71 Is Australia Looking At Labor Full House

Ever wonder what your lashes are destined for?

The cards have spoken.

Maybelline New York Mascara does it all.

Whether you crave fully fan lashes with lash sensational,

big, bold volume from the colossal,

a dramatic lift with falsies lash lift,

or natural looking volume from great lash,

your perfect lash future awaits.

Manifest your best mascara today.

Shop Maybelline New York and discover your lash destiny.

Shop now at Walmart.

Every idea starts with a problem.

Morby Parker's was simple.

Glasses are too expensive.

So they set out to change that.

By designing glasses in-house and selling directly to customers,

they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted

and unexpectedly affordable.

Morby Parker glasses are made from premium materials

like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate.

And they start at just $95, including prescription lenses.

Get glasses made from the good stuff.

Stop by a Morby Parker store near you.

I'm Mike Boris and this is Straight Talk.

I think we'd probably,

we'd be better friends if I wasn't trying to get him sacked.

It's slightly awkward that we want to end each other's careers.

Chris Minns, Premier of Peroté, welcome to Straight Talk.

Thanks, Mark.

Do we trust the government?

Gladys Berejiklian is fighting for her job.

The former Labor Minister was today sentenced.

How do you think about what went down during the beads and all that sort of stuff?

It was appalling behaviour.

We've got ICAC in New South Wales.

It's an important institution.

When you make a mistake, you just own up to it.

Rent has gone out of control.

How do you tackle housing?

We've got to unlock.

We've got to build more land.

But we've got to build the infrastructure as well.

I was always taught to take the job seriously.

And I do take it really seriously.

But I don't take myself too seriously.

In government, it's always focused on the here and now.

But what about the future?

Australians are a lot more sceptical, somewhat cynical about politicians.

There's a lot of similarity between the two of you.

He speaks well of you.

I speak well of him.

And you speak well of him.

Do you think he's ready for what you've experienced?

Premier Perrottet, welcome to Straight Talk.

Thanks, Mark.

Great to be here.

I'm actually honoured to have the Premier of New South Wales sitting in the hot seat.

Right, we're in the middle of an election.

You're on a really tight budget in terms of time.

So let's cut to the chase.

I want to know about what you announced on Sunday.

That's the very first thing I want to know.

I'm a grandfather.

Yeah.

And I've got a grandkid.

Yeah.

And I've got four sons.

And hopefully I've got some more.

Grandkids are on their way, hopefully.

Well, I think maybe I have.

And so I thought to myself, what's the research say behind that?

So how are you responding to the research and what people in New South Wales want?

Well, we know, Mark, we had a Productivity Commission review here in New South Wales

and what it's shown in terms of housing and education,

that the intergenerational gap going forward is going to create more and more challenges for our kids.

And we've got to look at new ways of giving them that financial support.

And we also know that many parents,

don't provide and save for their children's future.

So the idea behind this scheme was to help kids from birth all the way through to 18 to save and their parents save.

And ultimately, the end of it, they've got a nest egg there to help them with education and with getting a deposit for their first home.

I mean, we do a lot with superannuation and, you know, we look after the elderly once they once they've retired and that sets them up and obviously alleviates pressure on federal budgets.

But.

I often thought when I was treasurer of the state, why don't we do anything for our children?

So we worked on it for some time and we announced it on Sunday.

I guess people don't realize this, but you do do polling and research and you get to find out what what certain cohorts of voters think is important.

Some people might say that's, you know, you're just playing the game, throwing money around the joint to win votes.

But at the end of the day, that's what your job is, to make sure that you satisfy what people want.

Yeah.

I think it's important.

That what we don't do is and I've always been passionate, like focus groups aren't there to run policy for the government.

You know, you can test ideas and see what people think.

It might be a way that you communicate a policy that can help you.

And this is an idea that I had back when I was treasurer.

And if we could start every child who's born in New South Wales with $400, match contributions from parents and grandparents, dollar for dollar, all the way up to $1,000.

We could end up in a situation.

We could end up in a situation where our children are leaving school with up to $49,000 in their account.

So we tested it over time in terms of new ways of doing it or what the thresholds should be.

But I think where we've landed it makes the most sense where we'll contribute as a state up to $400 for every child if that co-contribution is matched.

Every year?

Every year.

So let's say my grandson's born, you know, in nine months time.

Yeah.

What happens on the day he's born?

There's $400.

Yeah.

Go to Service New South Wales.

Yep.

Day one.

Yep.

Set up an account.

Yep.

We'll immediately deposit $400 in.

Yep.

And that for every year, we will match parents and grandparents' contribution dollar for dollar up to $400.

And then the parent or the grandparent can contribute up to $1,000.

We're targeting a return of 7% every year, but we're guaranteeing 4%.

So on those numbers, if we're getting a 7% return every year, you get up to $49,000 by the time the child is 18.

And then from that point, they've got two options.

They can start to withdraw it for education, for HECS, for textbooks, for tools, if you're doing an apprenticeship.

And then, or you can continue to contribute yourself.

The government contribution stops.

But you just think about it, right?

Like every child when they're 18, they're starting with a deposit.

They're starting with a built-up nest egg.

And that will encourage them to continue to save as well.

I think you...

I'm very passionate about teaching our children financial literacy and getting parents to think about that more.

And in government, it's always focused on the here and now.

But what about the future?

And that's our obligation, I think, as a government is to make sure our kids have better opportunities than we do.

And this investment will be repaid many times over, in my view.

The intergenerational gap.

Could you explain what that means?

I just think that the gap in the cost of health and education that our children will face compared to us,

and they believe that's going to grow.

And that's going to grow and grow over time.

Now, half of that is the government's problem in terms of looking at, okay, well, you know,

we've got to balance the budget.

We've got to look at new ways of doing things to make sure that those costs to the state aren't increasing.

But we're also seeing the cost of housing getting more and more out of reach for children.

And that's the best thing we can do is get young people into home ownership.

It grows their wealth.

But at the same time, I also want parents.

It's hard, right?

Like being a parent, balancing work and family life is really difficult.

Don't worry, I'm going to talk to you about that in a minute.

Well, I get it.

I get it.

But if we can just get to a point where I think if parents sit there and say, well,

hold on, the government's helping me here.

If I can put $8 a week, $8, that's two cups of coffee, $8 a week aside, then I can have

a situation where my child, from the date they're born, when they leave school at 18,

has that money there to help them with their education and also to get that deposit.

It's funny.

It's like the old-fashioned endowment policies that my mom and dad actually had one for me.

By the way, my mom told me when she was alive, when you were a treasurer, she said to me one day,

we were watching TV before she passed away because she had an MND, and we were watching

and she wrote down a piece of paper about you, you were a treasurer.

I liked that young man.

Oh, that's nice.

This is a long time.

This is a few years ago.

And she said, I liked that young man.

And then you obviously, to her, you're a young man, but that's not a bad endorsement coming

from my mom.

In terms of housing, I just want to talk to you about housing right now.

Of course,

housing prices will go up.

$50,000 may not be as big of a deposit as it is today then because you've got to add

the future value money, but nonetheless, it goes towards it.

How do you tackle housing?

Because I'd imagine it is a big issue in New South Wales for especially kids between, young

people between 20 and say 40 who are either trying to rent or trying to save a deposit.

How do we address that problem in terms of supply?

Because really at the end of the day, we need more supply.

Yep, we do.

And so part of that is I think we've got to unlock more.

We've got to unlock more land, but we've got to build the infrastructure as well.

So for example, we're putting Metro trains out to Western Sydney, we've got that new

airport coming on.

We are changing the way that Sydney looks before our very eyes.

And I was out the other day at the new airport, Metro station.

What was once a paddock, it's still a paddock, but a massive Metro construction site right

in the middle of it.

In 10 years time, this will transform into a new city.

And if you build the infrastructure, you're going to be able to build the infrastructure,

you're going to be able to build the infrastructure.

Then the housing comes off the back of it.

So we've got to keep opening that up.

We're going to work with councils.

And we've done a lot of work into accelerated infrastructure funds for that ancillary sewerage

and water.

That's going to unlock about 140,000 new homes.

The best way to help our children get in the housing market is to build more homes.

First and foremost, if we build more homes, increase supply, then we'll be in a position

where we can get less pressure on the housing market.

