I think I've done really well by talking my way through it and working my way through
it, which has been amazing.
And I don't feel that, you know, that scariness about it anymore, but that was really hard
So I'd definitely say postpartum depression.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe, and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
I don't know about you, but I really crave connected conversations, so I'm going to dig
deep to give you a new window into the souls of the people we're curious to get to know
There might be tears as well as laughter as we celebrate the real life flaws and vulnerabilities
that make us human.
AFLW player, author, media personality and mother Moana Hope is living the most extraordinary
Growing up with 14 brothers and sisters, playing in the AFL Women's League, caring for her
sister, and now with two kids under two, her days are full.
I've always been blown away by Moana.
She is unashamedly herself.
She says it exactly how it is.
Now I wanted to talk with her about where she gets her resilience, but also who Moana
turns to when it all becomes too much.
Oh my god, it is amazing talking to you because if there could ever be a superhero, a Wonder
Woman, it is you.
Oh, that's so sweet of you.
But there is the Disney Moana.
There's that one.
That's so kind of you.
You are someone that I hear your story and it blows me away because you are so strong.
I'll thank my mum for that.
I think I get her resilience for sure.
For those of our listeners who might know all of your story, you grew up with 14 brothers
I mean, I've got two girls and it blows my mind to think that there was that many of
Yeah, I always say that my mum could have ran Apple.
She could have been the CEO of that.
I don't even know how she did it.
I've got two little ones and I don't even have time to have a two minute shower.
So I'm assuming she just went her whole life without a shower and she also fostered a bunch
So at one stage, there was 19 of us kids living under her roof, 19.
I think she's the angel living on earth, if there was one.
So I remember growing up, she had a whiteboard and all of our names down the whiteboard and
then chores to the right.
So you'd wake up in the morning and you'd have like, my chore might be to do the dishes
or to mop the lounge room or fold the clothes.
Everyone had a chore and she also worked full time as a nurse.
So she was pretty amazing.
I remember hearing somewhere you said it was love.
That was what mattered most and that's what got each and every one of you through.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And like, I'll be real and honest, there were times that we didn't have certain meals, like
we didn't have dinners or lunches to go to school or things like that.
But we had a roof over our head and we had clothes on our backs and we did eat throughout
For me, I watched my mum give everything that she had, literally the clothing off her back
And, you know, at Christmas time, we got a gift and things like that.
So it was the love that my mum showed amongst, I guess, the challenges that she faced as
well was unbelievable.
For me, no money can buy that.
Hearing you describe your mum, it makes me feel, oh, just extraordinary because that's
how you want your kids to talk about what you're like as a parent.
But also, though, what I wanted to, Mo, is a lot of people might have had a similar experience
or have some difficult things happen, but they then might be angry and resentful about
that, about sometimes not having enough food, about being all squished in one room together.
Why did you not become, I suppose, resentful or angry about that, what you didn't have?
Oh, because I'm here today, right?
You know, I love my mum very much.
Like, if only you heard my mum's real full story, she's just an unbelievable woman.
But I think for me, becoming a mum to Svia and Ahi, it has honestly made me see things
from a different light, but never resentful and never hateful or angry about it, only
that I wanted to be better in certain areas to my kids.
And I think one of the things that's shown up for me recently was, you know, my kids,
I want to kiss them and cuddle them and squeeze them every second of the day.
And I knew that my mum probably wanted to give us that and we never had that because
there were so many of us.
So I guess for me, I look back at that and go, I wish I had that cuddles and I wish I
had those everyday kisses because I don't remember them a lot.
But at the same time, for me as a parent, that's what I want to give my kids.
So I don't look at that and resent my mum for that.
But I do look at that and go, I want to be better as a parent in that area.
Does that make sense?
I can't hate or be resentful or be mad at a woman that sacrificed her life for us kids.
So beautifully said.
And let's talk though about you as a mum, as a parent now.
How old is your little boy?
My little guy, he is nine weeks.
Now, I started at the outset by saying you are extraordinarily strong and wonderful.
I mean, you have a nine week old little one and you are talking to me
When my kids were nine weeks old, I couldn't string a sentence together.
So you are winning big time.
Yeah, I guess I kind of haven't even had a chance to breathe since having the little guy.
