What do they say? The most important thing is carrying the message, even using words
if necessary. I think that's the point of it. I love that they said to Gandhi, what's
the message of your life? And he says, my life is my message. And I think that's really
more what it is. It's just live it. You don't need to talk about it. Just live it.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep. From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show
you a different side of people who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest
conversations about the things that matter. I don't know about you, but in this time of
social isolation, I really crave connected conversations. So I'm going to dig deep to
give you a new window into the souls of the people we're curious to get to know and understand.
There might be tears as well as laughter as we celebrate the real life flaws and vulnerabilities
that make us human. Keith Urban is a global superstar. He's a singer, songwriter and multi
instrumentalist, but he's not keen to put a label on what he does. For him, he wants
his music to do the talking. I was lucky enough to sit down with Keith ahead of the launch
of his latest single, Night Falls. It's a joyful song about making it matter right now.
And I'm excited and a little nervous about talking music, love, parenthood and how we
get through this crazy thing called life. Keith Urban, it is so exciting.
Hi, Jess. Hi, to talk to you. Yeah, likewise. I mean, you are so cool. You ooze cool. You're
the one that looks like you've just come from the cocktail party. I mean, you've just stepped
out of the club to do this quick podcast. Look at you. Well, I'm meeting a rock star,
so I thought I've got to wear leopard print and a cat suit and you know, bring my A-game.
You always bring your A-game, Jess. Thank you. Now, speaking of A-game, your new song, Night
Falls. I love it. Thank you. It's joyful. That's what I love. Thank you. When I turn it up
loud. Yeah, good. I've always leaned into those kind of buoyant, optimistic type of
songs. I've certainly got plenty of other songs in my repertoire, but those are the
ones that have been more of a central theme for me. You know, I was raised on the beach
and I'm a very summer type guy and I like that kind of vibe, so we wanted to write a
bit of a summer jam. Because that's the thing. I could imagine spinning around on the sand
to that song. Yeah, nice. Living it. Nice. Yeah, living it, feeling it. Yeah, absolutely.
Because you worked with Greg Kirsten. Yeah. He co-produced Adele. What was that like working
with him? Oh, amazing. We worked together maybe six years ago on a track, but it didn't
make the record. And I always wanted to get back in the studio with him because he's just
a whole other level. That's why everybody wants to work with him. You know, as a songwriter,
as a player, a producer, just a really great collaborative spirit. So we wrote this song
together and another girl called Mozilla, who's a great songwriter. So Greg and Mozilla and I
wrote Night Falls. So you say it's a whole other level working with him. Do you get intimidated
working with people like that? Inspired, more than intimidated, just inspired and educated.
Everybody's got a different approach to things and getting to play with somebody like him is
great, you know, because he's a proper musician, classically trained and just a great creative
brain and diverse because, you know, we work with somebody like Beck or the Foo Fighters and then
Adele and then Pink and then Greta Van Fleet. And it's just it's all over the place. It's crazy.
But you say he's a proper musician. You are. I mean, you're a multi instrumentalist.
How many instruments? What does that mean? I always say I'm a guitar player that plays
some other instruments as well. But I play like a guitar player, you know. My dad was a drummer. So
I grew up in a very musical family. My grandfather was a piano player and taught piano most of his
life. All of my dad's brothers are musical trumpet, guitar, keyboards, drums, crazy.
Is the guitar your favourite though? Is that where you feel most comfortable?
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I started playing when I was six. It's part of me. More than instruments,
really part of me. How hard is it to perform without your guitar? Do you need it there with you?
I've, yeah. I've worked on getting more comfortable without it because I don't, you know,
when I'm doing vocals in the studio, I don't have it. So, but being on stage, yeah. Yeah,
it's something that I've worked on a little bit more over the years, playing songs without it.
Yeah. Because John Mayer, I read he was quoted in a Rolling Stone article and he said you're
a rare performer, that you can actually make a guitar speak inside of your songs. Now that
intrigued me. What does that actually mean? That's so John, isn't it? What does it mean though?
