We know now that, you know, life is short and life is meant to be fun.
It's meant to be fun every day.
So are you happy or are you happy enough?
And sometimes you've got to ask yourself those hard questions.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
I don't know about you, but I really crave connected conversations, so I'm going to dig
deep to give you a new window into the souls of the people we're curious to get to know
There might be tears as well as laughter as we celebrate the real life flaws and vulnerabilities
that make us human.
Triple Olympian and wellness entrepreneur Lisa Curry has been in the public eye for
She's one of those Aussies you feel like you know.
She's recently released her memoir, aptly titled Lisa.
I loved reading it and I wept when she wrote about the death of her daughter, Jamie, from
a long-term eating disorder and associated mental health issues.
When I started this podcast, she was top of my wish list.
So I was really looking forward to talking to this remarkable woman.
I grew up watching you and I felt in a way almost I suppose connected with you because
I saw this beautiful, blonde, strong, incredible woman and I just had this incredible sense
of, oh my god, I want to be like her when I grow up and I think for many Aussies, you
were there for us in a strange way.
Do you ever feel that or did you sense that?
Well I know that I've been around a long time.
So I've been in the public eye for like 40 years and it's so funny now because sometimes
I'll walk into a shop and someone in the shop is like, oh my god, there's Lisa Curry and
I had this young man behind the counter and he was like, who, who's that?
And the girl next to him said, that's Jet Kenney's mum.
I'm like, yay, I'm Jet Kenney's mum.
But yeah, I have been around a long time.
Lots of people have different memories and I think, you know, depending on what I've
done in my life, people have been inspired in or motivated in completely different ways.
Because you do motivate people and what really strikes me about you, you're a determined
But you don't suffer fools and you've always stood up for what you believe in and spoken
out, haven't you?
Yes, sometimes I didn't.
I think it was when I made my first comeback to Auckland and I was a mum and I was determined
and I was committed to what I was doing and I didn't want to take any shit from anyone,
you know, and I just thought I'm on this mission.
Don't try and get in my way and don't try and distract me from what I believe I can
And there were people along the way, you know, who said, you know, you were too old and you
had kids and you couldn't do it.
And it was at that point where I thought, yeah, hang on a minute.
I actually have to stand up myself here and tell these people to stop putting those negative
thoughts around me because it wasn't me.
It was their perceptions of what I was doing.
So yeah, it hasn't always been like that.
You become a person that can stand up for yourself when you need to.
And how did you do that though?
Because I think, too, for a lot of women, especially mums, when your identity is suddenly
you are a mum and it can be hard to find yourself again, how then were you able to be very single-minded
about, no, this is what I need to do and I'm going to do it.
I'm going to carve out this time for myself and for my goals and dreams.
Yeah, well, that's exactly what it is.
You're the one that dreams about it every night.
You write it down every day.
You plan your progress every single day and then you don't get to that high.
You only get to here.
And so you've got to reevaluate everything and go back to the drawing board and speak
And you know, there's so many ups and downs.
It's not just about saying, I want to go to the Olympics.
You just don't go.
You know, there's a huge process that gets you from here to there.
And it's definitely not a straight line.
Like it's all over the shop, up and down and sideways.
And there were probably only a couple of times during my comebacks where I thought, oh, what
You know, because the reality was that I could have failed and not made it.
And then the press loved to say, you know, she failed.
She didn't make it.
So there was a lot of pressure that I put on myself to make it happen.
And I absolutely did not leave a stone unturned.
I did everything that I needed to do and did it 110%.
And it was really then that I started eating properly as well, you know, trying to find
the edge, trying to find every little thing that I could do to make me have the energy
that I needed to get through because recovery is such a huge part of any elite athletics.
When my coach, Mr. King, he said, Lisa, why do you continue pushing yourself?
You know, have an easy life.
Don't push so hard.
And I said, Mr. King, all I want to do is stand on the Olympic Dias.
It's all I want to do.
From a little girl at the age of 10, I just, you know, I saw myself there.
I saw it happening.
It was so real for me.
And probably on four or five occasions, I missed out by this much.
And when you miss out by this much, you know, you just think, well, I am one of the best
But, you know, coming fourth and fifth and sixth at three Olympics, it's a hard pill
to swallow sometimes because we were so close, even in my very, very last race at the Olympics.
You know, I was a mum.
I was 30, which is unheard of in swimming.
I had two little girls at home.
I was in the best shape of my life.
I swam just enough to get through, but we made the final in the medley relay.
