Well, I've said things I shouldn't.
I haven't said it and instantly thought, oh, I shouldn't have said that.
There's been regret.
There's also been things that I've said that I can genuinely put down to being uneducated
or just not anything I've ever learnt about.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
I've had a rollercoaster of a time chatting with Carl Sanderlands.
In the first part of our interview, you heard a softer side to Kyle.
Fatherhood has brought a level of contentment for him that wasn't there before.
Now in the second part of our interview, we talk about regret, career rock bottoms and
how challenging it is for Kyle to be comfortable with the softer sides to his personality when
he feels people have a go at him for being vulnerable.
We recorded our conversation at King Kyle headquarters, so you will hear some extra
conversation in the background.
Now this episode includes some colourful language and drug references.
And when I say colourful language, I do mean very colourful.
Kyle uses the C word.
This is a word I do not like.
I lecture Kyle about this.
We have a discussion about it and that is why I've decided to keep it in.
I don't like the word.
If you hear it coming, you can put your hands over your ears too, but we did think the
discussion is worth keeping in there.
We also touch on domestic violence, so please reach out to 1-800-RESPECT if you do need
Talking about when you were younger, and I know that you've written about the difficult
relationship you had had with your dad.
Before he passed?
Well, the main bad part of the dad situation was I was so young when him and mum were battling
and, you know, domestic violence and then my memory was only the worst of the worst.
And I didn't have any memories of any of the good times because as a kid, I think you remember
those big spikes as traumas.
And then I was with mum and then, like, I think that's why I'm quite soft with women
because, like, people might think, what?
But in face-to-face, that's me because I saw the pain mum went through.
And then she got remarried to another guy who was way older and he was quite strict
and a bit violent with me and my brother, but never touched her.
And I thought, I'm fine with that because I saw her get hurt so much.
I was happy to cop it so long as she wasn't copying it.
Weird, but, you know, I was still young, didn't really know what's right and wrong.
And then I didn't drink my whole life because I saw, oh, my dad was drinking
and that was what made him like that, blah, blah, blah.
So these are just stupid childhood things that drag through your mind.
And I'm just very soft, soft, soft, soft with girls.
If a girl starts crying, like, I'm just going to start crying.
And this has always been how I am.
So I think that's obviously triggers or emotional triggers or whatever, you know,
you and your doctors know what they're called.
I just think it's pussy behaviour.
It's not. But that's what I call it.
Yes. I know it's not.
And as I get older, I'm realising you can be all things.
You don't just have to be one harsh, crusty thing.
You can be everything that you are.
And I did hide it.
Because anger is often pain and fear.
You know, you disguise it as anger and acting out and being sort of invincible.
Yes, yes. But it's really because you're masking that pain.
The pussiness of yourself.
You keep looking at me with these jugging eyes when I say pussy.
Because you know why?
Yes, I'll tell you, you are so influential.
You have such a successful show.
You're an amazing broadcaster.
And people listen to you and many young people listen to you,
and especially young men.
And we need, when I think about my daughters who are teenagers
and some of their interactions with young men,
we need to empower young men to say, own your pussiness.
Yeah, grab that pussy with both hands.
No, sorry. No, I know what you're saying.
I'm trying to be funny.
Own your vulnerability.
And it's OK to be in touch with your emotion.
Because I think that is what has gone wrong with a lot of young men.
And they listen to you.
And that's why I know...
But I think that I do push the barrow of respect to women.
Sometimes we have a radio, on our radio show, we say ring up
and I'll decide whether you're disgusting and fat based on just your voice.
Now, this is a fun game.
It's how people go, oh, my God, he called that woman fat and horrid.
People ring up, they know what they're ringing up for.
So a lot of what, you know, the harshness is like the outer skin of the onion
that's not sort of in doing, having the fun that we're having on the daily basis.
So, you know, I'll be so surprised.
I'll meet like an 80 year old Mossman mum and she'll be like,
Carl, I've listened to you for 40 years.
Or, you know, there could be like some skatey guy from Mount Druitt
or some islander bloke on the door of a nightclub.
They're all listening.
It's just really surprising.
There isn't a particular type of person, but I am always surprised.
Like if someone says something bad about me on the project, right,
then I'll be like, I think this guy's an idiot.
He doesn't realise what I really do.
And I'm surprised.
But obviously, you know, that's a little bit of a love me.
Like, why doesn't everyone know what I do?
Why isn't everyone listening to the radio?
