Using Bra Bots And Thermal Mannequins To Create Innovative Apparel With Nike Womens Research Directo

Dr. Bridget Munro has always had a love for science and sport, so it's only natural that

this path has led her into the role of Women's Research Lead at the Nike Sport Research Laboratory.

Growing up in Tasmania, she spent her early years studying in biomechanics in Australia

before her and her family moved to Portland, Oregon to join the Nike team.

Here, Bridget has played a major role in the ongoing investment in women's specific innovation.

Bridget and the Nike Sports Research Laboratory team test women's products with women's specific

science and technology, like the Nike BraBot, which simulates multi-directional breast movement,

and Haley, Nike's female-form thermal mannequin that assesses temperature and sweat zones during

exercise. My name's Sophie and I'm the producer here at the Female Athlete Project. On this week's

episode, Chloe caught up with Dr. Munro to hear just what it's like to work as an academic

insider.

At the Female Athlete Project, we are huge advocates for the removal of barriers that

have traditionally prevented girls and women from staying in sport. So we hope you enjoy

this episode as much as we did.

I'm going to go with Dr. Bridget. Welcome to the Female Athlete Project.

Thanks, Chloe. It's great to meet you and thank you so much for having me on.

I'm really looking forward to this chat today. Can you give our listeners,

a bit of a rundown about where you first found maybe a passion for research and innovation?

Yeah, I grew up in Tasmania, so the small island, but I love sport and I love medicine.

And so I found a degree called sports medicine, which was super exciting. Turned out it was

probably exercise science. And in that degree, I really gravitated towards biomechanics.

Biomechanics is like engineering of the body and learning about how the body works.

So I'm really looking forward to that.

And then as an undergraduate student, I got to go to a conference, a footwear conference,

and I met someone from Nike, the Nike Sport Research Lab, and I didn't even know it existed.

And from there, they told me that I needed a PhD. That was my first spoiler. You don't need a PhD

to work at Nike. Probably a bit naive, but then I did my PhD. I started down an academic route.

And then one day, there was an opportunity to do a PhD. And I was like, okay, I'm going to do this.

And then one day, I got an opportunity to come to Nike over to Portland. So I packed up my family

and moved across to the other side of the world. And then at Nike, I was really asked to,

like, I've worked on footwear and apparel. And then one day, I really got to propose a body of

work to try and think about women and how we could really allow women to be active and help them

perform and get better. And I wasn't alone. And lots and lots of amazing teammates from around

the world helped support me. And I was able to get a job at Nike. And I was able to get a job at

and we were able to drive new knowledge and products and experiences for her.

And so now I just get to do that every single day. And so there's that lifelong love of learning,

that really competitive spirit that I want her to win in everything that she does. And so we

consistently challenge ourselves and be challenged by our athletes to not only be better, but also be

better ourselves and get them to be better and meet their goals. It's quite an incredible story

to move to the other side of the world. Did you envision when you're getting

into the degree and dipping your toes in the water that you might end up moving your family

to Portland and in a role at such a huge global company? I actually didn't. I think I found a

degree that was three years. And in my mind, I'm not going to waste time at university.

I'm going to be in and out. And then I stayed and did research and I stayed and did a PhD.

And then I stayed and did a postdoc. And then I stayed and went on staff. And it occurred to me

at some point that I'd never left school. And so it was just a great opportunity to start going,

well, what could be next? Like, what's my next life or next journey? And that's where coming

to work for a company, a company like Nike with such a strong background in science and innovation,

and I always loved seeing what they were going to release. Their designs were so intuitive. It

was just so exciting to come on over. And so I made the jump. And one of my

biggest eye openers was just how passionate as a company everyone here is about the athlete.

And that was just so amazing to just link into that. And then for me personally,

it's fun watching my kids try and navigate a sports world in another country and me try and

navigate a sports world in another country and think about growing up in that stage and learning

everything I'm learning and how it might apply to them. Bridget, you are an Aussie working over in

the States, but you've got a pretty cool Aussie claim to

fame from back home. Yeah, I am an Aussie and I have two daughters who are into sport and they

were both born in Wollongong and both of them learned to swim in Emma McKean's swim school,

like family swim school. So it's a pretty cool claim to fame. That's amazing. And your daughter

is also playing, well, do you say soccer or football? If you're in the US, you're going to

go soccer, aren't you? Well, I also work at Nike, so we call it global football.

