How Dedication And Persistence Pays Off With Aussie Footballer Emily Gielnik

Emily Yelnik has played more than 50 games for the Matildas and County.

It's a career that so far included an Olympic Games and a FIFA World Cup.

But her journey into that side was far from the textbook.

In fact, it was a school camp at the Australian Institute of Sport

that started her footballing career,

when her PE teacher asked if she could join in

on a training session with the Matildas.

Fast forward and Emily made her debut with the Brisbane Raw at age 18

and then with the Australian Under-19s,

where she scored a hat-trick on debut

and eventually with the Tillys a year later.

After an extensive career around the world,

Emily is back scoring goals at the Melbourne Victory.

In her spare time, she works with fellow Matilda Chloe Legazzo,

running Future Baller,

clinics designed to equip young girls with holistic football skills

and a career in the sport.

and mental strength.

My name's Sophie and I'm the producer here at the Female Athlete Project.

On this week's episode, Chloe caught up with Emily,

who's worked tooth and nail to keep getting herself a spot

in the Matildas squad over the last 12 years

and she's nowhere near done yet.

This episode is brought to you by Monash IVF,

the exclusive fertility wellness partner for the Australian Athletes Alliance,

providing athletes like Emily with reproductive education

and care.

This chat shows just how far hard work can get you

if you never give up, and we hope you enjoy it.

Emily, welcome to the Female Athlete Project.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Yeah, I'm very keen to have a chat.

Can you kick us off by taking us back to your childhood

and describing Emily as a little kid?

Yeah, it's an interesting one, actually.

So I've always been active.

I live and breathe physical activity,

sport for as long as I can remember.

Mum's had a really hard time trying to get me in for dinner,

believe it or not, because I'm such a foodie now.

So I was one of those kids, you know,

that played from dusk till dawn in all sports.

And as I started to, I guess, get towards like that age of 10 mark,

I actually played basketball.

That was my first love.

And I played rugby league with the boys, believe it or not.

But then these boys got massive.

And things changed me pretty quickly.

Then I've been knocking on the door,

begging my mum to let me play football, which is soccer,

just for those who aren't sure.

And yeah, started my footballing journey at the age of 12 at Redlands United.

And I had a, who's a very good friend of mine, her dad,

he had a big lump of, there was two coaches

and they had about 60 kids to choose from.

And they got to pick two teams.

And he only just told me this story a few years ago.

And he said, I don't care which kid you have,

but all I know is I'm having her on my team.

And that was me.

And I think I scored 60 goals that season.

So he made a pretty good choice.

Yeah.

So didn't grow up with any skill, didn't grow up with any good coaches,

wasn't extremely talented.

But right from a young age, I just, I just lived and breathed sport.

And I just had a burning desire to always be the best.

And that's far out, 60 goals in a season.

Sure, there's got to be some talent there if you're scoring 60 goals in a season.

Well, most of them were toe punts, which you don't see anymore.

Yeah.

So yeah, if you're, they're actually really hard to say.

With toe punts, you never know where they're going to go.

So, you know, I look back now.

The unpredictable nature.

Unpredictable nature.

And I look back now and I wonder,

imagine if I had some sort of skill level back then,

because a lot of mine was, I would,

my skill at that point was to kick around one side of the playoff

and run around the other and use my speed.

So everything was just finding a way

because I didn't grow up in any of those programs.

I didn't learn skills.

A lot of it was, I taught myself how to add score goals

and the driving technique.

And, you know, all of these things just came to me naturally as time went on.

And then I started training and playing with boys for as long as I could,

which was, you know, one of the best advice I can give

to any young girls who want to make it out there.

Play and train with boys as long as you can,

because the competition level is just far greater

and it just makes you resilient.

And, yeah, finally, you know,

I had a dream to get an A-League contract

and it happened a real roundabout way for me.

I'll try to cut this story short,

but I wasn't really making it through the pathway

and all my friends were getting into the QAS program,

which was the academy back then.

The stepping stone to getting a Brisbane Royal contract.

And I always had little niggles and, you know,

just it wasn't really falling for me.

And I actually went on a school trip with my soccer team to the AIS.

And the Matildas happened to be training there.

They had a training camp during my school trip.

And my teacher, my PE teacher at the time,

thought it was a bright idea to go and ask Tom Samani,

who was the head coach at the time,

hey, I've got this kid, can you let her train with the national team?

