This episode is brought to you by Victoria Police.
Are you made for more?
Search Police Careers to find out.
This week on the podcast, we've got double trouble.
We've got two incredible basketballers who are real trailblazers in the women's basketball space.
Firstly, Rachel Jarry graced the WNBL for over a decade,
claiming championships with the Bullion Boomers and Southside Flyers.
She was a WNBA champion with the Minnesota Lynx in 2013.
She also represented Australia at the London and Rio Olympics, earning bronze medals.
Amidst a stellar career, she joined Victoria Police Academy in 2019,
and she's still working there currently on secondment to a detective unit.
Deanne Butler is absolutely incredible.
She made history with the first WNBL championship-winning AIS team
and went on to a stellar 13-year WNBL career.
Her impact is undeniable.
She played 251 games and earned life.
She was a member of the WNBL team for over a decade.
She balanced full-time shift work at Victoria Police with a thriving basketball career.
She represented the Opals in 2005 for China Tours and the FIBA World Cup qualifiers.
Post-retirement, she ventured into coaching, achieving success in various leagues,
and even securing a FIBA scout role at the Tokyo Olympics and the Women's World Cup in Sydney.
These two are absolutely incredible athletes and people.
As a former basketballer myself, I loved the chance to sit down and chat with them both.
I hope you enjoy it.
Deanne, Rach, welcome to the Female Athlete Project.
Thanks for having us.
They're in sync already.
We've only just started and they're already in sync.
This is going to be a fun chat.
I'm really, really looking forward to having a chat to you both today.
Both have had similar careers across basketball and now the police,
but very different journeys to get to where you are.
Rach, we might start with you.
Can you tell us a little bit about you as a little kid and how you found a love for basketball?
I guess I was always a tall kid.
So my mum, who played a little bit of basketball, she was younger as well,
decided that basketball would be good for me and got me into it, got me interested.
And yeah, started a whole domestic club when I was in grade five.
I mean, sorry, in prep when I was five or six, just so I could start playing.
So I fondly remember playing under eight.
There was two boys on our team and they would only pass the ball to each other.
So I learnt to play defence from a very young age.
So yeah, just progressed through there into my teenage years
when I started kind of taking it a little bit more seriously.
Can you go more into detail about how your mum started that
so that you could have a chance to play?
Yeah, well, just the area that I lived in, we didn't have like a local domestic club.
So mum just approached my primary school and asked if she could start a club using their name made out of there.
And they said yes.
So we had like the first under eight team.
And I think this year, I think I was invited to the 25 year celebration for that club,
which is now one of the really strongest domestic clubs in the inner west.
So it's pretty special.
And yeah, have your mum like start that for you.
It's pretty, pretty awesome.
That's really cool.
And when was it from there that you kind of worked out that you might have a real crack at basketball?
Yeah, as I got older, I joined Eltona for rep basketball.
A lot of long Friday nights out in the car, out all over Victoria.
And then when I was 14, made my first state team for Vic Metro.
And made state teams from there.
Never lost a game at Nationals.
I hated playing Vic Metro.
I still, I like to say that all the time.
But yeah, everyone hates Vic Metro.
I had a very good team.
I'm not going to lie.
But yeah, we didn't lose a game.
So your whole, your whole career through National Champs, you never lost a game as Vic Metro?
Oh, must be nice.
We had a couple of overtime games or not, but yeah, we never lost.
And yeah, I guess from there I was chosen to go up to the Institute of Sport.
Got a scholarship up there.
Did year 11 and 12 at Lake Gee College, which a lot of girls had gone through there and
And yeah, just progressed from there into WBL and on.
What was it like when you first got into the WNBL?
Yeah, it was, you know, pretty special.
I'd been the development player for Dandenong WNBL.
So I'd been around, I guess, sort of that professional environment and seeing some girls
that I'd grown up watching and loved to see play.
And then going into the Institute of Sport where you're, you know, kind of all bunch
of babies, really.
Trying to, trying to play against women.
And I obviously had a very different experience to Dee, playing against women and pretty much
getting flogged every week.
But we won a couple of games, which we really enjoyed and celebrated hard.
But it was a massive learning experience.
Grateful to play against so many amazing players.
How do you look back on that time in your life when I imagine being at the Tute?
It's pretty all consuming, right?
Because you're kind of picked out as a really good player.
