From Playing On The Nutfarm To The Netball Court With Australian Diamond Jo Weston

Australian diamond Jo Weston spent her childhood growing up on her family's nut farm in regional Victoria.

But it was a move to Melbourne where she found her love for the game of netball and never looked back.

It's been 10 years since she first made her debut for the Diamonds,

and in that time she's helped lead them to gold at both the Netball World Cup and Commonwealth Games.

Off the court, Jo was also president of the Australian Netball Players Association

and played a major role in negotiating the new collective bargaining agreement

for a new revenue-sharing model directly benefiting the players.

Welcome back to the Female Athlete Project. Thanks for joining us.

I'm Sophie, the producer here at TFAP, and this week Chloe caught up with Jo in Melbourne

as she gears up for her 12th Super Netball season as a Melbourne Vixen.

Chloe and Jo chat about what it means to be a member of a professional team

and just how important it is to make sure netballers are getting

paid for the value they bring to the game.

They also chat about Jo's new children's book, Netball Besties,

which is set to hit the shelves on April 8th.

But don't worry, you can pre-order it now. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Jo, welcome to the Female Athlete Project.

Chloe, thank you for having me and thank you for colour coordinating our outfits today.

Yeah, we are really, I'm really glad. I should have got your TFAP Summit t-shirt,

but we are on brand right now.

I know, I'll be, I'll be coming, calling for one of those soon.

Yeah, well, we're Melbourne right now.

I should have brought some merch with me. Sorry, that was poorly done.

That's okay. I'll forgive you. Maybe I'll find a green marker and write it on myself.

Yeah, just DIY TFAP Summit. Actually, you need to come. We're going to do a Melbourne

Summit for athletes. You need to come.

I'll be there.

That's shameless promotion, actually, right there, early in the piece.

Okay, can't wait. If you're great, I'll be there.

Super Netball season is here.

I know.

How are you feeling?

The countdown is on.

Yeah.

I'm actually really excited this year. Every year, I mean, this is my

wealth season now, I think. Once you get past double digits, I feel like you're obligated to

stop counting, really. But yeah, last year, we lost in the grand final. So I feel like

coming that close always adds an extra level of motivation. And yeah, I'm really looking forward

to what we can create out on the court this year.

Is there, because I know in AFL, there's kind of, I think in men's footy, there seems to be a real

theme of like, you have to lose one to win one with grand finals. Do you think that applies in

netball? Is there, has there been any trends like that?

A bit of sporting cliche. I feel, I feel like there is that. I mean, when we won previously in

2020, we defeated the West Coast Fever. And then shortly after that, they did win. So I can see

that there would be some sort of learning curve associated with it. But recently I've played in

two losing grand finals. So apparently we didn't lose. We didn't win. We didn't learn from that.

This year, I've got a good feeling.

Yeah, cool. I do know that you don't really want to win the Team Girls Cup,

because that's cursed.

How do you know that?

I don't know. Whichever team has won Team Girls Cup has never won the grand final. Is that what

it is?

That's true. Yeah. So we do believe there's some sort of witchy spell. I mean, I'm not that much

into the woo-woo, although I have been leaning into it a bit more recently. We do think that

if you win the Team Girls Cup, not sure, but the Thunderbirds won it, which we're all kind of happy

about because they've been back-to-back premiers. So we would like to be,

trying to not let them have three in a row.

Yeah, I like that. Okay. Let's go, let's take it all the way back. Tell me about the nut farm.

My family nut farm. Yeah, my dad's family has been up in Alpine, Victoria for many generations.

We're from a little place called Yerobin, which is in between Myrtleford and Bright,

and they're quite big regional townships just at the base of Mount Hotham. So it's beautiful.

It's picturesque up there. You sort of look around and you're,

well, you're like you're in a postcard all the time. So yeah, we have a nut farm,

bit of a hobby farm. We sell walnuts, hazelnuts, and chestnuts. Have you ever had a chestnut before?

I don't know if I have.

They're all right. They're not that popular for a reason, I would say.

She's selling them hard, the chestnuts. I'm not in a rush to try one.

No, no, no. But I mean, nuts are a really great source of lots of good things for you. So

especially walnuts, good grain food, very healthy snack. So, but it's probably not what we're here

to talk about.

Um, yeah, when I spent a bit of time up there in my childhood before I moved to Melbourne and I

still go up there when I have the spare time, I just love it. It feels very, it feels like a

different side of me. And I really appreciate having the best of both worlds because, um,

I probably got the opportunity to come to Melbourne a bit earlier and live in a metropolitan area. So

I didn't have to do the big commute, which for kids that come from country areas, that's always

the biggest challenge. If you're trying to pursue a sporting career or any sort of avenue where you

need to be.

In Melbourne or Sydney or Canberra, you know, any of the big smokes.

Yes. What were you like as a little kid?

I was very loud. I've got two older brothers, so I was constantly trying to chase them around.