I think because I grew up with guys like Mark Knopfler from Dire Straits, Lindsay Buckingham,
Fleetwood Mac, guitarists that played to support the song. So either texturally,
as opposed to that typical kind of dominant guitar solo, you know, dominating the song. I
love guys that are very textural and atmospheric and both of those guys are very much that. John
is too. John is an amazing player. Well, I mean, you've played together in some extraordinary
performances. I haven't seen them live, but I've seen them on YouTube and they're wild.
Yeah, he's great. We've got a good simpatico, the two of us. Yes. On stage, when would you say
you're happiest? On stage, when am I the happiest? Yeah. I think when everything just becomes one.
When it's not, where you sort of, a moment becomes, I've never surfed, but I've always
imagined that when they're in the tube and they're in the zone and they're in complete flow,
where all time dissipates and everything dissipates and it's just sort of now it's
the moment. I think those moments happen live sporadically and they're indescribable.
I bet, almost spiritual in a way. It is because everything becomes one.
There's no us and them with the audience. It's just we're in this room, in this moment,
in this venue. Everything just becomes, we're all feeling and experiencing the same thing at the
same time. Yeah. And do you know, do you know instantly when you are in that zone?
Well, it's a catch-22 because the minute you do, you've come out of it.
So is it later then? Is it later afterwards when you kind of reflect
on a performance and think, oh, that was it. That was that moment.
I think even when you come out of it, coming out of a moment, a solo or something is happening
where it's just pure flow and then you sort of come out of it, it's like a little mini dream,
like a little REM moment. And you come out of it and you're like, gosh, that was amazing. And
you try and repeat that moment the next night. And of course it doesn't work because
it was true last night and tonight it's a repeat. So it's not true.
So you try and look for the next one of truth. Well, it's almost like sometimes if you try too
hard for something to happen, it never happens. We were just talking earlier about that thing
about when a bird lands on a branch, which is when you think about it, it's a very complicated
maneuver. You look at a big tree, infinite amount of branches and a bird's got to fly
into that and land. And it does it effortlessly. But as we're talking about, because it's not
thinking about it. If it were to think about it, it'd be, I'm sure the bird would be like,
bloody hell, this is hard. How do I do this? Right. But because it doesn't think it's just
in its flow. And I think that's what we're trying to do on stage every night is be in the flow.
And do you think because you've been doing it so long, that's how you get in the flow?
That because you've had decades of performing, of working hard, it just happens like that?
It helps because I think there's that, you know, the 10,000 hours that Malcolm Glover talks about,
racking those up so that you sort of, I don't know, I don't know about the word master your
instrument. I'm never sure what that means. That's a weird thing to say. But there's such
a comfort level with the instrument and with the environment that you can now have fun with it.
Yeah. And be and flow and flow in it. Yeah. Something I think in Australia that we've
made a mistake doing is saying you're a country music superstar, because there's so much more
to what you do. Your music goes through all sorts of genres, doesn't it?
Yeah. I mean, I sort of started with a dual life, I think, musically speaking, I grew up in a house
where my dad loved country music. So that was the most dominant music that I was exposed to.
And they had these country music clubs all through Australia. When I was growing up,
amateur country music clubs where you could go and join the club and they'd get together
once every two weeks, rent out the local hall, put a band together, and you could come along
and you could get up and sing or you could just bring a covered dish and you could just enjoy the
music, right? And we became members of this club. And I think I was nine when my parents joined
this country music club. And so you would meet other kids whose parents have joined this club.
And then you go and compete with other clubs yearly somewhere in Australia, and you'll sort
of merge into this town and all the clubs compete with one another. So I had that as my childhood.
