Hi, I'm Gus Walland and this is not an overnight success brought to you by sure and partners financial services
This is a podcast where we sit down with some very successful people from the world of business
Entertainment and sport and chat about their life's journey and what got them to the position that they're in today in today's episode
We are chatting with Tim Costello
We've already heard from Tim's brother Peter Costello on the podcast and they're a family
We wouldn't mind having a cup of tea with and watching the footy with
Tim Costello is one of Australia's leading voices on social justice and global poverty and has been
Instrumental in ensuring these issues are placed on the national and international agenda
He grew up in Melbourne and practiced criminal and family law where he saw some of the darker sides of the justice system
He traveled the world for work in poverty alleviation and emergency relief as he led World Vision in Australia for 13 years
Tim was the chief executive officer and chief advocate of World Vision, Australia
Tim worked as a lawyer and served as mayor of st. Kilda
He was named in the Australian of the Year Awards in 2006 and was made an officer of the Order of Australia in 2005
Being a leader didn't necessarily come naturally to Tim
But his take on what it is to be a leader is refreshing as for all these podcasts sure and partners have generously donated
$10,000 to the charity of the choice of our guest
We discuss who gets that money in this chat the executive producer of this podcast is Keisha Pettit
With production assistance from Kelly Stubbs and Brittany Hughes. Let's get into our chat with Tim Costello
Tim Costello, welcome to the podcast. How are you feeling this morning today? I'm feeling good Gus. Thank you for asking
Let's start the ball rolling with me asking you. What were you like as a kid?
I was a dreamer a terrible daydreamer. I
Was dreaming of being an Essendon footballer and I never made it
It was dreaming of getting the best football swap cards and everyone seemed to
Be more cunning than me, particularly my brother and scoring them
In fact, I think while I was daydreaming he was saving his money and organizing and I was sort of had my head in the clouds
That sounds like you had a good old time
I was gonna ask you who your favorite football team is but I can say that was the Bombers
It was the Bombers every one of the Costello's barrack for the Bombers all our children
Children barrack for the Bombers
Heresy has no rights. If you don't barrack for the Bombers, you're not in this family
What did your family look like? Can you give us the rundown of who was who? Sure
So mom and dad were both teachers
Dad was 11 years older than mama her return soldier fought up in Papua, New Guinea in the Second World War mum
Nearly died in when she was 19. She was in hospital for two years
They said you may not make it and she did my dad was dating her at that time
They said well, you mustn't get married. She did
They said you mustn't have children and when I was conceived they advised her to abort and she said what would the doctors know?
Mom's still alive at 92 dad died a few years ago. So I'm middle class both teachers
Grew up in Main Street Blackburn. Your mom sounds like she's an absolute trooper
The type of person you'd sit down have a cup of tea and learn a whole lot from
the words describing my mom which just about everyone uses is she is a formidable woman and
She always would start with I wonder who's the cleverest. I wonder who knows the answer to this question
I would start to feel this
Anxiety that I was stupid and often I was my brother when they handed out the brains cleaned up most of the family brains
But my mom always pushed us always ask questions. You get a picture of my mom
I do she sounds like my great-grandmother who was from Sheffield in England and she was very formidable and she had 12 children
And she ruled the roost so she sounds a bit like like her her name was grandma Nutter
And she just was formidable, but I loved her. I absolutely loved her now totally
I wouldn't be who I am. None of us would be without my mom. Dad was a great balance
Dad was totally non-ambitious
He taught all his life, but turned down promotions. He just wanted to be in the classroom
So I think we had the best of both worlds in our parents
yeah, sounds like you were very very lucky and that's beautiful story and I can just imagine a
Sunday roast around your place would have been really good fun
You love the Bombers and you had to be a bomber to be in the family
But did you love other sports as well? Did you go to the MCG was sport a big part of your growing up?
