I came home one night and I couldn't wait to get home and we had couches that faced
each other in our living room in our then home and I said, how are you going, you know,
expecting it to be all beautiful little family with the cat and the new kid and our house
and what else could be better?
And you said, not good.
I said, what do you mean not good?
And then bang, the floodgates opened and it was on and I thought, shit, this is very real.
And I remember coming across and giving you a big hug and saying, everything's going
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
I don't know about you, but in this time of social isolation, I really crave connected
So I'm going to dig deep to give you a new window into the souls of the people we're
curious to get to know and understand.
There might be tears as well as laughter as we celebrate the real life flaws and vulnerabilities
that make us human.
Peter Overton is one of Australia's most well-known journalists.
He anchors the Channel 9 News in Sydney every night.
We begin our bulletin tonight with breaking news.
Good evening, Peter Overton in the Sydney Newsroom.
Australians are tonight honouring the memory of Bob Hawke.
He's the Premier of the state, but at home, Dominic Perete is a husband and father first.
I caught up with the Premier.
And he's also a reporter for 60 Minutes.
And that's when I discovered there's another side to Tom Cruise, that when he's angry,
the cool man of Hollywood can become downright icy.
Here's the thing, Peter.
You're stepping over a line now.
You're stepping over a line.
You know you are.
I suppose they're questions that people want to know.
Peter, you want to know.
As a reporter, I've covered too many stories to count.
A lot of them are memorable, but there's one that people ask me about more than any other,
And he also happens to be my husband.
I call him Petey.
We've been married for 18 years.
I had to convince him to be a guest on my podcast.
He does not like talking about himself.
He wants the focus to be on other people and their stories.
But I wanted to share with you the side to my husband that makes him so very special.
Cannot believe it.
I have my husband, my darling Petey, here in the studio.
But I've kind of got you here under duress, don't I?
I can't believe I'm sitting here with you, Jessica.
I love your podcast, but I love it when you interview other people, not your husband.
It was so difficult to convince you to come on in, but because you're such a supporter
of mine, you agreed.
I love to talk about myself.
Well, I said I'll get my people to talk to your people, then I realised I have no people.
So that's why I'm here, because I had a good chat to myself, and I said I will support
But what is it about you that means you don't like talking about yourself?
Because most people love the sound of their own voices.
I just do what I do, and you know that.
You know, I tell you what I do, and you give me a pat on the back.
But I think we all need a pat on the back occasionally.
So I'm very, very strong at supporting particularly the young people in the newsroom and the older
ones as well, the veterans.
But I don't seek to put out what I do.
I'm paid well to do what I do.
And if you get the occasional pat on the back, it's very nice.
You talk about the help that you give people.
How we first met many, many years ago was when I was doing work experience.
And even though, okay, sparks didn't fly them between us, but I remember at the time...
There was no current.
There was no current.
Well, I was wearing overalls from memory.
If an electrician had put the multimeter on us, there was no current.
We were in very different stages of our lives, weren't we?
What stuck with me though from that time was I remember thinking, what a kind man you were.
You took the time to explain how to do a news story.
And because normally when you do work experience, you see people run a million miles.
I don't want to have anything to do with the work experience person.
And you spend your day reading the newspaper thinking, please, someone talk to me.
You though took me out on a news story and it was Cost Yazoo when he first arrived in
Couldn't speak English.
And I was there by your side.
Because I started on work experience.
My beautiful father had a relationship with the great Sydney radio station, Powerhouse
2UE, and they did a radiothon.
And I was about 15 and I said to Dad, I really can see myself working in the media because
I'm very interested in people's stories.
I love to know about people and their back story.
And I'd love to do work experience.
Could you make it happen?
And I get about 30 requests a week about could you make work experience happen?
And Dad made it happen.
And I remember really making the luck happen for me.
And I got on AirAge 17, but I've always remembered the opportunity that I was given then.
So when a work experience kid comes through the newsroom or a young person comes in, I
never, ever forget all those years ago that I was given an opportunity and now they've
been given an opportunity.
And you can soon tell whether they're passionate about it or not.
And even if they're not passionate, you still at least, well, maybe I'm a bit perverse,
but I want to make them talk to me to find out what makes them tick.
So why did I help you?
Maybe it was the overalls you were wearing.
But because look at you, you went on to have an illustrious career and still having it.
You know, you've reinvented yourself a few times, but you know, you had the passion and
you were very pretty.
Oh, thanks, my darling.
So I want to talk about, you mentioned radio.
What was that like when you first started?
Because the work environment was very different during those times.
The announcers would be in studios, smoking cigarettes.
I remember going on air age 16 or 17 and I was in the studio and I had to do a sports
update and Chris Kearns had one of the most beautiful voices in radio, a real radio man.