But I know what I'm like.
So I think that I used to be very harsh.
You've got a producer here, Nick, who I knew 20 years ago
and has worked with me several times.
We've worked together over the years.
She's met a very different Kyle into the year 2000
than I am sitting across from you guys today.
Completely different person.
But I came into Sydney like, whoa, I've been offered this huge job.
I never thought in a million years I'd get in Sydney.
I thought I'd get to the Gold Coast if I was lucky.
And then I was on this big national show and I was hacking my dacks.
And that, for want of a better phrase, I was petrified.
These people were an established team.
They all had their nicknames for each other and everything.
And I was like, oh, my God, there's Jackie O.
And then I was horrible on the radio.
I was like, the first three days, I was a disaster.
And Jackie was like, oh, he's not going to make it, this guy.
And I just pulled it together on the fourth day.
Somehow went from knowing nothing to every single thing I need to know in one day.
So Nick, you would have seen me grow over the years.
Sorry to bring it to the third.
I know it's your show, Jessica.
No, I'm with you with Nick.
She's amazing. She's amazing.
I'm not going to ask you because you might not give me the answer I want.
But anyway, she's seen me grow.
Oh, no, she would definitely say she's nodding.
Because we were all different people back then.
Jackie was only half a size.
Oh, that's nasty and unnecessary.
Well, is it unnecessary? It is unnecessary.
So I'm going to expose myself, but we just hide everyone else's faults.
No, we all have faults, but it's how you talk about it.
And you're too good at this.
No. Well, thank you.
But you were talking about how widespread your audience is.
Yes. Again, getting back to that means there's a responsibility
with what you say, a power.
And why not look at harnessing that power?
What do you want me to become some Dr. Phil type of...
What do you want? What is this all about?
I feel like I've been tricked in here to have my personality changed.
No. You know what it's about?
It's not at all about that.
It's to let people hear a different side to you.
Right. OK, well, that's cool.
Because you're saying...
But you keep pushing this, but you know, you need to be...
What do you think I need? What do I need to do?
I think you keep doing you,
but be open to that vulnerable side of you,
that I know you have this incredible generosity of heart
and this soft underbelly, and you...
But I don't want to tell everyone, oh, look what I did.
Oh, I helped this person. Oh, look how good I am.
I think that's a wanker. No, no, no.
But I'm not saying to do that at all. It's more.
And as you were saying, you've changed a lot already.
But don't be afraid to change more.
Listen to this. Here's an example.
This is... Perhaps be in touch with who you are.
I've tried this. I'm not opposed to it.
But every time I try and put myself out there,
like, you know, Are You OK, Dave, for example, right?
Everyone in the media get behind it.
It's a wonderful thing.
I think it should have been done decades ago.
I said something on the radio, on my radio show,
about, you know, Are You OK? And blah, blah, blah, blah.
I really did pull something out I wouldn't normally on the show.
I can't remember exactly word for word what it was,
but it was an emotional thing.
And then the next day, the newspaper dissed me for saying it.
And I was like, wow.
On Are You OK, Dave, I brought up somebody vulnerable
about myself and the newspaper,
because that particular journalist didn't like me
over the years or whatever, probably justifiable,
had a go at me about it and suggested that it wasn't even real.
And I was like, wow.
The one time I pull it out, someone challenges it.
I'm going to put it back in.
Now, that was the wrong thing to think.
I should have ignored what they said because that's their problem,
not mine, and run with that.
But it is hard sometimes, especially in the public eye.
I always used to think that the news, if you saw it on the news
or you read it in the newspaper, that's the fact.
No ifs or buts, it's in the newspaper.
And it was only when I got into the media,
I realised 98% of it is rubbish.
Nothing to do with facts.
It's just what the person writing wants you to think.
That still happens.
Even on the television news, that can happen.
It's whoever's compiling the story put a spin on it.
It's like watching a documentary.
People go, have you watched that documentary?
And I'm like, it's really what the director
of the documentary wanted you to think.
Like when you work in the business, you realise,
oh, it's not as black and white as you think.
It is full of greys and shades
and you've got to find your own way.
So when I have gone to be vulnerable,
sometimes it's backfired,
but it's really not an excuse to just keep myself locked up.
It should really encourage me to dribble it out
a little bit more and be a little bit more comfortable
with some of those softer sides of my personality.
And it's interesting hearing you say
the impact that just one article had on you.
