Think advertising on TikTok isn't for your business?
We've generated over 100,000 leads,
which has converted into over 40,000 sales
for our pet insurance policies.
My name is Trey Farrow.
I am the CEO of Spot Pet Insurance.
TikTok's Smart Plus AI-powered automation
takes the guesswork out of targeting, bidding,
and optimizing creative.
If I can advertise on TikTok, you can too.
Drive more leads and scale your business today,
Head over to getstarted.tiktok.com slash tiktokads.
Are we recording?
Hi, I'm Michelle Bernstein,
an award-winning chef, restaurateur, and mom.
I have a lot on my plate,
including my psoriatic arthritis symptoms.
That's why I was prescribed Cosentix.
It helps me move better.
Cosentix Secukenumab is prescribed
for people two years of age and older
with active psoriatic arthritis.
Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentix.
Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis.
An increased risk of infection
and lowered ability to fight them may occur,
like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial,
fungal, or viral infections.
Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms
like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough,
had a vaccine or plan to,
or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen.
Serious allergic reactions
and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur.
Learn more at 1-844-COSENTIX or cosentix.com.
Ask your rheumatologist about Cosentix.
I'm Mike Boris, and this is Straight Talk.
Ivan and Nathan Cleary, welcome to Straight Talk, boys.
Thanks for having us.
Good to see you, mate.
We only saw each other after Grand Final.
That was two years ago, I think.
I missed last year.
I think it was three.
That was after the first one.
You said you couldn't believe I actually won one, so.
Let's take that back.
Is there a secret?
Not that you're going to tell us a secret anyway.
If I did, if I knew, I wouldn't tell you.
I'm a big believer in just preparation,
giving me confidence.
Always got doubts coming in,
but if I prepared the way I wanted to,
then I get to game day and I've got no excuses.
I just got to a point where if we hadn't have succeeded
in the 2020 season, I would have left the game, so.
Actually, what's interesting about LeBron James
and his son, they play together.
I mean, mate, it wasn't much, you know.
I need a couple of years.
Well, it was over, didn't it, mate?
Ivan and Nathan Cleary, welcome to Straight Talk, boys.
Thanks for having us.
Good to see you, mate.
We only see each other after Grand Finals.
It was two years ago, I think.
I missed last year.
I think it was three.
I think it was after the first one.
The first one, was it?
You said you couldn't believe I actually won one, so.
I might as well take that back.
Well, I have to say thanks for coming.
Like, it's only a couple of days after the Grand Final
and one of my mates, you're both still standing up,
or at least Nathan, you're still standing up.
Yeah, it's been a tough couple of days.
I've had a few sore heads,
but I'm feeling pretty good now and, you know,
happy to be here and sort of reminisce it.
Yeah, well, I guess congratulations is the most important.
It's pretty obvious, but I think that it'd just be great
if you could talk us through, Nathan,
if you could just talk us through what does it mean,
not mean to win the Grand Final,
but what does it mean to celebrate post-Grand Final?
Not many people we've ever experienced,
even go to the fan day, not many people ever get to do that.
So usually we do the fan day, the day after the Grand Final
and, like, everyone's just in the worst state.
So this year we changed it.
We did it yesterday instead.
Had a little, went on stage and saw all that
and then we just signed jerseys for about,
60 hours so it's um that part of it is like yeah it's tough when everyone's hung over and all that
but the the few days following the game is like it's just euphoric like surreal feeling like a
blur too i guess honestly yeah it is um one of the coolest things we did this year was went straight
back to the leagues club and it's the busiest i've ever seen the leagues club but you couldn't see
any part of the ground just just people everywhere going crazy so that part of it was um yeah it was
amazing to sort of share that and feel what it's like for people of penrith to um experience another
grand final win and um yeah it's it's an amazing feeling it's sort of like um i don't know to some
extent you guys are sort of keep the community together a little bit like uh it's something
everybody hangs out for him in in not just penrith but the whole area that that your club
encompasses there's a little bit of a responsibility for you to some extent like
extra pressure not just with your teammates family and you took in case of you too but
i mean ivan do you who carries that responsibility do you yeah definitely um it is a responsibility
one that we take really seriously and uh drives us like i keep hearing stories about you know
people that um you know they're they're you know they got kids who are six seven years old and
they only know of us winning grand finals so yeah i don't want to make the kids upset you know um
it's just yeah it's it's just amazing you know and it's just so good to see to be able to have
that ability to make so many people so happy you know it's just um yeah it's crazy but
that one that yeah certainly drives us yeah but the flip side of it is nearly obligation to some
extent i mean like you might feel just as disappointed for the fans like in a real
sense of disappointment for them yeah but the thing is that we don't it's not you know all
about winning for them we just want to you know we want to just make them proud of us or make
them proud of themselves so that's that's the main thing that drives us and that's more than
winning so um i think as long as you know we're playing and acting in a certain way we're going to
that you know they makes them proud then that'll be enough i can't believe i've got both of you
by the way i just listen i'm just sitting here what the fuck too clear he's like like it's it's
pretty mad like that there's all these levels of responsibility and what i mean by that is i'm not
trying to turn this into away from being a you know great celebration i but but i think it's
important to talk about this sort of stuff there's all these levels of responsibility there's you as
a son you as the father you as both of you
as a family members both your families support the club um your girlfriend she supports the club
um then you've got all your mates who some are staying some are going there's a level of
responsibility them to play the very best to do the best you can on the field then there's the
you know the the general area then there's business business concerns like you know you've got
you're you're there with uh drink west then there's you know then there's the fta you know
from the area groups like uh you sort of have a level of responsibility for them too there's a lot
of people sort of hanging in there for you to do well
and on the flip side there's a lot of people waiting for you to fuck up look i've got mates
and they're not rooster supporters but they're mates and then they say
and i but i had arguments with my grandfather i want a sydney team to win between melbourne and
sydney and they're saying ah fuck pendleton won too many games you know you get that thing you
know what i mean stuff it's someone else let's share the spoils so there's the flip side then
not your haters but the people are sort of death riding you a little bit
process does that come into your head before the grand final or you can eliminate that i'm sure it's
in ivan's head yeah i think i've honestly never really thought about it the way you just described
it um i think if i was thinking like that it's probably adds a lot more pressure yeah but in
the moment it's honestly just playing for my teammates you want you want them to be happy
and playing for just the club as a whole and you just want to be successful you want that feeling
of winning and what comes with that is the the repercussions of keeping everyone happy it keeps
the community happy
um i think that's saying really uh evident about penrith is when we're doing well everyone just
seems to be happier business seems to be thriving and in the area yeah yeah for sure that's pretty
cool yeah and you just you can just feel it like i reckon when we first moved to penrith to now
is such a different vibe about the place and even just going to a cafe and seeing everyone just sort
of happy and um for us to have some sort of part of that is is pretty cool and everyone's constantly
coming up to us and just thanking us for what we're doing and um i think that adds a an extra
um yeah wanting to do well for for the area how do you deal with it i've been with the players
because you know you're the sort of you're the leader in the group in terms of coaching he's
leader on the field but you're the leader every other moment of it and uh you've got to make sure
the young fellas don't think too much about these things they're gonna um distract them especially
on the day but at the same time you'd be probably fully aware of all those layers that i just went
through with you yeah i think that's part of leadership you know i think that's part of the
absorbing pressure and you know i mean things like that like i actually thought about it this
year we had a um we had a new major sponsor in my place and and because of the success you have as
you know all of a sudden the commercial reality of that is that whoever wants to sponsor you have
to pay more and i'm thinking here's a you know a new sponsor we had the old one had been there for
10 years and and he was doing these ads and i was spending all this money i was like oh man look
we better we better do well again you know so that does occur
to me you know you know because i i obviously in my role i'm you know i have spent more time and
more connected with you know those types of guys where yeah it's not the for the players it's
really clear like we you know we have high standards and um you know we aim to win so and
they know that but apart from that that away from that they just need to be you know getting
themselves ready to be able to prepare the best they can train as hard as they can and ultimately
play well i mean someone would be listening to this watching this now and anybody who looks at
nathan's instagram page anybody watches him play and you know kick field goals and you know
you know set up try to score tries under pressure like last year's the year before the grand final
and and then they look at you sitting here now and you're as cool as a cuba by the way your
old man's always been the cool he's he's always been cool he's always been cool you know he has
like he tells me that nobody has just been cool but i get his sense that underneath um there's
the the legs are going the arms are going the machinery is really going it's churning
how do you maintain both you how do you maintain that level of uh steadiness because you know
you're trying to make sure your teammates don't see it the opposition definitely doesn't you don't
want them to see it you don't want the opposition coach bellamy to see it even if you've got a
crook show you don't want to see anything you you've got to play a game you don't want the
any of the fellas to feel like you might be a bit nervous how do you individually
i'd love to know how you individually do it and do you as a dad coach him to do it you say mate
this is what i've always done or have you just sort of inherited it well i reckon that he can
talk to you about um just being um being happy with how he's prepared i reckon he can tell us
the story about that personally i that like i've always hid my emotions mainly and so it's
you mentioned a bit about um doing that um which you there's a bit there's a balance between being