As a really talented basketballer who has potential to play professionally in the game.
But what is it like to be pretty young and to kind of have your life consumed by the
It was really hard because I was a bit of a rebel and I would get grounded every weekend.
So all the silliest things.
And so it was, it was a massive change for me.
Not even sneak out.
Like I would just go out without signing out.
And I understand why under 18s would have to tell people where they are.
But still, I thought it was silly at the time.
But it ended up taking away my weekends, which meant that I spent more time in my room.
But yeah, it was obviously a massive learning experience.
I didn't know anything different from being at home with mum and dad.
So to go and live at the Tute with people your own age.
It is a learning experience.
And yeah, it's consumed by basketball.
But I think, you know, some people can go either way and you can get distracted by,
you know, having so many friends there, other sports, that kind of thing.
Or you can really concentrate on basketball.
I probably had a nice mix of both, I think.
But I definitely learnt a lot, both in life and in basketball.
And yeah, managed to get to the other end and definitely had improved my basketball journey.
And probably came out a better person in the end as well.
Do you think there was a point in your career, kind of as you got older and got more basketball experience,
where you tipped over from being less of a rebel?
Or is it still something that you hold on to these days?
Oh, I think now, like, yeah, I mean, I am a cop now.
So I can't really be a rebel anymore.
I go with the job.
But I think I'd always been a little bit, I don't know.
I've never, I've not always been a rebel, I guess.
Probably just something a bit silly and all that kind of thing.
A little bit blonde.
And I've had my moments over the years.
But no, I think once I got sort of into making Australian teams and, you know,
trying to make those Olympic teams, then that's when I really, I guess, knuckled down and thought,
you know, this is a career I can have without having to grind away nine to five every day.
So I think that's really what changed my mindset.
Dee, we might head across to you before we get into more of Rachel's story.
Can you tell us, your entry into basketball was a little bit different again.
Can you take us back to when you first founded and you as a kid?
Yeah, well, I grew up in country Victoria.
So we didn't like Big Metro at all.
And I must say, we did win a championship.
So we did beat Big Metro.
Just slide that one in there.
Yeah, I grew up, you know, on a farm in country Victoria.
So two and a half hours from Melbourne.
Very small primary school.
No one in my family played basketball, let alone played sports.
So but being in the country, you sort of try to find things to do.
And my prep teacher was actually involved in basketball in Wangretta.
And yeah, and I could see she was, you know, her daughter and a couple others in my primary school
were playing basketball.
But I had to wait till grade three.
So because it was sort of always around and you saw them doing some training every now
and then on the outdoor basketball court at our primary school, it sort of was something
I decided I wanted to be involved in.
So there was no under eights or under tens when I was playing.
So I joined like I think I was eight or grade three.
So we just got flogged by 60, 80 points every game until I got to sort of top eight under
But by that age, yeah, then I and I just loved it.
Like it was just something that, yeah, I just clicked with and really wanted to be better
And then, yeah, I started making rep teams in Wangretta.
So I because I was probably the only point guard.
So I'm very different to Rachel.
I actually was the tallest in my team, but then didn't grow much after that.
And then, yeah, so I sort of played under twelves and under fourteens.
So I was playing sort of rep in both.
So we'd go away to tournaments.
You know, I know my friends would go to the shopping centre or go swim in the pool.
But my mum would take me to a park with my pillow and I'd sleep because I was playing
double the amount of games in the tournament.
So I was sort of a little bit different to some of the other kids.
I'd get pretty tired because I was playing so much, but I just loved it.
So, yeah, a little bit different start than Rach, but sort of a similar pathway through
the state state program made country Vic.
And really quite raw in terms of that.
Coaching didn't get exposed like our courts weren't.
I mean, I thought they were great.
But obviously, once I got to the Australian Institute of Sport, I realised, oh, this is
what a non-sport world should be.
But, you know, very different.
But, you know, like didn't take anything for granted.
You know, I think that's probably a bit of that country upbringing.
A lot of my mum as well.
But, yeah, just, yeah, was lucky and fortunate enough to get a scholarship at the Australian
Institute of Sport.
So very similar to Rach.
Went to Lake Tunadera year 11 and 12.
Two-year scholarship.
So, yeah, the same beginning, I guess, eventually.
We'll chat a bit about your experience at the Institute being slightly different to
But I'm just interested in that point you touched on about not taking things for granted.