Because I read an article the other day that said something like over 70% of parents,

do not believe their kids will ever be able to buy a home.

And that's staggering, that is a staggering number and it's becoming harder and harder.

So we've got to look at new and innovative ways of doing it, but supply is the key.

Number one is supply.

I think the second aspect then is, you know, I don't like stamp duty, I've never liked

it.

I think it's a terrible, terrible tax.

It stops productivity growth and it stops young people getting in the housing market.

And you think about the time it takes to save like $50,000 in stamp duty, by the time they've

done that.

It's taken two years, the property market's increased and they've just further and further

behind.

So that's why one of the policies I've put together is to give first home buyers the

choice of either paying that upfront stamp duty or paying a smaller annual amount.

And then I've announced recently that they will now have that choice for the rest of

their lives.

So they'll make the decisions that best suit their needs.

And I've always said treasurers make great premiers, by the way, certainly in New South

Wales.

That has been history.

In all the areas of government because you're funding it.

Totally.

Because then, yeah, I think that's been an important sort of observation in New South

Wales in particular, that I've seen a lot of the great premiers have been treasurers

in the past.

Well, Baird, Glad and me, all three were treasurers.

Correct.

And I wanted, I was going to ask you in relation to that pay land tax annually versus pay stamp

duty once, if you sell the property after two years, do you have to keep paying the

land tax?

No.

So you would have paid a smaller amount for two years?

Yeah.

So let's just take a $50,000 property, you might pay a few thousand dollars a year.

You do that for two years, you sell your property, bang, that's it, it's all done.

Very similar to council rates.

Yeah.

So it sort of makes a bit of sense in that, because I'm in the home loan business and

the average person in Australia, I don't know about New South Wales and Australia, only

stays in their place these days for about five or six years.

Five, six years.

So they're out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think that if I was trying to, if I'm talking to my kids and I'm trying to advise

them how to arbitrage stamp duty, the upfront cost, I would definitely advise them to pay

the land tax or to take the land tax option.

Yeah.

And I think it makes a lot of sense for younger people.

I mean, you say, Mark, I agree with you, it's about six to seven years or so on average,

but I think younger people, the next generation will move around a lot more.

And they'll also have that choice.

Because if stamp duty is sitting there, even on your second property, it's an impediment

to move because you've got to obviously stump up tens of thousands of dollars.

So what the change I've made is that you can, you have that choice for your first home,

you might live there for a couple of years.

Then if you sell it and you go to your second home, well, you have that choice as well.

Which you might stay in for 20 years.

You might stay in for longer.

Yeah.

So again, you can arbitrage back the other way.

First home, you probably won't stay there very long.

But you might go and pay stamp duty on your second if you think you could stay there for

20 years.

Correct.

So that choice.

You know, they get their foot in the door with an apartment.

They then might move to a small home, have children.

So on their second home, they might keep that choice.

But then by the time they've moved through and their income has increased over time,

by the time they get their third home, that could be their dream home where they go, this

is it.

20 years, I'm staying.

Pay once.

Or then they'll pay the stamp duty.

So it really gives them choices that suit their circumstances.

And I think younger people today, and I often say this, that younger people today, they

can't afford to live where they've grown up.

They've grown up usually.

And or they can't afford to live where they want to live.

So I often say to them, well, just get in on the property market, go and buy in a regional

area.

It doesn't make any difference.

And live where you rent where you want to live, with a couple of maids or whatever the

case may be.

Share the rent.

And then at least get in on to the property market.

So that's another arbitrage process.

And if you can then go and double arbitrage the land tax versus stamp duty, you can save

yourself quite a lot of money upfront.

It allows you to get into the property market quicker.

So I really like that policy.

That's a great policy.

But what about renters?

So I mean, some people will never get out of that trap.

And rent has got out of control.

I mean, my team here, we're out for inspection the other day, there was a line of 50 meters

long.

They're going around talking to everybody, you know, what do you think?

What do you think?

How do we fix the rental problem in New South Wales?

Well, the first thing is, I think, goes back to that first point we made on, we've got

to build more homes to put downward pressure on rent.

We outlawed last year.

We did.

We outlawed last year.

Rent bidding.

So what we saw with some real estate agents is they're playing tenants off each other,

prospective tenants off each other, increasing the price up.

So we've put an end to that.

Then I think another, a number of changes we've moved going forward.

Firstly, that we're moving away from no-fault evictions into reasonable grounds.

It's going to be a reasonable ground for a landlord to evict the tenant.

Secondly, going towards more standard contracts of three to five years.

So obviously as a landlord, you can, you can, you'll negotiate.

You can negotiate with your tenant, but in terms of a standard form, if we can start

to change the thinking of landlords, particularly that, well, hold on, there is a benefit here.

There's a benefit of having a longer contract in place.

Then that gives greater security as well to the tenant.

And if you know that when you've got a good tenant, that you could lock them in for that

period of time, I think that will really help our renters as well, and particularly young

people.

The other one is bond rollover.

So by the, you know, when you put that bond in and then you go off to your next place,

you've then got to save again, then trying to claim your bond back.

So we've got a bond rollover scheme now, which we're going to, which we're bringing in, which

will mean that when you go into your next place, you don't have to, you don't have to

save for that bond, particularly if you, if you, if you're cash poor, you've got, you've

got that just rolled over to help you with your, your next place.

So these are the types of things that, that we're working on.

We do need greater protections in place for tenants, particularly in circumstances where

more and more people are renting now.

Yeah.

It seems as though the pendulum has swung back in favour of the landlords.

And of course, landlords are going to take advantage of it.

You can't blame them.

I mean, I guess.

Well, they're struggling with interest rate rises as well.

At the moment, that's the worst thing.

In terms of that, you know, what do you, where do you see our economy in New South Wales?

I don't mean it relative to the rest of the nation.

That's a different question.

How do you see the economy in New South Wales, given the circumstances we are currently in

with, you know, the Reserve Bank going hard on interest rates?

Probably relentlessly will continue to do so irrespective what's going on in the US

in terms of those banks that went, went belly up.

I think the Reserve Bank is still going to try and control inflation.

Therefore, they'll probably continue to at least hold the rates where they are or go

one more, but they're not going to reduce them because they've got to control inflation.

How do you see the New South Wales economy in that environment?

Still confident, still confident.

And I think a lot of the confidence or business confidence and consumer confidence has stayed

pretty strong, particularly off the back of the pandemic.

And I think that obviously was a very, what was, I mean, I was, I was treasurer during

most of it.

It was a really difficult time and many businesses thought they were going to close, but they

all came, you know, so most of them came out the other side in a very strong position.

I thought, well, if we can get through that, we can get through this.

I do speak to a lot of small business owners.

And they say to me that the softer day is always the day after the Reserve Bank raised

rates.

And I think that that hits the confidence of consumers, but then they readjust.

And look, I think it's, we're going to have some challenges and difficult times over the

next 12 to 18 months, but I'm very confident we'll get through.

Now, from an economic perspective as well, my job as the Premier is to continue to build

the infrastructure.

Just our public investment in infrastructure before the pandemic began was only about half

percentage point to economic growth.

A hundred and, I think over the next four years.

So, over the next four years is around 160,000 jobs in New South Wales supported by that public

investment.

Now, we look at inflation, look at the challenge of interest rates.

What's the flip side?

Unemployment is at record lows, 3.1%.

See that down at three the other day, it was the lowest in our state's history.

So that you want a job in New South Wales, you can get a job.

So, that's the best security that we can provide people.

And so, I'm confident of the future.

Just based on where we've been.

So, I'm confident of the future.

And what we've gone through over the last four years, I think the headwind, there are

headwinds here.

I accept that.

But I think we'll get, you know, we'll continue to come out of this in a much stronger and

more resilient way.

I often travel out to the regions.

I went out to Orange a couple of weeks ago, and I went to the Great Western Highway, which

is the Deputy Premier's area, whatever you call it, water, whatever it is.

And I noticed so much roadwork.

And obviously, I listen to local radio and they talk, the big debate is roadwork and

spending money, spending money.

But do you ever, as treasurer, as a person who understands money and treasury and responsibility

of money in, money out, do you ever think to yourself, wow, in election periods, we

have to make so many promises that to some extent we might even be contributing to inflation

a bit in that, as you know, GDP has a lot to do with government spending and government

spending in Australia.

