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G'day, it's Mark Boris here, and I hope you're getting some rest
and gearing up and re-energising for the new year.
I want to highlight to you what is your favourite episode of Straight Talk for 2023,
and that is Kayla Ritzner's.
Now, this is the first time I think Kayla ever recorded a long interview.
When I chatted to Kayla, it was obvious to me why she is so successful.
What is also great is that she's maintained that Adelaide attitude.
She's down to earth, and the real deal.
I'll see you next time.
Welcome to Straight Talk.
You can PT me today.
A young woman from Adelaide, not from Sydney, two normal parents, a normal person, has done
something quite superhuman.
She is the social media fitness sensation.
Kayla, it's seen us.
Founder of the Sweat training app.
Believe they sold it for $400 million.
It was just like the other day.
I like stood back.
and I was like wow I'm actually really proud of myself like I created this community of women
someone said to me one day Kayla if you didn't have what you had what would you be I was like
oh I just thought it was the easiest question in the world it's like not personal trainer no no no
like you lost everything I'm like yeah a personal trainer I'll be honest like the last seven years
that the whole rise of Kayla was really hard not being anyone to suddenly having my face you know
in the media so if Nike does something wrong it's Nike it's not a person but when Kayla
it's Enos does something wrong it's Kayla it's Enos' fault and it's her name why do you worry
so much about it being misrepresented or not represented in the way that you have sort of
outlined I was hesitant to say anything why didn't you become the CEO I think that for a long time
it was just um how do I do this Kayla
pay attention welcome to straight talk
you can PT me today
how you going all right
so uh yeah you know like many years ago uh probably maybe how old is your daughter now
four okay I think it was like three and a half years ago I tried to get you on to the the show
um when I was in the city in the studios in the city and um you couldn't make it because you were
heavily pregnant at the time as I sit and recall um so and uh yeah actually we end up getting Toby
but lots happened since then between you and Toby but uh so but but we're here to talk to you I
always wanted to talk to you I always wanted to meet you for a whole number of reasons um
you know we all think that uh we're patriotic we're all you know somehow related to each other
we just talked about it earlier Greeks to Greeks you know like uh I always get intrigued especially
a young girl from Adelaide who's done so well for herself you killed it like seriously killed it
and um and it's not just the metrics and it's not just the
numbers that you know everyone keeps talking about you know it's all over wikipedia and
everywhere else when you do your research when i do my research about the numbers of people
follow you and the amount of money you sold the business for all sort of stuff not really just
about that from my point of view what it's about for me is a young woman from adelaide not from
sydney not from one of the fancy schools here in sydney but a young girl from adelaide with
two normal parents who's a normal person has done something quite superhuman for me
you cracked it so nice you killed it like it's a big deal and you've always remained
at least from what i'm seeing from where i'm looking grounded um and uh well managed and
reserved and haven't tried to make a big deal of it even though it is a massive deal from where
know women very rarely get to do what or achieve what you achieved especially from a little town
like adelaide yeah it's pretty cool thank you how do you feel about that i i think i made the
mistake early on of never ever accepting compliments like that never ever celebrating
anything like that and when people used to say you know you've done really well like how do you
feel my good good like i used to kind of brush it off but it was just like the other day i like
stood back and i was like wow i'm actually really proud of myself like i'm really proud i sent jay
message my fiance i said i'm really proud of myself weirdly it's like it's like a weird thing
to say he wrote back you should be i was like yeah it's it's sort of like a delayed response
yeah like is is that because kayla growing up was always told to know her place or is it
are your parents humble people or what where's that come from so my uh my mom i'll just talk
about the women on my side, my sister, like if you need an arm, we'll cut off an arm and give
it to you. Like that's just us. I watched my Yaya work so hard. Like she ran a household and I know
that doesn't seem like much now, but like every single meal is cooked, homegrown, like the house
is clean. So there's no cleaners, there's no dishwasher. Like she is the dishwasher. Like
that's what my grandpa says to her. You are the dishwasher. It sounds terrible, but like I just,
I'm just around hardworking women with a lot of love. So when people say to me like, oh, you know,
they talk about money or you've made so much money. How do you feel? I'm like, not really like
a question that I, or something that I really like to talk about. I talk about my family or the love
that we have. That's just what I've grown up with. I just don't really know that, that business talk.
Yeah. Well, it's, it's, do you, I remember the day that I did my deal and many years ago in 2004,
and I was sitting in New York when I did it. And I was just there by myself and the
way I was doing it. And I was like, oh, I'm going to do this. And I was like, oh, I'm going to do this.
I just went and bought myself a pizza. I got the concierge in the hotel and I stayed at a really
fancy hotel. I'd never stayed in anything like that before in my life. And I got the concierge
in the hotel at 11 o'clock at night to get me a pizza because I was in New York. So I thought,
I'm going to celebrate with a pizza and a beer. And people sort of think, I'm sure they think,
oh, yeah, well, a lot of bullshit, but I wasn't overwhelmed on that day. I was, in fact,
when I think back at it, I was a little bit underwhelmed. It took me a long time to sort of
grow into it. Is that sort of what's happened to you?
Have you taken a long time to grow into it, like to get that sense, well, I did something pretty
good, you know, pretty big deal? A hundred percent. I had no idea how
to celebrate that. Like, I just, I remember sitting down at the table when the deal was done
and I just didn't know how to tell my family. We're all sitting around the dinner table. We
were all having a dinner. Everyone was laughing. Everyone was doing normal. And I was sitting there
thinking, when do I tell them? Like, so then I went, so I went out that day and I bought my
family gifts, like just like really small things, things that
they wanted. And I gave it to them at the dinner table. Everyone's like, why are we opening these
presents? Like, why are you doing this? And I was like, I thought, man, this is so lame. Like,
I just, just say it. And mom's like, did the deal go through? And I was like, yeah. She's like,
oh my God, like, congratulations. I was like, this is, this is so weird. Like, that was it.
And it was done. Like, I just didn't know. I'm just not that person that would like
scream about it and like cheer and throw a big party. It wasn't me. It's just like,
that I was happy. I was at the dinner table with my family and that was it.
At what point in time do you say, okay, I'm going to go spend some of the money. I'm going to go buy
something I've always wanted to buy that I could never afford before. I couldn't justify buying.
At what point did you do, did, did you do it at all? And if, if so, at what point?
So the first, this was actually prior to, we're talking about the salesware. This is prior to
this. This is the first money that ever came in through the PDFs. I was like, so excited. I used
to dream about this. So my brain goes really fast. I'm a backtracker. My brain goes really fast. Ever
since I was a kid, the only way I can put myself to sleep is to
think about what I'm going to do next. And I'm like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this.
Like imaginary situations where something really good would happen. And I'll just keep thinking
about it, keep thinking about it. I always think I want to buy my uncle a car and a shed for him
to fix up his car. This was me. I grew up with no money. So this is just me. I want to, I want to
pay off my parents' house. I want to buy my dad a car and buy my mom a car. Cause my mom drove
around in this, this just mom, I won't embarrass you if you're listening to this, but it was not
the greatest car. Like it would break down. It was horrible anyway. And so the day that we made
money from the PDFs, I paid off my parents' house. It was like,
my dream came true. And my parents didn't know how to act. I wrote it in a Christmas card to them.
