I remember going to the producers and saying, in my normal life, when I see someone being
picked on, I will stand up and say, this is not okay.
And right now, because we were right at the end of the game, I said, I'm just sitting
there, mute, because the game has become more important than my humanity.
And that was the only time I really struggled with it.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe, and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
Pia Miranda is an actor and performer.
You probably first met her in the iconic coming of age film, Looking for Ella Brandy.
She's also used her talents on reality TV, blowing us away on The Masked Singer, Dancing
with the Stars, and of course, winning Australian Survivor.
Pia has recently released her memoir, Finding My Bella Vita, a funny and moving tale of
trying to find yourself.
Now, I've read the book and I absolutely loved it.
There are some fabulous stories in there, from her time on Neighbours to her lucky escape
from Harvey Weinstein.
Pia, it is so good to see you.
What a treat to finally sit down and chat with you after your beautiful memoir that
I just, I inhaled it in a day.
I thought I've got to read this.
I couldn't put it down.
I'm so pleased you said that because a few people have said that they've read it quickly,
which I'm hoping is a great compliment, but I'm glad it's an easy read because I did
really want to write it as a fun, easy read that was not, you know, a punish to get through.
So I'm glad that's the feedback I'm getting.
It's far from that.
It's a beautiful story, but I love there's a lot in there and that's what I want to get
One thing that really struck me, there was a part where you talk about, you tell your
acting students to look in the mirror and to look for the thing that they least like
about themselves and that is what makes them special.
And I found that fascinating and it made me think, well, what is it that you see when
you look in the mirror?
Well, I think I've always said that to my acting students, possibly because of my vitiligo.
So I think that, you know, when I look around, I don't see many actors with vitiligo or alopecia
or certain things like that.
And I think, well, if you do have that, then maybe that's going to be the thing that's
going to get you the job.
But I also think because when I was young and I was starting out as an actress, it was
the 90s and there weren't many Italians or Greeks acting.
And so I did feel a little bit different and possibly that I missed out on some roles.
You know, I did have an agent once.
I asked about going for an audition and she said, there's no point, some pretty little
blonde thing's going to get it.
So there's no point in me sending you for it.
And I went, okay.
But that thing that I felt that was my disadvantage actually became my advantage because with
without being a young Italian actress who didn't feel like she fit in, I would never
have been Josie Alabrandi.
And so that was one of my greatest joys.
And so I know that being in the industry, you feel really much like you're, you should
fit into this very small mold of very perfect looking, beautiful people.
And sure, that's great for those people and the road might be easy, but it's the thing
that makes us quirky and different that's going to really give us those great jobs.
Can you mention looking for Alabrandi, that role of Josie?
And I think for so many people, that's how we think about you.
But do you find that frustrating at times?
I think at times I have found it frustrating just because, you know, I've spoken about
there wasn't really enough financial benefits of losing my identity in public.
So you know, at times it was frustrating because I didn't feel like it was easy for me to go
get a waitressing job to pay my rent.
And I wasn't sure how I was going to make ends meet, but I made a conscious decision
really early to embrace it and be grateful.
And it made that journey a lot easier.
I thought I could see that it would be really easy to go down that path, especially, you
know, when I hadn't worked for a couple of years to be embittered.
I thought just the fact that people come up to you every day and tell you how much what
you did meant to them is a good thing.
So I always have just made that choice to just talk about how proud I am of it and how
happy I am of it.
And also because I love Melina so much that, you know, it doesn't ever feel like my journey.
It feels like our journey.
So I'm respecting her and respecting that.
And of course, you mentioned Melina, who wrote the book that also forms such a part of, I
think, so many people's lives.
My daughter, who's 16, she read the book.
She loves you in the movie.
And I think for you, I mean, to have it's each generation that comes forward, comes
through, sees themselves or can identify with different characters.
And I mean, that is quite something, I think, to be involved with a work of art that then
has such an impact on so many people.
