As you'll hear in this episode, it was a lost bet with her brother that finally got Shea
playing wheelchair rugby and I think Australia should be very, very thankful for that bet.
In 2019, she became the first and only woman at the time to play in the mixed gender Australian
wheelchair rugby team, the Steelers. She debuted at the Paralympics in Tokyo in 2021 and is on
track to hopefully be on that plane to head over to Paris in 2024. Shea is an incredible
wheelchair rugby player. She's also on board the Athlete Representative Council for World
Wheelchair Rugby. She's trying to create an athlete council there. It was an incredible
chat with Shea. I really, really enjoyed getting to know more about her story, more about her as
a person. I hope you enjoy it. Shea Graham, welcome to the Female Athlete Project.
Thanks. Thanks for having me. Really excited to be here.
I had a chat to you just before we hit record about the fact that Bez and I have loved
supporting you from afar and your name often comes up in our weekly podcast on The Wrap
about what you are achieving with the Steelers. Before we get into where it's at, at the moment,
can you take us back and describe what Shea was like as a little kid?
Um, yeah, of course. Um, so as a little kid, I think I was, uh, shy, which, um,
I think would shock a lot of people, um, these days, but, um, pretty shy and not really sure
what she wanted to do. I guess. Um, I grew up in a really sporty household. Dad played, um,
like rugby league, rugby union, AFL, touch football. Um, so I was born in the Northern
territory, huge sporty, like community up there. Um, and then when we moved to Queensland,
grew up like around the rugby league fields, um, in the touch footy fields. So, um, but I,
I wasn't really sure what I guess my niche sport was going to be. I tried, um, dancing and it
wasn't for me. And then I went into soccer when I was like 11 years old. Um, and yeah, loved,
loved soccer. Um, again, it was kind of male dominated sport at the time. Um, and went into
I was only female, but, um, yeah, I loved, I loved soccer growing up and then branched off into,
um, a bit of touch football, um, did play rugby union for a little bit. And then, um,
also did a lot of like athletics, short distance running, sprinting, um, that sort of thing. So,
um, when I discovered my sport, I then branched out and I was just a sporty kid,
um, which my parents probably hated.
They were running around everywhere after me, but, um, yeah, I think sport was definitely
what like gave me that confidence and built that confidence over time. Um, and broke me out of my
shy little shell.
And when you, you said you were born in the NT and moved to Queensland, was Aussie rules
on the radar? It's obviously such a big sport up there. Was it as soon as you're in Queensland,
it was all rugby league?
Yeah. Um, like I was only still really young when we left the Northern territory. I was like five
turning six, but, um,
like it's seasonal sport up there. So it's like either rugby league, it's AFL, it's cricket. Like
it's all just like constantly in motion. Um, and I guess like dad, he was born in New South Wales.
So like rugby league was a huge thing, but he also like was into AFL as well. So I grew up having
both sports in the household, which was amazing. Um, but yes,
rugby league, very dominant up in Queensland.
And I can see behind you on your wall, you've got some pretty cool jerseys hanging behind you.
Um, what was your first exposure to wheelchair rugby? Like, and where did that come from?
Oh, I have such a ridiculous story when it comes to wheelchair rugby. So, um,
I was a backseat passenger in a car crash when I was 18 years old and like having been,
such a sporty, like kid and teenager, um, you know, sport had become such a big part of my
identity. And I kind of felt like I'd lost that when I lost the ability to walk. Um, and like
wanting to take some sort of control back of my life and I guess like not wanting to lose anything
else. I made a stupid decision while I was still in hospital to retire from like all sport. Um,
stuck to that for like nine years, but I was actually introduced to wheelchair rugby
when I was in rehab, like in the spinal unit. Um, at the time the documentary murder ball was
like making the rounds. And, um, I was the youngest, like on the ward, but also one of
the only females on the ward as well. So we came out of the little cinema thing that it was being
shown in and all the guys were like, yes, I can't wait to give wheelchair rugby a go.
And I said, I'm not, I'll never play that sport. I don't want to play a sport where it looks like
everyone's just trying to kill each other. Um, yeah. And then nine years later with lots of
like along the way, I had lots of people trying to get me involved, but, um, it took a bet with
my brother, um, for me to get involved with wheelchair rugby. So yeah. Um, it was about
nine years later and we were in Amsterdam, um, and lost a little bet.