They like, I was like, read it out loud. And they're like, they read it out. And my dad's
face was just like, like, I could see he's never cries. I could see this tiny tear wiped away this
tear. And it was just like, thank you. Like, I don't know what to say. Like I'm meant to help
you. Like I'm your parent. Like I'm meant to help you and you're helping us. Like,
thank you so much. I was like, day made. That was it. That was my, that was my
splurge of money. That was it. And it's funny that you should say that because
sometimes the biggest deal is not that you've all of a sudden got money you got access to,
but the biggest deal is what you can do for other people. And that's, that is the biggest deal.
A hundred percent. Just seeing my gran, even my young people, like they never bought anything for
themselves. And I went to Spotlight of all places. It's like, I bought them a tablecloth that they
can wipe down. Cause I used to have to change a tablecloth. I have so many people over for coffees
and stuff. So I bought this tablecloth and I bought this tablecloth and I bought this tablecloth.
It kind of looks like concrete. They could wipe down. It was like $70 a square meter. They would
never pay this money for this tablecloth. They've still got it to this day, 10 years later on the
table. They love it. Like those little things, it's like money gives you freedom and happiness.
If you've got the right people around you to do things for them, to make them smile. Like I love
that. Like I said, I'll cut off my arm and give it to you if you need it. Yeah. That's it. That's
If you could give me an age, the time when you first thought about establishing an app
called Sweat, can you take your mind back to that date? That period?
All I remember is being young, releasing the PDFs. And the only reason that the app was
even considered was because other community, our community members were saying we want,
cause we used to say we're like a personal trainer in your pocket. They're like literally,
literally do it, like do an app, do an app, do an app, do an app. But no one in the fitness
industry, especially in the women's space had done an app. So when we transitioned to an app,
we were like, yay, this is what you wanted. And they're like, no effing way. Are we paying $3 a
week, $3.99 a week for an app? That's so expensive. That's too much. Like imagine, imagine that we all,
we have subscriptions now for everything, but at the time it was way too much. So there was
thousands and thousands of complaints. The app wasn't ready to be held by thousands,
thousands of people. So it crashed, like everything went wrong. So in that time,
I can't, like, it's almost like I've erased it from my brain because it was so scary at the
time. I was like, I'm giving you what you want. And then bang, complaints, like, or bang, like
not ready enough. And I was like, I just want this to work. I just want everyone to be happy.
Such a people pleaser. This is my problem. So I just remember being young and trying to service
an audience. But did that dent your enthusiasm? Like how do you respond? How do you react when
it comes to that? Yes.
How do you recover from that? Yes. Because it's different when, if you have a brand,
if you have a brand, let's, let's say Nike, who owns Nike? 99.9% of people will have absolutely
no idea. So if Nike does something wrong, it's Nike. It's not a person. But when Kayla
does something wrong, it's Kayla's fault. And it's her name and it's her face that gets
plastered everywhere. And it's her that people are angry at. It's not, it wasn't sweat. It was
sweat with Kayla. That's what the brand was first. And it was me. So all I saw,
it was my face in the news. My name. Was it in the news?
Oh, of course it was. Compliant. Because you're charging $3.99.
No, no. It was, it was the fact that the app crashed and so many people wanted to get on it
and we couldn't service those people. So it almost felt like at that moment, you're like,
did we just fail? Like, is this all over? Is it game over? And it was my face. And it's still
to this day, no matter what, it's always me. Even if it's not me, it's always my face. So
it's really hard having that brand. So what did you do though? Like, so when you...
Yeah. No, but, but...
But how did you go about fixing it? So like, what was the process? Did you have to call in a whole
lot of tech heads to come in and sort this shit out? You didn't have to allocate dough to it?
And my, probably my biggest question is, how did you fund that?
At the time, actually, I have absolutely no idea. No, no, I do have an idea. It's that we've kind
of erased it from our brain. So it was launch, press launch, and just being not ready. We had
a dev team, which was building the app. And we had a dev team, which was building the app.
And it was like, we were on the other side of the world. And it was like, trying to wake everyone
up, trying to get everyone up. Like, guys, like, this is crashed. It's like, don't worry, it's
under control. Within 24 hours, and with the help of Toby, and he's just waking everyone up,
we got it fixed. But in that 24 hour period, it was like, if it was a ding noise, it would have
just gone ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And it was all just, my app has crashed. I can't
get on. I can't log in. Like, I can't log in. I can't log in. I can't log in. I can't log in. I can't
log in. Like, I did that. Why is it $3.99 per week? Like, I don't want to pay for this. I pay
too much. It was so much just as a kid. But we got it fixed. It sounds hectic. But yeah, it was.
How important is it, do you think? For me, it's really important. But how important is it for you
in your case that you have a partner in those situations, a business partner? I mean, he was
your partner, partner. But just put that aside. How important is it when you, something goes
wrong, that you can sort of lean on your partner and say, oh my God, what have you done here? And
how are we going to fix it? I mean, is that something you would recommend having a partner
going into these environments? Yeah. And do you know what? It's really great. And it's great when
you're actually with that person. It's terrible if it's terrible and it's great if it's great.
Right? So like, you're with this person and they're your partner, like in life. And they
have your best interests. So you know that that person has your best interests. When you have a
partner who's like a buddy.
Or you don't really know them. You can't trust a hundred percent that that person has your best
interests. So yes, it's good if it's good, but if it's bad, it can go terribly wrong. I think if
you have the right partner, it's great. You mean business partner?
But what would you say are the, because I've just been talking to a couple of guys who
are in business together and they're good mates, always work together and they trust each other.
Is the reason why having a good partner or a partner,
is because you know how someone is likely to react because you've known them for some time.
That's what it's about. Like knowing their character.
Yeah. And knowing and having that partner there. And this is a credit to Toby. Very cool,
calm and collected at the time. Very, let's fix this. Very, let's do this. Like,
and there's obviously me who's there and I'm emotional because what's happening is my face
is getting run through the media. This looks like a failure on my behalf. And then you have this
person who's there who has your best interest.
Who is your partner? Who is there to, and it's very cool, calm and collected and say,
let's fix this, which is what you want at the time. People say, don't work with your family
because emotions can fly and you guys can like be driven apart. But it's really good when you
have someone who is so level-headed to say, let's fix this. Once I got my head around after the
first hour or two of things breaking, I got my head back around and I was like, okay,
cool, calm and collected. Like ignore the media. Let's just get this fixed.
Having those two people there as the rocks for this company, which was quite small,
but having the rock, these two, I guess, owners of the company be like, it's all right guys,
we're going to get this fixed. That was a really good feeling for our, for our staff, for our team.
You know, the staff's an important one. But if I could just go back like one step
in terms of having someone cool, calm and collected like Toby was at the time,
on the flip side of it, his face not getting plastered all over the joint.
What is the downside of being,
the face of a brand? Because like to build a brand, it's much easier or
maybe quicker if you let the brand borrow your face and borrow who you are. Because brands need
personalities or the personality makes it grow quicker if they, if people like the personality,
but there's a risk associated with it. Did you ever understand the risk associated with being
in the front of the sweat with Kayla? Did you understand the downside of it or you just thought,
oh, sweet, I'll just go along with it? Listen, so this is what I recommend and
this is what I say to people. I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing.
If you're going to build a brand and it's on you, set specific goals, morals, standards,
almost like a brand identity. Have that prior to going into your business. And when you go
into your business, whatever it is that you do, make sure you stick to those things. So for
example, like this is going to sound like a bunch of mush until I actually explain it. So I said,
I will never sexualize myself to sell a product. Never.
Before you put your name out there.
This was just me and how I grew up. I will never embarrass my grandparents.
