Even when you're with the most compassionate, Cam's got so much empathy, so emotionally
But he was a bit like, oh, wow, because the way that I am, it's hard to not accept, but
to be like, okay, this is serious.
And that was the challenge, you know, that he had to be like, okay, all right, I'm here
and I'm listening.
Because for me to turn and go like, I'm not okay, is kind of not in my natural, you know,
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe, and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
Jules Robinson first captured our attention when she really found love on the reality
TV show Married at First Sight.
She's also an entrepreneur, running three successful businesses, as well as being a
social media queen.
Jules and her husband Cam have been married for five years, and they're now just about
to welcome their second baby into the world.
And as if Jules hasn't got enough going on, she's also an author with her first book,
It's full of empowering life lessons, and I couldn't wait to get Jules into the studio
to share some of those lessons with you and her.
Jules, it's so great to see you, beautiful.
It's always a pleasure to see you, Jess.
Now there's no doubt about you, you manage to cram so much into your life.
You've got a new baby on the way, and you've got this beautiful new book called Ask Jules,
which I just adored, because there's fabulous advice in there for everyone.
And that's what I wanted.
I wanted to just add value that someone, if it's just one thing that someone goes, you
know what, I can do that too.
Because a lot of women come to me with those questions of like, I really need help with
my confidence or how I dress and, you know, that's a really powerful, special thing that
women feel comfortable to share their heart and soul with me.
And it's not some magic power that I have, like it's a conscious decision that I do every
day to be that person.
Why people ask you all these questions and why you've really connected with women is
you're unashamedly yourself and you say it as it is.
And of course, we first came to get to know you on reality TV and you found true love.
Like you actually found your fairytale ending.
I look back now and think we were so naive.
Did you expect that was going to happen?
I mean, like, let's be real, like season six was globally the series that went like, you
know, it was incredible.
There's so many different countries that were just obsessed with it because it was very
There was someone for everyone on there and the show wasn't what it is now.
Like it wasn't, it wasn't as huge.
I think it was huge to me.
The series you were on was kind of like the OG, so to speak.
It was sort of when it really everyone was watching it.
That's what I mean.
But before it, so I watched the series before and it was the one that was like, oh, what's
And everyone started watching it.
So for me, it just felt like a really extreme date.
But wait a minute, there's a difference between, oh, this is just a first date versus I'm walking
down the aisle in a wedding gown, marrying someone who I haven't laid eyes on before.
I know, it's crazy.
I said, well, really naive.
But I was at the point where I was like, I have looked the whole world, you know, and
I'm sharing the book like I had a proposal, I had all that.
But I just knew in my heart that it wasn't that love that I crave, that I really wanted
that special person that I just that consuming love that you just go, you're my one.
And what did you think, though, when you saw Cam, when you locked eyes on him for the first
Well, his best man was seven foot tall, so he looked extremely short next to him.
And I was like, oh, shit, he's really short.
That was the first thing I thought from behind.
You know, it's math.
You know, they wanted me to have ego and to walk away going like with the blinkers on
and say, oh, he's too short, because I made such a point of I wanted a big, tall man because
what I was used to.
But because I was so open to the opportunity and an open minded, open hearted to falling
I just was like when I saw his eyes and when he spoke, I was like, you're really kind.
And it felt good.
It felt really good.
And when he spoke, he mirrored my words.
It was just very clear that we had the same moral compass, the same values, and it just
That's the only way I can explain it.
It wasn't love at first sight.
It was vibe at first sight.
And I look back on it now, and it's such a special thing to have to be able to show my
That's how we met.
And it's also such a surreal thing.
Someone like myself, I've only dabbled in reality TV doing an excruciating show called
The Real Dirty Dancing, which was good, but also-
Which you were freaking awesome in.
Well, reality TV isn't really reality.
I don't know how you did it and how you were still yourself in that crazy world.
Well funny enough, when you get to the part where your parents then come together, both
sets of parents come together, and because with reality TV you have to learn to say the
question and the answer, you just become a robot and my family were like, what has happened
Why are you talking like that?
Because otherwise if you just say an answer, the audience is like, what are you talking
So you've got to learn how to talk in reality TV.
But my parents are like, who are you?
What's happened to you in this three months everyone that you were filming?
It's such a long time.
But you just had to be yourself.
And under that toxic bubble, it is hard work.
And on TV it kind of looks like it's six weeks.
But we just, we went through the ups and downs in there and the toxicity and the certain
people that were a bit difficult, let's put it that way.
And we just ended up doing that full circle of like, we're here for us, let's just reel
it back to just focus on us again.
And that's how we got through it.
I mean, I've broken maps.
Like, it's a lot.
And watching it this year, I dabbled, you know, just dinner parties and commitment ceremonies.
And I actually uploaded an Instagram story and I was like, they're dead behind the eyes.
Like I knew the point where they were out where everyone's like, chuck me out.