And it was my first ever time on air.
And I went into the studio and he had about five Benton and Hedges burning in different
It was this plume of cigarette smoke and he loved to bet on the horses.
And he went, it's time now for a sports update with Peter over to an afternoon, Peter.
And he just buried his head in the form guide and the cigarettes.
And I went, thank you very much, Chris, and I looked up and all I could see was this wall
of Benton and Hedges smoke.
And Kearnsie on the phone going, can I get 10 bucks on the second at Rose Hill, yeah.
So I had to keep going and I remember going home that night and saying to Dad, did you
He said, outstanding son, outstanding.
But that was the environment we were in.
It was fantastic, but so different.
I remember the teleprinters in the newsroom and I was in the work experience kit in my
early days in the newsroom.
Not many people were talking to me.
It was one of those moments where I was just, oh, we've got another work experience kid.
But I was in my collar and tie and I was determined that this was going to be my career.
And I'll never forget the newsreader, I won't say his name, but he was on air.
And I went over to the teleprinter, the telex machine, there's no computers, that's how
you got the feed of the news.
And I'm looking there and this thing comes up about Margaret Thatcher and MPs in a bomb
And I ripped it off and I opened the newsroom booth door and I said, in silence, handed
it to him, gesticulating, saying this is.
And that was like a real moment for me where I thought, oh, I have got news sense.
And I was recognised in that newsroom and that was a turning point for me.
And then a mentor of yours came along and thought, I see some potential in this young
Well, I was at Macquarie University and I finished my economics degree there with communications
sprinkled through it.
And TUE, I was hoping for a full time gig there, but for whatever reason, the timing
But Graham McNeese, another legend of Australian media, they just started this satellite broadcasting
service called Club Superstation.
And it went into about six clubs in New South Wales, so didn't have a huge reach or audience.
So not quite a superstation at that point.
No, just an operation.
But it was state of the art technology.
It was fantastic.
And he needed a young bloke to come and learn the trade.
And I jumped at it.
I finished my degree and I worked so hard, six days a week, 12, 13 hours a day.
And I learnt to ad lib.
And I think that's what stood me in great stead when I do the news now.
And if something happens or when I was at 60 minutes for nearly a decade, that's thinking
on your feet the whole time.
I remember, I wouldn't know the back end of a horse from the front end of a horse, let
alone the back end of a greyhound to the front end of a greyhound.
But I had to host five-state horse racing and five-state greyhound racing.
And with the greyhounds, it was funny, I was maybe 19 or 20, and I'd come on at night and
I'd go, good evening everyone and welcome to five-state greyhound racing.
I'm Peter Overton tonight.
We've got races from Brisbane, Sydney, Tasmania.
We're in Adelaide.
We'll also go to Perth.
And I'll be your host for the next seven hours.
And I'll go, let's check an updated market now on the 1st at Webworth Park in Sydney.
10 to 1, 5 to 1, 6 to 1, 5 to 2.
And I'll go through the odds.
And then dividends are through on Angle Park Race 2, 526.20 and 590.
The Quinella paid 552.40 and the Trifecta on 5, 7 and 9 paid $2.20.
They're about to jump in Tasmania.
I can see the green lights on, the lures rolling.
We've lost sound.
I'm going to have to call it myself.
The pink, the brown, the yellow, the green, I don't know.
Anyway, we'll figure that out.
Anyway, updated market through now on the 2nd at the Gabba.
5 to 1, 10 to 1, 6 to 1.
And I do this and then halfway through it, you go, we've got a break now.
With me is Richard Wilkins.
Richard's, of course, playing music clips in between races.
Richard, what have you got?
Well, Pete, I've got the latest from Jimmy Barnes and Cold Chisel.
It's a great piece and a great song.
And he'd go on and Richard, you know, Richard's 67 now, I think.
So this we're talking 35 plus years ago.
And he'd waffle for so long that we couldn't pay the clip.
I said, sorry, Richard, they're about to jump in Tasmania.
We're going to have to leave you there.
Sorry, Richard, we'll come back to Jimmy Barnes and Richard in a minute.
And that's what I do. And I get home.
I was still at Mum and Dad's because I was only about 19.
And I get into bed, into my single bed downstairs.
And I'd just be lying there going 5 to 1, 6 to 1, 7 to 1, 10 to 1,
trifecta on this. And I just couldn't stop.
But it taught me so much.
Incredible training.
And you know what? Richard Wilkins is still one of my great friends.
We've been at nine together. I've been at nine.
This is my 31st year.
And Richard's about the same, if not a bit longer.
And Graham McNeese, of course, who gave me the opportunity,
is godfather to one of our daughters.
So they're very important people, those people, to keep relationships.
Critical, actually.
Too many people, once they've used you up, they move on very quickly.