And gosh, we missed the medal by, it was like 0.6 of a second.
You know, a bee's dick.
It's a small B. But, you know, the last race of my career, I just, I wanted it so badly
and I had to rely on others to get it.
And it didn't really go to plan, but, you know, actually, I was talking to Susie O'Neill
yesterday on radio.
It was so good to relive a couple of races that we swam against each other.
But that was when she was at the beginning of her career.
You psyched her out.
But the funny thing about that is I, because she was 16 and fast, I knew she was fast.
So I knew that I had to play with her a little bit.
So I let her go out hard.
And being 16 and inexperienced, I thought she's just going to go out way too hard and
And being 16, she didn't die in the end.
She kept going, little bugger.
And I only just got her at the end.
And it could have gone either way.
Had a good laugh about that because, you know, that was near the end of my career at the
beginning of her career.
And I had no idea that, you know, I inspired her in some way.
And she still keeps that little cat bag that I gave her when she was nine, when we're at
a swimming workshop.
So that was pretty cool.
I didn't know that.
I actually thought she probably didn't like me.
She's kind of quiet, Susie, and she's got this really dry sense of humor.
I just had this feeling that she didn't particularly like me.
That's not the case.
So it's nice to finally put that to bed.
And I mean, you do inspire so many people, Lisa.
And for me, what I really liked when you were writing about the sense of when you're I think
about 16 or so, you listen to a motivational speaker who said, you've got to do the work.
You have to do the work.
That was a real revelation for you, because a lot of people just imagine it happens.
You wish it, you dream it, you want it.
Yep, it'll happen.
But it's not the case, is it?
No, that was after the 1978 Commonwealth Games where I came fourth in my individual race.
And I paid $30 to go and see Dr. Dennis Waitley, who had written a book called The Psychology
I don't even know how I knew he was speaking, but I went along on my own.
And you know, as a 16 year old, I paid my $30 and I walked away with one lesson.
And it's the same when I speak today when I'm on stage, I said, you might take out one
thing from my speech and apply it to your life and your life can change.
And that's what happens.
But that one lesson was, if I wanted to be better, if I wanted to stand on the dice and
be successful, I had to depend on myself.
So three words, depend on myself.
And so after that, I asked my mom if she could drop me at the pool half an hour earlier and
pick me up half an hour later.
And what that did is it gave me that extra hour just to be with my coach, Mr. King, because
Like he was, he was like a dad to me.
And we just had really interesting conversations and really wasn't about swimming.
But he used to stand there and tell me to close my eyes and think about winning and
think about seeing myself on the dice, seeing myself, you know, touching the wall first
and looking around.
He really taught me how to visualize my races.
And it's a really big part of sport when you are able to visualize your race.
I used to sit in bed and with a stopwatch and I used to close my eyes, dive off the
block, push the stopwatch and then swim the race in my mind, touch the wall, press the
And the time would be exactly, you know, what I could do.
What I wanted to do was on my list of goals.
So it's a really big part, Mr. King taught me all of that.
I have to talk to you about this stopwatch.
Where on earth did you get that discipline and focus to lie in bed and do that?
I mean, I think of myself as a teenager and I was all over the shop.
There was no way I had that single minded determination that this is what I needed to
This was what I was going to do.
Where did that come from, Lisa?
It's funny you say that because my best friend from school, but she used to say the same
You know, they'd all be going out and come on, Lisa, come on.
And I even sleepovers at school.
I wouldn't go because I was just, I have to do this.
But you have to remember too that, you know, you get up in the morning, you go training
for two hours, you go to school all day.
Mum would pick me up from school, take me back to training.
I'd get home at six thirty at night, eat dinner and basically go to bed because you're so
Like to even think about going out and I mean, I just, I guess I was kind of boring too.
I kind of didn't have a social life and I was probably a bit boring and a bit of a nerd
and a goody two shoes, all that sort of thing.
And no, I was just, I just wanted to be the best that I could.
You were so striking on the pool deck and I mean, you still are an incredibly striking
And I love that that's what our bodies can do as women.
Did you ever find that it was difficult for you or that people would give you a difficult
time because of your body shape?
Yeah, particularly in the 70s and 80s, people are stopping, oh, is that a boy or a girl?
You know, because I had short hair and I, yeah, look, I've always had big shoulders.
I always had no boobs and I always had no bum or hips.
So even pictures of me as a little kid, I was shaped like that.
So probably looked a bit like a tomboy, but there was a couple of occasions where people
would call me names or, but I think, you know, some people really take that to heart, but
it didn't particularly bother me.