able to actually show um particularly your players and the staff that yeah you aren't perfect and
you do get nervous and fail and all that kind of stuff so there's a there's a bit of a balance there
um other than that it's just my nature you know i just i i get nervous i have you know i have doubts
um you know we all have fears all that stuff but yeah i just tend to you know keep it all inside
of me so um but i have you know tried to show and part of the you know
um we might talk about later but i've that's become a a bit of a um improvement for me
where i'm actually giving more of my emotions and particularly to the people that are closest to me
yeah that's and we've all got something to learn about that by the way and what are you doing
yeah i'm a big believer in just preparation giving me confidence um i've definitely always
got doubts coming in but i'll constantly remind myself that if um i prepared the way i've wanted
to then i get the game down i've got no excuses i think
early in my career where i wasn't really um i guess wired like that i got to game day and i was
i felt like sometimes i wasn't even enjoying it because it felt like sort of anxious and
felt like oh i don't know if i've done everything i could and sort of give myself an excuse to not
play well where now i'm really setting my ways of what i need to do and then once i get to the game
i'm i feel the freest i've felt the whole week it's like it's this is the fun part and this is
what i've enjoyed doing since i was you know a young kid um so why not enjoy it and i've been
and i'm sort of similar to that as well i've definitely learned to be more vulnerable um
particularly to younger players i'm not scared to say to them that yeah i feel nervous because
i know that they're probably feeling nervous and if they've seen you guys say that to them and they
they feel a bit better that they can it's just human nature really i don't feel like they're
in the wrong for feeling nervous and um yeah i constantly have nerves i constantly have doubts
but um i always just think back to my preparation to give me confidence and definitely got routines
of breathing and things i like to do during the week that sort of centers me and um gets me ready
for the game sort of like maybe this is a good maybe a good point to talk about this um
you remember freddie is freddie was always in a nature natural things like you know like well
not always yeah but he became that way you know what like get take your shoes off go on the grass
you've had him at origin have you yeah so uh you know what he's like uh
and but freddie was always happy to be vulnerable i actually don't know if he has any emotions but
but like you know i mean like he and do you learn those things you're talking about now
you know the preparedness in a managed way to show how you're feeling but that it doesn't have
to be vulnerable as such but just show how you're feeling that preparedness have you learned that
from watching the young guys in your club because it is much more acceptable in their age group in
their cohort of you know age uh yeah yes and no i sort of was a fair bit uh deliberate about it as
well i was probably about five years ago when i first came back to to panthers i was struggling
mentally um and i'd learn over time to actually share things with my wife too because i wasn't
always doing that um so that was a journey that we took together where i started at least you know
i would i would be vulnerable with her about things that i was you know where i was you know
doubtful or i've just felt like i was you know i was you know i was you know i was you know i was
struggling or whatever and so eventually it sort of became um i think i'm as a as my role as a leader
i need to show the young guys and show people it's actually okay to do that um yeah so it's been i
guess a bit of a journey it's uh but it's it's definitely been yeah i've made a choice to to do
that and then as you mentioned before it's a bit of a balancing act because yeah because as a leader
i can't be like constantly walking around saying oh my god i don't know what i'm doing or yeah
it's uh interesting yeah
because you're not a bit similar to robo in some ways because you don't you're not a big
gaff you're not getting on there talking a whole lot of stuff in front of the media and you know
you're pretty reserved you're economical with your words it's probably the way you're saying it um
but at that same time that doesn't mean that you're not prepared to show how you feel in
relation to other other people and you particularly the people around you your family and your players
one of the things i've noticed just watching the east club is that
a lot of the um islander boys are very much that way they're quite honest and up front and open
particularly when it comes to family kids wives mums dads brothers sisters and there's a lot to
learn out of that from from my point of view even when it comes to their religion um you know how
they feel that they don't care they'll do it in front of everybody and we it we we sort of started
first thing with sonny bill like when he used to do his muslim prayers and stuff like when he went
he was happy to do it in front of everybody and he was happy to do it in front of everybody and
not worry about what everybody thought is that a new development rugby league you reckon
from where say when you played uh it's definitely different um i was fortunate enough to spend a few
years playing you know in new zealand yeah and then coaching over there so i lived there for 10
years so i learned a lot about the polynesian culture over there from from like the late 90s
you know when i left to go there you know playing in um sydney rugby league i was playing in sydney rugby league
in those days it was just there was nowhere near the the polynesian element so i learned a lot about
um culture i learned a lot about body language as well um where yeah i mean it's it's said that
60 of communication is body language so for a guy that doesn't necessarily like to talk that much um
i really like that so just things like touch and and how you hold yourself and they do a lot of
that um but there's also different polynesian backgrounds you know the kids that grow up in
australia the polynesians are different to the ones that grow up in new zealand for example they
they're a bit more they're a bit more brash and a little bit more confident than a lot of the kids
that come from new zealand they're very because the big thing in polynesian culture is the respect
for their elders and yeah a little bit shinily yeah so there's a real there's actually quite a
big big difference where when they're all together in family they all kind of act look like they all
look the same but when they're in different settings uh they can um and adapt they can be
yeah be different but i'll tell you one they're a lot of fun generally speaking they they love they
love the fun part so if you try and make it too serious all the time
just won't work so you've got to you've got to let them be themselves i think anyway yeah i mean
we might just talk about a couple of the boys in the club in the team i mean you're going to miss
some of your great your mates um fish harris jerome law obviously i've seen i've been watching
your posts um look at reading those and um you know the putting up some special photographs of
those two in particular um how much of their culture no i'm not just talking about pacific
islander culture but i'm just talking about their culture from pacific island families but also
growing up in the west how much of that rubs off on you yeah a lot of it um some of my best mates
are yeah pacific islanders or um you know fish is moldy as well and just the the energy they bring
is something that is unrivaled really um and i think they've had a big influence on our culture
and building that and dad sort of touched on the fun side of it but also when it's time to work
and and fish is as the main leader of that he's probably one that's not as loud he let his actions
do the talking but um off the field it's fun they they really bring that family um vibe to the club
as well i think um just getting everyone included they want people to indulge in their culture and
and enjoy what they enjoy and um yeah they've both for me and fish in particular have just been
massive um generators of our culture and what has become today and and we sorely sorely miss but i
think they're two guys that will leave a legacy for younger guys to follow into and what they've
built is is not saying that's going to be going to be taken away and um i think they can hold their
heads high and knowing that they've left that legacy on our club it's funny i read something
i think was jerome louis at it um that um he actually think about his little kid and uh
tahoe's little boy like um actually being the next generation of to be to be the four four wins
they're saying they're gonna they're gonna beat it
it up that's pretty cool like yeah but uh and they're actually sort of passing that legacy
onto their families like i'd never heard of that sort of stuff before like in the clubs that i've
been involved with it's it's sort of like the canterbury bulldogs of of the um 1980s and 90s
you remember them where the bulldogs are berries whatever they're called but like that process
hueses and you know mortars and all that and their kids came on and played i mean do you feel like
that's sort of we're talking dynasties here mate but uh are you i'm serious it is it is in some
respects are you can you see that i hadn't really thought about it until you just said that but
that's the fact that romey and visor are talking about that that doesn't surprise me that's pretty
cool yeah they asked there he was i'm pretty sure yeah it was jerome i'm pretty sure one thing i
know like their life goes pretty fast yeah um i mean yeah we've been in the penrith area as a
family for 12 years
now wow nathan was 14 when we came and just to be sitting here now having achieved what we have
is just mind-blowing you know it's just 12 years gone like that so yeah i guess it won't be too
long before can you imagine romey's little um lizzie uh yeah he just grows before his eyes but
uh he's a very talented little kid too so already there's every chance he will be so i need to know
from you i'm like how do you do it like
i mean it's it's it's a big question i get it but you know you lost a couple of players last year
um you lost a couple of plays the year before uh you just keep i don't know whether is it because
you've got a good nursery of people out there what's is there a secret i mean i know not that
you're gonna tell us a secret anyway i wouldn't tell you that yeah well i think we um we have a
great club for starters it's very well-known and it's a great club for starters it's very well-known
from the the very top um you know through management and the board and um all our
coaching staff all the way through the players you know and that's easy to say but it's harder
to do you know and that's probably our greatest strength as a club so the systems we have in place
are respected by everyone and then you know they're followed um we do have a great nursery
of players as well we have a good pathway system um but some of the players we have lost you will
never be able to replace them you know if i mentioned guys like philly army kicker i'll be
carousel you know steven crichton um special lenny like like and now fish and rami like you
can't replace those guys like for like you know um i forgot about kiko and and yeah right now like
yeah there's burden before that it was um yeah like it's just been it's unbelievable so many
more like um but um you know what we do have is we have an incredible you know leaders in our team
led by you know nat and as aeo and still have