Yeah, it's not just about the migrant experience, although a lot of people from different migrant
backgrounds or families or people who are sort of torn between two worlds, it means
a lot to them, not just Italians.
So it crosses that boundary as well.
But for any young person who isn't in an environment where they are questioning themselves, they
don't feel quite like they fit in and they're frustrated because life hasn't really started,
it speaks to those people as well.
And I'd love to take credit for the story, but I really just said Melina's words.
Oh, but there could be no other Josie.
You mentioned that the migrant experience and you write about your experience growing
up with a beautiful Italian nonna.
And I'd love to have a nonna in my life, share for our listeners what she meant to you and
what she was like.
She was gone too soon, but I'm glad that she lives on in the book.
You know, she had a hard life, but she was so vivacious and filled with so much love.
And I think that I learned to love because of her.
She just showered me with love and part of the way that we bonded was over funny little
things like watching days of our lives together, she would call those of a day, or young and
the wrestle, or cooking together and all of those things.
And she just was a really wonderful person in the sense that she just looked at the world
with love and her past definitely wasn't easy.
What would your nonna make of how you've made your way in the world now and your beautiful
I mean, nonna's sort of go-to is always to be proud unless you had a boyfriend.
She was really annoyed or hung out with boys or anything to do with boys.
But yeah, I think she would just be proud in the sense I think a lot of Sicilians love
a fuss and they love attention.
So I think the fact that I'm bringing so much attention to her, I think would mean
And I sent the book to my dad and my dad got very emotional.
I think just knowing that their history is now there forever.
And their story is so very much a part of your story.
You mentioned they're the lover of drama.
Another thing that I really sort of enjoyed and laughed about in the book is, I mean,
you're very spiritual and you prayed a lot when you were younger and your aunties had
come round and they do all sorts of things with you and your sister, which you kind of
My sister loved reading that.
She sort of had blocked it out.
It was a bit of trauma.
And so she was the first person I sent the book to and she just kept sending me messages
going, oh my God, I'm dying.
Just remembering all this stuff.
I think it was so funny because to her, it was all very terrifying and scary and she
always felt like she was being personally attacked, whereas I just found it amazing
and assumed that, you know, I was some kind of visionary and was going to be ascended
straight to heaven.
So it's really funny, I think, just to sort of show how different personalities dealt
with all that madness.
So share with our listeners what that madness involved.
Oh, it could be anything from, I mean, there was a lot of curse removal.
So, you know, putting a bowl of water above your head and then you would say some prayers
and then you would drop the oil in and if the oil did a certain thing, it meant you
And if there was a strong curse, everyone would scream.
And sometimes you would just have to stand against a wall for a really long time until
they could see your aura, which I'm assuming was just their eyes playing tricks on them.
And if they couldn't see your aura, it was a very big deal.
And then people would cry and, you know, they'd say prayers and do mini exorcisms.
If they could see your aura, it was amazing.
Sometimes they would fall to the ground.
I'd find this very pleasing because my whole sort of existence was based around the fact
that I honestly thought that, you know, there were magical properties around me and that
I just assumed that at one point I would see the Virgin Mary as a vision and to tell me
how to live my life, which, you know, still waiting.
But also what almost ripe pickings for a world of sort of imagination and creativity,
which you sort of created around you, didn't you?
Yeah, definitely.
And I've always, you know, lived a little bit in my own brain and I, you know, I really
enjoyed and probably, I mean, it's a bit embarrassing, but probably still enjoy indulging in fantasy
just a little bit.
And so this is how my brain worked and I'm skewed sort of positively, I guess.
So if people were crying and screaming in front of me, I just assumed it meant that
I was great, which is in hindsight, pretty weird, but I knew they would feed me afterwards.
You know, it was always about getting to the cake, just do whatever they want you to do
and get to the cake.
Well, that was the reward, wasn't it?
Some lovely biscuit or treat.
Yeah, tiramisu or something.
So just standing at some wall and hope for the best.
Go through the exorcism.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm just going to get fed.
