A listener production.
I can't put into words how real that was.
It was like my heart knew what happened
without my brain even knowing the facts.
My heart was shattering into a million pieces
without me actually even knowing what had happened yet.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe, and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show,
a podcast that skips the small talk and goes big and deep.
From love to loss and everything in between,
I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together
in these raw and honest conversations
about the things that matter.
Model, podcaster, author, and influencer,
Elodie Pullen is well-recognised
as the wife of the late Alex Chumpy Pullen.
Ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pleasure
to announce that the flag bearer
for the 2014 Australian Olympic team is Alex Pullen.
The loss of her soulmate in a devastating accident
set her on a path to finding strength
and keeping his memory alive
through the birth of their daughter Minnie,
something made possible through IVF.
Elodie's powerful story has resonated
with people across the world.
I had the most wonderful chat with Elodie.
As you know, lovely listeners, I'm not a swearer.
Elodie isn't good on her,
so if you've got some littlies around,
maybe turn the volume down when it comes to those swear words.
Elodie, I cannot tell you how special it is
to clap eyes on your beautiful face
and to get the opportunity to talk with you
because you strike me as someone.
You radiate hope.
Oh, really? I feel the same way about you.
You're a bloody icon.
I'm just delighted that you wanted me on here.
Oh, I tell you what, you are next level
because your story and your experiences
that you've shared with us in such a vulnerable, open way,
I think you're a superhero.
Thank you so much.
I do not feel that way.
Lots of people, I mean, when people say,
oh, you're such an inspiration,
I'm like, I did not set out to be an inspiration.
I never thought I would be, you know,
doing inspirational things at all.
So, I mean, I don't feel that way at all,
but thank you so much.
How is it that you manage to still stay afloat
when you're grappling with the worst thing
that any of us could possibly comprehend?
That is, you know, losing your extraordinary soulmate.
I know, I think I am super lucky
to have the village of support around me that I do
and people just lifting me up
and getting me out of the house initially
and just like getting me through.
But then of course I had my love Chumpy who passed away.
So we've got little baby Minnie, his little girl.
I don't know what I would do without her, honestly.
I think I put it down to her now.
Initially I put it down to everyone else around me,
picking me up, but no, it's her now.
She's just, I live for Minnie.
Well, let's talk about Minnie.
She radiates joy.
She's got this incredible face.
She seems to be reaching out to everyone around her.
She wants to almost get every moment in the world,
That is so funny that you say that.
I honestly put it down to maybe it's her dad
coming through her or he was very much like, you know,
he was pretty alive and alert and had the energy.
I'm pretty like off with the fairies most of the time.
So maybe she gets that from her dad.
Well, what a beautiful team you did make.
And let's just talk a little bit about that for a moment
because I read your extraordinary memoir, Heart Strong,
and you talk about moments when you very much feel
that Chumpy is still with you,
that he's there with you through your daughter,
through your gorgeous dog, through the ocean,
through all these different ways.
He's still very present in a sense.
Yeah, I was never one of those intuitive people before,
but you feel like the energy around you.
And, you know, I've never had this happen before.
I've never had someone so close to me
that's like basically a part of my body just like be gone.
And it didn't really feel like he was gone at the start.
He was definitely around.
And I think they say that when someone kind of crosses over,
they're really around you heaps in the initial phases.
But I mean, you know,
I do have part of him physically here in Minnie
and him and my dog had this crazy bond.
So I do like to say that I often just feel
like he's still around.
Like even the other week,
I literally had a gardener over and he's like,
there's like this energy about this house or this place.
I honestly do get that a lot.
So I think Chumpy's spirit is quite strong around us.
I feel weird even saying things like that out loud
because I'm not one of those people.
Like I just never was quite woo woo
or in touch with like energies and things.
And now I think I can't really shy away from it.
It's kind of in front of my face and I feel it.
Because the thing is in a way, when someone dies,
it doesn't mean that relationship ends.
Exactly. I have people being like,
you know, it's nearly been three years.
Like, do you feel like you could move on?
And, you know, where are you at with that?
And I'm like, I mean, I'm sure one day I'll move on.
And like, you know, but it's not like we broke up.
Like I feel like in a way I, you know,
technically I'm still with him.
He just passed away.
And it's so weird that yes,
obviously the relationship kind of ended
in that he's just like not here, but we didn't break up.