But then at the age of sort of 14, 15, I'm discovering all different kinds of music,
Top 40. And my brother loved ELO and Supertramp, Fleetwood Mac and sort of just all this other
stuff. And then everything that's on the radio at the time. So playing in cover bands in pubs
was the other side of it. So half of me is sort of in this country thing and the other half is in
this Aussie pub rock and roll Top 40 environment. And those two worlds is really the foundation of
what I do. How would you describe yourself as a performer now in terms of how you would like to
be introduced? I don't know how to do that. Yeah, you know, just give me a chance to play. Yeah,
just give me a chance to play. It's hard to put a label on that. It's a mix of things. And I think
the minute you use a label, it's human nature to think of what my version of that label is,
you know, and then it's probably not that. Well, we don't fit in a neat box, do we? None of us do.
No, hopefully not. No, it'd be boring. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I think just being true
to yourself is all that matters. Because with your new song, Night Falls, I'd read that often when
you write a song, it reflects where you're at in your life. It's like a snapshot of where you are.
Right. So where are you now? How would you describe where you're at now? Well,
Night Falls is a good example of that. We wrote this in June of 2021. And the opening line is
we've been through some hard times. I ain't going to lie. But I don't want to think about that. Not
with you right here tonight. Because who knows if tomorrow is even going to come. Stay with me and
dance. So I think it's not only coming out of this period that we've all been in for the last couple
of years. For me, the best songs have always pulled me through into the light, into tomorrow,
out of my situation by either speaking to me in a way that I can not feel alone with where I am.
You hear a song, you go, oh my God, that person knows what I'm going through. That's what I'm
going through right now is that. Or a song that comes along and just sort of lifts you up out of
it and pulls you forward. I love those kinds of songs and Night Falls is definitely that.
And I think that word that you say there alone, none of us want to feel alone. And now more than
ever, I think we crave that connection because the pandemic has meant for many of us, we aren't with
our loved ones. We're not connected in ways that were part of who we are and how we live in the
world and exist. Yeah. I mean, we're all different with our human interactions. You've got huggers
and awkward people and like all the rest of it. But I'm very tactile and I've missed that
human physical interaction with people and gosh, we don't even know how to greet people now.
I know I do the awkward, I go and then I clunk someone's nose, do I give them a kiss and then
I've got a mask on and that throws out all my spatial awareness. And then I shout as well
because I find when I have a mask on, I'm shouting at people and then the mask comes off and I'm
thinking, am I still being really loud? It's hard to regulate all of that.
Yeah, we've got some greeting etiquette to rework right now.
I think we do. Because what was it like for you, the pandemic, because as a performer,
I think it's been particularly tough that you haven't been able to get out on stage and
entertain and also audiences, we miss that. And I think there's something really special about
being in an audience, watching a live performance. How have you coped not doing that?
It's the shared experience that I think is just in the human DNA to have a shared experience
because it makes it rich and fuller. It's like seeing a great sunset on your own versus seeing
it with somebody. Beautiful sunset, but it's so much more enjoyable and richer experience.
So I think I've missed that. I've missed it for the audience. I've missed it for the crew,
all the road crew that have been doing it so hard as well, everywhere. And the vendors,
everybody that's been waiting eagerly to get back.
Has there ever been a time during this pandemic where you've thought,
will I ever get back on stage again?
I mean, I always felt like this is just a time. I don't know how long it's going to be,
but at some point we'll be through this. We've always been through it and we'll be back on stage
and audiences have been moshing again. Because I bet you can't wait to tour
Night Falls and all the other new songs that will be coming with it.
Yeah, it was crushing to have One Too Many out with Pink and not be able to tour and play that
song every night because I'm also one of those people that go to see a concert by an artist
that they've got a song out. I just can't wait for them to play that song. I want to sing that
song really loud and badly in the audience with that person. I get it. We've missed that as well.
Because that song with Pink, I adore too. I love Pink. To record that as well
via distance must have been a challenge.
Not an unusual thing. You often have to record separately, but to not have the choice to do it
in the same studio was frustrating. She's amazing.
Oh, she is. She's one cool chick.