But something my parents have taught me never, ever to do.
And that is what I think is very special about you
and was what drew me to you when I met you again many years later.
Not my handsomeness?
Well, of course you're handsome.
And also, I reckon you get better with age.
I say that to you. You get more and more handsome.
The older you get, my darling.
And your decency is what I think shines out of you.
And this is why I want to talk to you, my darling,
is that you are very shy about that.
And your goodness, you don't like to spread that around
in the sense of telling people,
oh, I do this or I've done this.
Well, it's not hard to be a decent human being.
But for some people it is.
What is it that has made you the way you are
and your moral compass set the way it's so beautifully set?
Oh, thank you, Jessica.
That's, I think, my upbringing, mum and dad.
And very much watching my father,
who is professor of paediatric anesthesia at the Children's Hospital.
So that's a commitment to giving people a start in life
and very sick babies.
And I used to watch him and, you know, he and I,
like Allegra and I, thick as thieves, still are to this day.
And I watch his decency with people
and his decency with parents of very, very ill children
and how he used to have to say to them,
I'm sorry your child has died.
We've done everything we can.
Or the joy that he would have when he'd say to parents,
you had a very, very ill baby,
but it's a delight to say after eight months
that you can take your baby home.
And watching him deal with people, I suppose,
is the overarching thought pattern here for me.
It's not hard to be decent.
It's not hard to have good manners.
It's not hard to say, how are you?
It's not hard to pause.
And when you say, how are you,
actually listen to how they are.
Because too many people, how are you?
And someone might say, I'm not feeling so well.
Oh, that's great, okay.
And what are we doing now?
That's so prevalent.
I watch it all the time.
So I don't know, decency, it's just,
it's very kind of you to say, but it's a nice way to be.
It's a nice way to live.
And I think in an industry where decency
can sometimes be challenged,
it's nice to be consistent.
And I think in the newsroom,
I'm well-respected, I know I'm well-respected
because I'm a team player.
And I've got all my colleagues back
and we're all equals, whether it's Frank the cleaner
who I stop and ask, how are you?
And he tells me how he is.
And the plumber or the locksmith,
they're all my friends because they enrich your lives
and they are all part of the success we all have
in my industry and in my employer at Channel 9.
So Frank the cleaner makes us have a nice workplace
environment to work in.
Stu the locksmith keeps the place secure.
The plumber keeps the pipes clear.
The receptionist is the first person who people call.
All those people are critical to the success of 60 Minutes
or Nine News or the Today Show
because we are all cogs in a wheel.
And that wheel can only turn when everyone is,
in my opinion, working beautifully together
and we're all on the same level.
So I see too many people who wouldn't even know
that we had plumbers or a locksmith
or an electrician or whatever.
And I remember at the Logies one year,
I accepted a Logie on most outstanding news coverage
for I think our coverage of the bushfires
in the Blue Mountains.
And I got up and in front of all my peers in the black tie,
I said, I'm just a big cock in a big wheel.
I said, I'm a small cock in a big wheel.
And everyone had had a few sherbies by then
so it brought the house down.
Well, you were genuine, my darling, about it.
And speaking of the Logies,
that was when you and I re-met after we'd met
at work experience all those years previously.
And then I remember I met you at the Logies,
I was working at Channel 10 as a news presenter at the time
and I was dating someone who'll remain nameless.
But I met you, Petey, you got me a glass of champagne,
was at the Channel Nine after party.
And I remember thinking, as we were chatting,
why can't I go out with someone like this?
Oh, you're very kind.
Oh, now come on, don't be sheepish.
How many years have we been married?
18. Yeah, exactly.
No, I remember that, Jessie,
I remember getting you the champagne.
I was single at the time and I'd just started at 60 minutes.
So my focus on everything was just travelling the world
and having a great time as a reporter.
But I remember fondly chatting to you that,
and getting you that champagne, very nice.
And what then subsequently happened was
I found myself single,
and I decided to ask you out on a date
because I was tired of meeting...
The wrong person.
The wrong person.
And so I'm a huge believer in,
you've just got to go for things sometimes.
So remember, I rang you, my darling.
You did, a mutual friend rang me and said,
I said, mate, ask Jessica Rowe out on a date.
I said, mate, not interested.
And I didn't know this at the time.
I didn't know that Tony had to convince you
to go out with me.
Because I was focusing on my new career at 60 minutes.
I'd just come out of a divorce
and I was pretty shattered by that.
And I wasn't ready to commit to anyone.
I was only ready to commit to 60 minutes
and learn a very challenging, unique role
in that incredible television program.
But anyway, he badgered me.
I said, yeah, right, she rings me.
I'll take her out to dinner.
And so you rang and I remember saying,
I like your style.
And we went out on the Sunday night
and 18 years later, we're still together.