So as a little girl, you had this extraordinary imagination and as you say, you would imagine
the Virgin Mary coming to rescue you, all sorts of things.
But also, you were quite anxious.
You talk quite a bit about rituals that you would go through and reading it, it made me
think almost a bit of obsessive compulsive disorder, those sorts of things that you'd
have to do before you'd get into bed or hop out of bed.
I mean, I didn't want to claim it as that because I had never been diagnosed with that.
So I didn't want to sort of say that, but I mean, I think I say some sort of obsessive
compulsive behaviours, but I definitely struggled with those.
And to this day, I still eat in even numbers.
Yeah, I'd like to eat in even numbers.
Like if someone gives me a mint, I'd like to have two just because I don't want the
food to be lonely in my stomach.
But I would have these very serious rituals that would get so long, they get exhausting
and then, you know, I'd have to start again.
And I still, you know, in my adulthood, occasionally would do little things, but I know what they
are. But when I was young, I thought that they were protecting me against sort of demons
and all that kind of thing.
Almost that, I suppose, sense of discipline that you went through, that seemed to serve
you well going into ballet because you were a beautiful ballerina as well.
Yeah, I was a really committed ballet dancer and I loved ballet.
And I've always been quite a person that quite enjoys physical discipline.
I sort of enjoy a bit of pain for pleasure as far as, you know, physical stuff goes.
I love a really strong yoga class and that feeling of buzzing afterwards.
So I think it served me well, that sort of enjoyment of striving to, you know, to sort
of achieve something great physically.
And I absolutely loved it.
I just for the longest, my whole personality until I was in my mid teens was based around
me thinking that I was going to be a ballet dancer.
I never even thought of another career.
But the thing is, you were a ballet dancer and also you'd been told you were the best
ballet dancer in the world for someone of your age.
Yeah, when I was young, I remember my mum, I said, that really happened.
We were all laughing.
So I'm like, I probably got my sister to spread it around.
But someone had come out and said, I was a really great dancer because when I was very
young, I was really talented.
And then as you know, as your body grows, things change.
And so possibly as I got older, I just was, you know, talented, but not absolutely at
the top of my game.
And so I think if I hadn't have given up, I probably would have had a career in dance
a hundred percent.
But yeah, it was a it was a journey in the sense that when I decided to stop dancing,
I had to refine to who I was because dancing was my whole personality.
And when you did dance, how did it make you feel?
It felt like my purpose, which is, you know, really funny when I look at my children now,
because, you know, I was so driven and focused as a child and I enjoy watching them just
sort of rolling around their life and trying things and, you know, enjoying things a little
bit and then not trying something else and me saying, what do you want to be when you
And then going, I don't know.
I really love seeing that, but I also find it a bit foreign because for me, I was I just
kind of feel like I came out of the womb quite driven in that sense of just wanting to strive
to be amazing at something.
And so it was hard for me to admit that I sort of looked at it for a long time as a
It's funny, isn't it, how we interpret failure and you deciding to quit dance, did that have
to do with that ballet teacher who shamed you in front of the class because of your
Look, I think that the issue I had with her was it went on for quite a long time.
So that was sort of probably the end result.
Like it was the last thing that happened.
So it was a straw that broke the camel's back.
But I definitely had, you know, a good 18 months of a very tricky relationship with
this person who manipulated and, you know, mentally confused me.
And I think just that was just one of the things she would do was just to maybe to control
and also to punish if you weren't working hard enough.
I personally do think it was that experience because after that, I just physically found
it hard to lift my leg or lift my arm.
I felt just heavy.
And I guess that's a physical reaction to a mental distress.
But I also don't want to blame that one person for me not achieving my dream because at the
end of the day, it was my choice.
And also because she tapped your bum and basically told the class that you were fat.
I mean, she made me stand up in front of class.
And I mean, there was lots of microaggressions for many years of small instances of things
like digging her nails into you really hard and saying horrible things in your ear.
But I think just on this one day, she was in a bad mood and she put me up in front of
the class and then told everyone to look at me, do these exercises and said, if you
don't work hard, you'll end up with fat legs like Pia.