And you can see in their eyes, they've just got nothing else to offer.
They're like, get me out of here.
So give us then a sense, that sort of insider view, because with you saying you and Cam
sort of early on were like, let's just do us.
Even on that very first night that you were together, Cam shooed the producers out, didn't
Your wedding night.
So tell us about that.
Like I've never really, you know, I've never, I'm so grateful for my experience.
Channel 9 have always been amazing to me and I've never set them on fire in any way.
But I've just shared in the book things that happened that are my personal feelings that
And when we got back to our, after our wedding night into our hotel room and very romantic
with the whole set crew, like filming us in bed, the producer who wasn't usually our producer
was just being a little bit sexual and he was saying, okay, now kiss and, and now do
this and, you know, and it just, it made me really uncomfortable.
And I just kind of whispered to Cam, I don't, I don't feel really nice with this.
And he just got out of bed, crossed his arms and went, okay, we're done.
Like we've had a big day and in my head I was like, oh, he's my six foot five man.
He was no longer short.
He was no longer short.
He was the biggest man in the world to me then and he still is.
And it was, yeah, it was just a really beautiful moment that he just stood up for me because
I was like, I'm not feeling this.
Like it was just really uncomfortable.
I was like, I'm not here to perform.
I'm here to be myself and I'm not going to like put on a show by any means.
So they went and we put on our wedding song that, which obviously, which I still believe
to this day, the production just stopped playing our wedding songs so we couldn't dance because
it was all going too well.
They're like, this feels like a wedding.
And we just danced around and we spoke for hours in bed and it was beautiful.
And also that first night you revealed that you woke up just in floods of tears, that
You were just sobbing because it's bizarre to think what you went through in such a short
What was that about?
We had seven days notice, which I share in the book.
Like I still convinced we were a little last minute ring in because when I got to know
all the brides and they were like, we had like two months notice, I'm like, I had seven
days to shut my life down and to organise everything.
So I hadn't really slept very much for a week.
And on my wedding day, as everyone got to see on TV, I had a meltdown and I remember
being on the verge of like that ugly shaking cry, you know, when you just can't come back
from it and your face is just destroyed for the next 48 hours.
And I just was like, oh, if I start, I'm not going to stop.
The only perk was my eyes were electric green that day I got married.
Whenever I watched that, when I watched my wedding back, I'm like, God, my eyes look
But I just was a bit of a mess, like from not sleeping at all.
And then so when I had the first night with Cam, we managed to stay up to 2am, even though
we're exhausted talking and it must have been about 4am and I was obviously having a nightmare.
And then I started crying in my sleep and I woke up crying and I was like, oh my God,
I've just met this man and I'm like, wake up like this, you know, cray cray woman sobbing.
And he just put his arm around me and he's like, it's okay.
And I just said, oh, it's just a lot.
And we went back to sleep.
But then when I woke up in the morning, I was like, did that happen?
You and you're just not sure if it actually happened or if you dreamt it and then nothing
And then about an hour later, he's like, oh, do you remember what happened last night?
And I was like, oh, shit, we're done here.
Like, he's married.
He's going to think I'm too hard.
And I just said, oh, I think it's just been a bit of a buildup.
The beautiful thing from that is, is that, you know, that is me.
I've fallen a heap sometimes and, you know, he picks me up and says, it's all going to
And it always is.
And it was just, it just showed what a beautiful, emotionally intelligent man he was, that he
was like, it's okay.
I totally understand.
Like, I'm feeling the same, but we just, we, I guess, regulate differently.
I'm just like, oh, you know, have a cry.
And then I'm like, okay, I'm back, guys.
But no, it's, it's been really lovely, actually, to share those little behind the scenes stories
from our experience, because it was just so amazing how emotionally invested people were
in our relationship.
And even when I spent some time in England last year for four months launching Figure
and working with ITV, doing fashion, inclusive fashion on this morning, the morning program,
all the makeup artists in the hair and makeup were like, watching you guys through COVID
Which is why it was such a success as well, was this beacon of light of hope of like,
I'm going to get that when I get out of lockdown.
And obviously they're in lockdown for so long.
So it's been a really amazing thing.
And you know, when women still to this day will stop me in the street and beeline me
and I'll be like, oh my God, have I met you?
I don't know who you are.
And talk to me like they know me and just say, you've absolutely made me believe that
I'm going to find my guy and I'm going to hold out for that love.
And I'm like, that makes me feel amazing.
And I always say, if I've done that in the world, then I'm doing a good thing.
And we all want that, I think, happy ending, even though we know life is hard and messy
and complex and complicated, which you do talk about in your book as well.
So what I want to talk about now is the trolling that you talk about that you hadn't expected
and was just horrific, what you had to endure coming out of that reality TV experience,
because nothing prepares you for that.
I mean, even 48 hours ago, Ninehoney did a really beautiful interview with me with my
book and the baby and someone commented underneath saying, I hope it's a miscarriage, you know,
like that still happens.