Which is pretty amazing.
And I remember we had a lovely dinner at a Thai restaurant.
Blue Ginger, it was called.
I remember the parking ticket I got.
I cannot believe that is what you think about.
I cannot believe that is like, so what?
It was worth the parking ticket.
And I remember you said to me,
okay, I'm going off to shoot a story.
With Greg Norman.
Yeah, with Greg Norman.
I'll ring you when I come back in two weeks.
And I thought, yeah, here we go.
I've heard that before.
They're gonna ring you.
And it was my birthday.
You rang me and you said,
oh, what are you doing this Saturday night?
And I said, well, it's my birthday.
I'm going out with my family and a bunch of friends.
And you said, I'd love to come.
And I remember thinking, what?
Because there's not a lot of,
I don't think people who would suddenly wanna meet
basically your nearest and dearest on the second date.
And I thought, well, this is a good sign.
So then I got quite excited as I tend to do
because I love an outfit.
I'm just remembering that when I knocked on the door,
was it a mermaid outfit?
It was a mermaid.
I was dressed as a mermaid.
I still am pretty conservative.
And I was like, God, what the heck have I got here?
So I had this wonderful dress
that a friend of mine had made,
especially for the occasion.
It was blue off the shoulder
and it had sequins trailing like seaweed.
And another friend did this bright blue eyeshadow
and big lashes and glitter.
And my hair was sticking up.
And as you say, you were there
and I think you are in Williamsburg.
In my uniform, which I'm still in today.
But I remember what, again, what was so beautiful.
You opened the door and you said to me,
you take my breath away.
Did I really say that?
Maybe there was an auto-cue behind you.
Anyway, you take my breath away, Jessica.
And you still do.
Yes, and I cope with all your outrageous behaviour.
In terms of dressing.
And even recently when we moved house
and the remover said this is a world record
of Porter Robes, they've never seen so many Porter Robes.
In our house, I have a small cupboard in another bedroom.
You have a very big area.
In fact, I think we could own most of the coastline
of New South Wales if we sold all your outfits.
We could buy a lot of land.
You know what I love too, my darling,
is that you tolerate that in me and not only tolerate it,
you let me be me.
Sometimes I get a little overwhelmed and frustrated
with it all, but what do you do?
Because usually you've made the decision
and you've paid the money.
So it's all done.
But yes, and sadly, our eldest daughter is like that.
She's more, she likes an outfit like me.
I want to take her to the casino
because she's memorised my credit card number
and she's phenomenal at spending.
But no, you're unique.
And if ever their opposites attract,
if they ever wanted to do a case study,
you know, a global case study, I think it's you and I.
But we're very, very happy.
But why do you think that is the case?
Why does that work?
Great question, have no idea.
But you've brought me out as well.
You've, you know, you've really brought me out as a person.
Like when I met you, I think my world was very narrow.
And then I enter your orbit.
And, you know, holy smoke, it was different.
You know, I learned all about mental health
and I didn't know about bipolar disorder.
I didn't know about how it can ravage you.
And, you know, I got a quick, very quickly
got a front row seat to your mother's bipolar disorder,
which you've spoken, both of you very public about it.
I've done a 60 minute story on it.
It's the illness no one wants to talk about,
a condition that's becoming an epidemic.
But for me, it's personal.
That's why my wife, Jessica Rowe, and her mother Penny
chose to be part of this report.
And I see the very, the highs and the desperate lows.
And I learned all about you as a, you know,
10 year old on the bus going out to Prince Henry
to the mental hospital out there
with your two little sisters in tow
and you standing on the suitcase to pull the cord,
you know, to see your mum
as she'd be in hospital for six months at a time.
So suddenly my small world was like, open right up.
And it was incredible.
And then throw 60 minutes into the mix.
And, you know, it was a whole new set of glasses
And you're a big part of that, huge part of that.
And every day, you know, you're so, so smart
the way you approach an issue.
And I can still be pretty black and white
on my feelings about an issue,
but you'll then bring in some counter arguments.
I go, okay, I'll get that.
I understand that.
And I respect that because you have an incredible intellect,
an incredible mind, an incredible care.
And that's, you know, every day that filters into me.
Very much so, very much so.
Thanks, my darling.
But what about when I first left Studio 10?
And I remember you would say to me,
Pussycat, you're not on Studio 10 anymore,
when I'd be interrogating different arguments
or discussions or issues with you.
But one of our daughters, Giselle, particularly,
she's like you and it drives me spare sometimes
because she's 12 years old and her opinions
and her strength of character and her will.
I go, oh no, I've got two of them now.
But aren't you lucky?
Why can't it just be simple?
No, life isn't simple.
You've taught me that too, Jessica.
You've taught me that big time.