And that's just all I know.
Like I'm still working.
I haven't stopped working, which is a bit crazy.
And I try to stop working, but I haven't been able to stop being doing that.
And I've got Svia who is my daughter.
I call her like the little energizer bunny.
And I really want to be present for all that.
Do you know what I mean?
I'm the mom that wrestles her on the bed or pushes her around the house on the scooter.
And so I kind of didn't want to step away from doing those things with her.
I didn't want her to think that I'd gone away or a change because he's here or anything like that.
So yeah, I kind of haven't even stopped.
So this is actually having this chat with you is kind of like a nice break and also
lovely to chat with you at the same time.
Oh, you know what?
You are a phenomenal woman.
When I met you in Melbourne quite some time ago, I just walked away going,
I need some of Mo in my life.
I need some more of you in my life.
But I hope, you know, listening to you talk about you're mindful of,
you know, what you want to be present for your daughter.
I hope at the same time, you're gentle on yourself.
In those early days of being a parent, your hormones, you're not sleeping.
There's so much that is going on.
Please tell me that you're cutting yourself a little bit of slack.
And that's probably something I haven't done well as a new mum and somebody going through
postpartum like I've had like, it hasn't been an easy postpartum, like being completely honest.
It's been really rough.
I think for the first six weeks, there wasn't a day that went past that I didn't cry.
You know, I remember sitting in bed crying most nights.
It's not that there was something wrong or I was upset about having a baby or anything like that.
It's just emotions that you cannot control or describe once you have a baby.
And it's not everyone goes through it.
I'm assuming everyone has their own different story.
But for me, it was that I think one time, I can't remember what it was.
But I think I wasn't paying and like I didn't feed Ahi enough and I started crying.
So I was like, oh my God, I'm a bad mum.
You know what I mean?
It's a roller coaster, like honestly of emotions once you have a baby, once bubs out.
And I always thought the hard part was going to be the labour and that was pretty tough.
But the postbirth, it's mentally exhausting.
And I know that one thing I haven't done was take five minutes from me.
This week was meant to be my, you know, time for me,
which is where I was supposed to start training again.
And that was my me time.
And I haven't got around to that yet because every time I try,
I just haven't had the opportunity because, you know, the kids come first always.
Honestly, I want to sort of cuddle you up in a warm blanket
and give you a break in the sense that I listen to you talk.
And it brings me back to when my daughters were little.
I used to have that discussion with myself that I was a bad mum
because I really struggled to breastfeed.
And I remember thinking, oh my God, I can't even breastfeed my baby.
I must be a bad mum.
But can I do a bit of lecturing here?
I don't like to lecture and I used to never like it
when people would do this to me.
But you are not a bad mum.
You are a beautiful, good mum.
And you know what?
You are good enough.
And every part of your life, you are good enough.
And I really want you to go gently on yourself
because nothing, as you say, prepares you for that roller coaster of being a parent.
But the lack of sleep, the emotion,
the responsibility for this brand new soul, it's massive.
And I really want you, Mo, to banish bad out of your vocabulary.
You are good enough.
And I think as women, and I'm on the soapbox,
as women, we berate ourselves.
We always say we're not good enough.
We're bad because of this, this, this, and this crap.
That is nonsense.
You are a superhero in so many ways.
And I tell you what, your beautiful babies are so blessed to have you as their mum.
Now, I appreciate that.
And I honestly know that.
I think it took me, honestly, until probably the last two weeks
where his smile made me go, oh, my God, I got the happiest baby.
And that made me feel better.
But it's hard, though, right?
Even when he's awake and I'm trying to interact with him,
if there's a moment where I'm on my phone answering a call and a hang up,
I was like, oh, my God, you're a bad parent for being on your phone
where you're supposed to be interacting with your kid.
Like, there's so many things you go through,
and I'm sure you went through them as well as a mum that's just given birth.
There's so many emotions you go through, even with Svia.
I know Svia, once I brought Ahi home, wanted nothing to do with me for two weeks.
Wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't hug me, wouldn't kiss me.
And I'm normally her person, you know what I mean?
We always cuddle and kiss and hang out.
And she just didn't want to go near me or the baby.
And that broke me so much.