I will never, probably never train men. I just want to focus on women. And at the time it was
actually because of religious reasons that I had a lot of female clients and I didn't want to,
I love my, those clients and I respected them. And I was like, you know what guys,
I don't actually need to train men. Like, I love you guys. We'll just, let's just have women in
here. And that's how it started. So there was just like these things, these boundaries that I set for
myself. So I went in there with a bunch of boundaries and I never broke them. And the
fact that I never broke them, I never broke them. I never broke them. I never broke them.
I didn't have to worry about the brand getting ruled. Now here's where it gets harder. You start
introducing staff, social media teams, marketing teams, brand teams who try to be you. And if you
step too far away, then you're actually giving yourself to them and putting your brand, your
voice, your face in their hands. And by doing that, that's where the risk comes in. Because
if they go and say something, they go and do something, they go and write something that's
not you, all the risk falls back on you. So you have to be in control.
If you're going to put your face that big on your brand, you've got to be a bit of a control freak,
which is what I was. I wanted everything done a certain way, which made me quite robotic
for a long time because it was to the point where I was like scared that my shoelace would fly off
because it would deflect their eye from looking at what I was actually doing. Like everything had
to be perfect. No flyaways. No, like, I know it sounds silly, but it's like that helped grow the
brand and it kept it clean, kept it pristine. Um, until I was like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm
I guess it was sold. And then you have to step back and accept that.
Would you, would you say you had to become a little bit obsessive about the brand values?
And I want to ask you as well, on top of that, did you write the brand values down? Like this
business about not sexualizing myself, blah, blah, blah. I had to. Was it written down? Yes.
And then when you talk to your marketing team or whoever the people were, they had to understand
that. So you inducted them into this process. Correct. And then do you become upset? Do you
have to become obsessive? No, it doesn't mean I'm not.
Suggesting you have to become OCD, but do you become obsessed with getting things correct all
the time? Yes. You become a control freak. Yeah. That's what you mean by control freak.
Absolutely. Yes. You become a control freak. You want to be able to control every single situation
because it is you. It is you. And so when things go on the media and everyone's like, don't worry
about it. Just ignore it. I'm like, it's not your face. That's me. So if you write one wrong thing,
like, you know, you step back for two days and you say, look guys, I trust you. Like,
you've got the brand guidelines. You know me, you've been working with me for years.
And they go and write one word, just one word. That's me. It's on me. So I'm like,
this is why I can never leave. This is why I can never, this is why I'm still here to today. Like
you still have the business, but you're still in it because you want to be able to control
that narrative. Why do you, why do you worry so much about, is it a commercial concern so much
about, why do you worry so much about it being misrepresented or not represented in the way
that you have sort of outlined? Is that, is that for commercial reasons or is that more personal
It's because, and it sort of sounds a bit backwards, but all I care about is changing
your day, making your day better, making you the best version of yourself, making you happy,
make sure like other people, please. I just want you to have the best day. So I need to
have control of that. So for someone to try and be me and try and make your day better
via pretending to be me, I don't like that. I don't know what it is about that, but I,
I always want to be there. Like I want to be the one to help you.
And it was really hard for me. And this is going back, back. It's re it was really hard for me
mentally to move away from one-on-one clients. Cause the narrative is Kayla always said, you know,
why would anyone want to train or do, um, BBG the program? Because no one will buy it. It's not that
it's not that I said that it was more the fact that I was like, why would someone want to train
without me? I want to physically be there. I want to be able to say, well done. I want to be able
to tap them on the back. I want to be able to give them a high five and smile at them and say, see,
look, you did it. Why?
Like, how could you do that off a piece of paper without me there? But they did, they did it. It
was called BBG and it went viral and they absolutely loved it. And I, and I got to stand
back and be wrong. Cause I love being wrong. I love when it says someone says you're wrong to
me. I'm like, am I like, I love that. I love that women did this program. They stood up and they
like, didn't need me. They did it by themselves. So that's when I became more control of, of what
I was online. Cause I wanted to definitely be always there. Always me, always showing up.
So someone met me in person. They're like, you're exactly the same. Like that wasn't a compliment to
me. So it wasn't, wasn't created. It was you. It's always been me. Like, I hope that you,
what you see on Instagram, my videos where I'm demonstrating an exercise, you now talking to
me now, you're like, you're kind of the same. Like that, that is you. Yes. Okay. Maybe I sound
a little bit more like I keep saying the word control freak. Um, but I think you would be too
when it's your brand. Imagine if an AI model was suddenly just you, just not you, it's your voice
and I'm just talking and this AI robots just pretending to be pretty cool. It'd be sick. You'd
love it. But you'd also be like, hold on and wait, I didn't really talk like that. Or do I really
sound like that? Or did I really want to say that? Like it's almost like someone else controlling,
you don't like that. In terms of, um, how deep you go into that, in terms of your thinking,
your process about how is Kyla represented and the rules, it's sort of like a rule book.
Won't do this. We'll do that. Won't do this. Do you get right down to the very detail? Like
Donald Trump used to do, um, that he never smiles. If you notice, he never smiles. He always
wears the same uniform. Um, he carries his hands in the same places. Um, I remember when he came
out to Australia once and we were doing the show and, um, he said to me, look, I'll, I'll allow you
to do an interview with me. And at the end of the interview, um, he presented himself and we were
asked to, you know, the media wanted to do some photographs saying you were fired. And, uh, every
photo, we took about 30, 40 photographs and we had to approve them before they went out to the
media outlets. And, uh, in every photograph, my hand was a different spot. In every photograph
he took, his hand was in exactly the same spot. And some, some of those photographs, I smiled,
some of those photographs, I was just like, whatever, you know, just mucking around.
His mouth was exactly the same on every one. His hair looked exactly the same. It's just like,
it was like, there was just one, one pose he took 50 times with me. It was like,
they took 50, I did 50 different poses on 50 different occasions.
So, but, so, but he was very, very particular in relation to how his brand
was relative to himself, the media, um, and anyone around him. And I, I took that as a lesson. I try
to learn from that. Did you go into that level of detail? Like Kayla doesn't smile or Kayla does
smile or Kayla doesn't use certain words. She doesn't swear. She, did you go into that program?
I mean, yeah, there was, I mean, okay. So no, not that level of detail. Um, but you know,
like there was other things. So,
there's my guidelines. So I'll call them my guidelines, which I will not sexualize myself
to sell a product. I don't want to embarrass my grandparents. Like, um, I said it before,
like I probably, I will never train men. Like, um, there was heaps more. I've written them all
down. Um, and, oh, and I will never promote something that I don't believe in. That was
like another huge one. And that's why we said no to so many deals. Like everyone's like, oh,
we'd love you to, we'll pay you a million dollars. Say you drink this alcohol brand. I'm like, no,
I don't even drink alcohol. Like I don't care for a million dollars. Like that will ruin me.
And just for what? A million dollars. Like I don't care about that. Um, and that's sort of
set me apart from a lot of the rest. And then there's a brand team that comes in and said,
also like at one point it got crazy. Like someone came in and said like, we never wanted to see you
in a matching set because that's too influencer, a matching set. So like if I was to wear red,
a red sports bra, I can't wear red shorts because that's too influencer and not personal trainer,
not, um, friendly and not, and they got very much in detail. I was like, oh, okay,
this is getting a bit hectic. I just wanted to stick to my guy.
Guidelines. Yes. I was always warm and friendly. Um, but that's just me as a person. Like nothing
about this was robotic or fake. It was just what I wanted. And if you are a person who
sticks to those guidelines, even in your business, not your business, but anyone listening to this,
you feel like you, you feel safe. Do you know what I mean? Like you feel safe within that.