And like, I think some people like expect it's like a breakup
and you're just meant to kind of move on.
And it's just not that easy for me emotionally.
There was a moment in your memoir
when you dive under the waves
and there'd be times when you'd scream out underwater
And other times you just talk to him under the water.
And I think that's such an extraordinary sort of image
If I'm away from the house,
I always feel like I can kind of not channel him,
but I feel like he's out in nature.
I always feel like when I'm in the ocean,
I mean, he passed away in the ocean
and it was really his favourite place.
And he wrote songs where there's lyrics saying,
find me at the bottom of the ocean,
things like that when he was like 16.
And I always, when I am swimming in the water,
I always kind of just feel like I can chumps here,
like, or I'll just say, hey, chump.
I think the ocean's his happy place.
And it's definitely my happy place too.
So whether he's actually there or not, or he's listening,
I just like to think that he is out there,
especially when I'm out in nature.
It's like that sometimes if I needed to like
have a big release, I'd grab a pillow and just scream into it.
It was so much more fun to go into the ocean
and just like scream fuck really loudly under the water.
I'd heard someone else did it and released a lot for them.
So it just became my kind of medicine.
And did it help you at the time to do that?
Yeah, I mean, I think any kind of exercising
or like when you just have a big release, it feels good.
I kind of wish I was a singer or dancer
and I could just like, I don't know,
where you can just have a big fat release.
It always feels really good.
But you do that now though.
You do that through your writing,
through your broadcasting, through your podcast.
You're using that, I suppose, as a release
and sharing your experiences and stories.
Definitely, yeah.
So almost a year after Chump Pass,
I didn't need to go and scream fuck under the water
too many more times after that
because I would just get on air
and have a big fat chat with Chloe.
And we'd just release heaps over an hour
and she was going through things
and I was going through things or we both still are.
And we just kind of sit down and have a yarn,
like an unplanned chat and just see what comes up.
And it was super therapeutic for both of us
and just so well received by people.
So I think just a bit of real talk can just be so healing.
Huge unreal talk and just saying it as it is.
And that's what makes you very special
that you talk about your experiences
in such an extraordinary, raw and very real way.
Because I don't think we do grief very well
in the sense of we don't talk about it enough, do we?
And I just hate that people don't often talk
about people passing away
because the only certain thing about life is obviously death.
Everyone has to die and Chump wasn't meant to die that young.
No one's really meant to die too young.
But lots of people don't talk about people
once they've passed or celebrate their life.
Or like I create traditions where every year
on his birthday or the anniversary of him passing,
we do certain things and also just talking about him.
I wanna normalise talking about grief and people passing away
and it's not easy, but it's important.
Like I don't just want his spirit to die with him.
I wanna keep his name alive.
So let's talk about, if you don't mind,
what happened and in terms of
how many came to be in the world.
So yes, we were together for about eight years
and then he went off one day spearfishing
and he had a shallow water blackout.
And so he actually essentially passed out under the water
and he had a weight belt on.
So he sunk to the bottom of the ocean
and it was found about half an hour later, he'd passed away.
Australian Winter Olympian Alex Chumpee Pullen
has drowned in a free diving accident on the Gold Coast.
Paramedics were called to report a man aged in his early 30s
was unconscious in the water of Palm Beach.
And I guess my whole world got flipped on its head
since that second.
Luckily I had an amazing village of people around me
and everyone kind of knew we were already trying for a baby.
So we got some knowledge that we were able to retrieve
if we wanted to Chumpee's sperm.
So we got in touch really quickly with a lawyer
because it's time sensitive, this procedure.
We only had 36 hours.
So the lawyer and an IVF doctor worked together
to get all the wheels into motion
and get signed off what needed to be signed off
for the IVF doctor to go in and actually perform,
well, like actually retrieve and harvest
a little bit of Chumpee's sperm.
So obviously in the state that we were all in,
this was just kind of crazy,
but I wasn't physically doing anything.
I had like friends and my mom making a few phone calls
and Chumpee's parents signing a few bits of paper.
And this was all just kind of happening
as we were all just also going,
what the hell just happened?
Like, where is Chumpee?
And as if he's not about to walk through that door,
like he can't really be gone.
Like, you know, it was a crazy 36 hours
or it was a crazy year, you know,
the dust is kind of only just settling.
And I'm like, wow, he's really not here.