That was part of the thing that broke me.
And I always thought, oh, my God, your daughter hates you now.
So there's so many things you experience after you give birth
that nothing can prepare you for, no conversation you can prepare for.
But also, you don't hear a lot about it, right?
People don't talk about it.
They don't talk about anything else other than, you know,
you're pregnant, morning sickness, labour.
Oh, my God, the babysitter type thing.
There's no other conversation around what happens during the labour
or your postpartum stages.
And I guess there have been my challenges,
which are things I never expected to happen.
And I was quickly on the phone to my psychiatrist.
I see a psychiatrist and jumped on with her.
And I was just like, I need to talk about these things.
You know, I feel like I need to get these off my chest.
And I definitely felt much better having those conversations.
And then, you know, the recovery, it took me so long to recover.
I couldn't even walk for seven weeks.
So getting some fresh air wasn't even possible.
And that was another thing that was good for my mental health.
It's wonderful, too, to hear you talk openly
that you were talking to your psychiatrist,
because I think that's what we need to be doing, too.
Reaching out if we need help,
especially in those early days.
As you know, Mo, I'm a passionate advocate
for mental health awareness, especially postnatal depression,
having experienced it twice with my girls.
And I felt terrible shame during that time.
And I now realise there's nothing to be ashamed of.
It was simply an illness.
I think that needs to be said more.
I'm probably louder for the people in the back,
especially the women who are unsure, uncertain.
Everyone thinks that, you know, if you don't have a vaginal birth,
then is that normal?
Or if you have a C-section, then you didn't really give birth?
Or everyone keeps categorising these, you know,
moments for women that are their moments.
And however you want to parent, as long as your child is safe,
that's all that matters.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I personally choose to parent Ahi a certain way.
That's my choice.
And I know, like I say that,
because I was talking the other day on my Instagram
about how I walk Ahi around and get him to sleep.
And I had a mum message me and say that I'm conditioning him.
And I shouldn't be conditioning him,
just put him down and let him go.
And the thing is for me, it's like,
if that's how you parent your children,
then you do you as long as they're safe.
I support that because that's your choice.
That's your way you want to parent.
How I want to parent my child is my choice.
Don't tell me what to do.
You know, if you want to share your experience, go ahead.
But don't tell me how to do it or what I should be doing
and that I'm doing it wrong.
Because I'm very strong headed in what I do.
But I also think about the other mums,
this person might be messaging and saying that that's not right
or that's not normal.
And the mental strain that that will cause on that mum,
it could be a new mum.
It's not your place to tell someone how to parent their child.
If their child is safe, that's all that matters.
They're being loved and cared for.
Who cares how they put them down to sleep?
Who cares how they feed their child
or how they were brought into this earth?
That's their choice and that's their priority.
And I think that needs to be openly said more
so that there's not that extra pressure put on women
because there already is enough pressure put on women.
Don't need that, especially through something
that is life-changing for them.
You sing it, you share it.
And also too, I mean, you say there is so much pressure on women
and I think there's this added pressure that is put on mothers
because there's sort of this myth around being
what a good mother's meant to do and be and all of that.
And with you sharing your story and experiences,
you are making people feel like, you know what?
It's all right to do me and to be me.
And that's also something that I think is really special about you,
that you have always very unashamedly been true to who you are.
Yeah, well, that's just, I don't know any different.
And the thing is, when I talk to you about this,
you're like, hallelujah, or as if it's a big deal.
For me, it's just like, isn't that how it is?
Isn't that how it should be?
Whenever a woman tells me that they were ashamed
for having a C-section, I tell them that they're bloody amazing, right?
Because regardless, you grew a child and you birthed a child.
That end, you know, there's no comparing my vaginal birth to your C-section.
There's no comparison.
You did your thing, I did my thing.
So for me, I don't see any different.
And that's why I'm always like, this is how I feel.
It might not be how you feel, but I'm not going to tell you
that you're wrong because that's your experience and this is mine.
It's just always who I am and who I've been and I'll never change that.
Where did that strength of mind come from?
I'll tell you, it was one moment in life as a very small child
and it was my dad when he was on his deathbed.
And I remember vividly to this day that my dad had leukemia.
He died when I was 12.
