I think you have to have a big heart in life, you know, like, it comes and goes so fast
and it's gone pretty quick and you've got to enjoy yourself and you've got to feel good
about what you do in life and don't get me wrong, I've made lots of mistakes in my life
too, you know, and you've got to learn from those and you've got to sort of pick yourself
back up when something doesn't go your way and get on with it.
Hi, I'm Jess Rowe and this is the Jess Rowe Big Talk Show, a podcast that skips the small
talk and goes big and deep with our most loved personalities.
From love to loss and everything in between, I want to show you a different side of people
who seem to have it all together in these raw and honest conversations about the things
I don't know about you, but in this time of social isolation, I really crave connected
conversations, so I'm going to dig deep to give you a new window into the souls of the
people we all love and admire.
I always cry and have a laugh so you can expect some tears and laughter as we celebrate the
real life flaws and vulnerabilities that make us human.
In this episode, I speak with superstar chef Curtis Stone.
He's a TV host entrepreneur and the owner and chef of the Michelin star restaurant Maud
I want to know how Curtis has built such a successful international career but has still
kept that lovely down-to-earth nature and is still a good Aussie bloke.
Curtis and I caught up via his LA wardrobe because of the good acoustics in there and
while we chatted, he enjoyed a glass of wine.
That's the sort of guy that he is.
Curtis Stone, you are a man after my own heart.
You have a sweet tooth and the first thing you ever made was a caramel slice, is that
My granny, she was a good baker and she used to make fudge.
She was from the north of England and I used to like eating her fudge and occasionally would
ask her if I could make it.
And that's, I guess, how I sort of got interested in cooking.
But my mum was a big woman's weekly cookbook hoarder.
She had thousands of them.
So I would go through her woman's weekly cookbooks and the first recipe that I ever
called my own, I took the topping of a caramel slice from one recipe book and then I took
the base from another because I figured that was how you did your own thing and I called
it my caramel slice and it was bloody good actually.
And what I think is so fascinating about you is you are this superstar chef but you still
maintain this gorgeous sort of earthy surfiness about you, if there's such a word as surfiness.
It's funny, I get told that I'm humble, I have my feet on the ground a lot and I'm not
exactly sure why or where it comes from.
I think I grew up with an older brother and anyone that grows up with an older brother
knows that you get the odd clip behind the ear and you of course have your feet firmly
on the ground and I've been very fortunate in my life.
I found a career that I love and I really genuinely enjoy it and I enjoyed it as much
when I was a 21-year-old apprentice as I do now as someone that owns a business and I
feel very lucky that I get to do what I love every day and I know lots of people will tell
you that anyway but that's the truth for me, it really is.
I get out of bed every morning excited to go and do what I do and I think when that's
the case, it's simple.
It's also what I do is a blue collar job, like let's face it, when you're a cook you
peel potatoes, you carry bags of vegetables from one side to the other, you chop onion,
you do all that stuff and I've spent my whole life doing it and I love it and it would feel
weird if I had my head up in the clouds I think.
Because it is, it's a hard job as you say, it's so physical.
My younger sister trained as a chef and she worked in London as well and the sorts of
stories she has told me about kitchens, I used to think TV was bad in terms of a rough
and tumble environment but kitchens are pretty fiery places to be or they can be pretty
scary places to be.
They really can be, you know I played Aussie Rules as a kid and loved that and I played
pretty competitively.
I never made it obviously to the AFL but otherwise I wouldn't be a cook but I played pretty competitively
and when I started cooking I felt it was very similar, there was a captain, there was a
coach and there the head chef and whatever, restaurant manager and you go out onto the
field and you leave it all there, you give it everything you've got and you either win
And in a kitchen it's kind of similar, you do your prep, you do your training so you
get ready for service which is almost like the whistle being blown and the game starting
and then you either go down or you have a successful service, there's not much in between
and in that you get to be a leader or you get to be a follower or you get to be a forward
who kicks all the goals or you get to be the guy that does all the one percenters and it
really, I always did think about it and I thought who would have known that playing
Aussie Rules would set me up for success in a kitchen but I really do think it did.