Good.

Yes. Yes. But yes, I have my youngest daughter plays soccer. She's with the Thorns Academy,

our professional local team. And so her name is Mackenzie. And now we have Mackenzie coming over

from the Matildas. And I think it was cute that she'd said, as long as she knows I'm the first

Aussie Mac at the Thorns. I love that. She's got the title. She's the first one there.

Yeah.

Can you give us,

an insight into your current role with Nike, what it looks like?

Yeah. It's an interesting role. I am looking at women's research in the sport research lab.

One of the only people on the team that look at the whole body. So we have teammates that look

at footwear and apparel product. And I'm really looking specifically at the holistic female

athlete. So how do we really lean in? And so that, what that means for me is sometimes I'm

working with an athlete in the lab. Sometimes as a woman and an athlete, because if you have a body

at Nike, you're an athlete. I'm in the lab getting data collected on me. I'm reading scientific

papers. I'm informing products. I'm using technology to answer questions. And then daily,

I'm really working with our innovators and designers, our makers, our business teams,

and communicators across Nike. And that really is trying to deliver her the right product that

solves her problems and needs and helps her to be better.

And the right services to female athletes. So, and yeah, I also get paid to watch sports.

So that's pretty good.

That's, that's the career right there. That's it, isn't it?

What does it look like when an athlete comes into the lab?

So when an athlete comes into the lab, it's really trying to understand

what are we trying to learn from that athlete? So in the lab itself,

the sport research lab at Nike has been, it's more than 40 years old.

It's been around for a really long time. We have a team of more than 70 and we have people with

degrees in biomechanics, physiology, neuroscience, engineering, sports science, athletic training.

I can just keep going. Data science. Like, so it's so broad. It's so exciting. And in the lab,

we have our headquarters here in Portland, Oregon, and then we have a global status as well.

In our lab here at Portland, we have lots of tools and technologies that we have a full-size

basket. We have a full-size basket. We have a full-size basket. We have a full-size basket.

We have a basketball court that's fully instrumented, soccer field, fatigue track,

treadmill base. We have environmental chambers, perception rooms, as well as athlete

recovery areas, et cetera. And so we have a lot of tools and exciting technology.

And the big thing is the staff is so amazing to try and sit down and think through

with all this technology, what is the situation that we're trying to solve? What are we trying

to learn?

And so we have to be able to learn it, think about the fidelity of the data that we need,

and then drive our insights. And so if we think about that, if we apply it to an example,

for a female athlete, she is so exciting. She's so dynamic. She's constantly changing,

whether it's monthly, over every different stage of life. So we have collected thousands

of body scans to really think about what is her body shape inclusively across all sizes,

across all sizes. And so we have a lot of tools and technologies that we can use to try and

build a better fit for her body. And so we have a lot of tools and technologies that we can use to

try and build a better fit for her body. And so if we think about that, if we think about

what is the way that we can build our apparel to better fit her body, what is the way we can

build shoes that fit her foot? And so if we think just about our bras, we now offer 70 sizes.

So we are trying to make sure that no matter who you are, what your body type,

we can find a bra that will fit you and remove that barrier so you can be active.

Then we think about, okay, it's really easy to design something when someone's got a bra,

but we also need to be experts in how she moves. So when she's moving, if we continue with the

example of the breast and her bra, we think about how the breast tissue moves. We think about where

she's sweating. We think about the function she needs in the bra and her comfort, and then

start working on what are we trying to do? What does that bra have to function to do?

Does it have to try and provide bullying? Does it have to try and provide support?

Where is there chafing? And really thinking and obsessing our product from that standpoint.

And then we really think about it from that standpoint of mind. So we've understood how

she's shaped. We've understand how she's moving. We understand her physiology. And then we're

really trying to drive, how does she like the product? What is her preference for the product?

And what are those drivers of how she perceives that product will help her look good, play good,

and ultimately just...

Be better on field, pitch, whatever it is.

