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I'm Mark Boris, and this is Straight Talk.
I'm sitting here in front of who I consider to be Australia's greatest export boxer, probably
one of Australia's most decorated sports people, and I've never had you on my show, and it's
because you're such great mates.
I don't think of you as Jeff Fennec, the athlete, the fighter, the world champion, the greatest
featherweight of all time.
I just think of you as my mate.
So, uh, Jeff Fennec.
Welcome to Straight Talk, mate.
I tell all my fighters to get in close and fight.
It's about 50-50 at a distance.
If you know how to fight in close and you get in there, and you know how to use your
You know how to use your head, and foundation's everything.
If your feet are in a good position, you can make somebody miss.
You can make them pay.
My time, as you said, Jeff Fennec's one of the best in close fighters of all time.
My job as a trainer is to get that guy in the ring ready to kill somebody.
Now, I mean, kills them, but that's, that's boxing.
I've been running every day, doing all this stuff again, and a week later, you know, I
get on a plane, I feel like I'm going to die.
I look at life these days and think, make the most of it, enjoy yourself, and if you can
make other people enjoy it with you, do it.
I'm going to put this on your podcast.
This is the first I've never told you, so.
Welcome to Straight Talk, mate.
You know, it's ridiculous.
I'm sitting here in front of who I consider to be the, Australia's greatest export boxer.
Australia's probably one of Australia's most decorated sports people, probably, in terms
In the boxing world, definitely.
And then, of course, you know, John Wayne Parr, probably in the Muay Thai environment,
but, you know, like, and I've never, and I've had you on my show before, but you came on
with Brock Jarvis, but I've never had you on my show, and I was thinking about it the
other day, I thought, what the fuck, why haven't you had Jeff on?
And it's because you're such great mates.
I don't think of you as Jeff Fennec, the athlete, the fighter, the world champion, you know,
greatest featherweight of all time, of all time.
Not just Australian.
I just think of you as my mate all the time, and I just sort of think, oh, Jeff's my mate,
and I'll talk to you once a week, and see you every now and then when we go on another
feed or whatever.
I should have had you here a bloody long time ago.
Well, that makes me happy, because I'm, you know, what I've done in my sporting career
and everything else, Mark, that's history, you know, and what we do today, and the loyalty
you've shown me, and hopefully I've repaid that, is what life's about.
And I'm, you know, I'm not about, you know, belts or what I've done.
I'm about trying to live the best life I can and make sure that I leave the best memories
not only for myself, but for the people that I'm with.
And like I said, I've shared some great ones with you, and I'm, you know, I'm honored
Well, thanks, mate.
By the way, I did cast you on the TV show, Celebrity Apprentice, and we might talk about
that a little bit later, because there was an interesting story around that when you
and Johnny Steph nearly had a stoush out the back where all the boxes were.
I mean, a proper stoush, which I had to step in the middle of, and then you fired yourself
to go back and rest.
We'll talk about that later.
But first and foremost, mate, most recently, you were a crook, and that's not your first
You've had heart surgery before.
How are you feeling?
You know, I'm this kind of guy that likes to show everybody that I can rebound as quick
Like my first one in Bangkok, I flew on a plane.
And a guy by the name of Mark Boros was there waiting for me and dressed me for my daughter's
wedding, because I couldn't do it on my own.
We got you a barber.
We got you the tailor.
We hid your waist, because she didn't know you were coming.
And it was a crazy part of my life.
But then I thought through that and I think, gee, I'd hate to have this again.
What I went through entirely was, yeah, it was horrific.
You know, I was like, you know, I was one day away from death.
And thanks to my friends for taking the key, Jack Brubaker, Brock Jarvis, and the boys
They, yeah, they saved my life.
And then, I don't know, four and a half years later, I'm getting temperatures and not feeling
Go to the doctors.
They told me to take some Pedadol.
And all of a sudden, they gave me something else.
And like I said, maybe it's me being too tough and pretending that I'm always okay.
And then I went to the last time.
I told the doctor that I had pains in my calf and pains in my wrist.
And I was blown to RPOs.
And I was just blessed that there was an amazing specialist there that was just finishing surgery
and was able to look after me straight away without Paul Bannon.
I honestly don't believe I'd be here today.
Well, I saw you after the operation.
And, mate, it was scary.
I'll be honest with you, like, you probably don't remember a lot of it because you were
sitting there in a chair, by the way, annoying the shit out of everybody, ordering nurses
around, then being cheeky back to them at the same time.
Poor Susie that your wife sitting there just shaking her head, not knowing what to do.
But she was very worried.
And she rang me quite a few times.
And I got over there.
I actually got a shock when I saw you because, you know, like, fucking tubes and shit everywhere.
Like, it was pretty full on.
And I could see – I didn't want to say anything at the time, but I could see it was a touch
I knew it was touch and go.
And I was checking in with Susie like all the time.
What is it about you?
I don't know if you've ever thought about this.
I don't know if you're a tough guy.
The result is you're tough.
Obviously, you fought in the ring.
But what is it about you that sort of makes you so doggedly determined
not to die or so doggedly determined not to lose
or so doggedly determined I'm going to run this kilometer
in three and a half minutes?
I mean, ridiculous times.
And you'd run – I've trained with you.
Like, you know, you'll push yourself.
What is that about you?
Has that always been you as a kid or where do you reckon it come from?
Mark, I was the skinniest kid in the neighborhood.
Like I said, when I – just think of this.
When I was 18, I weighed 47, 48 kilos.
And I played Jersey Fleet for two years in a row and then –
And just so everyone knows, Jersey Fleet is the under-18s in those days.
Yeah, I played when I was 17 and I played when I was 18.
And, I don't know, I just always wanted to prove to everybody
that this little skinny guy could do whatever the big guy's done.
So I wanted to make sure that I was fitter than everybody else
and that definitely helped me.
But the thing that helped me the most was, you know,
people talk about Alfie Langer or Tom Radonigus,
these enormous size hearts.
We've all got the same size heart, Mark.
Everything comes from me.
It's first from the head, Bryce Courtney.
First from the head, then from the heart.
And, yeah, if you've done something and you've prepared properly for it,
you believe in yourself.
I'll never forget, Mark, my first world title fight.
I went from fighting, you know, whenever I knocked everybody out,
my seventh fighter was fighting 15 rounds.
This was at the Horton, wasn't it?
Yeah, the Horton, yeah.
Yeah, I was there.
And the crazy thing was all these Australian ex-fighters were saying,
ah, he's not going to be able to do 15 rounds, he's never done it before.
And I'm thinking to myself, you guys don't effing know me.
I've done it 10 times in the preparation for this and I've done it,
you know, my whole life.
I've always boxed, you know, 10, 12, 15 rounds, you know,
even when I was an amateur.
And, yeah, so I kind of think it's a mental thing with me that I don't,
like people say that I had a big heart because I don't believe that.
I believe that I was so mentally prepared that, you know,
I didn't want to let nobody down.
That was my biggest thing, Mark.
Every time I won and I've seen Johnny's face and seen the people around me.
Yeah, Johnny Lewis.
Yeah, when I won to see the joy and happiness,
I bring him was even more important than me winning.
So I knew that every time I won, I was going to get that smile and cuddle
from him and then we're going to go to lunch and dinner every day of the week
because we spent, you know, 20 hours a day together.
And, yeah, so I just, yeah, I wanted to keep sharing that love
and that stuff with Johnny.
Is it, are you the sort of person who wants to please those people
that you choose to be in your community?
I really want to be in your community.
I really want to be in your community.
I really want to be in your community.
I really want to be in your community.
I really want to show them how much I love them.
I really want to please them.
I want them to know and acknowledge how much I love them.
Is that important to you?
Yeah, definitely so, especially the people who have helped me.
I want to sometimes just, you know, you don't have to buy somebody a car
or a house or a gift, but when you show them, you know, emotionally
and when you show that positivity, I think that makes them feel great.
Me, I don't need a gift from anybody, but if I'm shown loyalty, that's all I need.
So do you feel, because I've known you for a long time
and I find you extraordinarily generous, like, you know, you always, I mean,
pay if we go out for dinner, like, I know, it's just something about you,
like we're just having a coffee outside here and it's like in my coffee shop,
my building, and you offer to pay for breakfast.
Like it's just, it's totally unnecessary.
And I don't think you're definitely doing it to impress me
because we've been around long enough, you don't need to do it.
But you have this sense of generosity, like a massive sense of generosity.
I've been with you when you've been with 20, 30 people.
That generosity, does money really mean that much to you
or you'd rather have it just so you can give it to someone else?
When I go to Bangkok, I feed every kid in the street.
I buy them clothes and my, I think my reasoning for doing that is,
I know that without, forget you, my mate and all that,
but without that.