And when I came back to Australia, I got online, found out where I could go, give it a go and hopped
in my first chair and that's it. And so the bet was that if you, so if you'd lost the bet, you had
to try the sport. Is that what it was? Yeah. I had to give wheelchair rugby a go. Um, so yeah,
lost a bet and you know, lose a bet. You got to pay up. So off I went, found a wheelchair rugby
chair and a bunch of guys and hopped in a chair and gave it a go.
So that's cool. What was it like turning up to try your first ever time?
Oh, I was scared because it is from the outside of very intimidating sport. Um,
I was scared, but the guys are so lovely. And especially like in that sort of environment
where it's like a Wednesday night muck around where everyone just gets together. There's no
refs. The rules are, there aren't really any rules. Um, it's just like a really nice environment to
try and learn in. And you know, you hop in a chair and everyone's like super supportive and
like helping you out and showing you the ropes. Um, and it was just really fun. And, um, I think
like in that moment, I realized what my stubbornness had been making me miss out on for
those nine years. Like the community of sport is like one of my favorite things about it. So
as soon as I was like back around a team and they were just like trying to build me up,
and like, get me like to be a good player, you know, like so welcoming and lovely.
I was just like, yeah, this is it. I'm back. Like sport is back.
That's awesome. I think that's the coolest thing about sport, right? That community. What do you
think it was? Like, what do you think the biggest thing that was in you that was pushing back when
people were trying to pressure you to get involved in those early years?
Yeah. Ultimately like having many, many years to look back at that now, I think it was the fact
like, obviously I was this independent, like 18 year old able-bodied girl who had like her whole
life planned out ahead of her and was like keen for all these like big adventures, um, that involved
walking. Um, and then I, um, you know, had that all taken away from me in like literally the blink
of an eye. And it was like such a big thing to lose. Um, and then I, um, you know, I had to
lose and it was so hard to deal with that, that like, I think in my head, I never thought like
wheelchair sport was going to be the same. So I thought like I'd be going in and playing something
and it just wouldn't feel like it used to. So, um, I guess, yeah, I didn't want to find out.
I didn't want to test and find out if I'd lost, like if I was going to lose sport. So I guess I
just made the decision.
Um, to not get involved with it so that I didn't lose something else. Um, that is a very messy
answer, but that's my head. It's your, it's your story. It's your answer, right? Yeah. It's so
cool though, to hear the way that you felt really embraced in that community. How long did it take
to learn? I worked as a physio, um, in the acute spinal wards and that process of people having
to learn how to use a wheelchair who haven't used it before. You've got to learn to use that
functionally, but then what's the process like actually becoming an elite athlete,
using your wheelchair? Um, yeah, it's a long road. Uh, I think there's still things like
to this day, I've been playing like wheelchair rugby now, like for fun and as part of the
Australian team for fun, like I was five years and then into the Australian team nearly for five
years as well. So 10 years of playing wheelchair rugby, and there's still things that I'm learning
about, like how to use the chair or, um, positioning and things. So yeah, I don't think there's a day
that goes by that there's not something new to learn in my sport, which makes it super exciting.
Can you break down the sport that they call murder ball for us, for people who might not
have watched it or may have seen it, but don't understand it? Yeah. So wheelchair rugby is this
super fast paced, highly strategic, mixed gender, um, full contact sport, um, that people with,
quad disabilities, I guess you'd say. So you need to have at least four of your limbs affected to be,
um, classifiable. Um, yeah, it's kind of like dodging cars, but highly strategic and really
fun and, um, really competitive. It just draws you in and keeps you there. It's such a fun sport.
Um, yeah, I don't think I've done very well at explaining it, but anyway, there's four players
on, um, like four players per team.