Yeah.

I mean, from COVID to now has been quite crazy, like both federal and every state, not just

New South Wales, every state.

Do you ever think to yourself, we are contributing?

Does that sort of play games on you?

It does.

And so my focus is making sure the investments and the government spending we're making doesn't

drive inflation.

So you've got to put the investments in the area that matters.

It's interesting, you know, during the pandemic, we invested as a state around $50 billion.

Now, about half that was in our health system.

Yeah.

And about half that was in providing support for small businesses and people to help get

them through.

What we noticed at the end of all of that coming into, and I think it's probably one

of the issues in relation to inflation, even when the Reserve Bank was increasing interest

rates to curb it, the savings rates were so high.

So even though inflation was rising and interest rates obviously trying to stem that, people

were still spending because they'd saved up a fair bit during that period.

And there was a lot of interest in that.

Yeah.

And there was a lot of government support.

But it's important that we invest where it matters.

So you look at some of those regional roads, so many have been impacted by floods.

Oh, totally.

Potholes everywhere.

The roads are in bad condition.

Yeah, they're shocking.

So these are the types of projects, I think, that don't have a significant impact on inflation

to a degree, but small projects working with council, put about half a billion dollars

into council so they could fix those potholes quickly, because that's a need, it's an important

need.

It's the same time that we just announced in regional New South Wales just a few weeks

ago up at the National Party launch, we put a billion dollars into regional roads, but

they need work.

So it's making sure as a premier, in every budget we do the same thing, that we're very

conscious of where those funds go.

People have said, for example, some of our voucher programs, is that potentially going

to help drive inflation?

Now I make very careful decisions in relation to where we actually put those funds to support

our families.

And so things like going back to school, where parents have to spend their money on school

shoes and school uniforms and textbooks, these are like necessities that everyone has to

do.

Well, then that's an area where we can put money in.

Playing kids sport, for example, our active kids vouchers are making sure that we help

parents with the cost of living.

But kids play sport, so it helps, and that's not really a big driver.

So the short answer to your question is yes, look at it and just make sure that spending

is not in areas where it's going to drive us down.

It's going to drive up inflation on areas that affect people's lives.

Dominic Perrottet, the treasurer, how different is he to Dominic Perrottet, the premier?

It's a good question.

It's a very different job.

It's a very different job.

As treasurer, you're very disciplined behind the scenes, and you learn about it.

I always made it my way of knowing more.

I tried to know more about the ministers.

Yeah.

I liked a lot about the treasurer's portfolio than they did.

When they would come in and ask for funds.

Which is what they do.

They bid.

That's what they do.

We have everything cause of cabinet and we have a committee that the treasurer chairs

called expenditure review committee.

They come in and they asked, and they asked for funds.

You need to make sure that those funds are going in the right outcome.

When you're a treasurer, it's a pretty lonely place to be.

You're not liked very much by your colleagues.

You're like the CFO of an organization.

You say no to everything.

You say no to everything.

And they've really got to provide a本当 comp.

이가.

an evidence-based approach to get the funding that they ask for.

And one thing I've always believed, which is something unique

about government compared to any other business,

is governments seem to measure success on the size of the spend

rather than the outcome that you're achieving.

It's almost like, oh, well, the education budget's at record highs

as if that's a good thing.

Could you imagine that with your household budget?

Well, we're going through a conversation right now

about defence federally.

Yes.

Exactly.

As if it's like an accolade.

Yeah.

It's not about the dollars need to be providing the outcome.

That's the most important aspect.

So then as Premier, look, Premier's different because you're very much

out there listening to people, understanding their concerns

right across the state, and you get a real sense of where concern

is on the ground, where the government can do more.

Right.

Because as Treasurer, you're kind of in the back office,

a little bit more disconnected from that.

What was the transition like for you, though?

What were the awkward moments?

I mean, did you – I remember watching you.

I thought, yeah, he's got to get used to this.

Yeah, it took a while.

Yeah, you kept referring to her as the Premier, by the way.

Yeah, I did.

I did, and I kept calling.

And when I was with the now Treasurer, Matt Cain, at events,

and I said, Treasurer, look, it took a while because I'd been Treasurer

for five years.

Yeah.

So that was kind of the title.

But look, it took some time to transition, but it was also straight

into it because I was in a bit of a natural place because we were opening

up New South Wales at the time from the pandemic, this was before Omicron.

So that was kind of my happy place.

Yeah, it was sort of October, November.

October, yeah.

And then we had Omicron.

Yeah.

And look, that was a bit difficult because I probably still had a very

Treasurer's mindset on the way I looked at and dealt with issues.

I mean, we always had a balanced approach to our crisis cabinet meetings

with Gladys and with Brad, Hazard.

And I think over through the pandemic, we got the balance mostly right.

But there was a bit of a transition period.

But I feel like over the last 18 months, I've grown into it more.

Like I've adjusted more to, which is the, you know,

being in the office.

Yeah.

Being in the front of the government, being responsible for every decision.

I mean, that's a thing.

When you're Treasurer and we were in those crisis cabinet meetings,

we'd have different views.

You know, Brad might think something, Glad thinks something,

and I had a view.

Ultimately, we thrashed it all out and then Glad went out.

She made the call.

And she made the call, right?

And when you go from being Treasurer to Premier,

you're now in that position, well, okay,

I'm responsible.

You know, I'll listen to the, yeah, but same situation as Glad's in.

I'll listen to the concerns, the different views around the table.

Ultimately, it's my call.

If it goes well, great.

If it doesn't, ultimately, I'm responsible for that decision.

Do you think therefore having been Treasurer, that helps you do that?

Because, you know, I remember when Morrison was a Prime Minister,

he went from Treasurer to Prime Minister and Josh became the Treasurer.

And I do recall,

I know, I can see, I don't know if they watch you,

but I do recall some conflict on budgets.

Oh, definitely.

And, you know, Scott was tough on spending.

Yeah.

Josh was a little bit more open-minded.

Yeah.

Yeah, if you know what I mean.

And which is sort of the flip side of what it normally is,

but I always put it down to the fact that Scott was the Treasurer

and he was very conscious of not overspending in terms of, you know,

deficits.

Well, he was a surplus.

He was always looking for surpluses.

Different territory, different time, during COVID, et cetera.

I understand that.

Do you think that you have the right tension in your party

between Matt Coon as Treasurer and yourself as Premier?

Yes.

I mean, Matt, a good Treasurer is always worried about the budget position.

And in the five years I was in that role, you know,

we were in good times at the start and we were delivering big surpluses,

billions of surpluses.

And even then, I was very strong on the financial management

and making sure expense growth was under control.

That actually helped us during those difficult times of drought, fires,

floods, and the pandemic to be able to deploy because the state's balance sheet

and the financial position of the budget was in a really strong position.

During that period of time, though, I realised the importance of ensuring

that we continue to invest to drive good social outcomes.

So it was all about, well, where do you want to spend?

What is the direction of the government?

Now, my expectation with Matt, which he does,

is he's being very fiscally disciplined to get the budget back in a surplus by 24, 25.

So we're all on the same page with that.

On the way through, though, it depends.

You look at, okay, well, where do we see the government priorities?

My job as Premier is to set the priorities.

For the government, the Treasurer's job is to find a way to fund them,

but in a way that makes sense and keeps the budget in a strong position.

And I think that tension between a Premier and Treasurer is a positive one,

and it's something that I think we've worked well on together.

The other thing I'd say about Treasury, which I came to the view,

is Treasury very much focused on the budget.

So Treasury advice, very budget focused.

They need to have...

They need to have a broader perspective on the economy

and where are the areas of investing that's going to help drive economic growth.

And so I think a couple of years into becoming Treasurer,

I appointed a Chief Economist in New South Wales.

We appointed a Productivity Commissioner

to really get Treasury to have a broader perspective.

Strategically.

Strategically.

Then just simply the budget management.

If all of Treasury is focused on doing one thing,

and that's keeping expenses under control,

and delivering a balanced budget, which is important,

but not having a broader outlook on the state's economy

and headwinds coming our way,

then I don't think we get the best outcomes.

So by the time I got to the end of the time in Treasury,

it would be great because we would sit down with the members in the team,

and there'd be different views from the economics team to the financial team.

And I think that's kind of the best...