Australian public paying to watch me fight, I wouldn't have nothing.
They brought me my house.
They brought me my cars.
And, you know, I worked hard and I know that.
But I'll never forget that.
That's why, Mark, I love it when I go out to dinners and stuff.
I'll see a couple there and I'll send them over a couple of bottles of wine
or I'll send something over to them.
If not, I'll pay the bill.
And when I get home, I feel really good.
I'm a real strong believer in karma and maybe that's why I'm still here.
But, yeah, my wife and I love making other people feel the same way we do.
If I'm having a $200 or $300 bottle of wine, I'll see somebody having a,
you know, I like them to think that, wow, Jeff Fenwick let me share
in this amazing opportunity.
That's what I talked about, memories, Mark, you know.
For me, that's a great memory.
But I've gone to so many different restaurants and people come to me
and say, Mr. Fenwick, do you remember three years ago you bought me
this bottle of wine or you paid our bill?
And I don't remember.
But, obviously, I must have done it.
Actually, the word sharing, I think that's probably the better description
and I use the word generosity, but it's probably a better word.
Because sometimes sharing can be like a selfish thing in that I do it.
Like I share with people things, which is this whole podcast.
I'm sharing my podcast with the audience because I get a buzz out of it.
It makes me feel good.
I know they feel good, therefore I feel good.
How important is sharing?
Because you said something about Johnny Lewis, like you go and share lunch,
you go and have dinner, you share his love, his affection and friendship.
And I know I see that with your mates.
And I see it with you.
With your family.
I see it with Susie, your wife.
Sharing, therefore, must be one of the most important things for you.
Yeah, Mark, you know, when you – I had nothing.
Although I didn't have nothing, you know, and I'm more than happy to say it.
I had lots because I was a good thief.
I was a very smart kid when I was young, you know.
Yeah, I'd let my friends go and rob somewhere and when I found out where
they hid the money, I would go and take it.
You know, so I was –
Good at living off your wits.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was very, very good at that and I think I'm still good at that today.
But what I'm saying is that I just – yeah, when I think of my life and my
upbringing and then you go overseas to somewhere like Thailand where we've
shared some time together, you don't realize how lucky we are.
And when you hear about people being sick and dying, you don't realize how
And I think the greatest example is when Mike Tyson talks about when he rushed
into the hospital when his little daughter died and all of a sudden he's
He wanted to kill the world and as he's looking around, there's now another
10 or 20 families there with – had gone through the same thing and it really
made him think about it.
Like I said, I haven't had that tragedy in my family.
My dad died very young because he was sick all his life.
But my dad was, yeah, a tough guy.
And yeah, I just think everything in life happens for a reason, Mark.
I'm kind of this guy.
I think that there's a script for all of us.
I really do believe that.
There's just – yeah.
And whoever knows it's going to happen, it's going to happen.
Like I said, prior to me having my first operation, Mark, I was as fit as a fiddle,
I was being a brain to my friends how I've been running every day, doing all
this stuff again.
And a week later, you know, I get on a plane and I feel like I'm going to die.
So yeah, I mean, I look at life these days and think make the most of it,
And if you can make other people enjoy it with you, do it.
Like I said, Mark, I'm not worried about –
I'm not worried about houses, cars or anything like that.
None of them are going to go with you.
We can't take them with us.
And it's great to look after your children and that kind of stuff.
But memories for me are much, much more important than anything else.
And like I said, I'll say, because I've said it many times,
if there was somebody dying and needed me to sort any of my world title builds
and I could help them, I'd give it to them in two minutes.
Let's go back when you were a kid.
Mum and Dad, both Maltese?
Your Dad born in Malta?
Mum born in Malta?
Both born in Malta, yeah.
Do they meet here in Australia?
They meet here in Malta?
Do they meet here in Malta?
Yeah, I think they met here in Australia.
Met here in Australia.
And brothers and sisters, what have you got?
Three brothers, two sisters.
And where do you sit in the age group?
You're the youngest.
So you've got – one brother must be like 70?
Because you've just turned 60 this year.
Yeah, my oldest brother would just be – yeah, I'm a year or so over 70.
And I'm sorry to hear that he's not well at the moment.
Yeah, well, that's my brother below him.
That's the one below him, is it, right?
Because, yeah, suffering, yeah.
Well, he's riddled with cancer and it's just a matter of time now.
So he's just trying to – again, trying to spend time with him,
make him happy for whatever it may be.
We don't know if it's a week and two weeks or a month or three months.
But he certainly doesn't have long.
He's riddled with cancer, his tongue, his jaw, everywhere, his eye.
Wow, that's heavy.
And you've got one brother below, then you've got two sisters below that?
My sister is the eldest.
And then my other sister is the one bad before me.
Okay, so which is the one who got – went and fought some ex-fighter or –
My sister Rita, she was crazy.
She played footy.
I'll never forget it, that we were in Simpson Park.
That's where we lived.
That's where we was brought up.
And there's this boxer and he's a light heavyweight champion of Australia
and he was picking on a few of the boys.
So my sister fought him.
One-on-one, yeah.
Yeah, maybe that's where I get it from.
Were you there watching?
Yeah, we were all there watching.
The whole park was there watching, yeah.
So – and when you grew up in like an environment like that, I mean,
everyone calls you the Marathon Waller, but you actually were St. Peter's,
But the Marathon Hotel, I think, was one of your sponsors or something,
wasn't it, at the time?
But when you grew up in those communities, what do you remember most
about growing up in those communities, apart from your family?
What's a community like?
Growing up in those environments.
Mark, we had fights every day.
We played for every – listen, as soon as I got home from school,
straight to the park, we played footy.
Of course, you're playing with your mates, but you still want to show them
that you're the boss.
We'd fight every day.
There were a lot of the parents in my neighborhood that wouldn't let
their kids with me.
They wouldn't let their children come out with me on Saturdays.
Because you're wild?
Wild, and they knew that we were going down the markets to get whatever
But, yeah, they knew that, yeah, that –
Yeah, you missed your –
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I wanted to – yeah, even back then, I wanted to live a great life.
I have some amazing memories as a kid as well, Mark.
I got locked up in a detention center, but I was out –
Yeah, and then I got out, and yeah, I loved it.
I mean, yeah, I'd done the right thing there.
First time ever we made the boys home, get a football team,
we went and played Lewisham.
I'll never forget it.
They beat us, but we –
We bashed the crap out of them.
And just before we left, we thought, you know, we're in this bus,
we've got a long trip back to – we were in Thornleigh at Ormond,
a boys' home called Ormond.
We thought we'd visit their canteen and take a few things with us.
A couple of the boys, we went to the canteen, got chips and drinks
and chocolates that we don't have there, and we celebrated all the way home.
Was it a matter of you just being cheeky and can I get away with it,
or was it a matter of I've never had this before and I'm a poor kid
with a chip on my shoulder?
What was the deal?
Was it more mischievous?
Yeah, of course it was.
But like I said, it wasn't about I didn't have anything.
I just – I knew how to get things, Mark.
You know, I just knew that – like I said, when I was a kid,
I'd go to – it's not Bunnings now, but there'd be the big warehouses
and then something would be $700.
There was BBC in those days.
I'd put $150 on and go and buy it, and then I'd go to a work site
and settle for twice as much.
That's just how I –
Just a good hustler.
Yeah, well, yeah.
And that, like I said, you know –
I think the easiest and the best things to sell
and the things that everybody uses, and I'll never forget,
everybody used razors.
So I'd just walk into a chemist back in the day and, you know,
it wasn't hard to take 10 or 20.
And they were expensive too.
Yeah, yeah, and just go to the pub and you'd sell them
to the older guys, you know.
Like I said, I'm not proud of it, but that's how we –
that's what everybody done in the neighborhood.
And like I said, would I change anything today?
I'd change a lot of things, Mark.
Change so many things.
So you've just got to be proud of what you've done and be honest.
And like I said, I talk about these things because I want people to know that –
yeah, not that I –
and people know that I wasn't an angel,
but I want people to know that not everybody's perfect.
You know, I honestly believe this, that getting in trouble,
yeah, it taught me a lot, Mark, you know.
Yeah, being around some of the guys I was –
around even to this day.
I mean, I'm guilty by association, you know, 10 times a week.
I meet people that – you know, people don't want to be around.
But me, I love everybody and I'm not just saying that.
You know, I've never had a drug in my life, Mark.
I've never had a smoke in my life.
I've never had a coffee in my life.
Like I said, I've done those things that I've done early in my life.
But like I said, I do wish I didn't do it, but that's how our neighborhood was.
That's how we lived.
And yeah, I was able to get away for a while.
And I never got locked up for stealing or anything like that.
I got locked up for –
We had some fights and a lot of really bad gang things happening over the time.
And like I said, my lawyer and my solicitor said,
there's not a chance in the world you'll get locked up.
