Bringing Parity To Paris With Ioc Development Director Marie Sallois

Growing up as a young girl in Paris, Marie Salawar spent most of her childhood surrounded by sport.

In fact, it was her basketballing godmother who showed her how sport can be used to travel the world.

But it was a fateful moment 20 years ago that led her to walk through the doors of the International Olympic Committee in Switzerland.

Using her initiative, Marie reached out to the director for the Olympic Games, asking for a job.

And as they say, the rest is history.

Now Marie's story has come full circle as she prepares for her 10th Olympic Games working at the IOC, which will take place in her city of birth, Paris.

Marie is the Corporate and Sustainable Development Director at the International Olympic Committee.

She is responsible for driving not only environmental sustainability, but gender equality and inclusion.

An exciting role as the Paris Games becomes the first Olympics.

To reach full gender parity in the number of athletes competing.

My name's Sophie and I'm a producer here at the Female Athlete Project.

This week, Chloe caught up with Marie less than 50 days out from the Paris 2024 Games.

This is a powerful chat about how far the International Olympic Committee have come and what excitement lies ahead.

We hope you enjoy it.

Marie, welcome to the Female Athlete Project.

Thank you, Chloe, for the invitation.

I'm so looking forward to having a chat with you today.

Just off air, we were discussing the fact that this is your 10th edition of the Olympic Games.

How on earth does that feel to be preparing for your 10th Games?

Just amazing, especially because Paris 2024 will take place in the city I was born.

That's very, very special.

Before we get into where you're up to now, can you give us a bit of a rundown about how you first became involved in sport and in the Olympics?

So I always practiced sports.

I had a lot of people, you know, athletes in my family.

My godmother used to be a basketball player for many years and she would come back from different corners of the world with T-shirts.

And this is how I traveled the world in the first place when I was a child.

So it definitely influenced my childhood.

And then I practiced some sports myself, not at a very competitive level, but at university level.

I used to row in eight boats.

And this is how I actually met my husband.

So sport has always been very connected, you know, to different key milestones in my life.

But the first part of my career, I was working in consulting and I was helping companies with transformation projects.

So it's a little bit by chance I entered the IOC 20 years ago.

I was actually already in Switzerland and I had a newborn.

And my former boss, who was really a mentor, said that I should get in contact with the IOC.

And this is how the first contact was done.

And so you reached out and got in touch.

And what happened from there?

I've been always very lucky in life.

So, yes, I got in touch with the director for Olympic Games.

And then he directed me to the director general that was new at the time and was looking for a right hand.

And he happened to propose me the job that didn't exist.

And I love to start with a blank sheet of paper.

And here I was.

So I started as a right hand and did different jobs until now.

That's amazing.

And can you give us a rundown about your current role with the IOC?

Yeah, sure.

So I am currently the director for corporate and sustainable development, which means I have basically two hats.

One is to help the implementation of the strategic roadmap of the Olympic movement, Olympic Agenda 2020.

And the second is sustainable development.

So it means really my role is to accelerate change in different fields of environmental and social responsibility, including gender equality.

I have fortunately been a part of the Olympics myself as an Olympian.

And it's such a special thing in so many different areas of life.

But it's quite an amazing opportunity that can open doorways and open conversations and has the ability to really start conversations around some of those broader topics.

How do you think those things in your role obviously aligns with these really important values of the Olympics?

And definitely.

I mean, I think.

Yeah.

With the convening power of the Olympic Games and the acceleration factor, because we know it's taking place at a certain date, we can do things that normally people can't.

So this is really striking in many different ways, you know, on sustainability or gender equality.

And if you take gender equality, the fact that we are going to reach parity in the field of play in Paris, you know, is an amazing historical milestone for sport, but also beyond sport.

We have a long way to go.

I think an important part to me is that it takes a century to get there, but it's a very important showcase of what can be done in terms of gender equality globally.

So the Games on one side, I mean, because of their visibility and their power to inspire an amazing platform to promote gender equality, and also a showcase of the possibilities that can be implemented in sport, but beyond sport.