a lot of talent in our team but we you know each year these boys grow together the the chemistry
the ones that stay become stronger um and as i said that we have good systems you know good
chemistry and good staff and whoever comes in um has seen you know there's a legacy that these guys
that leave leave and you know it's easier for them to transition into the role so it's it's a
never-ending search to try and keep doing this and we've got to do it again next year and we
we i guess we just step into each and every day we don't never live in the past and to this point
it's um it's working for us but we also know that you know it could you know if you don't keep your
eye on the ball it can change quickly so but a bit of you but are you always playing and you know
you know the roster you know obviously you know the roster you know the salary cap you know what
you can and can't fit you know who's coming for renewal etc um are you do you do you actually sit
back and plan with the team or is it um i haven't clearly done that i don't know i don't know i don't
like look no kid who's in 17 he's looking pretty good he's in the new south wales origin team or
queensland origin wherever it is he's coming through the process he is a good marker for to
replace isaiah when he leaves and yeah retires yeah we we there's definitely that sort of stuff
going on it just um sometimes it depends um because it comes a bit quicker than you think
uh you know we never really wanted you know anticipated guys like you know
stephen cryden and spencer lenny to leave but once they get we've been fortunate enough to
you know we've basically had a year to at least try and plan for those guys and they've all
stayed that extra year and played really well and we're always you know in the background um
yeah just trying to bring players through uh like we we got lucky this year we got paul
alamotti from the from the bulldogs and i think he went over and above what we ever thought he
was going to do and he ended up starring in the grand final for us so sometimes you get a bit of
luck and they just you know they fit better than you know they fit better than you know
you think or the the fact that we even we were able to sign him was a shock to me that he was
they've been available um so that yeah i guess and that's i guess one thing about you know um
success that all of a sudden you get players who want to come to your club you know whereas trust
me when i first got to penderth 12 years ago that wasn't the case so yeah you had one young fellow
but like something like alamotti for example do you when he comes across do you sort of look at
his you know videos of his past previous games and sort of say okay i can improve you by doing
these these these things or is it just improved by virtual being in a side like this i just it
depends i mean for for paul alamotti paul was uh he's only 20 now so he's 19 years old a star as a
junior um i was actually wondering what there must be something wrong with him the fact that he's
that we can actually sign him why the dogs are letting him go but i guess they were just on a
bit of a different track looking for you know um quickly and i think that's what i was wondering
because success maybe i don't know but so i met him i thought you know it's just one he's got to
fit you know he's got to fit um character wise so i think that's really important well what does
that mean oh you just want to get we want to get good characters as people who are going to fit
our values and um not just good players but the good people they're going to train hard they're
going to be able to play the way we like to so you got to be fit enough and um all that kind of
stuff but do you actually set a set of values for the club for the football team like well i said i
should but the players have set the values yeah but they actually write them down somewhere so
like you know respect you know like yeah a series of virtues yeah i thought it was important the
players came up and we do it each and every year we'll revisit them and see if we have to
adjust them or whatever and then when someone comes in like a new player comes into the club
would you sort of sit him down and say meet the senior senior members of the team the team and uh
or and these and who takes us through these values like dude this is what we expect how do you
play the game like yeah that's it's not as uh formal as that but it's definitely yeah they
find out pretty quick what what's required yeah that's again the the we have a amazing staff and
but the players themselves we have an incredible leadership group in our um in our team i'm you
know i've never seen anything like i've been lucky enough to be involved in anything like it um a lot
of them have come through together so that helps um and obviously the more experience the bigger
the games the you know all of a sudden there's evidence that this stuff works and i think that's
you know that helps as well when i'm obviously watching the game and uh the energy and the
momentum that comes with energy um especially in the second part of the second half um on the
weekend it just looked like penrith was 10 years younger and i don't mean that in a a bad way i
just mean that you guys look like younger keener more enthusiastic i i guess when melvin's try was
just a little bit more enthusiastic i i guess when melvin's try was just a little bit more
you just you knew how to take advantage of that you knew how to sort of keep the momentum that's
you on the field i mean you know ivan's up there in the box sort of sending instructions out but
do you know immediately it's time to get on top a bit we better take advantage of this
uh yeah usually i think it's more like you're right it's just like a field thing um it's
probably not saying that we speak about too often on the field but um particularly people
in this spine the latest sort of accelerate and go towards that i think that's saying
that we've been quite lucky to have over these last few years is it sort of feels like we've
got gears in us that we can that's what it looked like to me you could go another gear and probably
had one or two in you yeah and that's the thing it's probably been a bit frustrating this year
that like we've always sort of just been like hanging in games and then once we get pushed
then we retaliate we're like all right now we'll go up a gear we haven't really blown away teams
this year yes you did you in the in the first uh preliminary semi against the roosters that was the
best game you guys have had for a long time we knew we needed to get to it
it lasted a game of blue bat um i was out there and uh my god i just wish i enjoyed it no i didn't
enjoy it at all i wasn't sure what to wear so but someone said don't wear your suit
no but it was it was actually great it was a great atmosphere it was rugby league what it
used to be when i was a kid growing up that's what it feels like to me yeah it was just everyone's
into it i mean it's a pretty hostile crowd to be in front of yeah yeah they love playing the east
you know that well it's just like going down to melbourne i guess there's the same feeling but
you guys actually did kick into a big gear that was a big gear change and then i think every game
you played after that was a new gear yeah it looked like that and then even in the grand final
you look like you just kept increasing the gear kept saying okay well you you're gonna match me
i'll go this way you're gonna match me i'm gonna go this way that's what i felt like to me and i'm
wondering about the leadership on the on the on the team the boys you guys are you talking to
each other you're saying listen let's do this let's do this let's do this let's do this let's do this
let's just i can crack them again let's just put it into them harder yeah and again like that i
think you fall back to your training and also experience and i think all of those as you're
sort of talking about that all comes from our training it's something we talk about our training
constantly um the hard work we put in we know that it's going to pay us back when we need it
because when you're actually in the moment it's like everyone's pretty fatigued and just sort of
trying to gel together but everything's happening so fast um so you probably don't get time to say
that in the moment but you sort of get looks at it and you're like oh my god i'm not going to
each other and sort of know that it's time to step it up a bit and i think that's saying that
where us as a group through experience um that sort of feel of it has been that we just haven't
even had to speak about now it's sort of sort of know that you know each other and particularly
in grand finals you know each other that well yeah yeah and it's something that's combinations
experience experience in big games um i think that's probably when i felt it the most on on
sunday night where you didn't even really need to say stuff to each other just knew what was
required and and what was going to happen i'm going to give you
oh man a big rap here but i i i can and tell me if i'm wrong the rap you deserve but obviously
you deserve it but tell me if what i was thinking was wrong so someone said to me the other day
ah you know um just before the game bellamy's a genius blah blah and he's a great coach
billy alex a great coach um and i said well you know what's interesting i think craig
craig bellamy looks for weaknesses in teams and exploits weakness
he'll work out where there's a weakness and he'll play at that all night until he gets through
and i said on the other hand ivan's i don't know if ivan's like that but i think ivan's
really good at getting the best out of his team and the question then becomes is the coach who can
identify weakness working out his strategies to go to the weakness
better than the coach who can get the best out of every player on the team and and i sort of
like that's the way the game was played and i think bellamy was trying to find weaknesses he's
maybe your shoulder or whatever the case may be but he couldn't find it and it seemed like to me
they got frustrated watching it on telly i'm talking about especially when i watched the
second time it looked like they were getting frustrated they think we can't find a weakness
but on the other hand you guys are just getting the best out of each other
and that's what it looked like to me is there any am i anywhere near that or we're just making shit
because that's how i felt i don't know if it was that deliberate but i i what i will say is if you
look at the melbourne storm there's not a lot of weakness so i couldn't sort of find no you won't
find weakness in them no so that's so yeah you're probably right you end up spending more time you
know on your own team which i think we do most of the time there'll be some games throughout the
year it might be a team that's littered with injuries or you know down on form or or whatever
where it's a bit easier to you know actually find a weakness and you and you you know those types of
games you might find a weakness in them and you know those types of games you might find a weakness in them
zero in on that kind of stuff a bit more but for this game against this you know type of opposition
and the bigger the games is i think handling you know basically your headspace is something that
we've worked a lot a lot on and each and every player you know will tell you it's the bigger
the games and the bigger the pressure it's different you know and and it becomes more
than just playing football you know it's about you know playing yourself you know in a lot of ways so
spend a lot of time on that and um and i guess that's that's that's one big way of trying to get
the best out of everyone but do you do you sort of say to yourself um pap and allison's quick but
don't give him space do you go through those processes yeah they'll be yeah well we'll we'll