You're 13 years old.
But yeah, I got locked up because there was so much happening at the time
in the ways of people fighting on trains and assaults and stuff like that
and there were some stabbings in the city over those earlier months.
So yeah, we got punished.
So I guess – I mean, I know the story.
But a lot of people don't.
Can you just take me through as to why he became a boxer?
I mean, like I've had Mark Hunt sit there and he told me the reason he became a fighter
was because of trauma that he'd suffered as a result of watching his sister
be effectively raped by their father and she got pregnant to her father.
And he was much younger and he felt guilty his whole life
for not having protected his sister.
He was only eight at the time.
She was like 14 or something.
It actually reduced Mark to tears, to be honest with you,
and just that rawness of that memory.
But you don't have that – I know the story, but you don't have that story.
I mean, it was sort of just a chance thing happening.
So tell us how you became – started fighting.
Yeah, I never watched a fight.
Well, I'd heard of Muhammad Ali, of course, but I never watched boxing in my life.
It was the furthest thing from my mind.
Footy was more your favorite thing.
I played rugby league since I was four years old.
Like I said, I was blessed to have reached the top level,
me playing for Newdown.
But just one day, me and a few of the boys went to a youth club
to try to find a few boys that we wanted to beat up.
And we searched the whole youth club.
Downstairs was where they played basketball and stuff
and indoor tennis and stuff.
And then there was a weights room downstairs.
There was another room downstairs.
There was some other room.
And then there was a couple of rooms upstairs.
We went to the first room, which was a wrestling room.
There was nobody there.
And then we went to the next room, which was a judo room.
There was nobody in there.
And then as we were walking, we go back down the stairs.
And there was just a little glass panel about the size of your little iPad there.
And I looked through it because you could see into the room.
And I seen a friend of mine that played football as well.
But we read about him at school.
He was from Emerald Boys High School.
He was an Australian champion.
He was pretty special.
So instead of going home, I thought I'd sit down and watch him.
Sat down and watched him.
I heard the trainer say it would be great if he had somebody to box
because he's got a big fight coming up.
And I volunteered.
At that day, I regretted it.
But Johnny came up to me after that.
I didn't even know his name then.
But Johnny Lewis came up to me and said,
are you sure you've never boxed before?
I said, no, I've never boxed.
And he said, would you come back tomorrow?
I think, oh, this guy wants me to get bashed up again.
So I didn't say no.
I said I'd come back.
But as soon as I left the place, I thought, not a chance in the world
I'm going back to get beat up, you know.
I don't know, Mark.
The next day I went back.
And my world and my whole life changed.
I had people that I'll always be friends with that thought that I betrayed them
because I didn't go out with them anymore.
I changed my whole life around them.
It was all for Johnny.
It wasn't just for Johnny.
It was for the goals that he had set me.
At the start, I didn't really believe in any of those.
I thought, you know, if it happens, it happens.
But he would say something to me, Mark, and three months down the track,
I was New South Wales champion.
Three months down the track?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he doesn't let people even fight for that, you know.
Then, you know, maybe six or seven months later, I was Australian champion.
And within a couple of years, I'm on the plane traveling all around the world.
I mean, when somebody said to me, do you want to go overseas?
I'd say, yeah, let's get on the boat and go to Manly, you know.
That was overseas for me.
And then all of a sudden, I'm.
Flying to Northern Ireland, Indonesia, Bangkok, Rome, and Belfast, and fighting.
And it was like, wow.
And not just that, Mark.
And that's another reason why I go back to you saying about sharing.
I had no money to get there.
My parents didn't have money.
So I'd run raffles and stuff in my neighborhood.
It would all make me the money.
They would all help me.
So I can never forget that.
I can never forget how much people gave to me.
So I'm in a position to give back and help people.
So I'll always do that.
But anyhow, all of a sudden.
In 1983, I had like 13 or something fights, 14 fights.
You were doing amateur fights?
Amateur fights, yeah.
I go to the World Cup in Rome, and I come third in the world, which is.
Which weight division were you talking about now?
I was in the flyweight division.
Yeah, but how much, what weight is that?
That was 50, 51 kilos back then, yeah.
And it was amazing.
And all of a sudden, I had a few more fights and a few more fights.
And it was the year after was Olympic selection.
And I'm thinking, wow, it would have been great.
But then I was thinking, they said they're only taking three or four people
And I'm thinking, wow, there's so many guys who have had so many more fights
than me that, and they deserve to go.
I believed, although I got picked and I got on to do amazing things in the sport,
I reckon there were a couple of boys that maybe should have been picked
But I got chosen to select Australia to represent Australia
at the Olympic Games in 84.
And that's in LA?
It was crazy, Mark.
But I think that games.
It put the stamp on me of what I wanted to do.
I mean, we hear the Michael Jordan stories and that.
My story's no different, Mark.
Listen, I'll tell you something.
I went to the Olympic Games in 84.
Everybody on the plane, we're all talking about marching in front of the world
and everybody at home is going to see you.
Then you talk about competing.
And I was one of the only guys.
I was going to win gold after 24 amateur fights.
I didn't think of nothing else.
It was just gold.
Think of the guys that I fought, and I'll tell you later,
with all the experience I had, maybe I was...
Yeah, more, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But no, I thought, I want to win a gold medal for Australia.
And then everybody talked about, you know, after we fight,
we're going to have this amazing after party.
It's the biggest party in the world where the whole world are together
And I was looking forward to the whole three of them,
but I was looking forward to the most important thing to me was,
was to win a gold medal anyway.
So when we get there, we weigh in, we do our first thing and stuff.
And I get drawn to fight the first night there.
And that was the night after we marched.
So, no, no, it was the night we were marching in the day
and then I had to fight that night.
And I thought to myself, what am I here for?
Am I here to march or am I here to, excuse me,
am I here to try to win a medal?
And I thought, without a doubt, I'm here to try to win a medal.
So I didn't march.
Everybody's ringing me from, why didn't you march?
I said, I've got to fight tonight.
I've got to make weight.
I'd done that, had my first fight.
I won against a guy who had like, you know, a couple of hundred fights.
And then in my second fight, I won, I fought a guy from Tanzania
who had maybe 300 fights.
And then in my third fight, I fought a guy from Yugoslavia
and he had like 191 fights or something like that.
And he had knocked out a lot of people and I watched him on video there
because my trainer at the time, Ed Wishes, he's a great man,
was an amazing trainer.
We went through all the videos and he said, Jeff, you can beat this kid.
I'm thinking, yeah, again.
Yeah, of course I can.
You know, I'm not going to say I can't.
So I, you know, went into the ring against this guy who was a huge favorite
against me because he knocked everybody else out.
And like I said, having my 28th amateur fight, I fought all right.
I thought it was great.
I thought the first round was a bit shaky, but then I got confident
in the second and third round and I thought that I'd won the fight for sure.
At the end of the fight, the judges awarded me the fight.
Yeah, the ringside judges.
But the first time in Olympic boxing history, there was a jury as well
and the jury gave us a –
Yeah, reversed my decision.
Yeah, well, they judged the fight and they said he won.
But just politics.
Without cheating on politics, that's amateur boxing.
You know, maybe that's why I went to the Olympics,
not these other guys who had more experience with politics.
But at that time, like I said, I came third in the world
and I came third in the Commonwealth in 83 as well.
So, you know, whether I deserved to be there before those other guys,
I'll never say I did.
But I was chosen, so I just had to go and do the best I could.
Anyway, so after that fight –
Well, apart from cry and speak to Johnny and be pretty upset and, you know,
Johnny said, I thought you won the fight.
And I thought to myself, what's next?
So obviously there's a couple of boys to fight
and then I was the last guy in there.
So all the boxing was over and I thought, the Olympic party.
Everybody's talking about it.
We're all getting ready just as the Olympics are about to –
And I thought, no, that night I couldn't sleep.
I did a couple of press conferences, one with Graeme McNeice
and one with somebody else from Channel 10.
And I thought to myself, yeah, I don't want to be here now.
So I rang up and I changed my flights and I'll never forget going to the airport
that day and having a lot of the Australian media there
because I decided to go home.
Like I said, I never went there for a party, Mark.
I went there to win a medal.
And when they took it off me, you've got to think of this.
I think Harry Garside's won a bronze medal now.
But my bronze medal was guaranteed and I had to fight somebody else
who Red Zip Brinzapowski, who I beat, went on to beat and fight in the final.
So who knows what would have happened because styles make fights.
But I went home, got a plane the next day and obviously had a press conference
in America, had a massive press conference when I got home with my family
and all at the airport waiting for me and a lot of other Aussie supporters
were there, which made me feel great.
And then I said to –
Arthur Tunstall, who was the guy who ran the sport of boxing,
when I got home I said, listen, I want to stay.