That's how you put up a really strong Treasury.

And I think that, again, has a view of, well,

yes, we're going to spend in certain areas,

and here's maybe what the envelope is,

but the economics guys would sit there and say,

well, here's the best use of those funds to keep driving economic growth

and provide jobs into the future.

So I can bring a board of directors.

Can I just ask you, I want to talk to you about Dominic Boutte, the guy, the man.

Yeah.

You've got a lot of kids.

Yeah.

You've got a big family, seven kids.

Seven kids, yeah.

Youngest one is how old?

Turning one tomorrow.

Okay.

Awesome.

And your oldest child?

Thirteen.

Thirteen.

How the hell do you manage, I just remember when I had four kids,

that was bad enough, but how do you manage your schedule?

Not at the moment because it's a bit unusual at the moment,

but just as Premier, how do you manage your schedule

and manage home life?

It's tough.

It's tough.

So and if you ask, you know, what was the kind of transition,

this was a real difficult issue for me to kind of get on top of

because it's so consuming, this job, and I've got to make sure

that when I'm at work, every minute is going towards outcome.

And then when I go home, making sure that I'm spending my time

as switched off as I can from work and being focused on the kids.

Now this might sound unusual, but this is just something

that works for me and that's really scheduling time in.

And so I make sure that I have a date night with my wife

every Monday night, non-negotiable.

Mind you, we did miss it last week, but we are in a, as you say,

unusual time.

Do they accumulate?

Does that mean she gets a Monday and Tuesday night?

No, she'll get a payback, yes.

But, you know, that's always off and my phone is off

and my office know that on a Monday night, so that's locked.

And then doing things with the kids where I take them out individually

so they've got their own special time with me.

But it's still a challenge.

You know, the expectation in these jobs is that you're on 24-7.

And that means, I guess, to some degree, some people get a little bit unhappy

that you're not getting back to them straight away.

But I've got to make sure that, you know, ultimately I'm a father

and a husband before being a Premier.

That's my ultimate responsibility.

And if you ask me what's the most important job for me,

it's being a good father, it's being a great husband.

And, you know, that's not.

That's not easy and we all, you know, we can all do better in that.

I'm like everybody else.

But if I get that right, then, you know, the job looks after itself.

But the other thing is events.

You know, I find that hard because there's an expectation now

almost like that you go to so many events at night and on weekends.

I try and clear weekends as much as possible.

And that is hard.

One way I got around that is you have ministers who can represent you

and I always, in the office,

I'll do a pre-recorded voice message, a video message.

Yeah.

So that gets shown at the events.

And they appreciate that.

But I guess, you know, it's hard because the expectation is from the community

and from ministers that you're around all the time.

But you can't do, you literally can't do both.

You've got to find a way of doing it.

There's not much in it between you and the Leader of Opposition, Chris Minns.

There's sort of neck and neck totally.

And in a lot of ways, it's similar to you.

I mean, there's.

This is not your normal, the Opposition Leader hates the Premier

and the Premier hates the Opposition Leaders,

or the Liberal Party hates Labour.

Actually, he seems to be quite a decent person and he speaks well of you.

Yeah, I speak well of him.

And you speak well of him.

And you have sort of similar backgrounds, you know, Catholic kids growing up,

went to Catholic schools, nice families, the whole thing.

There's a lot of similarity between the two of you.

He's not as well known as you because you're the Premier

and have been the Treasurer.

That's the front line.

I mean, standing there during COVID all the time, sort of nodding your head

when the Premier was speaking at the time, along with the Police Commissioner,

that sort of, it helps your brand.

Yeah.

Your brand got built quickly.

His is nowhere near as built.

Do you think he'd be in for a shock?

Do you think he's ready for what you've experienced?

I don't think anyone can appreciate how hard and challenging this job is

unless you're in it.

You just don't.

And the hardest time in this job was both as Premier and Treasurer

during that pandemic and, you know, the stress that you're under

because you feel the weight of the decisions that you're making.

As Treasurer, every job loss weighed incredibly heavily on me

and I needed to get them all back.

It is a high-pressure job that's incredibly challenging.

And I don't think you get a sense of that.

From opposition, you see question time and you see a press conference.

That's such a small part of the job that you don't really, I guess,

understand until you're in it.

But once you're in it, you adjust and you learn

and good politicians do well in those environments.

I come from a similar background to you in terms of schooling, et cetera.

Yeah.

And, in fact, we have friends in common.

Yeah.

So much these days.

But there was a period of persistent throwing at your feet your beliefs,

your faith.

Yeah.

Hasn't been so much on the agenda actually during this campaign.

I haven't seen much of it.

How have you managed to deal with that?

Because for me, I see you as having sort of mellowed into the role of Premier.

You seem to be much more open to everyone's ideas.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As opposed to.

As opposed to what I think, I thought you might have been as Treasurer

coming into the Premiership position.

Has that been a difficult process for you or as,

and have you had any guidance or mentorship around that or do you just,

is this just Dominic Perrottet adjusting, adjusting, adjusting,

adjusting to be the person that New South Wales expects him to be?

Yeah.

My job, my job as Premier is to look after every person of that,

across New South Wales.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm the leader of every single person from metropolitan Sydney right across

to regional areas of the state and you represent all of them and you need to do

that well and there are different views and different perspectives.

I've probably learnt in the time around Cabinet to listen to different views

and ultimately then form the view that I believe we should take forward.

But during, you know, I've had, and my,

my views have changed over time on things as well.

Like you get different perspectives, you get different perspectives when you have children.

Your, your views constantly change.

You're not, it's not like a set and forget situation.

Like you, you naturally evolve as a person, your ideas change and I've always been someone

who wants to look at new ways of doing things to challenge the status quo and that really drives me.

And I think to some degree that, but you know, people, I think from the starts it had a very kind of

strong view about who I was and, and what I believed in based on, I think from being treasurer

for five years, I've probably had a perspective in relation to my views on being pretty tough

on the finances of the state and, and, and areas there.

But faith, I mean, you raise faith.

Well, faith is something that's personal, that's personal to me.

But it's, it's something that I thought at the start, it was a bit, the criticism was a bit,

unfair.

I mean, I, I hadn't, kind of ever had that sense of criticism on something that was personal to me in my entire life.

I'd never experienced that kind of sectarianism that, that, that I felt was, was there at the time.

But I think as I've been in the job, people have sat there going, huh.

It's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not, it's not an issue.

But, and we've got so many people of different faiths in our, in our society.

That's a good thing.

It's a great thing.

I, I love our multicultural country.

I love the fact that there are people with different views.

That's something that we should celebrate.

People pigeonholing other people and saying, oh, well, you, you can't hold those views.

Like, well, no, no, you can.

And you can, you know what else?

You can respect that too.

And I respect you for having a different view.

Uh, and, uh, and that's something I think that I, I've really started to enjoy a lot more in this role, particularly in those, in, in those discussions where you have different views.

You, you, you know.

You need to take other people's views on board and think about it and critically think about it.

It helps challenge it, challenge the way that you look at an issue.

Um, and I try and do that.

You know, what, why are you saying that?

What's your perspective?

How are you coming to that, to that view on, on, on that issue?

And if you can't convince your cabinet.

Not too long ago, running a business looked a lot different.

A good location and a solid reputation were enough to keep a customer base happy.

No websites.

No social media, no SEO, just old school networking and persistence, of course, but times have changed.

In today's digital world, your business needs more than just a great product.

It needs visibility.

That's where Squarespace comes in.

Whether you're just getting started or expanding your brand, it's the all-in-one platform that makes building and managing your online presence simple.

With Blueprint AI, creating a professional, customized website takes just a few clicks.

Plus, powerful tools like.

Automated client invoicing, online courses, and memberships help you generate revenue effortlessly.

So you can focus on growing your business instead of juggling logistics.

Head to squarespace.com forward slash mentored for a free trial.

And when you're ready to launch, use offer code mentored, M-E-N-T-O-R-E-D, to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain.

Ever wonder what your lashes are destined for?

The cards have spoken.

Maybelline New York Mascara does it all.

Whether you crave fully fan lashes with Lash Sensational, big, bold volume from the Colossal, a dramatic lift with Falsies Lash Lift, or natural-looking volume from Great Lash, your perfect lash future awaits.

Manifest your best mascara today.