And, like, I thought he was bonkers.

Like, who asked that?

And also, like, who's crazy enough to let this young girl train

with your national team?

Tom said yes, who was the head coach.

And it was a fitness session that very day.

And when I say I had all the OG Matildas in there,

like some of the all-time greats.

So I'm this young 15-year-old, you know,

absolutely this is a sink or swim moment

and I probably had the best training of my life.

And...

But he asked my teacher if I wanted to play an internal game

against some boys the next day.

And my school came and watched at the AIS.

And he was on the phone to Jeff Hopkins,

which was the QIS Academy coach at that current time,

who I played for last year in Melbourne Victory.

And he said, you've got to get this girl into your program.

And a year later, I had my first A-League contract for Brisbane Raw.

So...

That story is...

Yeah, it's crazy.

Oh, my goodness.

I love to tell kids that, like,

you don't know when your time is

and you've always got to hang on to some belief

because, you know, it can happen in a school trip.

It can happen when you're playing in a park.

Like, you don't know when your time is

and when someone's going to recognise

that you've got something special.

So you've got to just first and foremost

believe in yourself and never stop believing.

So that was my unofficial pathway to where I am now.

That story is incredible.

There's a couple of things I want to pick out

in terms of those themes.

So you had a teacher who literally just said,

can you give her a crack in training?

You killed it at training.

And then did you play with the Matildas team the next day?

Yes, it was an internal match against some boys.

So, yeah, it's mind-blowing, you know.

That teacher obviously believed in me,

thought I never knew I had...

I never knew...

It was hard in that moment.

You're like, am I good enough?

Or, like, why am I not in here already?

Like, I mustn't be good enough.

So there was a lot of self-doubt.

But I've had...

The head coach say yes to me.

My PE coach who believes in me.

And I'm just being thrown into the lion's den.

And it was a sink or swim moment that I realise now,

later on in my career, I thrive in those moments.

I love being an underdog.

And, yeah, I had the training of my life and then got a call back.

And then before you know it, my life, I mean, changed in an instant.

Oh, it's just amazing.

Through that, you talked about the fact that as a little kid,

you weren't the most talented.

No.

Like, what do you think?

Because there's so many kids out there, right?

Like, I was like that in basketball.

You touched on being in basketball in the early days.

I was like that in basketball.

I was never the most talented.

But what do you think it is?

Like, is it finding another way?

Is it being the hardest worker?

Like, how is it bouncing back from that stuff when you're not the kid

that gets selected in the academies and all of those programs?

It's an easy one for me.

And it's taken me a really long time to learn it.

It's never stop believing in yourself.

Because over your years, and especially your younger years,

which is so critical,

there's going to be coaches that don't believe in you.

There's going to be coaches that don't think you're good enough.

There's going to be parents that are comparing you to their daughters.

So you can't compare yourself to any other players

because you should never want to be any other player.

Like, me now, I don't want to be Sam Kerr.

I want Sam to be Sam, and I want to be known as Emily Gilnick.

You know, it's no disrespect to Sam.

It's just she's great at what she does, and I'm great at what I do,

just to put that into context.

But it's to stop comparing yourself to everybody.

Everybody else, just stay in your lane.

And, you know, for me, because I didn't have any technical ability and skill,

it's something I really started to work on.

I was like, hey, I've got something here.

So, you know, it was, you know, not many people know this,

but it was a matter of getting up at 5 a.m. two or three times a week

to train with a private coach on my left foot only.

So, like, I didn't have a left foot back then.

It was just for standing on.

And now I scored most of my international goals on my left foot.

But nobody knows that I used to train for an hour and a half

two times a week just on my left foot.

So, you know, and it's being the first one at training

and the last one to leave.

And I did that when I was younger, and I do it still to this day,

and I'm 32.

People think I'm crazy, but you've got to be a little bit crazy

to achieve greatness.

So definitely it's just to believe in yourself no matter what.

And, you know, it's not about proving people wrong.

It's about proving yourself right.

And I've always just tried to remember that when times are tough.

Yeah, I love that.

What is it about the single?

Single swim moments that makes you thrive?

The challenge.

I love a challenge.

There's something I can't explain it that I want to sink my teeth

into knowing that people think either, A, I can't do it,

or maybe I'm doubting that I'm not good enough.