I want to be an amateur for another four years.
I'm going to win a gold medal.
I thought, you know, with 28 fights, imagine in four years when I've had,
you know, 100 fights and what's going to happen.
I said, I just want to ask you one question.
You've got to guarantee me that my trainer, Johnny Lewis,
is going to be in my corner.
Not that Ed Wishes wasn't great.
He was great, but I still wanted Johnny there.
And he said, listen, we can't do that.
So I went and spoke to my sponsors and I turned pro in October of 84.
Had a couple of fights and, yeah, I just kept knocking people out and winning
and had an amazing promoter at the time by the name of Bill Morty,
who was a massive gambler but a beautiful guy you'll ever meet.
And he and his family, you know, invested in me.
And after my sixth fight, there was a new world title I called the IBF.
And they thought that I was a chance.
Well, there was a world champion who was looking for somebody to fight.
Obviously, he was looking for somebody easy.
So he thought, here's this guy.
He's had six fights.
You know, never, you know, gone over six or seven rounds at a time.
And, yeah, they got some good money.
Let's go to Australia and defend our title and, you know, retain the championship.
Well, that's not how it went, but that wasn't the script.
But the script for me was Johnny and I jumped on a plane, went to Fiji,
trained, trained and trained, trained our backsides off,
had our team with us sparring there and came home in 196 days from the day.
I became world champion.
And like I said, the IBF back then wasn't like the biggest world title,
but it was a stepping stone for me to have seven fights and to do that was crazy, Mark.
So you said something earlier before which is really important
and I want to talk to you about this.
And as often you hear boxing commentators say it all the time,
but you said styles win fights.
And I just want to talk to you about your style and were you aware of your style,
at the time, and did you work on your style as a style, you know,
like me as an observer of many fighters, particularly you,
your style was relentless, always be the fittest in the ring.
I would say you're probably the fittest boxer of all time.
I would say if not, the FI is definitely one of the fittest fighters
that's ever existed in boxing.
And obsessed with the fight and also throw a lot of punches
and extraordinarily busy and never punched once.
You weren't just jabbed, you fight, you throw them in bunches all the time.
And that's another saying people say, punches are bunches.
I've heard you say it actually, but that's your style.
Where do you think, did you sort of determine that style?
Was that a thing you knew?
Mark, I didn't know anything else.
I mean, like I said, Johnny being this great man,
you know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
In my corner, that was what I began doing
and I got better and better at it, better and better and better at it.
And there was no need to change.
Like I said, I sat down in the corner in a million,
well, not in a million, but thousands of rounds
and I never heard Johnny tell me to change anything
because I didn't need to.
He just let you do your thing.
Yeah, yeah, because, you know, after four or five rounds,
the fight would change and I would progressively empty
emptied their tank and my tank was still full and, yeah.
And as you see, I didn't – although I had a lot of knockouts,
the knockouts weren't from one punch but they were from lots of punches
because, yeah, because I was so fit and then the referee would either stop it
or my opponents would like to retire.
They just couldn't keep up with me.
Yeah, because in those days you were doing 15 rounds,
especially in the Bantamweight division and you were doing –
I saw a lot of 15 –
Yeah, well, I fought Shingaki 15 rounds.
I fought Jerome Coffey 15 rounds and I went 15 rounds.
I fought Steve McCrory 15 rounds and I went 14 rounds.
And then I fought Shingaki in the rematch and I only went three rounds.
So I fought for 15 – I was prepared for 15 rounds four times.
No one really – there's no 15 rounds anymore, is there?
But I remember seeing you come out and –
I think the first one was Zuma Nelson was – how many rounds was that?
I remember you coming out in that last round and you looked like to me
that was your first round.
Like you came out with a level of energy that –
It probably would have shocked him too.
Yeah, well, I think even the commentator said,
what's this guy doing?
He's so far in front now and he's still trying to – that was just me, mate.
I was never going to stop.
I was never going to think that I was winning
and giving somebody an opportunity to beat me.
But I'm just trying to get into your head a little bit here, mate,
because me and a few of our mates think you're mad, okay?
So the guy's crazy.
We definitely say that too.
I've often said that.
Any great athlete is smart.
Anyone who's reached the levels you've reached in like rugby league
or whatever it is, boxing, et cetera, swimmers, whatever,
you've got to be smart.
You've got to be intelligent.
And I think – and you've also got to be smart relative to your craft.
And you definitely are one of those people.
But we used to say to ourselves, you know,
you've trained a couple of other fighters, younger kids,
and who are skilled kids and can get as fit as you.
But we used to say one of the reasons they won't become Jeff is because,
you know, they don't have Jeff's mentality.
And basically we used to think you were mad.
Like in other words, we don't mean mad in a clinical sense,
but we – like relentless.
Like the guy will never give up.
You've got to realize this, and this is what the world don't know.
Ninety-five percent of my fights I fought with broken hands.
You know, early on because I'd knocked some people out when I first started.
But, you know, I had like six operations on my hands,
six or seven operations on my hands.
I had pins put in both.
Every single fight, after I fought, my hands would be the size of the gloves.
So when we had cut them off, many times straight after the fight,
I'd rush straight into the hospital.
And within the week after, my swelling had gone down,
I'd go and have operations.
And, you know, so – I mean, this is the thing that people don't realize.
These were my tools.
And they were completely damaged, both.
But I still used them.
No, but I don't mean mad in a clinical sense.
I don't know what you're saying, but I'm saying,
you know, maybe I'm – yeah.
But there's something in there that –
I'll ask you a question.
Have you ever heard of an Olympic runner having a – I don't know, a bad leg and winning a race?
Have you ever heard of anybody in the field, a swimmer, only, you know, not been able to,
you know, swim properly, win a swim race?
No, but I don't know what it was.
I was just able to do it, Mark, and I was able to do it time and time again.
And I got used to it, that where I would punch somebody a little bit lighter than I'm supposed
to punch, and maybe I'd finish with an elbow or something.
I'm just a, you know – no, but it was just – when I think of it, it's a crazy story.
Like I said, for somebody to win four world titles with two broken hands, like I said,
for 90% of your career, I don't say to tap myself, it will never be done.
What I've done in boxing, and if we go through it stage by stage, this will never be done
No, I'm not worried that I don't get that credit for it because, like I said, I'm not
worried about credit anymore.
I'm worried about living life and stuff.
But I know what I've done.
And in my head, I think, I don't know anybody in any sport.
I mean, Michael Jordan, like I said, was an amazing guy who trained his backside off.
Kobe Bryant, I love Kobe Bryant.
He'd wake up and do this extra training and, you know – yeah, some of those guys were
amazing, but do you think Kobe could have done that with a – I don't know, not with
a broken leg, because you can't – I mean, I had broken hands.
I mean, could he have done it with a torn hammy or – no.
Could Michael Jordan have done it?
Could he have done it with a broken leg?
But why – what would go through your head when you know your hands – you're in the
fight, you've clipped them with a rod or whatever, and then you feel something, your
Yeah, well, I'd see what I'd feel.
When I would hit them clean, my whole hand would buzz and think, oh, shit.
It hurt me more than it hurt them.
So what would you think to yourself then?
What happens then?
Yeah, well, first of all, I didn't want to let Johnny down.
That was my most important ingredient.
You know, Johnny put me out here, told everybody I'm going to win, I'm going to win, and then
I – I don't know.
I just wanted to prove to myself mentally that I was strong enough to go through anything
I had to go through.
Maybe that's why I've gone through these two heart operations that I have as well.
You can't kill him.
You can't kill the bloke.
I mean, like – but you would go back at the end of the round, sit down, and what would
You'd say, well, fuck it.
You'd say, Johnny, I've done my hand.
Oh, my God, yeah, yeah.
I would never tell him.
He didn't tell him.
But, Mark, isn't that a crazy thing that you just said?
And I'm going to put this out there.
It's on your podcast.
This is the first I've never told you this.
A year and a half ago, I get a call.
I won't say from where or anything like that, but I get a call from a man saying, mate,
And I look at all the things you've done.
You're the most inspirational guy.
He rang me on Facebook.
So I didn't ask much more.
And he said, why did you answer that?
I said, listen, if I'm on Facebook and stuff, I'm going to answer to everybody.
Whether I know him or not.
Again, me being me, thinking that I owe the world for what I achieved.
And he said, well, I'm going to tell you something.
It's the first time this is going to be heard, Mark.
That he was paid money to come to Australia to kill me.
One million percent.
One million percent.
And apparently he was here and he'd done something that somebody else.
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Talking with somebody happened because,
yeah, with me, and he didn't, he had to go.
He didn't complete his mission?
Yeah, because I think maybe when he'd done something to somebody else,
he had to get out of there.