And speaking about cool chicks, your beautiful wife, Nicole, there's something about her
that I think is magic. When I've met her, when I've been lucky enough to chat with her and
things, I find myself almost carried away by just, oh my goodness, you're almost this ethereal
creature. She has a way about it, doesn't she? Yeah, ethereal is a good word. Angelic,
sort of otherworldly. Yeah, this is very mystical. Oh, she's divine.
And then completely down to earth at the same time. It's a great balance. Very funny.
Oh my god, I love this song.
And self-deprecating and the laugh and she's just-
And if she wants to prank you, you're going to get pranked because she's a great actress.
Of course. Has she done a recent prank with you then?
No, but if she ever does that, I'll fall for it every time.
Oh, really? You can never tell. She's very good.
I know you've told this story many times before, but you first met at Cadet LA.
Yeah. And I know for Nick,
she knew straight away that you were the man for her.
She says, well, that's what she says. Oh, come on. But she knew. She knew. She
had that sparkle in her eye. But it wasn't the same for you.
Oh, no, it wasn't not the same for me. That was somebody who seemed
way out of my league at that time in my life. Truly. That's a fair statement.
And I think anybody who knew me at the time would agree. So, yeah.
But why do you say that?
I was just in a really not a great place in my life at that time,
struggling a lot with things and not in a million years thought somebody like that would
see anything in me. And I don't mean that in some or shucks humble me way. I mean, really,
like, really, truly. So the fact that that became what it was meant to be is astounding.
And it's a fairy tale. And I think for many people, they look at you guys as a couple and they
think, oh, we want a little bit of what they're having or a bit of that magic, so to speak.
Right. I mean, we're just a couple that work things out and go through things together,
life and support each other the best way we can and try and raise our family. And
underneath it all, it's as bad as normal as you can get, I reckon.
And that's the key, though, isn't it? And as you say as well, you have to work at it.
Any part of your life takes work and relationships take work.
Yeah. And hopefully it's something that you love to do. I mean, I love
making music. I love making records. I love touring. That's something that I
not only have to work out, but I get to work at it. And it's extremely rewarding because I'm
perpetually curious and hungry. And I want to know, will this piece of music go with this?
What if I bring in a bit of this? What if I do that when we play live?
Here's a good example, right? So here's a good story. So we were playing live one time and we
were on tour. And I thought, gosh, it'd be great if we did a song with no lights, just pitch black
in an arena, right? Because I had never seen it. This is 10 years ago. Never seen this. That would
be an unusual feeling to only hear the artists on stage and not be able to see them. So I didn't
rehearse this. That's where I went wrong. I just had the idea of going to the gig one night.
And I said to my crew, this is what we're going to do. We're going to have a song where I start
off on piano, a beautiful song called Tonight I Want to Cry. I started on piano and I'm going
to have all these candles on the top of the piano. And I'll talk about something and I'll
dramatically blow out each candle and it'll get dark and dark and this is great. And then we'll
be pitch black. So they go, oh, this sounds great. This will be fantastic. What could go wrong?
So we have about six candles on the piano. I get up to the piano and I'm saying,
you know, I'm just winging it, right? So I'm like, you go to a concert and there's this
massive production up there and it's, I dramatically blow out one candle and there's
video walls and there's all this fancy lighting. But at some point you start to wonder if it's
getting in the way of the music. And I wondered what it would be like when I'm like down to the
last candle, what it would be like for us to experience just the music.
And it's pitch black and I put the mic in the stand and I start the song.
Could not see the piano. Put a light on me.
Loudly hit every wrong note through the PA system on this piano. And then the spotlight frantically
comes up and I'll recover and off we go. It's a complete calamity. But my point is I'm always
willing to try things. But I think that is the key. I love that because we have to.
Because you weren't there. Well, I would have loved to have seen it, I think.
It's quite the moment. But we don't learn if we don't try things.
That's right. Give it a go. Yeah, risk things.
It's the Aussie way, isn't it? Yeah, why not? Give it a crack.
Give it a crack. Give it a crack.