Yeah. Well, we, we, we've had, we have brand Bibles in previous businesses and, um, and I
try to stick by them.
But I always needed someone to say, Mark, stick to the guidelines. I'm a bit opposite to you. Like
I would tend to be a bit undisciplined and, uh, tend to go outside the guidelines. Sounds like
you were more like saying to them, I'm not going outside the guidelines and don't tell me to do
that because that's outside my guidelines, your guidelines. Yeah. Um, where the hell does that
come from? Like, is that your mom, your dad, your grandparents? Like where's that level of
awareness and discipline come from? Um, I don't, I have absolutely no idea. I guess it was how I was
raised. I've, my mom isn't like, Oh, it sounds so weird. Oh my God. My mom listening to this, but
like, Hi mom. What's your mom's name? What's your mom's name? Anna. Hi Anna. Um, she's just not,
she's just not like that. She's just like so humble. She is, um, she's not loud. She's not
an attention seeker. She's not anything. She's very, just like a little Greek mom. And then my
dad is like, the thing I always say about my dad is like, he's never raised his voice. My dad is
the most cool, calm and collected person ever. Like,
anything goes wrong. I'm like screaming at my sister. She's screaming at me. She stole my toy.
She did. My dad would always be like, just be cool, man. Like everyone just calm down, man.
Like that's my dad. So like, I grew up with that. And then I grew up with my grandparents who
like, they grow their own vegetables. Like I said, like they cook their own meals. Like they don't
go anywhere. They don't party. They don't do anything. Like, so I grew up just very, just like
wanting to, I don't know. I don't know how I was raised. It's like, you always want to please them.
I don't know why you never want to disappoint them. And I remember when I was like really,
the first time, like you're able to go out to a club and you're able to drink.
And like, I do not drink alcohol now. I haven't drunk since I was 19, but I did one time.
And I remember I drank and I must've got home really late. And I got up in the morning and I
went to go talk to my dad and just the look on his face. I was like, I've disappointed my dad
somehow. Like somehow I just, I never, and it's traumatized me. Like I never want him to look at
me like so disappointed like that ever again. And I would hate to think if I wasn't who I was today
and I, and I did something else that I didn't believe in.
Um, that was against my morals, what my family would think of me. And I care so much about what
they think of me, but then don't care so much about now that I'm saying this, Mike, do I care
what other things think of me? Like, have I lived my life a certain way that I do care? And maybe
yes, but that's who I am. Does that make sense? Like, I don't feel like I've missed out on anything
because I've lived my life a certain way.
Dude, is it important to worry about what people, other people think that apart from your family?
I think when you run a business, you have a responsibility to, to people to act,
say, and do certain things and act, say, not do certain things. Um, for example,
like it would be irresponsible of me to do the opposite of what a personal trainer should be
and smoke, drink, take drugs, party. When you're trying to be a role model for others,
I think you should live that lifestyle.
Naturally or, or, or as in a performance?
No, I think it's,
I think the reason that I am where I will do whatever you want, but the, the reason I think
I am where I am, um, and currently sitting at what 15.9, say Instagram, let's use Instagram for
followers is because I haven't changed because I naturally live my life in a healthy, my way
balance as well. Like I'm not one of those people that are going to eat a cow salad. Give me a cow
salad. I'm going to throw it in the bin. Like I'm going to eat like a big Greek meal. Like I'm going
to have like cake. I'm going to have coffees. I'm going to have, but I'm not going to go drink,
smoke, party, take drugs.
I naturally live a healthy lifestyle. That's why people follow me because they trust me
and I practice what I preach.
I'd like to know what you think is the reason why people follow you. So
my brand guidelines, that's why Kayla, because they know me. So Kayla is, she's family orientated.
Um, this is not an act by the way. Like I don't want anyone listening to this being like,
she's just made this whole life up for herself. This is how I live my life. So I love my family.
I will, I love them more than anything.
How does that come out though? And in your,
socials, for example.
Community. Like I created this community of women because I was so sad. I grew up in this,
this bubble and it's stupid of me because I thought every family was like my family.
Like my mom, like if people come over, my mom cooks, like my mom's hospitable. And remember,
I, if anyone listened to this, I never traveled until the program was released. So I didn't know
anything other than the bubble that I grew up in. So my family is full of love, full of kindness.
And I thought that everyone's family was like that. And it wasn't until I traveled that people
would come up to me crying, being like, I've got no one. Like I'm so depressed. And it's the
only thing that's helped me. I'm like, oh, okay. Like, what do you mean you've got no one? Like,
where's your parents? Like, oh, they don't live in this country. Like they live in another country
and I don't really speak to them. I'm like, oh. And then the next person would come on my, like,
I'm, the lady came up to me, the saddest story ever. And it still haunts me to this day. She
had terminally ill, four kids. She was dying. She was like, I've got cancer. This is the only
thing that's getting me through. I was like, oh my God. Like story after story after story.
These are bootcamp meetups. This is the end of the bootcamp.
You're supposed to be on a high getting story after story after story after story. And I was
like, oh my God, not every family is like my family. Stupid to say now, but like that was
my realization. I just wanted to create this community. I wanted everyone to feel like the
family. So that's number one. That's why people follow me because I create sense of family for
them, a place where they feel safe. Number two is women only. So again, not only do they have
a community of family, but a place that they feel safe. No offense, but some women feel not safe.
It was the fact that I didn't sexualize myself. So they felt that it was safe for their kids to
follow me. There are a lot of moms that follow me. Their kids follow me. I don't drink alcohol,
which that's by choice. I just don't like it. It doesn't like the taste. I'm like, how it makes me
feel. Mothers, again, parents, trust me. Do you let that be known though?
Absolutely. Yep. So people know that. And I don't have a reason. Like I wasn't an alcoholic. I just
don't like the taste. It doesn't fit my lifestyle. So I don't drink it. So then again, mothers with
their kids feel safe. Follow Kayla. Follow what she says.
I've never been on a diet. I refuse to diet. I just eat a healthy, balanced diet, Mediterranean
food, whatever it is, our Greek food. Again, so there's that trust there again.
And I maintain a healthy relationship with everyone that I'm around.
Trust. Again, I think people follow me because they just trust that I'm not going to randomly
go off and, I don't know, do something out of the line that I stick to.
When you say sexualized, do you mean you're not trying to be
some fancy model up there with a tight clothes on or something? What does that mean,
sexualize yourself? You won't sexualize yourself. What does that mean?
There is literally a trend currently right now that trainers are speaking with their back to
the camera. So you're staring at the back of them, their booty, and they're leading their chats with
the back of themselves. Okay.
Like, I think that that, you know,
real life situation would be very weird if I was to approach you in tiny shorts and walk in
backwards and say, hi, Mike, I'm here for you. You would probably be like, what is going on? Like,
this is, this is so awkward for me. Like, so this is how people are leading their stories, their,
their talks to their audiences. Like there's little things that I just couldn't do it. Like
I, and I, I mean, I'm not gonna put myself down, but I'm not exactly the curviest person in the
world. So like, I don't.
I don't want to attract a male gaze in that way. I don't know if that, I feel like I'm
going off topic here, but like.
No, no, no. Actually you're on topic.
Yeah. I just feel, I don't know how to say that without putting women down. I don't want to put
women down like at all. I'm here for women. I support women, but I think there is certain very
obvious images and ways to stand and be and talk that are sexual and I don't support it. Like it's
not for me, but if someone else wants to support me, I'm here for them. I'm here for them. I'm here
to do it. That's fine.