I think in women's sport, there's always this really tricky balance, right, where you kind
of like you're so thankful for opportunities and to get access to things.
But then you're often told when you ask for more just to be grateful for what you already
Where do you sit with that now that you've had such an incredible career over so many
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm coaching now, so I see it a very different demographic to when
I was growing up.
Like for me, you know, to travel to anything or to go to a skills camp or a shooting camp
or to a tryout was always a commitment.
You know, and I think I remember I went to a skills camp at Benalla and I didn't know
anything about state.
I didn't even know it was a thing representing your state in basketball.
And the state coach just so, you know, happened to be at this camp and came up to me and said
he wanted me to come to the trials.
But I needed to learn how to do a jump shot.
And I didn't know what a jump shot was.
And my mum and my mum, I got for my birthday Andrew Gay's Basketball the Andrew Gay's Way.
And it was a book that I learned how to like and there was talk about shooting technique
and everything in this book.
And so I read it and then he showed me like said you need to be dribbling up to a bin
and you've got to learn not to fall into the bin.
So it was all about being vertical on your jump shot.
And so I cut up my shins hurting them on this bin.
But I learned how to do a jump shot and I went to the state trials and I made the state team.
But he was really surprised that I'd made it.
So I think there was a bit of that determination instilled.
But I don't think it was anything other than just probably a bit of the upbringing.
But I look now because I didn't have.
I didn't have access to even basketball Victorian qualified coaches.
So, you know, now that they've done such a great job of rolling out coaching clinics
and programs for coaches and development pathways across the state
and have really accessed a lot of those smaller communities, which is really good.
But sort of when I was growing up, that sort of didn't happen.
So I, you know, I had great junior coaches that I'm still in touch with.
But, you know, probably that access to the, you know, the facilities and also
the, I guess, you know, teaching techniques that, you know, we take for granted now.
And I had to do it all myself.
Like now the athletes I'm coaching, a lot of them, you know, they put in work by themselves,
but a lot of them won't work unless the coach is taking them like, you know,
forcing them or expecting them to do individual training.
So it's very different.
So I think that was just instilled early.
And it was just something that I didn't know any different.
Have you ever told Gacy that story?
I mean, I got him.
I had to sign it too.
Yeah, I do need to let him know.
But, yeah, it was pretty cool.
Like I read it hard, this book.
Because I just, yeah, I was really raw when I went to the Australian Institute of Sport.
There was terminology that I didn't know.
You know, and I think, yeah, we talk about AOS experiences, you know,
with Lauren Jackson and Penny Taylor and Susie Bacovic,
and Christa Vierling's coaching the WBL now,
Belinda Snell, like freakish team.
Loz was sponsored by Nike at the time.
So, you know, she was getting all this gear.
And, you know, I was on a Centrelink stay away,
live away from home allowance or something because, you know,
like I just, it was just a really, for me,
it was just a really different experience.
But I was just in my dream being able to live, eat, breathe basketball at the AOS.
When you look back on that level of drive you had that probably is a little bit different
from some of the younger kids that come through today.
What was it that made you want to keep going and be better
and graze your shins on the bin while you're learning a job?
Yeah, I don't know.
I just think because I loved it, you know, and I knew, again, my, you know,
my mum was like a real physical person, like she was always outdoors
and she worked outdoors and really hard worker.
And I think it was just something that my sister and I had sort of grown up with.
But, yeah, it's sort of I've noticed as I've turned into kids,
coaching, it frustrates me somewhat.
So I'm really self-aware if players don't have that drive that it is a kind
of a natural thing as well, but it can be developed.
So, you know, I'm mindful of that.
But, yeah, there's things in basketball.
I think because, you know, I started seeing improvements and, you know,
I'd started getting some awards.
It sort of just made me the desire even more.
And, you know, getting injuries and setbacks still didn't sort
of stop that drive.
Until I got to the point where I could hardly walk.
So but, you know, like it's sort of, yeah, I don't know.
It just, yeah, just was something, it was a great thing to do
and I just, yeah, loved it.
You both had the opportunity in your careers to head over and play overseas.
Rach, what was your time like in the WNBA in particular and the fact
that you were a WNBL champion and then had the chance to do the same
It was pretty special.
I was 21 and went over there and it was just a massive shock
to the system, a whole different kind of culture.
But one I really liked obviously played for Minnesota and they were
powerhouse of the late 2000s and then 2010 onwards.