Yeah, huge part and we love cricket. We love tennis
I still love sport. I played AFL footy until I was 57 in the veterans competition
Full-forward I never got out of the 10-yard square, but I could take a mark and kick a goal
So yes sport was very important to me Gus
Where did you start sort of working out where you wanted to go?
was it something you worked out straight away or did you sort of have a few false starts and and then finally found it look being
The dreamer I was my parents said to me now in year 12. We really want you to go to university
you're going to have to work hard and my mum that gave me that little lecture and
Sort of snapped a bit out of daydreaming and did well in year 12 did well enough to get into law
I didn't really want to be a lawyer
Given law was a five-year degree and I didn't want to work. I chose the longest course and went off to university
And had a wonderful time and I think I think the moment that snapped me out interestingly
It was the 1970s South African student Steve Biko black student was killed in a police station in
Suddenly I thought well
Someone my age judged just because he's black without the rights that I haven't take for granted lost his life
Wow, this is serious that it happened at the same time a South African evangelist a white evangelist actually came to a university
and he said, you know the people who
Created apartheid and
Bible reading prayerful
Christians in power and it snapped me out of my sort of daydream
I just thought well if you had enough Christians in the world justice would be solved and I realized actually
Christians this can be unjust and I started to think deeply about both my faith about justice
That I think was where I really started to wake up Gus
So from that moment on you went well
I want to do something about it because a lot of people in this world sort of find this stuff out and end up
Going, you know what?
I'm gonna keep to my path and I'll let someone else deal with it
Was there always a sense within yourself or within your family that you did have to step up and be the leaders?
There certainly was I
Reflect that my mother it was sort of I guess you'd say middle class dad working class
Ambitions onto her sons. My sister would say not so much her but onto her sons and
That mantra was you have to be the best of what you do
You have to serve you have to give back you if you've got leadership
You have to exercise it and I'm very grateful for that. So I had this sense
Ah, I can't just be about me making a success of my life. I
Serve others to do better
I might say Gus I'm still sort of torn when I wake up in the morning
between their twin desires to change the world or just to enjoy the world and
That makes it very hard to plan the day when you're torn by those desires
Absolutely and leadership is a lonely place as well
You know, there's a lot of thinking in your own mind and trying to work things out and taking
Educated guesses and so forth
did it come naturally to you to to play that role that obviously you wanted to play because you loved your mom and
And you trusted her thoughts on you, but it's not easy sometimes
No, and it was a a slow journey for me
I I practice as a lawyer for a couple of years doing criminal law and family law and every
Creme I represented had repented on the steps of the law court and I'd keep them out of jail and then they would go back
Family law, you know
It's very depressing people who once loved each other scratching each other's eyes out and caught me
representing one side or the other over custody over the the car or the house and
So I thought gee law isn't really delivering justice
And I took myself out and went and studied theology in Switzerland for four years really to be a better lawyer
to actually say what is justice and how do I
Really leverage change because
Law just seems at the end of the day to be making money and that's fine
But it's not fulfilling that deeper need. So it was a slow
Evolving for me Gus. So you're obviously a learner. You love the fact to learn
So when you went to Switzerland you did that were you a better student?
Being a bit more mature and a bit more knowledgeable than you were the first time around when you said yourself
It was you know, you wanted to not work. So you went for for a five-year course. Yeah, that's right
I I had actually got I'd grown up a bit the daydreaming had stopped a bit and I loved the theology
you know doing a law degree for me was just filling the
Ticking the requisites to actually have a wonderful five years at university sport and recreation and friends. It was fantastic
Theology in Zurich was tough. I had to learn German
I had to learn Hebrew
Greek and Latin I
Did four years of serious thinking about meaning why am I here?
What's it all about? What's the deeper call on my life and the purpose for the world?
Theology was taking me into those those areas, but with great academic rigor
So suddenly I was I was really working and studying hard
It was a very very different chapter from the daydreamer
I love the fact that you can sort of look back at your life and sort of see those moments and I'm saying them now
All those moments that really made you the man that you've become when you left Switzerland. What was the next step for you?
What were your thought processes to make sure that you kept moving in that positive forward direction? So I wanted to be a lawyer
Still but doing more justice oriented law and there was a little church Baptist Church in St
Kilda that had basically died it had under 10 members and I said I'll come and preach for you on Sundays if you
Let me open up a legal practice in in the church and they said yes and now St
Kilda back in 1984 was the red light area
It was the catchment area for on-the-way kids for mentally ill for drugs and crime
So I opened up a legal practice in the church preaching on Sundays
But doing justice oriented poverty law not making much money
But actually feeling very satisfied that I was integrating both my faith and my passion for justice
Through helping those who couldn't afford a lawyer
So that next 10 years as a lawyer minister were very very rich years. That's that's what I did after Switzerland
So you're really filling up the cup that spiritual cup and making yourself feel so good. That must be an amazing
Feeling to actually find something that gives you so much richness and so much happiness
Yeah, I think true happiness comes from that sense. I'm doing what I was made to do
I'm doing what I'm called to be I felt that and you know, then just let into other opportunities not planned but
You know, I was approached to stand for
Council at St. Kilda. I ended up as the mayor of St. Kilda. I like to say I was such a good mayor of St
Kilda. They abolished the whole council
Jeff Kennett was doing council amalgamations, but I stood on a platform of social housing in St
Kilda and I'm proud to say that whereas Victoria has less than 4% of all housing stock that's social St. Kilda has
15% so many of the homeless and the poor in St. Kilda have a home because we had policies the
Platform I stood on and led so my sense of justice in St. Kilda continued to to expand
Unplanned but there was this sense of my cup overflowing. I'm doing what I'm meant to do
Leadership is something that some people really look at and go, you know what? That's what I want
It sounds to me that you sort of stumbled across it and went. Okay
Well, I actually can make a difference if I do stand up here in lead
Did it come naturally to you once you got there and what about the speaking part of it?