But he said to me, he said that the person who sent him on the mission said exactly what you said.
He said, make sure if you shoot him,
shoot him, shoot him, shoot him, shoot him.
Yeah, make sure he's 100% dead or else he's going to come back and haunt us, you know.
So, yeah, for me, it was the craziest shock.
I've always, I've told my wife.
It was only a little while ago, was it?
Yeah, this was only maybe a year and a half, two years ago.
This gentleman rang me and told me about it, that somebody from Australia, you know,
that wasn't happy with me and, you know, for certain reasons.
What did you say to him?
He was obviously seeking some sort of redemption for what he might have been thinking about
because now he's a Christian or whatever.
Yeah, that's what he was, Mark.
He was like, and he was telling me how much he loved me.
He was like, think, wow, this guy, yeah, come to Australia.
What did you say to him?
I would just agree with everything he said.
And, yeah, of course, because he was, he's obviously seen me on Instagram and Facebook
and all, especially Facebook, but he would see how much I help people and what I do and
how I, how I treat people.
And he thought, wow, I've got to ring this guy and tell him.
And it was, Mark, it was crazy.
It was crazy to hear him say what he said.
And like I said, I know who sent him here, but yeah, I'll leave that in the dark, you
Yeah, but that's history though.
There's no point dredging up those sorts of things.
I want to talk to you quickly, just quickly on this.
And I think I can't go past any further on the podcast without this conversation.
And because she never gets enough recognition.
Susie, your wife, your beautiful wife.
How many years have you been married now?
Yeah, we've got three children.
But the thing is that really quickly at my wedding, Ginge and Packer and all had a, they
were walking around with a board that said three, six or nine months.
But that was Ginge, but that was Ginge, what your story said about everyone.
It was pretty bad.
And I've never said about his marriage to beautiful Layla, but you know, that's what
he's all thinking.
And, um, you know, like I said, um, it's, we've been together over 30 years and, um,
What do you want to say about her?
Ah, without doubt.
I used to think that Mark, you're my best friend.
How can anybody say that a lady's their best friend?
She's my, she's my best friend by a million miles.
A hundred percent.
I'm going to give you a big scoop, Mark.
Do you want to, I watched John Farnham last night.
Did you see the special on him?
One of the greatest Australians ever.
And just before my world title fight in Australia, they wanted John Farnham to sing.
And at that time, um, my wife was with somebody and, um, he also sang.
So I made sure I wanted Susie at the fights.
So I told my management that I want her partner to sing.
So she would come.
And they're all going mad at me.
And you idiots, John Farnham.
I said, yeah, that's okay.
I don't want to get too deep in it, but yeah.
Um, uh, everything happened for a reason, Mark.
I think I made a great decision that day.
And, um, I think the greatest thing that's happened to me in the sport of boxing was
when I lost against Zuma Nelson because it kept me in Australia.
I met my wife and, um, all great things have happened to me.
And like I said, my, I think my greatest fight that I've ever had was my, my
My first loss against Zuma Nelson without any doubt.
It taught me who I am and what I'm about and what the world's more about than I
even ever thought I knew.
And what my real friends who were supposed to, my real friends who were
supposed to do, uh, did nothing, you know?
And so, yeah, I mean, again, I think everything happens for a reason.
I believe in karma, Mark.
That was in Melbourne.
And, uh, I was there and, uh, I remember Kerry Packer sitting in front of me
and I was in the second row.
And can you just take me through the fight?
What, like what happened?
You know what, Mark?
Isn't it the funniest thing?
We just brought up Kerry.
I was blessed to have trained him and stuff like that.
And after that fight, Kerry sent me to a neurologist.
He thought somebody had drugged me because that's never happened to Jeff
And I'm not going to say anybody drugged me, but I'm going to tell you this,
that, you know, again, it's never been in any of my books or it's never been
And he'll most probably hear it because he's still, um, alive and ticking.
The morning of that fight, it was a lunchtime fight.
But my doctor arrives to see me because I had my own doctor there who injected
looked after me because I had really bad asthma down there at the time because
it was that time when all these things are flying off the trees and stuff.
And it was pissing out and raining too.
Well, this, this was that day.
But what happened, Mark, was, um, when I spoke to him, I'm thinking, excuse me,
I haven't spoken once, but I'll just say, fuck, he stinks of alcohol.
Oh, we've been down to the strip clubs.
Melbourne was ripe at that time, all the new strip clubs, Santa Fe Gold and so on.
So anyway, um, I'm thinking, shit, now he's like just getting home.
So, you know, anyway, I didn't care because, again, Mark, I thought I'm going to kill
I thought I'm going to get in the ring round one, round two, round three, and it'll all
be over because he's not going to be able to take.
And I thought I knew now exactly what to do to him because, you know, although we never
watched any video to get any better, but we, I just thought I knew what was going to happen.
I just thought it was going to be that.
Well, I get to the dressing room and let me tell you how unprofessional we were, Mark.
I mean, this is the biggest fight of my life.
And I'm going to say this.
I'm going to say this.
I'm going to say this.
I love Johnny to death.
We had Virgil Hill fight.
We had Costa Zoo fight.
He had another person.
So I'm at the biggest fight of my life in the dressing room of my own for the whole
We had Virgil Hill fought 10 rounds, Costa, whatever.
The other guy, I mean, they made support.
I'm sitting there before the biggest fight of my life on my own.
My doctor comes in, time to give me my injections.
And there was nobody there to hold my hand like usually somebody will hold my hand.
So I held my hand on my own.
My first injection, Mark.
Went through that hand, out of that hand, and into that hand.
I think I just said it a little earlier.
And then I forget about that now that I told you that Kerry told me to go to the neurologist.
So my sister, who looked after my whole career, takes me to a neurologist and I get all these
And I still had enough Mark hanging in my body.
That's supposed to last three hours to get my finger chopped off the next day.
Without any fear.
Without feeling it.
So it was supposed to be a three-hour.
And like I said, that's not an excuse.
But I'm saying that's not an excuse why I lost.
I don't use that.
But what happened to me that day before, I thought was pretty surreal.
I mean, just imagine your doctor giving you your first needle goes through your hand into
That's pretty full on.
And that happened to me.
That happened to me.
And like I said, then 25.
24 hours later, I've still got enough Mark hanging in my body.
So did that affect me?
I can't tell you, Mark.
Although the neurologist said it definitely affected me.
That's a massive hit of painkiller.
Of course it did.
And the reason you were getting your hands injected was because of the pains in your
hands from all the injuries.
Yeah, because of the breaks.
You're not allowed to get injections.
So I would do it in the sneakiest way I could.
And yeah, I would then, you know, like I'll never forget in America, Mark, just to tell
you how smart Johnny Lewis was.
When I fought with Zuma and Elson there, you know, I had my injections and stuff.
Half the fight, these doctors and everybody, all the security come in.
They give you a thing you've got to urinate in.
And they want to watch you, actually watch you.
So I'm saying, listen, how am I going to do a wee in this thing?
And you're watching me.
I'm like, no, you know, whatever.
And they said, you know, and I said, do you know what you've got to do?
I said, please, can you just let me, give me 30 seconds and I'll get, you know.
So I pretend I'm drinking this Coke.
What was in my, the Coke was, it was a screw top.
With a hollow can of Coke with my good urine that I used.
So I was just dying to tip it in there so I could get out of there and just go with the boys.
Anyway, Johnny walks in and says, Jeff, what's happening?
I said, Johnny, these guys are watching me.
I can't do anything.
I don't know how we thought of it, but Johnny made the boys in the dressing room get in
the rolling brawl.
And these two guys from security rush over to stop it.
I was able to just put my urine in there.
And you got through the test.
Boxing's a new thing.
You know, because you've been a coach, a trainer and a coach.
Boxing's a pretty weird game.
I mean, it's not exactly what we see when we're watching the fights on television
when we go to the fights.
And it's sort of, to some extent, it's a tough environment to navigate if you're a
fighter and if you're a trainer for that matter.
And I've seen you when you've been in the corner for blokes and you know how to
How important is for a fighter, and we're going to talk about a couple of fights
which have been more recent fights.
How important is it for the corner to be able to manage the ring for his fighter?
So important, Mark.
I mean, you look what I've done for Hass Hamden when he won the Australian title.
He had a cut eye.
The doctors had stopped the fight.
So I scream, of course, using my presence and my name.
I screamed to the doctor, let me give him one more round.
Let me try to stop the bleeding.
I'll stop the bleeding.
I've been, you know, the doctor, the referee said, yep, all right.
Sit down with the doctor.
Let me have one more round.
That was a third round, Mark.
After the fourth round, it goes to the scorecards.
After the fourth round, I told the doctor and the referee that, look, the cut is too
Let's stop the fight now.
So we stopped in the fourth round.
Just explain the strategy behind that, though.