What does it look like from that diversity and inclusion perspective

from the research element? Is it a collection of really broad amounts of data?

Yeah, great question. We do a lot of data capture internal to the lab, and we do it in the field.

So we can do it. We can capture data,

really trying to hone in on the data.

And then we've really tried to build a lab that allows play. So we can make sure that what we're

building at this very isolated laboratory type setting actually translates onto the field. And

it's actually doing what we need it to do in the field. And we really work very closely with our

designers to make sure that that design is an intuitive of the function, and our makers to

make sure it's being made in the right way, and all the way through the chain,

into the lab. And then we've really tried to build a lab that allows play. So we can make sure that

it's being made in the right way, and all the way through the chain, and all the way through the chain,

into the lab. And then we've really tried to build a lab that allows play. So we can make sure that

it's being made in the right way, and all the way through the chain, and all the way through the chain,

also on how we're building the product, how we're talking about the product,

and how we're educating our athlete on why that product might be best for her,

and how we can get her into the right product. And so from that diversity perspective,

that's why we have great teams and people from all different backgrounds,

because it challenges us to think differently about how to build what she needs at all times.

Yeah, it's such an important point, isn't it? The importance of having

people in the room that have diverse backgrounds to be able to help with the decision-making

processes moving forward. So it's not just... I often refer back to a podcast we did with a

futurist, and she talked about the importance of having diverse people in rooms, and boardrooms,

and leadership meetings, because their decision-making about the future will be based

on their past and their own history. So it's so important to have those people there, right?

It is, completely. And then if we build on the layer,

we really need to build...

We need to build great relationships with our female athletes and build trust.

Because it's not until we get to that, that we really learn what she's seeking,

what problems she has, and what we need to try and build for. And so on that journey,

we get to learn... For her legging, she might really care about fit, feel, and function,

but what does that actually mean? And so let's learn about that. And then we can tailor our

product offerings for her. We build for her, and then we can educate her,

and then supply products that are really focused in those areas for the market,

and really try and solve a problem that she might have had, solve a barrier that she might have had,

or really enhance the performance that she's looking for.

Just touching on that word barrier, what have you found through the research and work you're doing

around apparel historically being a barrier for women to get involved in sport?

Yeah, it is. We say no bra, no bra.

So we've really tried to understand breasts, breast tissue, function of bra, build bras.

And our new franchises now allow you to think about what is the look that you want,

and then what is the function that you need? And so you can get the look and work it out in a high,

low, and medium support, as well as where you might want adjustability and closures.

We also know that maybe bleed through on your period is a bit of an

area which can affect whether girls want to engage in sport.

And so we've offered Nike Leak Protection Period.

And that product really has an ultra-thin absorbent liner, and it tries to stop,

like it is stopping that secondary layer of that bleed through of period leaks.

And that's allowing her to be a lot more confident in her sport.

We also know that just because we wear a bra, women are at a disadvantage

from a thermoregulation standpoint.

It's insulating.

So how do we try and build layers?

Like that bra is releasing because now I can be active without pain,

but it might affect my hydration level.

So then we're trying to think through how do I build it in a way that isn't going to have a

negative or a disadvantage to the athlete?

So it gives us, we get peace of mind, we get confidence,

and then we get the function we need to be our best athlete.

You've already touched on, obviously, the sports bra and the breast being a big part of it and the

period.

We know that there's a really big gender gap in research.

Is there anything else that you're finding that's unique to women's bodies,

acknowledging that women's bodies are also very diverse?

So along that, I think we talked about, we talked about the periods, we talked about bras.

We talked about really designing for every life stage too.

So we expanded our offering last year.

We've had a whole Nike M collection.

We were trying to support her through that time of pregnancy.

Yeah.

And then last year we released our Nike M bra, which is, allows you to wear a hands-free pump.

So it's pump compatible.

So you can keep being active whilst wearing your bra.

And that has been, you know, like learning more about her diversity in shape, her diversity in

need, and then really leaning into thinking about what does she want in her sport?

We released our AlphaFly 3, which is our competitive bra.

And then we released our AlphaFly 3, which is our competitive shoe, trying to think about speed.