For instance, my goal has been to play all over the world

at some of the best clubs, and I've been able to do that.

And I've never gone to a club that's made me feel comfortable.

So I played at Bayern Munich, which was, you know,

German giants, and they spoke German, and it's freezing cold.

It's everything the opposite of what's making you comfortable.

I played at Aston Villa.

I played in Japan.

I played in Liverpool.

Like all of these in Sweden, Norway, Canada,

all of these uncomfortable situations because they make,

they force me to develop, they force me to grow up,

and they force me to get better.

And I like being in those uncomfortable positions because, for me,

I know it's a matter of,

I'm going to rise above, whereas there's a lot of people,

and it's sad to see because there's a lot of wasted talent out there,

that when they get posed with a challenge or an uncomfortable situation,

it's in the too hard basket.

And sometimes people want something for nothing,

but I find great reward in fighting for something and earning the right,

as in earning my first national team cap.

I mean, I must have been on the radar for years before he brought me in

to the national team.

And I went,

I went to camps back and back and back until I earned my first national team cap.

I got to share the moment with Katrina Gori in 2012 against Japan,

but because I had worked so hard to get there,

that moment felt so much more special.

Whereas if I had just gone into one camp and played my first cap,

it's great, but I haven't really earned it.

Right.

Um, so I've always been a big driver of uncomfortable situations,

but, but fighting, um, fighting for that reward.

Can you describe what it,

what it felt like in 2012 to pull on the Matildas jersey and walk out onto the

pitch and represent your country after all of that hard work?

Surreal.

Not only did I not touch the ball for 30 minutes because Japan was unbelievable,

but it was a pinch me moment.

It was a pinch me moment.

Right.

Um, you know,

I, I love Japan and they were one of the,

they were in the top five at that point.

And it was a matter of,

you know,

just looking down your numbers going on,

you're going on with some of the all time greats are playing against some of the best players in the world and a coach.

What,

what gets me in this moment?

A coach has a certain amount of players to choose from in the country.

And in that moment to go into a game,

whether you start or come on and he's chosen me and that represents that he believes in me.

And I've always needed coaches to believe in me for me to go push one more level.

I'm a big,

I'm a big confidence player.

I need someone to back me,

but I'm also driven by not being backed.

So it's,

I'm on,

I'm on two sides of the story here,

but you know,

being put on in that crucial game and it's a big game,

um,

you know,

and sharing that with Katrina,

it was pretty special.

It's something that I never,

well,

I could have only dreamed of.

I never,

you always have doubt as a player.

You never know if you're going to quite get there.

You always hope you will.

Um,

so,

you know,

to really feel like I've made it,

but for me,

it wasn't enough.

Like most people would be so happy at that moment,

but I,

it actually drove,

me a little bit to insanity.

I wanted more.

I wanted to start matches.

I wanted to build caps.

I wanted to score goals.

Um,

my satisfactory level is always so low.

I'm always pushing for higher,

for greater.

Um,

so it drove me,

you know,

it's,

it's one thing I always say to these,

to players who are aspiring to be Matildas.

It's one thing to get into the national team,

but it takes another level to stay there.

And I've been able to stay there for 11 years.

And even though I've,

through injury,

I've missed the world cup,

which was,

you know,

life changing for everyone.

And now with injury,

I'm pulling up short against with this Olympics,

I've still managed to go to a world cup and Olympics,

which is pretty special,

but I'm still unsatisfied,

which is crazy to some people.

But I just,

I just think there's another level for me out there.

I'm really interested by this concept of like that idea of when the coach puts

you on,

they are believing in you,

right?

They are making a decision to say,

Hey,

I'm backing you.

Right.

Now I've seen in you what I need to see to,

to back you and put you out on the ground.

And I think as athletes,

a lot of the time we get like in those big moments,

you can so easily kind of go into your shell.

Like how am I going to perform?

What am I going to do here?

And I really like this objective perspective of like,

Hey,

the coach has seen enough in me to have faith to put me out there.

So I must be doing something right.

Absolutely.

I've got a great story on this,

which is ticks all the boxes with that.

So my first world cup,

we had,

we had Ante Milicic and you know,

he,

he,

he sets the standard so high.

He's his professional limit.

Professionalism is world-class something I've never experienced before

personally as a player.

