Peter Costello Treasure Your Successes

Hi, I'm Gus Wallin and this is not an overnight success brought to you by Shoren Partners

This is a podcast where we sit down with some very successful people from the world of business

Entertainment and sport and talk about their life's journey and what got them to the position that they're in today in today's episode

We are chatting with Peter Costello. Peter was the longest standing treasurer that Australia has ever seen

He is also deemed to be the most successful

With a law background, Peter realized that he didn't want to just act on what the law was

But rather that he wanted to be part of creating it

There are things from his political career that he is proud of and there are things with the benefit of hindsight

He might have changed

There have been rumors of a falling out occurring between him and John Howard for over a decade and that Peter was promised the prime

Ministership before the falling out occurred

All of this is answered in this interview as well as some of the interesting things about his family life, life in Canberra

And how he feels about how the country is being run today

As for all of these podcasts, Shoren Partners have generously donated

$10,000 to the charity of choice of each of our guests

We discuss who that money goes to in this chat. The executive producer of this podcast is Keisha Pettit

Let's get into our chat with Peter Costello

So Peter, what were you like as a kid? Oh, I think I was a bit of a brat actually

I used to get into trouble quite a bit. I had a cheeky mouth

I think I was more than a handful for my school teachers

So that all proved good training when I got into Parliament because being a brat is very helpful in Parliament

You can get up the nose of your opponents

but it got me into a lot of trouble when I was a kid and I think I got my first edition of the

Strap, which is what they used to give you in those days in grade 2 and it wasn't my last either

Wow grade 2 is a little too young. I think for that type of thing wouldn't be allowed these days, but I

Was summoned to the office of the Infant Headmistress who?

Pulled out a big strap and gave me five of the best Wow

And what did mum and dad think of that?

Were they okay with that or did they sort of go up go up and have a chat to the school after I think?

They thought I should have got ten of the best

What was your relationship like with your brother Tim in particular growing up? Well, he was an older brother

He was two years older than me. So he was always

Bigger stronger faster, you know, he could always beat me in games

And he could always beat me in fights

So the only way I could really cope with that was to show grit and determination

So even though I couldn't beat him I keep on playing in the hope that I might I don't think I ever did of course

By the time I got to school. I'd already been

Sort of well trained in

By an older brother and all the things that I needed to know

AFL a big part of your life the Essendon Bombers. What are your memories of first?

supporting them and

Now being a tragic

well

See you become a tragic because you start at a very early age

and you know, I think I probably started before I could I could walk and we had the jumpers and

We played the games in in the backyard and at the park and you always imagined

You could kick the winning goal and it's funny, you know when they speak to these players after the game

How did you feel when you kick the winning goal? They'll always say to you

Oh, I've been imagining this in my mind since I was five years of age

and of course you do you always imagine you kick the winning goal after the siren in my case

Of course, it never happened

But I imagined it a lot and I think it's the same in cricket

You always imagine you hit the the winning four and the test match at Lords or something again

You know, I was lucky to ever get to a school

But in your mind you could always do it

That magical moment within Steve war pumped that one through the covers for a four to bring up his hundred

You know the last over the day. Yeah, you just imagine that's you and the whole fight of the game hangs on you

Like most kids I dream dreamt about it. I did too. I know exactly what you mean

You did speak about cricket. So AFL and cricket were they the two big sports for you and your family?

Yeah, I think so. You know, I love the AFL. I still do I still go quite a bit

But I also love cricket and I look I played cricket a bit

But you know, as I said four was about my top score as I recall

You can't be fantastic at everything and I certainly understand that as I'm getting older

What drew you towards sort of politics considering your sort of legal and law background as a young man?

well, you see when I when I was working I was self-employed as

as a lawyer and

I started doing a lot of work in in what was then called the industrial division of the federal court and

this is where disputes between employers and employees were heard and

This is where wages were settled used to have a thing called the national wage case

So after a while I was briefed to appear in the national wage case and it wasn't really a legal case

It was sort of more an argument about economics and economic theory and and so I got quite interested in economic theory and

Then I thought to myself

You know I spent all these times sort of

Arguing about how the law should apply. It'd be much better if I got involved in making it in the first place

That's that way I could get the outcome. I want it rather than have to argue it under somebody else's laws

so, you know got involved in politics eventually I got

elected and I think I was

32 I think when I first got elected

Something like that, so I was pretty young and it went from there. What was that first?

