you can definitely hear muffled cheering you wouldn't know who it's
directed at just it's just cheering and noise and I think for the most part it's just energy
like you kind of feed off the energy that's within the stadium and the cheering and the
yeah excitement of what's going on yeah I just really felt for the swimmers in Tokyo not having
the crowd to help lift their energy and some athletes perform well with that because it adds
another level of pressure so some people perform better without that pressure but I would have
performed worse I think it's really hard for some people to like lift to a new level when you don't
have other people around you helping that happen because I loved looking at the the vision of the
of you winning and people up in the stands cheering and waving and oh it was amazing
I remember when I touched the wall in like basically both of my individual races when I
won and I had no idea where my family was sitting so I was like where are you
yeah but I couldn't find them at all there were only two like only three people that I wanted to
be able to find and like wave at but I ended up waving at everybody but them probably just seeing
that and the this massive open mouth smile on your face that I mean was it kind of relief was it
euphoria what was it that I think it's all those things that happen all at the same time so
I think the biggest feeling is obviously pride so this feeling of like all that training and all
that hard work was worth it and it paid off then there's definitely the aspect of like achieving
a childhood dream that happens for you very clearly like you either do it or you don't
whereas that like the black and whiteness of sport is pretty um like it's just very obvious if you've
achieved something or not so for me it was also this feeling of like I always wanted this and I
can't believe I did it but then there's a huge aspect of relief like thank god it all came
together and I won because there's no second chance to have another go so it's definitely
all those feelings that all kind of come to life all at the same time what is it like to swim fast
what is that feeling like oh that's a good question um it's very empowering like that's the thing that
I don't have anymore like I can still get in the water without having swum for a year my technique
is still really good I can still look good in the water and I'm still fast relative to the other
people in the local pool but you lose that top end speed like that really fast reaction
feel good when you swim fast it feels like you're in flow it's the easiest way to describe it it's
kind of like that feeling when you know when you're driving and you're not you're just kind
of in your own mind and then you get to the place and you're like oh I'm here I didn't really
like I wasn't feeling like I was paying a lot of attention because it's like autopilot that's the
feeling when you're like really fit and really ready it just feels easy it doesn't feel forced
and that's a really really hard place to to get to because naturally when you want to do well you
force you try hard you know so it's like counterintuitive to relax into it so would
you say then because I think that's fascinating that then when you would dive in and then do you
have to almost let go in a way and not think I've got to go really fast it's why you'll hear a lot
of athletes say I it felt like an outer body experience because it feels like you were there
and you know you were present but you also felt like maybe it was like a moment of grace or
alignment where things just go right and it flows and it's easy and it's definitely about letting
go and in swimming it's really easy to go like super fast down the first lap because you're
excited and you've got all this energy and like oh my god here it is and it's really easy to get
ahead of yourself so if you're swimming like a 200 meter race that's four laps it's really easy
to kind of be ahead of yourself and what a lot of the stuff you learn through race like racing
practices like just being in the moment like be in this lap at this point in time and just stay
with where you actually are that's so hard to teach somebody that flow it's called flow but
it's so hard to teach because it's a feeling it's not like a certain steps that you do to achieve
something it's like the feeling of flow what I want to chat about now is yeah the time leading
up to the London Games because that was a different kind of time wasn't it for you where you had what
was it three shoulder reconstructions yeah I'd had um I'd had one um I had torn the tendon in
my shoulder in like a year after Beijing so I had basically just got that back together like I was
training well and I'd recovered from the loss of that for surgery and then sort of six months
before the Olympics I tore the tendon in my shoulder again and at that point it was just
too close to the Olympic trials where you have to go to be selected um it was too close to have
like any kind of surgery to repair my shoulder so I sort of had the choice of which was no choice
to me of like stopping um and having the surgery or just pushing through with the torn tendon so
obviously I was not going to miss the Olympics um so I trained for like eight months on a torn
tendon in my shoulder so basically the further or the closer we got to the Olympics like the worse
I got so it was just like running out of time like I just was like I couldn't wait for the
Olympics to be finished because I just was so unprepared um and that's an awful feeling to
have when you go into anything that means a lot to you to feel like you haven't ticked all the
boxes because you know other people especially in a competitive environment that you're up against
have so you already know you're going in like worse off than everybody else and I had food
poisoning a week before the Games and like it was just felt like into the lead-up to Beijing
it felt like the universe was aligning everything in my favor like not like I could do no wrong
because stuff went wrong but um I just felt like I was protected if that makes sense like the path
was made easy for me and then in London it was like oh something else might go wrong like oh
we just screwed that up for you as well I was and it felt like I was just constantly battling with
trying to just get through and trying to remain um like calm but also confident like amongst so
much adversity and I feel like everybody has a breaking point where you're kind of like
I think if something else goes wrong I'll lose it and so that happened quite a few times my
poor coach I feel like he aged a lot that year um and it was it was just a shit way to prepare for