I know I cried once and left the pool and in a bit of a huff, Mr. King came and got
me, but apart from that, I don't know, I just didn't let it bother me.
Some things bother people, some things don't, you know, things happened to me in my life
and I just let it roll off my back, my big back, my big shoulders.
Those beautiful, big, strong shoulders and another.
But they're still big, they're still big shoulders.
Like that's my bones.
It's just your body shape.
You know, I always had wide shoulders, maybe because I knew that the world was going to
be on my shoulders at some point and I had to hold up all these things that I was doing.
Well, let's talk about that.
Let's talk about the world and those big, broad, strong shoulders of yours, Lisa, because
you have endured so much and I hope you don't mind, but I would love to talk a little bit
I want to thank you.
You say in your book that you felt that were you perhaps oversharing too much?
I don't think you can overshare too much when we talk about mental illness.
My mum has got bipolar disorder.
She's still alive, but there have been many times when I've battled the hospital system
to get her to stay in hospital and it can be very, very hard when you see someone you
love suffering in a way and you feel so helpless.
So I think by you sharing the terrible time that your family has had to go through, it
does make a difference.
I hope you know that.
I think I'm starting to know that now.
My email inbox is full of people who have been kind enough to send me emails to thank
me because it's helped them or thank me because it's helped their child.
I wasn't sure if I was oversharing in the book.
I wanted to honour and respect Jamie and not tell everything, but enough for people to
understand what it's like having someone struggling with those issues every single day.
The last couple of chapters were incredibly difficult to write and when I wrote them,
I gave the manuscript to Grant and I said, here, have a read of this and make sure you're
okay with what I'm saying and he couldn't even look at it.
He couldn't read it.
He's still not in a space at all, but at least I've got to the point where I can kind of
talk about it, but he can't and he didn't.
So I gave it to his sister to read and she said it was okay and Jamie would be proud
of those words, but it was so hard and I thought I was oversharing, but I think now that maybe
I could have expanded a little bit more only because people have got so much out of it.
So yeah, there's so much in it and as you said, the hospital system is, I don't know,
there's a hole, there's a gap somewhere and there were times when Jamie was really sick
and the hospital would send her home and say, everything's normal and I'd say, which part
of this is normal, you know, and I lost it one day in emergency because I was tired of
them sending her home because she was so sick and like rehab wouldn't take her anymore because
they said she was too sick and they couldn't look after her.
So there was nowhere for the poor kid to go.
I've got some of Jamie's friends, one has recovered, one was, you know, she was knocking
on death's door, but she's come through and she's recovered and another friend of Jamie's
is still struggling every single day and you know, she stays in contact with me because
it was Jamie who encouraged her to go into rehab and then there's Jamie who didn't, she
just couldn't get through, so you can see all these different people in all these different
situations and some people make it, some people don't and the hospital systems and psychologists
and psychiatrists may be great for some people, but for some people they don't make a difference
and I don't know, I just find it really hard to work out what we missed.
We must have missed something, you know, or I don't know, it's just still really raw
because especially the last year and a half where I've been trying to write and days when
I couldn't write, I couldn't speak, I couldn't even get out of bed, I didn't want to.
Some of these interviews I dreaded, I felt sick, I can't sleep because I don't want
to relive it, but it makes it easier to know that it is helping people and that's what
pushes me to talk a little bit more about it.
It does help people and I wish I could give you the biggest hug.
I almost feel like I would love you to be gentler on yourself.
Sometimes we can do everything, everything, and it still isn't enough so to speak.
To me, you did all that you possibly could and sometimes it's awful what then happens,
but I hope you can somehow have some sense of you did all you could and I know that that
probably sounds hollow coming from me, but we do need to be gentler on ourselves and
I think as parents, you would take their pain in an instant.
You would do all of it and more, which is what you did and would have continued to do.
I mean, you spoke about wanting to commit a crime so you could be locked up with your
daughter and keep her safe.
I mean, that's how far you were willing to go and more.
How desperate we were.
Sometimes I just, I don't know, I'm trying to look after myself, but I have business
to run and I have staff and I have people who rely on me and I have my family and my
grandsons and you keep on going and yet in the last five years, the last five years which
were particularly hard, you put on a happy face, you keep getting up, you keep doing
what you do, you know, I speak on the circuit and you stay inspiring and motivating and
then walk out and fall in a heap, you know, just it's hard to keep that strong face on
and I think it's, I don't know, people say, oh, you're so brave, you're so strong.