We never knew it was leukemia.
We just thought he was sick.
And, you know, I dropped out of school in year seven
and to year 11 to be his full-time carer.
We moved out together.
I cared for him all the way up until literally the day he died.
But I remember there was the week of his death.
He knew he was going to die.
He must have been told he didn't tell us, didn't tell me.
He was calling in my older brothers and sisters into his room
and I just heard him crying.
And my dad never cried, ever.
He would never even showed emotion.
And I heard him crying and he was having all these regrets.
He was like, I'm sorry I didn't do this enough
and I'm sorry we didn't do this enough.
And I wasn't there enough.
He had a lot of regrets.
So many, you know, so many regrets and so many what ifs.
And I was sitting there as a 12-year-old kid listening to that
knowing that he was having those conversations.
Probably, I wasn't 100% sure why he was having those conversations
but after he died, I put it together.
And I thought to myself, whatever you do in life, don't be him.
Don't get to your deathbed and have a regret of,
you wish you hadn't done this
and you wish you could have been that person.
You just need to be you.
And if you get hit by a bus tomorrow, touch wood,
you die knowing that you lived a life fullest
of who you want to be and to your true self.
That was a thing I said to myself at the age of 12
and I've never broken it.
Like, this is me and you'll only ever get me
and I'll only ever tell you the truth.
That's all I can give you.
And it was that moment.
I don't even have to repeat it to myself in moments.
It's just who I am.
It's like whenever I do appearances or I go do talks,
when they send me questions, I tell them don't bother
because when I answer them, you're going to get me.
You're never going to get someone
that has pre-read that question
that's going to answer it in a certain way.
And that's just who I am.
What an extraordinary lesson
that you've been able to share with us.
But I'm so sorry that it came at the cost
of your beautiful dad's passing though.
Yeah, I guess so.
But I think that moment was horrible that he passed away.
But for me, you know, to hear that and to go through that
at that age of 12, I don't even know how I was able
to put that together and tell myself to never live
in that moment of fear of being you or doing something.
Literally led me to where I am today.
And like, you know, I got, you know, signed as a marquee
to Collingwood because of who I was.
And it just so happened that people like that.
And I was just like, well, I'm not trying
to be something different.
And it's so lovely that I'm able to have conversations
with people like you, who, you know,
you say you love my story, but that's just who I am.
It's not something that I've made up or I've, you know,
I'm giving you a persona.
And for me personally, it's nice knowing
that I can go to sleep being that person.
And let's talk more about your dad
and your connection with your dad.
I read a beautiful story about your wife, Bella,
and how she proposed to you.
It was quite an interesting scenario.
So when I met Belle, I actually had decided
I was just going to be single forever.
I had Vinnie, Vinnie is my special needs sister
who I'm full-time care of.
And I was just going to take care of her forever.
I would eventually have kids of my own and that's it.
And I was out one night at a birthday at a club
and Belle had just come back from India, modelling in India.
She'd never watched an AFLW game.
So she didn't, not that everyone knows who I am,
but it was nice to meet somebody
who had to ask me what my name was.
And I gave her a fake name, funny story.
I gave her a fake name on the night that I met her
because it was really nice for me.
What was the name?
Can I, what was the name?
Yeah, it was just Moesha.
That's not that different really.
Well, it was the quickest one I can come up with.
And it was, for me, it was a little bit funny.
And I didn't expect it to end up marrying the woman
having her the mother of my children.
But it works in times like this, right?
It's quite funny.
And I really got along with her that night
and she ended up messing with me the next day.
And I didn't expect it to be where it ended up being.
So I knew that when it started to get serious,
I always said to her,
I didn't think we'd get married,
but I hoped, but I didn't think we would.
But I just said to her,
if you're ever going to marry, you have to ask my dad first.
That would be, it was a childhood dream of mine, you know,
have to ask my dad and my mum's permission to marry me.
And she took that and decided to ask me to marry her
at the cemetery where my dad laid,
which for me was really, really, really thoughtful.
You know, she took that initiative
to include him in the moment somehow.
And I think that for me,
he was my most important person growing up
beside my mum and Vinnie.
So that was, it was quite beautiful.
And she knew, she obviously knew you so well
that that was what was going to matter most to you.