You've touched on the fact that it did take a century.

What are some of the steps that have been put in place to achieve that, even though it's a very minor activity?

I think we've got a lot going on.

We have great players, we have great footballers, we have great players in the sport scene.

achieve that even though it's a very long time it's a big positive that we're actually reaching

it in 2024 yes indeed it took a century and uh as you may remember in 1900 the first edition

of the games taking place in paris we had only two percent of the participants who were

women which i mean is just amazing but it was the first edition including a woman and then uh 24

years later only four percent uh were women and we had to wait until montreal 76 to get to the 20

and it's only recently that actually we started increasing the participation of women

athletes at the games in london this was a turning point in 2012 because women competed

for the first time in all sports and the iuc introduced a rule by which they ask every

national olympic committee to send at least one woman and one man to the olympic games

and then in the mid of the pandemic in tokyo in 2021 we succeeded in reaching 48 percent and

un women recognized that it was actually an incredible important moment for uh advancing

gender equality because you know i mean the pandemic affected more women than men they are

more severely uh women and despite that we're able to increase the participation of women at

the olympic games so it was also a very very strong signal that we shouldn't stop fighting

you

and now we're reaching parity in paris exact parity and this is science just for uh to your

question this is thanks to the iuc really distributing an equal quota of places uh for

women and men so that's really coming from the top you know us deciding that now we want 50 50

and reflecting back on obviously it was such a long time ago that that century ago

but there's been so many attitudes that have have to had to shift throughout that process

changing this idea of women people thinking women couldn't run a marathon because their bodies

weren't capable of doing it what has that process been like in a role like yours and

having to have these conversations to challenge these archaic views sometimes

so i cannot talk for a century i can only talk for uh the time i've been in charge of this topic

which is just a few years as part of olympic agenda um the way we have addressed it is

you know it used to be the concern of many women and i think with the leadership of our president

thomas bar it was really positioned as an executive priority and as a question of good governance that

concerns everyone men and women so it was a very very different positioning you know in terms of

how we address the topic and by putting really um gender equality at the very heart of a strategy

and explaining that it's a topic uh that everybody should embrace because we cannot afford to leave

the world population aside it's just common sense you know it's not just to because we want to please

women it's just we cannot get do without half of the population's competencies so i think he made

it clear that everybody had to find solutions so the way we have addressed it with all the

constituents of the olympic movement is we have defined strategy like for everything else you know

with objectives that cut across the three spheres of responsibility we have so as an organization

we have defined strategy like for everything else you know we have defined strategy like for everything else you know

and under the leadership of a president and as part of olympic agenda 2020 we have

multiplied by two the women in the membership going from 20 to over 40 and the same you know

in the commissions we went from it is even more 20 to actually full parity in the commission which

are the advisory body to the political level so we really walked auto internally and then at the

games we decided already 10 years ago to do a series of interviews with women and women and

that we wanted to reach parity in Paris.

And we put in place everything

that would help us to get there.

And then at the Olympic movement level,

we are engaging day in and day out,

National Olympic Committee and federations

across five topics.

Participation,

because if you don't build the pipelines,

you will not have Olympians like you.

But also leadership,

because if you don't have women at the table,

they are not part of the decision-making process.

Safe sport,

because we know it's very, very important

for all athletes, including women.

Portrayal,

because it's very nice to have a woman

in the field of play.

But if we don't give them the visibility,

they will not be role model

for future generation.

And if you can see it, you can beat.

So it's very important that we give

and provide this visibility.

And last but not least,

resource allocation,

because we want women to benefit

from the resources equally.

So to have a very systematic approach,

position,

and to position this topic

at the very executive level

helped us make great progress.

And the last thing that is very important,

and this is also stressed by you and women,

you know,

when you measure things,

you get them done.

So we actually measure.

So we have dashboard

for different edition of the games now

of the breakdown of women

by all categories of people accredited at the games.

And we're able to engage

with an NOC, for instance,

every time a National Olympic Committee

comes to Olympic House

or we meet them elsewhere.

I go with my dashboard

and I have the full delegation

by role.