On the court at one time of those players, um, your classifications need to add up to eight
points. If you've got a female on the court, you get an extra 0.5 for each female. Um, and then,
um, you've got 40 seconds to score. Um, in that 40 seconds, you have to have advanced it into
your attacking half in 12 seconds, and then you have to either bounce or pass the ball every 10
seconds. So super fast. And then the strategy,
really comes in when you're like matching your lineup against, um, other teams, lineups and
stuff. Um, yeah. And then, yeah, super fun. Um, it's eight, eight minute, um, running, uh,
stop clock, um, quarters. So the game can go from anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half,
and we never end on a draw. So the game can continue on into overtime, which can be thrilling
and really nerve wracking. Yeah, absolutely. What did your pathway look like going from
trying it after losing your bet to getting to represent your country on the international
stage in 2019? I think it was, you made your debut. Yeah, I did. Yeah. Um, I guess
the pathways changed a lot now. Um, but when I first started, um, it, so I started, I got in
um, so not long till the Rio, um, games and I instantly fell in love with like the challenge
of the sport and kind of set myself a ridiculous goal to get Rio ready, not understanding what
that meant, what it was going to take or what was like expected of like us wheelchair rugby
athletes at a high performance level. Um, and I still didn't even know the rules yet. So, um,
I kind of like set myself this goal. I wanted to play for Australia. Um, and then yeah,
over the next, I guess, like four ish years, I worked at that. So, um, started off on Wednesday
nights, obviously like at the muck round comp, like, um, just playing with the guys, learning
the rules. Um, and then, you know, like they start off really kind and only hit you really
like softly. And as you start to like pick up,
the rules and start to get more competitive, the hits get harder and the game gets faster and it
gets more exciting and more challenging. So, um, yeah, they were pushing me. And then from there,
we're super lucky in Victoria to have, um, a really like big pool of players. So we have a
local comp, um, where we have relationship with four, um, rugby league, uh, rugby union clubs
here in Victoria. And, um, I got invited down to,
to be on a team there, which I guess was like the next step in my development as a player.
Um, and then from there, um, I got invited to be on, um, like a development team for
national champs, um, which used to be three rounds instead of, um, just the one, uh,
like major comp that it is now. And, um, so I went there, um, and then from there,
I just kept working my way up. Eventually I got on the national champion,
championship team. Um, and I just kept like trying to learn as much as I could and push
myself against like all the players, um, to try and kind of say to the coaches, like, I'm here,
like pick me, let me be on your team. Um, so it wasn't, I think in 2018, I was pretty excited.
I'd like finished my master's degree and I was like, yes, I can commit heaps of time to this.
and I went off to Mexico and I came back and got pretty sick, um, and ended up like wiped
out for three months. And I thought, damn, like, this is my chance gone. Um, but I was pretty
lucky in that I came back and just got my spot back on the national champs team. Um, and it was
after that national champs round in 2018, um, that Jace Lees, who's now, um, the assistant coach of
the Steelers asked me, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,
um, how far I kind of wanted to go with the sport. And I was like, look, I want to see how far I can
go. Like, this is all just a challenge and I want to push myself. Um, so yeah, if you've got any
tips or anything, let me know. And, um, he spoke to the coaches about getting me, um, cause he was
a player for the Steelers at the time to come down and, um, help out at a training session on
a Friday. So they were prepping for a tournament. I was just coming down as an,
extra player to help out. And then from there quite quickly, it became like helping out on a
Friday to helping out on a Wednesday to like them trying to get me to help out on a Monday.
Um, which was a bit hard to do while I was still juggling work. But, um, yeah, I got invited to,
uh, um, Steelers camp at the start of 2019. And not long after that got my spot on the team
and yeah, haven't looked back. Oh, it's so cool. And can you
touch on the fact that it is a mixed gender sport? It's really cool. I think when we get
to follow along on, on how well you guys often perform as a team and highlighting you and Ella
and the work that you do in that space, what is it, what is it like playing a sport that was
traditionally a men's only team? Yeah. I mean, I feel like initially that was like one of the
biggest and like, don't get me wrong. B-Dub is amazing. And like a leader in, um, you know,
diversifying the team.
And bringing in like women, um, Australia's always kind of, well, it is leading the way
in that space. Um, but I think like initially I was coming up against this like barrier,
um, having met, hadn't been like a woman on the team before. And I feel like that's kind of what
I was trying to prove that like, I'm just as strong. I'm just as fast. I'm just as strategic
as the guys initially. And like, I don't know if that's like,
like something that I just felt and it wasn't actually a thing, but, um, yeah, like made the
team. And for the first little while I was the only female first and only female to represent
Australia. Um, and you know, I fit in with the guys. It's an easy sport. It's such a great
community. And then not long after that, we were bringing like, there's, there's a lot of females
that play nationally here in Australia.
