Lorna Jane Clarkson There_S No One Better To Be In Business With Than The Person You Love The Most

G'day, it's Gus Wallin, host of Not An Overnight Success podcast series, brought to you by our mates at Shore & Partners Financial Services.

Today it's Lorna Jane Clarkson. You may know her as Lorna Jane, someone who I was a little bit intimidated, I must admit, a little bit nervous at the start to talk about.

In fact, I mentioned that to her, but it was a wonderful chat. I really enjoyed it. She's an inspiration.

What I love most is the fact that she's one of those Aussies that just went out there and had a crack.

She knew there was an opportunity and she just went for it, even though she couldn't sew very well. Hope you enjoy our chat with Lorna Jane.

Lorna Jane, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

Good, thanks. Thanks for having me and thank you for allowing me to do it in my office. I really appreciate it.

Of course, it looks very nice there too, sort of for people that can see the video. What's behind you there? Lots of lovely black and whites by the looks of it.

Some of my awards from many years ago, some oxygen plants to sort of give me some oxygen while I'm in here. But you know, the other side looks a mess because I've moved all my mess onto the other side. I'm not going to show you.

Nicely done. Well played. I want to go back and find out a little bit about you. What were you like as a young lady, like literally as a child? What was your growing up time like?

Okay, so something that most people don't know is that I was actually born in England, but I've actually lived in Australia most of my life. So I do consider myself an honorary Australian when people ask.

So born in England in a really small country town, lived there till I was six. And I have been back there since. And you know what, Gus? It looks exactly the same.

The church is in the same spot, the corner store where we used to like pinch lollies off the counter, all that sort of thing. But a really nice upbringing. My parents divorced when I was six.

I think my sister was about 10. And we moved to a bigger city, Chester in England, still quite small. But my memory of my childhood is lots of family.

You know, like even when my parents divorced, my dad would still be there for like birthdays and Christmases and things like that. So it was very amicable.

My grandparents and there was always lots of family around, like in England, in these small country towns, your family lives down the road. You know what I mean? You just have to walk to see your family.

My grandparents were from Liverpool. So there was always lots of fights about who was supporting Liverpool and Everton at the time, you know, with the soccer and that sort of thing.

So a really great childhood. And then when I was 11, we emigrated to Australia, which was really life changing for me, because it was a totally different world, you know.

And I think it opened up my eyes to being outdoors more, actually using my body physically. Like before that, I was a bit of a bookworm, like to stay indoors, a bit of a loner.

So no, but I think I look back at my childhood and think, you know, we didn't have that much, very middle class, but we didn't want anything either.

You know, it's like we never went out for dinner. We never had takeaway. We went to the beach. We'd have mum would make sandwiches. It was that sort of family, you know.

But ideally, I wouldn't have wanted it to be any other way. And we're still really close as a family. So I think that says a lot for your upbringing and how close you are to your family, you know.

And good on your mum and dad for being so adult around the fact that they weren't going to be together, because that's stuffed up plenty of families, that sort of animosity that mums and dads have to each other after a breakup.

Yeah. And I think about that. And I think about some of my friends that have been through divorces. And admittedly, they're like my husband, his parents divorced when he was 16.

So, but I feel like it was more traumatic and they hated each other, you know. So, yeah, I think we were really fortunate because, you know, I went through a period of time when people were always like saying, oh, I've got all these problems because my parents divorced.

And I used to think, I've got no problems. Well, I don't think I have. And my parents divorced. So I'm one of those people, I don't want to know about my problems. I'm happy. I'm not going to look into it.

Yeah, no, that's fair enough, too. I remember my dad left sort of the family home when I was about 10. But he came back a couple of days a week and did the bills and clean the pool and whatever.

And I found out years and years later that my dad had left my mum for another man. So they didn't tell me till I was 18, because my life was actually going along pretty well and my bubble didn't want to be burst.

But I found out later and that actually made it easier for me because my dad still loved my mum, but he just wasn't in love with her in that way because of who he is. And he ended up with someone who's still with now, which is wonderful.

But I think that helped me through my teenage years for sure that they still loved each other. There was still that connection and I could see them together, not at each other.

Yeah, and I think I found out some stories later about when we emigrated and my dad didn't even know that my mum was taking us out of the country. And she didn't do that because she didn't want him to stop her.

And when I say that to some of my friends, they go, Oh my God, how can you talk to your mother about this? Like, how can you get over that? But for me, I feel like everything a mother does for her children is she believes at the time is for the best.