So about six months after Chumpee passed away,
I decided, all right,
let me continue our dreams of having a family.
That's what we were doing.
That's what we were trying to do.
He's not here, but maybe I can bring a piece of him back
and maybe I can kind of continue to live the life
that we dreamed of without him.
Wasn't there a particular sign for you
that when you're in your camper van driving
and then you turned off the engine,
you were with your friend,
and then a song that he'd sung started to be played
through your camper van?
So I had been on a road trip down to see my dad,
who was also dying from cancer.
And on my way back up,
I had stopped at my friend's house in Newcastle
and we were in her house in the morning.
And we hear one of his songs called Four Babies,
which is my favourite song of his playing.
And I'm thinking, oh, that's so cute.
My friend Ash, who I'm staying at,
she's playing his music in the kitchen.
That's, what a legend, that's so beautiful.
I wonder if she always does this
or it's just cause I'm here kind of thing.
I'm like, oh Ash, you're playing his music.
She's like, what?
We find out that the music is coming from outside.
So we start walking out the front door
and my van that's been sitting there overnight,
like hadn't been touched for over 12 hours,
the music from inside is just blasting.
But I've gone and found the keys and they're in my hand.
The van is completely turned off.
And me and Ash are just looking at each other,
like we've both turned pale.
And we're like, how is his songs coming out of that car?
And this thing was a piece of shit.
Even when the car was on the radio
in this old van barely worked.
So I don't know how he did that,
but he's turned on the music and I just,
it was while I was on my way back up the coast
to go to my first IVF appointment
and actually like, you know,
investigate the possibilities of,
is this maybe even gonna work?
So hop in the car, my weird car
that's been playing music overnight,
hop in my car and start driving up the coast.
I had been thinking, you know,
what would I call this baby if I fall pregnant?
Like I just, the thought of actually falling pregnant
would be a dream come true,
but I thought probably not gonna happen.
Like, you know, it'd be a miracle
if this worked kind of thing.
And I'd always had the girl's name in my head, Minnie.
I wanted her, if it was a girl,
to be called Minnie Chumpy Pullen.
The middle name would be Chumpy.
I changed that at the last second to Alex.
But on the way up the coast,
I saw the turn off for Minnie Waters.
I felt like that was also a sign too,
because at the exact time I'd been thinking of Minnie
as the baby girl's name,
and then Minnie Waters as the turn off,
I'm like, wow, so maybe that was a bit of a sign.
And then the very next day I had my first IVF appointment
with Dr. Andrew Davidson,
who was the guy that went and harvested Chump's sperm
in the first place.
And he said to me, like, it's a pretty low chance
that, you know, with his sperm,
that we're actually gonna be able to create embryos,
and then you're gonna be able to fall pregnant.
We'll just have to see how the sperm goes.
So yeah, it was always gonna be a big risk.
But, you know, miracles happen.
And on the second round,
I actually fell pregnant with his little girl.
And what was that moment like
when you heard that news that you were pregnant?
Well, I had done a round previously,
my first round of IVF,
that didn't turn out to be a viable pregnancy.
And I knew that round wasn't,
like, I just didn't feel that at all.
And then as soon as this second embryo went in,
So I would have been really surprised if I wasn't pregnant.
I didn't pee on any sticks for the two weeks,
like, which I think a lot of people going through IVF,
they pee on sticks like every day.
I'm like, nah, I'm just gonna wait till the blood test.
I just feel like I am.
And yeah, sure enough I was.
And so I was just squealing,
I was calling Chump's parents,
I was like cuddling the shit out of my dog,
going, we're gonna have a baby.
And yeah, I mean, having all those really amazing moments
where I tell everyone I'm pregnant
with Chump's baby without him,
which is crazy and something obvious
I never thought would be,
but everyone was just so excited, it was really cool.
So yeah, then I just started growing little bubby.
And you were also quite anxious understandably
as the pregnancy progressed about what might happen,
but you managed to hide that, didn't you,
from people around you?
I think with IVF pregnancies,
they always monitor you extra hard.
So, there was extra scans and all of that,
but they kept realising that this baby was extra small.
Like I think she was on the seventh percentile or something.
And I had friends that were pregnant at the same time.
They're like, oh, my kid's on the 99th percentile.
And we all can't help but compare,
even though I was like, fuck,
that's gonna suck to push that thing out, 99th percentile.