And so I actually shared it on my stories and I said, this is why I didn't announce
my pregnancy to protect myself from stuff like this, because it's not normal.
And again, fortunately, the universe looking after me when that happened through my first
pregnancy with Ollie, I was having a good day.
So wait a minute.
You're getting this now and you also got it during your first pregnancy with Ollie.
Which is why I chose to announce, I mean, I announced Ollie at the 11th where I had
to, like I was popping.
So it was like 21 or 22 weeks when I announced Ollie.
For that reason, I just to protect myself from and obviously 99.9% of it is love, but
and why I've got this beautiful rapport is that I do try and keep up with everyone and
I have a little rule that when I'm on my phone, I will answer that if I have time, I open
up the 10 at the top, you know, and I'll get back to people and people appreciate it.
But then unfortunately, then you see some nasty things as well.
But that is not OK.
And that makes me outraged on your behalf.
And of course, we can sort of put on our sort of logical hats and say, well, obviously,
they're the ones with the problem.
But still, it is not OK.
And how do you process that?
Yeah. Well, as I said, like, fortunately, when it's happened those two times, I've had
a message like that. I was having a good day, you know, but let's face it, when you're
pregnancy, it is the hormonal roller coaster where sometimes I'm not OK, you know, and
I'm just very emotional and feeling vulnerable and broken.
And I just thought if I was having a bad day, like that message would really, really hurt
me. And I've become obviously I've always been very resilient.
That's one trait that I am. But through this mass experience of getting that, you know,
let's face it, I wasn't like a villain or anything.
I was the love story.
And so what if you are a villain?
I know. But this is what I'm saying. I say in the book, no one deserves that.
My heart goes out to all of my cast or anyone in reality where people go, well, that's what
you get when you go on reality.
No, it's not normal to be spoken to like that.
You're not prepared in any way.
And I think what I've gone through, imagine what the people who were doing things on
television that, let's face it, probably 90 percent of people have done, you know, but
they've just done it for entertainment because they're working themselves out through
their life. And it's just the judgment that comes with it.
And so you're not prepared for it.
I've had to do a lot of work on myself to get my little bubble around me that protects
me. And it bounces off through kinesiology, through light work.
And, you know, I'm into that kind of thing.
And it does help me. It does help me.
But eventually, at some point, you've just got to go like you just get tough, you know,
you just let it bounce off you and try not to let it affect you.
And in a way, like it's actually helped my confidence as a woman, like with the body
shaming and all that and just the insults of my appearance that is actually you just
got to step in and go like, well, this is me and I really like myself and I'm happy
with myself. So it's actually made me more confident because eventually you just got
to go, it doesn't matter and it doesn't matter.
But absolutely, it took me a while to get there because it's not something that you're
prepared for to go through.
And unfortunately, you know, it took me back to being bullied at school, like just those
triggering feelings where and that's where I turned that pain into power and created
a figure and never wanted to go back to that young girl to feel like I wasn't going to
be a success because I wasn't skinny or just that 90s mentality that a lot of women felt.
And that's where I created the figure and the brand.
So and that's been a very organic evolution, too, of just putting so much of myself into
it and that messaging. And, you know, it's been an amazing experience that so many women
connect to it and they relate to the soul of it and why my messaging behind it.
And you talk there about it triggering things for when you were younger, because when you
were 13, you had an eating disorder.
And that was definitely sparked from that era of the supermodels and all the magazines
and everything like that. And it's just it didn't last very long.
And it wasn't something that needed, you know, extensive care.
But my parents were obviously very concerned.
I just wasn't eating. I look back at photos and I'm like, I'm so skinny.
And that's not naturally me.
It's just not naturally who I am.
And it was a lot of upkeep to try and to be that person when I was like 13 years old.
But it was just the exterior influences of you're not beautiful unless you're a size
zero. And that was just so bombarded into us.
And a lot of my girlfriends felt that way when we talk about it now, like it just ignited
a generation of women that felt like they were not going to make it unless they were
really skinny. And that was beautiful.
So eventually, you know, worked my way through that.
And then my hips appeared and covered in bruises, not learning my radius of how big
they were, walking into things.
I'm like, OK, these are here to stay.
But you've got this heavenly hourglass figure.
And what I really enjoyed reading in your book, and I found this quite fascinating
when you say that being in the public eye helped you reach that level of acceptance
with your body. Yes.
Well, that's what I mean. Like eventually, you've just got to go like you step forward
and you get judged. You step back, you move left or right.
If you stand still and do nothing, you get judged.
So you've just got to have integrity, be happy with yourself, do what you want to do.
As long as you're not hurting anyone along the way.
And you're like, well, it's fine.
And it had to because eventually at some point, if I give that any power, I'm going to be
a wreck. People telling me I'm fat and I'm ugly and this and I'm all these different
names. And so eventually, you've just got to just love yourself, you know.