Yeah, that's the kind of person Val is.
And she's made me a better person, to be fair.
She's the most caring, kindest,
like most ridiculously good looking person I've ever met.
I mean, I look at your Instagram pictures of the two of you.
And if I was going to turn, let me just say,
hey, it would have been for you too.
You know, you're both just such,
I mean, not only you're amazing on the inside,
but you're both gorgeous.
Oh, thank you. Thank you.
Good camera angles.
You know what, we are beautiful.
We are beautiful in our own ways.
And I'm completely and absolutely in love with that woman
And how could you not?
I've got the personality to go with it.
I always say I'm the fun and she's the looks,
but yeah, she's my best friend.
Tell me a bit more about that relationship
because again, I look at your Instagram.
I look at those beautiful pictures of the two of you together.
And you can very much see that love and devotion
between the two of you.
Yeah, I could not picture my life without her.
And she's just been there for me
through some of the hardest times of my life.
And she's just been my comfort blanket,
but also my soulmate.
She just knows me inside out
and she just loves me wholeheartedly.
But yeah, she's pretty amazing.
And to share motherhood with her
has been an absolute dream.
Like, you know, watching her, you know,
breastfeed sphere and go through.
I just let her take the lead
and I just go, you're unbelievable.
I'll chip in when it's necessary.
Do you know what I mean?
Because she's such an amazing mom.
And to share that role with her is quite beautiful.
You're both amazing moms though.
Yeah, no, we are.
We make a really good team.
And, you know, again, I'm speaking really honestly,
having kids tested us as it does, right?
It tests your relationship.
And if I can get anyone advice out there
that is going to have kids,
it would be to make sure you still have a date night
once a week, because that's important.
Because when you have kids,
it becomes all about the kids.
And I think for us, for a little while,
we forgot about us,
just like I have myself personally through postpartum.
But, you know, we've had those patches,
but we always come back and we always go to each other,
And then we go, you know,
why we miss each other because we haven't made time.
And I think, you know, it just makes us stronger.
And making time, as you say, is so important.
Are you able to stick to the date nights though?
I find that's what my husband and I say,
let's do a date night, but we don't.
We sort of, I know we should,
but life seems to kind of get in the way
or the busy, boring stuff.
We do stick to date night.
So before little Ahi was born,
we would just order a whole heap of Uber Eats,
a lot of chocolate, food,
and watch whatever we felt like on Netflix.
And that's perfect for us.
Now that Ahi's here,
we have this really cute routine.
At six o'clock, we bath the kids
and then we split up and we go settle each child
and we get them down.
And then around about eight o'clock,
we both jump into bed together
and we watch an episode of something
and we eat chocolate.
And we talk to each other in that hour
and we're able to catch up.
And it's really nice.
It sounds simple,
but sometimes the simple things
are the things that matter the most.
because it's the stuff of life though.
It's about that connection and reconnection
as the two of you.
And in those moments when we're talking,
we will just laugh like idiots.
We'll talk about things
and then we'll watch our show and we'll cuddle.
And if you can't tell from the smile on my face,
they're like my favourite moments throughout the day
that are more important to me
than going out and spending four hours at a restaurant,
which would be nice as well
because I wouldn't mind a cocktail or two.
But it's really nice to finish my days like that.
Oh, it sounds like heaven.
Tell me now about Vinnie, your sister,
because of course you're like her mum really now, aren't you?
She calls you mum.
Yeah, she does call me mum.
So if people don't know who Vinnie is,
she's my special needs sister
and I've had it full-time care for about 10 years now.
So she was born with something called Mibius syndrome.
So basically the way that her specialist described it
is she's turning 30 next year,
but mental capacity of a small child.
So we cook for her.
We're still clean after it.
It took me about five, six years
to teach her how to dress herself.
So we're in the process of teaching
how to brush her teeth,
teaching her how to walk down to the bakery.
At the end of our street, that's something new.
So just, you know, little life development skills
that we're teaching her.
But yeah, in saying all of that,
she's very able and very, very cool person to be around.
When I talked about me earlier about being who I am,
I have Vinnie around me, right?
Who's very unapologetically her
and she never ever can be anybody else.