Night like the the day that you got elected. Was it were you nervous? Did you wake up early?

Did you win easily? What was that for you that day? Well, you never know you see because you know, you think you should win, right?

and we're probably very hard and

But then you think there are 80,000 people voting here and a lot of them might not like me

What if a majority of them don't like me, oh well I'm in trouble

So you never really know until

They count all of the ballots and it's my great surprise. I was elected and

After a while, it's like anything, you know

You get a bit more used to it. You learn how to

evaluate

feedback like

Very few people will actually say to your face. Oh

I don't like the job you're doing

But if they sent you on the street hang on in there that meant you were going pretty bad

Hang on in there if you were doing well, they were much more forthcoming

So

You get to learn how public opinion is made

how it comes about

How you can influence it and after a while you've got a much better idea of what your electoral prospects are going to be

I never lost a personal election

I was I was elected each time I ran for my own particular seat, but I was a member of

An opposition which lost in 1990 1993

and in

2007 and in 2007

You could just say the big bus was coming for us and there wasn't much we could do about it

Yeah

A lot of very very good days in between all those moments and I will get to those

In a moment was it what you expected politics?

Did you were you surprised by anything when you got into it? Look at being in Canberra is a very weird life

Because no one actually lives in Canberra

So you will come in from all over Australia and

you will work together in this building and this building is built into a hill and

You can't go out. You can't walk down the street or anything because there's nowhere around. There's nowhere to walk

No cafe. There's no coffee shop. So your whole life gets lived on the inside of this building and

you know, there are places where you can buy breakfast and

You could go to a bank you get a hair haircut

You could find a travel agent so you never actually

had to go outside this building at any stage except to

to sleep and

so

Every night I would go home at about

10 o'clock sleep and and then come back in at

637 the next morning

And I had a flat for most of that time

And I can honestly say to you I never bought one liter of milk. I

Never bought any breakfast cereal. I never made a piece of toast in that unit

The only thing I ever did was they sleep for six or seven hours every day

so it's it's a very weird life and you live on top of all of the other people are all in the same boat as you and

they might be from

Quite different places around Australia and you realize actually strange a very diverse place

that you know if you come from

Melbourne or Sydney or something a very

different outlook to the guy that comes down from far north, Queensland or the person that

Comes from the Huon Valley in Tasmania

It's a very big and it's a very diverse country and that's interesting I think I've been to

Everywhere in Australia. I really have my wife says, why don't we go to such-and-such? I've been there

Why don't we go to such-and-such?

What did you do? Oh, I gave a speech in the RSL Hall there. Oh, yeah, what's the teller?

I don't know, but the RSL Hall was okay. Why don't we go here? I've been to a nursing home. Why don't we go here?

I don't know. I opened a playground there. It's a very big and very diverse

country and

You don't want to sort of think everybody

Sees issues the same as you do in in the big cities quite different sometimes

What was it like on the family because obviously you you're in Canberra

You're doing a very big job, especially at the end there a huge job for Australia

You must have the most wonderful partner that just sort of keeps everything rolling at home

So you can do that and keep focused on that. Well, that's right

so I have wife Tanya and three children and

We left them, you know at our home in the electorate in Melbourne and

She basically brought them up and I would go to Canberra

Sunday night come back Thursday night Friday. We were reminiscing the other day of three kids each did

Twelve years of school. That's 36 years. I didn't make one parent teach a night in those 36 years

It's it's not something I'm proud of

But that was just it I mean the parent teacher

Things were on

During the week and you just weren't there during the week. Hmm. She must be a saint

She is and most of all she's still married to me. So she's a double-sign. Yeah, that's awesome