Shop Maybelline New York and discover your lash destiny.

Shop now at Walmart.

My colleagues, if you can't convince your party room, you certainly won't be able to convince the public that doing something is right.

But then, you know, other times, that doesn't mean you don't have conviction.

I'll give you an example of this.

Gaming reform.

Moving to cashless gaming in New South Wales.

And I think when I probably had one member in cabinet who, when I wanted to go down this path, supported it.

Everyone was very, very concerned about the political backlash.

The lobby.

Yeah, the lobby, right?

So I knew I was starting from a long way back.

But if you start with the principle that we have a problem, and the approach that we needed to go was the right approach, then the question is, how do you take people on the journey?

And you do things in a way over time that makes people feel comfortable, then you can get the right policy outcome.

By the time we landed on getting to a point where we'd have all poker machines cashless by 2028, I had a unanimous cabinet.

Every single person supported that policy.

Now, in the party room, the first one, when you go all the way back then, it was, you know, it wasn't great.

There was, you know, there was a lot of concern at that time.

But now, members who were concerned and opposed it then, now come up to me when I'm out in their seats and say, hey, that position, it's really popular.

It's really popular on the ground.

It's like, well, that's great.

You don't do things because they're popular.

But it just shows you take people on the journey.

You listen.

And then you've got conviction.

I think you can take, you can get to the right outcome.

I think it's just a systemic thing.

But it's harder, perception-wise, to trust government.

You know, because I think people, it doesn't matter, of any persuasion I'm talking about, whether it's here or America, wherever it is, there is just a view that it's hard to trust government.

Some people are upset about COVID.

It was very divisive.

Lots of things have happened over the time.

How does Dominic Perrottet?

Apart from saying, trust me.

But how do you build trust in the eyes of people in New South Wales?

How is the best way for governments to try and resurrect the trust, say, I had in the New South Wales when I was, you know, 21?

Because we just respect it automatically.

I think the best way is to be open and as genuine as possible.

When you make a mistake, you just own up to it.

And I think if you say you've got something wrong, people will appreciate it.

If you say a project is under pressure and is being delayed, you don't hide that.

You just come out and you say, look, here is the problem.

Here is the problem we've got.

Here's why.

Now, that might not make you happy, but here's why.

And if you do more of that and you're upfront and honest with people, then I think over time that builds.

I agree, Mark.

There's something.

My starting position is people don't like government and politicians and don't trust them.

But my job is to kind of build that up.

And I say if you're open and transparent and honest, I think because we know we all make mistakes.

We're not perfect.

And if you do that, I think that helps build that trust in the community.

People are always, you know, not everyone's going to agree with you and that's okay.

But you get to a point where people go, well, I disagree with him on a whole lot of things, but I agree with him on that.

And that's okay.

Do you think Dominic Perrottet and the Liberal Party and the Nationals, the coalition, are in a good position in terms of trust relative to this election coming up?

Do you think it's where you want it to be?

Because you come off the back, unfortunately.

I mean, unfortunately, when you're in government, this has happened to the Labour Party a long time ago, many years ago, pre you guys.

Yeah.

You come off the back of people making mistakes.

And, you know, we've had, unfortunately, Barilaro's dramas.

We've had, you know, Gladys had.

Her issues, et cetera.

It's a tough gig for you.

Yeah, it builds up.

Yeah.

We've been in government for 12 years.

Yeah.

But is New South Wales a better place today than it was 12 years ago?

I believe so.

I think you're probably right.

Yeah.

And, you know, all of the schools and the hospitals that we've built, navigating our people through a pandemic,

the motorways that are under construction across New South Wales, the metro trains, all of these things,

I think builds a much better state.

And I got into politics for a good time to make a difference, to come in and make a difference.

Not a long time.

And I think that's what I'm, I want to make a real contribution why I'm here.

And every four years, there's a performance appraisal.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's how I see it.

And I want to make a difference for the state.

And I believe with my team, the Liberals and the Nationals, yes, we haven't got everything right.

That's only natural after being in government for 12 years.

But I think we've got the big decisions right.

And I think the ideas, the energy and the experience that my team has will ensure that New South Wales keeps moving forward in a positive way,

that we keep the economy growing, that we keep creating jobs, that we build the infrastructure to make a difference to people's lives

and ultimately do what we all want.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's what drives me every day.

And that's what drives me every day.

I'm going to put a full stop right there because I think it's appropriate.

Premier, good luck.

Thanks, Mark.

Cheers.

Chris Mints, welcome to Straight Talk, mate.

Thanks, Mark.

Must be extraordinarily busy for you during this campaign.

Like crazy.

Yeah, big hours and long days, but mainly it's exciting.

And because you get to meet a lot of people, you get energy from them

because, you know, they live interesting lives.

So you do meet a lot of people and travel long distances.

But for some reason, we've got extra reserves of energy.

Yeah, you'll probably be like that ever-ready battery though at some stage.

Hopefully it's after the election.

Yeah.

And hopefully it's when you win the election.

Like, you know, like I can't imagine what it would be like.

You've got your wife, your kids, your supporters, your colleagues,

your whole team.

The build-up of, not anxiety, the build-up of expectations

to that one night when you're standing there and you either concede

or you take the honours.

Have you thought about that?

I have a bit.

I mean, generally speaking, I've decided to just put it out of my mind,

anything beyond the 26th of March.

And the reason for that is it's just it feels too far away.

And I know I've got, like, for example,

tomorrow we've got a television debate with Perrottet

and I've got a television debate with Perrottet.

And I've got media interviews and I've got policies to release.

So anything like three weeks away, I'm not even thinking about it.

I'm just trying to do one bit at a time.

Exactly right.

So I do want to ask you a little bit later about the machine that sort of sits around you.

Because, you know, these aren't sort of something that you just playfully go about your day

and it's all well-organised, orchestrated, strategised, tactics, the whole thing.

I do want to talk about that because most people never hear about that sort of stuff.

100%.

But before I do that.

You know, in front of me is a, relatively speaking, compared to me, a young man who's gone from...

I'm not in as good nick as you are.

I don't know about that, man.

Who knows what's going on on the inside, though.

But a relatively young man, I'm saying.

You know, you are.

And you haven't been on the scene for a long time.

Sure.

And if I go back, cast right back to when you're a kid who was a Cogger boy.

Yep.

Morris Brothers.

That's it.

You did your early years in Penzurst, one of the Catholic schools around that territory.

Mum and dad's still alive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How many kids in your family?

I've got an older sister and a younger brother.

Yep.

Yeah.

So you've got, come from a family, did you grow up in Cogger itself?

Grew up in Penzurst.

Penzurst, yeah.

And so always been in the St. George region.

My wife and I lived in America for a bit, but mainly living in St. George.

My kids.

Go to the same school I went to.

And we're from a very close family.

So every week, my parents put on dinner for my siblings, girlfriends, boyfriends, best

mates, drop-ins, all the cousins, every single week.

Old school.

Every Wednesday night, they get together at my parents' house and it's a big sort of tub

of spaghetti or tacos or something like that.

Something's easy.

And everybody turns up.

Now, I'm absent a lot lately.

But my kids grow up with their cousins as if they're all my siblings.

It's a big rolling kind of family.

And I was from that too, Mark.

Like at Penzurst, Marist and Cogger, Marist, I had a cousin in the year above.

I had a cousin in the year below.

I've got a ton of first cousins just sort of spread over southern Sydney.

So because that, I mean, Marist was a Catholic thing.

So, and, you know, your opposition, Perrottet, gets hammered a lot because of, you know,

his religious beliefs.

Probably because they tend.

They try to put him in this Opus Dei thing and the extremism of Catholic, et cetera.

But let's just park that for a second.

No one ever talks about Chris's, Chris Minzer's beliefs or his faith.

I don't hear you talk about it much.

How important is faith?

Like just generally.

I don't mean in an extreme sense, but just how important is faith?

Because obviously your family is a family of faith or would expect.

It is, yeah.

Like my mum.

My mum's Irish Catholic.

Church every Sunday.

Yeah.

No matter what.

Her whole life.

Sure.

Never missed a day.

You know, and unfortunately I was, I started missing days and she didn't, wasn't happy

about it.

But I know how that works.

There's no extremism, though.

It's just, it's just our culture.

Yeah.

Explain it.

Yeah.