But it certainly makes for an interesting life.
Female dog, female cat, wife, two daughters and me.
Lots of strong, fierce female energy.
And it is, it is.
And that is absolutely magnificent as a father
to see strong of character daughters and like their mother
with strong opinions and strong sense of justice
and strong sense of what's right and what's wrong.
And that comes from you very much so.
And I know with Allegra, our 15 year old,
she really has a strong sense of justice.
And she and I talk, talk, talk, talk.
And I can irritate her greatly.
But you know what?
I know we've just gone off on a tangent,
but with Allegra, the best thing I've done as a father,
if there's any plus side to COVID
and we wish there wasn't COVID,
but we've gone for a drive pretty much every night
for two years, just the two of us.
And she plays her music or she talks to me about issues
and that can be teenage sex, parties, drugs,
what she's hearing in the playground, what she's saying.
What do I think of that?
What am I going to feel?
How am I going to feel when a boy asks me this?
What do you think boys will want to do if I go to a party?
And all of that is incredible.
And I know that those trays come from her mother
and you've put your real imprint on her and Giselle.
And so I go along for the ride and that's wonderful
because our relationship is so strong
and that's in great part due to you.
I love seeing that relationship that you have
with both of our daughters, the conversations that you have
and the level of detail that they'll want to go
And I think as a parent, there's nothing more
that you could actually hope for,
that you want your kids to come and talk to you
about those things that are worrying them
or that matter to them.
Sometimes Giselle's intellect, I just don't know where to go
because her arguments are so strong and considered
and I think to myself, where did that come from?
That bright spark shining like a lighthouse in a storm.
And again, I think that's more from you than me
but so important the communication.
It's critical actually, whether it's in a marriage
or with your children or with your colleagues at work,
Yeah, talking and connection.
Or the waiter at the local pizza shop
who when we go on a date, I can tell you all about that.
I know all about the waiters.
PD knows everyone.
And I know their stories and it's wonderful.
Well, I now accept that as part of our date night
when we first met and early on in our relationship
and marriage, though it used to do my head in
that I think, no, because I would want to just talk to you
and I would be there and then you would suddenly
be interviewing the waiter or we'd go to the supermarket
and you would interview the person behind the checkout
or the person doing the fruit or the parking.
Everyone has a story.
Of course they do.
Everyone does have a story, but sometimes it was like,
can we just have the two of us, please?
But again, that was a part of you that I love
that you've taught me that everyone, yes, does have a story
that everyone deserves that special time
and the difference you can make to someone
just by taking that time to ask them a few questions
and those beautiful relationships and connections.
Well, I'll tell you, Jessica, sometimes the waiters
are more interesting than the people you work with
in your industry.
I thought you were gonna say me and I was gonna go, what?
But you know, we've been in situations where we're talking
to people who have on air roles at other stations
or whatever and I'll spend 45 minutes just chatting
to them about them, then I might stop to take a breath.
Do you think they ever ask about me?
But it's really interesting how people do have a story,
but you get it out of them, but it's the waiters
and it's the people like, I know the garbos.
I know the guys who concrete the footpaths.
I know all of them because they all have something
to contribute to the world and it enriches your life.
And it doesn't take long to stop for a minute or two minutes
or five minutes to talk to the garbo.
And you know, I know the garbos.
And I know their family stories.
I know when their kids have, they've been fascinating.
Now, what I want to talk to you about as well
is early on in both of our roles as parents,
we hit a pretty big speed bump.
And that was when I had post-natal depression.
And me being the sort of person I am, less so now,
but I felt like a failure
when I realised I had post-natal depression.
I was so ashamed and I felt I had to hide it from you
and I had to hide it from everyone
because I felt like I was letting a brand new family down.
Remember it vividly, Jessica.
And here's the woman who's the advocate
who's received an AM for all her roles
in destigmatising mental illness in our community,
who has been instrumental in caring for her mother,
who has a lifelong battle with bipolar disorder,
who will shout from the rooftops,
you know, mental illness is like breaking your leg,
but we've just got to accept it's part of life
and we've got to care for people with it
as we care for the person who has cancer
or a busted leg or diabetes.
So suddenly for you to feel embarrassed and ashamed,
it was like, whoa.
I'll never forget, I was travelling so much for 60 minutes.
We were away for up to eight months of the year,
not in one hit, but that's the volume of travel we would do.
And we had Allegra and then I was out the door
and on the way and...
Once Allegra was born, you went back to work
when she was two days old.
And I was on a story.
I was lucky, I think I was on a Sydney story
and it wasn't long after I came home one night
and I couldn't wait to get home
and we had couches that faced each other
in our living room in our then home.
And I said, how are you going, you know,
expecting it to be all beautiful
and beautiful little family with the cat
and the new kid and our house
and what else could be better?