Peter your describes as the most successful treasurer that Australia has ever had

How does that make you feel firstly and was there a lot of pressure because you've set such a precedent

Well, well, I held the job longer than anybody else in Australian history course

But I often I often joke I say if I'd have been any good that would have promoted me

But

So I held it through just under 12 years, which is longer than anybody in the 120 years of federal history

So, you know, it gave me the opportunity to do stuff when I started I didn't think I'd do it for 12 years

I thought you know, we voted out after three or after six or or something

But we won a reelection and won another reelection won another reelection

So I was there for the whole period nearly 12 years

Yeah, it was good in the sense that because I was there for such a long time

Opportunity to do stuff like you know reform the tax system pay off government debt

Establish the future fund and these sorts of things which if you're only in the job a year or even three years

You can't do that kind of stuff. So it was good from that point of view and you know

I I never thought that it would last as long as it did

I never thought I'd be the longest serving treasurer in Australian history

I never thought I'd have the opportunity to do those things

But once the opportunity arose I was able to take it. That's life. Isn't it really an opportunity opens for you you either

Take it or you don't you don't know what's going to happen when you take it

Sometimes it really works out for you

The moment that everyone talks to me about when I said that I was going to talk to you

Today was the fact that they always thought that you should have been PM and there was some

Some deal that was made that John Howard was going to hand that over to you at some stage and it didn't happen

What was that moment like for you and and are the room is true that there was sort of a?

Deal or something that you guys were going to do. Well, you know, John had always said to me that

First of all, he said he wanted to do one to him and he'd retire after that and I think you know, he thought well, okay

Well, I'll do two and I'll retire after that and then after he'd done two he sort of thought I'll try a third, you know

And as he continued on you know, but eventually it became obvious to me he was never going to retire

And the only way he was going to retire was either as they say in politics

You can go out through two boxes

You can go out through a ballot box or a coffin and the only way he was going to retire was going out on the ballot box

So when we got to the end of all of that, you know, I'd been Trisha for 12 years

I've been acting prime minister quite a bit. So I knew it was like I'd had the opportunity to

To act in the role and I thought to myself I'll either make a break now or if I don't

I'll get stuck here for another 10 years at least 15 years

Who knows and I'll never get out and eventually they'll take me out in one of those two boxes. So I voluntarily

Retired I you know could say to myself I chose my own exit

Which is very rare in politics and went out at a time of my own choosing and life's been good for me since I

Think I made the right decision. I was just all politicked out as I said, I've been doing this job for 12 years

You never have holidays. You don't have long service leave. You just can't escape it

I was just all politicked out. So I just had to get on and do something different with my life

Are you mates with John Howard now? Well, I don't see him much because he's

He's living in another state from me

But when I do say we talk about what's going on that we both agree that the country be better if we were still running it

So we have some common views

Do you ever feel like my mum for instance big liberal, you know Calara

Which is probably the most blue area up in Sydney and the North Shore

She loved John Howard, but she thought that he had done the wrong thing

He she honestly thought that you were the right person to to take over. Do you feel at times that?

You could have given it a really good crack being PM

You're like you said you were you stood in quite a few times but to have it yourself to have your own setup

Look, you know if the opportunity it presented itself to me. Yeah, of course I would have taken it

But I don't feel you know that I'll be incomplete in my life

As I said, I've been there so long but acted in the job

I'd seen all the benefits and the accoutrements and I just felt if I stayed on

You know would have got and I have seen this happen to people who become prime minister

They get very bitter once they leave. I didn't want to be one of those bitter type of people. I wanted to be a positive

Anyway, I could tell Gus she had a good mother. There's no doubt about that

No, she definitely is she's she's an absolute ripper I owe her everything what motivated you to decide to walk away because John Howard did

say in

2007, you know the man to lead this coalition back to government would be yourself

I love the fact that you were able to deal with it your own way and make your own decision

But was it tempting to stay on? Well, you see what happened on the election night 2007

I was reelected John lost his seat. You see, yeah, so he was no longer there and

Couldn't go back to Canberra. And

Of course because I was the deputy leader. I was I was the leader of the party that night