I don't feel it at all.
I just, I don't know, I'm crying mess half the time.
I'm a bit of a crybaby over anything.
But there's nothing wrong with a good cry.
You've got to let it out and you raised a really good point there, Lisa, when you talk
about where are you now in the mix that very much your life, what you've done for people
over the years, your work with Fernwood helping women reclaim themselves and their lives
was all about self-care, how they can look after themselves and you need to find some
of you now, how you can look after you, don't you?
Yeah, I need to start walking my talk.
Self-care is a huge part of my business.
We have over 500,000 women who we talk to every single day.
We have amazing Facebook groups, ladies share, they vent, they cry, they complain, they whatever.
We've got people there to help them and it is part of my life.
I think I've just got to start practicing what I preach, but it's so hard because you
have to be ready and I don't think I'm ready.
We live on this beautiful property here, 64 acres and I've got the best gym set up, but
I can't even walk in there and yet the gym was so much part of my life, but I'm not ready
yet and I think the first 30 years of my life was spent swimming and growing up.
The next 30 years of my life was family and business and what does the next 30 years hold
A couple of people that we've known lately are in their early 60s and they've passed
away and Mark said, you know, what's going on?
These people are not getting to live the rest of their life, let's just take off and just
have fun ourselves.
I know he's right and I've got to start looking after myself, so maybe I should just start
listening to myself speak and practice what I preach.
Which is often easier said than done.
Now you've mentioned Mark a few times and I know he's sitting there near you.
I want to know about finding love again, finding love later in life.
For a lot of women who may be listening, who'll be thinking, oh I'm on my own again, am I
ever going to find my person?
How do you do it and what's it like?
You know, I used to think that if you wanted to meet someone, like if you like the gym,
you'll go to the gym, you'll meet someone at the gym, so you'll meet someone like you.
But when Mark and I met, it was very coincidentally, we're quite different, but we're complementary.
And sometimes you don't have to look for someone who's the same as you, because then it's the
same, same, same, same, same stuff.
We're so different.
We do, I do all his things and he comes all my things and there's all these different
things happening in our lives that come together for, you know, the joy that we have together.
And so for my little piece of advice to people would be don't, you know, don't necessarily
look for someone who's the same as you, because you might find someone completely different.
And I think sometimes it just happens, don't try and force it to happen, but also you have
to be open for a relationship.
And I remember those stunning wedding photos of yours, I remember seeing in some of the
magazines and I was wondering as well how you feel about those mags, because I know
over the years the paparazzi have been pretty, pretty tough and been hiding from you and
leaping out of bushes and really waiting.
And that's pretty hard thing, I think, to deal with day in, day out, isn't it?
Yeah, that all started when Grant and I separated basically and they, yeah, they were hiding
I was on the beach one day and this lady came up to me and she said, excuse me, I just thought
I'd let you know there's a man up there in the bushes taking photos of you.
I was like, what?
I was looking around everywhere and you don't see them.
Even when my mum passed away last month, Mark and I went to the funeral place and the next
couple of days there were photos of us there.
Like we didn't even know.
What it is, it's a bit creepy because you don't know where they're hiding, you don't
know what they're getting photos of and then all of a sudden you see yourself either in
a magazine or the Daily Mail and you think, how did they get that photo?
It's been a funny part of my life because I never thought I was the sort of person or
famous enough for paparazzi to even bother with, you know, I was just me.
People who know me, this is me, I'm just normal.
But for somehow they, I don't know, I had one of the editors call me once from one of
the magazines and they said, you sell magazines.
Pass me on some of the profits at least, you know, if you're going to sell millions of
magazines, but no, they just, you know, they just write whatever they like.
So how do you reconcile that?
I mean, you know, as you say, you sell magazines.
People are very interested in you and your family and feel very connected to you, but
it is also invasive and awful when they publish nonsense, when a lot of it is made up.
Well, you know, I have to be realistic about this and I put myself out into the public.
So you have to expect the public backlash when it comes.
But there are times when it's just rubbish what they write, really.
But that's why also I love my book because it's in my words.
I own every word in that book and I take responsibility for every action, every consequence.
And it's my life and they can't, you know, I know now they're even picking out little
bits and pieces and then they put their own spin to it.
It's like, oh, you know, that's, it's just not how it happened.
That's why, you know, with the book, you read it from the front to the end.
Because everything's in context.
People go in and they pick out one bit and then they try and make up a story around that
Whereas the story is told, but I haven't read it, you know, it's kind of frustrating.