And I know that sounds a lot easier said than done, but it definitely has.
It has helped me because if I succumb to that, I would be a shell of a woman.
So it's been an interesting ride, that's for sure.
And a ride that you've shared with so many of us.
And there'd be women listening who would be at a point in their lives where they might
be thinking, I'm not enough or no, I don't feel sexy or I'm not in this shape that I
want to be in. What would you tell them?
Well, funny enough, it's not in the books.
I hadn't found the lady yet that sent me the message to get it approved, but it's in
the audible. And this beautiful woman, Bianca, reached out to me and she just said,
Look, it's so lucky when you see the message and you're like, I like I do, I get so
many messages. And I was like, I was meant to read this.
And I get a lot of messages like this, which just absolutely, you know, it's just so
beautiful. But this one message was, you know, I'm 42 and I was feeling really
unconfident, really unsexy and just not happy with how I look.
And one of my friends said, go find someone on Instagram that you find that you love
their style and how they look.
And she goes, and there you were like, you popped up on my feed.
I saw you and I thought that you were really powerful and you were beautiful.
And then I thought to myself, she's got the same body shape as me, but why do I find
her so beautiful? But I don't find myself.
And she said, and just like a little nod from the universe, I saw beauty in me
through you. And I was like, oh, like I was bawling, I was like, kiss me goosebumps
now. You know, and I think comparison is always the thief of joy.
And I think because I am very much just standard Australian woman body shape, you
know, and I think as women see themselves from reflection through me.
So I think by that woman just having that realisation of like, I'm actually really
similar. So why do I admire her?
And I don't look at myself like that.
So just reframing your mindset is so important to how you feel about yourself and
just being kind to you.
Like, of course, we all feel shit some days.
You know, you wake up and you're like, yeah, and you're like, honour that.
That's fine. We're human.
But in the other times, like it is OK to say I look fricking awesome and I'm happy
with me. Like, there's a funny part in the book with my cousin, who when we're
growing up, she goes, you're so stuck up, you love yourself.
And I used to feel like that was the biggest insult as a teenager girl, like growing
up. And now I'm like, good on me.
I loved myself like even when I was younger and we laugh about it now.
But it's kind of I don't know, there's like there's nothing wrong with loving
yourself. And of course, absolutely.
I haven't, you know, I've had moments of despair and that confidence has been
crushed and, you know, build it back up again.
But I feel like with women, it's like there's no, you know, you see a man is
really confident and like, oh, it's got this aura.
And it's like, well, women should own that, too.
Like, it's OK to look at yourself and feel great and to radiate that and to be like,
feel really good about how I look and who I am.
And why not just come out and say it and to love ourselves?
I think that is such a powerful and important message.
Yeah. Often as women, I know I do it sometimes.
I'll sort of make excuses or be apologetic for what I'm thinking or what I need.
Yeah. And still, at the age of 53, I think no.
Yeah. You know, you are enough.
You are just right the way you are.
Totally. I remember when you got trolled in your bikini walking out like and you
looked freaking amazing. Like, I literally looked at that as a woman that admires
other women and their strength and who they are.
And I was like, sorry, I was about to swear then.
I was like, golly, like, do you know what I mean?
And then you just get like you have to also have emotional intelligence to go.
You know what? The people writing that to you obviously aren't happy.
And that's what it comes down to, because as a woman, I'm just such a believer of
if you have confidence in yourself, you love yourself.
You know, you're freaking great. You don't lead with hate or jealousy.
You just admire other women.
That becomes gratitude.
That becomes a revolving door of positivity.
And then you just give and take and you attract that.
And of course, yes, shit things happen and people do shitty things to you.
But that's your tribe, right?
Because you're giving that out.
And I'm just such a believer of that to just back other women and support them.
And so, yeah, when I saw that with you, I was like, God, it blows my mind.
Like, and the thing is, your body shape is what, you know, generally people go,
that's the epitome of beauty.
And it's like, still, you can't win.
And that's my point. You can't.
You just got to go.
I'm living. I'm breathing. I'm healthy.
My body has served me.
Yeah. And this is me.
And I'm enough and I'm strong. Totally.
Oh, thank you. That's gorgeous.
And let's talk about those moments when you do feel despair, when you are down,
because even though you are very positive in the book, you talk about times
where I think you're quite tough on yourself,
that you put a lot of expectation on yourself around having things together
all the time, having a beautiful house, everything clean, everything organized.
Yeah, good. We've got to let that stuff go.
And also that kind of burnout and exhaustion, because you do take a lot on.
What does burnout look like for you?
Well, I've definitely inherited that from my father.
He's like a proper grafter.
Like, if he closes his eyes and naps, he'd be like on the couch and be like,
I just rested my eyes, you know, it's like demasculizing.
So in a way, it is it's one of my superpowers.
Like I get shit done.