Because you got to be an MP to be the leader of the party. I just thought to myself everyone said that's great

We've got paid a unit this thought to myself unless I make a break now, I'll get locked into this

So I went out the next morning and said I'm not staying

Then sort of said well, I'll call the party together and I won't run for the leadership

I'll let whoever wants the leadership to run for it, but I'll conduct the ballot

So I went back to Canberra and there was a ballot between Malcolm Turnbull and Brendan Nelson

Which is a very close ballot and I thought good right Brendan's problem now

Was that a relief to you or was that a bit of sadness like what was that moment like or was it a combination of a few emotions?

Yeah, well, you see as I said, so I've been treasurer for 12 years

He's gone through a bruising election campaign. I didn't have holidays for a decade

So there was a bit of relief. Well now I can have a day off

I don't have to get up and listen to the the shock jocks in the morning and I don't have to get up and listen to the

I don't have to get up and listen to the the shock jocks in the morning and I don't have to go on

TV at night and I don't have to give out press releases to the judos during the day

And that's great. And you know, I can go out and have dinner with my family

Which which I hadn't been able to do for course. So there was quite a bit of relief actually in it

but when you tend to when you see people come into your job and

You feel that they're not doing it. Well, you do sort of

What a yell out from the side. Well, I stopped that well, you know be careful about this

And so there is a bit of that for a while

I couldn't watch the TV because you know, I felt that what was going on was undermining some of my achievements

But then you you've got to let it go you you you can't run things from the sidelines

And when you see these politicians that try and do it and there are a few who I won't name who spring to mind

Commenting on their successes and so on, you know, they're they're angry people inside

Yeah, it's hard to get hard to give up. I'm sure

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Let's get back into the episode

Are there any decisions that you look back on you go?

Absolutely got that one right and any on the other side where you go if I had my time over I might have done things

Differently, I think I got it right on the GST. That was certainly the hardest thing that I ever

Implemented because the GST was on all goods and services

Every purchase every day, right?

So there was a life-changing tax that if you've grown up with it, you wouldn't even know you're paying it

And most people don't but introduced and that's the beauty of it, you know, it just raises this revenue but at the time

Jesus it was hard. It was really hard and

You know, I thought to myself, oh boy, you know, what's gonna happen at the end of this?

Well, you know, we're 21 years on from the introduction of the GST. Nobody's changed the right. Nobody's changed the base

Nobody's amended it in any way

It's like a permanent fixture of the Australian taxation system and the only complaint I've hear these days is

You know, there should be more of it. Nobody nobody says we should get rid of it

Yeah, there's a lot of people say oh we'd like some more of that

So so I feel you know, that was hard hard fought for hard one

so I think we did get it right, but

She was hard we you know the the following election we've got a minority of votes

You know, we've got a minority of votes, but we just scraped back home again on a small majority of seats

How long does it take to come up with that GST idea and thought and how many people are in your team that are?

Putting this all together because then you had to obviously then sell it. Well, it took us a year to draft the policy

So we set up a dedicated team

Which I worked for we put them in a building all on their own

We told them I weren't allowed to talk to anybody else. The team was probably about

2030

After 12 months we had the policy and then we had to have an election to save the people

Do you want this as I said, we narrowly won the election nearly lost it

And then of course we had to go back to the Parliament

You had to legislate it through the the lower house and the upper house and then that took another year

And then it started on the 1st of July

2000 and starting it was really hard too because you had to get people to fill in what's called the business activity statement

That was very difficult the so-called bass

so from beginning to end

Three years. Yeah, it's a long time, isn't it?

But you got it done and as you said nothing's been changed in 20 odd years. So that's a big tick

Hmm, that's a big tick, you know any on the other side

I

Wish I'd be able to cut income tax a bit more. That's my big regret very hard to do and we did cut income tax

But I would have liked to have cut a lot more. I think it would have been good for the country

Are there any people in other parts of the world where you would meet?