It's a bit of, I mean, it is a culture.

It is.

I grew up in, my parents are still practicing Catholics.

One of the things that we found with our kids in particular is how do you get them to be

part?

Like to live their life, not just for themselves, because everything that they turn on with

television and everything they read is all about consumerism and buying and getting ahead

for yourself.

And you kind of want to open them up to the idea that living life is actually about, you

know, doing as much as you can for your community and for others.

And I've found that the church is great for that because it's, its main story isn't about

look after number one all the time, every time.

It's about, you know, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do this.

And it's about other people in particular, you know, the poor and less well off.

So I think, you know, it gets a bad rap, but it's been important for us.

And my wife and I, I mean, look, we're not, I don't come here and become a big evangelist

for it.

It's a personal thing and it's a family thing for us, but it is part of our life.

And you said we should park Dominic Perrottet's faith.

We should.

You know, he's been upfront about it, but I don't see too many people going to make

a decision about who they're voting for based on his religion or mine.

Yeah.

And it's funny because I heard you getting interviewed.

I think it was Ben.

I don't know if it was Ben Fordham, but I heard you getting interviewed by Ben Fordham

and you just said it's not right that people call out his, Perrottet's religion as a reason

not to vote for him or a reason to vote for you.

I mean, it's, and I agree, it just doesn't make any sense.

I mean, someone's got faith, you've got faith, no big deal.

Yeah.

And we've got faith in different things.

We can't say one religion is better than another, is, you know, Muslim better than Jewish, better

than Catholic, better than Protestant, whatever, Buddhism, whatever the hell.

Who cares?

Yeah.

If the person's got a faith, leave it alone and just, just leave it there.

And it does, it does.

It does exercise in my mind though, this sense of family.

Yeah.

So how important, you just mentioned, you know, your parents hold a function every Wednesday

night where everybody's invited.

How important is family to you?

Because I think it's important that I understand, I'd like to understand anyway, what drives

Chris Minns at the end of the day?

Because sometimes you're going to have to make value judgments on decisions.

Yep.

And I'd like to know, is family an important part of that decision-making process?

It is, it's very, very important.

And it's funny when, when you become leader of a political party, you don't generally as

a member of the public or even a politician get asked about what motivates you or what,

what, you know, what, what seminal events happen in your life.

So you don't think about it very often really.

Yeah.

But it made me think about my own upbringing and the world that I grew up in, which was

in Southern Sydney.

And it was just this very loving family home.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I remember my mom telling me the other day, she's a lawyer and she was a legal secretary

at Freehills in the city where it used to be called Freehills.

The big law firm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The big law firm.

We've all used them.

We've had them against us, unfortunately.

That's right.

Anyway, her old man said to her, why don't you become a lawyer?

Like, I don't understand, you know, you don't have to be, you don't, if you don't want to

be a legal secretary, you can be a lawyer.

Why don't you go to night school and become a lawyer and we'll back you and we'll support

you?

Yeah.

He was a firefighter and he was, as a result, he was a shift worker, so mom went to law

school.

at night, got a degree, got qualified, opened a law firm in Oatley. And my grandfather was

her receptionist. Really?

Yeah. Just answered the phone and set up. Anyway, then her brother wanted a career change. He became

a lawyer, joined the firm. The younger brother joined the firm. Cousins joined the firm. Still

going, still in operation. My cousins run it now. But my mom's name's still on the door. And

beautiful story. And the boys, my uncles ran the firm when mom went off and actually rejoined

another firm in the city. But they kept her name on the door, like C-E, Caroline Elizabeth.

And the reason was because they liked clients thinking it was the old man that started the

firm, not the older sister.

It's called marketing. But was that an inspiration? Is that a source of inspiration to you?

I think the idea that the world's open to you. Like, you know,

you're...

You're really going to be... You could be self-directed. And if you want to change your

circumstances, we live in this wonderful country with a world-class education system. Just go for

it. Grasp the needle and go for it. I do think sometimes you need someone. And there's a big

distinction between getting a kick in the ass and have someone see something in you that you didn't

see in yourself. And all of a sudden, as soon as you get that confidence for a lot of people,

you're off to the races. And I know that's my psychology as well.

Has that happened to you though? So,

do you feel as though, you know, was one of the Labor, let's say, the Labor Party faithful

or someone sort of said, Chris, I'm not effectively anointing you, but I'm telling you, you can

become the leader of this party and one day become the Premier of this state. Did you...

Was there anyone in the Labor movement who actually put their hand on your shoulder,

you know, not literally, but and said, mate, I think you can do this?

Oh, look...

Or was it your parents? I mean, who was it?

Yeah, I think...

The internal party politics are tough. And the funny thing about politics is often the

competition occurs inside your own organisation. So, it's a bit of a... Sometimes it's a bit of

a Spartan existence. And I've had some very close mates that I've gone through my time in politics

with. Steve Camper, who's a member for Rockdale, he's a very, very close friend. Rose Jackson,

who's in the upper house. Like we, you know, Joe,

Halen, who's a shadow transport minister. We kind of all got elected at the same time

and we're all on the back benches together and got together as a... I wouldn't say a group,

but we were close mates. And because you have a lot of setbacks and we haven't won an election

in 16 years in New South Wales, we kind of needed each other to give a boost of confidence or,

you know, say that it's possible.

So, it's really your contemporaries.

Yeah.

They give you the, let's call it the momentum to do what you're doing.

Particularly when we're on the outs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because, you know, for a big chunk of this, I wasn't leader of the party and, you know,

we weren't considered, you know, in some time, at different points we've been persona non grata,

you know.

Well, unfortunately, Labor Party state, going back 15, 16 years, sort of went into self-destruct

mode. I mean, we had some terrible moments.

Yes.

I mean, and, you know, we don't get reminded of them very much anymore. In fact, you know,

Gladys has just sort of gone through it herself.

Yeah.

As the...

As the performer leader and, you know, in relation to her relationship. And that has

affected the Liberal Party. How does someone like Chris Minns, when he's putting his hand

up, how do you think about what went down during the, the Obeids and all that sort of

stuff? I mean, do you think to yourself, I've got to make a difference and I've got to make

sure that shit never happens again?

Yep. First one, acknowledge it. Like, don't, don't try and sweep it under the rug or say

to people, I don't know what you're talking about or that was a long time ago. Like, acknowledge

it straight up. It was appalling behavior.

Yeah. And we breached the public's trust and the people that did the wrong thing deserved

to have the book thrown at them. So that's number one. Because you don't even get to

first... A, it's true. And B, I won't even get to first base in this election campaign

unless I admit and acknowledge that it was shocking behavior. We've got ICAC in New South

Wales. It's an important institution. Mark, I reckon ICAC being in operation in New South

Wales actually stops a lot of corruption before it even begins because a lot of people go,

you know,

you know, people make bad decisions, particularly people in power. And sometimes it's venal

decisions. But if you're concerned about a cop on the beat that's always there, maybe

it'll tip you into doing the right thing. So we want to make sure it's properly funded

and independently funded. And...

Is that like an election part of your campaign?

Yeah, it is. It's a campaign commitment.

So take me through that then. What does that mean?

Yeah, so at the moment, if you talk to different commissioners going back, they'll say, we've

got a budget, but investigations come, I don't want to say in fits and styles.

But they might come in waves. So there might be three or four major inquiries that they

need to take place in one year. They've only got funding for one or two. So they've gone

in the past to government and said, we need more funding. We've spotted more corruption

might be in local government or in the state government, but we can only do this one inquiry.

So we're going to set up a structure where they can apply through the ICAC, the Inspector

General to apply for more funds and therefore receive them almost like an emergency.

Grant so they can conduct more inquiries.

At the time, at the time that there's something in front of them.

In real time.

As opposed to being stuck with a budget and that's as much as you can spend.

Sorry, that's it. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's all we're going to do.

So you're trying to, part of your campaign is building some flex in how you fund inquiries

so that a budget doesn't stop an inquiry where it's warranted.

That's right. And the other thing is, and I'm not inferring this with the current government,

I genuinely not, but you could have a situation in the future where a government says, the

ICAC says, well, we need to conduct more inquiries.

And they know bad things are going on and they say, they say, sorry, money's dried up

knowing that they don't necessarily want people in their organisation poking around.

So we can't have that situation, you know.