Yeah, that's a big head.
I was worried about Minnie being so small
They were like, oh, okay,
well, we're gonna have to get you in next week
and next week and next week and next week.
And I'm the opposite of a hyper-conject.
And, you know, but I think because these days
we have so much information about our pregnancies
and like, they can tell us so much.
I'm sure in a lot of circumstances,
it's good because they can intervene where they need to,
or, you know, sometimes knowledge is necessary
and knowledge is power.
But I think sometimes, especially for first time moms
or, you know, when you're pregnant,
like you hear little things about your baby
and it just fully freaks you out.
So I kind of just kept that to myself.
And so I'd go along to these scans
with my mom or my brother
and I would be absolutely fretting,
which is so unlike me.
But I just, I only told my mom and my brother.
I didn't even tell anyone else.
I think your mom must look at you though
and think what a extraordinary daughter I have
and someone who is just a warrior and you're so brave.
I mean, I feel like I just did the right thing.
Now that I've got Minnie,
I couldn't even imagine a world
where I didn't go through with that and have her.
So I don't even see it as being brave.
I just see it as like the only option.
And I literally, I think I have
such a great support network as well.
And I didn't know that I was going to have
all these amazing people around us
when I brought her into the world,
because obviously, you know, you go into it being like,
I was like, I'm a single mom.
I'm gonna do this alone.
It's gonna be absolutely fine.
And people have just stepped up and really helped me out.
So I'm just super lucky.
So it's not just all me being brave.
It's me having really good help around as well.
But I think don't ever downplay who you are and what you are
because where does that come from, do you think?
My mom was a single, well,
so my parents divorced when I was like one
and my mom kind of ran off with me
and my brother and brought us up alone.
She didn't have much money
and she's always just been like this force
and just gets on with things.
She doesn't fluff about.
She doesn't want to muck around having small talk.
She's a very realistic person.
She just kind of gets the job done.
And although I'm super different to her,
I've always seen her as like this incredibly strong,
brave, independent, like on her own path kind of woman.
And I think I have a bit of that in me
in that I'm just like, oh, like stop sweating
the small stuff, like let's just, you know,
get on with it kind of thing.
But also my dad is super carefree
and he's like kind of an old hippie and just loose.
And, you know, he's completely rogue
in the opposite of my mom.
Like I don't even know how they were ever together.
So I honestly think I'm like the perfect balance
And your beautiful dad, as you say,
who was such a free spirit
and he'd always have a possum in his pocket
or a snake in his pocket or doing whatever.
He passed away so close to Chum passing away, didn't he?
We found out literally a month after Chum passed away
that dad had terminal brain cancer.
And it's funny when he came up to the funeral,
I think I was driving with him one day from my house
to my brother's house.
He was driving like 10 kilometres on the highway
and he was just acting super funny.
But of course we all were
because it was such a nuts time in our life.
And so I wasn't like, usually I'd be like,
dad, what's going on with you?
But I was obviously giving him a lot of leeway
because he loved Chum, adored him like his own son.
Him and Chum had this really cool connection.
They were both really musical and loved dancing
and they got weird to get a chump
and dad had this sick relationship that was awesome.
So cool to watch.
And I think my dad was so rattled that Chum had passed away
and just couldn't believe it.
So I just thought dad was going really funny in the brain
and grieving really hard.
Turns out a month later we find out
that he had stage four glioblastoma of the brain
and they kind of gave him a year to live,
but he actually ended up living a year and a half,
nearly two years.
I mean, honestly, me and my brother
just could not believe it.
We went down immediately to go hang out
with dad as much as possible.
And then I fell pregnant and I really,
like my whole thing was, I really hope this works
so that dad can stick around to meet my baby.
Alex Chumpee Pullen's widow, Elodie,
has given birth to their first child,
a little girl following his death last year.
Thank goodness they got lots of cuddles in.
He passed away about two months after she was born.
I mean, he was asleep most of the time
for the last few months of his life,
but so was Minnie because she was a newborn
so they just got to sleep.
I'd always just, I came down to spend a few months
with Chum and I'd just put Minnie on his chest
or like just near his arm and they'd just pass out
together there for the day and it was so cute.
Well, I remember seeing some beautiful pictures
that you took of your dad holding Minnie
and then with your doggy curled up on the end of the bed.