You know at some sort of summits or something and you would chat about what's happening in Australia

They'd talk about what's happening in America or parts of Europe and you'd go. Oh, that's a good idea

Like was there like a brain trust of you leaders that would spend time together so you could help each other out

Yeah, sure. So that's how the G20 got going as a place to share experiences

I remember discussing GST with the Russian finance administer one of these meetings

He said how's your GST go? Well, how's your going? Oh, we're having trouble. Oh

Yeah, so what are you doing about it? He said

He said well, we've had to arm our tax officials with Kalashnikov rifles

And and I sort of laughed today. He said oh, yes, but it's only for self-defense

Wow

So I came back I said, I don't think they're issuing Kalashnikov rifles to the ATO. I don't think we've got that far yet

That's next year's

program

For you and such having such a wonderful life in politics

Was it hard for you then moving out of politics and finding something that you wanted to do for the rest of your working life?

I think so because the thing about politics is it's it's all-encompassing, right?

You would be amazed

How many people are experts at politics you walk down the street?

What you should be doing you walk down the street and somebody why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that?

You know, why don't you say this? Why don't you say that every person every shopkeeper every taxi driver every hairdresser knows how to run the country

Yeah, you know heard someone say once that the trouble with this country is the only people who really know how to run it became

taxi drivers and hairdressers

And so they're all experts and you're being stopped every day and told what you should do what you should have done

There's no relief from it. I think by the time I finished my they have a thing called a recognition rate

How many people out of a hundred can recognize?

Your name and your office. I had a recognition rate of 95 percent. So

That meant wherever you were

People knew who who you were and she did and and they're all experts, right? So there's no escaping it

It's just consumes you, you know, whether you down the shops whether you're at the beach whether you're on a train

Whatever you're doing. So, you know, it's nice to get out of that

But because you used to working so hard you have to find I had to find

Something that that was pretty energetic, you know, because you're used to working long days

Seven days a week 52 weeks of the year. So, you know as it turned out I've got involved

mostly in business investment activities, which I like and

Which which gave me something something to occupy my time with

Did you have any thought to go? You know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna cruise a little bit here

Or is that just not in your makeup? I think in my mind I thought oh, I'll go live on a Greek island

But you know, I realized after two days off I was a little bored

What about the family they must have gone dad can you can we have a

Holiday together or dad. Can we can we do something together because they'd missed you. Yeah, I think that's right

I was able to take the kids on a couple of holidays, which was nice and

Spend some nights at home, which was good, too. But I'm one of those people that

Needs to do stuff. I can't sit around on a beach all day. Yeah, you'll drive people mad. Yeah, especially my wife. Yeah

This is more about you looking at yourself now sort of what's that?

Character trait of yours that you absolutely love the ego. You know what more of this for more people and then on the flip side

What's the thing you go? Oh, I wouldn't mind a little less of that

Well, I used to sort of try and cheer them all up crack a few jokes here and there

You know, I always thought that the question time should be

entertaining because I look at all these people that come from all over Australia to watch it and come to watch a boring old

Sort of talk fest they'd come to see a bit of light and theater and action

So I used to run the jokes. Well, I can't say they were always successful, but some of them are

There's quite a good highlights reel out there. I don't think they've had too many jokesters since

So, you know, I think you know when I was able to meet people and have a laugh and a bit of a joke

I think that was good

What what's the

Character I don't like

well

You know, maybe I took it too seriously

Sometimes I don't know

yeah, a lot of things get sort of bandied around and politics don't really mean anything and

And you're better to ignore a lot of it than to dwell on it

So I had to keep reminding myself

It doesn't mean anything as they as I used to say today's newspaper is tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper

Yeah, that's for sure

What are some of the achievements that you're most proud of outside of the GST the fact that you're obviously in that treasury spot for the

Longest that anyone has been but is there some other stuff that you just go, you know what as a man is Peter Costello right now

You know, I'm really proud of that

Yeah, the things that used to mean the most to me was when you could actually help people with their problems