I'm not au fait with Aussie Rules in terms of what a one percenter is or this or that
but what would you be?
Are you like the big massive goal kicker or what's your role in the kitchen?
Look I think I probably played similar footy than I behave in the kitchen and I'm probably
naturally a leader but it comes more from supporting others and I was always the loudest
one on the field, I'd always talk more than anyone else but it was sort of to try and
rally the troops and get them engaged and you have to do the same thing.
As the chef of a restaurant you've got to be the captain of the team and you've got
to get them all there, you've got to get them all excited, you've got to get them all pumped
up and when you see someone start going down you run over and you help them so you're sort
of the backstop in many ways so not the guy that kicks all the goals.
Could you be the cheerleader?
I've got my pom-poms at the start of everything.
And your saucepans and all your wonderful new cook with Curtis, your knives and all those
sorts of amazing things that you've got because what I think also I find phenomenal about your
story is you started out as a butcher at a hotel didn't you at the Southern Cross Hotel in Melbourne
so going from a butcher to now this sort of international Michelin star chef, I mean wow
It really has been and I guess it just comes down to really enjoying those simple tasks
and look now I've got four or five different companies and I'm the CEO of all of them and
I'm active you know I work really hard in them but I'm never happier when I go to my pie shop
and I'm like today I'm just making pies and I'm going to leave my phone in my car
and I literally roll pastry and make pies all day long and I think sometimes those really simple
tasks like being a butcher are really quite rewarding. They're simple and they're easy but
there's also a certain amount of skill that you need to do them and the beautiful thing
about the hospitality industry is you really do get to see the world and you really do get to
meet all sorts of people from different walks of life and broaden your horizons in a pretty cool
way. And you've done that, you've cooked for Oprah, for Ellen DeGeneres, you've been an apprentice
for Donald Trump.
There's got to be highs and lows obviously.
Oh come on tell me more Curtis. What was that like?
Well you know what it was a funny time of my life because if you remember 08 in the US it was pretty
dreadful. The economy was pretty stuck and I went from having a TV show and a few things sort of
going my way and then my TV show got cancelled. We did 140 episodes of the one show and I thought
oh no big problem but then it happened right at 2008 when nothing else got sent your way and all
of a sudden I was unemployed and I was kind of thinking to myself god what do I do? I've been
asked a year prior to do the apprentice and back when I had a job I said no way you know I don't
want to do that silly show but then when they asked me the following year and I was unemployed
I thought you know what maybe I better do it. So I went and did it with lots of reservations
because you know the people on it were pretty crazy but I got there and the people were very
crazy. I mean I had Cyndi Lauper and Brent Michaels and Holly Robertson-Pete and Daryl
Strawberry and you know the governor Bagojovich who ended up down the jail all these crazy
characters around me Sharon Osborne but the thing that was so interesting was the nature of the
show is you play a game and you don't get to play many games until you have kids and I didn't have
kids at the time so you know you got given these tasks and I just really enjoyed it. It was a fun
show to be a part of you know Trump was this was back before he had any political aspirations
so you know you sort of took him back then on face value which was he played a bit of a clown and
it was just a bit of a show and so you didn't really read too much into it I don't think but
it was it was certainly a fun experience. And what else did you learn from that? I mean as you say
sometimes we have to make choices about our work our lives when there's not many other opportunities
coming your way when you left that did you then think oh I've learned this or this is something
I'm going to take away or was it just simply fun? No it was just fun I don't think I learned anything
who knows maybe I'll learn a thing or two about reality tv because it's pretty funny
living the experience and then seeing how they cut it you're like oh wow that's not how it really
happened but okay fair enough so yeah it was it was an interesting experience and it was a fun
one in the last one I mean I was only there for two or three weeks I think. Yeah but what it's
still a pretty impressive thing I reckon to have on your cv now another real standard on your cv
is that you worked for Marco Pierre White I mean he's such a power force isn't he he's this sort
of infamous sort of chef but you were with him what for eight years working in London?