Because another thing that struck me about you is that it's almost people who've had a go at you
or criticised you, that's fuelled you on, hasn't it? I think that's for most of us.
Really? Because I'm not. If someone criticises me, I feel diminished.
Not so much criticise you, but maybe doesn't have the belief in you. And you're like,
oh, really? Okay, I'll show you. Whether it's in your family or whether it's your friends or
friends. But someone that you know, who has been a bit of a shine blocker in your life,
and you kind of use that fuel a little bit, I think. And I certainly have.
Yeah, I've definitely used a lot of fuel from non-believers.
Shine blocker. I like that term. I've never heard that. I love it.
We can be our own shine blockers too, so you've got to be careful of that.
So how can we not be our own shine blockers then?
Recognise when you're being it, first and foremost. Golly gee, the amount of times I'm
making things so hard for myself. I'm like, what am I doing this? I should be supporting myself
here. I should be the first person to believe in what I'm doing. So yeah, recognising it is key.
And is it as simple as that? And do you still do that now?
Yeah, I think that's where the whole mindfulness comes in to play in life. I think it's all that.
The ego gets involved. And I always thought the ego was just about grandiosity, but the ego is
completely insecurity and pummeling me as well. That's ego as well. Ego is the fireman that rushes
in to put out my fire, and it turns out was also the arsonist that lit the damn thing.
That is so good. It's a beast.
How did you get so wise? How do you just know these things?
They're just things that I start to realise in my own life, and I try and be
aware of this little thing. One that I love as well is that
you're only as sick as your biggest secret. I think that's a really good one too.
Very much. Yeah, it's true. What I marvel about you is the way that you are open
about things that have been your secrets in the past. That you've been open about your battles
with addiction, because it's something that many of us battle in our lives.
And was that hard for you to do to be so open? It was a process. Yeah, it was a process
to work my way through that and start again with a new way of being in the world.
And I hope you know how much that helps people. Are you aware of the power of you sharing that?
I'm aware how much it's very much helped me from the people who've been gracious enough to do the
same for me at a time. People that have gone that same road and I've been able to look at
other people's way of starting again and being in this world different, with a different way
of seeing the world and a different roadmap. One that I wasn't given because my parents didn't
know to give it to me. They gave me the best life and love they could. And then there was
things for me to learn and grow, which I think that's just normal. It's a normal human evolution,
hopefully, to not carry on the same ways of being if they're dysfunctional and need to be addressed
so that the cycle doesn't continue. And that's hard though. I think it's really hard to have
that level of awareness to actually say I'm drawing a line in the sand now and I'm not going to
blame everyone else or blame my family or blame other sorts of factors for the choices that I'm
making that are impacting on my life. At some point it's up to me now to sit there and blame
everybody. There's what happens to us and then there's what we do with it. At some point then
it becomes my responsibility. Whatever I've been blessed or cursed with genetically and all the
rest of it, it's now up to me to do something about that. Am I going to just carry it on and
keep like pig pen just like black clouding everyone I meet and drag them into my briar patch?
Or am I going to get rid of this cloud? And you've got rid of that cloud?
I've just moved in a different direction from it. Because you strike me as quite a spiritual person
and I love the serenity prayer because I think it's something that you don't even have to believe
in God for it to have some meaning or value. I love that sense of grant me the serenity to accept
the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know
the difference. It's all encompassing isn't it? But it's so powerful and I think we can all use that
in different areas of our life. Yeah. Yeah. Do I need to accept this thing? If I do, help me with
that. Can I change this thing? If I do, maybe I need help with that. And if I'm confused of which
one it is, give me some help in figuring out which one it is. It's a good one isn't it? Oh,
it's beautiful. It's pretty encompassing. My thing about recovery is that I've been somewhat
quiet about it. It's obviously a very personal thing for me and I love my audience to come to
the show and have the best time they've ever had. I don't want them thinking about what my life is
like and what I do to have a certain kind of life because their lives are completely different
to mine and I just want them to have a good time. I don't care what it is. If they're going to roll
up the biggest spliff on the planet and have the night of their lives, I'll wipe the damn thing
for you. It's my thing. I just want you to have a great time. Just have a great time and let
yourself go and have a really great night, whatever that is. And I think too though,
you say it's a very personal thing for you, but again, don't underestimate the power of
sharing your story. No, but I think, what do they say, the most important thing is carrying the
message, even using words if necessary. I think that's the point of it. I love that they said to
Gandhi, what's the message of your life? And he says, my life is my message. And I think that's
really more what it is. It's just live it. You don't need to talk about it. You just live it.