You know if you're an MP you

Generally got a suburban or a regional office

People come in with problems

You know

It might be that they've been knocked back for a pension or it might be that they've got a veteran in the family who needs a

partial pension or

compensation or

It might be that they can't get a particular

medication and if you're able to sort of help them get that part pension or help them navigate through a

means test or

You know in my case new

Pharmaceutical products that you could put on the pharmaceutical benefit scheme and they would get access

That's the thing that sort of meant the most to me because you you are there as a member of Parliament to represent your people

And if you could actually get them good outcomes, you can even change people's lives

and so that's you know, I think a few of those and I you know, I've got a

folder of letters from satisfied customers

Saying thanks for this and thanks for that. That's the thing that really meant the most to me

I can totally imagine that that would be a beautiful moment to be able to help people look them in the eye and know that

You've done something that's changed their life for that for a positive. Yeah, that's right

And help them for the better. Was there a moment Peter where you just went? Yes. I am successful

You know, I've got somewhere, you know

well, I

think

You know look back on it when I was just a new treasurer and I went off for talks in the US

I was talking to the New York Stock Exchange and they said we'd like you to come out and ring the bell and open the New

York Stock Exchange, you know, you stand up on this podium and all the traders down there and

And some guy says now the Australian Treasurer will open trading on the New York Stock Exchange

And of course you ring this bell and clap and everyone looks at you at claps

I thought yeah, this is nice. Yeah, I could open this

And and and then the Dow Jones fell 200 points that wasn't very good

For a moment though, it was magic. Yeah

I want to ask you one quick question before we do the fast five, which is that how we end our podcast?

It hasn't been easy

Obviously the work that I do in mental fitness and trying to get people through

Mentally through the last couple of years has been really challenging

But in terms of Josh Frydenberg's position, would you say from your experience that he's done a good job?

What are your thoughts on Josh?

Well, I know Josh pretty well and I see him quite regularly. So I

Think he's done a really good job. I think he's applied himself

One thing I'll tell you about Josh is a very hard worker. With the COVID thing, it was very difficult

Because we didn't really know

How dangerous this virus was and in a way

The shutdowns were beyond the control of the federal government. They were all done by state governments

So it was a very difficult period for him and for Scott Morrison for that matter

So yeah, I reckon he's done really well. I actually write down

Republic as well thoughts on the Republic and do you think we will get there in the next little while or do you think?

It's something that's on the back burner for the moment

Well, you know, I I think we'd be better if we were a public

That was my view

When we added a referendum, still my view and I was just thinking that with this Glasgow thing

you know, the Queen sort of gave a message to

all of the delegates at

Glasgow and

Obviously her comments had been approved by the British government and she was speaking on behalf of the British government because

There it is. It's in Glasgow. It's in Britain, but she's also our Queen and we didn't get a look at into what she was going to say

And as a consequence of that, I just thought there's always this confusion on the international stage as to

Who she speaks for and and who advises her so, you know

I think it'd be better if we had someone from Australia who did that

Will it happen? I think it probably will I think it probably will

after the Queen passes

Australia will come back to it because she's held in great esteem

And you do have to hand it to her. I mean, she's 93. She'd go pretty well

Sure is so, you know, I think I think we will return to it

But it's funny that that ballot was in 1999

So it's now more than 20 years old and I remember people saying oh well

You can vote against this this model because if we vote against this model

We'll have another bottle in a few years time

And I said look these votes only come around once in a generation and sometimes they would come back again and looking back

There was a once in a generation, but I think we'd probably return to it. But you know, it could be another 10 years

Is there anyone that sticks out you go? You know what because that to me?