And I'll explain a scenario for you.
If you put 10 different people in front of her
from 10 different countries,
different skin colors, different backgrounds,
and you asked her what the difference of those people were,
she would tell you that, you know,
one's older, one's younger, or, you know,
one's, you know, male or one's female.
She doesn't see gender in the terms of, you know,
short hair means boy or long hair means girl,
or she doesn't see race.
She doesn't see any of that stuff.
You know, she just sees the person for who they are.
And it's quite beautiful because I took her out
for a birthday one time and I took her to a gay club
and there was a drag show on and the drag queen was amazing,
sung her happy birthday,
got the whole crowd to sing her happy birthday.
It was like the best moment of her life.
And I take her clubbing because you know what?
She's an adult and she's allowed
and she's just like anyone else.
And the next day she came into my room
and she said to me, I want to change my hair.
I was like, what do you want to do?
She goes, I just want to get it big and blonde
like the lady last night.
I'm like the lady who had big blonde hair
and I couldn't get it right.
She goes, the lady who's sung
and she meant the drag queen, right?
And I thought you are too good to be in this world, right?
Because she didn't look at that person and go,
you know, your hair looks fake.
You look too tall.
You've got too much makeup on.
You're definitely a drag queen.
You know, she didn't see any of that.
She just seen what represented as a lady.
And for me in that moment, I was like,
you know, I'm so glad that you are who you are.
I do not ever want society to change that
because you don't judge people,
which is really unique to find someone
who doesn't judge people, right?
Because that's just such a beautiful thing for her to be.
So to be around her constantly, it's such a nice thing.
And I heard you quoted as saying
that Vinnie is the most normal person you know.
Yeah, she is the most normal person I know
because she just needs the simple things in life
and that makes her happy.
She doesn't ever think she needs more or less
or she needs to look different or have the best thing
or have the coolest things to be any better.
That's my version of normal.
But also what she needs is love,
which is what you offer her and give her in space.
Love food on a table and a roof over her head.
And that's kind of how I grew up too,
if we go back to when we started this conversation.
So it's really nice that I have that
and she's really beautiful with the kids.
She has no filter
and I'll explain that.
So when you and I talk to kids
and I'm sure you do this, but I did this,
but you change your voice or your tone
and you talk to them in like a baby talk, right?
Everyone does it.
If you say you don't, you lie.
So she'll walk in and she'll say,
Ahi and she'll go, hi Ahi, how's your day?
And then if Ahi doesn't respond,
she'll go, he's not talking to me, right?
And she does the same with Svea or the dog.
It's so funny when you see her
having a conversation with the dog.
Like the dog will jump up on a chair
and she'll be patting it and it'll lick her.
She'll go, that's enough now.
And it'll lick her again.
She goes, I told you once, you need to give me space.
I'm just like, you know what?
Don't change you.
Listening to you describe all of that,
it does sound incredible,
but there still must be moments
where you think there is so much on my shoulders.
There is so much that I'm responsible for.
There's so many people's lives that I'm sort of juggling.
Are there times when you think
I want to walk away from this is too hard?
Yeah, it's a small driver to my anxiety, to be honest.
Because for me, I think, okay, so my job,
I have 118 people that work for me.
I work full time.
And if my job ever fell through,
how am I going to pay the rent that helps to take care of my family?
How am I going to put food on the table that feeds my family?
Because that's the one thing I dedicate my every waking second to
is the reason why I work 15 hour days
is to make sure that I always am there for my family,
alongside Bell, of course, because it's a partnership.
But absolutely, I think if my job fell through,
what are we going to do?
And yes, I can probably, yes, I'll work another job
with that fear of not being able to take care of it.
And also, sometimes I just want a break.
You know, and that's kind of why me and Bell ran away to Byron Bay last week.
Because I was just like, everything that's happening is too much.
My postpartum, you know,
Vinnie's going through a development stage of kind of like a teenager stage.
So she's being quite rebellious.
The kids, I just need, I need time for me.
I need to go away.
I need to chase the sun.
And I need to be in an ocean.
That's what I wanted.
So we literally booked flights, and we just left.
And I got all of that, which was so nice.
The sun, the ocean, and the me time, which was really nice.
So I do have those moments 100%.