But you, but you think your audience likes it though? Because I was going to ask you,
is there any, is there any sense, especially for when you were younger, when you're building your
audience, is there a sense of naivety about Kayla that made it more interesting for me to follow?
Because she wasn't somebody who knew what the hell's going on and was actually managing the
whole process, either sexualizing yourself or not sexualizing yourself in your case,
more of a performance.
Whereas you were just being yourself.
Yeah. Do you think that naivety thing was attractive to a lot of other women who,
who follow you and, and they like naivety, not naivety, but just normal girl.
Like the, the girl next door sort of vibe. Yeah. They did like that. They, they, and everyone used
to say to me, you're from Adelaide. Like, yeah. How come you didn't move? Move where? Like away
from my family. If you, if you're in, I believe if you are in, you live in a certain lifestyle
for a certain amount of time, you adapt to that lifestyle.
So if you have millions and millions of followers and you live in Hollywood and you have millions
and millions of dollars and everyone treats you like you're the queen, then you will think that
you're the queen. That's great. But then you get used to this lifestyle when it's not there anymore.
Who do you have? So I used to say to people, if you lost everything that you had, what would you
be? They're like, Oh my God, I would die. Like, I would hate that. That's what I do with my life.
Someone said to me one day, and it's on, it's been recorded multiple times. Kayla,
if you didn't have what you have, what would you be? I was like, Oh, this was the easiest
question in the world. I was like, Oh, personal trainer.
They're like, no, no, no. Like you lost everything. I'm like, yeah. What would you be?
I was like a personal trainer. Like I, I genuinely like that. Like I got to wake up every day,
be in my pajamas, which no one actually knew, then put sports clothes over the top. Cause it
was cold. Go outside, train a bunch of girls with music on loud, booming music, make them sweat,
boss them around, which is like, for me, I was like, this is so fun. Like I get to tell you what
to do. Like, this is like back in the day when I was like three years old, like I want to be the
teacher. Like that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,
but growing up, um, get them to transform their mind, transform their body, live their best
absolute life, get a hug for it. And then appreciate me telling them to do a hundred
million burpees. I was like, is this a real job? Like, this is the coolest thing in the world.
These women are like, thank you so much. I feel amazing. Of course, I'm going to be a personal
trainer. Like this, this idea of being like an influencer that makes millions of dollars by
advertising this tea and this camera and this cup, not interested. Not for me. Never been for me.
Would you have been though,
hadn't sold the business? Like just, just, just to make money.
Never, never cared. The amount of times I have been offered millions and millions and millions
of dollars to sell skinny teas, protein shakes, things that I just do not believe in diet pills,
anything you can think of. And I've just said, blanket, no, even things that I did want to
partner with. I was like, it doesn't, it only benefits me and it doesn't benefit my community.
So no, they're like Kayla, like it's a partnership with this clothing brand. Like
that's sports clothing. I'm like, but what?
What does my community get? They're like, nothing. I'm like, do they get like a, even like a discount
or like their own? They're like, no. I'm like, okay, then no. I just don't care.
So this, this, this, the sweat app now is now called Sweat, not with Kayla, but just called
Sweat. And that was acquired by a big organization. Okay. But you're still there.
Yeah. So what's your role there now?
Personal trainer.
You're still the face.
Yes, I'm still the face. Yeah. I create content. I do programming. I do stuff, obviously social
media. So people, I teach people how to do certain exercises and show them certain routines and direct
them over to Sweat. A hundred percent.
Yeah. Cause I've been following you for ages.
Yeah. Sweat is still standalone.
Still standalone. Yeah. So why didn't you become the CEO or the, whatever, like the chairperson
or the leader of the pack or whatever? Why didn't you do that?
Exactly what I said. I love, if you gave me any job role,
it would still be personal training. That is my favorite thing to do. That is not appealing to 99.9%
of the audience because you have to get up at four o'clock in the morning and you have to work.
Like you got to mop gym floors and wipe people's like sweat off the mirrors. That's why it's so
frustrating for me nowadays that everyone wants to become a personal trainer, but they only want
to do it online. Have you ever trained a client? No. Like personal training is the most fun job.
CEO to me, people coming to, CEO is a role where I watched the CEO role at Sweat and it's, it's Adam
and he's amazing, but all he does is deal with complaints, deal with putting out bushfires.
Absolutely. Putting out fires every single day at his desk. Like I don't want to do that. That's not
fun. Like to me, I always say, I always joke with Adam and say that he has the boring role. He's
like Kayla without my role. I said, I know, I know, I know. But to me, I just don't want to put
out fires all day long. And that's what I feel like the CEO does. My role is fun. It's, I get to
be around women, train women, like play loud music,
gym. It's the best job in the world. Honestly. Is it, is it just fun or is it you're getting
feedback all the time? So does Kayla needs the feedback? Does she like to feel what people are
experiencing? Absolutely. Absolutely. Every single day feedback in, we want this, we want that,
we feel this, we feel that. And it's me, I'm putting out, I guess I'm like a CEO in my own
role. Like I'm dealing with like the community. They're sort of like the team members that come
into me saying, we need this. We want that. We want that. And I go out, grab all that information.
I still have my own Instagram. I still have my own Instagram. I still have my own Instagram. I still
have my own Instagram account. The Kayla it seems one. And I give it to like a team. This is
what they want. This is what they want. This is what they're saying. This is what this person's
saying. I wish I could tell you what was coming up. Cause that'd be awesome. Actually. Can I say
what's coming up? Please do. I'd love to know. Can I say? So there was a program that was super
famous back in the day that we made called BBG. Yep. And what does it stand for? It can stand
for bikini body guy, which is what we got rid of because nowadays that just is an outdated view
of fitness and we all know it and it got changed, but originally no one ever called it bikini body
guy. And I think the news were like bikini body guy, but it was always called BBG. And we got
rid of it, which is what I was really sad about. And it went back into the app, but it went into
high intensity. It was called high intensity with Kayla sort of ruins the whole small, you know,
BBG ruins the fun out of it. And then it got changed when COVID happened because there was
not a, people weren't able to use equipment. So like the whole program sort of got wiped,
got changed and just became a high intensity program.
Now from the request of the community, cause I'm still online, they're like, can you just bring
back the program? Like it was the fittest I've ever been. It was the strongest I've been mentally. I
felt amazing. Like, can you just bring it back? So we're bringing back the program, but we're
calling it something different. But can you just explain for me though, what was the program? So
what's the difference between that program and what the people have been using? So what are the
differentials? So high intensity in the app is like a high intensity program. It is what it is,
just high intensity. Whereas the,
EDFs, BBG were 28 minute workouts. So seven minute circuits, you do them four times. So seven
times four is 28. And they were for women, written by a woman and it went viral all over
the world. Just 28 minute workouts, three to four times a week, giving people the most incredible
transformations inside and out. It was just amazing. And it brought just a community of
women together through bootcamps, through meetups, through social media. It was incredible.
So you got seven exercises, perhaps?
So eight exercises broken up into like circuits like this. So four exercises on this side,
if you're watching. Four exercises on one side, four exercises on the other. You do this for seven
minutes till the timer stops. So keep doing those exercises, this side, this side, this side. So
two circuits, just repeat twice. And that's always as simple as that. And I used to say to people,
but it's only eight exercises. I was like, yes. But at the end, if you add that up,
50 burpees, you've done 70 lunges, you've done 10 chin-ups, but also 100, whatever it is, skips.