Well, like night falls, living it. That's right. Living it and feeling it. Coming alive. That's
right. Who doesn't want to do that? And also too, as you say, you want the audience to come along
and be in whatever mindset they're at because we're all dealing with something. Everyone's got
something that we need to work through, get rid of, whatever it is. Yeah. It doesn't take a
pandemic. No. There's always crap that we're dealing with. Always things. Yeah, always.
You know, for me, for example, I had terrible postnatal depression after the birth of both
of my girls and I still deal with depression and anxiety, but I'm open with my daughters about it
because I want them to know there's no shame in asking for help. There's no shame in I take
medication. And I've always wanted to talk to them about that, those sorts of struggles that
I've had. Have you done that with your girls or have you thought about ways that you want to talk
to them about how to not lead a good life, but to say, Hey, I'm not perfect either. And I grapple
with things too. I think they can see that pretty quickly. We're an open book at home.
Goodness me. I'm learning so much from Nick. She's an amazing mum. And I didn't grow up with girls,
just me and my brother and mum and dad. And so I didn't have sisters. I didn't really know much
about girls until I met Nick. Then I started learning a lot. And then we have two daughters.
I'm surrounded by it now. And haven't you got a female cat and a female dog as well?
No, I've got a male dog. Oh, okay. Well, that's good. That's something.
And I've got a band. So, you know, we're all good, balanced out. They don't live with us,
but I don't think they do. I haven't seen them in the house.
So there's some of that male energy around though anyway.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty balanced. It's pretty good.
So as a dad, how would you describe yourself?
I reckon kids should describe you as a parent, right? I don't know. A work in progress?
I like that regardless of if you're a parent or not. But if I think about how my girls would
probably describe me, they'd say I'm embarrassing, sometimes funny. And they love me. That would sort
of be how they would describe me. Hopefully not in that order.
Oh, no. Often embarrassing is top of the list. That's that age, isn't it?
Well, I think so. Would you embarrass your kids or not?
I'm quite sure. Of course. Yeah. Have they said to you yet? Oh, you're so
embarrassing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, not those words,
but yeah, I get the look. I get it. It's all right. No worries.
Well, I feel a little bit better then. Oh, yeah. Super normal house.
Someone who's looking super cool in front of me gets told that they're embarrassing. That's good.
Oh, gosh, yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, because you're just dad, you know.
And as a dad, though, because I know with me, I like to chat a lot. I like to be silly with my girls.
I call myself the moober because I basically am the uber for them.
Yeah, I'm the doober. Yeah, so I get it. You're the doober?
Yeah, exactly. You're either moobering or doobering at any given time.
Yeah, right. You'd be a great doober.
Thank you. You're probably a great moober. If you've just joined us, I bet you're confused and yet
riveted. Because what I find, though, is when I'm moobering, that is when I will often have
the best conversations because I'm not looking at them directly.
Yeah, there's something about a car, isn't there? I love having conversations in cars
and listening to music in cars. Cars have played a big role in my life.
My dad always loved taking us for drives when we were kids on a Sunday afternoon.
But where were we going? He goes, just driving. He just loved driving. So we just go for a drive.
But that was such a sort of parent thing to do in the 70s, I reckon.