And in that shoe, we actually work with a whole lot of female marathon runners to think about comfort and drive the design from her perspective so that she gets the speed advantage and has that great experience that we also give to our male athletes, but making sure that we're looking at it from the female athlete perspective.

From the other end, we have athletes who maybe speed isn't their goal.

And so instead they want to,

maybe enjoy moving.

And so how can we try and come up with products that do less work and allow someone to have more fun?

And in that we released the Motiva shoe, which was made for walking and jogging.

And we put in different rocker geometries and cushioning.

And that shoe is really trying to remove her distractions or disruptions and make her run feel smoother.

And so we want her to come back for more.

So on that, it's really trying to think about how do I make every athlete?

Want to be active because we know the benefits of an active lifestyle.

So how do we do that?

And then one of my personal mantras is how do I allow the athlete, the female athlete to be active in the way they want?

So if you want to get a gold medal, what am I delivering to you?

If you want to be active and run around with your kids, what am I delivering to you?

So that full spectrum.

And I think on that full spectrum, that's the exciting part.

That's where we continue to learn and challenge each other to do better.

Yeah, I love that idea of the spectrum.

Because I think at the Female Athlete Project, we want to highlight women who are performing in sport at the elite level in order to empower women who just want to be active and who might not, as you said, want to win an Olympic gold medal.

But it's about catering to this really broad range of women, isn't it?

Chloe, there's so much opportunity for our female athlete.

And at Nike, we exist really to champion athletes and sport.

We know that women and girls aren't just the future, but they're leading change in sport.

And this has really led us to this belief of designing products that are increasingly inclusive and consider both the body and the mind throughout all life stages for her on and off the field.

And so at Nike, with all the research that we're doing, we really know more about the female body more than ever before.

And we continue to invest in Weidman's research and sports science technology and data visualization.

And this is really helping challenge us to really...

Invest in the opportunity of the female athlete and understand how she's moving and what she needs to be her best athlete and that we can be part of this change.

As technology continues to improve, you've touched on obviously some of the incredible facilities that you've got in Portland.

But how can you integrate new technology into the research that you're doing in the lab?

We use technology in a number of different ways.

And so in our lab, I talked about some of that.

We...

We are using devices that collect data in lab.

We are using devices that collect data out of lab.

I'm sure that you probably use GPS, heart rate, all of those sorts of different systems to track your movement and motion.

And so we're using all of that technology.

And then I think the next step comes in how we work with all of our partners to really try and visualize that.

That allows us to translate it into the product and the services that she needs.

So we're trying to gather a lot and then think about the ways in which we need to analyze and process those data in a way that is going to give us meaningful insights that build better products for her and better services for her.

So that real focus in merging disparate data sources together and thinking through it.

And that's where we're really trying to think about the body and the mind and life, you know, on and off pitch.

So trying to really think about...

So trying to really think about that athlete holistically and not just focus on a shoe or a bra, but really thinking about what that athlete needs as a whole athlete.

When you do the research, use all the technology, merge all the data together, come up with these products that hopefully look at that whole athlete, what is the series of tests that that product goes through?

So the product can go through a number of things.

So some of the research we're doing is very foundational to understand how someone moves.

How someone sweats, what happens to every drop of sweat.

Then from those insights, like we would translate that into with our teams and our design teams would come up with new methods of make, new materials, new ways of putting components together.

From there, it could do a few different things.

We have been super fortunate.

We managed to have Haley.

We purchased Haley, which is our female sweaty mannequin.

And so...

So she sweats.

Yeah.

So we can put clothing on her and see how she, like that clothing might react.

And that can help us drive insights through the apparel lens before we get to athletes.

We also have a bra bot.

So we have a robotic soft tissue robot.

Like we can look at breast motion.

So we're trying to understand some of these things through a robotic lens first before we get to athletes.

So we can work out those designs and then we move into athlete testing because we know athletes are our biggest asset.

Like really what happens on the athlete is our home truth.

And so the athletes come into the lab or work in the film in the field.

And that's where we get to say, did the insight translate into that product?

Is that product doing something for the athlete in the right way?

And then we also get the feedback on, do they like it?