If you go to a gym now and do that, you stuff around. You go to a gym, you lift weights,
10 reps. You might go have a drink, talk to your friend. You go back, you add up your session,
you might've done 40 squats. Well done. But with BBG, which is like the OG Kayla program,
you'd have done 400. And you wouldn't even know because it's 28 minutes and you just don't stop.
This is such an incredible program.
So, so, but, and the,
the objective was like, you do the program, you do the 28 minutes, you're, you're completely
stuffed. Yeah. The objective though, is to, to get you that body back or is to lose calories or
It was honestly a program that it just makes you feel incredible. It's like, it, it empowers you,
you're doing it by yourself. It's the, probably one of the hardest programs you'll ever do that
you don't think it's going to be hard. Cause you look at it, you're like, it's pink. It's got like
a girl cartoon character on the front. Like what the, like, this is going to be,
it's going to be easy. Like so many husbands of the, of the women did the program that couldn't
get through it. Like, this is impossible. This is so hard. So it was this program that you,
you finish and you're so proud to share. And it was this sort of viral, you finish, you're like,
almost died, but like I did it. And then you're, you're more inclined to share it. So it gave women
a challenge, something that they said, I can't do it turned into, I can do it. And that's what I
loved. So empowering, empowering women to do something like that. Yeah. It was never, yeah.
And it was never about calories. It was never about any of that stuff.
It was nothing. And that's why people loved it. Cause it wasn't that fad. And that was another
one of my guidelines. It was never going to be a fad. Nothing I ever did was a fad, like a diet
pill, nothing. I was sick of that stuff. I was so sick of seeing it. I was so sick of people
comparing themselves to, okay. So right. Rewind 10 years ago. So sick of people comparing themselves
to celebrities. It was always the celebrity diet. Those celebrities has trainers. Those
trainers were athletes, but no one looked at the trainers, the athletes, they looked at the
celebrity and what they were doing, which was a lie. Anyway, we all know that a PR team writes
some celebrity diet. The celebrity doesn't sit there and go, this is exactly what I eat in a day.
And it was, it was false. People used to follow it like a Bible, hated it. I was like, liar.
Then I hated the lose 10 kilos in 10. What? Stop. Like, that's not real either. Like why doesn't,
and that's when I looked at my family, I'm like, why doesn't everyone just eat, like use food as
a celebration? And that was another thing I worked out, which is I'm going back and forth,
back and forth. When I traveled, people use food as like a punishment. I was like, what is going
on? They, they would diet, they would cut out, they would restrict food.
They would be scared of food. I was like, no, in Greek culture, we use food as celebration.
We use food to bring people together. This was like such a weird foreign thing to me. So
BBG was this program that said, don't really worry about that. Just train really hard.
And women loved it. They're like, great. They're like, can I eat this? I'm like, yes.
Yeah. How important simplicity, because like 28 minutes, that's not a long time.
So like most people think, oh, you've got to train for an hour. I've got to train for 45
minutes or whatever the case may be, or even longer. Or I've got to run for an hour.
That sounds brilliant.
Pretty cool. Just 28 minutes and gets me to where I want to get to.
That was, that was the line. That was the one, that was the hook. That was the one that,
that they loved. I'm sorry, but like, if you're not a person who understands the fact that like,
it takes 20 minutes at least to get your kids into a car, to get them then to drive 20 minutes
to the gym, to then put them into a crèche, make them stay there, stay there, stay in the gym,
stay in the state, stay, just stay there, just stay there. Mommy's going to go work out,
go and work out. Say you do a 28 minute workout, get your kids, get out of the crèche,
come on, we're going to leave, we're going to leave, we're going to leave. That's another 10
minutes. And then you're back home 20 minutes. That's an hour and a bit more to try and get
to the fricking gym. Imagine in the comfort of your home, you do the workout for 28 minutes
and hearing it's just 28 minutes was so satisfying. If you want to run for an hour, run. You want to
do a 45 minute workout, do that. If you're an athlete, you're obviously going to train more,
but these people weren't athletes. These were just women that wanted to do a damn workout in
their own home. That's what they did. It's funny, Jeff Fenwick once told me, the Australian boxer,
he's a Sydney guy, maybe you don't know him, but he told me once when you're training to prepare
for a fight, he said to me that a lot of the guys and girls used to think they have to train for an
hour and a half, two hours a day. He said, if you train with me, him for 35 minutes, he said,
you'll get everything you need to be able to jump in the ring and fight a fight for around 30
minutes. He said, you don't need to do those long two or three sessions a day and all that other
stuff. And he said, you don't need to do those long two or three sessions a day and all that other
stuff. And he said, you don't need to do those long two or three sessions a day and all that other
but it's about intensity in that 35 minutes.
And I did it with him.
Like, in fact, after 35 minutes, I couldn't, I could hardly move.
You know, I was just begging for the 35 minutes to finish.
I want to go home.
And I think that's a good point because for me, it's about efficiency.
I don't want to have to do all those things.
I mean, I didn't have little kids or anything like that,
but just traveling to a gym, hanging out in the gym, you know,
doing your stuff and then you had to wait for people,
things to become available because someone's using that over there
or someone's using that over there.
Like, there's a lot of convenience associated with this.
Is that geared towards busy people, either mothers or just busy people generally?
Are you trying to send this message to busy people?
My 28 minutes is better, more efficient.
Everyone's busy though.
It's not just busy people.
Like, an hour for a workout in a day is a long time.
An hour and a half is even a longer time, obviously.
28 minutes was just so appealing to everyone.
I wasn't like, only busy people.
Only people with a job.
There was this huge, I think we had to, I think at the time it was like,
we had to legally put an age bracket.
So we're just like 18 to 50.
I can't even remember what we were.
But that just opened up this like audience and it was just, who is this for?
People used to say to me in interviews back in the day,
who is this program for?
And I would say anyone, any woman, anyone that wants to work out fast,
get it done, feel empowered, feel inspired.
In the comfort of their own home, in the gym, in the park,
wherever they want it, it is literally for everyone.
Now, did I say that?
Take a step back.
It's not for everyone.
It's a hard advanced program.
If you are willing to get out of your comfort zone,
it will get you out of your comfort zone.
But is it for someone with an injury?
But what about if I can only do 24 minutes?
What about if I actually climb?
So in other words, don't count myself out.
Don't go, oh shit, I can't do 28 minutes.
But if I can do 24 minutes, it's good.
The thing is like, and you'll never do the 24 minutes.
You'll do the 28.
You know what I used to say to people?
I used to say to my clients, I used to train out of my parents' backyard
and they used to say to me, I'm not coming to training today.
They say, I can't do all that.
I said, okay, cool.
I know you can't.
What I want you to do is you don't have to train.
You have to come.
You have to touch the door.
Show me your face.
Just touch the door.
So you just have to come every single time, 99.9% of the time.
Just touch the door.
I used to look at them and they're like, all right, I'll train.
So the hardest part is actually getting there.
Once you're there, you'll get it done.
You'll never do 24 minutes of a 28-minute program.
You'll do the 28, 100%, unless you need to go off and like, I don't know,
vomit or something, like throw up outside.
Like anything stops you.
Like other than that, you're not going to go, I've got four minutes to go.
You're going to do it.
So Kayla, you've had some great successes, as I said earlier on,
and you're still working on Sweat.
You're still the face of Sweat.
And you're running your own personal social programs as well.
Where's Kayla now in her personal life?
So your young bubba's still alive?
Yeah, my bubba's still alive.
Mum and dad are good?
You've got two children?
You've got your four – how old's your daughter, your first child?
Four, she's four.
How old's your next child?
He's five months old.
You've only just had him?