And you said, not good.
I was, what do you mean not good?
How could you not be going well?
And then bang, the floodgates opened and it was on.
And I thought, shit, this is very real.
And I remember coming across and giving you a big hug
and saying, everything's going to be all right.
You're not having negative thoughts, suicidal thoughts
or wanting to harm Allegra.
And you said, no, no, no.
And it was all very, you know, confronting.
And I then remember, I said, we'll get help.
The next day I called the obstetrician
and said, this is where we're at and Jessica needs help.
And she got you in straight into a specialist
and we were lucky, you know,
we had the ways and the means to get to the specialist.
And then I remember the doctor ringing me
and this lady was the most warm, beautiful obstetrician.
But I saw the other side on the phone to me that day
and I can still see myself sitting
in the 60 minutes cottage at my desk.
And she said, Peter, it's Jan.
I said, oh, hi Jan.
She said, you are not traveling at all for 60 minutes.
You have a very, very ill wife
and you have to be here to care for her and your baby.
You are not traveling.
Do I make myself clear?
She did not miss a beat.
And I went, yep, yep, of course.
And you know, then I realized it was full on.
And then of course I came home one afternoon
and you started writing stuff
and you'd left a word document open on the computer.
And you were writing an article from magazine
about your experiences and you talked about knives
and your mum coming over
and you having to throw out kitchen knives and stuff.
And I think we had a little clock
that you thought you could crush Allegra's skull with.
And what's important to mention here
is that it wasn't as if I thought I would do that.
I imagined that it might happen.
Yes, but that's still confronting for me to read.
And I remember you drove in and I went up,
I said, hey, I've just read this and just comforted you.
And it was like, wow, this is very serious.
But if there's any upside out of this, you're okay.
We got the treatment.
And you and I became advocates for postnatal depression
because I think it was really important
for not only the person who had the postnatal,
that being you and the impact on you,
but it was important for the partner to speak as well.
And I remember a lovely lady,
Dr. Nicole Hyatt from Beyond Blue at the time asked me,
I thought it was quite inspired.
She said, I want to record you and your experience
for the fathers out there.
And then there's two instances,
I was hosting a function in Canberra,
charity function for brain cancer.
And this Australian federal police officer
was one of the guests and she came up to me
and she dragged a husband who was,
I'll never forget it, he was a classic male,
classic male and he was a tough cop.
And he said, thank God you did that video
because it gave me an insight
into what my wife was going through,
what you went through.
And then we're on Avoka beach
on the central coast of New South Wales.
And I could see this man, he was looking at me
and he wanted to come and say something
and he wanted to come and say something.
And then he did come and say,
Peter, my wife has postnatal depression
and what you and your wife have done helped me
and what you did in your video helped me understand
from a male perspective.
So that was really important,
the whole journey and experience.
And I can tell you that I've been in the company
of recently, you know, some pretty senior people
with high profiles and it's amazing
when the cameras stop rolling
and we're just having a chat away,
I'll say the way your wife has spoken
about postnatal depression, her experiences,
she's written about it in the books
that the help that has given me and my wife
or me and my husband has been quite remarkable.
And it bowls you over because that was 15 years ago.
And you'd be surprised who these people are.
But it's comforting.
And it makes it worthwhile talking about it.
And for me, I'll never forget how kind
and beautiful you were that night
because I was so afraid of telling you
because I felt like I was letting you down,
a brand new baby down.
And I felt like a failure.
I felt like I was a bad mum.
We'd gone through IVF to have Allegra.
And the whole Today Show experience as well.
That was our little secret, wasn't it?
It was the thing that sustained us
as all that rubbish went on at the Today Show
and your role on the Today Show.
At least we had the IVF journey
and we'd trek along to the IVF clinic
and go, you know, stick it to all these,
you know, everyone having their opinion about you
That was the thing that only mattered to us.
Only mattered to us.
And remember, there was the board at the IVF clinic.
Yes, full of photos of mums and dads
and the brand new babies.
So I would go in and I would clear a space on that board.
And I'd say, well, that's where our photo's going to go,
okay, because I think we did four attempts
and it wasn't easy.
And then at the obstetricians,
I also found a little spare space.
So that's where ours is going to go.
A lot of colleagues at Channel Nine now,
a lot of wonderful mums, new mums have said,
oh, we saw your photo on the board at the obstetricians.
And, you know, that was a goal.
That was a goal like buying that pink bottle
of Krug champagne and putting it down in the garden shed.
I said, right, I'll get that out of the garden shed.
Cost a bomb, got it tasted good.
When we brought Allegra home from the hospital.
And it's so important, I think,
to have those bubbles of hope that you hold onto.
Going through the IVF,
there would be times when you would feel hopeless
and your spirits would be so low
because you'd think, this is never going to happen for us.