And we continue to have a relationship with my father. So he forgave her. So we should forgive her as well. So I agree. I think a divorce would never be great. But when they do it well, the children don't feel it.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure there was when I know the story about who's with who and all that sort of thing now, I think, yeah, well, it probably wasn't as amicable as we thought. But as long as the children feel like that, well, then they're doing a good job.

That's right. I'm totally with you. So you leave England, you come to Australia. When you first arrive in Australia, do you miss England? Or are you just here and you're like, wow, this is awesome. This is going to be great. What was your feelings if you can remember as a young girl?

It was a long time ago, trust me. Sorry. Okay, so I don't want you to choke on your water. Sorry. I don't remember missing England. I feel like if I if I want to be completely honest, it was just this paradise.

So my mum's brother and family had already emigrated. That was part of the reason that we were coming. And my mum's parents were thinking of emigrating as well. At the time in England, it was I think it was about 1975, 76, Australia was looked at as the land of opportunity.

So many English people actually emigrating to Canada and America. But we were looking to Australia because we had family there. And so we were already excited. And I mean, just the difference in the weather, like the weather in England is atrocious. But where we lived in

Northern England, it is it's so close to Scotland is freezing. You know, like when I used to go back and visit my dad, I used to have to wear a balaclava when I went running. It's like so cold, you know, so I think it was just this beaches outdoor. I remember thinking there

was too many flies, like I really like the flies, too many bugs, you know, like the spiders are massive, all that sort of thing, too many things that can kill you. But overall, it was exciting. I remember being different, though, like I remember at school, having a different

accent, dressing differently. I think I was in grade six. So having a bit of a mean girl thing happening. And they decided not academically, but because of actually, I think it was just the way the school years were to like, I finished grade six. And then I should have been in grade seven, but I finished grade six. And then I did grade seven. So I stayed back a little bit. So I was like, one of the oldest in the class, which I think did help me a little bit, because the school curriculum was so

different. But yeah, I had a bit of a mean girl. And those girls actually ended up being my best friends. So that's how I'm going to make you love me syndrome that I have. Yeah, I think overall, I was really excited to be here and to experience this country that was just so beautiful. And you could be outdoors more, you know, it was that feeling. I don't think you know that feeling unless you've lived in England and where we lived, it rained nearly every day.

Yeah, well, I married an English girl. So we spent quite a bit of time in England. So I know what you mean. In fact, her father was from Liverpool. And I'm a mad, I'm a mad red. Are you red or blue?

I think I do go between my dad was red and my mom's family were blue. You know what, I like the ones that's winning.

So you're red, you're red more than blue. I'm not sure you're allowed to go between the red and the blue. I don't think you could say that in England to your family. You definitely have to make your choice.

I've never been one to play by the rules. We were just talking about that before. Like, I just have to do everything differently. It might not be better, but it just has to be different.

I like it. I like it. And I love the fact that you say it out loud so much as well. So, so things are going well. The mean girls turn into your best mates and so forth. So your childhood is a good one. Your teenage years, boys, sport. Are you good at school?

I'm more academic than sporty, that's for sure. And I'm fairly quiet. I like my mum will say between my sister and myself that, well, she won't say this, but it was pretty obvious that Julie was more popular. You know, she was really good at sport.

She always had a group of friends around her, whereas I was more sort of indoorsy. And if I had a friend around, it was one one special friend, you know, like I sort of liked one on one rather than this whole group of people.

But I really looked up to my sister and I adored her and I loved that she was like that. But I feel like I was in her shadow, but not in a bad way. I just loved her being like that because I could step into it and then come back into my safe sort of, you know, I was a real

mummy's girl. Like even on this is embarrassing, but even up when I was 16, 17, 18, I would still go grocery shopping with my mum on Thursday nights. Like I just loved being with my mum, you know, like, who does that? Like that would never happen now, you know, but I just loved being with my family.

Like even as a really small child, if I went to stay overnight at someone's house, I used to want to come home as soon as it was ready to go to bed. I would want to come home, you know, so I just wasn't I just loved being around my own family and the security of it.

But I think I learned from my sister, like I learned that there was a different way to be and I admired it. So I don't know whether that had anything to do with me becoming a little bit more outgoing as I got older. But I am not what you would expect.

But I'm still the same. Like I'm still the same. Like, you know, I love being around people and love talking about my business. And I love trying to impart anything that I've learned to other people if they can have any benefit of it. Like the first while I was sitting here waiting to come online with you today, I get a little bit nervous and, and my team are like, Oh, you're so good at this. Why do you get nervous? And I'm like, because I want to make sure that I give people something that is beneficial. You know, I just don't want to get on

there and just talk about myself. How boring. You know what I mean? Who wants to know about me? You know, like, but I feel like if I can give some knowledge of something I've learned, then I think it's worth a listen.