And then just screamed fat as I did my exercises.
And I just remember for years, I honestly didn't show my legs for years.
I just assumed she was right.
And yeah, it was just not something I think you could get away with now.
And there's a lot of harsh stories from the 80s and 90s in the ballet world, but she was
definitely one of the worst.
And it's that idea, isn't it awful, the power that some people can then have over us that
you said you didn't show your legs for years afterwards because of this awful stuff that
this horrible person had said to you.
I know it's really strange.
And I don't know what it is that makes someone want to punish or make a child unhappy like
I remember just sort of feeling really confused because I knew that I was a really talented
dancer at that point and one of the more talented ones in the class.
When I moved schools, I could tell that I started to not be that great.
And I know that it was just mentally, I just wasn't there.
But I do think that you see it in, I don't know if you've seen Athlete A, have you seen
that documentary?
I think really ambitious and driven children are very vulnerable because they want so badly,
they fall in love with something so much and they want so badly to be so good at something.
And that can make them really vulnerable because they look around to the people in power and
think that person's going to help me.
And that's when someone who doesn't have the right kind of motivations can come in and
I found it was actually that documentary and I wasn't obviously subjected to a lot of the
abuse that a lot of those people had gone through.
But it was that documentary that it really got to me because I just remembered all of
those emotions and all of those feelings and all of those punishments.
But you're someone who, as you say in your beautiful memoir, that you draw on your rolodex
And I suppose, even though that was an awful experience for you, you were able to tap
into that and then into some other moments in your life to then be the beautiful emotional
actor that you are.
What other sorts of things were you able, I suppose, to tap into into that rolodex of
pain that you describe?
You know, it's funny, I think with the ballet thing, I don't tap into that because I think
that's more in the world of embarrassment and shame.
So maybe I would tap into that if I'm thinking about that stuff, which is silly, I know,
because I didn't do anything embarrassing or shameful, but we all have those moments.
But I think personal pain is something that I can tap into.
I think losing people is really something that I've always tapped into.
And just honestly, life is a bit scary.
So if you think about the realities of life, sometimes you can do a role and it's a story
that maybe you haven't gone through, but then I can imagine what if I did go through this
because it could happen, I find it easy to access those emotions.
And you did that very effectively in your audition for Josie.
When you read with Kik, who was a friend of yours anyway, explain what that audition process
was like, because I think for many people, they think, oh, it's glamorous and wonderful.
You walk in, you say a few words and then you get the role.
No, it was awful because there was hundreds of people there and usually I turn up to auditions
and it's a mix of people.
This is a hundred really gorgeous Italian girls.
And I just felt really, I felt like I do in Italy.
When sometimes when I go to Italy, I realise that sort of I joke that I don't like taking
my husband there because he realises he didn't even get one of the good ones.
You know, in Italy, everyone looks like me.
I'm not special at all.
And so I walk into this room and there's just a bunch of wonderful looking young women who
And I think it was hundreds of people and people going for other roles as well.
And then it was a cattle call and cattle calls are so bad.
And, you know, they do them in dance a lot.
And you'll go do something in a group and then you'll sit in a room together and then
they'll come back and they call out your number.
And then the people whose numbers are called out get to go and do another audition, something
little, you know, whether it's a movement piece or say a couple of lines and you go
back into a room together, all staring at each other.
And it's awful because you're really wishing the worst for people, which is very counter
intuitive in life.
But at the end of the day, it was just me left at the end.
And I'm still not sure why or how, but I yeah, I got taken into a room.
It was a huge room.
And then they said where they gave me a piece of a bit of the book.
And then they got kicked to come in and they said, we want you to read these lines out
of the script and then improv the rest.
And we did what I could tell was a beautiful job because when you do a really great job
in scenes, you don't remember them afterwards and that's when you know you've nailed it.
Because didn't you, the one thing you did remember was Kick basically holding you in
his arms and you were sobbing.