I had insanely like white blonde hair. It was like, I was reverse aging. Like I was a, you know,

80 year old coming on five year olds because my hair just looked like it was, you know, luminescent.

Cool.

But I always had lots of energy and I love trying new things. And,

and I was younger, especially I did lots of dance lessons. So I was a bit of

that kid that would be putting their hand up to get involved in any sort of

performance during school. Uh, so I've let that go a little bit now.

And where did you find a love for sport?

Oh, I think I was competitive because when you have older siblings,

you're always trying to keep up with them, especially boys. They're bigger and stronger

by biological nature. So I was always kind of chasing around and wanting to fit in. So I feel

like I was always competitive. I liked, you know, uh, trying new things and trying to be good at

them. It definitely was tennis was probably my first love. My grandma and I played a lot and I

loved, I've been an Australian open fan since we found some, my, we're cleaning out our family

house at the moment. I found all this old memorabilia. Like I was the kid that had the huge

tennis ball that I would tote around all day at the practice court. And then as soon as the game

would finish, I'd be like running down the stairs and holding it over the edge, trying to get some

signatures.

Like I remember I met Serena Williams once and I was just starstruck.

Oh, I'm jealous.

Yes. Um, so tennis was probably my first love of sport and I played it because my grandma did. And

then when I moved schools, I joined the Nepal team kind of as a way to make new friends. Um,

and I just, I loved it. I think going from being more of an, in an individual sport to a team sport

and one that's mainly female based, it just, I really loved it.

Yeah.

And I still love it now, which is, makes me feel incredibly lucky.

Yeah.

And so that move to the big smoke, as you described it, was that for sport reasons?

No, it was really for family reasons and for education. Like my brothers were going into

their later years of school. So it, it made sense. And my mum's family's from Melbourne.

So we have a lot of, uh, community based down here. So it sort of made sense at the time for

us all to come down. And yeah, I feel like a lot of people probably have to sacrifice

for that opportunity. Whereas for us, it sort of naturally happened.

Yeah. Right. How did it go from,

finding netball and trying it to getting to a point where you thought that one day

it might be your career for 12 plus seasons?

It's sort of crazy because I did used to watch netball on the ABC and I would kind of go to the

old Commonwealth bank trophy games in Melbourne. Like my mum would take me along and I think I

must've been maybe 12 or 13 at that age. And then as I sort of became a proper teenager,

I was still playing netball and I had a significant growth.

Which is sort of important in the sphere of netball being over six foot is, um, an advantage.

Yes, it is.

Bringing up the average height in my friendship group. That's for sure.

And I was just playing sort of regular, like sort of state league netball. And I just had a coach

that was really amazing and she really facilitated and sort of, I think, saw a lot of potential in me

and helped harness that because I always probably was very naturally athletic, but I probably wasn't

very skilled.

Mm-hmm.

Which are two very different things. There's only so long that like your athletic ability can

compensate for, you know, not being able to catch and throw probably.

They're important skills, I reckon, in netball.

In most sports, actually.

Yeah.

So it was sort of my later years of high school, I was playing, uh, state representative netball

and I was sort of in this national, uh, talent ID program. And then when I finished year 12,

I got the opportunity to move to the AIS in Canberra.

So I moved to the big smoke in Canberra.

Definitely not.

Um, and once I was there.

It sort of opened up this whole world, which I sort of hadn't been privy to.

I had been really serious about pursuing like academics at school and where I went, um, where I attended in Melbourne.

It was a great school, but it was not that sports based.

Right.

Um, so yeah, it was sort of that, that really kicked it off.

I moved to Canberra and it's sort of, I saw girls, um, whilst I was there moving to the Swifts or moving to the Firebirds.

And I thought maybe that's something that could be on the cards for me.

And now I'm here and I'm still here.

Sorry.

Yeah, you are.

Um, the, I want to talk about that growth spurt and I'm always so curious in sport, kind of that balance between like, like you touched on like the athleticism and skill and then certain factors that give you natural opportunity in a way.

Like, how do you perceive the way that that has balanced out for you when you kind of had that growth spurt?

Were you already going well and then you had your growth spurt and then suddenly you had a point of difference?

Yeah, I think it was the point of difference.

I was probably already really enjoying the sport.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For me, it was pursuing other things alongside netball.

Like I did dance lessons all the way through high school, which probably seems a bit bizarre when you look back at it.

But I do believe that having that sort of feedback when you're looking at yourself in the mirror helped my level of coordination because I am like a little bit like a baby giraffe.

I'm all limbs, no torso.

Everyone always gets surprised when they see me sitting down and then suddenly I stand up and you can see their eyes wide and they go, oh, I didn't see that one coming.

So I feel like it was that plus the height.

Yeah.

In terms of, and it sort of does take time.

You see it all the time, probably in more high profile sports like AFL, you see these really tall young players come in and it really does take time for them to build up, I guess, a level of muscle mass, but then also the coordination and control.

And I do believe like Pilates or even dancing where you get, you look at yourself in the mirror, which is odd, but you get the opportunity to posture correct or course correct.