Were you always comfortable, you know in your own skin to be able to stand up there and talk?
Yeah, the one thing that Costello's were brilliant at was speaking so family
Lunches would go particularly Sunday would go for two hours
I remember at the age of 10 one of my friends had come to Sunday lunch going your family's weird
And I said what he said we eat our roast dinner and turn on world championship wrestling
And kick the footy you debate and discuss for two hours now, I thought all families were like mine I didn't know mine was weird
So the the speaking part was very very natural both my parents were teachers
So that was never the difficulty. No, I think the leadership part is is still a mystery to me to be honest Gus
I have young people say oh, I'd love to be World Vision CEO one day
Tell me how you got there and I genuinely am puzzled. I go. Well, I was a lawyer
I went off and did some theology. I was a part-time preacher and a lawyer. I ended up a mayor
World Vision came in headhunted me. I don't know quite how you plan to get there
I never planned any of that sort of leadership style
The other side of it's interesting when young people say I want to be a leader my first response to be really honest is why?
know the cost anything I say in public I know up to
50% of people will disagree with me
some 5% will never forgive me and
Whether it's trolling or attacks or questioning. Why do you want to be a leader it?
It does take a lot of courage
No one ever said that that to me when you know, I was stumbling into being a leader
It's actually pretty costly. So that leadership thing does remain remain a bit of a puzzle as I think about it Gus
Leadership as I said a little bit earlier can be very lonely
how did you make sure that you weren't alone when you absolutely needed that support around you whether it was your own family or
A good mate or someone that you could just talk to warts and all without any fear of judgment
How important were those sort of people and who were they in your life?
You know, that was fundamentally important beginning in my years at St. Kilda and certainly when I was mayor
I had a group of three guys
We met every Friday morning for breakfast religiously these three guys
Even as my public star was ascending and I was thinking I am somebody
Ground me quicker than anybody else on the planet
They would tell me I was having a lend of myself. They would puncture the balloon and
That accountability group that continued for years and has continued in other forms all of my life was absolutely
When you think you're starting to become something
Remember it's all gift and it's not you and
There are going to be people who thankfully will tell you the raw honest truth and in relationship
That's exactly what you need and of course when they do give you a rap every now and again
You know that it's absolutely well-earned and you should take that to the bank as well
Because that's what I love about my mates is that you know
I mean, we've got a common friend in Hugh Jackman as as you know, and he of course is
Fantastic and brilliant and lovely and charming and all that
But there's nothing quite like walking out of a movie with him one of his premieres and saying oh mate
Oh, oh, not sure about that one and he just looks he goes. All right, you know
We're cuz everyone else is telling him how wonderful everything is. It's you just need that balance, don't you?