And both of us desperately wanted to be parents.
And then there'd be other times
when that bubble would be fuller.
And you'd think, yes, yes, yes, we can do it.
And I think too that brought us closer
going through that together.
I remember maybe it was our third attempt
and we were driving through Huskison,
I think we were staying at Hyams Beach
and we were waiting desperately for the mobile to ring
from the IVF clinic to say,
you know, yep, it's all go.
And I can still see the park we pulled over.
I can still see it.
And we're talking 15 plus years ago.
And it was another failure.
It was like, hmm.
And I remember saying to you at the time,
you know what, Jessica,
if we've just got each other, that'll do me.
We don't have to have a family, you know,
because I could see what it was doing to you and your body
and it's not easy as many of the mums and dads
who listen to this podcast will know
who've gone through IVF.
It's challenging and it really wreaks havoc on your body
and your mental health, everything.
And you said, no, no, we're gonna do this.
We're gonna do this.
And then I remember, I was at 60 minutes
and it was, Peter, we need you to go to Europe on Friday
and then you'll go to Los Angeles.
And then, and I remember saying, I can't go.
I'm sorry, I can't depart on Friday.
No, no, we've gotta go.
We're going on Friday.
And I said, no, no, I'm sorry, I can't go.
I really can't go this Friday
because I had to be at the IVF clinic to play my role
in providing the sperm to-
And it was just a non-negotiable and I couldn't.
And I was saying that for very personal reasons,
I'm not going to tell you why, but.
And in the end, I went into the executive producer's office,
John Westercock, and I sat down and I said,
Westy, my mum knows, my dad knows, Jessica's mum knows,
Jessica's dad knows, Jessica knows and I know.
And now you're going to know.
I can't go to Los Angeles this Friday
because we are on our fourth attempt at IVF
and I have to be there, but bugger if I'm going to tell
everyone in this office why.
But it's so personal and he just,
now Westy was a tough operator
and he got very emotional and he said,
you're not going anywhere.
You're staying here.
You're staying here.
You're going to do this.
He was so caring.
I'll never forget it.
And anyway, we did and I departed,
I think on the Saturday or the Sunday.
Everything was fine.
And with IVF, you have a blood test two weeks later
and it'll tell you whether you're pregnant or not.
And we worked out that I would be in Milan at that point
and you would ring me at three in the morning
on my Nokia phone.
I'll never forget that Nokia phone.
And I'll never forget I was in my Qantas pyjamas
in the Hilton Hotel in Milan.
And at three in the morning, my Nokia rang
and I heard, you're going to be a father.
And it was like, wow.
So the bump in your tummy was called Milano.
And that Milano was in Italy who was 15 years old
and strong-willed and beautiful and it slayed the world.
It was worth every tier and dollar and, you know.
It was so worth it.
I remember that too.
I remember lying on the couch in our home,
looking up at the ceiling,
because I'd been waiting for the call from the clinic,
first of all, to hear whether or not the embryo,
the blastocyst, you know, had taken, so to speak.
And I rang and I got that wonderful news
and I remember ringing you and my voice was quavering
and we both just sobbed together on the phone.
And I think too, in a funny way,
with Allegra, her determined spirit,
I think that has got a lot to do with how she-
Arrived because she was very much hard fought
and we wanted her so much.
And also she then was growing inside of me
during all of that terrible today show
that she hung on in through all of that terrible time.
Amazing, but you know,
we're not the only people that go through IVF.
I'll never forget, I still had three weeks on the road
with the producer, the cameraman and the sound man.
And I couldn't tell him a thing.
Couldn't say a word, but I'll tell you what,
when I got home to John Westercott
back at the 60 Minutes Cottage, the boss, I went in,
I said, I've got some news, but you can't tell anyone.
I said, pregnant, and he just, he got teary.
Hard news man, great man.
It was lovely to share that with him.
It's a great joy, yeah.
What I do want to ask about,
just one more thing that I think is important to talk about
is how much you support me through life
and at certain times when I have needed you so much
through the postnatal depression,
but also before that going through the whole today show.
And I'll remember the time when I decided to take the job
and you're ambivalent and worried
that that was the wrong thing for me to be doing.
But you still supported me because I can be very determined
when I set my mind to something.
No, I wanted to give it a crack.
And I remember you saying, oh, are you sure?
I don't know about this, but you backed me.
And then it did all implode.
I can still remember saying to you,
Channel 9's in a really unsettled place,
perhaps the most unsettled it's been in its history.
And I'm conservative, I'm not a risk taker.
And I said, you know, really think about this.
And you said, no, I'm going to do it.
It's not every day you are offered the co-hosting role
of an iconic Australian television program.
I couldn't argue with that.