I can't believe America hasn't got someone that just as complete standout that you can go right

I want to vote for him or her

Whereas do you think we need someone like that in Australia for us to go? That would be our president. That would be really cool

Do you do you think we need that sort of person? I don't know that there are such people really

You know, I've met the presidents and the prime ministers of all the leading countries and a royalty too and

At the end of the day, you know, they're all people

They've all got their strengths and they've all got their weaknesses

And I think at the time of our referendum that the person who was the most popular person for president was Dick Smith

Well, I don't think dick would be even on the radar today young people probably wouldn't even know who he was

So I just don't think in this world that there's any such thing as the perfect human being

No, you're absolutely right. Who's the most impressive person you've ever met out of all those kings and queens and prime ministers and presidents

Did you have one that you went? Oh, it'd be great to have a beer with I'd love to take him to Wessenden

Or I'd love to get him home for a roast on a Sunday

Well, yeah, I think the bloke that you'd sort of want to go out to a pub with would be Bill Clinton

He'd go well in a pub having a few beers and he's always struck me as a sort of a good time fellow

You know what they call in America a good old boy. Good old boy. Yeah. No, there's no doubt

Okay, the fast five your favorite holiday destination and have you gone there because by the sounds of it, you're always working

No, well, my favorite destination is somewhere with the beach and waves crashing on the beach

But it can be in Australia. It can be abroad. It doesn't have to be any particular place. It just has to be a beach

Yep, beautiful your favorite quote. Is there a quote that you've lived by or one that you heard and you went?

You know what? I love it. I won't bore you with the poem

It comes from but there was a famous poem by Arthur Clarke

Called say not the struggle nor thought nor to bail us and it finishes with the line

West would look the land is bright and the idea is, you know

However down you might feel if you take into account the full perspective

The land is bright that things will be okay. So that'll be my message of the day. I love that

I love being positive your favorite movie the Blues Brothers

Fantastic your favorite book. Oh the Costello memoirs my own book. It must be

Fantastic. Beautiful still about still available in all good books sold out. I'm afraid needs a reprint

That's a good problem to have. Yeah, and the final question, which is a really important one

It had some support from a friend of mine

He's a great friend of mine

And the final question, which is a really important one

It had some support from Sean partners who have been wonderful supporters for this podcast and for my foundation

Gotcha for life and they would like to donate

$10,000 to a charity of your choice

And if you could tell us who that is and what do you think they would do with the $10,000 as we wrap up?

The podcast with you Peter

Well, I'd like to support a charity that I've been supporting for a long time called Very Special Kids

Which is a hospice and respite services for kids who have terminal illnesses

And it's in my area kids who are dying can be looked after there and I looked after there and their parents

Can have a week's holiday or a couple of weeks holiday by putting the kids in for respite care

And and I know the nun that founded it. She's been a fantastic job over a long period of time

So I'd like to nominate Very Special Kids to get the $10,000 or whatever is available to continue their work

Beautiful. No, definitely $10,000

We'll put that in their account and we'll let them know that that's from your generosity, Peter

And thank you for your generosity of time today

I know there's lots going on in your world, but it's been lovely to chat to you on the Not an Overnight Success podcast

Terrific. Thanks. Great to be with you Gus and give my regards to your mum. She sounds like a great person

I'll let her know that you're thinking of her. Thanks mate

That was Peter Costello

What I really enjoyed about Peter was sitting down with someone that I remember growing up with had such an important position

The fact that he just spoke so openly about the situation with John Howard

And I love the fact that he can look back on his career and say I perhaps could have done things differently

Coming up in the next episode of Not an Overnight Success are two of the most humble and grounded athletes that I've ever come across

Tom and Jake Trevojevic

I've known both of these gents since they were young boys playing in the northern beaches of Sydney

I've even done canteen duty with their mum

Both Tom and Jake are exceptions to the way we typically view footballers

In this chat we speak about whether they will remain one club players, their intense family dynamic and managing life in the public eye

Yes, including that incident in the Corso

A big thank you to Shaw and Partners Financial Services who have generously supported this podcast and also donated $10,000 to the charity of choice of each of our guests to thank them for their time

Shaw and Partners are an Australian investment and wealth management firm who manage over $28 billion of assets under advice

With seven offices around Australia, Shaw and Partners act for and on behalf of individuals, institutions, corporates and charities

For more info you can check out their website at shawandpartners.com.au

That's S-H-A-W for Shaw

Shaw and Partners Financial Services, your partners in building and preserving wealth