Isn't it bizarre how we will focus on the negative.
Like someone having a go at you
and there would have been so many people
touched by what you said.
Yeah, but when it's your name and you think, what?
But it is, and it's silly.
And that's what you hold on to.
I think it's human nature,
because I can read an article about like Guy Sebastian
and he'll be like, oh my God, this thing thing.
And it affects him way more
because it's his photo and it's his name
and it's a story about him where I go,
oh, I didn't think bad about that guy.
But then the same thing, if I read a story about me,
I would think, oh, everyone thinks this,
but it just seems worse when it's your own name
and your own photo and it's not true.
It's very difficult to get over.
There's so many of them now.
I just think I haven't got time in my day
to counteract all the falsities.
And I don't even really care.
But that's the key, I think.
I mean, the thing is, deep down, we still do care.
It's hard not to fall into a bit of-
I'd prefer if they all said lovely things.
Yeah, but what I've tried to do over time
is to think about, you know, those who matter,
Yeah, and that's all that matters.
That is really, who cares what the woman next door
or the lady next door or the man over the road thinks?
It doesn't really matter.
If you upset those closest to you,
that's when I reckon it's like, no,
that's, haven't behaved the right way there.
You're never gonna make everyone happy all the time.
That's exactly what I tell people.
Even new singing artists and stuff like that,
they come in, they're all gonna be in a bonnet over something.
And I go, don't worry about that, guys.
I said, like, pick three people
that you think everyone in the world loves
that no one hates.
There's no hate sites.
And they go, Beyonce, Jesus, and Ronald McDonald.
Click, click, click, click.
All three of those people have dozens of websites
dedicated to hating them.
Beyonce, Jesus, and Ronald McDonald.
There is no one that everyone loves.
You just do your best.
My motto is, just don't be a cunt.
I hate it, and you know what?
Oh, don't edit it out.
Oh, jeez, oh, I've ruined the, oh, no,
I thought this was going so well.
No, no, no, we won't.
I was really getting a vibe.
No, we won't, we won't.
I couldn't be vulnerable.
No, but you know what?
It's just, you say that word,
my daughters say that word,
and I get so cross with them.
Well, just calm down.
It's just a word.
It's just a word.
It's a terrible word.
It's a terrible word for something,
and this, and my daughter's role.
Here we go, something so special.
I've seen a million of them,
they're not all that special.
And I just say, that's what my daughters say to me.
And they go, here comes the mum lesson.
We don't need the lesson, mum.
You should have got your kids
to do this interview instead.
But talking about people not caring,
what I've always wondered too about you,
you said that when you were open
and then you felt upset by what was written,
often when you put yourself out there though
with quite controversial comments
and people really come for you,
how do you manage that?
Or do you ever regret thinking,
oh, perhaps I've gone a bit too far with that?
There's been regret.
There's also been things that I've said
that I can genuinely put down to being uneducated
or being just not anything I've ever learnt about.
And then I do take the experience of when someone goes,
well, from where I sit,
this is how it made me feel
and this is how it makes my type of people feel, blah, blah.
And I've always been very open to hearing that sort of stuff.
If someone's confrontational and aggressive,
I will match that aggression back.
I wouldn't attack someone,
but I'd definitely defend myself physically, no problem.
Always have done.
No one really, I don't get into fights
because I think people realise, oh, he's six for one.
He's not Danny DeVito.
He looks like Danny DeVito on TV,
but he's actually quite a big guy.
I don't have confrontations with people.
I'm sure people don't like me for whatever,
but some people even ring the show still, the radio show,
and go, well, mate,
been listening to you for the last only four weeks
because I've had to because of the new job I work at
or whatever, and they play it there.
And he goes, I always thought you were a dead set wanker
for like 20 years.
And I think, what, how?
And he goes, but I've only read this and that
and I've heard a bit here,
but mate, gee, you're a funny bloke
and you gave that woman and her family a new car
so they could survive.
And you bought this person a house and you've,
but I don't do it for the glory.
And some of these things aren't even organised.
Someone might ring up and it just naturally comes out
that this is that and all this terrible stuff's happened.
I'll just say, oh, just give her $30,000
and fix all the hurt problems up.
Because I can and it's not a big problem.
I'll do things for kids or animal rescues and things,
things that are passionate.
And I think, you know, and I just keep them quiet, low key.
I feel almost grubby telling everyone, oh, look at me.
Look what I've done.
How wonderful am I?