And it was such a touching moment.
And also what I thought was so beautiful
about those images was that it makes it real for people
in terms of when you are losing someone that you love,
what is it that we do or how can we still remain connected
or have rituals with this person
as opposed to kind of hiding it away.
Yeah, it was so cute.
It was such a special time having him get to meet Minnie
and also my dog, Rummy, she 100%.
It was like she could smell the cancer
or smell that something bad was happening
and she was all over dad like a rash, which was really cute.
And I'm just so grateful that we had those times.
I would have conversations with dad where I'd be like,
well, obviously it was super realistic.
He had cancer and he knew he was gonna die.
Me and my brother would be like, okay, dad,
when you cross over, when you're not here anymore,
when you're up there with Chum, give us a sign.
Can you send us a particular song?
He was obsessed with the Rolling Stones.
So the first time my brother and I,
about two days later, we went into a cafe
after he passed away and Start Me Up by the Rolling Stones
comes on straight away.
And I'm like, whoa, he got the memo
and he sent us the sign that he said he was gonna send.
And that was like one of his favorite songs by then.
So just things like that.
It's like, it obviously was so different
not knowing Chum was gonna pass
and that just being so sudden and being like, oh my gosh,
like I didn't even, you know, there was no goodbyes.
There was nothing like we're just all up in arms.
And then being able to actually have conversations
with my dad, like knowing that he's gonna die
and properly say goodbye and, you know,
talk about things like send us signs.
It's just the biggest contrast, I guess,
to look at two completely different deaths, you know?
It's hard to get your head around.
And I think to myself, it's not fair.
I know life isn't fair, but for you to have to endure
all of that is not fair.
It's not fair at all.
And usually I'd say, like, I mean, it's just so cruel
when a young person dies so suddenly.
But even my dad, who was so full of life, he was 69,
but you would think that he was a kid.
He was so young at heart, everyday surfing and fishing
and, you know, doing camping trips.
He still went overseas all the time.
He rode on his motorbike.
He had like this team of bikers and they'd like, you know,
they'd go all around Australia.
He was such a go-getter and he would still camp all the time.
And he's honestly just like a little kid.
And then for him to just deteriorate so quickly
in front of our eyes, like it just,
he should have had 30 more years ahead.
Like life is just so unfair.
How do you reconcile that?
Or how do you get through those dark moments yourself?
I like to think Chump and Dad are up there together.
And I mean, yeah, I allow myself to have really low points
and just like sit there and cry and, you know,
let everything out.
But I think what always does help is
kind of really believing that those two
are up there together.
Having a beer, hanging out, doing karaoke, you know,
those two being weird together up there.
I hope that they're together.
I think that all the time.
That gets me through.
And also, you know, my brother and my mom and my friends
and Minnie, like, we're so lucky the community we've got.
And me and my brother and my mom are so tight.
We're kind of, we always say,
we've got to stay strong for each other, you know.
Got to take life by the horns and take it,
like not take anything for granted
and just get out there and live.
And I know that's what my dad would say.
He wouldn't want us to waste a second.
And Chump as well, obviously.
And your mom, there's a beautiful letter
that she wrote to you.
And have you still got that stuck up?
Is it inside your pantry about?
She would, if she could,
she would take it all in a moment for you, that pain.
Mom is so beautiful.
She loved him so much.
And she just knows how much he's just like larger than life.
I think for mom to be my mom and almost his mom as well.
Like she was so close with him to, you know,
be with us the day before and hang out with us.
And then the next day to see him just kind of be, you know,
I think I can't even comprehend
how mom must have been feeling.
Seeing me sitting there just, you know,
in so much shock having just found out the worst news ever.
Mom being the first person on the scene with me
and seeing Chump like that.
I literally sometimes feel for her more than I feel for me.
And I thank her for really, you know,
saying goodbye and holding him and doing that
because I actually just couldn't at the time.
So I think she would have bring him some peace.
Oh, most definitely.
And also too, you shared in your book
that you were walking your dog
and you felt this terrible pain in your heart.
And you felt that that was very much the moment,
And again, I was never one of those people,
those energy kind of persons that felt things like that.
So the fact that that happened,
that I was walking my dog, you know, in this park,
half an hour away from our house,
and I felt this incredibly sharp pain in my chest.
And that was the exact like a moment
when I had found out that he passed away
half an hour later, he'd been gone for that long.