the Olympics especially because I didn't want to tell like anybody what I was going through from
a public standpoint because then it just amplifies everything else and they start asking you about it
and I don't want to be one of those people that has every excuse under the sun why things go wrong
so I just sort of kept it to myself and kept downplaying how I would go and yeah disappointing but
oh well but I think that what you did takes incredible mental courage and you know the
easy way out could have been well I'm not going to do it but you kept going and often I think
I know for me I learn in life it's not about where you come it's actually how you get through it
yeah yeah and so I think you're very courageous Steph oh yeah like I I'm so proud of um just
dealing with the adversity like I'm not it's kind of one of those weird feelings where it's like I'm
still proud of the performance and I but I'm more proud of myself for getting through it and dealing
with it or learning ways to like stay positive amongst everything going wrong um I think I'm
just more disappointed you know how you have those moments where you're like not what if because
I did everything possible I don't have a regret but like more for me is a feeling of like higher
consciousness thoughts of like why was that the path like why did I have to deal with all of that
stuff at that year like why wasn't it the year before when it didn't really matter or the year
after like I think I ask those big questions because those for me are how you actually learn
from that scenario and apply it to other aspects of life because I wasn't going to keep swimming
so I was like why did this happen like give me some kind of peace to like understand why that
happened do you know what I mean like I was looking for the hindsight and so when you asked
yourself that question why is this happening or why did it happen for you what was the answer
oh I don't think I've still found it um I think I found aspects of it but I still feel like it's
the it sort of still evades me a little bit like I I'm not entirely sure I'm sure I want to be
able to explain this without sounding really woo woo um but now come on you know I like woo woo
I know that you're not as woo woo as me so um I think that when you
I believe that your body responds to whatever your mind is telling it um and so I think if you
fear something or you have a lot of anxiety that that expresses itself in your body in some shape
or form so like whether it's breakouts or um you know like injuries or stiffness or it's all I think
that you should listen to what your body is telling you because it's saying like
it's it's not like it's done something wrong it's kind of like generally that you've pushed
yourself too far or you're fearful of something and you can like really understand that through
what's going on in your body so I think that I had a lot of fear around not achieving what I did
four years before because in Beijing I was still like a kid like it was just
swimming was still sort of like a hobby if that makes sense like
whereas in London it was a job I had a lot of money a lot of sponsors a lot of responsibility
a lot of people that were now invested in my you know success and not that they were putting
pressure on but I felt a lot more pressure to fulfill other people's um expectations yeah and
to prove like I can do this like I was I'm good kind of thing and so I think that that feeling I
had expressed itself through some of my injuries and my sickness and stuff like that and so
I think that if I learn anything from that time it's more about like I'm very uh intuitive
so I generally know right away something's not right or my body feels a bit awful so I try to
always listen to what my body is telling me now and learn what is this like what's the bigger
thing that's going on here that I need to kind of really work on because what I really found
quite telling when I was looking at the video where you announced your retirement from swimming
you said in that video that you felt like you were losing a part of yourself but you also said
that someone had said to you but what if swimming is a platform to something else
yeah that was really empowering to me because swimming was my life so it wasn't like I had
other stuff going on and so it was my whole world and I then felt like if I stop swimming
I have nothing left and that obviously what I had achieved through gold medals but also like
publicity and accolades and money and all this stuff that I was already at the top of my life
mountain and everything was going to just be downhill and at 24 thinking like I've already
peaked in not just swimming like in life um that was like a really shit feeling like I just was
like well what's the point like not that I was I would have said I was depressed without necessarily
getting tested or checked or whatever but it was kind of like this feeling of just emptiness
and loneliness and like also just lost like I just had no idea what I was going to do
after that because I hadn't ever studied or prepared myself for some career like you know
pathway because I think if you want to be the absolute best at something like and I'm talking
like one microsecond determines first or second which determines like being the person on the
back of the weenie box and not being recognized at all is you can't have your eggs in multiple
baskets like because every time you put some focus on something else you take away focus from that
ultimate goal so I just thought when I was swimming that I just know I have a small
window of opportunity and I just want to put everything I have into it and then when I finish
I'll try other things and do other things but then vice versa like when you finish you have nothing
and so that was really really hard and I also felt like nobody could really understand or relate to
the feelings that I was going through because if you hadn't have achieved what I had achieved you
don't really get it like I just felt like people don't really get it and lots of people were just
like oh you just got a job and I was like in what I have no skills like and I don't see myself
working in an office like nine to five like it's just not who I am and it's not at all because so
now then did you work through it how did you get it was a nightmare I feel like I was trying to
find the checklist that like if somebody could just say like this is step one two three and
like discovering yourself and just go do the things I would have like no problem I can do that
but trying to find what you enjoy is so hard because you really just have to try anything