Let's go for a Sunday drive. There was no particular destination,
but you were just going for a drive. Yeah, I love cars and I've really taken
that on from my dad. It's a great place to listen to music and, like I say, conversations,
especially the ones when you're pulling into the drive and you pull into the garage
and you haven't finished the conversation yet. You sit in the car for hours and hours and hours.
Who hasn't done that? Now, you talk quite a bit about your dad,
and I was reading in a Rolling Stone article that you and your brother were talking about
memories of your dad, and they were quite different sorts of recollections
that your mum had, that your dad was tough. He was a pretty tough bloke.
Yeah. I mean, it's hard to contextualise all of that, I think, because it's always
relative to so many other things. And what's a normal upbringing? Who has a clue? I don't know.
Well, the only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.
Probably. That's what I reckon.
I think it's definitely true for me. I don't know anybody normally.
The end result is probably what really speaks the loudest about the way you were raised,
because I think even being able to change things, get it together and whatever those
abilities are, they all came from the upbringing as well.
So meaning where you're at now in your life, you've done all of that work to get to that point.
But you wouldn't have done it without that upbringing either.
It has to play into it. I mean, because I'm still the same person. The DNA wiring in me is
unchanged. So that's a pretty good reflection, I think, of my mum and dad's raising.
Yeah. Because your dad was a massive, as you say,
country music fan. He really got you into it, didn't he?
Yeah. And then mum was moobering all the time, driving me to talent quests and things that I
wanted to do. I made it to the semifinals of a talent quest that was going to be taking place
at Brookside Shopping Centre. I think I was nine. Mum couldn't drive me, so dad was tasked with
driving me there. Dad was very punctual. I came home from school. We had to leave at 4pm.
The school got out at 3pm. I came home, got out of my school uniform, put on my shorts, got some
Milo, put the TV on, and my dad would stick his head in and go, you know, we're leaving
at four o'clock. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all right. And then at like 3.30,
3.40, he'd come in and he goes, we're leaving in 20 minutes. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'll be ready.
And then about 10 to four, he's like, we're leaving in 10 minutes and you know, I'll leave
without you if you're not in the car. So I jump in the shower and I'm like, he's not going to leave.
I mean, he's only driving for me. In the shower, I hear the car start up and pull out and off he
went. I looked out the window of the bathroom and saw my dad driving off and I was just mortified.
And he went away somewhere long enough for me to completely miss this thing and drive home.
And he goes, please be on time next time. And someone said, did it make you punctual? And I said,
for my dad, yes, but still late for everybody else.
Well, that's good. He taught you that lesson. You could do it for him.
Yeah, that's right. I'm capable of it. Man of his word.
I asked you earlier about when you're happiest on stage, but what about in life? When are you most
happy? Being with the family, being able to make music, being able to watch our kids grow up.
It's a combination of things. So it feels more steady because I try and keep a balance
for that, if that makes sense. So that feeling of gratitude is the underpinning of most of it.
And when I keep that genuine gratitude, everything sits really nicely. Sometimes it's hard,
but no whining on the yacht. I think that is such a great phrase of yours,
but it's a very good one too because it's like, hello.
I know you need a good slap in the face sometimes. And he's like, are you kidding?
Shut the hell up. Look at you. And we all have it at different times in our life. We just
want to whine about something. And speaking of whining, often as a kid,
I remember I used to sort of be like, are we there yet? Are we there yet? Would you say
you're there with your life? Are you there yet? Well, in the sense of being in it and being in
the flow of it, yes, very much in the flow of it. Yeah. There isn't a destination. Definitely not.
There's just being in the day, being in the moment. Because that's it. There's even a line
in Night Falls that says, who knows if tomorrow is even going to come? And you don't. You don't
know. I think Willie Nelson said, live every day like it's your last because one day you'll be
right. Lovely blunt lyrics. That's good though. But he's spot on. Yeah, he's spot on. Because
we've got to make it count. We've got to make it matter now. Yeah. And it shouldn't take going to
a funeral or a wedding to go, I really need to rethink. And we all do it. We go to a funeral and
I'm like, I need to call my friends more often. We all do it. And it lasts about a week. And then
we're back to our own nonsense again and not calling people and taking things for granted.