And,

you know,

I,

I got,

I got selected for my first world cup.

So there's tears,

there's joy.

I'm proud.

I'm excited.

I feel like I'm in good form and we play Italy game one.

So we're in the match.

There's obviously three games for the group and we play Italy.

I don't come on at all,

not a single minute.

So my world comes crashing down.

I am like just feeling deflated.

I thought I was in a better spot.

I thought I was at the top of his,

you know,

you know,

I thought he believed in me.

I'm having these doubts.

We lose that game,

which was crazy.

We then had to play Brazil and this was the most important match.

If we don't win this match,

we're not,

it's impossible to get through the group.

So this was a do or die game.

He puts his arm around me.

I'm like,

he puts his arm around me the day before the Brazil game,

before he's chosen the squad.

And he said,

you know why you didn't play that game against Italy?

And I said,

no,

but you know,

I'm,

you know,

I'm not feeling good about it.

And he said,

well,

get that out of the way because you're starting against Brazil and we need to

win against Brazil.

And I'm playing my best team against Brazil.

And like,

I'm actually getting,

I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it because that,

that gave,

that told me everything I needed to hear.

And it's players that,

you know,

you're in that moment,

I ripped myself off and I thought,

you know,

maybe he doesn't believe in me.

Maybe I'm not good enough to be here,

but to hear that from him that,

Hey, you're actually,

I've kept you out of that one,

but it's not because you aren't good enough because I've kept you for this,

which is our most important game.

And it's now a must win.

And we win that game three,

two,

and we were down to a nil.

So,

you know,

and,

you know,

no one will know,

but I was,

pardon my French,

but I was shitting myself and throwing up because I was so,

I had so much anxiety and it was so hot.

I think I had heat stroke.

But for the two days straight before that match,

I was completely depleted on what was the most important game of my life and career.

And I didn't want to let him down.

And we won that game three,

two.

So that was a real pivotal time in my career to hear something so influential.

And to all also go back to my roots and what I believe in is to never stop believing in yourself,

even though in that moment,

I felt my world was crashing down off the game one,

but in the,

in the scheme of things,

it wasn't.

Often on this podcast,

I kind of like go along like chronological order and like chat about when this happened,

like,

but there's so many themes in your life.

I don't know.

There's so many cool things coming out of these stories that I just am keen to unpack.

But this concept of actually having the conversation,

with the coach,

right?

Like you said,

I don't know why I didn't play,

but I was not very happy about it.

Like I'm so big on encouraging,

particularly younger athletes as they come into elite environments to learn how to have hard conversations,

which is a really overwhelming thing to do,

particularly in the early stages.

But if you don't have a conversation with your coach or whoever it is making these selection decisions,

like you did,

you start telling yourself this story in your head of like,

Oh,

I must not be good enough.

Or he thinks I'm not good enough.

I mean,

I've made,

I've made this mistake before.

There was a period of time where I wasn't playing as much.

And so in my mind,

I've created a whole selection of doubt.

Whereas what I should have done is gone straight to the coach.

And,

and said,

what is it that you need from me to get that game time?

Because now for the last few camps,

I've just written myself off.

And like,

even though it was a really difficult conversation with him and,

you know,

it was actually soul crushing.

I needed to hear the truth because,

you know,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was,

it was truly the truth because sometimes getting that feedback,

whether it's good or bad,

you just need feedback.

It's important for every athlete in all,

all walks of life and all sports.

So in that moment,

his feedback was,

I'm not up to the standard that he needs me to be.

So what that did is it brought me down a peg and it made me realize,

okay.

I'm I don't need to lose belief in myself,

but I'm maybe I'm not at the,

maybe I'm not at the level right now.

I'm still in here.

So he still believes in me.

I need to respect that,

but now I need to up my game again because,

because that's what I feel like raising .

So,

you know,

And I don't want to use the word complacent because I've never been complacent in my life,

but maybe everyone else has just stepped it up and I'm falling short.

So feedback is always good to get.

And it's better to ask that earlier rather than later.

And it's not about saying, hey, coach, put me in.

I deserve it.

I don't ever think I deserve something more than someone else.

I just want to be doing enough that he has no choice but to play me because I am the

person for the job.