Yeah.

It's like, cause you get a lot of feedback in sport, right?

From coaches and when you watch video and things like that.

But that's almost like real time feedback all the time.

And it's also independent of an external source.

Yes.

Which is kind of odd when you think about it.

It's like when, and we're probably not meant to be perceived as much as we currently are with all of the cameras and all of the phones, but it really is about kind of impacts, I guess, how you carry yourself in the day to day world too.

So I feel like I'm very lucky.

I also help my footwork, not tripping over my own feet.

I've got, I've got size 10 feet, so they're reasonable size.

Yeah.

Just for my height.

Yeah.

But getting them in the right place at the right time.

That's also a skill.

Are you doing well at it now though?

I think so.

I hope so.

I don't know.

I'll give you feedback.

I'm elite.

I'm elite at network feedback.

Definitely, definitely not.

So you get into the AIS and you're still quite young.

Yeah.

How does it feel walking into a really professional elite?

Well, sorry, I shouldn't say professional, but a really elite environment.

As a young person, how are you as an athlete at that point in time in terms of your mindset?

I think I was just open to all sorts of growth and I probably, it was a bit of a steep learning curve for me.

I think having a lot of feedback, I probably had had a lot of immediate success because I was tall and naturally athletic.

And once you sort of get to a level where all the other people up for selection have the same level, but then they're also incredibly skilled.

For me, it was really trying to expedite that learning.

And I'm very grateful for the time I had.

I had at the AIS because it gives you that opportunity to just train day in, day out, which I really needed because when I was playing here in Victoria, I was sort of, it wasn't that I wasn't taking it that seriously, but I think the quality of the training has progressed dramatically even over the last 10 years.

So that sort of intensive period where we were training pretty much every single day, I was honing those skills, doing them 10,000 hours or whatever it is to try and master.

I feel like that's really helped me now.

And I probably wouldn't be in the position I was, that I am now, if I didn't have that.

And it was also really fun.

You met people from all over Australia, all different sports.

It gave you a really great insight into, you know, what professional swimmers do or what the track and field athletes do.

So it was also just really incredible to see all of that and then go and watch them perform at the Olympics.

It was so, it was so odd.

You'd see someone in the dining hall and then three weeks later, they'd be performing on this huge international stage.

That's very cool.

It was cool.

What is your approach?

What is your approach to taking on feedback?

My approach?

I mean, I'm always been one to listen first.

I think initially when I was younger, I was probably a bit defensive, definitely more ego driven.

I think we all are to a degree, but I think it helps having a sense of confidence.

I feel like you have to find a happy medium where I think if you take on too much feedback, you almost start to question your own ability.

So I've probably come from the headstrong end and have had to have that, I guess, not eroded, but, you know, adjusted slightly to a bit of a middle ground where I can take on feedback, also try and seek it out.

But at the same time, be reassured that I know what my strengths are and I know the value that I bring on and off the court, which I think hopefully makes me a good teammate and a coachable athlete.

But I'm definitely not a suck up to the coaches.

I just like to clarify.

I'm definitely not.

At the Vixens, we have awards night every year and we have the MVP, the most valuable player, and we have a coach's award.

And it's 12 seasons yet and I still haven't won one.

Savage.

Savage.

Are you going to change your course there?

No, I refuse.

I refuse to change who I am for the sake of the coach's award.

I like that.

I'd be insincere.

And also, even if I did that, I probably wouldn't win it.

Yeah, that's so true.

They'd see right through you.

They know me too well.

I've had the same coach the entire time I've been at the Vixens.

And that also was an interesting transition when at the Diamonds we changed coaches because I feel like it's very rare that you go through your entire even work career having the same manager.

So having a different coach come through at a national level, that was a really interesting experience for me as an athlete.

I would like to touch on the Diamonds.

First call up in 2015.

Yeah.

How did it feel being named in the squad for the first time?

It was, I was talking to some of the girls about it the other day and it was almost crazy because I only debuted for the Vixens in 2014 and I barely played.

Like I stepped on the court, I think once, and Bianca Chatfield, who was the captain and one of the best defenders of all time, like she was in the team.

And then the next year she was obviously retiring.

So they sort of phased me in as the next defender to fit her very big shoes.

And I'd been playing in the underage program.

And then suddenly after that.

After the Nepal World Cup in 2015, they just had this mass exodus of defenders.

They had people that were retiring, maybe to have children or they were injured.

So I just, I was a significant age gap, but I almost like, I said, I didn't, I didn't Stephen Bradbury my way into the team.

And Lisa, the coach, like I'm incredibly grateful for her for taking, I guess, a risk on me as a young athlete.

But yeah, I just sort of like got put in because they needed defenders.

And at the time I probably was just in the next.

Next rung down of emerging athletes.

And after that, I did debut in 2015.

Then I think I sat on the bench for like the next two or three years within the diamond squad.

So it was sort of a, a really quick rise to the top.

And then from there it was, you know, trying to, you know, relearn what it means to have success in a team environment.