Um, but not long after that, we were starting to bring in other players and we stole Ella from
wheelchair basketball and yeah, it's so great to have her on the team. We've got
Em, um, and Robin too, Robin from, um, wheelchair athletics. Um, so yeah, there's like a crew of us
now and it's like, it just gives our team and like here, not just like the Steelers, but like the
national teams and stuff so much more depth. Um, and it's, yeah, it's only good for the team to
bring in more females, I think. And you touched on that wanting to prove yourself as a female. I
think like when I'm playing Aussie rules, when I play AFLW, I almost feel like I'm trying to prove
my value as a female athlete, even though we don't play against the men. But I imagine that's quite
a unique experience for you guys because you have to prove yourselves while doing it actually
against the men in a way. Yeah.
Yeah. It's great. It's so fun to beat them.
Um, it's like, yeah, I don't know. It's one of my favorite things about the sport is that
it is a mixed gender sport and you do like, you go up against these battles against
like men who are genetically like made to be stronger and faster and you have to either
beat them at that or be smarter. And it's,
it's so fun to like have those little internal battles. I mean, I don't think they're having
them. They just want to beat me, but it's so good when you beat the boys. It's so fun.
I love that. That's really cool. What was it like being named in your first
Paralympic team that was going to head on the, get on the plane to head over to Tokyo?
Um, yeah, so it was super exciting because, um, they'd kind of named the team or kind of let us
know before the whole COVID world shutting down.
So, um, obviously super excited. The family was all cousins, friends were all like getting ready
to buy tickets and get accommodation and stuff in Tokyo. And, um, yeah, super exciting. Like to know
that, um, you know, not only had I made the Australian team, but I was going to represent
Australia at a Paralympic games too. And then, yeah, the world shut down and it went from like
being super, super excited.
About potentially achieving like a childhood dream. And then, um, you know, the world falling
over and not knowing if you're going to get there, which was tough. Um, but yeah, when they made the
announcement that it was just going to be postponed for that year, like that, that was amazing. Like
that. Yeah. Cause in my head I was like, Oh, I don't, if this isn't happening, I don't know if
I can hold on for like another four years. I don't know. Um,
but yeah, it, it exciting to be named on the first one. Very different, obviously to head to Tokyo
with no crowds and, you know, um, kind of be in lockdown in another country because you're
told that the Paralympics are going to be the biggest competition that you've ever been to
in your whole life. And, you know, you turn up and look up in these giant stadiums and there's
like three or four people like sitting a hundred meters apart.
Yeah. How did it feel being part of a team that has such a rich history from a high performance
perspective? So the Steelers were going in defending champs, I think had won the two
previous Paralympic gold medals. How did it feel to be a part of a team that was so elite?
Yeah. Um, but I honestly felt nothing but privileged and still do to be part of the Steelers.
Um, like I said, even,
like though it was like a local comp thing and like everyone was like, it was such a good
community. It's the same thing with the Steelers. Like everyone has this, like want to build each
other up and make everyone like the best player they possibly can be. And I don't think I've ever
been a part of a team like that before. Um, so, you know, like going in, you know, like
it was my first Paralympics and I was freaking,
but I was with these guys that had been on the team and been to like two Paralympic games and
they're there like supporting you and backing you up. And you've got like two of the best
players in the world, like on your team. And, um, yeah, I don't know. It's, there's something
magic about being on the Steelers team and, um, they just bring you in. You're not new.
You're not other, like you're a Steeler. Like you, you're involved in that legacy
and you keep working towards that legacy of like being great and winning.
Yeah. That's awesome. It went a little bit differently to what the team had probably
planned coming up against host nation, host nation, Japan in that bronze medal match,
unfortunately went down to Japan. What was the feeling like amongst the group?
Yeah. Um, it was heartbreaking. So there was this running joke within Paralympics, Australia,
that as soon as the Steelers,
would, um, like set a date for a team camp, that there'd be a border closure. And every time that
was, um, so we like hadn't trained together as a full squad for over 18 months. We met together
for the first time, like three days before our first game and like had a training session.
So like, yeah, being like, like being in a team, you can't not train together. It's very hard. So,
we went into that comp very underprepared. Um, and it was messy. And if anyone watched those
games, they could see that. Um, and it wasn't our usual style of playing, but we hadn't had a
chance to play together. Um, and like under the circumstances, we did so well to get to the bronze
medal match because all of those teams there had been training together for ages. Um, so,
yeah, it was heartbreaking. And I felt like at the end of that game, when there was like such
raw emotion, like with and around the guys, uh, like my heart broke. Um, and not just for me,
but for them as well. But yeah, you know, reset, got back into it and turn things around.