we'll generally talk about you know the opposition where they what their strengths are how they like
to play you know if they've got a certain style or whatever and and a lot of spend a lot of time
on that um each and every guy knows the players they're up against and yeah and they're going to
their own nuances and and that type of stuff so there is a lot of work that goes in around you
know and knowing your enemy um but probably more work more time built right throughout the season
on making sure that on the biggest day you know we're gonna we can you know play our best footy
so it's sort of like getting you to peak yeah at the right time too yeah you did mention this is
this is not really it wasn't really um a plan but uh we hit the finals in fairly average form i'd say
we're actually just trying to give the roosters a you know false sense of hope you did but like
yeah i just think the boys knew they just knew we had nothing come back which was obviously
yeah fair help but they just kind of they just went up a level you could see it at training
and and that gives me great confidence how we prepare and it was just like that week of
preparation was like that was completely different to what we've been doing and
it showed out in the field it just but it wasn't you did a different preparation it's just that
they were ready yeah we know it wasn't it wasn't
really different but they just went up a notch and just in terms of intensity it was different
yeah and that's where that's where it all comes from the the intensity of which you train i think
is probably the biggest indicator of how you're going to play especially like grand final that
that grand final build and getting the intensity for the grand final because they've had experience
at it so much experience at it now how much of a factor do you think that plays because it looks
like you guys got so much patience like like you got you're not panicking at any stage yeah you're
going to do crazy like oh shit we better start throwing the ball you know like you know i mean
like it looks like you've got patience yeah well i think that that's sort of what you touched on like
it's knowing that sort of our best is going to beat anyone else and having that little bit of
confidence in that and i think um we actually had a discussion earlier in the week we were training
and um went up to that after and we sort of spoke and just felt like we'll maybe focus in a bit too
much on on melbourne rather than just focusing on ourselves and getting our game a hundred percent
right and um for the rest of the week we sort of zoned in on that and and constantly telling each
other that you know if we bring our best game it's we're definitely going to be in the fight
but i believe that that we're going to win it and um i think that helps with knowing that if we train
well again it comes back to that preparation if you train well that's what gives you confidence
for the game and that feeling was definitely there with just the intensity and taking it to
another level um yeah particularly grand final week i'm sitting here i'm thinking to myself
they're both good looking dudes they've won four grand finals they're like the father's got the
perfect uh son and and brother and your other children too as well and a perfect wife because
he's got a great relationship with his wife um the son's singing i got the perfect dad um
like what the hell like what's going on here hey there must be is there a chink anyway oh there's
plenty plenty you live at home you live no you don't live at home
but everything's like uh do you ever think to yourself i don't know this is like you know i
don't want anything to change yeah well it was funny um last time we spoke i was in here that
was after we'd won our first final in 2021 yeah and i remember thinking on that night i was just
thinking um wow how can how can you be so lucky where so many things go so well for you in one
night yeah um but i was also saying uh just this morning i did an interview with someone and
with 12 years of playing nrl and then my first 14 years of coaching nrl so that's 26 years
it took me to be able to win a premiership and be involved in one so it's been a lot of it didn't
happen all but no it's certainly not all been the it's not all beer and skittles and um i had to
learn a lot along the way and i still know that you know in the future it can go the other way
quickly so just enjoying the enjoying the fruits of what we're doing at the moment that's for sure
well you're only 52 three three fifty
i was going to give you a year thanks man but like you know you've got a long way to go like
bennett's late 70s or something i'm not gonna be coaching i'm not gonna be coaching
i'll be lucky i'm alive at that point i heard bellamy say the other day that day he probably
retired before he's 70 and and and uh he's 67 i think at the moment so he said i'm not i won't
be there at 70 that's they were his words yeah do you see yourself coaching these these blokes
for a long time though i don't know i honestly i'm contracted for another three years and at
the moment that's that's good enough for me it's unlikely
not going to renew the contract can i tell you yeah i know but i i've i just don't know if i can
you know like i just can't see myself being one of those guys it's i'm in my you know 60s or late
you know 70s still still going through this roller coaster you know i want to roller coaster i want
to sit back having a beer in the stand mate but it is a roller coaster is it like it is i mean
i often say i recommend the hardest jobs is coaching like well it's a lifestyle you know
heavy like i mean this mate this can be dramatic and terrible
it's a lifestyle it's more than a job it's you you live it you know and and from week to week
depending on how the game goes you know it can dictate how your life's going it's not just you
it's your family it's your wife your kids so it's um but that's where you put your hand up for and
that's that's the addictive part of it as well um every time you have a loss or you're not going
well or you know it's i think as a coach you always feel like there's something good around
next corner you know so yeah and but does that mean it would mean that you're going to be a
definition and have a positive mindset though like generally speaking you have a good positive
outlook and stuff i think so i'm a bit of a realist but also i just feel like i guess i have
enough confidence in myself and and the team and the people you know that work for you and whatever
that that we will that we will if we're not getting it right now we will eventually get it
right you know i guess if yeah that's i suppose it's just yes there's something good around the
next corner um but there's been plenty of dark times mate that's for sure
not too long ago running a business looked a lot different a good location and a solid reputation
were enough to keep a customer base happy no websites no social media no seo just old school
networking and persistence of course but times have changed in today's digital world your business
needs more than just a great product it needs visibility that's where squarespace comes in
whether you're just getting started or expanding your brand it's the all-in-one platform that makes
building and managing your online presence
with blueprint ai creating a professional customized website takes just a few clicks
plus powerful tools like automated client invoicing online courses and memberships
help you generate revenue effortlessly so you can focus on growing your business
instead of juggling logistics head to squarespace.com forward slash mentored for a free trial
and when you're ready to launch use offer code mentored
to save 10 of your first purchase of a website or a domain you were made for going the extra mile
for your pet and farrah pets was made to do the same farrah pets supplements are vet created with
innovative ingredients that combine eastern and western therapies so your pet can thrive after
all you would do anything to help your pet feel their best and so would we visit farrahpets.com
slash pod to get 20 off today that's f-e-r-a pets.com
slash p-o-d farrah pets we were made for this can i just talk for a moment about there's not
just two people in your family there's quite a few of these four kids and and your wife as well
maybe you just introduce who maybe you could do it introduce the rest of your family to us
so what have you got and obviously not here today but like yeah who's there so and what's the order
of kids and what's everybody doing it's got mom back um she's the rock of the family she keeps
running together it keeps us saying real for sure yeah yeah um she yeah how long you been married
now um we're how long you been hanging out together like going to go the type of thing
oh it was our 29th wedding anniversary last week um so we we got engaged after one year
and then got married so it's 31 years well correct congratulations especially coming for
something like me he's had three marriages so thanks we're beating the odds yeah you definitely
are you definitely are and go on and then i'm the oldest um so i'm 26
i got my sister indiana she's 25 we're 14 months apart and what's indiana doing is she she's mad
footy fan uh she's yeah she is actually she um she's probably the i would say the least sporty
out of the kids but she loves her footy she loves telling dad who she who should be picking and
who's playing well and all that and i love um she's her and mom are very similar like they're
social types they'll go to the footy and have a drink and just love chatting and watching the
time she live at home still yeah she's at home yeah yeah and you got what after that and then
i've got a brother who's 19 has he just signed up with somebody sign with the warriors yeah yeah so
that's that'll be interesting change for him but what position is he playing he plays halfback as
well really yeah same structure as you uh bit skinnier but he's like in high yeah i'm gonna
be taller than me yeah yeah he'll be when he feels out he feels out yeah i'm gonna be bigger so um
it'd be a good opportunity for him i'm actually i've i couldn't help but feel bad for him at times
um he's been playing with parents in the juniors like everyone knew who he was it was right up to
him in the paper and he was just trying to work out his his path and journey and he's definitely
been on a different to what i was when i was younger um so i think going over to new zealand's
going to really help him just to settle down and and just yeah just work hard and if it happens it
happens if it doesn't we still love him and yeah so and then we've got a i've got a younger sister
as well malaya um she's 17. and what's her deal she's still school i guess is she no she left she
was doing her hair um she's still in school i guess is she no she left she was doing her hair
um she's still in school i guess is she no she left she was doing her hair um she's still in school i guess is she
um she's still in school i guess is she no she left she was doing her hair um she's still in school i guess is she
um she's still in school i guess is she no she left she was doing her hair um she's still in school i guess is she
um she's still in school i guess is she no she left she was doing her hair um she's still in school i guess is she
um she's still in school i guess is she no she left she was in school i guess is she um hairdresser apprenticeship
um hairdresser apprenticeship
um hairdresser apprenticeship yep um so me malaya and dad are all very
yep um so me malaya and dad are all very
yep um so me malaya and dad are all very similar quite introverted
similar quite introverted
similar quite introverted um not as outgoing and then jet indian
um not as outgoing and then jet indian
um not as outgoing and then jet indian mama are the extroverted party type the
I don't know what you're doing.