Absolutely, and I remember
Taking Hugh and Deb on the second trip first Cambodia then we're in Ethiopia in Addis Ababa
And I was waiting in the lobby of the hotel before we were going out to the field
there was a number of tourists Italian French Spanish and
I looked up momentarily gas and all these women tourists were running straight toward me and
I put my arms out and they all ran straight past me Gus
Now I've got an athlete's body you can see that
Well, you imagine what it was like when we were 15 and 16 at the blue light discos trying to get a dance
I felt the same way
I shared the pain
Let's talk about World Vision because obviously it's a huge part of your life and that's where you met Hugh
What did it mean to you when they did come a knocking and was it a tough decision to decide to do it? Yes, initially my
response was no, I'm loving what I'm doing and
Overseas poverty. I'm really concerned about I've been on an aid agency
He's bored. So it was deep in my
justice horizons, but I was
In the city of Melbourne by then I had a sort of
Pulpit for the media cameras on the steps of my church talking about
Casinos and all sorts of other issues and I said no to them. My wife was the one who said I'm getting a bit bored
With how repetitive you are you are saying the same things over and over again
You need a change take this seriously and I went off and talked seriously to World Vision and look that the next
15 years of my life were at World Vision with the best years of my life. So I'm very grateful to my wife
Just quickly interrupting the episode to say a very big
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Let's get back into the episode
Let's talk about your wife for a moment because just to pull back the curtain a little bit you and I were trying to organize this
Technology to talk and you had to ring your missus to get on and click on and get your camera to work
The thing is that you I could hear that conversation you could hear how much love there is how long you've been married your family
Situation. Yes, so my I met my wife when she was 16. I was 17. We went out for seven years
Before we married she broke it off seven times. I would get I called poisoned letters
Almost one a year saying things like, you know, I don't want to marry a man less intelligent than me
I'm worried that you're such a dreamer
My brother at my wedding is my best man pulled out one of those letters that was a bit embarrassing
But thankfully she married me and we've been married 42 years at every level
I am who I am because of her we have three
Wonderful children in the in their 30s two grandchildren now another two on the way and I
and just so blessed to have someone who's a soulmate who's a friend who is
the confidant of all of my life a marriage
I think is really a commitment but also knowing that the someone who is a witness a deep witness to the innermost things
Of your life and a confidential
Absolutely goes on believing in you when you have great doubts about yourself
And yeah, that's that's what it's it's meant for me and fixes up the the cam when you're in trouble on the computer
What do you think in the end got her over the line after seven poisonous letters eventually?
She did she just did it wear her down. Did you did you just did she just give in and go right?
I'll go for it. Look, I think I
Started to mature she had lost her mother at a young age while she was 14
Yeah, she was the only daughter five older brothers. She cared for her father. She was very practical
She had to do the cooking in the family
The other brothers had moved out by and large and I think the fact that I was still at home
Couldn't cook or clean was a daydreamer didn't seem to really be serious
I think what wore her down was she saw that I was
maturing and that
The raw material let's say might be shaped in me that I might make good eventually
Well, I'm sure that she feels that way now
She's made the right choice and your three kids obviously you're very proud of I've got three kids myself
And I just think you know, I'm in charge of little people here and then all of a sudden they're big people
They're making their own choices
University and traveling and so forth that really is the key
Have you found yourself turning into your mom and dad like like most of us do in terms of being a parent yourself
Yeah, I found myself
Saying exactly the same things to my kids that my father said to me. My mother said to me
I realized the tape was playing it was deeply wide. It was a bit of a shock to realize
My parents were wonderfully supportive grandparents, you know
The extraordinary blessing of having families like that and we know how different different it is for so many families, which is
Well, I've really tried to teach my kids except everyone never judge
You don't know what people have been through growing up in St. Kilda. You know, my kids best friends were Cambodian
Refugees whose father was killed in a car accident and I had to identify the body driving to Bendigo at the ages of
I don't know seven eight nine. My kids were at a funeral with an open
Casket of the body of Khum the Cambodian man
And I I do remember thinking well my my kids upbringing is so profoundly different to mine in safe Blackburn in Main Street Blackburn
And I'm just so thankful my kids now look back on those
St. Kilda years and say they taught us not to judge to accept to
To realize that everyone everyone's a fragile human just trying to get by hmm, I
Think we find it hard sometimes in Australia to sort of show leadership and and being powerful
But also shining light on kindness and vulnerability and leading with that as much as the other side the old-school way of looking at
It I get a glimpse from you that that balance of being powerful and strong and sticking up for what you believe in
But leading with vulnerability and with your heart has got you
Where you are and that's what you're trying to instill in in everyone that comes across you. Would that be right?