What does it look like for you guys? Um, once you've come home from Tokyo, what is a
typical year in training look like in terms of,
working full-time training camps? Can you give us a brief view on that?
Yeah. So I kind of wheelchair rugby would be my full-time role and I work around rugby. Um, so
we train five days a week. Oh, well actually we train six days a week. We have, um, so we have
a court session Monday, Wednesday, and Friday normally goes for a couple of hours, including
recovery. Um, and that normally fast here in Victoria, it's like 8.30 till 11, 11.30. Um,
and then Tuesdays and Thursdays are gym days. So I'm in at the VIS. Um, I will often like,
I take my little backpack with my work clothes, get ready and changed. And then I run off, um,
to the Melbourne museum and work at the library, um, in the Melbourne museum there. So
Tuesdays and Thursdays are my main work day. Um, and then,
and then Saturday we have like an at-home session, um, which is normally just like, um,
yeah, just like a strength-based or, um, fitness-based kind of drill thing that we've
got to do. Um, and then I also like work, um, sometimes on the weekends at a public library
as well. So, um, that's like a normal week. And then competition wise, it's like, we don't really
have an off season. So, um, normally, um, I work at a public library, um, and then I work at a
We'll compete in like three to four international competitions a year. Um, there's normally like
one kind of at the start of the year around January, February sort of time. Um, and then
we'll lead into normally like qualifying tournament or, um, like some other sort of
like tournament, depending on what year it is, we kind of run in two year cycles. Um,
yeah. So two to three international competitions, then we have national league,
there's three rounds of that per year here in, um, Australia. And then we have national champs.
So we're kind of constantly going all the time. Um, normally have like three to four weeks off
over Christmas and maybe like a week in the middle of the year. Otherwise we pretty much train
all the way through. Um, so yeah, it's full, full-time gig with not much rest.
Yeah. It sounds like all systems go. I'm keen to get into that a little bit further,
but I want to hear about your work in the libraries. Is that a real passion for yours
of yours? I should say. Oh, like I think I've always, I'm, I've always been a little like
bookworm. Um, and I wanted to work in libraries, but what my dream at high school was to own my
own bookstore. So I've kind of done that, but the bookstore is not mine. And, um, it's just
a much bigger, very large. Yeah. It's very large. Um,
so yeah, I kind of, I, I did a whole 360, I guess in my, um, yeah, career like space.
I originally was working in marketing and public relations and decided that I didn't want to do
that. Um, and came back, did my master's in information management and, um, just fallen
into library work. So, um, recently, uh, probably like a year and a half,
now I've been working at the Melbourne museum in the library and archives team. And, um, yeah,
it's like the best job I've ever had in my whole life. And it's amazing. I've got this like
beautiful rare book collection that I get to work with. And, um, it's an institution that's like
dedicated to collecting, um, which like most libraries, obviously they collect, but they also
weed their collections as well. So, yeah, I don't know. I really love working in and amongst
history and, um, yeah, there's something new every day, which is super exciting. And it's
the polar opposite to wheelchair rugby. Yeah. That's awesome. That's really cool.
What are some of the biggest barriers you faced as an athlete competing in a para sport?
Um, I guess like I, for me, like one of the biggest barriers has been finding work that's like
flexible and supportive of like what I do. Um,
mainly just because I think like, sometimes people don't recognize that, um, what we do
is like a real and continuous thing. Like I think they think we compete once every four years and
then go away again, but we train and play like all the time. It's a constant. Um, so yeah, I think
a lot of work places that I've been in kind of thought it was like this fun hobby that I had.