But I am hard on myself that I don't give myself
sometimes the time to really unwind.
And in the last 14 months, I've really have tried my best.
And it's absolutely helped me conceive.
And I know everyone has their own difficulties with conceiving.
But my wellness journey is an emotional one because I know it's something
that I've let myself to get to rock bottom.
I share in my wellness journey when I went to Bali.
And even when I read that through Audible, it still made me emotional
because I got to Bali with Cam on a yoga retreat.
And I've, you know, the power of Ubud and it's, you know,
how it is magical and mystical there.
But I just burst into tears in this room of people I'd never met before
doing this wellness journey of the wheel of what we're learning that week
and doing yoga. And I just burst into tears.
I was like, I just knew how much I needed to be there.
And that was really my wake up call of don't get to the point of,
you know, that old saying put your oxygen mask on before everyone else's.
And I just I love my life.
I love everything I've created with it.
And I want to keep up with it.
But I can't sustain that if I don't take care of myself.
And so in that moment, when you were there on the retreat,
and as you say, you did burst into tears.
What was it that you were thinking?
Just how, I guess, emotionally broken I felt,
like because I just was worn out, I was just worn out and I was tired.
And I think, you know, we'd been trying for a baby for some time.
And I just I knew in my heart that my body's like, oh, I'm fired.
I'm not giving you a baby, you know, like I'm just adrenaline fight or flight.
And I was just exhausted by everything.
And then when I was still there, I was still being pushed for content and things.
And I just felt so I had no boundaries up of what what you need.
Yes, what I needed.
And that's hard, isn't it?
Yes. And also when you've got, you know, a family and kids and that, you know,
you've got your glass balls and you're juggling and some are plastic, some are glass.
Your babies are always your glass and you've got to put them first in certain situations.
But I've just really learned that wellness journey in the last year just to fight from
meditation. I went into a course on that and learned how to really tap into that.
Again, I think what's so fascinating about you, Jules, is that, OK, you go through that,
but then you think, OK, what can I do? What's this list of things?
But before you get to that, when you went on that wellness retreat and then you thought you
were ready to come home, but then you got to the airport, what happened?
Another great, great moment in my life.
So I left to go to the airport and I checked in everything.
And then my husband just had a sixth sense.
He was at a seminar, a business seminar, like a be the best version of yourself kind of course.
And I was meant to get off the plane, fly to Melbourne from Bali and turn up at this
course. Again, just going straight into it, not coming down from this two weeks of zen
that I'd been on. I had every kind of healing and yoga and meditation and it was absolutely
beautiful. And he just came out of the room and he messaged like, are you OK?
And I just wrote back to him, I said, I don't think I'm ready to come home.
I just don't. And he actually said, fuck it, you do whatever you want to do.
And I was like, yeah.
And I'm like, the story would be so much better if I got on the plane and had to rush off.
Just like in the movies.
But I was at the gate and I was like, you know what, I'm going to stay.
So I messaged the place that I was at, Escape Haven,
which I'm going back to next week by myself, which is going to be amazing.
Now that's special, isn't it? That you've carved out,
you've realised you need that time to keep having that time.
Yep. And so I ran back through the airport like a crazy woman.
And then I got to the desk and everyone at the check in, like they were all Indonesian.
And then there was this one lady, Patty, never forget her.
And she just looked at me and she went, are you okay?
And someone says, are you okay? And I was like, and you just start crying.
I was like, I'm not. I just can't leave. I can't go home.
And she was like, it's okay. Whatever you need, we're going to fix it.
And I was like, thank you.
And she was just freaking amazing.
And my ticket was actually one that I could change.
And she was like, whatever you need, she went to the desk and she went,
whatever this woman needs, change a day.
She would have done it for me for absolutely nothing.
And I was like, her kindness was just unforgettable.
And they got my bag back, went back, checked back into Escape Haven
and they had welcome back jewels.
And they're like, we knew you weren't ready to go.
And I spent another five days there and I was like, okay, I'm good.
And as I said, like next week, I'm going back there for a week.
It's a women's only retreat.
And just you get a wellness Monday to Sunday of every hour,
what you're doing to take care of yourself.
And I can't wait, Jess. I'm so excited.
Well, even seeing the way your face changes, Jules, when you talk about that,
I can just see the, ah, because life is full on.
And I think often as women too, we take on so much,
whether it be caring for older parents, maybe kids, whatever.
But there's a lot of caring that we do for everyone else around us,
plus keeping our businesses going or whatever it might be,
that we do lose ourselves in that.
And was it that you found that you'd lost yourself?
I just was go, go, go.
And as I said, I just wasn't taking care of my wellbeing.
And I just was, you know, I know that when I am like that,
I get to the point if I wake up at 2am, I'm on for the rest of the day
because my mind is on.
And that's when I know that I'm like, OK, I'm obviously going too fast.
I need to slow down a little bit.
So I'm getting there.