Yeah, I was sobbing because it was a story about, you know, losing a friend and I had
lost a friend and I was still angry.
And I remember not angry at him, but just angry at the world.
And Kate said, you know, just talk about what it feels like to lose a friend.
And I don't want to say luckily I'd been through that because if I'd choose between the two,
he would be here.
But I had that experience and so I knew how to express it and when I expressed it, I'm
just sort of one of those people that can tap into the reality of that pain.
I did send his parents the book, so that was nice just to say, you know, he's remembered
I was actually really diligent to message people because I don't want anyone to hate
Anyone who was in the book, I just sent them snippets and I'm like, are you okay with this?
Are you okay with this?
And so I had already asked his parents if they were okay if I wrote about him and then
his sister messaged me the other day and she loved it.
That's so very special.
I want to talk more about that acting process and how, you know, you write about there are
times when you might be not working for eight or nine months and then have intense periods
of work, which is often the life for many actors.
How is it that you manage to keep doing it and not give up or, you know, in those down
moments when you're not working, you could question yourself.
I know I would find it hard to remain motivated and focused.
How do you do it?
It is really hard.
I mean, you know, luckily we have a group of us who are going through the same thing.
So I'm never going through it alone.
If I have a bad audition, I have people to call.
If I'm not working for six months, there's someone else who's not working for six months.
So we have each other and then it's about, because I guess I'm sort of a disciplined
person, it's about sort of being really disciplined with your days and also with your money.
So when you get the money, you have to put it away and you have to spend it.
So I'm really disciplined with my days, you know, yoga is a big part of my day.
I really like, do not let the television go on in the daytime because if you do, you
know, you're going down a, for me, I know that's when I'm going down a path of, you
know, feeling really sad.
So it's just little things like that and then working out other ways to keep busy.
And once you've had kids, it makes all that a lot easier because you have a purpose when
Yes, that is so true.
And we all need a purpose and our purpose changes over time.
Before you had kids, you were in LA, you were auditioning.
Reading about some of those experiences, oh, my goodness, shockers.
I couldn't stand it there.
I was even telling someone the other day, we were talking about auditions and she was
saying how she left an audition and the woman ran out after her and told her that next time
she should try wearing two pairs of Spanx.
She said, wear one pair of Spanx because actually maybe even two.
Well, one time I got an audition for a very big movie star and the audition thing said,
make sure you look sexy for blah, blah, wear something short and something low cut so he
can see your breasts.
That was on the audition like piece of paper.
I don't have like breasts.
What am I going to show?
And I don't want to wear a short, I never wear short skirts.
So it was just a very, yeah, it was gross.
I wonder if it's better now, probably slightly, but I'm sure there's a lot of that still there.
You hope it would be changing.
And even when you wrote about two times when you'd literally get three or four words out
and then some casting person would say, not funny.
And I'm like, I am funny, buddy, actually, funnier than you.
Yeah, it was just, you know, I found it.
I don't find it in Australia, but I found L.A.
so aesthetically obsessed that I just didn't want to be there.
I just didn't want to be a part of it.
It just was really like not cool to me.
And it's not who I wanted to be.
And like hats off to anyone who can survive in that environment, because I just do not
And also at what cost?
I think that's the question, too, isn't it?
Yeah, exactly. You know, I have been told to get my boobs done and to get my lips done
and to do all sorts of things.
And it's like at what cost to have it?
It's just if that's your if that's what you want to do, I think that's great.
But if it's not what you want to do and someone's telling you to do it,
then that's not a good thing.
You also had quite a close brush with Harvey Weinstein.
And you write about Greta Scarchie, who was your mum in Looking for Ella Brandy.
She became your kind of hero, too, in Rome, didn't she?
Yeah. And it was weird because I sent her that excerpt because I wanted her to be happy.
And she really loved it.
But she sort of she remembered the situation, but she didn't really remember being so
she said, I can't remember being so full on about it.
And I was like, I think it might have been a bit more for one, actually.
I might have petered it down for the book.