That's probably right.
There's probably something in that eye.
And I guess I had different mums, so that sort of didn't help either.
I just kept trying to have a girl, and I just never succeeded.
Now I've got three grandsons as well.
And when you were having kids, did you actually wish
that your kids played footy?
Was that a thing?
Because I remember when my kids were little, I put them down to sixes
at the wombats and all that stuff, you know, crocodiles.
Then they went to the crocodiles for a while.
And I just wanted to play footy.
And a couple of them just weren't really interested.
Like one of them particularly couldn't give a shit about it, you know.
And he's more academic sort of thing, you know.
And I must say a few times I got disappointed, like as a dad,
wanting to see my kids play footy.
Were you like that as a dad?
Or did you just say, or did Nathan just naturally sort of want
to play footy with all the kids?
Yeah, also, as Nat said, he was our firstborn.
And he was honestly, by the time he could walk, he was kicking footies
and hitting golf balls and just playing with any sort of ball he could.
So I didn't even have time to even think about whether I wanted him
I didn't really, didn't necessarily want him to play footy.
I just wanted him to follow what he liked doing.
And he just loved playing sport.
So, you know, I encouraged him to play, you know,
the more sports the better.
That was definitely something that I think is important.
And he was only too happy to do.
So, you know, he played cricket and a bit of athletics and played soccer
and all sorts of stuff.
Tried to get him in the water, surf.
Yeah, and then just as it turned out, he fell in love with footy
and he was pretty good at it.
But was he always built, he's a big kid for a halfback, like very big?
Yeah, he wasn't, no, he wasn't like that, no.
He wasn't overly big as a kid.
But even when he was started, you know,
I mean a teenager, when he first played Harold Matthews,
he was number 14 coming off the bench playing hooker.
And there wasn't much of him.
Yeah, that was tiny.
Matt's under 15, I was 16.
So he was 14 or something.
Yeah, and so by the time, you know, the other kids obviously came around,
I had the same thing.
If they wanted to play sport, awesome.
If Jetty wanted to play footy, great.
If he didn't, I wouldn't have cared.
Yeah, and he just so, I kept saying,
because he was under that much pressure and everyone was watching him
and I said, are you sure you want to do this, mate?
He's like, yeah, no, I do.
I said, okay, all right, go for it.
How much do you weigh out of interest as a halfback?
About 90 at the moment.
That's a big halfback.
Yeah, I got to 94 in the preseason
and I sort of realised I was like, oh, this is a bit too big, I think.
Yeah, like more muscle, you lost muscle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, muscle.
You were slower than me at that point.
Yeah, I was a bit slower.
He was never quick.
No, I've seen the tapes.
I've seen the tapes.
And then, yeah, I obviously had the hamstring injury as well,
so I was like, I sort of refined my diet a bit
and pretty happy at 90 at the moment.
So do you feel as though any of the injuries were as a result of having,
you know, being a bigger set?
I don't think so, but at this point when after my second hamstring injury,
I was just, I wanted to look at everything.
Like I was just putting everything on the table and, yeah,
just really took like a bird's eye view of what was happening,
what, because I just felt,
I felt confident at the time, like I felt good in my body
and then these things were happening
and it's obviously something's going wrong.
So, yeah, sort of refined a few little things.
The main thing was doing just extra hamstring and high speed work,
which was, came from the physios and high performance staff,
which is the base of where it came from.
But any little intricacies I could change to help me, I try to do that.
You're a perfectionist?
And it's very frustrating at times.
He's a perfectionist?
Is he good from you or mum?
No, neither, I think.
Mum and I are quite happy to, you know, to be not perfect.
He has to get it right though.
Yeah, but you know what, it's just, you know what,
that's something he has realised as well, that you're never perfect,
but he tries to be and he prepares like no one I've ever seen, you know.
Like he said earlier that he's learnt that he never wanted
to give himself an excuse come game day and that's actually,
there's a lot of,
there's almost human nature that you want to give yourself
that little bit of excuse, you know.
So it's quite a, I think that's one of the traits that are unusual
in him and why he's become so good.
I mean, I couldn't kick a goal ever, then or now.
And I look at guys like you when you're kicking a goal,
especially when you're under pressure,
and I watch the process you take yourself through
and you're sort of talking to yourself, you say something to yourself.
I mean, is that something?
Is that something you'd share with us?
Like is there a, it seems like there's a series of steps that you take
that sort of dull all the noise and all the people yelling at you
might be right on the sidelines, someone trying to wish you the worst.
And it seems like you go through this process
and for some reason nothing else in the whole world will exist.
Is that like close?
I've said this to a few people, but when I first get to the top
of where I'm about to kick the ball and I'm setting it up,
I can hear everything.
I can hear everything in the crowd.
I can hear people saying stuff.
But once I've set it up and I get to the top of my run up,
it's like there's no noise.
It all just becomes one and then it's just me in my own head pretty much.
And I especially feel this with the high pressure kicks
that are one to tie the game or win the game.
I'll just simplify it and I'll just say to myself,
keep your head down and don't try to kick it too hard.
And take a couple of breaths and it feels like I'm just at the park
like when I was a young kid kicking.
I know it seems weird, but yeah, in those high pressure moments,
it's probably when I feel the most relaxed, I reckon.
And is that partly because you do actually practice
at the park all the time?
I mean, you're one of those guys after training,
you're still kicking, you're still training,
you're still kicking goals and up and under, whatever.
Yeah, yeah, a lot.
And that was probably something I needed to refine as well
with the hamstring issues, which has been a difficult process,
but it's probably helped me a bit.
It's helped me a bit more to see things in my own head
rather than actually just doing physical reps
and it's more mental focus and stuff like that.
And I think that helps me in those sort of high pressure moments.
It feels like I've been there before and I've envisioned it almost.
And yeah, I think the thing about like the perfectionist thing,
outside of footy, I'm happy to not be perfect.
I know I'm not, but for some reason in the footy world,
it's like, yeah, I'm quite meticulous.
Well, that's like fighters, like boxers.
I know they can be the nicest.
They can be the nicest people outside of the ring.
They get in the ring, they just switch on and they become that person.
And everybody thinks they're like that all the time, but they're not.
And it all comes down to how they prepare, all the training,
that they get ready to do what they're going to do.
You know, like I guess I've been talking about you two.
The Penrith won, so it's a team.
So let's call out a few people on the side.
Like who surprised you, like really?
I mean, everyone aimed up, obviously, as a team result.
But who really surprised you?
Who really surprised you?
Who really surprised you in the grand final?
My God, look at that guy go.
Well, there's a few.
I reckon just we were talking about in the car on the way here,
Paul Alamotti and Isaac Tunger, just what they were able to do.
They're probably unsung heroes in some regard of, you know,
they don't get all the reps and they're not sort of the big name player.
But what they were able to do on the night of the game was quite incredible.
Not only with the ball in defence, like I think Isaac Tunger made 37,
even tackles at the centre.
Like it was just unbelievable and he was protecting me.
So I have extra, extra love for him.
I think the obvious ones, Liam Martin, Isaiah Yeo was unbelievable.
Like I watched the game back and I was like some of the things he came up with
in the last 20 minutes, some of his carries were, you know,
we know he's great but he just went to another level.
What would you say is, what's his skill?
Like he seems to be able to, he's very light on his feet for a big, tall, big guy.
And he just keeps, he keeps, I remember once he was driving his legs,
there was people on him and his legs were just going, going, going.
And he would have gone, he'd probably got an extra post, 10 post metres.
And that would, that would stuff me up if I was the opposition, you know,
I'm thinking because I'm trying to chase a lead, not protect a lead.
I'm trying to chase it.
So that would get into my head, I reckon.
Well, it gives the rest of us energy as well when you see that happen.
He just takes a carry and he's just carrying three guys for another 20 metres.
I think we sort of spoke about he's got great balance.
He's got a great understanding of the game.
It's almost like having another halfback out there.
He just understands the game so well.
And that comes back to your fitness as well.
You have to be fit to keep your head on and know what's happening.
And yeah, he's just an unbelievable leader.
He always says the right thing at the right time.
And yeah, he's an absolute pleasure to play with.
He's a big box ticker.