I was yeah I got to London I think I was probably 22 years old and I started working for Marco
the same week that I arrived I started as a commie the lowest ranked chef in the brigade and
did everything from sweep up the floor to pick the herbs or the salad leaves that
other people would put on the plates and a year after you sort of work your way up through that
brigade a little bit and I went to different restaurants that he owned and I spent some time
in a few different great restaurants and it was an incredible experience you know a very intense
environment and it was sink or swim for sure and yeah I really really loved it. Well you didn't
sink at all I mean you really swum to the top and obviously you strike me as someone that thrives in
those high pressure high risk environments. Yeah I do I've always enjoyed it it's funny my wife
and I joke about this well it's not really a joke but I if I don't run for my aeroplane if
I'm traveling somewhere it's there's something very abnormal I'm always living right on that
edge and I think I think that's a kitchen there's something in the kitchen that you you love being
on the edge and yeah is it going to go okay or not is a is something that I sort of tend to do
well with and Marco's kitchens were the amplified version of that if someone did something wrong he
could throw them out or send them home or fire them and it was sort of perfection or nothing that
was kind of the motto and you just had to strive for it as much as you could and sometimes you were
the insect and sometimes you were the windshields and sort of you did you just you just sort of
rolled with the punches and I've always had pretty thick skin and I guess what might offend somebody
else doesn't offend somebody I was never one of those ones that got their feelings to her if I
if I messed something up I usually knew that I'd done it not know what would be coming and
and that would be okay yes and I think that is the key though to have have a thick skin because
I'm someone I I don't know if I'd say I have a thin skin but I am highly sensitive so if someone
was yelling at me or swearing at me or whatever I would be in the floor in floods of tears going
that's it it's all over I'm not suited for a kitchen at all well you know what there's different
types of kitchens and that's the beautiful thing and I do feel like there's there's a kitchen for
everybody there's some kitchens that are very calm and you play classical music and you're not under
an intense time pressure and there's others that are just bananas and crazy I kind of feel like
there's room for all of it in life and you've got to choose what you want I know that we're
we're getting a little I don't know homogenized in the way that we approach things I think and
you're like well there's all these rules and you can only do one thing if I was a chef today Marco
wouldn't have been able to run his kitchens the way he did and that would be a real bummer I think
there'd be something really lost there you know and I get it you can't be nasty to people and
whatever but at the same time I've always sort of looked at it like if you if you want to train for
the Olympics and you want to try and get yourself a gold medal well your coach probably isn't going
to say please and thank you every single time he asks you to do a sit-up or a push-up they're
going to push you and try and get the absolute most out of you because that's what you've asked
them to do so I don't know I sort of think there's a bit more room in the world for different things
I think that's a really fascinating take on it because and but it's about working out how
different people thrive because if someone was to say please and thank you to me and do all of that
I would win the gold medal. Right different horses for different horses that's the truth.
Exactly now I want to pick up on something you said earlier about how you just love being in the
kitchen at the moment you know you said you're loving making the pies because you've had to
really sort of change your business model with COVID that sort of struck all of us because
your amazing Michelin star restaurant Mord has now become the pie room by Gwen.