It is, it must be so frustrating.
It is a great read, your book, Lisa.
I enjoyed it and read it over two days.
I couldn't put it down.
There's so much in there.
And obviously, too, you talk in there about your marriage to Grant.
I mean, you were married, what was it, for 23 years?
And I think, too, when you both split up, there was very much a sense for a lot of people,
oh my goodness, they're the golden couple.
How could that possibly, how could they split?
That was a really hard chapter to write.
It was really hard because we're still really good friends.
So to try and explain why when you're still good friends and still have love for each other,
why you can't be together, it's a difficult conversation.
But, you know, he's happy.
He's happy doing what he's doing.
I wasn't sure whether he wanted to see the book or read the book.
He watched Australian Story and said it was great.
And I said, oh, do you want to read the book?
And he goes, yeah, of course I do.
I went, oh, okay.
So I'll drop over a copy and see what he thinks.
There's probably a few things in there he probably doesn't want to read, but oh well.
Yeah, I guess it was a surprise for a lot of people.
It's interesting because someone else that I was reading parts to said after I'd read it,
after listening to you read that passage, they said I should have left my part seven years ago.
Because sometimes you stay in a relationship for the wrong reasons.
And you put up with things or, you know, you stay there for the kids
and you're bloody well not happy.
So we know now that, you know, life is short and life is meant to be fun.
It's meant to be fun every day.
So are you happy or are you happy enough?
And sometimes you've got to ask yourself those hard questions.
And these are the sorts of conversations that Grant and I had.
And we talked about the things that we wanted to do where we saw ourselves in the future.
And we decided we were better off not being together.
And as hard as that was, that was the reality of it.
So it was a very, well, sad but amicable split for sure.
And as you say, it's those hard conversations.
And I think all power to you, Lisa, because you had that hard conversation.
You write about it.
And that, I think, as you've recounted that story,
empowers other women and men to perhaps think, well, where am I at in my life now?
Am I living my life the way I want to?
I've got limited time.
Am I making it count and matter now?
I could say to Mark now, can we go out,
we'll take the combine, we'll go camp somewhere tonight and go, yeah, let's do it.
Because that's what I love.
I much prefer to be under the million stars, not six star hotels.
I've seen that many hotels in my life.
They don't do anything for me.
I would rather be sitting under the stars with a glass of wine just looking up going, wow,
And that's why we actually called our property Marley,
which is the combination of Mark and Lisa, a million star retreat.
Because when we have people to come over and stay,
you sit around the campfire and there's no lights out here and you look up
and you're very small in this universe.
We've had some life-changing experiences here on the property
when we've held our retreats with people.
So we've built a little meditation area in our forest.
And I go through and we do a passion test.
Well, I talk to them about several different things.
Then we write down what's important to us in our lives.
And I play some beautiful music and it's kind of like just a workshop.
And it comes out the other end where everyone has to volunteer
what's important to them in their life.
And what is it that they're missing?
What is it they really want to do?
And sometimes when they do that, they just go, wow,
I'm actually not doing what I want to do.
I have to make some changes.
I actually hate my job.
I don't want this life.
I want this life.
And it's kind of a light bulb moment for them.
It's really beautiful.
It sounds just extraordinary.
But it also makes me think too, Lisa,
that you need someone to do a passion test for you.
I did it not too long ago.
And I did it myself.
And it's exactly what I know I need to do.
Just waiting for the opportunity to actually go and do it.
Because it's my birthday next week,
I don't want to have a birthday.
I want to have a birthday year.
So it's all about having some new adventures
and a bit of soul searching, I guess,
but just to settle down a little bit and get that self-care back.
And self-care, top of the list.
And that notion of having a year of birthday celebrations.
What I just want to finish by asking you about is your legacy.
I saw in the Australian story
where you were going through boxes of your medals,
that very first medal that you ever won.
And then you have all these other medals in organized
in these Ziploc bags, all sorts of things.
And a treasure trove.
Do you hope your kids will go through it as they get older?
What would you like to happen with those memories?
And what do you want your legacy to be?
My kids, I'm quite certain,
want nothing to do with all those medals.
They couldn't care less.
I don't know what to do with all my stuff
because I'm fairly certain my kids won't have room for it for a start.
Because you've got to remember, I had a very long career.
And so did Grant.
We have a lot of memorabilia, a lot of track suits,
Olympic uniforms and plaques and certificates and medals.
And I don't know what you do with all that stuff.
I say to Mark, oh, I think I might throw this out.