It doesn't even sound that bad when I say it now.
Maybe I should say more of it.
It's not about, oh, look at all these amazing things
I've done. Some people say that though.
For you, I think it's about owning
that more vulnerable side of yourself.
God, you're so desperate to have me.
You know what, if I get scorched up there,
if I get scorched, if I show my vulnerability,
am I going to come over and live with you and Petey
to pick up the pieces?
This is your fault, Jess.
I've got nothing.
I've lost my job.
Idol's been canceled.
The radio's been canceled.
I've got no money.
I've got the baby and the girlfriend.
We're moving in with you and Petey.
Anytime we've got the spare bedroom.
Oh, we're all in one room.
Is there anything you've said that you have regretted?
Well, I've said things I shouldn't.
I haven't said it and instantly thought,
oh, I shouldn't have said that.
I usually say things for humor.
It's never really anything that I've said that I think,
it's usually been spun.
So there's been a few incidences over the years,
like the girl with the lie detector years and years ago,
that got me fired from the first Idol, right?
So what really happened was we had a lie detector.
Anyone could bring anyone and put them on it.
A boss could bring an employee, a husband and wife situation.
This particular one, a mum bought her 14,
15 year old daughter in and the kid was out of control.
And the mum was a single mum.
At her wits end, the mum was crazy.
Like the kid's gonna die, something's gonna happen.
This was like the last ditch attempt.
And I wasn't asking any questions.
The mum was allowed to ask the questions.
So a few things went wrong there.
First of all, I was in New Zealand in a hotel room,
doing the show remote.
So I didn't have any control of any buttons or anything.
I just had a microphone hanging out of a wall
and a camera screen.
I can see the lie detector guy there
and he would nod yes or no, whether it was a lie or not.
That was pretty primitive sort of communication,
but that's what we were doing.
Anyway, so the mum asked the question.
The kid said that she was raped at 14 and all this.
And it was horrific, right?
And I thought, oh my God, I can't really do it.
I can't touch anything.
I can't turn anything off.
I can't do anything.
So I kicked into radio mode and was like,
is that the only sexual experience you've ever had?
And then Jackie realised this is too much.
The girl was crying, the mum was crying.
Just cancel the segment.
Well, they all spun it and they were like,
Sandlands has put a rape victim teenager on the radio
and quizzed her about her sex life.
Paraphrasing, not really what happened.
And that perception became reality
and that was the narrative.
All of a sudden the story was out of control.
Wasn't really what happened.
Then the daughter and the mother,
I was in communication with them
because they were like, I was going to get fired.
I got fired from Idol.
They suspended me from the radio station.
It was a nightmare.
And the mum and the daughter were devastated
that it had happened to me
because they were fans of the show.
The daughter became in a very vulnerable position emotionally
and the mum was even worse.
And I thought this, and the media kept churning,
trying to find the mum.
Current Affair and everyone trying to get the daughter.
They wanted this.
And they were like, we're going to go out.
And I said, do not.
I'm being blamed, right?
I'm fine with that.
You do not want to put yourself on television
as a mum and daughter with all this shit you do not want.
They were like, but they're firing you.
I would gladly lose my job.
Trust me, do not step into the spotlight.
You will make it worse for yourselves.
You can't help me.
Let the wave happen.
I'll survive this.
And I said, don't do it.
They were going to do anything to try and like,
stand by me or whatever it was.
And I said, I knew how this thing works.
And I was like, you're banging your head
against a brick wall.
Anyway, I got suspended for about a month or something,
And everyone was like, you know,
and people's memory of the story is
that I found some kid that had been raped
and didn't believe her and quizzed her on a lie detector.
That's really not what happened.
No one was really being evil or trying to do that sort of,
cause that sounds evil and horrible.
And no one wants someone that does that sort of rubbish.
But I still am in communication with some of these people.
And they were like, well, thank you for that right advice.
And everything's come good and she's developed,
you know, fully functioning, happy human being now.
But you know, the press can make very bad little decisions
just for a little click.
Like, oh, they're all people that click on this.
And emotionally behind the scenes
can destroy people for life.
Emotionally, the way they interact with people,
it can be quite a dangerous situation.
So while I'm out there doing crazy things
on the radio all the time,
it's never done with malice.
It's never done to hurt anyone.
It's certainly never done to put a child
in a vulnerable position like we did,
but we didn't know that they were gonna ask that question,
all these extra things.