Well, the strategy was that if we stopped in the third round, it's a technical draw
because it was an accidental cut.
If it goes to the fourth round and we'd won the first three rounds and we win the
fourth round or we get through to the round.
It goes to the scorecards and that means my boxer was going to be Australian champion.
And you knew that he'd won the first three rounds.
Oh, of course I did.
We'd won it clearly.
So when, you know.
So strategy's important.
Oh, so important.
And a corner can fuck it up pretty bad.
Well, especially if they've got no idea, if they don't know the rules.
So can we just reflect on Tim, Tim Zoo?
I mean, like, I'm not getting here to bag his corner.
But you've said it publicly.
Mark, I love Tim.
If those guys, I've said it because I'm not going to hide it.
If those guys had the brain, excuse me, to stop that after the fourth round, even Tim
was a little close because he maybe lost that round.
But if you told Tim, Tim, we've got one more round to go.
I want you to go out there and win this round.
When you come back, we're going to stop it.
He would have maintained his.
Even if it was a draw, Mark, the champion retains the title.
If he's in front, he's world champion.
And wait a minute.
His next fight wasn't one million or what.
I don't know what he got.
So I'm just saying.
It would be 10 million.
So he lost a fortune on the fight.
And I ranked him.
And I told him about his bravery and what he showed us.
But you know, Tim, you don't need to prove you're brave.
We all know you're brave.
We've seen him fight.
We've seen him beat guys that nobody thought he could beat.
We've seen him beat the likes of the Jeff Horns and all these guys and the guys from America.
So he didn't need to prove anything.
Tim's trying to say, well, look what I've done.
I went through this crazy cut on my head.
And I, you know, whatever.
Who gives a damn shit about you going, you didn't have to.
My job, Tim, is to make sure you don't get cut.
You don't have to go through another 10 rounds of pain and stuff.
And you win the fight.
Listen, Mark, I still fight with Johnny Lewis to this day when I fought Carlos Zarate.
I'd won after four rounds.
I was six points in front.
It was under the eye.
Johnny used his influence to tell the doctor to stop the fight.
I wanted to kill him because I wanted to fight him.
I was going to knock this guy out.
But Johnny looked after me.
Johnny looked after his fighter.
That was Tim's corner's job.
And Tim, they were terrible.
They were terrible, Mark, you know.
They didn't even know.
They couldn't, Mark, they're putting three cotton buds in his head instead of just using
your adrenaline and pulling it together.
How can you pull a cut together when it's this wide apart and you've got stuff at the
I've seen it on the camera.
And Mark, if that was me, even in Tim's last fight that he got beaten in,
if that was me in Tim's corner, the first thing I'd do just before Tim goes to go out
is I'd spill the whole bucket of water in the ring.
The second thing I'd do is I'd put that much Vaseline on his face and the referee's
going to say, take some off, you know.
You've got to have been there and done this stuff before you're going to be able to do
Like I said, listen, with those guys who helped Costa, Costa's a freak.
If your grandmother or my grandmum trained Costa Zou, she's training a world champion.
Same as if they trained Mike Tyson.
If you can be blind, you can train Mike Tyson, you're going to train a world champion.
So don't worry that they were there with Costa.
They were there and, you know, it was just a part of a team that he had.
But, yeah, Costa was a special, special human and a special, special fighter.
Also, like Adelaide, hundreds and hundreds of amateur fights.
Oh, 300 or something, yeah.
Unbelievably huge career, relatively speaking, to what Tim had.
And I'm not taking anything away from Tim, but like the corner piece or the strategy
Sitting in the corner is extraordinarily important.
And I think, and you've often told me, but it's really about the person who's in the
corner has had the experience of what to do, which is what you're talking about.
Yeah, look at some of the fights with Brock Jarvis.
I mean, some of the fights where he was hurt and stuff, he would come back.
I'd do everything I could and I would tell him what he needed to do.
And I was blessed with Brock.
Brock was a great listener.
He would do what I told him.
But I'm saying, yeah.
What about that first fight in LA?
They thought that he was going to be knocked out.
They said they should have stopped the fight.
Thank God they didn't.
Again, hopefully, you know, they seen that I was in the corner and that the referee respected
And you knew you were going to look after him.
Yeah, that's 100%.
You know, if I didn't think that Brock could turn that around, I would have thrown the
towel in two rounds earlier.
But I knew what Brock's capable of.
I knew what his fitness levels was.
And I knew that he got hit, but he would recover because of his fitness.
But if he got out there that next round, Mark, and started to get hit early, I would have
stopped the fight straight away.
But he went out there and started hitting the other guy early.
And then the ref.
The referee stopped the fight, which, you know, again, is something that only people
who have been there and experienced it know how to handle.
So Tim's last fight, do you think he was ready for that fight?
Oh, 100 million percent.
But I'll tell you what happened, Mark.
You've got to realize this.
And you would recognize this straight away.
Me, as a fighter, if my father was this great and my father turned up, I'm going to show
I'm going to show him that.
I'm going to show him that.
I'm going to show him that.
I'm not better than him, but I want to show him.
Yeah, I do want to show him.
I want to show him that I can do anything he's done, I can do it better.
And people might say, Costa put no pressure on him.
Of course he put pressure on him.
And I'm not saying blame Costa because he was there.
No, of course not.
And if Costa was at every fight, it would be different because you're used to it.
You don't have to show.
You know, you're used to it.
You've got that, you've got that, you know, that, you know, that damn connection, you
Just give the one fight.
Then I heard Costa say that he had said something to the opponent and he's got in his head.
So then, you know, he's told Tim what to do.
You know, Tim's right.
Mark, you can't talk like that in front of the big fight.
This is what I would have said.
And the only thing I would have said is, mate, oh, and the other thing that really I thought
Tim, why, was when he was walking to the stadium, the fight, he's, you know, talking to Keith
Thurman about fighting and stuff, signing a contract.
Listen, if that was my fight, if that was Brock, I'd kick him up the ass and say, we're
You're talking about, you've got to be.
You've got to be concentrated on one thing.
And that's the Russian guy that he was fighting, talking to Keith Thurman and talking bullshit
Listen, we're here to fight.
This is fight day.
You don't talk and let anybody else challenge you.
And again, I blame, I blame, I half blame the corner as well.
They should have been around him to take him straight in there, not to talk to him, not
to sign autographs.
We'll do it after we win the fight.
And I hope Tim's listening because he needs somebody who's going to do that.
He needs somebody who's the boss.
Tim's the boss when he steps in the ring.
He's the boss when he steps in the ring.
He's the boss when he steps in the ring.
He's the boss when he steps in the ring.
But prior to stepping in the ring, if I'm the trainer, I'm the boss.
I'll tell him what to do.
I'll tell him how to do it.
And I've made some mistakes too, Mark, because, you know, as everybody says about Brock.
But like I said, Brock was one of the most ferocious, fittest fighters ever.
And then I had Hass Hampton, who's exactly the same.
Hass trains his backside off.
They work so hard to lose weight that, yeah, everything they get, they deserve.
You know, they've gone, they put themselves through hell.
Do you think that...
The corner for Tim didn't prepare him properly for this?
In other words, was he too confident?
I mean, like, it looked to me that he just thought he was going to walk through him all the time.
Like, he's done on a lot of fights.
Mark, walking down to one of the biggest fights of your life, trying to be two-time world champion,
and talking to other fighters and talking to people laughing, of course that's too cocky.
That's their job too.
Mark, my job as a trainer is to get that guy in the ring ready to kill somebody.
I mean, kills a bet, but that's boxing.
And he's walking, like I said, the arrival was all smiles, laughs, talking to other fighters, meeting other fighters.
Like I said, Mark, I went to the Olympics, I didn't give a damn about the march.
Of course I did, but I didn't march.
I didn't go to the party.
I jumped on a plane and went home because I was lost.
And that's the only mentality.
That's the Michael Jordan mentality.
That's the Kobe Bryant mentality.
If you don't have that in my sport, in boxing, you're...
Yeah, you're there for a little while, you know.
Listen, Mark, let me just get this right, all these people who are going to have a go at me.
Undefeated Bantamweight world champion, I defended three times.
Undefeated super Bantamweight champion, defended three times.
Undefeated featherweight champion, defended three times.
Won the junior lightweight title, but they gave me a draw.
So that's when you know you're a champion.
Anybody can win a world title in one year if they lose it the next year.
Because in this day and age, yeah, we've got all these guys that are just jumping on the bandwagon.
Love the social media and shit like that.
I didn't want social media, Mark.
I never stared at anybody in a fight.
No disrespect to George Kamosa, because I think that he's done an amazing job.
But they're talking about how long he stared at Lomachenko for.
Then Lomachenko said the greatest thing ever.
You know, we fight with eyes.