So that's the belief that I have.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think as we're talking about it, it's kind of like it moves from being a subjective

thing where you feel like it might be about like opinion and things like that or what

you're telling yourself to becoming putting pressure on the coach to make it an objective

decision where they say to you in order to be playing or in order to be in my squad,

you need to be doing X, Y, Z better.

And then if you have something that's objective to go away and work on, and then you can go

back and say, I've done these things like pressures on you now to kind of live up to

your word in a sense.

Rather than it being all on you as a player.

That's right.

And, you know, I'll touch on that because sometimes you can actually go away and do

X, Y, Z, and the coach may still not reward you.

And now that's happened to me in the past.

And that's when it's so important, especially at elite level, that you don't lose sight

in your value because there's going to be a point where you've ticked all the boxes

for them.

You've gone away and you've done everything and you feel so deserving and it's heartbreak.

And you need to know that there's, there's.

The universe, for some reason, just doesn't want to give you what you want right now and

what you deserve.

And you've got to respect the coach's decision.

And I'll never be a player that goes back and says, well, I did this and I'm scoring

these amount of goals.

And this is unfair.

I just want to keep proving and keep developing because I know my time will come.

And it's, it's a never stop believing routine that you need to just be reminding yourself

because things aren't going to go your way sometimes, even when you feel like you deserve

it.

Absolutely.

It's unfortunately a lesson.

I think both you and I've had to learn through sport.

It's, it's pretty brutal that you don't, you don't always get what you deserve and on,

it can be so cruel, right?

Like on that topic, you touched on the fact that you missed out on the 2023 World Cup

on home soil due to injury.

How did that feel for you?

It was, it was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to go through.

And I think some people might think that's like.

You know, I'm over exaggerating, but for me personally, it was the, it, it would have

been the pinnacle of my career and yes, I've been to another World Cup, but you can't replace

a home World Cup, right?

And so it was emotionally the toughest thing I've ever had to navigate through.

And that's when I realized how many good people I had around me that care about me so much.

I was able to peel some layers back of what's important and, and, and really, I guess I

had to find myself in that moment really quickly because I was feeling really defeated, really

deflated, but also the biggest lesson I learned throughout that period.

And, you know, the timing of what happened before that World Cup that I couldn't get back in time.

And I'm wondering, I still, to this day, I still wonder why that tackle or why did I move that into

that drill and go into that challenge and, and why did all these things happen?

And you, you navigate in your mind what you could have done different and how

could you have avoided that?

But for some reason that was meant to happen.

And for some reason I'm not meant to be there and letting go of that is really, really difficult.

But why I've been able to open up all these amazing opportunities in my life is because

in that time of hurt, like Chloe and I were really suffering together.

I was still able to find a way to say yes to opportunities that I would never be able

to say yes to.

And, you know, in that moment, a lot of people, when you've got,

pretty much was what the worst news of my life that, that I won't be going, you know,

I wanted to go home, cry, and I did all of that, but I chose not to stay there.

So I had my moment, but then I chose to bounce back and like, what can I do?

How can I still be a part of this game?

Whether it's the commentating side of things, whether it's the other media opportunities

that opened up and all of these things.

And that helped me really build resilience through a time of hurt.

And how can I show my support to these girls who are like family?

To me, I would kill to be out there with them, but how can I show my support

that I'm still with them outside of the pitch?

So, you know, it was, it was a really, it was a really troubling

and also beautiful time in my life all in one.

So hard to explain and so hard to articulate, but it was possibly the worst

and the best time in my life.

Yeah, it makes sense.

And when we talk about like things that you feel like you deserve in a way,

like,

you were one of those players, obviously there were incredible women who came before you.

And I imagine some of those people who are at that Matildas camp when you're in high school,

but you were kind of one of those footballers who,

who played when there wasn't these huge crowds and,

and didn't get paid a lot of money and didn't have these CBAs in place that

brought what there is now for these players.

So I imagine that brought another layer of like,

you go through all the hard stuff and that would have been a beautiful reward

at the end, that home world cup.

Oh, it was, you know, it was a pinch me moment.

I remember I was playing for Bayern Munich at the time when I,

when I found out I was actually,

I had an off day and I was doing some running and I got the notification that

we'd secured the world cup.

And I just remember bawling my eyes out in happiness.

I cannot believe that I have the opportunity to be a part of a home world cup.

And you know, what's happened through this world cup.