So they had an amazing culture in their team, which is not something
Like the girls I've spoken to who've played over in the WNBA probably
haven't always said that about every team.
There can be a lot of egos and that kind of thing, you know,
trying to impress to get your own contract.
But the team I played in was amazing, just all wanted to win,
Every training session was like a bloodbath,
which you would absolutely go to win.
And then, you know, you'd go out for dinner all together later that night
and everything would be fine.
And so that's the kind of, you know, special environment to be in.
And I think you probably agree that when you look back on your career,
you can think of like those new teams, which are like not every team,
but it's just something special about it that whether we won or lost that year,
going to have special memories about that team.
But like the whole experience is just amazing.
Playing against the best in the world every second day.
And playing in front of big crowds and travelling around
and kind of just feeling a little bit like a rock star is pretty special.
Get more from your job with a career at Victoria Police.
The freedom to go on more holidays with nine weeks annual leave.
More connection with your community where you'll make a difference every day.
The chance to meet more people where workmates become your best mates.
Get all of this and more with a career at Victoria Police.
Search Police Careers today.
Authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.
It's interesting you're touching on that idea.
I think even in my sporting career, I kind of like when I went from Aussie Sevens
and to I now play with the Giants and AFLW,
I had this experience where the coach asked me,
like, you guys had success with Aussie Sevens.
What were some of the things that you did in terms of your team culture?
Like, could we try it?
And we kind of tried to copy and paste it with this specific example
and it just completely failed.
And it was just this really interesting learning experience.
Like, I feel like so many people in sport and business almost like
want to bottle up the successful culture and then carry it across,
but it just doesn't work like that.
No, it's very specific, I think, to, like, who's in there
and the characters that you have and whether everyone can buy
into what the common goal is.
And there's no set way to do that.
It's just who wants to do that, who wants to win,
who wants to beat a bit.
Do you think, Dee, from your own, do you reckon that's one
of the biggest things is everyone being driven to that same goal,
Oh, it's a huge factor in it.
But at the same time, you know, the right character of people.
You know, there might be players that aren't elite but their heart's genuine
and they're the right type of person.
And, you know, if they have that commitment and buy-in to the group,
And I think if you've got individuals that have an ulterior motive or,
you know, they're there for other reasons, it makes it really challenging.
And I think being able to have peer expectations, being able to,
you know, as players hold each other to account rather
than just being coach-driven, that I think every team that I've played
in that has had a good culture, it's because it's been peer-driven.
And I guess that's probably the same with work.
That's certainly crossed over for me with policing.
Any team environment, being peer-driven or that culture sort
of driven within the group just makes such a big difference.
And I guess it relies a lot on the character and people understanding
that everyone's got different roles to play.
You know, everyone's got different strengths.
Everyone's got different weaknesses and recognising that and being able
to work with that and celebrate them rather than sort
of using them against each other, which I've been in teams
that that's happened as well.
And it's really they're the sad memories or the memories that you're like,
no, that wasn't enjoyable.
And when that happens, you don't play your best sport either.
You don't play your best basketball when you're not happy
and you're not enjoying it.
So I guess that's also crossed over into that.
It was so crossed over into when I've been coaching now,
particularly something that I'm really conscious of doing,
because I know when athletes aren't happy, they're not playing
their best basketball.
Is that something with your coaching you really work hard on?
I think going away from the idea of like fitting everyone
into this one box of this is exactly how you should behave
and perform to be an elite athlete.
And I think, you know, I like even just Rach and us talking,
like our journey is even though we kind of, I mean,
Rach ended a lot higher than me, but, you know, we still got,
we both got to the AOS, didn't we?
We both got to the WNBL, but it's so different.
And having an appreciation for those different journeys,
I think bringing different experience, you know,
and different factors that have shaped your talent,
I think being able to recognise that, you know,
and also being honest and genuine with each other too.
I think when you've got players that are ingenuine,
it makes it really, really tricky to manage.
But, yeah, I think it's something I spend so much time on,
now as a coach, because it's just as a player,
it's probably I can only remember and have enjoyed the teams
where the culture's been positive.
And it's really obvious now the older I've got.
Yeah, it's such a big part of it.
How do you reflect on your time with the Opals?
I think it was 2005.
Did you get a debut for the Opals?
What was it like?
Was this bodysuit days?