I said, you're spot on, spot on.
And I thought you were amazing at that, John.
And circumstances conspired and it didn't last
and that's history.
And there's no use trolling over all of that now
because it's not going to benefit anyone.
But I'll tell you what, the admiration
and just reinventing yourself and what you've achieved
is just stratospheric in my mind.
And I think you inspire a lot of people
because it was so public.
I'd be in Europe and I'd see the papers
before you would on the internet.
And I'd go, oh, jeez, I'll never forget
being in a hotel in Melbourne.
And I walked out one morning and the Australian newspaper
was in front of everyone's front door.
And there was a big photo of you backing out at three
in the morning with photographers outside our house.
I'm thinking, God, love me, give her a break.
But, you know, it's history, it's part of your story
and it's part of our story.
And you have nothing to be ashamed of about that.
You gave it a go.
You will always be one of the co-hosts of that programme.
And look what you've achieved.
And I wouldn't have been able to go through that time
without you there.
And like you said, I remember you used to log on
from the other side of the world
before the papers landed in Australia
to see what it was that I'd be waking up to
because you'd want to check in on me.
I just remember I was ready to quit Channel 9
because I was so upset at the way you were treated.
And you said to me, we've got a mortgage to pay Buster
so don't make such a stupid decision, idiot.
It was great council because I kept going.
And it's worked out all right.
This is my 31st year at nine and I love every second of it.
And that's the thing,
because I do remember saying that to you,
we cannot implode two of our careers at the same time.
Well, I remember them also saying,
oh, maybe you and Jessica could host the show together.
I said, you're kidding me.
So you're going to ruin two careers,
ruin a marriage and ruin a programme in one hit.
It would be a disaster because we are so different.
And I know that I do irritate you sometimes
with my carry on and-
It's novelty value stuff.
I mean, it's not inspired, those decisions.
No, no, not at all.
My darling, you are inspired.
And I want to know what is next for you.
You've been at Channel 9 for 31 years.
The job that you are now doing is your dream job.
It's what you dreamt of doing since you were a little boy.
To keep doing what I'm doing
and Channel 9 to keep wanting me to do what I'm doing.
I love what I do.
I love going to work every single day.
I love being part of the team.
I love the relationships I have with our editors,
our cameramen and women, our producers, our graphic artists,
our floor crew, our studio crew.
It just enriches your life.
I love communicating.
I love the ability to be in the chair
and to communicate the daily record to our audience.
And I do it in a way, a lot of people think,
oh, this is how you've got to be as a newsreader.
I just do it as I do it.
Just have a conversation almost and feel it,
but not overly feel it because it's up to the viewer
to have their emotional reaction on the couch at home.
But you know, hard stories like,
remember the terrible story, appalling story
about the father in Queensland
who incinerated his wife and kids in the car.
And I'll never, ever forget the day of the funeral.
And the last shot in the story was,
and the reporter's saying,
mum was buried in the same casket with her children.
And I came out and I was so upset,
but I kept going, but it was with hell of a quaver
But you got to march on, but you can't not just not march on.
But you've got to be able to feel it as well.
So I'll keep doing it.
I will just keep going.
I'll do the occasional 60 minute story,
which I would really love.
I'll do my charity work.
But the family is the most important thing.
And, you know, seeing our girls grow up
and hopefully being a good role model for them.
Not even hopefully you are,
because what it is I think about you, my darling,
it's your humanity.
It is your humanity that comes through.
And that is what touches so many people
and makes you special, not only at what you do,
And that is what matters most.
Thank you, Jessica.
And you know, the other thing that I love,
it's only you and my mum that call me Jessica.
I call you pussy cat as well.
But sometimes I go, hey, pussy.
And if your mum's there, she'll, you'll hear this.
I love you, my darling.
Thank you for doing this.
Pleasure, pussy cat.
Oh, my Petey, I just love him so much
as I hope you can hear when we talk.
And we are so very different.
But what is so special about our relationship
is we're a team and we do bring the best out in each other.
And I do feel very blessed to have him.
And I know it's the best decision of my life
to marry this very special man.
I could talk endlessly about him, but I won't.
If you wanna see him,
you can watch him reading Channel 9's Sydney News
at 6 p.m. every evening.
Or you might even catch him on my daughter's TikTok.
I'm trying to get him to do more TikToks with me,
but he's like, pussy cat, no, I'm not doing that.
But hopefully this year,
you might see a bit more of him in my TikToks.
But for more beautiful, big conversations like this,
search the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show podcast.
And of course, if you haven't already,
tap follow, add me to your favourites,
because I wanna make sure you never ever miss an episode.
The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me, Jess Rowe,
executive producer, Nick McClure,
audio producer, Nikki Sitch,
supervising producer, Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious
to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.