It's so hard to put into words, but it into words, but it changed the nation.

Like it, everyone in Australia fell in love with the feet, like the women's football and the Matilda.

Yeah.

And that for me is just so,

so important as a footballer because me and the players before me,

we've all worked for it to get to this point.

And even though like I'm a few years away from retirement,

I'm still putting my mark on to the next generation,

get to enjoy this beautiful game at the highest level.

And I want there to be no ceiling for these young female footballers.

I want them to not have to think about studying or having jobs.

Like I want them to think I can be a professional female footballer and earn a living.

So I'm now trying to transition.

More into like thinking more like a leadership role.

Like I'm now here to serve a bigger purpose and that is make my mark on football and keep it at this high level.

And, you know, during this world cup Chloe and I had a euphoric moment and that's why we started this future baller clinic.

And it was to give back to these young girls who will dream of being Matilda's or dream of making an NPL club or dream of making, you know, the team, just the football team in school.

Like we want to showcase that these girls.

This is what it takes to get to the top.

And this is how hard it is to stay there.

And we want to share, share our experience, share our journey with them and inspire these young girls that if you believe in yourself, you can actually get to anywhere you want to get to.

So, you know, I, I had so much growth and learning and understanding through what that world cup gave to me, even though I wasn't on the pitch.

Yeah.

I wanted to touch on future ballers.

What do you think, what are some things that you want to impart to the younger generation, but even in your role?

As a current player in, in a leadership sense?

Yeah, for me, the biggest thing, it's always about being a good person.

I know, you know, that might sound cliche, but throughout my whole entire career, no matter how much I've excelled or underachieved or overachieved, I've always, I've always kept the same morals.

I've always been the same nurturing person, every single play that's come into the Matilda's, I put my arm around them, any single person that misses out on the camp, I've messaged them.

Like I've been that level all the time.

And so.

And so I want to teach these young girls.

I want to give them a masterclass of like, before you can become a good footballer, you need to become a good person because if I'm a coach, I don't want any people in my team, no matter how talented you are, if you don't have good morals and you're not a good person.

And, and it's just so infectious.

I'll only ever play for a coach if they have, if they have, if they pick their team, according to that.

And it's the reason I've been so successful at Melbourne victory.

Um, Jeff always prides himself on picking a team around the types of people and less around the types.

Of football as they are.

And that's really, really important to me.

And I've transitioned more into that mentality and spreading that awareness to all of these young kids.

And, and that's really what we want to showcase, um, at this future bullet clinic.

Chloe and I are so passionate because not only have we had such an up and down journey, I need these girls and the parents to know the parents, the ones who are sacrificing, you know, driving their kids, believing in their kids, hoping they make it.

But the parents also need to hear that.

Like, it's okay.

If your girls are going.

Through these things like these self-doubt, I don't believe in myself.

I'm not good enough.

Am I ever going to get there?

I want them to know, like, you can get there because we had all those, um, so we had self-doubt there was time that we didn't believe in ourselves.

There was times that we didn't make tournaments.

There was times that we didn't get called into camps.

There was times that we sat on the bench and never got on the field.

Like these are all part of a process and these are all things that you live and learn.

And I want to, I want to share that knowledge with these young girls.

And, and inspire them through, I guess, work rate and, and being a good human being.

So that is really like the pinnacle of what we want this clinic to embody is Chloe.

And I just so passionate, um, about instilling confidence in these young girls, because with this generation, sadly, and unfortunately, like it is tough.

It is really tough.

And a lot of it is here.

It's, it's not about the ability.

A lot of it is honestly here and it's something I've struggled with for a really long time.

And I'm still not a master of it.

My mentality.

Yeah.

It's yeah, there's so many, there's so much in that.

I, I love that.

And I'm just thinking about this in advance.

Like I feel like this episode, like young people need to be listening to what you were saying and getting involved with future ballers.

Like, I think it's such an incredible concept, that idea of it's not always going to be smooth sailing.

We see the public sees these glory moments and the success and the amazing things, but I think it's so, so important to be teaching.

These young people that it's actually okay to have the failures and the hardships along the way too.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean, I'll use Sam Kerr as an example, cause I've played with her for such a long time, but she did her ACL quite a long time ago.

But from that rehab, she became the Sam Kerr that everyone knows.