I actually went through, yeah, my husband gives me a lot of stick now
because I have so many bags still of uniforms
and I've been slowly culling them and getting rid of them.
But they're my favourite ones that I'm obviously keeping.
But, yeah, definitely bodysuit.
Bodysuits for training camps as well.
So, you know, we couldn't even train in cigarettes and T-shirts.
We had training bodysuits.
So kind of ridiculous.
But, yeah, I was really lucky 2005, yeah,
after the season that I'd had, got selected in the Opals.
So Jan Stirling was a coach at that time.
And obviously 2006 was, yeah,
Commonwealth Games and also World Cup, yeah.
So but a lot of the players unavailable, though,
in the NBA or playing overseas.
So it was a great opportunity for rookies to get a go.
So, yeah, I had a couple of training camps and went to China.
And then also that was when Australia had to go
through Oceania qualifications.
Now it's through Asia Cup as well.
But, yeah, went over to New Zealand for a three-game series against them
to qualify for the World Cup next year, the following year.
So, yeah, amazing opportunity.
Yeah, struggled with a little shin problem that I'd picked
up playing in Spain.
So I sort of hobbled through it a little bit.
So there's a few, not regrets, but, you know, the what ifs,
which is frustrating.
And then sort of, yeah, when the WNBL season started,
whether the shin problem impacted or not.
But I hurt my knee.
So that probably instigated some chronic knee issues that I had
from that point on.
Is that something that still impacts you now with your knee?
The weather changes when these ache.
You know, like I'm sort of averaging two or three years
of I get them cleaned out.
I've got to have them both replaced.
There's not much cartilage left.
But, you know, I think it was something I was able to manage
and I did a pretty good job of managing them.
They're sort of deteriorating in the same fashion, unfortunately,
But, you know, I've sort of learnt to deal with it.
You know, I sort of am aware.
Which is quite good.
But I know when it starts getting sore,
it's probably time to get another little clean out.
So I'll keep tinkering along with that until they get replaced
or technology gives me new knees and then I'll be back playing basketball.
See you out there.
Rach, what was that experience like for you getting to represent
your country and follow in the footsteps of Opal's royalty
that really set up this, you know, this next few years
for the generations to come?
Well, I got selected.
I got selected in my first Opal squad, I think just 2011,
just before obviously in the lead up to 2011.
It's been a long day.
And I was like, no, I was only 10 then.
But that year I was injured with my knees as well,
which has again caused me lifelong issues, I'm sure.
So I didn't actually get to go to any training camps that year
or anything like that, which was disappointing.
But I got put in touch with the Basketball Australia strength
and conditioning guy at the time, which was Bowdoin Babicek.
Shout out to Bowdoin if you've listened.
So I remember Christy Harrow was seeing him at the time
and her and I would go down to the park with him like three times a week,
Doing all this stuff around knees and just all this different work.
And that was probably a switch in my head where I was like,
oh, this is what it takes.
Like Christy Harrow is here three days a week on top of everything else
she's doing for basketball to make that team when she's a lock,
like she's our best point guard.
So that was kind of an inspiration to me.
And then I had a really good WNBL season leading into 2012.
And just I guess lucky enough to make the Olympics.
And, yeah, it was just it was a really hard time because I guess
when you're on that fringe and you're really fighting to try
and make a team, especially as a 20-year-old,
I was really shy when I was younger.
So it was hard to kind of go into that environment
where all these women I'm like in awe of and have been watching, you know,
I remember I think mum pulled out like a drawing I'd done when I was in,
I think when the Athens Olympics or something was on or maybe Sydney
or something and it was like I want to be like Lauren Jackson when I'm older.
And then all of a sudden here I am like trying to make a team
where she's the captain of and ends up carrying the flag for Australia.
So it was kind of daunting, but I managed to get through that,
Made the team, which was so special.
And just to, yeah, do it alongside such amazing players
has been really dear to my heart.
When you look back on the injury journey,
if you could tell 18-year-old Rach what you would do again
if you got injured as a kid, like what do you think the biggest thing
you've learnt from it is?
I would have bumped up so hard as an 18-year-old and just get my quads
I think until you go through it, you're kind of like, no,
I'm sure I'll be right.
But, yeah, now, yeah, it would just be the rehab,
the prehab as the professionals call it now, really trying to look
after your whole body.