Because obviously I'm sure you felt this.

And I know rugby and AFL, there's a lot more rotation, but netball is, it's not dissimilar to basketball,

but like a lot of times it's a lot of rotation.

But a lot of the time you might be named in the team and you might not step out on court the entire match,

which is kind of an interesting dichotomy in a situation to be in because, you know,

you really want to contribute.

And the essence of how you do that is really if you're performing in the match versus a training environment.

So yeah, it's a, it's a really interesting cultural environment, I think, to be into.

I, my early career was in basketball in the WNBL and I was full benchwarmer.

For two straight seasons.

And it's, it's brutal.

Like I, when I talk about it now, I often like joke about the fact that I was warming the bench.

And I literally, I would try and like break my own record for how many high fives I could give my teammates per game.

I love that.

The other furnace of human connection, Steve Nash style.

You know that one?

No.

Oh, okay.

Does Steve Nash say that?

The furnace of human connection.

I like it.

No, he was deemed that because.

He was deemed that, of course.

Okay.

Well, cause I was, yeah, I was comparing to Patty Mills.

Oh yes.

Patty Mills was a good tower waver back in the day.

Yeah.

Steve Nash.

Okay.

I like that.

I like that comparison to the furnace.

I know some of my friends, they used to come and they'd come to the Vixens games and they'd come and just watch the warmup because they'd be like, well, Joe's going to be on the court in the warmup.

And then leave.

No, they'd stay for most of the game, but they'd make sure that they were there for the warmup.

Great friends.

Yeah.

They're, they're really good.

I've had so many people that have supported me from when I was like at uni.

Cause when I first started for the Vixens and I came back to Melbourne, I would just play on the weekends and I just went to uni like a regular person.

And now.

I feel like it's kind of a whole different world and it's really nice to be able to bring people, new people in, but then also still share that with the people that have been there the whole time.

Yeah.

I really like that on sticking on that, that sitting on the bench scene.

So you kind of rose to the top and then it probably taught you some serious lessons around patience and humility and how you can still contribute without actually being on the court.

Definitely patience.

I think I'm naturally a really impatient person.

It always kind of surprises people.

When they learn that about me, because I probably give off the air that I'm quite organized and calm and collected, which I am, but it's something I actively have to work towards versus it being a natural, like I'm a very kind of like, I want to do five things right now.

Yes.

You do have the air of being quite calm, but is it not like that in your brain?

Not sometimes it is, but I think for the day to day, and I think it just comes down to being like inherently so competitive.

Yes.

And for me, I've always been someone that sort of.

I think I learned that, you know, like I see my dad working on our farm, like the more you put in, really, the more you get out, obviously it's very, can be subjective to, you know, external events like weather.

And I feel like I've kind of tried to rationalize the same thing when you're in the sporting environment, because sometimes you could be doing all the work and you feel like you're putting yourself in the best place possible.

But I think team sport in particular can be very subjective versus, you know, running a certain time or swimming in a certain event where it's very black and white.

Which as an athlete, you do have to learn to try and tolerate those different shades of gray.

And then also you can see like ours is very position based.

Yes.

And it's, you're less likely to go from attack to defense, like you would potentially be in a footy team.

So, you know, if there's a shooter that might get injured and then, you know, someone I've been sitting on the bench with this whole season, now they're on the court and I'm still sort of sitting here trying to be patient, you know, wait for an opportunity.

And I just think it's a great learning because.

I mean, I'm, I think everyone is a bit leaning more towards instant gratification in our current world.

So I feel like having a growth area or a real life experience, that's the best thing about sport.

It gives you like practical learning experience, like day to day.

Every day you're doing something different.

You can read something and feel like, oh, okay.

Like I'm always in situations where they're, you know, testing my communication skills or my emotional regulations, regulation skills, especially me when it comes to not arguing with the umpires.

I like that you're throwing yourself under the bus there.

I'm here for that.

I try to be self-aware.

I mean, I've made it this far.

It's a good skill.

It's a good skill.

You're sitting on the bench for the Diamonds.

What do you do to get yourself on the court?

Oh, I feel like I had tried to level up parts of my game.

Like I've really honed my ability to be a better attacking player on the court.

Obviously, defense is where I sit naturally and I love it.

It's more fun.

You get to be instinctive, read the play, try and outsmart your opponents.

But my, I had like.

I still remember like one of my like junior coaches always used to say that I was just having a null impact on the court because, because for every intercept I would get, I would just toss the ball straight back to the opponent.

Right.

Okay.

She's like, we need you to have a positive impact on the court.

And I feel like in terms of, you know, looking at statistics and, you know, all that sort of stuff.

So definitely that I tried to work on.

I feel like just becoming, you know, physically stronger, you know, athletically more robust in terms of just having the ability to.

Sustain a work rate over an entire period of netball and international netball.

We don't have timeouts as well.

So you sort of like you're out there running for 15 minutes and there's no real break in play.

So, you know, just trying to back it up quarter after quarter.