So could you just explain to me as a voter, why is that important to me?

So, I mean, I understand the philosophy of it, but I'm in business, you know, I've got

all the business pressures in the world.

I'm just pitching myself as an individual perhaps.

Why would that be important to me?

Explain.

Take me through that.

Take me to why that's an important aspect of all your campaigns.

Yeah.

I mean, look, in the first instance, integrity in public office is really important because

if people all of a sudden regard that there's no rules in place, there's no scrutiny, there's

no oversight, well, you end up having the worst examples around the world of kleptocracies

where someone comes in and basically robs the joint blind.

In a more practical way, if you're a taxpayer in New South Wales, you're saying all this

integrity corruption stuff, it's your money.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

New South Wales is the biggest taxing government, the highest taxing government of any jurisdiction

in the entire country.

So, we collect a lot of dough from you as an individual.

And if it's being manipulated, either siphoned off to private companies or pork barreled

into a particular electorate, or it's not being used to the benefit of the state, but

personal, the personal benefit of an individual, well, I mean, you can just imagine no one's

handing it over for corrupt use.

So, I think everybody's got a personal...

Personal financial stake in corruption.

Because if you look at longitudinal studies about when corruption gets into the marrow

of a government or a society, it ends up ripping off taxpayers.

You know, if it's a personal financial motive, that's one of them.

Yeah, that's very interesting because I think you might be hitting on, from my side of the

table, a really important point.

It's about trust.

Yeah.

And do we trust the government?

And we've been through COVID and a lot of people mistrust the government as a result of that.

Yeah.

As a result of things we're told to do.

And obviously, there's errors made and judgments having to be made at the, you know, where

situations occur that have never, you know, occurred before.

And we have to make calls.

People have to make calls.

And we saw it at the federal level, also at the state level.

And as a result of that, I think there is a general change in the way we view government.

When I was a young guy, government was government, like they were gods.

But over time, we started to realize that they're human too, because it's made up of

individuals and they make mistakes.

So, at a minimum, we don't...

We don't want to make repeating mistakes, or at a minimum, we don't want them being dishonest.

Yeah.

You know, because you've been watching this stuff from the sidelines to some extent.

Yeah.

Now you're the leader, though, of the opposition.

How important is it re-establishing trust for Chris Minns as a leader of this state?

I think it's all important.

And you've really hit the nail on the head.

And when it comes to government in New South Wales or Australia, trust is so crucial because,

as we rely on the government to provide services to the state, but we also want them to make

their best judgment.

And if all of a sudden, the people believe that that best judgment's being compromised

or that there's malignant influences on it, financial or corrupt or otherwise, then they're

not going to trust the government to do or act in the best interest.

Now, the biggest and best lever we've got in this country is democracy.

Throw them out.

And that's important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And if you look at countries around the world where there isn't democracy, there are higher

rates of corruption and malfeasance in their administrations.

So that's number one.

There are also important levers that we've got, parliamentary democracy and all the rest

of it.

Look, my experience, it's a funny thing, right?

I used to live in America for a bit.

Australians are a lot more sceptical, somewhat cynical about politicians. You know what I mean?

And they are not, they don't treat politicians like gods and they shouldn't. Absolutely not

because it's just made up of humans who make mistakes. But the funny thing is I can probably

count on one hand the number of times I've copped an abuse or an earful from someone in the public.

Like they're going to put you on a short leash, Australians. They're going to demand that you act

in their best interest. But generally speaking, most Aussies want their governments to succeed

and they want the state to do well. Like there's not that massive cleavage in society that you see

in America or in England or in other places. Like most people in this country are Australians

before they're supporters of the Labor Party or Liberal Party. I think that's starting to be the

opposite in places around the world. Just sitting in that chair a couple

of years ago, I was talking to a guy who was a member of the Labor Party and he said,

was Morrison. And just before the election, which he lost and Albo won. And one of the things,

my observation, and it's turned out to be the case, is that Morrison came across as not someone

you could trust. I'm not saying you could or you couldn't. I'm just saying came across that way

as it turned out. And also Albanese came across as someone very likable, which is quite interesting

and I first met you, I'm sorry, you were having a cup of coffee with somebody. And the first

instinct that I came, that I said to a mate of mine, well, he seems like a pretty good bloke,

like pretty likable. And that sort of helps me trust someone a lot better. For some reason,

there's a likability about you. Is that Chris Minns really the dude or is that Chris Minns?

Because there was no election call when I met you. Yeah, of course. You were the opposition,

the guy, a little opposition. And you just said, here you go, Mark, blah, blah. Here's my number,

you want to talk to me, whatever. Nothing in it, no agenda, no big deal. And I was like,

that's pretty unusual. Like openness, a certain openness, which you don't get in politics today.

I don't see it very much. But Dominic, maybe he's not as open as you are.

I don't know. I mean, look, there's a bit in that. I think the first thing is I was always taught

to take the job seriously. And I do take it really seriously, but I don't take myself too seriously.

And I don't think...

I don't think you can really be a working politician and have some high and mighty view

of yourself. Because the journos bash you up and members of the public tell it to you straight.

And all of a sudden, if you've got some lofty view of yourself, you're inflated by the end of

the day. So I like engaging with people. It's not my style to come in all high and mighty and tell

you how to run your business or explain the ins and outs of everything. We try and approach the

election campaign in a hungry...

Hungry but humble way. And I always say that to my candidates. Be hungry but humble.

Show the voters that you want it. Like you want the job. Give it to me. It's like an employee

talking to the manager. The manager in this instance is other voters. So you want to go

to them and say, give me work, give me work. I want to do the extra hours. But you've got to

be humble about it too. So that's our motto, our sort of not public but internal motto for the

election campaign, hungry but humble. And I think that's a reflection a bit of my personality,

or at least I hope it is. And I think that's probably one of the great things about Australia

is that you can have political leaders where you can see the prime minister walking down the street

and it's not a big deal. I've got a mate who's a former world surfing champion named Rusty Miller

and he lives in Byron. And if anyone from Byron up there, they'd know Rusty. And he said, left

America during the Vietnam War, surfing around the world. Ended up staying in Byron Bay because

he was walking down the street. And he said, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't

know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And he

was walking down the street and Gough Whitlam was walking the other way. And he was by himself,

no media, no security guards. And he goes, how good's a country where the PM can just be walking

down the street? And he goes, that's it. I'm calling Australia home. And he's been here for

sort of 40 years. He's American? Yeah, he's American. Yeah. Well, that is very Australian.

My gut feeling, my sense is that you're sort of very representative of Australia. I mean,

the way you dress. I mean, I don't know, you just, you're sort of cutting a pretty good figure,

relatively speaking, being approachable, open.

I think you build that trust thing pretty well.

But I guess also on top of that, though, we need to know about your policies.

Sure.

So policies during election campaigns seem to be getting dropped every day.

Like we're going to spend money and this is going to spend money and that.

And it's a bit of a, and I say it's a bit of a gamesmanship going on there.

So what are the maybe three or four things that a state led by you

under a Labor Party, what are the, say, four or five things

that you are going to make sure you change in New South Wales?

Yeah, okay.

So, I mean, I'll run through a couple of them

and then I want to speak about one in the end,

which I think is important, which is financial management.

So number one, we're going to put a toll cap in place,

tolls particularly for tradies and those that live in Western.

That's a big deal.

Massive.

Massive.

I've spoken to families that pay five grand a year,

six grand a year in tolls.

We're the most tolled city on the face of the earth.

So $60 toll cap put in place.

Secondly, we want to bring back domestic manufacturing

and that means investing in vocational education.

In 2010, 2011, it was about 52, 53,000 apprenticeships that year.

We're down to about 24, 25,000.

Now the skilled economy, particularly in the building industry,

is at record lows.

You just can't find tradies.

And I've got this view growing up in the suburbs in Sydney

that if you get to a point where you've got vocational education,

people can get a trade, they can get an apprenticeship,

that's the government's role in part.

But after that's over, you want to just slap them on the back

and go, go for it.

Start your own business, back yourself,

and eventually you'll employ your own apprentices

and the cycle starts all over again.

So we're committed to that.

We think we've got to build up vocational education.

If you look at Germany and Singapore,

who've got low,

low tariffs and have got free barriers effectively

with the rest of the world when it comes to trade,

they all put a lot of emphasis and time and energy

into that kind of education.