and everything and I was really I think because I was so low I was so open to try everything like
I was like I don't care what it is I'm not going to prejudge it if it helps me in even the smallest
way it was worthwhile and so I in even just the health space because I had like really bad adrenal
fatigue after I finished swimming I had had glandular fever while I was swimming and then I
had the shoulder injury so I was like really on a mission to repair like my body so I did
kinesiology reiki healing counseling nutrition I just tried absolutely everything I did personal
development workshops and classes I read lots of books listened to lots of audiobooks and
I was just open to try everything in the end I feel like personal development really worked for me
and that was stuff like Tony Robbins seminars lots of books around you know success but also
like how to mentally like think about how to do things and achieve things and I think the thing
I realized too is that when you find something that doesn't work for you that's as much of a
win as finding something that does work for you and so even within career stuff like tv for example
I have always enjoyed media but I didn't really know like where I fit in that big vast array of
media and so I tried a bit of everything like I tried being an interviewer I tried like live tv
I tried radio I just I was like I'll just try everything and I would do it for like two days
and I was like no this isn't for me I don't enjoy this and then when I did find something that I
liked I was like let's try and do more of that like that was really enjoyable another thing that
sort of drew me to you when I first met you was I love your bluntness I love the way you face it
but I love that because I'm not like that and I wish I could be a bit more like that but basically
like you're saying no I don't like it I'm just gonna say it I'm gonna move on I don't care
I'm going to and I think that's such a great trait of yours thank you I I think I've learned
to try to do it more professionally than I used to I think sport teaches you to be blunt because
it is a black and white environment so I'm also used to receiving blunt feedback like that was
really bad session today you're like oh okay um because sugar coating doesn't help anybody like
when you're doing feedback I'm blunt because I don't like to I don't like to lead people on
because I've been led on a number of times before in relationships or in work scenarios and I don't
like the way that makes me feel so I don't like to give people false hope or tell people I like
something when I don't really like something because it doesn't help me in any way and it
doesn't really help them which is it I mean it makes such good sense I do just want to briefly
talk about India because that's a place that's very close to your heart I mean travel you have
such I think wanderlust you love seeing the world I love travel and India's a place where you now
have worked so much and you love it there I know but it's so hard now with COVID because
I had been working there for like five years around TV and sport and swimming clinics and then I was
setting up my academy there with the Indian and Australian government and then obviously COVID hit
and so I can't go for one and I can't really do anything remotely so it just feels like
kind of like one of those turning points you know where you're like I feel like the door is getting
shut on this project or opportunity and maybe I'm meant to be steered in a different direction
so I don't know I'm sort of just allowing that to unfold in whatever way it will unfold
and I think for all of us that's sort of what we need to do now more than ever is just to let things
unfold and almost let things be and it's hard though it's hard when you're used to making
things happen and developing things and on the go and it's just to sort of sit in it and with it
yeah and I think it brings yeah I think it brings up a lot of uncomfortableness for a lot of people
in different areas and different reasons why and I think like that's I guess to come back to that
sort of lessons around like leading into the London Olympics when things go wrong that's sort of
for me I always try to learn from every situation and sometimes you have to like
look in the eyes your fear and go like why do I like worry about this or why is this you know
consuming me so much and I feel like when you actually really look at your fears like and really
kind of put work into looking at it because often we're just like yeah like push that off to the
side sort of thing when you really look at it you often do find like the reason why like it's
stemming from something else and I think when you start really working on what those core issues
are within yourself then you can really start becoming more empowered and being comfortable
with being in you know different scenarios and I that's what I've been trying to do anywhere over
the past year and a half I just I love talking to you so much because it brings back to me also
to just so many happy personal memories of when we first met and for me doing that show that the
absolute silver lining was meeting you and that you you have to be open though to situations
of of meeting people of putting yourself out there and finding these unexpected wonders and
and so for me that's that's what's so special and oh that's so lovely I felt the same way
I was like especially because we're in the middle of nowhere in Virginia like it was really isolating
and I was just so glad that I had like a friend through all of that because it was just really
hard it was really testing and lonely. Steph what a treat to see you to chat with you and I'm
giving you the biggest hug in the world I can't wait I know I can't wait for a real one it's so
wonderful to talk to you beautiful thank you honey love you so welcome. I reckon you can
tell just how much I love Steph by that conversation that we had we'd still be talking
if our producer let us. Next week I speak to superstar chef Curtis Stone he shares how
tough love in the kitchen shaped him into the chef that he is today. Don't get me wrong I've
made lots of mistakes in my life too you've got to learn from those and you've got to sort
of pick yourself back up when something doesn't go your way and then get on with it.
The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me Jess Rowe audio producer Chris Marsh
executive producer Nick McClure supervising producer Sam Cavanaugh until next time remember
to live big life is just too crazy and glorious to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.