And it probably was just opportunity in terms of player turnover.

And then I finally sort of, I was working almost alongside April, who's one of the most beautiful people I've ever met in netball.

And her and I kind of shared the goal defense bib for a lot of, I guess,

the last,

the last major tournaments I played in.

Not the recent ones, but the ones back in like the 2018 con games, like her and I would just kind of play half and half.

And we both really enjoyed that.

It was sort of an odd thing where I think when you get to a level of respect for each other, that sometimes she would start, sometimes I would start.

And if she was playing really well, I was like, oh yeah, she'll stay out there.

It's, it's cool with me.

Like she's having an amazing game.

Like I'm not going to try and go on at halftime and steal her thunder and try and one up her.

And I think we kind of had that.

Natural connection.

And I just felt like that was probably one of the best experiences I had, even though we didn't win those tournaments, but being able to share that and experience it with her and have, I guess that level of camaraderie, which you really, you try and manifest that.

Like you try and get known in a team where you want this shared load.

And sometimes you like teams try and manufacture it by swapping players in and out too much because they want everyone to feel valued and they want everyone to feel a part of it.

But at the same time, you don't just want to be given court time because you.

You know, the coach feels like they have to tick a box.

Why did you feel comfortable with that?

Cause I imagine there'd be a lot of athletes in that situation who might say in order to say the right thing.

Yes.

I was really happy for that person to take my spot, but they wouldn't genuinely mean it.

Like, was it about for you?

Was it about the team success?

Like, how did you feel content with that?

I think it was a team success, but I also just think it was because April is the most beautiful person.

Like she is a competitive base, but off the court, she's almost like.

Quite spiritual.

So her and I are kind of like Adam and Eve.

I feel like if it was me and me together, it definitely probably would be a nightmare, but, um, yeah, I think it was just her, um, her aura.

I don't know.

There was something about her, I feel like, and that we just, and we almost looked like sisters.

Like she also had blonde hair.

I was like, I just, I don't know.

It was, it was really lovely.

I like that.

I like that.

I want to chat about your work with the Australian netball players association.

So you are the.

President.

I am.

Yes, I am.

The president, I have been running unopposed and I don't know if it's because I, you know, I'm running a dictatorship or maybe, maybe I am really passionate about those.

So I feel like everyone sort of feels eventually I will step down probably soon, given that I'm in my 12th year of playing elite level netball, but, um, it's probably where I feel like I can contribute in a leadership capacity off the court, given my, uh, skillset from when I was.

At, um, uni the first time.

And then when I worked in a normal job in inverted commas, a normal job.

Can you, can you touch on the union and job skillsets that have helped you?

Yeah.

So, uh, fresh, when I came back from Canberra, I completed a bachelor of commerce at Melbourne uni.

And then after that, I joined the graduate program at Deloitte in their business advisory service division.

And I worked there for three years, all up it was, and it was four days a week and then slowly, but surely it was more and more part time.

As the, I guess the, they needed us more at trading, like our sport has become more and more professional as I've sort of been a part of it, which has been why I've been so passionate.

I feel like about really trying to advocate for player value and feel like if I have, I've got like a, you know, I've got a pretty inner workings of how small businesses and non-for-profits work from my corporate experience.

I think having that baseline, uh, finance understanding gives you more of an avenue to have conversations, which actually.

Look at the numbers critically and, you know, value where players can fit into that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so how does the Nepal players association work for someone who might have no idea about sport?

We're a little less developed than the AFL, the PA, and probably like the ACA, um, that you see in the paper day to day, but we're trying to get there eventually.

We just have a much smaller base of players.

You know, there's only 80 players that play that are contracted.

Yes.

It's really not a lot, is it?

I think we're up to about.

I think we're up to about.

I think we're up to 540.

It is.

Yeah.

240 clubs.

Yeah.

Crazy.

So in terms of that, it means we probably don't need to be as largely resourced, but it also means that we probably just don't have the financial means because, you know, a lot of the time, uh, player associations are funded by player contributions, but also like, um, assets that come from the broadcast deals or the media rights.

Uh, but the way I think to simplify it is it's sort of like any other union that people might be a part of, whether you're a teacher or a police officer.

So it looks enterprise.

It looks enterprise bargaining agreements.

And for us, it's a collective player agreement.

And that sort of stipulates, you know, the base wage, uh, the minimum standards and sort of like rights.

Every single thing that you can probably imagine is in those contracts.

So whether it's about the amount of events you're meant to do, the amount of training you're meant to do.

And I think especially for sports like AFLW and netball, which kind of sit in that semi-professional realm.

It's a very grey area.

It's a very grey area.

But I think having everything that, uh, contractually operates.

Obligated to do detailed is really important.

Can we go back to 2023 where there was a lot, a lot that was going on and, and you were at the center of a lot of those conversations.

Can you give a brief overview for people who might not have seen all of the media articles and all of this discussion around it?

What was actually going on at that point in time?