So medical doctor, team leaders,

you know, chef de mission,

et cetera, athletes.

And I know the exact gender breakdown.

And then you engage

in a very different conversation.

It's not, you know, perception.

It's facts.

So you put the facts on the table

and you say, OK,

then what are your plans to do better

at the next edition of the games?

And even, you know,

with countries which are very advanced

in gender equality

and interesting discussion,

because suddenly they realized

that they could take action

and it was not even in their radar.

So that's the type of measures

we put in place.

And so you've touched on this idea

around the good governance,

the fact that it's common sense

and there's obviously

a huge amount of work

that's been done with the athletes

to achieve that gender parity.

You've touched on

some of those support roles.

We know in coaching

that women aren't very well represented

at that level, medical staff,

those kind of roles.

What does that look like from your end?

Obviously, you're having these,

you know, conversations with facts

with the NOCs,

but do you put quotas in place in future?

What does that look like?

So we have two objectives

that we committed to

at the Sport for Generation Equality meeting

that was hosted in 2021 in France

under the patronage of President Macron

and UN Women.

One was to consolidate the Olympic Games

as a platform to promote

and progress gender equality.

And I will talk to that.

And second,

to continue to accelerate

the meaningful representation of women

in leadership and decision-making roles.

When it comes to the Olympic Games,

obviously, we will reach parity

in the field of play.

But beyond that,

we are encouraging all the constituents

to go further

and progress gender equality

in different roles.

We are very happy that actually in Paris,

in the technical official category,

we will have already six federations

who have officially, you know,

said that they will reach parity.

And so you see,

we are progressing

and I'm sure and convinced

that after the Games,

I can report to you

that we have also made a lot of progress

in team management

because all the conversation

we have had

with the National Olympic Committee,

you know,

will have results.

But as you said,

you know,

there are categories

where we are really far away

from parity,

including the coaches category

where women represented

only 13% of all coaches

at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020.

So,

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big part of it.

So here,

we need to take drastic measures.

We are discussing

with all the constituents.

Obviously,

it's difficult

because in some sports

and individual sports,

you know,

this is the athlete

who is choosing the coach.

So it's very far away from us.

But what we are doing

is we have put in place

the WISH program

that is financed

by Olympic Solidarity

that is training,

you know,

dozens of women

at the international level

and to also provide them

with exposure.

So as a result,

we already have six women

who have benefited

from this program

that will participate

and will be coached

at the Olympic Games

in Paris 2024.

So we see progress.

Obviously,

you know,

not maybe at the speed we want,

but we are also,

you know,

convinced that we will get there

ultimately.

One of the words

that you talked about

in the strategy,

which I love,

was portrayal,

I believe,

and about

the fact that

the women's football team

has a lot of visibility aspect.

What does scheduling

of the games

look like

to address something

like visibility

and the portrayal

of female athletes?

I mean,

scheduling is fundamental

for us

because we know,

you know,

depending on when

the events take place,

you don't have

the same visibility

as with the broadcast

because the event

is mainly consumed

through the broadcast

of the games.

So our teams

have been working

very hard

to balance the events

between the women events

and the men events,

not just during the weekend

but throughout

the two weeks

of competition.

And so it means

that day by day now,

we have balanced events

between the two genders

and we also make sure

that they have

the exact same visibility,

you know,

when it's broadcasted.

One or two examples,

one which will be

the most striking

in Paris

is we have reversed

the order of the marathon.

So the last event

of the Olympic Games

will be the women marathon

and the medal

will be awarded

at the closing

ceremony.

And as you know,

you know,

all eyes are

on the closing ceremony.

So it will be,

I mean,

imagine how it will feel

for the winner,

you know,

the gold medalist

of the marathon

to be awarded,

you know,

the medal

at the closing ceremony.

That's just amazing.

But more importantly,

the route of the marathon

for both men and women

will be very symbolic

because it will take

the route

that the French women

have taken

during the French Revolution

from Paris to Versailles

to go and ask

the king

to come back

to the city

of Paris

and give them

more bread

and resources.