I'm not going to sit here and say my life is amazing
and I've got everything I could dream of.
And I think it's really important that I'm honest with that
because I don't want it all to sound like rainbows and butterflies.
In terms of who then you turn to when it is hard, is it Bell?
It's always Bell.
Yeah, she's pretty amazing.
Like if I wake up in the morning and I just say, look,
I'm mentally, I'm challenged.
Like I feel like I'm having a little bit of anxiety.
She'll go, okay, I've got the kids.
Go, go for a walk, go for a run, go to a gym session
because they're my outlets.
That's my exercise is my one thing.
And I always feel more clear when I, once I finish it,
she was like, go do something or, you know,
do you want to sleep or go have a nap?
It doesn't matter what she's got on her plate.
She'll just do that.
And it's, that's another huge reason why I love that woman.
Oh, when you talk about your postpartum,
are you referring to the time after you've had your baby
or that you are experiencing some postnatal depression?
I would say, yeah, I'd say postpartum depression.
I've definitely experienced it.
And it's why I needed to reach out to my psychiatrist
because I wanted to make sure that mentally
I was getting that support because there was things
that I just felt like I wasn't good enough.
You know, my birth for me was very traumatic.
It was really something that I cried for days about.
It was really hard to deal with.
And I really needed to deal with that.
That was something that, you know, I'm still,
I think I've done really well by talking my way through it
and working my way through it, which has been amazing.
And I don't feel that, you know, that scariness
about it anymore, but that was really hard to deal with.
So I'd definitely say postpartum depression.
And do you think too, I mean, I'm sorry
that you had to go through such a traumatic birth.
Do you think part of that too is because of your,
I suppose being an athlete and thinking about performance
and how you perform under pressure, so to speak,
that almost what your body was letting you down,
even though it wasn't, but is that how you felt?
I think that mine was a little bit different to that.
I think for me, so for the birth, it was a 24-hour birth
or 25-hour birth.
And I didn't know the mental but physical side of it.
Like I'd never experienced pain like that.
And I don't want to scare women away
that's about to have birth or going to have birth
because I would go through that a hundred times over.
It means it gave me ahi at the end.
It is challenging.
It's really challenging.
I'll get the epidural after about 10 hours.
And then once we got to the 24, 25-hour mark,
the little guy's heart rate started to drop just suddenly.
And they called my obstetrician.
She was making her way in,
but they had to quickly try and make me push before she got in.
I never knew what was going on.
I had no idea what was happening.
I had no idea why it was in such a rush.
My obstetrician got in.
I pushed once for her and she was like,
no, we have to get him out real quick.
And in this moment, I was awake for 25 hours
going through the sabre.
I was in and out of consciousness.
I had no control over my body
or I couldn't even think about what was happening.
I couldn't, I didn't understand what was happening.
I just did whatever they said to do,
which was all great things.
Like they were there to support me.
And so the deep episionomy pulled him out
and he wasn't breathing.
So he wasn't breathing when they got him out.
They put him on me.
They always put him on the mum.
And then they wait to see if the baby comes through.
And I just felt like he's not moving.
And just straight away, I was like, nah, nah, take him, fix him.
And they worked on him for a couple of minutes
and they got him breathing again,
which I was just so grateful for.
But the things that I didn't know,
like I didn't, I wasn't prepared for that.
I was not prepared for him not to breathe.
I was not prepared for an episiotomy.
They did a met call twice for him.
So there was a lot of people rushing into the room
when he was born.
I'm normally a very personal person
and it didn't matter to me in this moment,
but post-birth it mattered to me.
But in that moment of about 15 people coming in,
I was in stirrups, completely naked, blood everywhere.
And I had all these 15 strangers coming into the room
to help save my son.
Wouldn't change that for the world,
but afterward that was very confronting for me.
Do you know what I mean?
And that's just because of who I am.
So for me, I kind of felt like,
why didn't I have the strength?
I should have had the strength to push harder
or to be more alert or be more awake to those moments
so that I could have been better
because if something had happened to him,
I think for me personally,
I would have probably blamed myself, right?
Because I felt like I could have been better
in those moments.
So there was a lot for me to digest.