You're winning with this.
You know, so I mean, these guys today, I don't know, they're trying to impress their fans and their TV.
You know, the way...
Listen, there was no social media for me.
I had 15,000, 40,000 at my fight.
Because I let these do the talking.
This is what does the talking.
If you can do that, then you're fine.
And I think what a lot of people don't know is, by the way, is that the Zuma-Nelson first fight,
the decision that was reversed by the WBC two years ago.
Yeah, but Mark, the other thing they don't know, and this is what people have got to realize.
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We were made for this.
Back then, I'd been given the decision, I'm not fighting a zoom, there's no rematch.
I'd beat him nine rounds out of 12.
I was going to...
Well, except I'm happy that happened, Mark, because my life's the way it is because of that.
But yeah, I'm not giving a zoom and a rematch.
I had plans to fight Pernil Whitaker and so on and so on, you know?
But again, like I said,
I think after that fight, it took something away from me, Mark.
I was never the same after it.
I don't know why.
That's not an excuse.
I lost some fights, but I said, I always gave my best.
I prepared the best I could.
And yeah, I just wasn't the same person anymore.
So you were talking about training Brock Jarvis and you were talking about training Hass Hamden.
But you also trained Tyson for a while.
Danny Green, Saki Obika, Victor Chinian.
Of course, Danny Green, Victor Chinian.
The two Hussain brothers, Nader Hamden.
Garthwood for a while then?
And you know one thing I learned, Mark, about training?
I think that Johnny and I both knew, David, there's only one Jeff Fennick.
You've got to train these guys as individuals.
Some people can't do what other people can do.
Well, no, that's what I've often said about some of the fighters you've had.
No one should expect them to be Jeff Fennick because there's only one Jeff Fennick style.
I was watching some videos of you and I was watching your body work and I remember Brock Jarvis
was renowned for his body punches.
Great body punches.
But a lot of fighters are headhunters.
There's not a lot of body work.
Just explain the importance of going for the body, which I saw you do with a lot of your fights.
I mean, the bloke who won the Olympic gold medal that you ended up-
You worked on his body like it was crazy.
And I remember like early rounds, McCrory was actually, you could see he was in pain.
He was standing up all right, but I could see he was in pain.
And just explain the importance of body work.
You know, Mark, I tell all my fighters to learn to get in close and fight because I want to show you this.
If I'm here and here with you, we're close together, it's very hard for you to land a punch,
especially if I know where to put my head and I know where to put my other hand.
So if you learn to do that, you're much safer than being at a distance.
We're 50-50 at a distance.
But if you know how to fight in close, you get in there and you know how to.
You know how to use your shoulders and you know how to use your head and use your head to turn them around
and have your feet in the right position.
And foundation's everything.
If your feet are in a good position, you can make somebody miss, you can make them pay, you can, yeah.
So I try to explain to people how important it is for you to be able to get in close and fight.
And I was blessed.
That's what I was great at.
I'll never forget that there was a big story in one of the American magazines and it said,
Julio Cesar Chavez, the best in fighter, until Jeff Fennig came, you know.
I heard Mike Tyson say the same thing.
Mike Tyson, he said, Jeff.
Fennig's one of the best in close fighters of all time.
But I also remember something else about you.
And by the way, we have the UFC today and not many people do it today.
Lomachenko sort of does it a little bit.
But you are very good at using your shoulders and, you know, sort of wrestling a little bit,
like a little bit of grappling.
Not quite grappling, but you were good at grabbing people by the arm or, you know,
you pull them by the neck.
Tyson Fury does it a lot too as a big heavyweight.
Yeah, well, he does it because he thinks he's going to put his weight on them.
You're very good at.
I've done it tactically, Mark, too.
Yeah, but who taught you that?
Because it's like modern form of fighting.
It's not actually just standing back and boxing.
Yeah, yeah, but it was just.
And mine was brawling is when you're getting bashed as well.
I didn't get hit a lot, Mark.
The thing, if you look at fights today, they throw 100 punches in a round, I land 10.
I used to throw 100 punches and land 90.
Because I was in that position to punch and my feet were in position to land punches.
And who taught me?
It was just me sparring, you know.
But it looked like street fight.
A little bit of street fighting.
I would shoulder him.
I would push him off my shoulder.
Yeah, no, I see that.
Give me room and I would use my head to turn them around, you know.
Yeah, but that's sort of a form of grappling.
You know, it's a form of grappling.
And I remember watching Azuma Nelson in the LA fight anyway.
And Nelson, it looked like you threw him off because when you push him into a corner,
you relentlessly.
At him, at him, at him, at him.
I didn't give him room.
If you give these guys room.
You're in trouble.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Especially someone like him.
Could punch like hell, you know.
And then you put him in the corner.
Because I remember when Jeff Horn fought Crawford, I think it was.
And the referee would not let him brawl with him.
He sort of kept him off Crawford and then gave Crawford distance.
And Crawford, being the fighter he is, he was always going to tell him up.
Tell him how terrible.
But when Jeff Horn fought Manny Pacquiao, it was a different style of fight.
He was sort of sitting all over the top of him.
And looked like your style of fighting.
Didn't give him any room.
That was that kind of thing.
But yeah, it's certainly not my style.
No, he didn't fight your style, but he gave him no room.
And he was all over him.
And he was bullying him.
You know the craziest thing, Mark?
I was here with Justin Fortune and Freddie, all the guys who trained.
And they were, again, they were so confident.
Oh, he's not going to do a couple rounds.
Again, to Jeff Horn's credit, what a great performance that was.
And Jeff Horn in that fight, George Kambosis against DeFiro,
maybe two of the greatest upsets in boxing history.
And it was just pure Aussie aggression, the way I saw it.
They won out of aggression.
George won out of aggression.
They'd just been more aggressive than the other bloke.
And I think Jeff did too.
But I felt as though, when I was watching the Jeff Horn fight,
I thought to myself, has Fennec been involved in this?
Did you speak to Jeff Horn about anything?
It looked like you were.
Your style of training.
Well, like I said, I'll always support the Aussie boys.
But yeah, I didn't do anything with him in training.
Jeff, why hasn't someone done a series or a movie series or a TV series on you?
Well, I'm going to ask you to do it, Mark.
No, but Mark, look, I've been waiting.
I've been doing some stuff with Mark Fennessey and some other guys.
And I'm waiting, Mark, because I've got an amazing story that I'd like to tell.
And the most, the one thing that I want,
I want to tell is to mums and fathers that have children.
Listen, when your son says he's going to Jeff's house,
go down to Jeff's house and meet Jeff and meet his parents
and see what kind of people they are.
When your son tells you he's going to wherever,
just one day walk down and see if he's there.
And like I said, it's so important that, you know, parenting.
And it's so important, like, you know,
to make sure your son or daughter's around good people.
Being around good people.
Being around good people, it's good people.
And that's what you want to do.
Like, it looks like to me you're giving back a lot.
Mark, I want these parents to know that here was me,
this skinniest little kid, I'll give you a photo later,
that you've ever seen, all right, that was able to,
365 days of the year, my friends smoked dope.
I was with them every day.
They would steal, we'd go and they'd buy dope with theirs.
I'd keep my money.
And then they would put a bong in their mouth.
They'd pass it around.
They'd pass it to me.
I didn't need it.
Not once, Mark, have I put that in my mouth.
Not once have I had a drug.
Not once have I had a cigarette.
Not once have I had a cup of coffee.
I want my story to come out so people can say,
oh, instead of saying, oh, whoever,
I won't mention their names, but look at these two stars
who are out there doing cocaine.
You don't have to do that to have success.
You know, you don't have to do any of that shit to have success.
You know, you've got to be able to say no to,
and be a leader and not a sheep and follow everybody else.
You've got to be able to say, no, I'm not doing that.
And once we teach our kids that, the world will be a better place,
And the other thing is, Mark, what I love to try to get across is,
these bullies at school.
If somebody bullies my children, I'm going to tell my children
to go and beat the shit out of them.
And then you're going to have to have a meeting with the school
and stuff like that.
And then these parents come in.
I'll say, well, listen, you tell your kids not to be bullies,
and then I'll tell my kids not to punch a kid back in the face.
Yeah, forget these stupid rules at schools.
And that's why we have suicides.
That young girl who died recently, 12 years old,
she was a friend of a friend of ours.
And I mean, wow, you know, I wish I could have spoke to her.
I wish I could have, you know,
took her to school and walked her to school and told these people
to, you know, yeah, to shut their mouths.
It's, you know, we live in a, yeah, I don't know,
everybody wants to say it's a great,
we live in a world where there are too many people getting away
Like I said, today these people go and they're breaking the house,
they rob your cars and stuff.
They go to court and they're back doing it the next week, you know.
These bullies are the same.