Like basketball's so hard on the knees that pretty much most girls get
to the end and they've got knee issues, which can't always be prevented.
But, yeah, it's just taking that.
Just taking that rehab, strength and conditioning seriously
from when I was a rebel at the interview would have been good.
T, can you tell us a little bit about how you first started working
with the police and how you first got involved?
Well, it's kind of ridiculous when I look back now because I should
have waited, but I joined Big Pole when I was 19.
So, yeah, I graduated from the AIS.
I wasn't sure where I was going to play.
So at the time, AIS don't play in the WNBL anymore,
but we were playing in the WNBL.
So we had coaches would actually fly up pre-season and meet
with all the players that they wanted to try and recruit.
So there's kind of this recruiting couple of days
where you'd have meetings.
And so I applied for uni across the country.
So I had that and I applied for criminal justice studies
because it was kind of a thing that I liked, but I wasn't sure what I wanted
But I got in a couple of different states.
But as it turned out, I signed with Dandenong Rangers and, yeah,
So I was doing pre-season with them and then obviously our season started
and one of our training players was actually in Big Pole at the time
and one of the assistant coaches was a police officer as well.
So I was hearing all these cool police stories.
Yeah, so I think I'd always had it in the back of my mind.
My mum, again, big influence and sort of had planted that seed a little bit
because she'd wanted to be when she was younger.
So I decided to bite the bullet and just give it a go.
Yeah, both the assistant coach and team mate were sort of saying,
yeah, you can do both.
So, yeah, I decided to give it a go.
And then I actually joined 15th of January 2001, mid-season,
so mid-, like right in the middle of WL season.
And, yeah, it was exhausting.
So, you know, we trained.
We trained, practised, team practised.
And, I mean, it's very different to now because they can train during the day.
But because you didn't get paid enough, it was always training in the evening.
So I'd be in the academy, you know, wake up 6.30, start, finish at 4.30.
I'd have my training bag ready to go.
I'd go to training 5.30 to 7.30.
By the time you do recovery, I'd get back just after 8 or 8.30,
back to the academy.
And I had a squaddie that would get my dinner for me and put it in the fridge
so I'd sit by myself
and smash my meal.
And then I'd ring someone and go, where are you studying?
And then I'd go and try and just cram a little bit and then go to sleep
and then do it all again the next day, you know,
and then on the weekends play, so wherever we were going,
so interstate trips or home games.
I remember it was week, when did you fire up, week 10-ish?
Yeah, week 10, yep.
And it was leading into finals.
And so we had a final, it's so bad thinking of it now,
but we had a final in Sydney Friday afternoon.
And it was at Homebush and it was Friday afternoon
and it was firearms week.
So we had to qualify like Thursday or Friday was when you sort
of qualified and cleared the week.
And I remember, like I was a bit of a benchy player for Dan Nong,
you know, we had a studded team.
But, yeah, we made this final and my coach kept saying, you know,
we're leaving Friday morning.
Like, are you, you know, are you able to come?
And I'm like, I can't leave early.
And next minute I get called to a superintendent at the police academy,
his office, which back then you never spoke,
you never really spoke to a senior sergeant, let alone an inspector,
let alone a superintendent.
So that was a big deal.
And I was nodding, so I was nearly crying walking into this meeting.
And apparently, and I didn't know, but the club Dan Nong had put
through this request through to request that I, yeah,
I can be released early on.
I can be released early on the Friday so I could fly to Sydney
for this game, so you can imagine.
And then so as it turns out, the firearms instructor's been told
and they said if I passed on the Thursday, then I was allowed to go.
So no pressure on passing firearms week early.
So I remember, but the, you know, without naming names,
the firearms instructor then took it upon himself to make it really difficult
for me for the rest of the week, you know, getting my face going,
are you here to play?
Are you here to play basketball?
Are you here to be a cop?
And I'm like, I'm here to be a police officer.
You know, so it was really, it was really intimidating.
But as it turned out, I passed on the Thursday and, yeah,
and I flew up on the Friday and my squaddies
and everyone was really supportive and it was when basketball,
ABC basketball, Saturday afternoon, 3 o'clock on TV, the final.
And so, yeah, fly out.
I remember and I just had to go direct, got a taxi straight to the game.
I'm sitting in the changing room.
Timsy, I think, might have been commentating or something
or she came in at one point and then, yeah, and then we played
and I didn't get on.