I think it's human nature. But I try and pull myself back to the center again. Because it
goes wobbly. It goes off the rails. Get negative. Get depressed. All these various things. But I try
and reach out for help when I need it. That's a big one. And who will you reach out to? Oh,
I have all sorts of people. I mean, obviously Nick is number one. But yeah, I have great people
around me. A good tribe. Because you need different experiences, different points of view,
different wisdoms, different experiences to help you with what you're going through. Someone who's
been through it. There's nothing like it. Who gets you? Who gets what you're going through.
I think that's really important. Who really understands what you're going through. Yeah.
So it's not some sort of blanketed self-help nonsense. It's like literally targeted specific
to this thing that you're going through. There's nothing like someone who's been through it. And
that experience, strength, and hope helps. I read somewhere that you like to have a good cry
once a week. Or is it once a month? Oh, I don't know. You always feel better after a cry.
Don't you? Yeah. I mean, I'd rather not have to do it. But yeah. I mean, I think it's just
rain. It's the rain, right? It cleans out the streets and makes it all fresh and the sky looks
better and everything just feels better. Yeah. Yeah. The sky's bluer. It is. See,
everything's just a bit better. You just feel like, okay, a little more through whatever I was
struggling through just needed a good cry. Yeah. But guys aren't taught to, you know, it's a hard
thing. I mean, certainly the way I wasn't, you know, I think I probably got a little bit more
support for that because my dad was a drama, artistic, not sort of that thing, suck it up
nonsense. But I think that's a big problem for guys, especially this stereotyped BS
about suck it up. Like suck it up. No, that's the problem. I've been sucking shit up my whole life
and I can't suck anything more up. I'm done, you know. You've got to let it out. You just got to
let it out. Yeah. It's really important. It's extremely healthy. It's essential. It's essential.
Absolutely. It's why it's a great invention. It's a great invention. We've got a release
mechanism and we don't use it. It's crazy. And just finally, can you see yourself
still rocking it out on stage when you're 80? Oh, I just think about tomorrow
or not even then, just now. I mean, you know, like, I don't know. I really don't think too
much off into the future. And boy, if 2020 and 21 are shown as one thing, there's not much
planning we can do. I mean, 2021 has just been one big whiteboard with a dry race marker.
No permanent text is required. It's ridiculous. Isn't that the truth? Yeah. Yeah. You know,
it's been hell for control freaks, I'm sure. Well, I hope you are because I can't wait to see you
perform live. Thank you. My husband's been lucky enough to see you perform and he was just blown
away. He said he's never seen a performance like it. He's got to get out more, Jess.
He's a good egg, Peter. He is. You know, it's the highest compliment when you think about it,
isn't it? A good egg. It just means you were just born good. It's a really great compliment.
He is. I feel very lucky, actually, that I've found my other half too. We're a good team.
He's a keeper. He is a keeper. We've both found our keepers. Don't mess it up, Pete.
He won't. Keith, thank you so much. Thank you, Jess. It's been a joy. Yeah, I knew it would be.
Thank you. Oh, my goodness. Isn't Keith wise? With a capital W. I learned so much chatting with him.
Check out his new song, Night Falls. And now what about his phrase,
shine blocker? I haven't heard that before, but I'm going to be using that. And don't let anyone,
including yourself, block that glittery shine that I know you have. And for more beautiful,
big conversations like this, search the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show podcast. And you know what?
While you're there, I would love you to follow and to add me to your favourites. I mean,
surely I'm a favourite already, but if I'm not, make me a favourite because I never,
ever want you to miss an episode of my podcast. The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me,
Jess Rowe, executive producer, Nick McClure, audio producer, Nikki Sitch, supervising producer,
Sam Kavanagh. Until next time, remember to live big. Life is just too crazy and glorious
to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter. Listen up.