And she loved it because, you know, I think that she's probably done that more than once
in the sense over her time, because she's a real protector of women.
And even though I was a little bit scared to put it in because I thought it would feel
like I was trying to jump on a bandwagon or, you know, be salacious for the point of being
salacious, but I really wasn't.
It was because I really wanted to tell the story about her looking after me.
And I also I just found it so bizarre that the story is really about his friend.
So tell us about that story.
I met someone in Taumina and then we he worked for the company and we hooked up again in
Rome and we had like a very innocent romance.
It was really nice. It was Italian.
And then, you know, before long, we were having dinners with Harvey.
I was a bit like not really into this.
I didn't want it to go very far.
And so once I sort of, you know, put him in the friend zone, then, you know, Harvey really
And the thing is, they were lovely to me.
They were professional, lovely.
Like Harvey was a lovely professional, which I think is good to remember that I think we
think these people walk in in a black cape and fangs, but they don't.
They come in and they're wonderful and they talk to us like, you know, we're important
and like we matter.
And, you know, I'd had this whole situation and Harvey eventually had tried to get me
on a plane with him alone, which I thought was great.
I've auditioned in hotel rooms and they've been very professional situations.
So it's not something that I would have, you know, thought was weird.
But Greta stopped all of that.
And I think and very, very forcefully.
And what did she do?
She was pretty blunt, wasn't she?
I mean, she forcefully, she pulled my phone at him.
She took my phone off the hook and made the festival people come and get me a car and
sent me to Rome airport to get a flight to Heathrow because she was just like, I'm not
letting you get on that plane with him alone.
And it was just sort of a story in my mind, but I still thought that my friendship with
this other person was a really nice friendship until I'd read an article, a couple of articles
about he was the groomer who then delivered people to Harvey.
And it was a pretty similar story to everyone else.
And I thought that, you know, generally in life, when something kind of bad happens to
you, you know, if someone's, you've got a sleazy boss or if someone's being inappropriate,
you know, you can feel it, can't you?
But I didn't know.
And I didn't know until I read the article.
And when I read the article, I felt sick because I felt like I'd been used.
And it was a really just, it was a big moment for me.
I think also having a daughter and just remembering that how important it is for older
generations to look after younger generations who are innocent and trusting.
So little wonder that Greta is your hero.
What an extraordinary, beautiful woman.
And she is like that, you know, she's very much about, I think it's more, it's not so
much a story about what happened because nothing happened, but it's a story about sisterhood
and it's a story about women looking after women and, you know, understanding that young
people are vulnerable because they're trusting and they're enthusiastic and they see the
And as you get on in your life, you've had a few knocks and you've seen the worst.
And so it's good to remember that it's okay to step in and to be that protective for someone
You're very good at reading people.
And it makes me think about your time on Survivor.
I mean, you're a Survivor, I don't know if aficionado is the right word, but a super fan.
Yes, you're a Survivor nut.
I think I write that big speech and I'm like, I know that by heart, which I do.
You have watched all of the Survivors and so you were very keen or willing to go on
I take my hat off to you because even just thinking about it makes me nervous and makes
me sick to the stomach.
What is it that made you think, yes, I have to do this?
And also going into it, you were like, I'm going to win this.
I wouldn't have played if I didn't think I was going to win.
You know, I think that about people who do, I'm a celebrity because they jump out of planes
and eat things and get bitten by snakes.
I'm like, there's no way I could do that.
So it's, I think it's just, I mean, honestly, I don't like bugs.
I don't like, I'm not really a campy nature person.
You know, I like my hotels and my coffee machines.
So I don't like any of that aspect, but I completely obsessed over that game for years.
I love it so much and I loved, I say this to my husband, it's really weird and sounds
conceited, but from the minute I watched it, I thought this is going to be a part of my
I just didn't know how.
I tried to apply for the American version.
I was obsessed with watching people on it.
And I really thought I would land on that beach and people will want to vote me out
first because I would just think I'm useless or I'll win.