Yeah, I think what was probably one of the biggest sticking points is how drawn out a lot of the processes have been.

Obviously.

Netball is a much smaller sport than some of the big players in especially Melbourne sporting landscape.

So that means things just take a little bit longer.

We're less resourced in that regard.

So we'd sort of been going backwards and forwards between our collective bargaining agreement.

You obviously have negotiations, you come to the table with ideally what you'd want, and then you end up compromising on some things.

Um, but we ended up just ended in this like really drawn out period and for us having some sort of.

Play generated revenue was really important, a lot, like pretty much every other sport across Australia has it.

And for that, it's looking at anything that the players contribute to, to whether it's, uh, tickets, merchandise, the broadcast, a percentage of that ends up coming into the total player payment pool.

So it's no different to if you're a CEO or an executive or another business being incentivized to perform well, if I'm going to promote, you know, our netball game on social media and sell more tickets or sell more merchandise.

I think it's only fair that players should receive a portion of their contribution for that.

Um, and unfortunately, like with the executive team, they just were really not budging on that.

Um, which I can understand, you know, like it's always going to be give and take and taking a big step like that sort of opens you up.

To, you know, we're, we're eating into their profit margin, I guess, as a business, if they're having to allow a portion of that to go to the players that are generating that revenue.

Uh, but it was just, we had, you know, a different value.

So.

That in terms of where, um, the executive saw where the players sat and it was really challenging, I feel like, but hopefully in the end we managed to achieve some of what we were looking at.

Obviously we're going to continue to keep pushing, but I hope it just sort of, and it ended up, uh, I ended up crying on national TV, which I probably wouldn't recommend if anyone wanted to tick that one off their bucket list.

Um, sorry, I'm obviously using humor to deflect.

It was a really powerful moment.

Well, I think it just was a testament to how emotional and how, um, fatiguing the whole situation had been.

And I just felt like it was like, I feel like it's different for someone like me that probably has been a bit more perhaps financially buoyant throughout their playing career, or I have other avenues to earn income from.

But I, you know, it was pretty disrespectful for some of these young kids that move into state, like we were just talking about for not a lot of money to then suddenly be like, well, you're just not getting paid because we can't come.

But I, you know, it was pretty disrespectful for some of these young kids that move into state, like we were just talking about for not a lot of money to then suddenly be like, well, you're just not getting paid because we can't come.

But I, you know, it was pretty disrespectful for some of these young kids that move into state, like we were just talking about for not a lot of money to then suddenly be like, well, you're just not getting paid because we can't come.

And like the thing we were really like stuck on was how much value the players were bringing to the game.

And for me, it just felt like it was like very aligned with how I feel about my values.

You know how they're saying like work V reward earlier.

Like that's just something I feel like I've just had instilled in me from when I was younger.

And the reward doesn't necessarily have to be as large or what you think it might've been.

But in terms of how much we were contributing to the game, it was really also setting us up going forward.

Because if you look at all other, like it's a competitive landscape for female athletes in Australia at the moment.

So, you know, whether it's AFL or rugby or cricket or soccer, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of choice out there now.

And I think if NEPA wants to remain the favourable choice in team sports, it's not just about being the sport that you love, but it's about having working conditions, which are like,

that benefit athletes because other people will look at the sport and they'll say, well, if I go and play AFL, I can get, you know, X, Y, and Z because they've got, you know, they value the players in that way and they see their contribution to the game.

So it was sort of multi-factor as to why it was so important.

And I'm really hopeful that it can continue to push our sport forward.

That's all we really want.

And no one wants to see infighting on the media.

It's not a good look for anyone or for players, you know.

And everyone loves to look at athletes.

And they think they're, which we do, we've got a pretty good, but they're like, oh, they're always complaining about this or whinging about that.

And I think it's just because if you're an athlete, you're, I guess you're in this place where it's a position where lots of people want to be.

So you feel like if you get there, you kind of almost can't complain because, you know, everyone wants to be there.

So it must be amazing, which it is.

It's a really tricky balance because it is, it's, it's an amazing life being a professional athlete.

Right.

But I think sometimes this,

the view that people have of, of it being this amazing life is probably a reflection of looking at a men's average salary in some of those leagues, right?

Like it's not an amazing life.

We were chatting off air that the tier four salary for AFLW is maybe around 60 grand, which for sport is like, oh, okay.

That's not too bad to get 60 grand to play footy.

But if that, that is your job and that's meant to pay your rent and your groceries and all of those things, it doesn't go a long way.

No, I feel like that could be,

especially in the major cities and in a country like Australia.

So, and I know people are having those discussions in whatever line of work they work in.

I don't think it's an uncommon discussion, but for us, I feel like being in a public facing role, it always feels, but I try and put that aside because like we were talking about before, like, I feel like I know the value I can bring.

And it's not that I'm trying to be cocky or arrogant.

I feel like you have to be confident and self-assured because otherwise you just get walked all over.

And they, and the thing with like sport is if you don't want to do it, they'll just grab the next player that comes in and then they'll do it for free and then, oh, okay, well now they finally want to be paid.