And it's obviously it's something that, you know,
I'm being conditioned my whole life to be that person.
Absolutely. It's made me be successful wherever I put my heart and soul into.
But the contradiction is that I do get to myself to the point where I'm like, OK,
this doesn't feel good.
But an interesting topic in that regard where, you know,
Cam was away a couple of weeks ago for 12 days.
And it's funny because on social media as well,
that's another thing that I get is that if I'm away
or I'm doing something fabulous, I do get messages of like,
I'll go home to your child and things like that.
And I always think Cam doesn't get messages like that.
Just because I'm a female and I birth my child
does not mean I have to be with them 24 seven.
I'm so really strong about in the book that like we had a child together
and we co-parent together and we have that responsibility to share.
And one of my astral tips is I absolutely believe now
from going through this process that if you're going to have a baby
with someone like have those hard conversations,
like what's your what do you see your role as in this as a parent?
Because I know that if Cam and I didn't have the same values
and we didn't let each other give the time to still be individuals,
that would affect my relationship.
And I'm just wholeheartedly being honest with that to say
it would cause a divide because we're empowering women to go out,
live their dreams, be themselves, go do all these things.
But if things don't change at home, we're not empowering them.
We're actually exploiting them to do too much.
And that's why I'm so grateful that I've got a partner
that we absolutely are a team when it comes to like,
you go do your thing, I'll do this.
You go do that, I'll do that.
But people still think it's not in 50.
And I think I know that in one regard,
it has been times where it's been a little bit hard in that.
I'm like, Cam, if you overshare, then people go
because I just don't do as much as him.
And when you say overshare, you mean where he will post things,
where he's doing things with Ollie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And people will be going, well, Jules isn't there.
But again, people then have this sense of entitlement to then also to comment on it,
which is difficult because I think we live in this social media world
where we do share a lot more of our lives.
People know more about us, but there's still a line.
And I don't think that then entitles people to weigh into how you do you.
Yes. When I was working that out as well,
which is around when I went to Bali in the Mummy Guild
of the first year of parenting, I'm like, oh my God, am I doing enough?
And because it was triggered and it flickered in me,
and I always believe that when something does hurt your feelings,
it's because you're still not 100% there and you're working it out.
Like when it comes to seeing people going, oh, you're fat.
I'm like, whatever, I'm freaking fabulous, you know?
But when it came to that one of my son, now it rolls off me
because I know I'm doing everything in my power to fill that cup
and I've worked it out, but it would upset me.
And that's when I argue with Cam and we get an argument, which is awful.
And then I eventually went, no, you keep on being that man
because it's showing people that, you know what?
We're equal when it comes to this role.
We're absolutely equal just because we're female.
I know, obviously, you carry a child
and it's a different connection in different ways.
But when it comes to, as I said, like giving your partner
just that space to still be an individual
and do everything they want to do, we need to be balanced at home.
And that's where it comes that we both, you know, still do our own thing.
We're very different, Cam and I.
We are very different.
We lead very different lives.
So, yeah, it's been a tough one that I navigate through
because let's face it, when it's your child, like you just turned into a lioness, don't you?
Of course you do.
And also, but that idea of mother guilt is such a biggie too.
I think it's so hard to get away from
and the point that you make too that blokes don't feel it.
But I've sort of come to realise, like my girls and our teenagers,
that it doesn't matter how much time we spend with our kids,
it's never enough in inverted commas.
Like if they could be with us 24-7, they'd still want to eke out
and let's get another hour from her or whatever.
And so it comes back to, I think, that idea of being gentle on ourselves
and backing ourselves and not buying into this kind of myth
of what being a good mum actually looks like.
It's really what works for you and for your family.
And I think as well, Jules, reading in your book,
you talk about this time when you were at that rock bottom,
when you went to see a GP, they prescribed antidepressants,
but you put them in the fridge, you didn't take them.
They're still there.
And see, what are you doing, honey?
Like I'm a massive fan of my antidepressants.
And when I read that, I thought, hey, what's that about?
Did you feel ashamed?
No, I didn't feel ashamed because I took them.
I took them with me.
And when I got diagnosed with the PMDD, premenstrual disorder,
she said, you know, take them on day 14 up until you get your period.
So basically it's going to help that chemical imbalance in your brain.
But I just, for me, I just thought,
I want to try a different route first before.
And I absolutely, like you say, they work for you.
But I just was like, let me just try something else first.
I just didn't feel like it was my first go-to
because I hadn't tried anything else.
Like even in primrose, I always take it as a teenage.
Now it's my ashwagha.
I can never say that word right, but it's really good stuff, everyone.
Like that helped as well a little bit when I was premenstrual.
So I just really explored like the Ayurvedic medicine
and I went down that route and I went and saw a shaman
and he's amazing and literally took my pulse, opened my mouth
and he was like, it's your hormones and your metabolism.