I don't know how you're supposed to say that.
But anyway, you've just had Jax a little while ago, a new partner.
You've got a new partner.
And I read somewhere that a whole lot of your family live in the same sort
of vicinity or the same street or –
I'm not even kidding.
Within three streets is every single person in my family.
Yeah, so you're all sort of – you own the neighbourhood.
I'm going to make him really sad because I'm thinking of moving for a little bit,
moving states for a little bit.
Moving in a state?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just to check some stuff out.
So how's your life now?
Like we just – I mean, to me it looks like it's perfect.
How are you feeling?
I feel incredible.
I'm so truly happy in everything.
It's – and I'm very lucky and I appreciate every second that I have
with my yabapu, my parents.
Like the other day I walked into – I have a room in my house called the playroom.
Most parents have a playroom.
It's just a messy room with toys.
And I was watching all the kids play and I was like, I'm so lucky.
I went to my grandparents' house.
I bought them a new table and chairs.
The table and chairs were zip-tied together.
I was like, come on, guys.
So I bought them a new table and chairs.
The new tables and chairs, they ordered more chairs for it
because I got so excited.
But I was like, I'm so lucky.
Like just I have everything and I'm truly happy.
And it's really bad because when people get to this point in their life,
they wait for something to go like catastrophically wrong
because they're like this can't be what it is.
But I'm just learning to just enjoy the moment, be present with my happiness
because right now everything's all good.
One time I remember I was playing golf with Jerry Harvey and his son, John,
and John was probably about 13 at the time.
And I was playing with my son.
He was the same age as John at the time.
We were playing golf and I'm not a golfer.
I had dinner with Jerry the night before and I paid for dinner for him and Katie
and he said, look, I want to return the blah, blah, blah
and I'll pay for you to play golf tomorrow.
And I just did it out of, I don't know, courtesy and all that sort of stuff anyway.
But I remember walking down from one of the tee-off areas,
walking down the hill and Jerry said to me, I said, mate,
how do you feel like, you know, blah, blah.
You're a billionaire, you come from nothing, you've done so well, blah, blah.
He said, Mark, to be honest with you, I never feel like I'm going to keep it.
I always worry that someone's going to take it away from me,
that I don't really deserve it and I don't know what exactly,
I have the same feeling.
Do you ever get those feelings that you don't deserve all these things
that you have now and somehow it's going to turn around and bite you on the butt
and something's going to go wrong?
Because it is perfect.
It sounds like it's perfect.
You look really happy and relaxed, okay.
Do you ever get worried that something's going to turn around and not go so well?
Like I had a beautiful upbringing.
I cannot even remember a day in my upbringing.
One time, one memory in my whole upbringing that I remember
and I'll just tell you really quickly so my mum will listen.
I was walking to school and my mum kept trying to say to me,
you need to clean your room and it was my birthday.
And I said to my mum, I don't want to clean my room.
Stop making me clean.
I want to go to school.
She was like, clean your room.
I was like, stop it.
Why are you doing this on my birthday?
Anyway, I was walking to school and she's pulled up beside me
because I was like, I'm walking to school.
She's like, get in the car.
I was like, no, mum, you're ruining my birthday.
She's like, well, you're ruining my whole life.
It just came out of her mouth and I was like.
Anyway, turns out she was trying to stop me from going to school
because it was a surprise, like surprise, like at school walking in.
And that was the one, one time and one time only that I remember
a bad memory from my childhood.
And my mum immediately, after they said surprise,
my mum ran to the school and hugged me.
She's like, I'm so sorry.
So like I had a great childhood.
And then I'll be honest, like the last seven years,
the whole rise of Kayla was really hard.
Like I was battling with, you know, having this amazing upbringing,
not being anyone, to suddenly having my face, you know, in the media,
having friends who I thought were my friends, you know,
say things like, you know, you could just pay off our whole house now.
I was like, what?
Or like, you should buy us all cars.
Like, I'm thinking like these people aren't my friends or like you should stop now
or like watching them, you know, make a comment on a Facebook group
that someone would say something negative about me and then them commenting.
I'm like, oh my God, this is like really hard.
And then I felt like, you know, honestly, and I've said this honestly,
that although Toby is fantastic, you know, at what he does,
like I said, cool, calm and collected,
perhaps we weren't as suited to each other as we should be.
So that was really hard.
I battled with that.
And it wasn't till just recently now from, you know,
I feel like it's been seven or eight years that I felt truly happy where I am.
Like I look at Jay and I like, I smile, my heart warms.
And that wasn't what happened like, you know, the last however many years.
And I feel that, I feel that, and this is no dig at Toby,
I feel like he would have felt very much the same.
You were both very young anyway.
And you've interviewed Toby before.
And he is very, you know, he knows exactly what he wants.
He has this plan for his life and he's very structured, very, and I,
and I, you know, I go, I do that, you know,
I would have done that as well to explain that, like the level of talking.
But I live a life where like Jay is very carefree.
Like he'll do something hilarious, like funny.
It's amazing with Anna.
It's not scared to like break the rules a little bit and like do,
silly things, which I love.
Like I love so much about him.
So I feel truly right now, truly happy.
And I feel that I deserve it.
Like I look at my family, I look at how they all live in the same neighborhood.
I look at our family dinners and it feels right.
It feels like everyone's connected and I smile and I sit there.
There's a sense of warm that comes over me,
which I haven't felt since I was a kid.
And it was that sense of family, that sense of connection,
that thing that I was missing.
And you try and fill these voids with like dogs.
Like, you know what I mean?
You try and fill this love with like dogs.
And yeah, it's not until now that I really felt that warmth,
that I felt, yeah, that I deserve.
I don't feel like it's going anywhere.
And is there a reason why?
Because I very rarely ever saw an interview with you in the past five
or six years, very rarely.
But I have seen a little bit more recently.
And in fact, here you are on this podcast.
And I saw an article in the AFR more recently.
And is it all of a sudden Kayla now prepared to do interviews?
Whereas before she was a little bit reticent to do that.
Is it now because prepared to present herself outside of that controlled regime?
What is that about?
That I find it really hard answering this.
I think that for a long time it was just, how do I do this?
Every time I do, every time I say something,
that little portion of what I say gets taken and blown out of context.
So if I say, Toby and I don't really align.
That becomes me bitter.
That's just facts.
Now, if I had said that and we were in a relationship.
So if I'm in a relationship with you and I say, we're kind of the opposite.
That's a love story.
Opposites attract.
But when we're apart, that's me bitter because I'm a female and I'm emotional
Like it's just facts, like logical facts.
So I was hesitant to say anything.
The second I did, look what happened.
They wrote a small article about that little portion,
which was nothing to do with business, with nothing to do with me being empowered,
with nothing to do with how good is, you know, what Kayla's done.
It had to be that.
So I'm reluctant to and reserved when it comes to those types of conversations.
And that's why I'm still not.
I'm going around.
As you can see, I'm going around and around.
I'm not answering your question.
And I've always felt like I work with a team and I feel like,
if I go and stand up and say, oh, I did this and I do that.
I hate when people do that because I'm like, there was a whole team that helped.
And I don't want my team watching my interviews being like, hey, like we did that.
We filmed that, like together.
So that's why I don't go and say I did this and I did that.
But you're feeling more empowered.
I still don't do it.
You still don't do it.
It was my one, like it's my one thing.
I'm still telling you now, like there's a team there.
There's help there.
And you know what?
It's really hard because you're a female and female, there's this big, like, you know, push.
For females to stand up and say, I'm the boss.