It has and look we'll go back to Mord at some point but we're still in the middle of this thing
aren't we you know every time you think you're on your way out of it you get sucked back into
the eye of the storm and it's a it's a bizarre time you know and I think the only way through
it is to stay positive and to keep trying new things and we did just that we had an empty
restaurant that we literally weren't allowed to open but I had a bunch of chefs that I didn't
want to tell them I wasn't going to pay them I wanted to try and keep the team strong and
together as best I could so we said we had one incredible baker Amy her name is she's just got
such a wonderful way with uh with doughs breads and pastries and pie crusts and and we were
actually working on something else and she baked a pie for everyone I was like holy crap I mean we
should just do a pie shop and she said I'll do it and then someone else said I'll do it I was like
let's just do it so we sort of felt a little bit like the world needed a hug at that moment and
the pies a pretty nice way to give someone that feeling whether it's a big beautiful
oxtail beef pie or whether it's uh apple and cinnamon pie you know so we sort of we started
making sweet and savory pies and it's been a big hit people have really liked it we still sell out
every single day it's crazy I love that that you sell out every single day you know something that
is so heartbreaking having to sort of change your business has then you know blossomed into
something that's sort of sweet and special it really is and people come in you know I never
even really thought about it to be honest but of course being an Aussie you sort of just start
leaning in that direction so you do more and more savory pies and sausage rolls have been such a big
hit you know and all these people from Beverly Hills come in and they're like what is this thing
you know and you stand there and explain to them what a sausage roll is and it makes me chuckle
because it's like you know it's just so my dad thinks it's so funny he's an accountant we've
always had this back and forth my dad he was uh you know when I first told him I wanted to be a
cook because I got the marks to go and study law and he was just devastated that I wanted to be a
cook and you know we sort of we went back and forth then of course my career turned out okay
so he's he's happy these days but now he thinks it's just so so funny that he's his son who
traveled the world and you know sought out the best chefs to go and get his butt kicked in
their restaurants and now I make a living out of selling sausage rolls he thinks that's pretty
hysterical but there's nothing like a good sausage roll and a party pie I love a party pie I agree
you know what when you try and explain a party pie to someone that's even funnier because there's
little things that we say in Australia that when you try and tell someone else well why
is it a party pie what does that mean I'm like well normally you serve it at a party they're
little and you can it's a cocktail food they're like but you call it a party like the pie creates
the party my wife's favorite one is the nature strip I asked her one day why why this road didn't
have a nature strip and she said what on earth is a nature strip and I said what do you mean the
nature strip outside the house a little strip of grass and she's like you call that a nature
strip it's a nature strip she said it's like something you should get at the tanning at the
waxing salon isn't that a landing strip talking about you mentioned there your beautiful wife
Lindsay and I read somewhere that a friend sort of set you up and at the time you weren't really
you were having a great time you were sort of traveling the world doing what young fellas do
but then you met Lindsay and things sort of went from there it's true we got set up by a friend who
was uh she lived in New York and Lindsay and I were both in LA and she tried to convince us both
and I don't think either of us were too excited about going on a blind date but I soon saw a
photo of her and I was like I'll take that blind date but yeah we keep we hit it off that night
we really liked hanging out and yeah we sort of we obviously set up another date and one thing
led to the next and before you know it we've got a couple of kids and here I am in LA oh and you've
got your two beautiful boys what sort of dad are you how would you describe your parenting style
look it's funny I'm I had a very strict mom she didn't take any nonsense my loza she was
an intense mom but she was fair you know she wasn't she was also really fun and I can remember
a lot of incredible times with her and I hope I'm like that for my kids I don't think of myself as
being strict but then when I do look at some of the other parenting that's around I probably am
on the stricter side because I don't you know I think a little bit of discipline is all right
I love being with kids we're always messing around together and having fun and I think it's
all right to break the rules once in a while so yeah we uh we enjoy each other's company that's
for sure well I think rules are made to be broken but when you talk about discipline
in what way would you say you're strict I try not to have too much uh technology in our lives and
kids don't have computers or even iPads and certainly not phones and we don't have video
games very much in the house and um yeah I think some of their mates just have free slather you
know do whatever you want to do and my kids probably think I'm a bit mean because I don't
let them have all the same toys their mates have but yeah so technology is a big one for me so I
try and keep away from that as much as I can because I kind of feel like it'll happen for
them anyway and they'll eventually be using all that stuff and whatever so while they're young
and can be outside and exercising and using their brains in sort of a pretty simple way not so much
analyzing a computer I guess when I've got a rule I sort of stick to it that's sort of no nonsense
and but yeah it's it's uh it's funny we've all just got different things haven't we you know like
I let my kids tackle each other when we play footy uh and I don't think many parents would
you know especially over here when I take them to the park and keep the footy with them they uh
people stand there staring at us like oh my god look at these three a little bit of physical
activities all right yeah of course it is and also what about with your kids because I've got
two daughters I'm a crap housewife I'm not a great cook and even though I try my best and I get so
tired of like cooking and then they go I don't like it I don't want to eat it I don't want it
so do your kids do that with your cooking you know it's funny my first boy Hudson he was just
a gem you know he eats absolutely everything and I've gardened with him a lot as a kid and
you know we we would cook together and I really did think that I had it all figured out you know
you just got to introduce food to your kids at a young age and show them where their food comes
from and get them involved in the cooking process and um Bob's your uncle they'll eat whatever you
put in and Hudson literally would eat anything um and then along comes my second and I tell you
what that boy he is a very different child you know he just Amazon will literally sit down
he'll push the plate away from him and he'll say not eating it and he hasn't even looked to see
what's on it I'm like mate it used to drive me insane and now I'm like fine don't eat it you're
not getting anything else you know and sometimes you will and sometimes you won't and you're like
I just sort of figure you got to try and stick to your guns a little bit not cave and give him a
bowl of ice cream after can't reward him for not eating his dinner so yeah it's not easy though.