Okay.

Well, you move on and this player will do it for free.

And I just don't think that's the way it should really operate.

I don't think it's sustainable also in terms of having like the quality of athletes you want, obviously you're going to go for your first choice.

And then if you're working your way down, like, I feel like the calibre of the athlete slowly diminishes.

Um, but it's also just like not a nice environment to be in that you feel like.

Yeah.

You're sort of a bit worthless.

So we just want to make sure that if we're not going backwards, you know, if I'm playing sport, um, and we're in a semi-professional professional role, you get paid for that.

It's no different to any other job.

Netball has such huge participation rates across the country.

How do you see that mismatch in a way of, of what you've had to fight for as a player to a sport that's so hugely popular?

Yeah, it is.

It's odd, but I guess most people would probably realise that the big paychecks for sport come from either the broadcast or media rights or sponsorship.

So although participation is really important, I think in having that community aspect, which is something I really love about netball for me, it's always really been about enjoyment, fulfilment and connection.

And that's why I just love being involved in the game so much.

But yeah, translating that to sort of, um, bigger, I guess, uh, media dollars, which might.

You know, increased salaries has always been a challenge we're faced.

And I think there's some sort of, I guess, gender element to it.

Like if you look at who would traditionally have watched sport on TV over the last few generations, it technically just has been men.

And because men's netball is, it's becoming more popular now, but it never really was the sport of choice.

So if you're looking at who's watching TV or the stereotypical viewer, historically that's been men.

But I feel like it's changing even, you know, I'm a big Formula One fan.

Yes.

Um, and the female like viewership of that has just increased like exponentially.

So for us, we're almost having to do two, uh, two battles at once.

You know, we're trying to convert women into being sports viewers, which is sort of, I think really had a big improvement, but it's a generational shift.

It doesn't sort of just happen really overnight.

And then for us, it's really trying to get more men and boys involved in the game too.

It's a very nice segue because I wanted to ask you about Brisbane 2032.

Is that, is that the primary goal that it, it is, is it the gender equity piece?

I'm probably not really across that as much as I probably was in the last couple of years.

I feel like as an athlete, it would be incredible to play at the Olympics.

I know you've got to experience that.

And it was, you know, I can imagine it was just dream come true, right?

Oh my goodness.

The biggest dream of my life.

So surreal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I mean, I would love to play.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would love to see netball there.

I mean, we do probably lack a bit of a global element too.

If you think about the big players in the international IOC stage as well, Russia, China, America, South America.

The US is a big one, isn't it?

Huge population density, even India, which is a Commonwealth nation, which is obviously like why hockey and those sports are so popular because they have that pool across that.

And like, that's my assumption about why cricket's being included as well, because they just have this huge pool on the Indian market.

Which is just insane.

And it's just a lot of eyeballs, isn't it?

A lot of eyeballs and a lot of dollar figures that are associated with that.

Like you can't, you can't really argue with that.

So as an athlete, I would have loved it, but it was never, because I played tennis and then I played netball for so long.

For me, it was never something that was something I desperately wanted to do.

Yeah.

Because it didn't almost seem like a realistic thing that would happen in your lifetime probably.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

It's not going to happen, so it's fine.

Okay.

She's come to terms with it.

If you think I'm going to be still playing in 2032, you're going to be.

You're going to be crazy, Chloe.

Well, I don't know.

Yeah, I kind of forgot to do the maths there.

I mean, I'll take my, if we're both still around in 2032 in our athletic careers, I'll be impressed with both of us.

I think you'll still be kicking.

Oh, gosh.

Maybe coach Chloe.

Coach Chloe.

Maybe.

Oh, I like that.

I can see that.

Okay.

So you've brought your new book with you.

It's sitting on the bookshelf behind you.

I thought this was a book club, but apparently it wasn't.

I want you to give a 60 second elevator pitch of your new book.

Because I want you to be, this platform is all about spotlighting female athletes and commercial opportunities.

So I want you to take this.

You said you're not great at selling yourself with this book.

So this is it.

You got to go.

60 seconds.

Give us your best sell of your new book.

This is my new book in my series called Netball Besties.

The first book is called The Mystery of the Missing Billie.

And this is my dog, Billie.

She's an Australian shepherd and she's in the book.

She's a star, actually.

She's named after Billie.

This is a segue.

Sorry.

This is why I'm not so bad.

She's named after Billie Jean King, the tennis player.

That's iconic.

I did not know that.

I'll just read you the blurb so it's a bit easier.

But here we go.

When a new family moves into the property next to the Western farm,

Jo and her beloved dog, Billie, have a new best friend and netball buddy, Ava.

But strange things are happening in Talma Valley.

Farm gates are left open.

Jo's escape artist cow, Moudini, is on the loose.

Mountain bikers are going missing.

And then Billie disappears.

Jo and Ava will have to use all their wealth.

And all their wits to solve the mysteries.

Here you go.