I didn't get one minute court time and then I was mortified
because my whole squad sat down to watch me play and it was mortifying.
So then I had to go back to the academy Monday morning
and then face everyone for the whole deal for me to get me away
But, you know, it was, yeah, it was pretty full.
Like I was pretty tired but at the same time got through, yeah,
and, yeah, got through the rest of the academy unscathed
and, yeah, got all my placement into the city.
And you had a time when you had a pretty last-minute contract signing
over in Italy where you also had a bit of flexibility provided by your boss.
Can you tell us a bit about that one?
Yeah, I'd actually, so I transferred.
I'd been playing for Bendigo in the off-season so I was working here
in the city and then or in eastern suburbs actually,
living in eastern suburbs, and I'd play for Bendigo.
So it was a little bit silly because I'd travel up and back
and get home at midnight and 6am and van the next day.
So then again getting pretty tired and run down.
So I'm like and Bendigo, my Bendigo coach at the time
was Christy Harrow's dad.
So Christy Harrow was in the team as well so he was applying
for a WNBL licence so Christy had somewhere to come home to retire to.
Because at that time she was playing a lot in Europe.
And then he got this licence and so he's like get up here,
see if you can transfer.
And Bendigo had actually built a whole new police station.
It was beautiful but it was larger.
So they actually had a bit of a recruiting phase.
People had been on the list for Bendigo for a couple of years
and as it turned out I went on the list and not long after I got the phone call
to say that I'd been matched to a position.
So any time you transfer regionally, Vicpol help you with the removalist
and cover costs of moving.
So I'm moving into this area.
So I'm moving into this house with another team mate
and the removalist was there and my agent calls at the time,
Alison Cook, thankfully.
So shout out to Cookie.
So she rings and she's like, Dee, I've got this gig in Italy.
You've got to go.
You can't say no.
And I'm like I haven't even done one shift here in Bendigo at all.
And so I had a cut off of when I had to sign the contract
and I think it was about three weeks' time and I hadn't worked at all
I knew maybe one, two people.
So I said, look, I'll see what I can do.
And she's like, no, you've got to do it.
Like you can't say no.
And I said, all right, I'll get back to you.
So I literally worked two weeks and I thought I'll give it two weeks
and then I'll make, you know, suss out what it's going to look like.
And as it turned out, the senior sergeant that was at Bendigo
at the time was a massive basketball fan, played basketball himself,
kids played basketball.
There were a lot of basketball fans in that worked at Bendigo.
That worked at Bendigo, which was just the best.
And, yeah, and being a country town too, they supported sport a lot too
and it was really big in the media up there.
And, yeah, so I waited two weeks and then I went into his office
and sort of said, look, I've got this opportunity.
And he didn't even hesitate.
He just said, you've got to go.
So, yeah, really, really lucky and fortunate to have that support.
So I put all my paperwork to leave without pay and off I went to Italy
Yeah, which was incredible.
And I was, yeah, I had some new people that I'd only just met
that were reaching out.
They'd email me every now and then just to check in and sort
of they followed me while I was over there, which was really cool.
Yeah, and then, yeah, trip of a lifetime.
We won the Italian Championship and won the Euro Cup.
So I was very lucky.
I was in a pretty cool team.
Have you got a favourite story to share?
Oh, I don't know.
We were talking about this before.
Yeah, I don't know.
Like a lot of stories.
A lot of stories that we've got have been.
Well, I've got, so when I was playing, and we talk about, you know,
strength and conditioning training.
So when I played, I was quite naturally strong.
So especially when I was playing for Dandenong,
we had a really significant weights program.
So I was probably the fittest and strongest I've ever been,
probably rolling out my first couple of years in VicPol.
And so when, especially rookie, well, now a lot of young people,
they can't work together, you know, as training,
like DTWs can't work together.
But when I was in the city, you could have quite a couple
of young customers on the van together often.
But one of you obviously had to go through driver training,
and I couldn't get on the list for ages.
So I wasn't allowed to drive.
So I was with this guy who's now in our special operations group,
who's extremely fit, strong, and he was training then.
So a bit of an athlete himself.
And back when Flinders Street had the King Street overpass,
I don't know whether you remember, it was a bridge kind of thing,
Flinders Street continued.
It was a bit of a rise.
A car had broken down.
And so we would just happen, we were driving past.
So he was driving.