Like real process.
Like he's in his whole life, everything he does, he's just so organised.
And he's got this, he's got a memory like an elephant too, mate.
He remembers everything.
So he remembers like as the game's going on, he knows exactly what we need,
he needs, what the opposition's doing, what we're doing, what we – it's phenomenal.
And he's in the middle of the field playing 80 minutes every week.
He's an on-field coach.
And on-field coaches are pretty important, like if you can get that sort of individual.
Yeah, we've got a couple actually.
It's pretty handy.
Liam Martin like –
No, he's not one.
He's definitely not one.
He's not on a field goal.
Yeah, unbelievable.
And he's just a big game player in every sense of the word.
Like sometimes I watch him or like because I play right next to him,
sometimes in club games during the season, it's like where's this guy that's this nutcase
that's playing origin in the finals?
Like he's just a bit, you know, not there.
But as soon as he's needed, he always turns up.
And the bigger the game, the better he goes.
And he showed that in the club too.
So it was – yeah, I was pumped for him.
It's funny you should say because you mentioned some – let's call it unsung heroes.
Earlier on, you did, Nathan.
And I'm – you're a hooker whose name just avoids me for some reason.
I wanted to give him a shout out too.
That guy's like concrete.
He's a weapon, man.
He's unbelievable, yeah.
Yeah, he's a – he leads the parties afterwards as well.
Yeah, he's just –
He's amazing, yeah.
Yeah, he's just that tough and that much of a team man, you know.
He will do – yeah, he'd fight his grandmother for a scrap on the ground, you know.
He'll take it up no matter what.
He's awesome, man.
You wouldn't need me to do it.
Yeah, like – and do you, Nathan, do you draw on any sporting heroes for inspiration
apart from Ivan Kluge?
Who have you got?
I love sort of the American sports.
So Tom Brady's always one that I've sort of looked up to and just listening to him.
And the way he went about his work was saying that I was really drawn towards –
Like a surgeon he is.
He just dissects everything and just –
He just brings it all back together.
Just, yeah, unbelievable.
So he's probably at the top of the list for me.
Michael Jordan with The Last Dance.
After watching that, I was – that really inspired me.
And then people like LeBron James and all that as well.
They're guys that I look towards and admire.
LeBron James – actually, what's interesting about LeBron James and his son, they play
I mean, look, mate, it wasn't much, you know.
I did a couple of years.
Could you imagine?
Yeah, but you could do it.
Like, I'll back you up.
Come on, come on.
So the celebrations that you guys have been going through, they're pretty much over,
You're going to have your awards now.
It must be coming up soon.
We've already had that.
You've had your awards now, haven't you?
And who won – and what's your top award at the Penrith?
Murph Cartwright.
And what's the Murph Cartwright – who won – who took the Murph Cartwright award?
It's two years in a row.
I think that's his third.
And what do you say to someone like him when you see that he's now the captain of the
Australian side, isn't he?
I mean, what do you say to him?
What do you say to Mike?
What do you reach out to him and say?
Well, I could say – I said this to him.
Like, he broke the all-time games record for Panthers this year.
Took Steve Carter's record, 244 games, which has stood for 23 years.
So, I mean, I said on that occasion that I feel like I don't talk enough about Yowie,
like, what he does for us.
He's – the best way I could probably sum it up is, like, I'm always looking to give
But I'll just never take him off because I just can't – I can't face us playing
He plays – he's so durable.
He's just so consistent.
It makes me feel safe when he's on the field.
He mentions that I gave him his debut in 2014 when he didn't think he was ready, but
I had faith in him before he had faith in himself.
So, and all he's done since then is – he's helped me.
So, that's how I look at it.
Can I just go to, like, a little – I don't know.
Topic on the side.
I saw a post from her with a Penrith jersey on.
And then I saw one from you with her.
It might have been in your stories, but I can't remember, but it was her.
Like, you know, like, anything?
I'm looking forward to seeing her.
I'll get to see her soon.
Where is she now?
She's in England.
She's in England, right.
Their season had just started, so she couldn't come back for the game, but she wore the
Penrith jersey to her game, actually, and was watching it in the shed, so.
How did you meet her?
I met her, and I'd known of her for a little bit, and then I sort of knew that she was
going to be there that night, and I was a bit like, oh, I hope that our paths cross,
Were you stalking her?
No, I was not stalking her.
We were both pretty shy, though, so.
Yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah, so it was nothing crazy.
She was a star, and then we just – she was here for the World Cup, so we got to know
each other a little bit, and yeah.
She's an Adidas ambassador as well.
So, like, if the two of you, like, you know, get together and, I don't know, do something,
get married or whatever, and you move in a house together, you're going to have to get
a big house, because the number of boxes of Adidas –
You're going to have to have three rooms for it, because I saw a post – it was on
your page, Adidas being one of your sponsors.
And you brought a lady in to help redesign your bedroom or something.
And she didn't know how to deal with it.
They showed a picture of all the – like, there was a wall full of Adidas shoes.
That's just the start of it.
Yeah, I'm pretty into my shoes, and lucky enough to be sponsored by Adidas, so.
Well, it's a pretty good one to be sponsored by.
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
So they definitely help that need for more shoes.
I was looking at my wheels before I came in, because I was looking at it in my office,
and I went, shit, he's probably one of those guys who knows everything about shoes, you
And he's going to say something to me, like, I have my crappy – I'm not going to even
say what I've got, but I've got my crappy shoes, and these are my trainer shoes.
I know the feeling, mate.
Every time I look at you guys, what's that, mate?
Yeah, you've got to get your shoe game right, mate.
What's that, mate?
I've been trying to help him.
I get him shoes pretty much every time for his birthday or Christmas, so he's stepping
it up a little bit.
You don't pay for them, though, do you?
Because they're a sponsor.
He's good, he's good.
He works that out pretty quick.
He used to bag me for it, but now he actually appreciates the shoes.
Well, you know how important – well, I've only more recently learned how important
having your shoe game right.
That's a really important thing, especially at where you're living now, because that's
Like, you know, you've got to have the right shoes, dude.
And you've got to listen to your son.
He knows what you should be wearing with the right colours.
I'm not sure about those ones.
I'm already married.
I don't need to impress anyone.
No, but you've got to impress the kids.
Can I ask – it's an elephant in the room question, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
Anyway, Gus Gould.
Gus is a controversial figure, especially – he has been in relation to Penrith and
in some respects yourself.
He was at the Roosters for a long time, as you know.
He's now at Canterbury.
One thing no one can deny, Gus is a smart guy and committed.
Do you attribute any of this success, not the success of you as a coach, but the success
of Penrith generally to what Gus might have done earlier on?
Absolutely, yeah.
And I would attribute a lot of the success as a coach I've had too, because I played
four years under Gus.
He also got me to come to Penrith originally.
Also sacked me, but –
A lot of how I look at the game and what I learnt about the game and how I still coach
today is from Gus.
And he would know that by the way we play.
I manage people differently.
That's the way he does.
But from Penrith itself, like he – yeah, 12 years ago when he brought me in, he completely
changed the way that our club was built in terms of pathways.
At that point, 80% of the top 25 in those days, 80% of the players had come from elsewhere.
Only 20% were locally grown.
And all the success from the past, so like the 1991 team, the 2003.
Were always – there was a big chunk of players, either locals or kids that had come from
the bush or somewhere where they'd grown up in Penrith.
So we had to turn that on its head and Gus drove all that.
He created the pathway system.
He was a big part of building our academy, our actual high performance centre out there
So without a doubt, like his fingerprints are on the way the club was built.
Some of these guys, you know, Nat and Jerome, he was responsible for starting the Harves
And these boys came through and –
Like an academy for –
Halfbacks, fivebacks.
And Nat and Jerome were –
They were part of the inaugural one, so –
Like specifically for those two positions.
Yeah, Trent Barrett was running around.
Yeah, so Gus had a huge influence on it.
But I actually think that he probably had to leave in order for us to actually reach our
potential as well.
Yeah, well, he can be like that though.
I mean, he's good in the beginning and he will set up a structure.
That's undeniable, yeah.
I mean, he did at Origin too, if you remember.
Like during that puberty when he was an Origin coach, he did the Roosters, as you remember.
Yeah, that's what he's done.
And then Sticky came in.
And now he's doing a good job with the Dogs.
And he's sort of picked a few – picked the eyes out of a few of your ex-players.
He probably knew them before though, I guess.
And he knew their potential.
I mean, do you – does he text you and say, hey, mate, well done?
Are you on talking terms?
No, I haven't spoken to him for a long time, but I'm sure we'd be fine.
Yeah, it means he didn't text you.
Well, footies like that.
The great thing about footy, right, because we all accept the tribalism of it
and it still is tribal.