And I landed on the beach and everyone wanted me to vote me out first.
Everyone wanted me out and I saved myself with three minutes to go.
And then, yeah, I won.
Winner of Australian Survivor.
So where does that drive come from?
I mean, you spoke at the very start about as a young girl having this sense of purpose
and drive and ambition, but watching Survivor and then thinking, I want to do this.
Where on earth do you find that, Pia?
I honestly think it was just a fangirl thing.
I mean, really, it was just a fan thing where I love the game.
I love this game.
And more so in the old days, I think it's changed a little bit where it's lots of young
people with muscles.
Back in the old days, someone who's 70 would be with someone who's 50, who's never
done any sport in their life.
They might win against these strong young whippersnappers.
I love that about it.
It's a social experiment.
And I love the idea that it's a game where you have to try and get people to like you
enough to keep you in, regardless of your physical attributes.
Then you have to lie to their faces and vote them out.
And then you have to have them like you enough at the end to vote you to win.
So you have to lie to people, have them be disappointed, and then have them go,
but I still like you.
Now, really great Survivor fans don't care.
I could not care.
People said, what will you feel like if your tri-mates say mean things about you?
I'm like, I don't care because the rules of society are gone.
It's part of the game.
If I love someone so much and they voted me out, I'd be like, great game.
That's how much some of us love the game that we just, I didn't enjoy.
There was some nastiness out there and I never engaged in that.
And I didn't like it because it can get a little bit Lord of the Flies near the end
where some people get picked on.
And I really, that really upset me.
And I wrote about it in my book that one of my friends was getting picked on
and it was inappropriate.
I found it really inappropriately cruel.
But because I was playing Survivor, I shut my mouth and I didn't say anything.
And I apologized in his ear.
I said, I'm sorry, but they're all against me and I can't talk to you.
It was great move for the game because I didn't get voted out and I won.
It was a horrible move for me as a person.
He's like fine with it.
But I remember going to the producers and saying, in my normal life,
when I see someone being picked on, I will stand up and say, this is not okay.
And right now, because we were right at the end of the game,
I said, I'm just sitting there mute because the game has become more important
than my humanity.
And that was the only time I really struggled with it.
And also too, you struggled coming out of it.
You say everyone who does that show is changed in some way.
How did it change you?
And has it changed you for the better now?
I think now 100% for the better because I mean, because I'm small also,
and you know, I look quite young.
I've been infantilized quite a lot in my life.
So now people are a little bit afraid of me at all times.
You're like, don't mess with her.
And I'm like, what's she plotting?
So I really enjoy that part of it.
Even on sets, I walk in and I'm like, no, she's all right.
But you know, I think I saw different sides of humanity.
I think that for a lot of us, you know, I think families are the unsung heroes
of Survivor because they deliver their family members.
And if you spend 50 days on a beach with everyone lying and stealing
and doing all sorts of things, you don't get the same person back.
And it takes a very long time.
And you also get this person back that has these very, very full on relationships
with these people that you've never met.
And that's a lot.
But I think it changed me afterwards.
I felt very, a lot of winners talk about it because, you know,
there's a little bit of winner's guilt because I was on the beach.
There were two other people that spent 49, 50 days with me
and they walked away with nothing.
But I did have a little pact with one of them and I did something nice for him.
So we had a pact.
So that made me feel good.
And what was that?
In the final three, there was two of us who were pretty sure that one of us was going to win.
And so we sat on the beach and we said, one of us is going to win this.
And he said, well, if I win, I'll blah, blah, blah.
And I said, well, if I win, I'll do this for you.
And so when I won, the first thing I did was I emailed him and said,
you know, this is what I've done.
And it was really, it was a really, really nice moment just to feel good about that.
But I think that it was the first time I really felt like I was mentally struggling
with like who I was, what I'd done.
Just, I was, I struggled to cope for a long time.
Also because, you know, there was a lot of gender bias with how I was treated afterwards,
which happens to a lot of female winners.