So it's a very,

very symbolic route

in the French history

and this will be

the route

of both marathons.

So you see

quite a lot of

measures being taken

but also a lot

of symbolism behind.

One of the things

I also saw

which I thought

was incredible

was the fact that

prior to the marathon

normal people

can run the route.

Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

So there is,

something very exciting

in Paris.

We have what they call

the Marathon pour tous.

So the marathon for all

and during the night

a lot of people,

you, me,

not you because

you are Olympian,

but I mean

like general people

will be able

to actually

run this marathon

on the exact same route

as the athletes

the next day.

And here you also

have parity

in the participants.

Yeah, that's amazing.

One thing I'd also love

to touch on

when we posted

a couple of times

about this 50-50

gender parity

and what a positive step

it is and it's been

incredibly engagement.

People love to see

this gender parity.

There's a couple of people

who talk about

certain sports

that don't have

gender parity

in terms of the number

of teams that are able

to qualify.

For example,

in football,

I think men's 16

and women is 12 teams.

What does that look like

from your perspective

and what level

of involvement

is there from

the global sporting

federations themselves

in that decision-making

process?

So, I mean,

obviously, you know,

the program,

is discussed

very carefully

with all the federations.

We know,

I mean,

you probably know

that we have 28 sports

out of 32

which are

reaching parity.

So,

this is an ongoing

conversation

and where we are

not so far,

you know,

from reaching parity

in all sports.

So, we continue

the conversation

with them

and we are not

going to let go.

I like it.

I'd love to chat

about the sustainability

component of your role.

I imagine you've been

asked a lot

of times

about the quality

of the water

in the river.

What does that

process look like

to get the river

ready to go

for events?

So, maybe before

we speak about

the River Seine,

sustainability

has been at the very

heart of the project

of Paris

from the beginning.

And why?

Because Paris

decided to

be a candidate

to host the Games

as part of

a new

strategic roadmap

and sustainability

was one of the

key pillars

of this roadmap.

So, from day one,

we really engaged

with Paris

on how they could

mainstream

gender sustainability.

And they have committed,

as you may know,

to reduce by half

the carbon footprint

of the Games,

which is drastic

and which means

that they have really

looked at everything

that has an impact

on the footprint.

Whether it's maximizing

the use of

existing venues

and using

temporary ones,

whether it's

using public

transportation

to get there

and bikes,

whether it's connecting

all the venues

to renewable energy

through the grid,

not depending

on diesel generator,

whether it's cutting

by half the carbon

footprint of a meal,

everything,

or,

and very important,

delivering a material

footprint

that allows them

to know that

90% of what

they have bought

for the Games

has already

a second life.

So, they have been

very sophisticated

on how they address

sustainability.

But now that you come

to River Seine

and because I was

born in Paris

and I'm Parisian

originally,

and River Seine

has been part

of my childhood

and it's very dear

to my heart.

Since I was born,

I've heard about,

you know,

being able to

swim back in the Seine.

By the way,

my grandmother

used to swim

and my mother

did swim,

but it was not

in the water of the Seine.

It was a swimming pool

which was actually

on the River Seine,

but which,

you know,

the water was not

coming from the Seine.

So, it's on top?

So, it was on the shore,

but the swimming pool,

which was literally

in the river,

but the water

was not coming

from the river.

But it was very,

very popular,

you know,

after the Second World War.

People would go there

and sand bath.

So, there is a tradition

already, you know,

in various families

of actually being

close to the River Seine

or even swimming,

not really in the water

of the Seine,

but in the Seine.

Now,

what is amazing

because it has been

decades,

we talk about that,

and when I was

actually a child,

along the River Seine,

you had two big motorways.

So, you could not

even,

you know,

close to the Seine.

And now,

you know,

close to the Seine,

you have pathways,

you can bike,

the cars have been,

you know,

removed.

So, it's already

a much more

enjoyable experience.

But without the Games,

I don't think

we could have accelerated

the cleaning of the Seine.

And this is

the type of things

that the Olympic Games

provide,

is this acceleration factor

because it could have

eventually been done,

probably in another century.