So from what was such a low point, Sam Kerr's football went like that, and she's had dips here and there because it's impossible to be in goal scoring form all the time.

She's pretty damn good at it.

She's pretty.

She's pretty consistent, but I think everyone just assumes that it's like so easy to stay here and so easy to keep scoring and look now she's, she's done her knee again.

Right.

And now she'll miss an Olympics and she's the captain and I guess the face of our Matildas team.

Um, and you know, it's, it's not, everyone is invincible and people have struggles, but through setbacks and failure, people have dramatic rises if you let it.

So it's about being open to what's possible.

Post injury or post setback, because a lot of people choose to stay in that negative space and, you know, for me, and this is unfair and that sucks.

Um, and Sam, in that example, she became like a world, world-class footballer.

She became the Sam Kerr that everyone knows.

And that was straight after her first ACL injury.

So I think my message to all these young girls that it is setbacks and failures are so important.

If you don't have anywhere, you will never get to where you want to get to.

Yeah.

Couldn't agree more.

And instrumental in my career.

And it's, yeah.

And it's hard to, it's hard in that moment because you're in the heat of the moment and you think you're suffering and it is very difficult, but use them as a stepping stone to you going one level up one further.

Um, it's, it's incredible what you can do once you know the power of that.

How have you found your transition into commentary, punditry roles?

Yeah.

Look, I never thought I would be doing it.

I'm not going to lie.

I'd much rather be lacing up the footy boots and on the pitch crossing, um, setting up goals, scoring goals, you know, I love competition, but you know, that's just what the life had in store for me at that moment.

And to be honest, I loved it.

I really enjoyed it.

Would I give up football for it right now?

No.

Could I see myself transitioning and dabbling in commentary?

Yes.

Because part of me just knows I'll do anything to stay attached to this game because I love football so much.

And, you know, it helps with my knowledge and it helps me express and articulate what I know about the game.

And because I know the players so well, it's so easy to talk about and I'm so passionate about it.

And in, in the world cup, it was important because I wanted to give the Matildas what they deserve from a commentary point of view.

Um, but it's a hard, it's a hard line because you, sometimes, you know, too much and you have to be careful.

And sometimes, you know, you know, you're good friends with those girls.

So it's about finding the line and, and, and giving, giving.

Um, but I'm actually doing a couple of co-commentary gigs for the Australian cup with the, with the men's, um, which is awesome.

So I'm really excited.

I've done one before.

So I'll actually be on the mic for that one instead of a panel.

Um, so yeah, wish me luck for that.

I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Looking forward to that, to, uh, to watching.

You're also a Monash IVF ambassador.

What has that journey been like for you?

To be honest, it's been a whirlwind because.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For the longest time I've been thinking about having kids, um, with Tamika and, you know, obviously I'm really, really blessed.

She's chosen to carry me so I can keep, it's like every footballer was so selfish, right?

Um, I can keep playing at this high level as far as long as I can, because the football windows are so short, right?

You only have a certain amount of time.

Um, so, you know, we've just started looking into that journey and, you know, it's been really eyeopening.

I've, I've, I've cried a lot.

I've been frustrated a lot.

There's so many loopholes to jump through.

Um, but Monash have been so supportive, so direct, um, so informative.

I'm learning so much.

I still don't know it all.

I'm still feel like sometimes I'm so blindsided.

Like, how do I not know all of this?

And there's just so much, um, to go through, but having a company that supports you has been, um, has taken a lot of stress off my back.

Um, so I can just concentrate on football.

Um, but yeah, you know, I'm, I'm transitioning into.

To a different part of my life and I'm, I'm super excited to be doing that, um, with Monash.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think one of the elements is obviously the fertility side of things, but I think even the education side of it as well for athletes, I think for so many female athletes, there hasn't been this access to information.

Like you talked about the fact there's so many things that you didn't know and still don't know, and getting that balance of like understanding, how can I prepare myself?

What do I need to know about like looking at women's health as a whole?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's this huge base, right?

And to be honest, to make it, I've spoken about a lot.

We never imagined sharing our journey publicly ever, but we've had so many friends who have spent, you know, so much money and have spent so many years, like just completely defeated and deflated and just so upset through the, this process.

And we never knew anything about it.

So if I can just share a little bit of an.