That was like the exact moment that I felt that pain.
And I can't put into words how real that was.
It was like my heart knew what happened
without my brain even knowing the facts.
My heart was shattering into a million pieces
without me actually even knowing what had happened yet.
And I just wish I could reach out
and give you a huge hug.
Because again, I still marvel that here you are,
this glorious, beautiful young woman,
still standing, so to speak,
still being able to talk, to get out of bed,
and to share in the way that you do.
How is it that you manage that?
I mean, you've said that you've got people around you,
this incredible village,
but there'd be many people listening
who would be going through things thinking,
I actually can't put one foot in front of the other.
I cannot see your way through this.
Is there some advice or something that you could say
that might help or helped you?
Literally, my motto from day one
was what you just said, one foot in front of the other,
and it can just be baby steps.
Like, and I hate saying this to people
because I hated hearing it at the start
because I didn't believe it,
but it really does get easier.
And time does heal.
I hated hearing that
because I thought time's staying still.
Like, time is not passing.
I'm stuck, I'm stuck, stuck, stuck.
But time really does heal,
and you just, tiny, tiny baby steps in front of the other.
Like, you just, you do keep swimming,
and unfortunately, time does go on, and it feels weird.
But as time goes on,
you get further and further away from that person.
We're crazy as humans.
What we can go through, what we can deal with,
it does get easier.
You do just have to put one foot in front of the other,
and it's never gonna be gone.
I'll never not be grieving,
and I'll never not have moments
where I feel completely broken and helpless,
and how am I gonna survive?
But the waves, they get further and further apart,
and they get less big.
So at the start, it's like big barrels smashing you,
and like, over time, just the waves get further
and further apart, and they get smaller,
and it becomes a little bit more manageable.
And I think, I've heard this before,
we kind of grow around our griefs.
I don't think the burden of what's happened gets smaller.
It's just that our life becomes bigger around it,
and we learn how to manage it better.
That's a really powerful image to think about.
And I also think what's such an important point
that you raise is that grief never ends.
There's not an end point to it.
I don't think it ever, ever goes away.
It's like if people are born with mental health,
or when you're born with a clinical depression
where there's a chemical imbalance,
I think you manage it.
But I don't think those things ever go away.
Have you ever thought, I don't want to be here anymore?
If my beautiful partner in life is not here,
I don't want to be here?
I often said, if I didn't have our dog,
who was just obsessed with Chumpy,
and I felt like I had to, like, I honestly, it's so crazy,
because if you're not a dog person,
you don't get this at all.
She got me through everything at the start.
I could not not get out of bed each day.
I needed to go and be with my dog and hang with her
and take her to the beach.
And I wanted to make her happy.
I'm telling you, she was so sad.
If she could sit there and cry all day,
she would have, she was grieving as hard as me.
I never was suicidal at all,
but I could see if I didn't have my dog,
because I really felt like she was what I was living for.
I maybe would have thought about
maybe not wanting to be here,
but I know I wouldn't have, like, you know,
actually thought, how could I do it?
Or that's kind of not innately me,
but I do think I probably would have just moved overseas
and just gotten out, like, just kind of left life behind
and just tried to pretend that that, you know,
just kind of running away from the problem.
There's a quote that you have,
and I think this is just so exquisite.
If I couldn't live with Chumpy, I'd live for him.
Yeah, I feel like that's exactly what I'm doing.
I'm, like, living out our dreams.
You know, me, our family, and running our house.
And I kind of feel like I'm doing what he was meant to do.
So he was about to finish snowboarding,
he was about to retire, and he was doing keynote talking,
but he also, like, literally bought all podcast stuff
because he was going to turn his keynotes into, like,
a podcast and interviewing his athlete mates
and stuff like that as well.
And he was, like, really good at public speaking.
I'm literally so terrible at it,
but this was definitely his arena.
Like, he was always spreading wisdom and his story
and how he got to be this athlete and his upbringing.
And he was very moving to listen to,
and he was, like, a performer with his music.
So not that I'm doing any of that,
like, not that I feel like I'm a performer at all,
but just even getting on a microphone and having a chat
is something I never ever would have wanted to do
or thought I would ever do.
And I definitely feel like that's his area.
And I feel like he would be really proud.