But it didn't matter cause the horse had bolted
and I was responsible.
But ultimately I was responsible,
even though I really couldn't do anything,
I still had the copper.
And I'm fine with that,
but this is the first time I've ever really spoken about it.
No, honestly, I've never gone and set the record straight
and said the AM Talkback Radio
twisted the reality into something scandalous.
And then every other lazy journalist
just ran with it like the truth.
It was shocking to me,
but I didn't run around saying,
dragging a kid and a single mom on television to say,
look, I didn't do anything wrong.
You just suck it up and you see.
But those things have been impactful.
So there are some things I regret saying or doing,
but it's in hindsight.
You always just add that to the intelligence
and the learning of a broadcaster that,
hey, we've done this before
and let's make sure this is right.
So these are just lessons that you learn
as a TV or a radio person.
You can't control every aspect of live radio
and live broadcasting,
but you must learn your lessons
and collect that knowledge
to try and minimise potential problems in the future.
And so you're still in contact
with the mother and the daughter?
Oh, they didn't come around for barbecues,
but if they needed to get me
or if I needed to get them, we could.
But many, many years have passed,
but it's important to make sure
that they were comfortable
because it got worse for them during that time,
And my intention was to get their relationship better,
which is the whole reason they came on in the first place.
But it doesn't always work out as planned.
There you have it,
Kyle talking about his career rock bottom.
Now onto the greatest love of Kyle's life,
which we now know is his son Otto.
And I wanted to ask him
about something that I'd heard him say on the radio,
that he'd like his son Otto to be gay.
And also have you said you'd like Otto to be gay?
I have, and similar reasons
as to what you were talking about with your daughters
and the dating the boys, the teenage boys.
I know what being a teenage boy was like,
and it's horrifying.
I also don't like sport.
So I'd prefer him to be like dancing in a recital.
Not that you have to be gay,
but let's face it, it's highly likely.
And I've actually enjoyed,
I've got many friends that are gay,
lesbians and gay guys, they're fun.
Like I don't want a gronk son
who's just footy, footy, footy,
rootin' chicks, rootin' chicks, drinkin' beer.
That is not what I want to have as a child.
And I've told his mum too, Tegan,
she goes, do you really want him to be gay?
And I said, look, I don't care.
And she goes, I don't care either.
I said, and she goes, but you're not gonna steer him.
I said, no, no, he'll be whatever he wants to be.
No, you can't, you can't.
I mean, people are born how they're born.
But I like, I've got a lot of friends that are gay,
and I like, I love the humour
and the anything goes attitude.
And I just, I don't care.
It was more my way of saying,
if he was gay or any particular inclination of anything,
100% support for me.
That's really what it meant.
I might've phrased it wrong.
I didn't even finish year 10.
You're dealing with like limited education.
You're one of the smartest people I know.
Well, there's smarts and then there's book smarts,
I'm more cunning, like a Sydney rat, you know?
Like there's cunning rats.
Like the Ebony Python.
Would you have another baby, do you think?
Tegan would love another one.
And I said, look, let's just get this one right first.
Cause when we first brought him home from the hospital,
I was like, oh my God, we should have read a book.
I've got no idea what's going on.
He hadn't cried ever until he put him in the car
and left, as soon as we came out of the hospital,
and I thought, oh my God, he's crying.
We've only just left the hospital.
We're on our own, we're on our own, we're on our own.
She'd love another one.
I'm not opposed at all to having another one,
but I'm just like, I don't know what I'm doing.
I still don't know what I'm doing.
So never, you never know?
You are never there yet.
No, no, no, no, no.
But to me, that's the excitement and joy of being a parent.
You're never there yet.
Each stage has its different challenges
and joys and pressures.
And then they leave you alone, old, at home
with your old husband by then.
But I think, you know what?
Kids never seem to leave home these days, so.
I actually liked that too.
I'd encourage him to stay forever.
Like, well, I get a flat.
Look at our place.
Yeah, and then we play a room.
Water view, pool.
You've got an arcade, video game arcades downstairs.
I'll load that joint up.
You won't want to go.
Of course he won't.
Can you see yourself doing what you're doing on air forever?
Or is there a part of you that could step away
from the spotlight?
If you'd asked me this prior to Otto being born,
I would have said, I'm taking my last breath
on the radio show.
I will die on air.
Lawsey looks like a Bond villain.
He's still on air.
Still coughing and carrying on.
And sounds great though.
He's still got that amazing voice.