You know, I think I hope that's right. I mean I
Often try to be strong with the strong those who are powerful and run the place
Absolutely tender with those who aren't so powerful, but vulnerability I think is the key word, you know, I still find myself
unrelated to my time in World Vision and out of nowhere
I'll have a picture of a Sudanese woman in a camp who was in desperate poverty and
without warning in the middle of a speech at a happy occasion, I will be in tears and
People will go that's odd. Why is he crying and
I realized that I carry that vulnerability that you build walls around your emotions
But they're not watertight and the tears aren't something to be ashamed of and I'll explain
if it's appropriate that sorry, I'm just having a moment and
The fascinating thing is that vulnerability speaks the vulnerability
The tears often are much more powerful than the words people go. Wow, I'm struggling
He hasn't got it all together. It's okay to express that
So though it's embarrassing at times
Carrying, you know that vulnerability still I guess it's probably a form of post-traumatic stress
But I still carry from my time there, but it doesn't hurt
It doesn't hurt and in many ways it heals with the work that I've been doing with gotcha for life
I spend a lot of time with people who are in tears and emotional and the first thing they do
Tim is that they apologize to me for crying and I always say why do we do that in this country?
I found myself doing it at times too because is it do you think because we're making them uncomfortable and we're apologizing for that
Oh look, I think we've been taught that being vulnerable
Leaves you open to attack
manipulation coercion that you therefore must protect yourself and there may be
Occasions that's where that's true. There are sadly
Malevolent people who can take advantage and see weakness and exploit it sadly in our world
that is also true Gus, but I think the
Downside of that message is very costly to the sense of
Vulnerability inviting both vulnerability and therefore
expression of emotion
solidarity healing and a sense I'm not alone and
Thank you. Thank you for those tears and I'm on this journey with you
So passionate around causes that are close to you with the world vision after that
You became really focusing on the gambling side of of stuff in Australia
And that's one that's doesn't seem to be going away in a hurry
What made you feel so passionate about that was that something from your past or does something just did you see that when you're at?
St. Kilda. Yeah, my grandfather was an SP bookie
My father could always pick a horse at the races
So we came from a family that had no problem really with that
So it wasn't the family upbringing it was at St. Kilda in my legal practice represented a woman Zlata Petrovich who had
$60,000 after pokies had been introduced to
1992 she had owned a home had a great marriage. She'd been successful as a businesswoman lost that job took another job and
Pokies addiction men she'd sold in
$60,000 I represented her as the lawyer
She got four years jail and I remember visiting her in jail and say how does a woman who?
Doesn't have any other vices who has been law abiding never broken any law
To the age of 55 end up in prison for four years and I realized here was a product that was predatory
Releases the dopamine in the brain when you sit in front of the machine that hits the pleasure center of the brain with the power
People literally have become criminals
So I started researching and found out that Australia has 20% of the world's pokies
I discovered that we have 75% of the world's pokies
Outside of casinos so in pubs and clubs 75% of the world's pokies that are so accessible
That's why we have the greatest gambling losses anywhere in the world 40% higher
Than the nation that comes second
So if America's blind spot is guns ours really is gambling so I 25 years ago started raising my voice
I've never been a prohibitionist people should absolutely have the freedom to gamble but
Seeing the growth of sports betting that where every kid knows the logo the jingle the the odds and now talks of nrl or
AFL or cricket in terms of odds and sports betting logos. We have just given over to this tsunami
So that's what got me motivated not not there's a lot of petrovich in her story and representing her not anything in the family
I can see that once it becomes something that you're passionate about then nothing will stop you and I suppose that's the the great thing
About you and your leadership over your life
Is that you've always stuck to your guns and you've been doing it with a lot of passion and does that passion ever run out?
Does that passion sometimes make you a little less focus on other things?
Like how have you been able to to manage and maneuver your way through being so passionate but also being a family man and that type
I think the fact that there's still a bit of the daydreamer in me has really helped and will often put my tennis or my
stand up paddling or
Recreation sometimes even before work people look at me and say oh, he must be driven. Actually, I'm not I
Will always find a way to enjoy life
My wife says to me the trouble with you when a wife starts with that phrase, you know
You cringe the the trouble with you
Is you won't burn out, but you'll burn everybody around you out. I
Haven't suffered burnout I haven't lost that passion, but I think it's because that sense of play is
Actually very strong in my life. I'm not I'm not the alpha male that just has to work and work
I'm sure you don't do it for the accolades, but you know when I was researching you you've you've been given lots of stuff for really
Good work. Does that drive you that type of stuff?
And if there is one thing that you go, you know what that was a day, you know
When I got that award that was a day where I went, you know what?