I do love that image though of of your youngest pushing away a plate that has been prepared by
a Michelin star chef. Yep with not eating it attached it's uh that's the kicker.
See that offers solace for parents everywhere. What I'd like to talk about now is the team that
you have around you in your kitchen where you work and you're involved with an organization called
Chrysalis. Yes. And tell me about what that actually is. Look it's an incredible organization
that basically give people a hand up they don't give them a hand out they give them a hand up and
they deal with a lot of different groups of people but probably the biggest one is people
that have been in jail and if you look at the numbers of people that go in and out of prison
it's a tremendous amount of human beings you know and I think what generally happens to people that
have been incarcerated is they get out of jail they've probably got their head right while they're
in jail and they probably come out with good intentions and quickly they realize they can't
get a job you got nowhere to sleep they don't really have a bunch of like good positive
influences in their phone if they if they even have one and they have no money and so what do
they do they pretty much go back in many cases to doing what they were doing that got them in
jail in the first place so what Chrysalis try and do is try and get people back into the workforce
because their their motto is a job creates the stability that they need for a healthy lifestyle.
I went to a fundraiser and I sort of heard their story and I was like oh it's interesting it's
we we have roles that you know no one thinks are too sexy in the restaurant business whether
it's washing dishes or peeling onions there's a lot of things that we have to do all day long
and I thought you know we could give someone a chance and and give them a second a second go
so I did I hired a guy he's still with me he's been with me for nearly 10 years
and we've probably had maybe 30 or so of those Chrysalis clients through our kitchens
at different times and they're gems they're nearly always gems they're good human beings who
have you know either had a really rough start in life or maybe they made some bad decisions
but whatever it is the people that we've met and and uh being able to sort of employ and help back
on their own and you know I'll give you a little example there's there's a guy named Byron who
works with us and when he first came to us he was he had a couple of kids two different different
women he didn't have anything to do with those kids he didn't have had a job for a long period
of time he'd been in and out of homelessness he'd been in and out of jail and he came and we sort
of made him a part of the team and he he's been with us for maybe six years now he's back in the
lives of both his kids he's got a steady girlfriend he's a real positive influence on those kids lives
and when you stop and listen to Byron's story and how he was brought up he didn't have any of those
positive influences and then it's a cycle that just continues to repeat itself and in an economy
like America where the distribution of income and wealth is vast it's it's unfortunately a cycle
you don't have to drive very far to drive past the the tent encampments of homeless people and
to see poverty as strong as it is here it's really really sad this is sort of that one little way we
could sort of give back a little bit and it's pretty cool you know you've got a guy who
might have done 15 years in prison standing next to a guy that's done nothing but work in
michelin-starred restaurants and you know has the best college education and and somehow watching
that team all come together and and work somehow it's it's pretty amazing you've got a big heart
God I guess I do it's um I I can be a bit of a sucker for a sob story but I think you have to
have a big heart in life you know like it comes and goes so fast and it's it's gone pretty quick
and you've got to enjoy yourself and you've got to feel good about what you do in life and
and don't get me wrong I've made lots of mistakes in my life too you know and you've got to learn
from those and you've got to sort of pick yourself back up when something doesn't go your way and
get on with it and so I don't know I feel very fortunate and and sometimes when you get that
chance to to give something back I think it's important when you talk about mistakes we all
make them what are some that I suppose stand out for you oh goodness there's there's so many
questions that you have around the way you do things right I work a crazy amount and sometimes
I wonder whether I've got the balance right you know because no one's more important to me than
my wife but I probably see more of the people I work with and I probably see more of a bunch
of other people and you wish that you are at home more same thing as being a parent well I probably