Within two seconds and everything I'd done after that,
it was starting to help and obviously fell pregnant.
And now it's been the blessing of being pregnant, not having that.
It is a little time bomb that's ticking off.
How am I going to react?
And interestingly, I went to the Gidget Foundation event last week
Which is for post-adult depression.
It's an extraordinary organisation.
And obviously there's this beautiful reel on the screen
and I was like holding back the sob, you know,
because it just totally reminded me of how I felt
after I started breastfeeding.
Like you just know, like when you just know like,
okay, I know we're on this fourth trimester,
the roller coaster and the hormones and everything
and there's slightly oxytocin and the moment you're crying
because you're so in love and the next minute you're like,
oh my God, you know, it's a lot.
And I just knew that I didn't feel right
and I knew in my heart and obviously it took a year
to be diagnosed and then it took me another year
before I actually spoke about it publicly.
So it wasn't post-natal depression.
But so explain then so what the PMDD is.
Explain that to us.
So premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
So they say 8% of Australian women have it.
I think 8% of my Instagram following have it to be honest
and a lot of women and I really tried to keep up
with all the messages because it was so personal as well.
And a lot of women were saying like they've gone to the doctors
and the doctors are Googling like what is PMDD?
Like there's not enough awareness of it
and as a collective in Australia,
we're doing so well with menopause
and being open with these conversations
and there's just not enough knowledge around it.
And basically PMDD is it's like PMS,
which all women go through.
And this is another thing that women were saying
like all their partners or their moms are just like,
oh, well, you're just a woman.
It's the part and parcel of getting periods
and everyone feels a bit shitty around that time, right?
We all, you know, some women don't
but generally most people get a bit emotional.
They get a bit erratic and you know, you're just like,
oh my God, I know what's coming in my mouth
and I can't stop it.
Like that's just what happens
and it'd be difficult for people.
I'd always suffered even the first day I met Cam.
I said to him, I'll put me under the stairs once a month
and made a joke out of it.
And I'd always, you know, just always made it funny
but I struggled and then after I had Ollie
and my periods came back,
it just hit me like a ton of bricks
and online it will say you've got, you know,
a little bit of depression or anxiety, mood swings like,
but this is, you know, it's extreme.
And then magically in a couple of days,
you're back to who you are
and you feel like you need to run your diary around it
because you just can't function, you know.
I'm very lucky in the sense that I've learned
to honor that time like I was learning to honor it
and be like, I'm in a position where I can actually say,
you know what, today I'm just going to do nothing
because I know I'm no good to anyone.
And giving yourself permission.
Giving yourself permission, giving yourself that grace
to say, you know what, you feel like this,
let's just ride it out.
But it's every month of your life that you feel like that.
And for me, I just had those moments
when it was really bad where I had some really dark thoughts
and it was when I was in Bali
and that was when I came back from the airport
and I just was like, oh, this is when I went to the doctor
and I went, okay, this is not me.
Like, I know I'm a very upbeat, you know,
high frequency person, you know,
and I'm always happy, I'm generally a happy person.
As you say, you are upbeat,
but often that can come with the pressure
to always be like that.
When you say dark thoughts, what do you mean?
Yeah, the worst thoughts you could have on yourself.
And I was like, where's this voice coming from?
And that's what scared me because I was like,
I've never thought like that way in my life
about anything or myself.
So that's when I was like, okay.
And then with Cam, even when you're with
the most compassionate, Cam's got so much empathy,
so emotionally intelligent, but he was a bit like,
oh, wow, because the way that I am, you know,
and it's hard to not accept, but to be like,
okay, this is serious.
And that was the challenge, you know,
that he had to be like, okay, all right,
I'm here and I'm listening.
Because for me to turn and go like, I'm not okay,
is kind of not in my natural, you know,
I'm always okay, you know, and I was like.
That's confronting for a partner to hear that,
hey, I'm not okay.
And with that then in mind, thinking about,
you've got your beautiful second baby
about to arrive soon.
And as you say, though, there's that question mark
What's going to have, how I'm going to feel.
Yes, and how are you going to manage that?
And I hope you're going to be gentle on yourself.
Do you know what, when I went to that event last week,
it actually was so comforting to go like,
there's so much support out there for women,
like that charity is incredible.
And I just thought to myself, if I need that,
I'm just going to pick up the phone and call.
And I can only pray that my wellness journey
through this pregnancy and how much I've been looking
after myself, like spiritually and physically,
and that it might help in some way.
You know, that's how I'm choosing to reframe it.
So, and obviously I'm so much more knowledgeable around
this time that I can almost prepare myself in a way.
When you can put a name, I think, to what you're experiencing,
it loses some of its control or power over you.
I know with me, with the postnatal depression,
when I was diagnosed and my psychiatrist explained why
I was feeling the way I was feeling,
wasn't like I suddenly got better,
but it took a bit of weight off my shoulders
because I suddenly was like, oh, I'm not a bad mum
or I'm not a failure.