Well done.

And that's it.

It's coming out April 8th.

But you can pre-order it from any time going forward.

And I'm really excited about it.

And that's it.

I love it.

The book, obviously it's pink.

But yeah, it's been really exciting.

I've been doing a little bit of PR, which feels a bit unnatural to me.

Obviously, I love talking.

It feels a bit odd trying to be a bit of a salesperson.

But this copy is for you, Chloe.

Oh, yay.

Thanks.

Actually, it's for like ages about 6 to 12.

So I hope it's okay for your reading ability.

I'll take it.

I'll take it.

I'll leave it here for you.

The font size is quite nice, actually.

I did have a look through before.

I quite like the font size.

But it's available online and all good bookstores.

And I'm doing a couple of events mainly around Melbourne.

So if people want to come along, they can meet me.

I'm going to see if I can bring Billie as well.

Depends if they're like dog friendly, you know.

Oh, I would love to meet Billie.

Yeah.

She's really cute.

Great breed of dog.

Great name.

Inspiration.

I love that.

That's very, very cool.

Bring it back to, well, not that the book is not serious.

The sales pitch is over now.

Congratulations on the book.

It's a huge achievement, right?

I've loved it.

It's been such a fun avenue to be creative.

And it's loosely inspired, you know, by my own life up on our nut farm.

So having those elements of it make it really special.

And hopefully when I have kids one day, I can show the book to them.

And obviously, Billie is now immortalised.

Because the worst thing about pets is they're only around for a small portion of your life.

So now my beautiful dog, Billie, will be around forever.

That's really special.

I ask every athlete who comes on the podcast,

what would you describe as your favourite failure?

Ooh.

Favourite failure.

Does it have to be in a sporting arena?

Most likely.

It can be wherever.

I can ask you another question if you'd like some time to think.

No, I think for me,

back in 2018 when we lost the Commonwealth Games

and then the following year when we lost the Netball World Cup,

they're the two major tournaments if you're in the international netball sphere.

And we lost both of those games by one goal.

And I think, obviously, all of us were pretty devastated by that.

And there's a lot of expectation on you.

And it probably taught me, like that was a failure, I guess.

But the reason why it's one of my favourite experiences

is it's kind of, I guess, bifold.

Like, number one, for me, it was about trying to still savour that experience

and the journey we went on without having sort of the final success at the end of it.

Like trying to separate the bitterness I probably felt from losing

and not letting that kind of overarchingly impact the rest of my memories.

Because it was like those two years were some of the best times I had

playing for the Diamonds.

But then they were also my favourite failures,

because the following Commonwealth Games and the following World Cup,

we were able to win both of those.

And I feel like having that success, having previously failed at those two events,

just made the win even more special to me.

So probably those two.

I like that.

Lose one to win one.

Yeah, that's true.

Oh, sporting cliche.

Oh, it's back.

We've come full circle.

That was quite beautiful.

God, you didn't even plan that.

I know.

Oh, gosh.

Good podcasting.

I like to say it's lose one to win two,

given we have the Commonwealth Games coming up next year.

But we'll have to wait and see if I'm, you know, still kicking.

2032, we've got a long time to go.

Who has had the biggest impact on you as a person?

Oh, probably my mum, I would say.

She's not a natural athlete in any capacity.

She probably is much more book smart than she is street smart.

But she's just the most beautiful human.

And she sacrificed so much for me and my brothers.

And she's just been so resilient.

So I count my lucky stars every day that she's my mum.

That's really special.

I feel like you started to almost get a bit emotional talking about her.

I did get emotional talking about her.

Yeah.

She's in the book, though, if you guys want to read about it.

No, I'm just kidding.

That's a good plug.

That's a good plug.

No, she's just such a beautiful human.

And she's never been, she's just one of the best to me,

rather than feeling like it sort of had to be, you know, a bit pushy.

I feel like sometimes it's a very hard line to walk as an athlete

when she probably didn't really understand why I was so passionate about it.

But she's taken the time to learn why it's so important to me.

And I think she also feels like that real sense of community we have

around the Melbourne Vixens with all our family and friends,

which is also once you're in a sports team,

it's really special to kind of feel like you're in that inner sanctum.

And she probably, I guess, just didn't have that

because she never really played sport when she was growing up.

Yeah, I love that.

That's really special.

I think we'll end on that.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Jo, for your time today.

It was really cool to sit down and have the chance to chat to you.

I've seen you at multiple things and we've kept saying that we needed to line it up.

So I'm so excited.

We've lined it up.

You've done it on game day.

Yeah, I'm going to Bendigo this evening to play,

which should be quite fun, making the commute.

Yes.

Yeah.

So thank you so much for making the time.

I always really admired your work, Chloe.

So I'm happy I got to be in the hot seat with our coordinated outfits.

You can tell the great minds think alike.

Great minds.

Great minds, great athletes.

Thanks so much for listening.

If you got something out of this episode, I would absolutely love it

if you could send it on to one person who you think might enjoy it.

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