overcompensate for it a bit because I'm like all those nights in a restaurant they're nights that
you're not sitting around the dinner table so you sort of I struggle with that a little bit is it
being selfish are you giving a lot so set a good example is it about you is it about them
I think there's uh goodness we could sit here all night and talk about my mistakes is
but that's what makes us human and I think our mistakes are what make us the special people that
we are you're right you're right it's it's very true you know I think getting that learning that
balance and sailing through life with your eyes open that's the important part
one mistake that that you did make and again as a crap housewife I felt better about myself the
smoke alarms often go off when I cook at home is it right to say that you almost burnt a kitchen
down Curtis well yeah I did I was at Bluebird in London which was a beautiful restaurant wow it's
triple rated heritage building it was actually where they built the Bluebird the fastest car
in the world so it was an old garage that had been turned into a beautiful restaurant
and I inherited it I became the the chef there for a moment and I didn't get fired because I
burned it down I'll add there was a wood fire oven and I thought I'd try and get it as hot as
I could and see what I could do in it sure enough there wasn't an appropriate fire void put in above
it so it ignited a fire in the roof which I couldn't see I could see the smoke but I couldn't
figure out where it was coming from and by the time we called the fire brigade it was it was
well and truly ablaze so yeah they came and we had to call a full-scale evacuation there's
hundreds of people in the building because we're open it was dinner service this is like my third
day on the job and it's quite funny when you try and evacuate a restaurant full of people
they think it's a joke they all just sit there and look at you you're like no I mean it go get
out everyone's but yeah I was working for Terrence Conrad at the time I'll never forget it I was so
scared to call him and tell him what had happened but I rang him and I explained it and I was
probably you know half wiping tears from my face as I explained it because they it was pretty
intense what happened to the kitchen and the first thing he said is everybody okay unless they are
and he said then you've done your job but he put the phone down on me and I can remember
thinking my god it's uh there's hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage to the kitchen
and we're gonna have to close for a period of time to get it all cleaned up and put back together and
all he cared about is was everyone all right and uh that's a pretty cool lesson to learn.
Isn't it? Just finally I would love to know what is your dream meal if you could eat anything
what would it be? I'm one of those people that kind of likes the formality still you know I know
everybody wants restaurants that are casual and relaxed but I love nothing more than going to a
beautiful restaurant that has multiple courses and multiple wines with different courses and
I grew up cooking French food so for me I still love going to France and eating in some of those
incredible Parisian restaurants and yeah so it's probably one of those fancy three Michelin star
but a lot of people find it stuffy and boring but I think it's fabulous.
Well wouldn't I love to have one of those meals with you but as long
as your caramel slice was served up for my dessert it would be complete.
Curtis thank you that was fabulous. Really fun nice chatting to you. Oh so great chatting.
Curtis is such a great Aussie bloke doesn't he have a big heart but he also has incredible
business smarts as well. Now his latest range of cookware is called Cook with Curtis. I can put
my hand up and say it's fantastic I've been using it at home perfect for my spag bowl my stir fries
I mean I'm still a crap housewife I don't think it's going to change that but it's a really great
cookware range. In my next episode I speak with award-winning actor Faras Durrani about how he
put pressure on himself to please everyone around him at the cost of his own happiness.
I guess it was the small voice I was listening to the little voice the tiny voice that was saying
there's more to you than this you've envisioned something bigger than this like how much of this
people pleasing do I do and when is it going to take a toll and for me I just said I have to
pump the brakes I have to jump back and take a look at my life from a different perspective
and that's what I did. The Jess Rowe Big Talk Show was presented by me Jess Rowe audio producer
Chris Marsh executive producer Nick McClure supervising producer Sam Cavanaugh until next
time remember to live big life is just too crazy and glorious to waste time on the stuff that
doesn't matter. Listener.