Insight and a little bit of an inspiring story and showcase, I guess, not so much the protocol, but the journey, just things that I didn't know.

And if I had listened to somebody's journey, maybe that would alleviate stress for me.

So that's really what the message is.

And that's what we're really hoping to do is even though it's really probably going to be difficult for us to talk about, because there has already been so many blindsiding moments.

So I'm excited and scared to showcase the journey, but I'm really, I'm really happy that we're doing it because there's so many people out there that can benefit from this information.

And that's really what we're trying to do here.

A question that I've been asking athletes on the podcast is what is your favorite failure?

Oh my gosh.

It's an easy one, actually.

And it's hard one all in.

In the quarterfinals of the World Cup, I was second to take the penalty for the penalty shootout.

Sam missed the first one and I missed the second one.

And all I know is I've never missed a penalty in my career.

And throughout our training block and throughout everything, all the high pressure penalties I've ever taken and throughout the whole World Cup training block, I never missed one.

I've never been more confident.

And I missed one in what was the most pivotal, important, crucial.

Time of women's football to progress to the next stage.

And I can't explain to you how I felt in that moment.

But the reason why it was the biggest failure is not only because we didn't progress and the weight I felt on my shoulders and how heartbroken I felt that I had let everyone down.

It was my reaction after is all I wanted to do the next day was get into another high pressure situation and take another penalty.

And most people are petrified of that.

But all.

I wanted to do was take another one just to reassure myself that no, I can do.

I can take penalties at high pressure situations and I can score from the spot and I'm still good enough.

And this isn't my fault.

And things happen and failures happen and and setbacks, setbacks occur.

And I'm not going to lie.

It was a really emotional time for me.

But the next year in that league, I took a couple of penalties and converted them all in.

It was a real.

Breakthrough moment for me.

And so, yeah, that was one of my biggest failures that turned into one of my biggest mindset shifts.

Who has had the biggest impact on you in your career to date?

It's easy.

There's two people.

So I'll talk about my dad first, because he was the crazy, passionate father on the sidelines that wanted the best for me.

And at the time, I didn't like it.

And it was tough.

And, you know, it got to the point where I didn't want him to come to my games anymore.

But I knew that he just he saw greatness in me and he just believed in me so much so that I have a lot of love for my dad in that respect that he did push me.

He was the he was the dad that would, you know, take me to the men's football games on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

And we do toe punts at halftime.

You know, he was a great father growing up and still is now.

But the most influential person is it's it's so easy.

It's my wife, Tamika, been together for nine years now.

And she's the real reason why I believe in myself to this day and why I've never given up even all the hurdles that I've had throughout my career.

She's just she's just given me a type of resilience that I wasn't able to to figure out for myself.

A lot of people don't really know this, but when I when I wasn't really making the Matildas team at the start, she said to me, like, why don't you just open up your job?

That's what you're passionate about.

Like, do what you love.

And I promise you, when you do what you love, like good things will come.

I opened up my gym.

I was playing a league.

I was so happy at the time.

And then all of a sudden I got the call up and I'd been in the Matildas ever since.

And it's just it's just little moments like that.

And, you know, she sacrificed everything in her whole entire career to be with me.

Like, let me take the overseas opportunity.

That meant time apart, you know, nine months apart.

And.

You know, every other every other year that opens up an overseas opportunity, she says, you've got to do it because this is this is what you want to do.

I know it makes you happy and you want to get to where you want to go.

You've got to make these hard decisions and and go overseas and develop.

So, like, let's just go through this long distance thing again.

So she's always just put me first and she's always just reassured belief in myself when times are tough.

And, yeah, she's she's definitely been, you know, the backbone for me throughout my career.

And, you know, she's.

She's still pushing me to this day, even though sometimes I don't want to hear it, but she just, you know, she's she's still going.

She's still there in the background.

And, you know, it makes me a better person and it definitely certainly makes me a better footballer.

I love that.

That's that's really, really special.

Thank you so much for your time today and just for your insights and stories and just some of the things you've learned along the way.

I think there's some really incredible themes in there and I've really, really enjoyed chatting to you.

So thank you so much for your time.

No, it's been awesome.

Hopefully, you know, I've shared some good insight and some some messaging, especially to these younger girls.

But it's been great to have great to be on here.

I've really enjoyed it.

So thanks so much.

Thanks so much for listening.

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