That's that was a good one and you hold it tight
Well, the most surprising award back in 1997 was listed as one of one hundred people on Australia's
by the National Trust
100 Australians, you know Don Bradman who was still alive was there and Dawn Fraser and I I felt pretty proud about that
And I went up to Sydney John Howard introduced to this and we had to go to a table
We discovered later people had paid
$1,500 a ticket to sit at a table hundred tables with one of Australia's 100 national living treasures and
As I walked to the table Gus and people who didn't know who they were going to get saw they had got me
I find it hard to describe the looks on their faces
There they were hoping if not for Kylie Minogue at least Ray Martin
And they got Tim Costello
So I have always kept honors in in the right place
Very humbling to receive them, but I don't think I've ever said now I've made it
There's never been that sense from those honors Gus
I've got no doubt at the end of that lunch. They were all thrilled that they were sitting with you
So I will say that from my point of view. It's been an absolute joy chatting to you today
Can I just quickly go back because we've got a fast five to finish, you know your favorite book your favorite
You know movie that type of stuff
But one thing like character traits seem to be an important part of your family your mom who I would love to meet one day
You're obviously looking at characters and trying to work them out and so forth
Is there a character trait or a set of values that you took from your family that you've now instilled in your?
Children that you will now instill in your
Yeah, I think the character trait I got from my parents was curiosity both as teachers
they kept asking why and
You know, we go on family holidays and stop in country towns and my dad would ask why there are more names from the Second World War
Sorry from the First World War on the on the Anzac Shrine and the Second World War and what were the causes of the war?
And why is this built here in a country town?
So from an early age curiosity was the great trait and I think my children had picked that up. That's fantastic
Let's do that. Let's do the fast five your favorite holiday destination Tim
Well, it's still Victor Harbor a family would go there as kids and I fell in love with that place
learned to play tennis and
Surf and swim a bit and was the happiest time and my family with my siblings life
So Victor Harbor you've spoken about tennis a little bit actually is a you a bit of a daft hand at tennis
Are you you got a few skills there? Oh look modesty prevents me answering that cuss. I
Should say when I had a game with Hugh and Hugh said can I text this because Hugh had beaten me
Yeah, I said how many followers who have you got and he said 14 million
I said no way you're gonna take, you know Instagram that picture. I'm not gonna be that humiliated
We've got 40 million now he's growing all the time right your favorite quote if you have one
Yeah, I I love Martin Luther King. I named my son
Martin and that quote is that the arc of the moral universe is long but a bends toward justice
Love that quote. Yeah, what a man. What a man your favorite movie
it's local hero said in a Scottish village and
Texan oil tycoon turns out to be the
environmentalist the mark Knopfler music is just sublime and that that movie I love
We'll make sure we get that out. What about your favorite book? Are you a reader?
Yeah, I read a lot of books and I must admit that I'd never got to reading war and peace
Suddenly read war and peace and I was just taken away by Tolstoy's
question of why war and
Literally millions of people marching and couldn't they have made different decisions and I found that book extraordinary
I know I know it's a bit intellectually up to admit that I've now read it
But it took me to this age to do it and your favorite charity because we're giving you
$10,000 today to give to your favorite charity. So who would that be and what will they do with the money?
So Micah Australia is running the campaign to end covert for all it's to get the poor world vaccinated less than
2.5 percent of the population in Africa and Asia have had even one jab
3500 health workers there have died of the virus. So that charity is very dear to my heart
Beautiful. Well, we literally could have talked forever team. It's been absolutely
Fantastic to talk to and look forward to a cup of tea one day and continue this chat
Thanks so much for joining us on not an overnight success. It's been a delight. Thank you
That was Tim Costello and what I loved most about the chat with Tim was how
Real he was and the fact that he could have gone anywhere
But he decided to follow the passion of poverty to try to make some real changes
Nothing quite like meeting people that actually see a drama see a situation that needs fixing and they go and do it
I admire him greatly coming up next on not an overnight success is Neil Perry
Neil Perry is one of Australia's most influential restauranteurs
He has spent decades creating iconic venues and special experiences through places like Rockpool
Spice temple and now in his latest creation Margaret new has also been creating menus for Qantas since
1997 and published many cookbooks and good weekend columns
He's a passionate man who speaks openly about his values and beliefs in business and society a big
Thank you to sure and partners financial services who have generously supported this podcast and also donated
$10,000 to the charity of choice of each of our guests to thank them for their time
Sure and partners are an Australian investment and wealth management firm who manage over 28 billion dollars of assets under advice
With seven offices around Australia sure and partners act for and on behalf of individuals
institutions corporates and charities
For more info, you can check out their website at sure and partners.com.au. That's
SHAW for sure sure and partners financial services your partners in building and preserving wealth