not like a real job. Um, that's one of the biggest barriers, like finding that support from work so
that I can continue to pay my bills. Um, which I think a lot of athletes run into. Um, but then I
guess like outside of that, um, I'm super lucky in that, like, because the Steelers have been
like so strong, um, in the past that like, we have a lot of support and funding from the AIS,
our equipment is so expensive. So like an average rugby chair, um, costs beyond $15,000. Um, so I
think I, in the time I've been playing, um, I had, uh, one donated to me by, um, DSR here in
Victoria, um, that like I could use up until like the point that I didn't want it anymore. And that
has gone on to other developing athletes now as well. Um, and since playing for,
the Steelers, I've been in that team for five years and I've had two different chairs and both
of those cost over $17,000. And then on top of that, you've got like equipment, like, um, we
wear gloves and strapping tape and, um, yeah. So I think equipment would be like the biggest
barrier probably for some people trying to get into, um, like para sport. But again, like such
a cool community. When I first started, one of the guys lent me one of his old chairs that was
all banged up. Um, and so, um, I think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
and, you know, you got to learn in that until you get to a spot where you can afford and buy your
own. We often talk at the female athlete project about small things that people, our audience and
followers can do to support women in sport. Do you think there are things that people can do to
support athletes with a disability, whether that's at the elite level or kind of at the grassroots
level being able to get involved? Um, yeah, for sure. I think like just educating yourself around
like the different sports that exist, um, and following us, like you see us play at the
Paralympic games, like once every four years, we're still playing, like get out there on social media
and like find the team's Instagram or Facebook page, follow it. Um, we have like national champs
and national leagues and local comps, like go out there and watch like these sports are fun
and amazing. Um, even if I didn't play, I think I would watch,
wheelchair rugby all the time because it's just such a great sport. Um, but yeah,
if you can support us in any small way, that means the world to us. Yeah, that's awesome.
We'll make sure we'll, um, include that stuff when we get the episode live as well. I'll put
it in the show notes so people can follow along and on our socials, I'll make sure I tag those
pages too for you and your team so that people can get involved because I think it's such a
practical thing that people can do. You've also got a role, um, you're on the board as an athlete
representative for WorldSport. Um, what are some of the things that you're doing that you're
wheelchair rugby and you're in the process of trying to create the athlete council.
Talk to us about what wearing that hat looks like for you.
Oh, um, it's very new. It's a very new hat. Um, I've never, I guess, like had any interest or
desire, I guess, to be on a board. So, um, it's been interesting being thrown into the deep end
and working out and having an understanding of how, like how sport, um,
runs at a world level. Um, but yeah, it's been interesting, obviously, like, um, I took over
from another athlete, um, Jens, who, uh, plays for Germany, um, and kind of just decided to do
a refresh. I've been really, really keen to try and get, um, more women on the athlete council,
but at the moment I'm trying my hardest just to,
and athlete reps that are keen to just be on the athlete council and be the voice
for us athletes at the world wheelchair rugby board level. So, um, it's been interesting and
it's been hard because it's a Paralympic year. So everyone's super busy and including me,
and we have obviously our, um, yeah, we're set on other things, trying to make teams and qualify
and stuff. So yeah, it's an interesting role. Um,
and I'm excited to see where it goes in the future.
It's a Paralympic year, Paris 2024. How are you feeling? How is the group feeling ahead of the
games? Yeah, I think we're feeling pretty good, obviously. So the team hasn't been finalized yet.
Um, we've got national champs this weekend and then we're off to Canada in June, uh, which is
our last international competition.
Against the top six teams that'll be at the games. Um, so yeah, I think the coaches are
using those tournaments as like, um, kind of like selection, um, yeah, processes, but, um,
yeah, we're feeling good. We've been building since the last Paralympic games. So in Tokyo,
we obviously came away with the fourth and our world ranking dropped. Um, and since then,
we've just been intent on like rebuilding the team. Um, we've worked together to like create
what we want this team to be and what it stands for. Um, reset, like our values and our pillars
within the Steelers and what we stand for. Um, so yeah, it went from like 2021,
like coming forth to world champs in 2022 winning. Um, and then last year, 2023, we won the,
um, world wheelchair rugby cup, which runs at the same time as, um, the rugby union world cup.
Um, so yeah, we've been building and I think we're feeling pretty confident, obviously, like
every team is going to be wanting to beat us. Um, and I think that's fine. We thrive off that. So,
um, feeling pretty confident, um, no matter who they select on the team,
like we're all super strong athletes and we,
we can all get over there and get the job done. So.
Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you so much for your time to share today. Shay,
I've absolutely loved the chance to chat to you, to hear more about your story and what you're
doing. Um, and I cannot wait to support you. I'm, I'm backing you to be on the plane to head over
to Paris. So cannot wait to continue supporting you. Thanks. Thanks so much.
Thanks so much for listening. If you got something out of this episode, I would absolutely love it.
If you could send it on to one person who you think might enjoy it.
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