So I kind of jumped out because his car had to be moved off,
but it was on the incline.
So I got out and just started pushing this car.
I know I wouldn't be able to do that.
But I'm just like, yeah, whatever.
And I just pushed this car up the hill off to the side of the road.
And it was right near a tram stop.
And all these people started using my off-sider because he's this big,
strong, burly man.
He's like, get out and help her.
And he's obviously got the lights on and he's trying to park the car.
Yeah, and I managed to get this car.
He didn't even help.
But he's like, she's fine.
And then as soon as we sort of got the car secure and everything,
there was like this whole standing ovation from the tram stop.
I didn't know we drove off.
But, yeah, there's been, I mean, there's obviously been some tragic stories
and gory stories and everything through Vic Bowl that I think I've really been
able to, a lot of fun too, like, you know, a lot of great memories,
great friendships, you know, funny little stories like that that just,
you know, stick in your mind that just because at the time too, you know,
it was odd to see, you know, a female copper just out,
just pushing a car up a hill.
But, yeah, I think particularly, you know,
for me having the two, basketball was my outlet.
Like I'd have some shocking days and then I'd go to WBL training and,
you know, it just gave me something, a different outlet and something else
to concentrate and focus on, you know, whether I'd still be able
to do it this day and age or not or whether they'd allow me to do it,
you know, I don't know.
But for me it actually really helped being able to have two outlets
essentially run parallel.
Was that pre-social media days?
It could have been like a viral sensation.
Oh, mate, it would have been.
Definitely, yeah.
It would have been like 2001, yeah, 2001 it probably would have been, yeah.
So, yeah, luckily, yeah.
That would have gone viral for sure.
Rach, we chatted last week before recording the podcast and one
of the components, one of the reasons why you ended up joining
in the police was partly an experience that you had, I think,
when you were in your early 20s, was it?
I was just out with a friend in the city and walking back to my car
and then we were approached by a group and robbed and beaten
up pretty badly, which is terrible.
And I guess now on the other side I see it from a cop's perspective.
But we went back to I think Melbourne East police station at the time
and Dee was working that night.
So Dee, I think, called me the next day and said,
I think, called me the next day to check in on me after hearing
what happened and, you know, just having that kind of bond,
I don't even think we'd really properly met or anything,
but just knew each other obviously through basketball and just to kind
of have people's back like that was a really amazing thing for me.
And then the detectives who handled what happened kept me informed
of everything about what was going on, you know, that kind of experience.
That good experience with police really had an impact on me
and helped me get through that.
So it was something that I wanted to kind of, you know, do for other people.
It's something that really got me interested in the job.
How was it getting to that point of, like, being comfortable to say,
I think my body's done?
Oh, so hard because I guess you don't want to, yeah, you don't want to, like,
leave anything out there, but also you don't want to go
until you're absolutely shot and you can't even help your teammates anymore.
So I think I just got to the end of my last season and I was exhausted.
And then I went into an NBL One season and I couldn't train really anymore
and training was hard.
I think that was I used to, like, love going to training,
love being with my teammates.
I loved trying to win every drill at training.
But training got really hard and it was a chore and I didn't really want to go.
And that's kind of when I realised my priorities have changed
and it's not bringing me as much joy as it did.
And that's not an easy realisation to come to when basketball's been your whole life
pretty much since you were five.
So it was a hard time, but, you know, some amazing friends and family
that's brought me through that.
And I think, you know, having a career outside of basketball
really helped immensely as well.
It was not like, oh, what now, kind of feeling empty.
It was, yeah, at least I've got something else I can focus on, you know,
and put my time into.
I could keep talking to you guys for a good couple of hours,
but I've really loved getting to know each of you and a bit more
about your stories.
I've watched you for many, many years.
And admired what you did on the court.
But really cool to kind of get to know a bit more about you guys
off the court as well.
So thank you so much for your time.
And good luck for the rest of your careers.
Hope the knees hold up a little bit longer.
No, they're fine.
Big pole, they're fine.
I can chase crooks all day.
Thanks so much, guys.
Thanks so much for listening.
If you got something out of this episode,
I would absolutely love it if you could send it on to one person
who you think might enjoy it.
Otherwise, subscribe, give us a review,
and make sure you follow us on Instagram at thefemaleathleteproject
to stay up to date with podcast episodes, merch drops,
and of course news and stories about epic female athletes.