I mean, like it's particularly where you guys are.
Like it is very tribal.
And like if I could – so like, you know, there is – and to some extent it's even
probably – often I've talked to the coppers about this and, you know,
like guys in the administration of police and they talk about –
they get concerned sometimes about the tribalism of footy around your area,
particularly in – is it 1-4?
And on one hand that's really powerful, like powerful you as a member of the community,
powerful you as a captain and you as a coach and as a team member.
It really pushes the community together.
And you've got the FTA from the area.
That stuff is – like to me, that tribalism is what I like about footy.
That's why one of the reasons Souths have been able to hang in there for so long.
And don't worry, they'll come back.
I just know Souths will come back.
You know, like his experience, what I'm talking about, like as an East bloke,
but they always just keep coming back.
You can't kill them.
Now, I won't say it like cockroaches, but you can't kill them.
And you can't kill the tribalism in an area like yours.
How do you sort of manage to balance that though?
Like make sure it doesn't get out of hand.
It doesn't become – it doesn't cause –
It doesn't become a problem for the club.
I mean, and I don't know if it does, but how do you make sure it doesn't?
I think, yeah, well, I know there's definitely the clubs had some fears
in and around that.
It sort of spills over a little bit of local games,
particularly around spectators and supporters of games and stuff.
And the boys themselves, it's quite a big responsibility for them
because they have such a connection.
If they're, you know, from the area, the Mount Druitt boys.
And they will have incredible loyalty to where they come from,
which is really powerful.
But they've also got to be – yeah, they're in a position
where they've also got obviously the club to think about their own sort of position
as a role model in society.
And it's a pretty tricky –
Yeah, it's a tricky situation.
But our boys, they have done incredibly well and handled it with aplomb, I must say.
I like the way Bizza sort of goes about it.
He's always joking about everything.
Yeah, he manages to just – anything that's ever serious,
he'll just deflect with something funny or stupid
and he gets away with a lot of that, I think.
Maybe others see that too and maybe others can learn from that
because it could be, you know, you don't –
because the last thing you want is a split in there,
like between groups of guys and, you know,
and they've got wives and, you know, they're partners and families
and brothers and sisters and stuff like that.
It can get a bit messy.
And I guess – is that for –
for the captain or for the coach to manage?
Well, we've been really clear at Panthers that we have our own culture.
So, you know, a lot of boys do come from the area.
A lot of boys come from other places as well.
And no matter who you are, where you've come from, you know,
your cultural background, the color of your skin,
you know, what you have, where you have tattoos, no tattoos, whatever,
as long as you fit in the values of the Panthers and, you know,
if they respect our culture, then you can be –
you can be from wherever you want.
And I think the boys themselves have driven that really well.
And that's been sort of our North Star, if you like,
for all sorts of things and in particular what you're talking about.
Can we just talk about Drinkwest?
So you're in with – sorry, the two partners is Ty or Bam Bam.
And how's it going, Drinkwest?
It's a hard gig with the brewery.
Beer's hard, yeah.
But it's been enjoyable.
It's been something that I've just learned about.
It's probably my first dip into business.
So I'm just learning along the way.
And, yeah, it's been fun.
Obviously, those two boys, they're polarizing characters,
so they always keep it fun.
I particularly like Ty.
He's a great guy.
He is a great guy.
I mean, he's told his story to me in times.
Like he's – I just love his effort.
Like outside of the UFC.
As a person to try to be better.
Well, he's similar to the sort of Romeo and Gizmo of giving back to the area
and trying to build everyone up.
That comes from there and showing them that there's hope, you know,
And I think that's something that those boys in particular have done really well
and it's now become cool to be from Mount Druitt where in the past
it probably wasn't.
Well, you guys keep that coolness going though.
Like winning grand finals, like that underpins it straight up.
You know, like – and God help me.
If you lose next year, you're going to get brushed for life.
But I love the idea that they've built a beer around people who live in the West
because that's smart to me.
And you've got a brewery now.
He's got a brewery now.
We've got a brewery in Penrith.
And you've actually got a – there's a bar.
People can go and have a drink there.
I think I went out there.
I went out there.
And I thought that's pretty smart.
And, you know, like if you guys ever need any help,
and I've extended this to Ty if you want.
Like you always come and talk to me.
And, you know, I've got a mate who's – he's a mate of his too.
He's actually in Sydney at the moment who owned a brewing business
Him and Mick Fending own it and a couple of others.
And they sold it for a large amount of money.
But if you ever wanted to talk to him.
Yeah, that'd be great actually.
Because he's here.
He's in Sydney for the next couple of days.
And anyway, he comes back and forth.
But it'd be good because I'm thinking to myself,
what does Nathan think about post-footy?
Like I've been thinking about it more.
Like particularly this year with injuries,
I had a lot of time to myself to think and –
Like you just think it's going to go forever.
But then you have a few injuries, you're out of the game,
and you sort of realize like this isn't going to last forever.
So I reckon this year is probably the first year I've really thought about
post-footy and what that looks like for me.
And, yeah, it's been an interesting journey.
It's one that I am excited about.
I know it's a fair way away.
Well, I hope it's a fair way away yet.
But it's something that I am excited about.
It's a new passion, something that you can put your time and effort into.
And, yeah, we'll see when we get there.
What does a club do about that sort of thing?
Does Penrith sort of extend to their players' assistance or, you know,
like encourage them to do courses or is there something going on?
And as a coach, do you do anything in that regard for the team
and the team members?
Yeah, not so specifically.
We definitely encourage them to do.
We do stuff outside of just footy, you know,
so whether that's plenty of the players are actually doing courses
and trying to look into other things just to help them for life after.
As Nat mentioned, it can be a pretty short career
and you never quite know when it's over.
And around business stuff, there's, yeah, we have some sort of help available.
There's probably nothing so formal.
Maybe you need to come out.
I'll be happy to.
No, because we do that.
That's the sort of stuff I like to do it because I like to help young blokes.
And young women, you know, improve their lives and do better
because it's quite important.
I mean, when you say the sporting career, the footy career can be short,
well, I might be put another way.
You're going to live to, your generation is going to live to 90 to 100
and not many players go past 35 for argument's sake.
You know, Jerry Evans is probably one you might too because you're pretty robust.
But let's say you get to 36, 37, that means you've got another 50-odd years.
You've got to spend money.
You've got to make sure something's coming in to fill the gap.
And it's worth thinking about.
And it's good that you're thinking about that sort of stuff.
And I guess, you know, having a girl you're interested in too,
like you're probably starting to have thoughts, well, one day, you know,
I've got to keep the Cleary name going.
Yeah, absolutely.
Have maybe one sport, one kid who's played sport out of it all.
You know, a soccer player.
Probably, but why not?
I tell you what, if there's a girl or a boy,
they'd be a good kicker.
You'd be able to kick a ball.
You'd like to think so.
Yeah, like, but they're the things that make you start to think.
And it's funny, I guess you look like to me a much more mature player this year
than I've ever seen you before.
You know, I know you had some injuries,
but you look like you're more settled on the field.
You look like you're more in control of yourself,
therefore puts you more in control of the game.
I get those thoughts start to, that type of personality seems to emerge
once you start to have thoughts about what am I going to do in the future?
You know, like, will I have a family one day?
And I guess that's where you're at.
Yeah, I think probably more so than ever,
I'm much very settled off the field at the moment.
Just my headspace and the people in my life,
and I'm really content with that.
So that definitely helps on the field.
But yeah, it also does make you think about the future
and what's going to happen.
And yeah, put a little bit more thought into that.
Does dad become the dad and not the coach anymore at that point?
Well, you're like, my kids don't talk to me about it.
My dad is a, she's pregnant.
That's a bit extreme.
But like, my kids will kill me for saying that.
I haven't helped him in that regard.
But you know what I mean.
But like, do you have to cross that bridge?
Like, dad's gone from being a coach to being dad?
Well, I've always been lucky with that.
Dad's always still felt like dad to me.
Obviously, a trainer feels like he's the coach.
Do you call him Ivan, a coach, a trainer?
No, I call him dad.
But I've realized that I never say it like out loud that much.
Because I don't really want to be yelling across like dad.
And sometimes when I'm talking to other people,
I'll describe him as Ivan.
Because then we're on the same path.
But yeah, I have always been lucky that he's still remained dad to me.
And obviously, mum's there too.
And I've got a really close relationship with both of them.
And they've always helped me from a young age with handling money
and even property and stuff like that.
And I've had good people.
I've had good people around me to help me with that sort of stuff.
So it's probably made me think about the future more
than I actually even knew I was at the time
and put me in a good space for that.
Well, I have to tell you, Nathan,
like your currency outside of the Panthers is huge.
So when we walk outside, we can have a chat.
No, I'm only joking.