Like I run a company.
And you all go, wow, amazing.
She's a, she's a boss.
She's the, but like, I'm not like that.
And it puts me in a position of weakness in other people's eyes.
Cause they're like, oh, you had help with my, yeah, that dude over there that runs that
He also has help, but it's just how you say it.
Like, I'm happy to say I have help.
I'm happy to say I work with the team.
I'm happy to say that I should probably be reporting to D at sweat than her reporting
I'm happy to say that.
I don't know why there's this big thing about being this boss woman.
Like I just work well with the team.
So you, and I think what you're saying to me, and I often think about this myself, I
mean, success is always built upon the broad shoulders of others.
I didn't give a damn who you are, Donald Trump or whoever.
I mean, I didn't give a damn who you are.
Success is always built upon the broad shoulders of others.
But what you're also saying is that it's important to understand your own vulnerabilities or
your weaknesses and that others will fill that, fill that void.
So, um, I think what you just said about Toby, like you said that he filled a void
when things went, things went a little bit, a little bit south when the app first went
And, uh, here's calm, cool, collected sort of personality allowed sort of to, you know,
filter back down to your staff and everybody else have the confidence that everything's
going to be okay.
And it got fixed.
Logical, non-emotional.
And that, and that, and that's great.
And that works in that role.
Hence why you're the CEO.
You're going to put Toby.
toby no offense toby so you're not going to put him on a stage filled with emotions doing training
a bootcamp with women screaming and loving and hugging that's just not him that was me
like that's right and i'm like not sure he looked that good in a crop top and little shorts but like
that was where i sat and it's not it doesn't sit like that it sits like that and it sat like that
and it did so well and it went like that and that's what makes a successful business you're
two ceos or the two people not two ceos but the two mates that run the company together
like it's got to sit like that one has got to be good in one area one's going to go the best
thing about us was that we didn't step on each other's toes i'm not trying to be you're not
trying to be me up up up up up still up up up up you know what i mean if you try and step on that
person's toes you're going that way and that and that's what we didn't do um and that's why the
business was so successful but
people view it like that oh you're creative oh you ran boot camps only oh you're a personal
trainer oh you're the ceo the only reason i would take the ceo position to say i'm the ceo that's
the only reason that's the only thing it would do to me in my head and maybe to a few suits
but otherwise i'm fine you know i mean i just think the whole ceo thing is a bit of nonsense
to be honest with you like it doesn't make much sense to me chief executive officer i don't know
why he or she's the chief in charge of an executive officer it just sounds like um
head administrator to me to some extent like that's how it seems like and because
you've got to have someone who's um plugging the gaps that's important um but that's more
an administrative role yeah um and then there's expertise roles within the business so i mean i
agree with you in terms of the ceo's sort of nomenclature i mean it's a bit of a thing we
we're we're stuck with because that's how we're educated that's how we've been
been taught to look at how companies are run it might be different to bhp or um you know
the bank westpac or something like that but i think in businesses like what we have what you
had is it's a different sort of environment and and in your case now the ceo probably more likely
a better representative of the new shareholder if the new shareholder can talk to the new ceo
and uh tell the new ceo what they want to see when it turns returns and all that sort of stuff
and that's a really interesting um like analysis that you just provided particularly and i think
you and toby i mean knowing him as i do not perfectly well but i just know him i have
interviewed him a few times
um that he's a very structured thinker and and uh very good at that but i also think my gut feeling
is he accepts what he's strong at and what he's not strong at too that's what i think from i've
never asked him that's what i think and now speaking to you i can sort of see why it did
go so well because to some extent you're nearly opposites in some regards um and but that's what
the business needed that's what your business needed that's what your audience wanted to see
and he sat behind the scenes and he said i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that i'm not
it wasn't uh you know sweat with toby or sweat with keller and toby wasn't that
and you need that preparedness yeah you need someone who's prepared to accept that yeah and
i think there was a big reason and a big level of respect there that i think this was a big
pain point for and i'll speak you know on behalf of toby um that growing up together through this
business it was particularly hard for him to be behind the scenes and see something that he had
built grow that it didn't happen in a very strong way and i think that's what it's hard for him to
do it's hard for him to be behind the scenes and see something that he had built grow and see this
and it was Kayla, it's in us.
And again, there's where it comes to the opposite,
where it's Kayla, it's in us, doing so well.
Kayla, it's in us, Kayla, it's in us, Kayla, da-da-da-da-da-da.
And he's just sitting there going, I have absolutely no recognition.
So when it came to podcasts, when it came to interviews,
when it came to business, I always put Toby forward.
It doesn't need to be me.
Let you have your voice because this is your strong suit.
This is what you're good at.
This is what you've built.
This is what you should be recognized for.
And that was a level of respect there.
So that's why I never got interviewed about it.
I would never sit with you, no offense, back in the day
because there was this level of like I would put Toby forward.
You speak to Toby.
Oh, no, no, no, but back in the day.
I don't want to speak to Toby.
I want to speak to you.
You're the one that's going to get us the clicks, mate.
No, but this is his strong suit.
You want a boot camp?
You want creative?
Like it's not, again, puts me there as I say it, but you want that?
Let me be that for you.
Let me give you an interview about personal training.
Let me train you.
But you want business, analytics.
You want numbers.
That's how it works.
That's very clever.
It's nearly like you step back from the business.
It's nearly like you can set yourself back and step outside of everything
and actually have a look at it, like look at it objectively,
look at everything that's going on in the business objectively.
It looks like you're able to remove yourself from the business.
Kayla can remove herself from the business and just have a look at everything,
the whole everyone wrestling in the mud and all the sort of stuff that's going on
And take the view where she fits in.
That's a pretty mature thing for at the time when you were much younger,
you were in your 20s, you were doing it.
Did you know if you're doing that consciously or was that just your instinct?
I guess it must have been just instinct.
And I think some very honest and real conversations with Toby saying, hey.
And let me tell you.
Again, I'll speak for Toby.
He's grown up a lot.
So his conversations back then would have been like, I'm not coming to the interview.
I don't feel respected.
Whereas now would be, I'll speak to the interview because that is what,
like the way you would have watched him grow over many years
and the way that he speaks and presents.
So I think it was a little bit like, again, I think this will be taken out of context,
but I was a bit scared to upset my partner out of respect.
So I would always do that, like people pleasing.
And then as I grew up and he grew up, we both realized where we were meant to be.
I think it's very mature.
And where my final question to you is, what's the go forward for Kaila Lucidness?
Like what happens from here?
Apart from relaunching, you know, your 28 minutes, but where to from there?
Or do you just live the day by day and just live your life?
Or do you actually set up a plan next five years?
Well, I'm still at sweat for probably the next five years.
And I want to concentrate.
I think that my biggest mistake through this whole thing has not celebrating where I am
never always looking forward.
And I guess that's great.
And that's what makes you successful because you always have a plan.
You always have a goal.
You have something to reach.
But if you never celebrate where you are, you will never be happy.
And so the fact that now that I am now present, I'm now celebrating where I am.
I'm now appreciating my family, where I live, what I have has made me so happy.
So when people ask me questions like, where will you be in 10 years?
I get instantly nervous.
I get instant anxiety because I'm like, I don't really want to think about that.
But like right now, let me just enjoy the present moment because I will never celebrate
And that's what I never did through my whole career.
That's a ripping answer.
And thanks for taking the time to see me.
Thank you for listening to another episode of Straight Talk with Mark Boris.
Audio production by Jessica Smalley.
Production assistants, Jonathan Leondis and Simon McDermott.
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