Is that about building TAFE up then as the educational institution

to do this trade work for you?

In part, but we also want to make sure that we're working with,

for example, train builders.

We've been building trains in New South Wales for 120 years.

We've been importing them a lot over the last 12 years

in New South Wales, but they keep breaking down.

And there's a way of doing it where you've got good,

well-paid jobs and a growing economy.

But I think skills are a big part of it.

And that's part, I think Labor does skills really well.

And I think it fits nicely with a growing economy

where you've got good, well-paid jobs.

That's two.

That's two.

What I did want to speak to you about is debt in New South Wales.

As in government debt?

Government debt.

So we've got about $180 billion worth of gross debt in the state.

Wow.

Which is over 20% of GSP.

When the government was elected, it was about 30.

I think it was even less than that.

Not 30% of GSP, it was about $30 billion.

So the interest on that debt's about $6.8 billion a year.

Now that's on the recurrent side of the budget,

which means you've got to find that money every single year.

It doesn't matter what happens with the debt levels,

that interest has to be paid off.

So if you keep adding to that in sort of an infinitum way,

the interest bill increases.

And we've identified a lot of,

spending from the government.

I was out today talking about belt tightening,

making choices about where governments spend money.

Because we know we've got to put it into essential services,

but I can't have a situation where debt runs out of control,

particularly with the high interest rate environment

because it just becomes more expensive to service the debt.

So in terms of, and what about small businesses?

You talk about tradies, and I think that's a great one,

or apprentices for tradies,

and then those apprentices become tradies and employ more apprentices.

But what about small business?

So small business in Australia, New South Wales,

but every state, particularly New South Wales,

has been smashed as a result of COVID.

Are you guys thinking, and traditionally,

Labor doesn't think about this.

I mean, I'm not having a crack at you,

but that's just a traditional Labor thing.

But what is Labor thinking, or what's your party thinking about,

how do we help these small business owners out?

I mean, you just announced the toll thing.

That cap on the tolls is a really big deal.

Because, by the way, small businesses, at least of the 2.2 million small business owners,

we've got a lot of small business owners,

we've got a lot of small business owners, we've got a lot of small business owners,

we've got a lot of small business owners in Australia,

1.2 million of them are one-off tradies, electricians, contractors.

All of them are out in Leamington,

and they're driving to, I don't know, Cronulla or something like that,

and they've got to go through tolls, and they're paying a fortune.

There's a big blow-up.

So that's a good one.

What other things are going through your mind about how do I help small business owners?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, one of the big things we need to do,

and we're going to establish, is a small business bureau.

Steve Camper, a member for Rockdale, talked about him earlier,

started with his brother and his old man,

in an accounting business.

We've actually recruited quite a few business people

with a small business background as candidates,

which are not from traditional backgrounds for candidates for the Labor Party,

but we all decided that we wanted to have a more rounded group of people

who are going to put their hand up for Labor

from different parts of the economy,

which I think is exciting for us,

and it means that we've got people-

And it's different too.

Yeah, it's different.

And it means that they're at the table saying,

we've got to think about how this will impact

on every segment of the economy, not just one or two.

So the small business bureau, there's just way too much red tape

when it comes to the, for the ability,

particularly for small businesses to navigate,

whether they're cafes and they want to get an outdoor license

for alfresco dining, they have to go through the local council,

they get a permit from the state government as well.

So we've looked at many ways of streamlining

and taking out a lot of that bureaucracy and red tape.

And I could read you the list of government agencies

that are responsible for planning in this state,

and if you're a moderately sized building company,

for example, you've got to have competencies

with the minister responsible, the other minister responsible,

the Greater Cities Commission, the Greater Sydney Commission,

local planning panels, the local government,

the Land Environment Court.

But what's happening is a lot of private capital

is organizing itself and saying,

it's just too difficult to do business in Sydney, for example.

We'll go to Brisbane in particular,

which seemed to have streamlined processes

and have become attractive.

So we've got to be careful about this stuff.

You're sort of just hanging on to your seat.

How's that going?

Yeah, it's tight.

Cogger is tight.

We had a redistribution between this election and the last one.

But the last one, I had a young candidate against me

who was a firebrand and did very well.

And so it's close.

We had a redistribution, it went down to 60 votes.

But I made it clear to the party and my constituents in Cogger

that I'd rather not be in politics

if I wasn't the member for Cogger.

And it's their choice if they want me or not,

but I'm not swapping seats.

I'm not going to ditch my electorate

and try and get a safer electorate somewhere else.

I think I'm the best candidate for the seat of Cogger

and I'm going to fight for it, but I'm never going to swap.

I love the electorate of Cogger.

What's the machine that sits behind Chris Minns?

What's it look like, Chris Minns,

who's trying to be the leader of the state,

you know, and is currently the leader of the opposition?

Give us an insight into what that looks like.

Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty lean.

Is it?

And it's my personal staff.

So press secretaries, chiefs of staff,

we've got economists and policy directors,

but it's no more than 10 or 11.

Oh, really?

Yeah, super, super small.

And that's meant that we've really focused on the things

that we believe are crucial for the people

in New South Wales, rather than, you know,

we wanted to make sure that we've got,

we've got a real deep understanding of the budget process

and where the economy's going

and where jobs and skills will come from.

And we've built them up

as a, as our, you know, priority.

Party office, the Labour Party office that handles research

and candidate selection and all the rest of it.

And there's a big logistical exercise

in making sure everybody's on the same page,

not just once a day, but three or four times a day.

What are the Libs doing?

What are we doing?

What are we doing in response to what the Libs are doing?

Yeah, the tactical stuff.

We've been pretty clear on strategy though.

I mean, what I'm talking about, cost of living, skills,

domestic manufacturing, education, health.

I was talking about when I got the leadership.

I'm talking about it today.

I suspect I'll say it the day before the election.

And if I win on election night,

that's what we'll talk about too.

So we've really said the unique selling position for Labour

is about economic opportunity.

The Greens have got their thing.

The Libs are about sort of big business.

The Nats, I don't know, the Bush.

For us, it doesn't matter what your parents did for a living.

There's no limit to your potential in Australia.

That's when we're at our best.

When Labour's at our best, we're talking life.

That opportunity, ambition for you and what we can do

to make sure that you meet your full potential.

And I guess that's what drives me.

I'm excited by that.

And if I can animate that spirit inside Labour,

I mean, I think we've got a real shot.

Chris Minns, thanks for your honesty.

But by the way, thanks for your straight talk, mate.

Straight up.

Mark, I really, really enjoyed it.

I listen, I watch the podcast and I listen to it

and it's fantastic.

Thank you.

Thanks very much.

Good luck.

Thanks, mate.

Thank you for listening to another episode

of Straight Talk with Mark Boris.

Audio production by Jessica Smalley.

Production assistants, Jonathan Leondis and Simon McDermott.

This is a mentored podcast.

If you've been listening along for a while,

you'll know I'm all about staying sharp,

physically and mentally.

As I get older, staying on top of my game means being smarter

with how I support my body and mind day in, day out.

One product I've already added to my routine

from the bulk nutrients range is their NMN Extender.

It's a science-backed blend of 10 powerful ingredients,

including NMN, resveratrol and hyaluronic acid.

Now this is designed to support everything

from energy and muscle recovery to skin hydration,

joint health, and even mental clarity.

And by the way, I need all those.

Whether I'm powering through a busy week

or just investing in my long-term health,

NMN Extender help me stay ready for whatever's next.

And believe me, it tastes pretty good too.

Head to bulknutrients.com.au

and subscribe to my channel.

And see why NMN Extend might be the edge

you've just been looking for.

Not all that long ago, money was simple.

You earned it, saved some, spent some,

and maybe invested in a house if you were lucky.

No apps, no online banking,

no thinking beyond what was in your wallet.

But times have changed.

In today's money market, growth can come in many ways.

And the way we think about cash is continuously evolving.

Enter Australia's highest rated crypto exchange, SwiftX.

Whether you are just starting to explore

the crypto market or are already deep in the game,

SwiftX makes it easy to acquire, sell,

and trade digital assets all in one place.

So if you're someone who's thought about

dipping your toes in the crypto market,

but isn't sure where to start, this might be for you.

Visit swiftx.app forward slash Mark Boris to check it out.