But suddenly,

all eyes on Paris,

all eyes,

all eyes,

all eyes on the

River Seine,

especially because

the opening ceremony

will take place there.

And then,

you have everyone,

all the local authorities,

you know,

putting in place

actions

to meet this deadline.

So, yes,

it's a challenge.

It's a very

important acceleration.

It's challenging,

especially if we have

big rainfalls.

But ultimately,

I think the Games

will allow it to happen.

It's quite

an amazing thing

to think about,

even the opening ceremony.

When I thought

about potentially

trying to go

to the Olympics again

for Rugby Sevens,

that was one thing

that really drew me back.

Like, it's quite a spectacle

to think about the history

of the river

and what's involved in that.

So, it's a very special thing,

isn't it?

It is a special thing

because, you know,

I mean,

when I used to be in Paris

and I was traveling,

I mean,

when I came back,

really where I felt

I was back home

is when I was sitting

on the bridge,

you know,

on the River Seine.

That's really what Paris is.

So, to imagine

all these athletes

on boats

crossing Paris

and going through

Notre Dame,

you know,

the Eiffel Tower,

it would be amazing.

Yeah, absolutely.

Can I ask you,

what event

are you most looking forward

to watching

at the Paris Olympics?

There are many.

I hope I will get the time

to watch them.

I mean,

first and foremost,

I would like to go

to the Aquatic Centre.

That is the single

sport venue

being built

at the occasion

of the Games

in the north part of Paris,

which is

the,

the disadvantaged

neighbourhood

where very young,

but a lot of people

unemployed.

And this swimming pool

is very symbolic

because this is

a place where

one out of two child

age 10 to 12

do not know

how to,

does not know

how to swim.

And with the Games,

we have

accelerating,

you know,

both infrastructure

available

for these children

to learn

how to swim,

but also we train

a lot of swim teachers.

So for me,

to be at the Games,

this Aquatic Centre,

that will be a legacy

of the Olympic Games

will be very symbolic

and emotional.

Obviously,

I would like to go

see some events

in the Urban Park

at the Concorde

because it's just amazing.

I mean,

breakdance

and such sports

have been,

you know,

a discovery for me

when I was at the

Youth Olympic Games

Buenos Aires.

Beach volley

under the Eiffel Tower

will be something unique.

And rowing

in Vers-sur-Man

because I used to row.

So always,

you know,

very exciting as well.

Plenty on the radar.

You've contributed

a huge amount

to sport

and the Olympic Games.

To finish us off,

what do you hope

will be a legacy

that you can leave?

I would be very selfish

if I think

I can leave

a legacy myself

on my own.

I believe that

we have,

I mean,

already in Paris

with many stakeholders,

the legacy

has already started

and has been

to a certain extent

delivered

because millions

of people

have already benefited

from more sport

in their daily life.

Like, for instance,

you know,

5 million of people

have benefited

from 1,000 projects

that have been

giving them access

to new opportunities

through sport.

But also,

many primary schools

have benefited

from this introduction

of 30 minutes

of physical activity

daily at school.

But more generally

at the IOC,

I believe

what I probably

have contributed to

as part of

Olympic Agenda 2020

is really

to drive

transformation

on sustainability,

on gender equality

in a very systematic manner,

leveraging some

of the business

toolkits

I knew,

you know,

applied to our world

because at the end

of the day,

you know,

everything we have been

talking about

is about,

you know,

delivering results.

This is what we do in sports,

but this is what we need

also to do

in sustainability,

in gender equality.

So it's about

setting goals,

you know,

putting an approach

in place

to meet these goals

and measuring results.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love that.

Thank you so much again

for your time today.

I've loved learning

more about you

and more about the IOC

and all of the incredible

things that are happening.

Counting down the days

to Paris,

wishing you

and all of the team

at the IOC

best of luck.

Thank you, Chloé.

Only 50 days to go.

Oh, amazing.

It's coming around

very fast.

Thank you very much

for the opportunity

to talk to you.

It was lovely.