And that is so much to sort of get your head around
and it's also that sense, I think,
of being gentle on yourself
and realising that you're not superhuman.
And I would imagine then too,
that then your relationship with your body changes
after you have a baby, doesn't it?
Oh my God, for the best.
It changes for the absolute best.
And I love myself way more now
than what I did before I gave birth.
And that's bizarre.
And Belle said that would happen.
I was like, I don't know what you mean.
And after you give birth, it changes you
and it changes you in a way that I can't describe.
You know, after I gave birth,
I was looking at myself going,
I'm a pretty amazing human.
I carried a child around for nine months.
My body is unbelievable.
I don't care what it looks like.
It's unbelievable.
And I used to care a lot.
I've never cared a lot.
And then I played AFLW
and I got told from one of my coaches that I was fat.
And then I was a little bit worried
about how I looked, which is bizarre for me
because I don't let anyone affect me.
But that thing doesn't bother me anymore at all.
I was in a bikini just last week in Byron Bay,
eight weeks after giving birth.
Do you think I care?
No, I think women should have a bikini on
regardless whether you have a baby
or don't have a baby
or what your body shape is because you're beautiful.
And this idea that women all have to look
a certain way to be labeled as beautiful
is ridiculous and stupid and made up
in the patriarchy days.
Women are beautiful in their own way,
every single one of them.
And you don't have to look like
what the magazines look like
for you to be categorized or looked at as beautiful.
When would you say you feel most beautiful?
I never question it, to be fair.
There's never a moment, I don't think, for me.
I wake up in the morning
and I look like a lion with my hair,
but I don't care.
I still think I'm amazing.
I don't need to look a certain way
to feel a certain way.
I do like getting dressed up,
but that's just because I like cool clothes.
But I think there's never a moment,
and especially when I have a wife like Belle,
she makes me feel beautiful no matter what.
And I think that's really nice.
And something I always say,
if I showed you photos of three men,
you're going to find one attractive
and I'm not going to find him attractive.
That does not make that man ugly.
It just means you're attracted to him and I'm not.
Just because somebody doesn't find someone attractive,
it does not automatically make them ugly.
It just means they're not attracted to you.
To someone else, they're beautiful.
Automatically calling women ugly
or telling them that they're not good looking
is just in your eyes.
It's not in someone else's.
And I really don't like that.
So everyone's beautiful in their own way
and somebody finds them beautiful.
How did you get so wise?
I don't know either.
Maybe it's just a childhood that I had
that had made me grow up very quick.
I just want to finish by asking you,
what would you say to that little girl
who grew up going to bed with a footy each night?
What would you tell her now?
I'd tell her nothing.
I'd tell her absolutely nothing.
And I wouldn't change a thing
because everything I've experienced in life,
whether it's hard, tough,
it made me who I am.
And it shaped me to who I am.
And even if I've made mistakes,
I've learned from them and that's most important.
So I would just say enjoy the roller coaster.
Mo, thank you so much for sharing
some of your roller coaster with us.
I'd like to come along for the ride too.
You are so welcome.
There is so much that we can learn from her.
I'm still blown away by how wise she is,
how together she is,
and just what a phenomenal kick-ass,
if I can say that, woman she is.
Now, if you'd like to join Mo
and some other famous women,
including international model,
and singer Amy Sheppard,
who are turning out the volume on body positivity
and shifting the self-love conversation,
head to bodfest.com.au
for either virtual or in-person tickets.
I love that you can get these tickets virtually.
It means no one needs to miss out.
Now, for more big conversations like this,
follow the Jessrow Big Talk Show podcast.
And while you're there,
I'd love for you to leave one of those beautiful,
big, sparkly reviews or share it with a friend.
Now, if you enjoyed this episode with Moana,
you might like my chat with Casey Donovan.
I think the biggest lesson is just to keep getting back up.
Keep teaching yourself new things.
Keep asking questions.
Keep moving forward.
And loving yourself is, I think,
the biggest thing you can do in life.
And it's never easy.
There are days that everything is hard and that's okay.
Yeah, just get back up and keep going.
The Jessrow Big Talk Show was presented by me, Jessrow.
Executive producer, Nick McClure.
Audio producer, Nikki Sitch.
Supervising producer, Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious
to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.