Sounds weird to say that, but I just,
I think he'd just be like,
like, I remember when we got asked to be an emcee
of some of our best friend's wedding,
and they asked both Chump and I to do it.
And he was like, sorry, you just can't do it
because, you know, you'll just be a ball of stress
up until then, and I know you just physically
won't be able to manage it.
He's like, I'll take one for the team
and I'll just do it for us.
I'm like, amazing.
So he would just be like, beyond like mind boggled
that this is what I'm doing down here, like for sure.
But also he probably made this happen.
I'm sure he's guiding this and, you know,
has given me the strength and the power
to actually sit in front of these microphones
and do this podcast with Chloe and interviews like this.
So for you, what is next?
Where do you see yourself, I suppose, happiest?
You know, I don't have like grand, grand plans.
Like the life Chump and I had was and is pretty good.
We live by the beach, which is our favorite place.
I have Minnie, I have our dog, I have our house.
Like, I don't know if it sounds so bad to say,
I don't have massive goals.
Obviously we've got the podcast
and I just want us to do really well and spread, you know,
great messages and build this beautiful community
I just want that to evolve naturally.
I just hope there's not too much more bad news.
I just want to, you know, harness life and be happy
and just appreciate the little things.
I can't think of a better example of someone
who is doing that, given what you have endured
and lived through what you are now doing with your life.
It is inspirational.
Oh, thank you so much, Jess.
It's been so cool chatting.
But it is, you are so inspiring
and I think the word inspiring gets thrown around a lot,
but you are inspiring.
Yes, wow, that's crazy to hear.
I never would have believed that, but thank you so much.
And just very finally, with your beautiful daughter, Minnie,
what is it that you hope for her?
I hope that she has a sense of creativity
in that musical kind of gene of her dad.
I hope that she just goes up just being fun,
loving and happy.
And I hope she doesn't have too much shit thrown her way.
I hope that she can connect with her dad
and learn from him, you know.
I hope he comes through her
or I hope that she feels like she belongs.
And I hope that I can just be the best role model
for her and the best mom and bring her up to just be,
you know, I want to give her every opportunity possible.
And I guess when I said before I don't have goals,
my goal is to just make her happy
and just be the best mom possible.
That's probably my best goal I could think of.
Well, you're doing that already.
Yay, well, we'll continue that.
Just wait till she's a teenager.
Oh my gosh, yes, I'm worried about that.
I've heard girls are mayhem when they turn into teenagers.
Oh, you can just do like what your dad used to do to you
Remember, he'd go, yep, off you go.
You hide here in the pub and have a good time.
You really did read every word of that book.
Oh, yes, yeah, I loved it.
I just, it was so beautiful.
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Jess.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
You're an absolute star.
So I can't believe we even have the opportunity to chat.
So I really appreciate that.
Well, you are the inspiration
because what you have done, what you've lived through,
what you inspire people with, it's just beautiful.
So thank you for being you.
That's very kind.
Thank you so much, Jess.
I hope I get to see you in real life one day.
Hopefully one day we get to run into each other.
I'd love that too.
Elodie is something else.
Isn't she just the most extraordinary?
I know I use that word a lot in the interview,
but that describes her to a T.
And you can get so much more of the beautiful Elodie
through her podcast that Listener has launched.
It is called Darling Shine,
and it is created by Elodie and her best friend,
Chloe Fisher, and they share their experiences
of womanhood, grief, fertility, friendship,
and everything in between.
Elodie says at Darling Shine,
we use our pain as power to open conversations
and help those listening to feel heard and seen.
And for more big conversations like this,
follow the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show podcast.
It means you will never miss an episode.
And if there's someone in your life
that you think might enjoy this chat,
share it with them or leave us a review.
We love to hear from you.
And if you love this episode with Elodie,
you might enjoy my chat with Laura Byrne and Brittany Hockley.
Having that understanding just allowed me
to be more purposeful in how my relationships unfolded,
as opposed to just being carried along
on this what sometimes felt like volatile
and like emotional craziness,
where like there would be huge, amazing highs
and then crazy lows.
And I always felt like I was a passenger in my relationship
and now I'm in the driving seat,
and that's really empowering.
The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me, Jess Rowe,
executive producer, Nick McClure,
audio producer, Nicky Sitch,
supervising producer, Sam Kavanagh.
Until next time, remember to live big.
Life is just too crazy and glorious
to waste time on the stuff that doesn't matter.