I simply have an illness that I need help to get through.
And so I hope very much for you, Jules,
that you also are gentle on yourself in that way.
Because I mean, you're extraordinary.
You've got three businesses.
You're an amazing entrepreneur.
You do so much content creation.
You've got so much that you juggle and make happen
that I hope you don't lose sight of what you need
in the midst of all of that.
Yes, and that's something that I've always working on,
you know, and I'm doing so much better.
I'm not saying I'm nailing it by any means,
but I'm doing so much better at listening to myself,
listening to my body and having, like,
when I relaxed my husband's voice,
I was like, God, I'm so proud of you.
Just marinating on the couch there doing nothing.
Sometimes it can be difficult when you're feeling burnt out
and exhausted, it's like, well, I'd love to go to Bali,
Or it can be difficult to have a big change,
but you have a do in a day.
Yeah, yeah, just a do in a day.
Tell us about that.
That's the days when Cam's like, I'm so proud of you.
Like, he gets literally gets off on watching me do nothing,
which is a really lovely thing.
And one thing I do which talk about in the book is like,
not everyone can have that luxury of going to go do something extra fabulous,
but my bedroom at home, it has to be a clean space,
clean space, clean mind.
It just helps me go, oh, this is my little part of my house.
And I think everyone can do that.
A little corner in their house or their room or whatever,
just their little place that they like.
This feels like, you know, it's really dumb.
It's almost like an obsession, but even at night time,
the building mirrored wardrobes, I'm like, Cam, you have to close it.
I just have to have everything neat.
Yeah, it just makes me go like, okay, I'm in a good place.
It's like making your bed and open your windows, things like that.
It just makes you go, okay, I'm in control.
And that's one space that I do try and keep like that.
But I have to also say that when I went to the Gidget thing as well,
it was just such a reminder of what we go through as women
and the birthing process.
I think, you know, we always go, you know, takes the village.
And I want to find this village.
Because we don't have the lives that we had back in the days
with the caves and everyone came and looked and nurtured
and don't have that.
And that's why like this week, actually, I keep on putting it off.
But there's two websites, Care, and I think it's called Hamble
or something, and they're like Mother Care.
And I'm actually going to reach out and have someone come and help me every day.
And of course, that's not, you know, I have to pull back from somewhere
with cost to make that happen.
But I know it's going to make me a better present mum
because all that stuff that I don't have time, like I don't.
And I'm not being like I don't have time for it.
And because, as you're saying, I am that person, like everything to be perfect.
That time should be with my son and being 100% focused with him and my family,
not going like, oh, I've got to do that and I'm going to do this
and I'm going to do that.
So it's one of those things where I'm like,
I'm going to find somewhere to pull back from and throw money at the situation
and go, you know what, this is going to make my well-being
and my family life better.
Having someone to come and help me because I don't have that.
I have a beautiful neighbour who I don't know how I would have got through.
Dawnie in her 70s.
I just absolutely adore that woman.
So we all kind of need a Dawnie, don't we?
You do need a Dawnie.
But also at the same time, I think what's so important, Jules, to remember is
take some of that pressure off.
And I especially remember when my girls were tiny, I would do things like
I'd lock myself in the bathroom and sit on my phone just to have a moment's peace.
So I think for you and for our listeners,
just do whatever is going to get you through that moment.
And be enough, be a wonderful, fabulous self, just like you are, Jules.
And it's such a joy to have you on the podcast.
Thanks so much for having me.
Thanks for coming in.
Always love having a chit chat with you.
Okay, lovely listeners.
I hope you're all going to be doing a Doona Day.
That is what I am going to be incorporating into my routine.
It doesn't even have to necessarily be a full day,
but just giving ourselves permission to stop,
to take time to do what it is we need to fill up our cup.
So please do that for you as well.
Now, you can discover more life lessons from Jules in her lovely new book,
I especially enjoyed the sections where she talks about how we can manage burnout,
because I don't know about you, but we are juggling a whole lot at the moment.
We have so many incredible guests for you this year
on the Jessro Big Talk Show podcast.
And it would mean so much to me if you subscribe to the show.
It means you can have all of these great conversations
and they're going to be quicker for you to access in the app.
So you'll never ever have to go searching for an episode.
Now, if there is someone in your life who you think will enjoy this chat,
why not share it with them?
All you need to do is to tap the three dots on your screen and pass it on.
Now, if you enjoyed my chat with Jules,
I reckon you're going to love my conversation with Michelle Bridges.
It was a time where I just had to allow myself to be completely vulnerable.
And I just leaned into it because there was nothing else I could do, girlfriend.
I just leaned into it.
And what got me through was my family, my friends, and complete strangers.
The Jessro Big Talk Show is hosted by me, Jessro,
executive producer Nick McClure.
She's a wonderful leopard lady, audio imager Nat Marshall,
supervising producer Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.