But your currency's huge.
So you've got a great future.
Like for as long as you can play footy.
But and you've got – you come from a fantastic family.
You've got pretty much everything ahead of you.
Like it's – at some stage, it sort of turns around to you.
You've got to take ownership of now I'm the dude.
And it's funny, like parents sort of go like that.
Like eventually, you stop having dad and you have sort of equal.
You become like not equal.
You know what I mean?
Equivalent is probably a better word.
And it just seems to me like that you're moving into that territory now.
And I look at Ivan and I think how content you must be having such a wonderful family.
Like, mate, like could you ever dream that like if you go back in the 90s –
You must pinch yourself.
I will – I'm super lucky.
My family's everything to me and it's – yeah, like I obviously coach for a living
but that's not who I am.
Family's first and foremost.
And interesting you say that about Nat because I was thinking about that this week where
it's like he's now a man.
And it's like, wow, you think you're first born.
And just every time you just hear him talk, he just amazes me with like where he's come
– like where he's at.
So yeah, it's pretty cool.
Well, congratulations.
Not only in winning the coaching grand final, but congratulations to you and your wife.
For, you know, raising what you've raised, all of them.
And I often say the apple doesn't drop far from the tree, mate.
It's got to be – it's got to have something – a lot to do with the way you conduct yourself.
It would be the, you know, greatest achievement of my life if my kids, you know,
continue to be upstanding citizens and, you know, add value to the community.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
And that brings me to this.
By the way, anyone think he played?
How did you let him get away with that photo?
I actually said I said it was pretty cool.
It was pretty cool because he's quite reserved.
So I'm happy he shows up.
He's got to have a moment every now and then.
But he's sitting over the top of you guys.
Like, so Ivan, you've written a book, Not Everything Counts, But Everything Matters.
And it's how connection and courage teach us to win an NRL – and this is about – this
is an NRL leadership story.
This book's going to be on the shelves soon.
If not now, but it's going to be on the shelves very soon.
What's this book about?
Tell us about it.
Yeah, so it's not – it's certainly not my life story.
It's something that's really got me out of my comfort zone.
I just couldn't even imagine ever having a book written about me.
I thought that was reserved for folks like you, so.
Mate, you're much more than me.
So I consider myself a pretty normal dude who's just persevered.
You know, used the talents that I have and learned as much as I can over the years.
And I'd like to think that I can be, obviously, you know, paralleled with, you know, coaching
and sport, but it's a bit more than that, I think.
You know, hopefully people in business can – yeah, can be helped by some of the stuff
that I've been through.
Well, you're in the business of footy.
You are a businessman.
Yeah, and I'm not telling – by the way, I'll be really clear on this.
I'm not telling people how to do anything.
I'm just sort of more like my story and some stuff that I've learned along the way and
hasn't all been easy and hasn't all been, as I said earlier, beer and skittles.
So there's some lessons in and around that.
Obviously, the father-son thing where, you know, just about every junior sports team
in Australia, you know, has a father, mother, son, daughter relationship, even in business.
There's a lot of small businesses that are family businesses.
So hopefully, you know, our story can – you know, the ups and downs of that, you know,
might be able to help too.
It still feels a bit weird and I'm a bit nervous, actually, about the whole thing.
Nah, you'll kill it, mate.
I just want to read what you wrote in the front of it.
It says – this is from you – to mum and dad, thank you for showing me the way and
to the game of rugby league, the greatest game of all.
I owe you everything.
Can you tell me about your mum and dad?
So I was – I'm the youngest of three boys, so we grew up in the northern beaches.
In an era where, yeah, we were sort of allowed to get out and about, you know, in the old
We – and I was the youngest of three brothers, so I was just dragged along to everything
I was a very sporty family.
Mum and dad split when I was pretty young, about 10.
They didn't – they were always there, but they didn't tell us everything, you know
They allowed us to become – you know, there was a pretty set way of how you should be.
We should do things and treat people.
But apart from that, they always sort of let us kind of find our own way, I thought.
So mum's still – mum's still very healthy and going well.
My dad passed away earlier this year, so.
Oh, sorry to hear that.
Yeah, no, it's – you know what?
He had a good life.
I think he helped us on the weekend too.
He would have been up there watching.
He was a huge fan.
That's actually adds a little extra to the whole thing, by the way.
Winning it for him.
But I think, yeah, you realise as you get older how much you sort of – you know, you
sort of learn from your parents, from your early years, you know, just how things should
be done or how they're done and, you know, ways of looking at things.
And as I said, they never – yeah, they weren't pushy or any stretch, but they – yeah, they
kind of taught you stuff in their own way, I reckon.
And, yeah, I think that's – you're definitely grateful for that.
Sounds like they gave you sort of a good footing but good wings at the same time.
I think so, yeah.
I think it's important that you kind of let your kids stumble and make their own mistakes.
And, yeah, and sort of then be able to pick them up, but they've got to kind of work it
I just want to just cover a couple of the chapters here or their parts.
So the first one is about culture.
The second one is about leadership, which I think is a – you know, has an application
anywhere, not just in footy.
The game itself, that's – I guess you'd be talking about strategies and tactics and
Yeah, and just some of the stories from the actual – yeah.
You've got a whole part of winning.
How important is it for your –
for your team in terms of like the last weekend, winning that grand final?
Is it for them to understand winning themselves and actually know how to win?
Yeah, there's – well, I guess that's – there's a section in the book around I probably made
a change in strategy sort of five years ago where I was always obviously interested in
winning and always was competitive and wanted to win.
But I don't think I was actually being true to it where I was completely risking all to
So it might be a bit like you prepare, you know, 95%, but you're not quite the last
five for whatever reason, just to give you that little bit of a, you know, a little bit
We've got room if you lose.
If we had have done that, we would have won or whatever.
And I just got to a point when I came back to the Panthers six years ago where if we
hadn't have succeeded in the 2020 season, I would have left the game.
I just, yeah, decided to not only say that myself, but put it out there, said that to
Our whole culture was built on winning.
We're a professional sports team.
You know, we're not a local park team.
So winning not only matters, but it's essential.
And that's the way we've, yeah, approached things and we will continue to do so.
Just so it happens to be it's worked.
The timing for the book.
But I think people would be fascinated to – it's sort of a bit of –
I guess what is – he will be fascinated to read this because I think it doesn't matter
whether you're a footy fan.
If you're a footy fan, yes.
But if you're not a footy fan, these areas about winning.
Winning is the same business.
You've got to be winning in business as well.
You need leadership in business.
You need culture in business.
And all those chapters or sections are just as valuable in every walk of life as far as
That's the idea, Mark.
I definitely would never want to have a book just where it's all about me.
I just – yeah, I'm hopeful that people in all different walks of life can get something
You know, I've got to say, it's an old photo.
It's like he's 20 there or something.
How did you get away with that?
The hair's still grey though.
No, but they're just grey hair.
But that's an old photo, man.
There was no – I'm pretty sure there's no makeup there.
We've got 4G cameras on today.
You're in trouble.
Look, I'm privileged to have you in here.
I want to thank you.
I want to congratulate you again for everything you've done for footy, everything you've
done for Penrith, everything you've done in the field, everything you've done in the
field for your team, what you've done for the area, and raising a wonderful family.
Good on you, mate.
I appreciate it, Mark.
If you've been listening along for a while, you'll know I'm all about staying sharp
physically and mentally.
As I get older, staying on top of my game means being smarter with how I support my
body and mind day in, day out.
One product I've already added to my routine from the bulk nutrients range is their NMN
It's a science-backed blend of 10 powerful ingredients, including NMN, resveratrol, and
Now, this is designed to support everything from energy and muscle recovery to skin hydration,
joint health, and even mental clarity.
By the way, I need all those.
Whether I'm powering through a busy week or just investing in my long-term health and
weight loss routine, I can't wait to see what happens next.
So, if you've been listening along for a while, I'd love to hear what you've got in
And believe me, it tastes pretty good too.
Head to bulknutrients.com.au and see why NMN Extend might be the edge you've just been
Not all that long ago, money was simple.
You earned it, saved some, spent some, and maybe invested in a house if you were lucky.
No apps, no online banking, no thinking beyond what was in your wallet.
But times have changed.
In today's money market, growth can come in many ways.
And the way we think about it is that we're not going to be able to make a profit.
We're going to be able to make a profit.
The way we think about cash is continuously evolving.
Enter Australia's highest-rated crypto exchange, SwiftX.
Whether you are just starting to explore the crypto market or are already deep in the game,
SwiftX makes it easy to acquire, sell, and trade digital assets all in one place.
So, if you're someone who's thought about dipping your toes in the crypto market but
isn't sure where to start, this might be for you.
Visit swiftx.app.
forward slash markboros to check it out.