They go there, they pick on somebody's children,
these poor kids, and they're doing it to somebody else
the next week, you know.
Because on one hand we've got all these people being very woke,
like, you know, you can't do this, you can't do that,
you can't say this, you can't say that.
But on the other hand we've got, on the flip side,
we've got people bullying other people through social media
and sort of contributing to people, young kids committing suicide.
Mark, but you need real people to go and talk to them.
Josh had a car, now he's gone.
But I would have loved to be the guy representing him.
I would have walked in and said, first thing,
let's do the drug test to the whole club.
Forget the footy players.
Let's go and see your CEO.
Let's go and see these guys.
And that's the first thing I would have used.
That's the first thing I would have used in his defence.
And then the second thing I would have used in his defence,
I'd say, do you have a child?
Has your child ever done anything wrong?
Give this guy a chance.
Give this kid a second chance.
I mean, what, he got in trouble, you're going to ruin his life?
And what happens when they ruin their lives, Mark?
They become worse.
They become worse.
They think that's the person they are.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They become worse, yeah, because they've taken away their love.
Listen, I understand it's not good for the sport.
It's not good for the kids.
If that's the case, go to all those rich schools and you have to,
every kid that's at school, you're going to have to expel them
because that's what they do.
You know, we've got a football player.
We need somebody that's honest and go and talk to these people
and be blankly honest and tell them the truth
and tell their parents the truth, you know.
I grew up, like I said, I'm blessed.
I didn't have a drug.
But I know some of the richest people, all their kids were doing drugs.
Well, the parents are doing drugs.
Parents and kids.
Wake up this world.
That's why they don't care where they're going now.
And now today we take our kids to a restaurant
and instead of letting them interact and try to learn what's happening
in the world, we give them a freaking dumb iPad
and let them sit there and do shit all night
and look at stupid things all night, you know.
Listen, that's why if I was voting, I'd vote for Donald Trump
I don't care what anybody says about him.
If anybody loves me or hates me, Donald Trump's been out there.
He's paid that mob for his land.
He knows how the world operates.
He's been a mug and been a thug and whatever else you want to call him.
Done all these things with whatever he's been accused of.
He's stopped it now.
He's got a second chance and he's trying to make the world better.
That's my opinion.
And there's something else that you really...
I mean, that was well put.
There's something else that I want to just quickly touch on before we close
that you're pretty passionate about.
Too many fights go for too long.
Corners not prepared for Italian or referees don't stop the fight.
Can you just share with me?
I mean, I know when you're training your fighters,
you're very concerned about when they're sparring, et cetera,
that they don't get hit too hard and there's not too much brain damage.
Just explain the importance of this now.
Yeah, it's so, so important,
especially seeing what's happened to certain people over the years.
My great, beautiful friend, Mario Fennec, who has dementia,
whether it's from rugby league or not, nobody can really determine.
But when you see how these guys are today, Mark,
it's really, really important.
And, you know, it's important for them,
the corner, but it's more important for the referee.
And like I said, these guys, these referees today are incompetent.
I mean, I would like just to tell the referee, listen,
put your son in Tim Zushu's shoes and let him be bleeding where he can't see.
And yeah, would you like your son to be there?
Of course they're going to say no.
Well, then look after somebody else's son.
If you want somebody to look after your son, look after theirs as well.
But Mark, like I said, the sport of boxing, you've got to realise this.
This is what I want to just say really quick.
It's you scratch my back, I scratch yours.
I'm the promoter.
I'm the promoter.
I'm the promoter.
I'm the promoter.
I'm the promoter to Mark.
I fly you to Thailand.
You get off the plane.
I give you your food.
I give you your room.
I send you a couple of girls up.
Now you've got to judge a fight.
Who are you going to?
Who are you going to?
You're talking about I'm the promoter and you're the judge.
No, I'm the promoter.
Yeah, and I'm the judge.
You're the judge, yeah.
Who are you going to?
I've just brought you over, flown you over.
You're in business class.
You're getting all your food for free.
You've got some girls sent to your room, which let me tell you,
it happens, don't worry.
And who are you going to favour if it's a close fight?
The guy who sends you over there.
Just in my instinct.
That's exactly what it is, Mark.
I'm not saying you're a cheat.
I won't say they're cheats.
It's their instinct.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
You're my brother.
If something happens to you, it's going to happen to me.
It's funny you should say that because the allegations were that Don King
in the first Zoomer fight did that with the judges.
Yeah, like I said, I don't say those judges cheated.
I just say they're incompetent.
I want to ask you a question, Mark.
If somebody that works for you can't do the job,
you say, look, champ, here in the fights, especially in Australia,
these guys, somebody wins by six rounds,
they give it to the other guy by six rounds.
I mean, it's impossible, Mark.
These guys are incompetent.
And I'm not going to say it because they don't cheat.
I don't believe that.
They're just incompetent.
And they're obviously thinking about that instinct that we told you
about helping somebody that they know.
Yeah, forget that.
When all the judges, and that should arrive the day before the fight,
have dinner together, not with anybody else,
and just say, forget the name.
There's no Mike Tyson because you're going to favor them
if you're in Australia.
You're going to favor him if you're in America because of Don King.
There's just a red and a blue corner.
You don't go to dinner with the promoter.
You get flown there through an organization.
They fly you there.
They do everything properly, and then the fight's proper,
which will never be.
And what's the future of boxing in the light, mate?
Do you think it's got a good future?
Listen, I think we've got great fighters today, but I don't know.
I'd like to see the likes of the Dana Whites and some
of the others coming to the sport of boxing.
Yeah, I think that-
Yeah, I think that he's the ultimate professional at everything.
I mean, I'd say he would sleep maybe six hours a day.
He's always working.
So we need those people.
We need those people.
And like I said, people talk about money and, oh, how much do they pay?
How much do they pay?
Listen, if everybody gets together and work together,
then we'll have a great sport.
But until that, it's always going to be-
You're there, or I'm there, and you're there, or he's good,
and he's no good.
People talk about me every day, but guess what I say to them?
None of you have done what I do, so I don't care what you say about me.
People don't like me, because I tell the truth.
For instance, once, Michael Zaraffa, and I love Michael Zaraffa too,
and I did the commentary, and then at the end, the other person,
once I said he- I thought he won.
Now, Michael wasn't happy, but like I said, I think we've both grown today,
and like I said, I admire everything he does.
But like I said, I'm just going to tell the truth.
It's my job, and I'm on a TV show.
I mean, look, I just got the sack from Fox for why, I don't know.
But they said, well, Steve Crawley said there was going to be some changes,
and I go back to the next fight, and every single person was the same,
except we had Alex Volkanovski, who's an MMA fighter.
We had Jonathan Browns, who's an AFL player.
What do they know about boxing?
Yeah, yeah, but still, how do they know what's going on in a boxing fight?
I mean, it's crazy.
That's the world we live in, Mark, you know?
That's the world we live in.
And like I said, I'm not in one of those boys club.
Like, I'm happy to say it.
Steve Crawley and all those guys who do the- they're all out on the drink together.
I've got a job to do.
I go and do the job the best I can, and then I go home.
I don't need to go out and drink with everybody to lick backsides to keep my job.
And I told Steve Crawley when he first said he was going to make changes,
I said, if that's your opinion and you're going to make changes,
and it's better for the sport, I'll take everything you're saying on board,
and I'm happy to step aside.
The next week I went there and I seen it wasn't- it was worse.
And now they've got people doing the commentary who have had three professional fights and stuff.
I mean, Steve Crawley's a joke.
And yeah, it's a joke.
And have you always- Jeff, you've always been- stand out on your own.
You're not anybody's patsy, ever.
Mark, I said, my dad did teach me one thing.
He said, if I go-
If I go out with you, Mark, I'm going home with you.
If something happens to you, Mark, I didn't care if I was 25-time world champion.
I didn't care if it was going to cost me $200 million.
Nobody's touching you while I'm beside you, brother.
They're going to touch me before they touch you.
And I'm- I'll never change that.
And I'll tell you something else, because people know, on Instagram and on Facebook,
when these dumb, tough guys on their computers say things,
I give them back more than they can ever give anybody.
You know, oh, you said- yeah, of course I'm going to say,
well, then you should have said the first shit in the first place.
I wouldn't have had to reply to you.
You know, just- yeah, you don't have to- if they're going to bag me, Mark,
any time until the day I die, if I'm walking down the street and I'm 100 years old
and somebody says something, I'm going to punch them in the face if I'm capable of it.
Good on you, Mark.
Geoff Fennec, mate, I love seeing you.
I love actually having this conversation with you, man.
But what's more important is that Australians get to hear you, mate,
because you are one of our greatest sportsmen ever, and actually,
on the world stage, already been recognized as the greatest featherweight ever.
Good on you, mate.
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