He still rings every now and then.
And I'm like, oh, good day, John.
I'm like really squeaky.
You know, I thought that.
But just recently, this is going to sound weird,
but I've been watching.
Have you watched this show, Return to the Chateau?
Have you ever seen that on Fox?
Where they're redoing up the.
Yes, they've got this Dick Strawbridge guy
and his little dumpy wife and their fat little kids.
And they're all living in a chateau
in south of France somewhere.
These things are worth nothing.
I couldn't believe it.
You can't get a flat in Bondi for it.
You can get a chateau on 30 acres in France.
And I'm watching this family
and they're all like picking flowers
and sticking them on paper and everything.
Stuff I would never have been interested in, ever.
I would think that's for the idiots.
And I'm watching and then Otto's in the bouncer,
rocking, rocking, rocking.
And I think I can see myself living in a chateau in France.
It's not the richest of the rich,
but what a beautiful, inclusive nature.
You're there with the child.
And I thought I could do that.
I could hang up the headphones
and just live with my family
on a property somewhere like that.
I've never thought that in my life.
Obviously you got to have the chateau to be fancy.
But that's only just something
that's just come into my mind in the last couple of months
where I've thought, I can see myself doing that.
Before that, never.
I lived for the radio.
But now there's something a little bit more special
and precious and beautiful to live for.
It's taken me 50 years to actually find out,
maybe I've got more going for me
than just talking on the radio.
Maybe I will be a good dad, which is what I really hope.
I reckon you will,
you've got this big, beautiful world out there, Kyle.
Well, there's a few areas of the world
that aren't that beautiful.
It's so good to talk to you.
It's lovely to talk to you.
I had to end on a negative.
Cut that bit out.
So you go down the back streets of Surry Hills.
And I'll just, I'll grab four or five grand out of the bank.
And this is real, I don't tell anyone this.
And I'll go down the back streets of Surry Hills
where they're all laying in sleeping bags under the bridge.
And I'll pull up on the footpath in the Rolls-Royce,
start beeping the horn.
They're all like, oh, oh, oh, while waking up.
And I'll just go around.
And people have said, don't give the money,
the homeless people, they'll buy drugs.
But I say, here, go and get yourself some.
I don't, you know, and they're, oh, oh, oh, thanks.
Now, I don't run around telling everyone that.
And I don't do it all the time.
I remember, I was that person.
And maybe someone just needed a little olive branch
to get out of that rut.
And maybe, because I brought myself completely out
of that life to this life.
It's a complete 360.
And I thought they might buy heroin
or this might make the difference
between them being homeless
and them having a normal life in society again.
So fuck it, I'll give them the money.
Well, they feel seen.
And we all want to feel seen.
I don't like being seen from the side.
Because from the front.
I've got a preferred side too.
From the front, I don't think they're bad.
From the side, I'm Norm from that old cartoon ad.
Do you know, you've got to talk to Petey.
Petey goes on and on about, oh, pussycat.
What would Petey know about weight?
It is, no, endless, the discussion.
He's a stream bean.
No, I'll tell him that.
He's up and down, he's got no weight.
He goes on and on.
He's got nothing to complain about.
Like this therapy stuff, this shit works.
But you know, for you to give us so much of your time.
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Yeah, so grateful and lovely.
But it's, you know what, it's such, for me,
it is such a treat to be able to sit
and talk with you like this,
because I've never, you know,
we haven't had this opportunity.
Well, you don't do the same things I get up to.
So I didn't know if we'd get on socially.
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, but you're not real, so.
You want to pretend, you know, but you're not.
I'm like, I'm a bit nervous about this.
I turn around this way.
Yeah, yeah, why are you turning the other way?
What do you mean?
Cheers, everyone.
Thanks for having me.
Kyle has such a big heart.
He really is a pussycat,
even if he's uncomfortable admitting it.
Now, I can't wait to see what the next chapter
of his extraordinary life involves.
You know we could have a part three, four, five
of this interview, because there is so much
that I wanted to ask Kyle.
So he is hoping he will come back on the podcast.
Now, Kyle, of course, is also back on the telly,
returning to the judging panel on Australian Idol
Now, for more big conversations like this one with Kyle,
follow the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show podcast.
It means you'll never miss an episode,
and if there's someone in your life
who you reckon will love this conversation,
share it with them.
The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me, Jess Rowe,
executive producer, Nick McClure,
supervising producer, Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious
to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.