Is it comfortable?

Would they wear it?

So...

I'm still stuck on this.

I'm still stuck on this soft tissue robot.

It's quite amazing.

So like, are we talking when you're doing that to get ready for a sports bra, like the breast tissue, like it can bounce the robot?

Yeah.

Wow.

And Hayley out there, my reg, she can sweat.

So it's great because it allows us to go through iterations in our product design and those iterations and move quickly through to what we want to actually move on to athletes.

Yeah, it's quite amazing.

I love that stuff.

It's very, very cool.

Can we take a step back from the products and the research and look more at your role?

What have been some of the biggest challenges that you've faced in your career to date?

Sometimes I get too excited and I just want to do it all and doing it all doesn't necessarily move us anywhere.

So we really need to make sure that we're trying to think about the things that are going to have the biggest impact, whether it's to build an inclusive, like be more inclusive, whether it's to drive performance in a certain way, whatever that goal is.

But really being focused.

And when we get that right, it's super rewarding and we get really rewarded.

But I think that's my biggest challenge in this role, is all of that opportunity on where to go next.

I've been asking my guests one of my favorite questions, which is a bit tricky, and it's do you have a favorite failure?

I know, it is, it is an interesting one.

My favorite failure is actually a sport one.

So, I grew up as a swimmer.

playing a lot of sport and then I chose tennis and probably didn't have the right mindset or

got injuries pretty early so maybe that fell away but I also thought to myself which you'll tell me

the nerd in me but I think I could do a PhD and then go on the tennis circuit that was probably

a big failure so maybe maybe wouldn't recommend that for others in the future don't prioritize

the PhD over your professional sporting career yeah um for me it's been amazing like it it's

definitely led me to lots of different places and I've had an amazing career and I'm still there

and it's fun to navigate but it was an interesting thought at that time you touched on the reward

that comes with when you get things right is there a part of your role that you find the most

rewarding so I think um if I could just

use and a quick anecdote when I have a female come into the lab and let's say we're doing bra

testing and I get her to try on different bras and all of a sudden you see her face change her

posture change there's just an instant um response and then I really feel that I'm actually changing

the lives of women every single day and so that is just so rewarding that that person leaves

a very different person and thinking about what they could do

they're instantly jumping around they're wanting to be active and it's so it's giving

all of those responses that we want to see out in the world and to me when I see those those

things it's super rewarding and and likewise when you build those relationships and build that trust

the things that um our female athletes tell us that we need to solve we get much deeper as

opposed to the higher level things and um and I just think that's really rewarding

as well to really hear what we need to deliver and then for us to think through hey if we deliver

this to you you might not have thought about it but what do you think um and that's a really

fun and exciting space yeah absolutely we did a mini series recently with some of the Matilda's

staff and wanted to get this insight into women working in sport that didn't have to be the

athletes and challenging this idea that you have to be an elite athlete to be involved

in sport you're obviously

paving the way in the research side of things and innovation do you have anything you've learned

along the way that you might give us as advice to someone younger who wants to get into the industry

yeah I think um for me I keep coming back to imagine if I knew what I know now and if all

those people around me knew what we know now um and how how I could be better supported as an

athlete and how I could maybe navigate and you know I think that's a really fun and exciting

experience um and I think that's really what's happened in my career um but I know like I know

I'm contributing and I know I love what I do and I keep I keep getting down to let's take the

opportunities let's get after it let's not settle let's let let's go for it and um I think that's

really what's happened in my career it's been a lot of here's an opportunity let's give it a go

and see if it works don't be scared of change it's not always going to be positive um and I think

really that's what sport teaches us well right like I think that's what I've been doing for a long time

like it's emotional it's never like you're constantly trying to improve you have to deal

with triumph you can be competitive but you also have to work out how to navigate um some of those

losses and and so I think that's my big thing just imagine that world if you knew more and how that

can really help that athlete and so let's let's do it together and get up yeah I love that thank

you so much for your time today it's been amazing to get

some real insight into the incredible work that you're doing and how that's informing the products

that you're putting out so thank you so much yeah thank you for having me great to chat to you

thanks so much for listening if you got something out of this episode I would absolutely love it

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