There's a real problem in some of those games, especially Survivor,
where sometimes, you know, when a man lies to someone's face,
everyone's like, great game.
And when a woman does the same, they're horrible.
And they're a nasty person because women are meant to be the protectors
and the provide, you know, all that kind of thing.
Or sometimes when a woman and a man in that game make a move together,
often the man gets credited for making that move.
And the woman gets sort of seen as someone who just is just tagged along.
So that stuff was frustrating to me.
And I think if frustration and anger is really hard to move on from.
And it eats you up too, doesn't it?
It can be destructive.
I mean, thank God I had Janine's, which gets so annoyed at the edit sometimes,
And you mentioned there Janine, wonderful Janine from Boost.
And you've got this beautiful friendship, the two of you together.
I mean, we met, I mean, I was in my mid forties, like, when do you meet a friend?
I mean, I went out there to just lie to everyone, go out in flames,
conquer and destroy.
And then I met her and we just knew.
I was like, there is no way.
I would have voted her out, but I would have told her.
I said, I'll vote you out, but I'll let you know.
There's just no way we were going to turn on each other.
And we are still to this day, best buddies.
Talk every single day.
And they're the silver linings, aren't they?
They're the unexpected joys that can come out of times
that you think nothing good will come from this.
I just want to finish with the title of your book, Finding My Bella Vita.
I've probably massacred that with my terrible Aussie accent.
You should hear my audio book is such bad Italian in it.
I've wrote all these words and I can't say them.
Tell me, can you do it in your lovely accent for me, the title and also what it means?
Finding My Bella Vita means finding my beautiful life.
So I wanted the word beauty in there because, or beautiful,
because I talk a lot about beauty and beauty privilege and how, you know,
sort of much pressure we put on a certain type of beauty.
So I loved having that word in the title because to me,
beautiful doesn't just mean aesthetically beautiful,
or it means aesthetically beautiful, but on a grander scale,
like not just what we're taught to believe.
So I actually originally wanted to call it my life as an anchovy,
but they wouldn't let me.
You describe yourself as an anchovy.
Tell us why and how, you know, people would then interpret that.
Well, I say that I'm like an anchovy because if you're into me,
you're really into me and if you don't, I'm quite offensive.
And then people laugh a bit too hard.
It's like when I say to people, well, I'm sort of like Ralph Macchio, you know,
it's like forever a child, is she a man, is she a girl?
And everyone laughs a lot.
Yeah, so I always think of myself as an anchovy.
Like if you like me, you want me on everything.
If you're not, you sort of screw up your nose and like, oh, that thing.
Well, I'm usually not a fan of anchovies, but I'm a fan of yours, Bea.
Thank you so much for sharing some of your beautiful life with us.
It's been really very special to talk with you.
Thank you for having me.
Oh, how brilliant is Pia.
I just love chatting with her and I would so love to sit down
and have her cook me an amazing Italian meal.
When I told my daughter Allegra, who's 16, that I was chatting with Pia,
Allegra was blown away because she's read the book
and she's also seen Pia in the wonderful Looking for Alabrandi movie.
It really is something, a story that sticks with so many different generations, doesn't it?
Now, as I mentioned, I loved Pia's memoir, Finding My Bella Vita,
and that is available now in all good bookstores.
And do you know as well, Looking for Alabrandi is on Netflix at the moment.
I watched it the other night and it is just such a beautiful story.
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And if you love this chat with Pia,
I reckon you're going to love my chat with Nazeem Hussain.
Even in primary school, there were moments when I could have become someone that was bullied.
But because I have a quick tongue and my personality is that I like an audience.
So if there's people there, I'll make them laugh.
And so the bullies could never really get away with bullying me properly
because they become the butt of the joke.
And then they would be ganged up on because I would make everybody else laugh.
And sometimes them.
So I was sort of evaded bullying.
The Jessrow Big Talk Show is hosted by me, Jessrow.
Executive producer, Nick McClure.
She's a wonderful Leopard lady.
Audio imager, Nat Marshall.
Supervising producer, Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.