He goes, no, no, don't throw that out.
So he started this little Lisa corner in his man cave.
Oh, he's a keeper, isn't he?
Look, he did my hair for me.
Oh, it's gorgeous.
He's done your hair.
He's done your lashes, Lisa.
You know, you share so much of yourself.
And I thank you for sharing so much of yourself, Lisa.
As I've said, your book is just beautiful.
It was life-affirming.
It was inspiring.
Thank you for sharing so much of your life with us
because it makes us so much richer.
Thank you so much.
The finished book looks beautiful.
I only got my first copy last week.
So seeing it go through all the different stages
and then finally getting it in your hands, it's amazing.
And the people who have read it,
they're all saying the same thing,
that they can't put it down.
So, hey, why don't you read it?
He hasn't read it yet.
So Mark hasn't read it yet.
No, he's heard Bits and Pieces
and he's read Bits and Pieces, but not all of it.
No, I only approved our chapter.
I thought I'd better read this and see what's going on.
But I'm a bit scared.
I mean, Mark, please, you have to tell me.
I mean, what made you fall in love with Lisa?
Oh, you know, I actually warned Lisa.
She made the move, by the way.
And she said, I want to come down to Melbourne to see her.
And I actually warned her
because I was in a dark place at the time.
And I said, Lisa, I don't want to hurt you.
And we had a couple of dates
and then she came back the following week
and it was all harsh, harsh.
And then my heart started hurting
and I just fell in love and that was it.
And I just had to see her every day.
We actually spoke on the phone before we met
for a whole month.
We were confiding in each other
because we were both in the same situation.
We were both, you know, just alone.
And yeah, I was just selling some combi parts
on a Facebook group page.
And Lisa put her hand up.
She goes, oh, yeah, I'll have one of those.
And then I just messaged her and said,
oh, how are you going, by the way?
You know, I didn't even have her number.
So I said, oh, can I have your number?
And she goes, oh, just wait till I've stopped crying.
And then after 10 minutes, I said, is it 10 minutes yet?
You still owe me for that combi part too.
I know, but we went together then.
So I charged you for it.
I actually gave her a car for her birthday,
for her 60th birthday.
I bought her a little classic car.
So I've made up for that.
Oh, he is a romantic.
You wrote about that, Lisa.
And he is a romantic, isn't he?
At the book launch last night at Caloundra,
we had a lovely crowd there.
And it was a Q&A.
And I was asked what kind of guy is Mark?
I said, you know, he's kind and he's caring
and he's romantic.
I said, and he's a good kisser.
And my daughter just went, oh, no.
How embarrassing.
The talk about oversharing.
That was really oversharing.
Be flattered, Mark.
And just one last thing, Mark, just to ask you,
did you ever get intimidated by Lisa?
She is quite a force of nature, I reckon.
Like Lisa's very busy and she's very driven.
And she's a leader, but I was also a leader as well.
So we kind of clashed.
We had to work out the happy medium between us
because we did buttheads for a while,
you know, developing our property and things like that.
But I think now we've really, we understand each other.
I couldn't give a shit.
Yeah, we do do things differently,
but we end up at the same place at the end, you know,
but we think differently.
The process to get to the same thing is different for us.
I don't feel intimidated by you.
No, I have my say as well.
And yeah, it's good.
I think we're a good team.
We're a good match.
Oh, you're a wonderful match.
And it's just lovely to see both of your beautiful faces there.
And again, thank you for sharing with me.
I'm just so very grateful, Lisa,
because I'm a massive fan of yours
and I think you're an extraordinary woman.
So thank you for all that you've done.
Really nice chatting to you.
You're wonderful.
It was such a treat and an honour to finally talk to Lisa.
She has lived a life.
And what I just find so remarkable and so very special about her
is that she's still determined to make sure
that she lives the rest of her life.
Although, as she says, she's stuck at the moment.
She wants to make the most of every moment.
She wants to make it count.
And I hope for all of you listening, you get a sense of that
and that we can draw from some of Lisa's courage
and just remarkableness, if there is such a word,
to really try and put that into how we approach every day of our life.
Just remember, if you want more big conversations like this,
search the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show podcast.
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So if you're not following me already,
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share the words, sing it from the rooftops.
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You know I love talking to you.
But my wonderful producer, Nick, is looking at me.
She's going, there's people waiting for the studio.
The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me, Jess Rowe.
Executive producer, Nick McClure.
Audio producer, Nikki Sitch.
Supervising producer, Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious
to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.