Sure. I also think in this day and age in particular, people want people to be authentic and real. And that's exactly what you are. You know, straight away, I must admit, I do this quite often. I've got a radio show every afternoon in Sydney. So I talk to people a lot. I was a little bit nervous about talking to you today, for a whole heap of different reasons.

But as soon as you came on, all my worries, that weren't really worries, but all my sort of, I just, it just went away. And I just feel like we're now two old mates having a chat, which is pretty much what this podcast is all about. And that's what our, that's what our people that like this podcast like about is that you get to see a side of someone where they're just completely authentic and real.

Okay, so now I need to know why. Why were you nervous?

You're a bit of a big deal.

My wife, you know, I've seen your name in my washing for like so long, I've folded it for so long. Plus, when I left home today, I went and saw another friend who's another lady. And she goes, Oh, if you're talking to Lorna, can you just, the strap on my pair of, you know, she started giving, could you get Lorna to let me know that? And it was just all that fun stuff around that. And I suppose for me, that was something that I just wanted to know.

That was something that I just wanted to make sure that you and I got along because this is how these podcasts best work. So I feel very relaxed now.

It's nice to know that we both feel the same. You know what I mean? Like, I just feel like we're just two humans wanting to have a conversation that means something. But also, you want to put me at ease, I want to put you at ease. We both want to enjoy it. This is an hour of our life, right? We want to enjoy it as well. So no, it's good. Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too. And it means something, you know, we've got respect for each other. And we want to make sure that everything's okay. So I love your relationship with your mum. And I love your relationship with your sister. Is that still something that is powerful for you that those relationships?

Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting, because I'm so close to my family. And my husband is completely the opposite. All he needs is me, you know, which can be a bit of pressure sometimes.

But I need people around me. And I guess being brought up in that way with family just down the road, it is. But I mean, just to give you an example, my sister's just bought a farm on the Sunshine Coast. But she hasn't given up work yet. So she lives with me four days a week. And I love that. You know what it means? So she stays in my home, so she can work and it's coming to an end. I'm missing her already, which is crazy. I haven't told my husband yet.

And we are just that place. Like, anytime that my mum comes into the city, because she lives a bit further out, everyone just stays at our house. You know, it's like my husband saying, you know, we don't need a big house in Brisbane anymore. Yes, we do. Because people won't be able to stay here.

Yeah, you know, so I feel like, I don't know, it's the relationships you have in life that matter, isn't it? You know, the best. And it's those relationships that have stood the test of time. I have two girlfriends who I have known for so long. I mean, they were there when I was sitting on a sewing machine. My one girlfriend was there in grade six when I, you know, when I started that school, and there was all those mean girls around me. And she even I remember her, because she was in sort of the cool clique. She actually I remember her going and asking if I

could be part of their group. Oh, she wanted you in. Yeah. And they said yes. And they're all talking about you now. You know, Lorna Jane and I, we were mates at school. You know, they're saying that. Yeah, maybe I went to a reunion recently. Oh, my god, I have to stop going to reunions because they're traumatic.

Traumatic. Why?

I don't know. Like, the last one I went to was just recently. And there was someone there, I won't say who, who had a story about something to do with me that was completely different to my version of the story. And so I'm saying to him, that is not the story. This is the story. But he was convinced the other was the story. So I'm trying to get everyone behind me to say you were there. This is the story. But now I'm like, I'm at the point right now is like, was his the right story?

Well, at the last one I went to, we had to have name tags on because we all look so different to we used to almost like, oh, my god, I can't believe that we're like, I'm 55 in December. So 986, I finished school. So what's that we're coming up, you know, sort of between 35 and 40 years. And not a lot of people got here anymore. Everyone's grabbed a few more inches around the belly. It's, it's not a good look.

Now, I think it's easier for women because you know, we can put makeup on and we can do a hair and it's more acceptable for us to color our hair and that sort of thing. But the amount of people that come up to you and say, we're the only ones that haven't aged, you know, and I'm thinking, well, I think you've aged. And then I'm thinking, and I'm thinking, and I've obviously aged because if you're thinking you haven't aged, and I'm thinking I haven't aged, we've both got it wrong.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know what, you want to age, don't you?

Oh, I believe that for sure. I think sort of going old disgracefully is a fantastic way to go.

Better than the alternative, right? Like just to like not have the, have the ability to live a long life, you know.

Of course. Okay, so relationship with sisters great, mums great, that's all good. You get through school, you're more of a bookworm, you're more academic than you are sporty. At what stage at the end of school, do you decide to do what you've now become famous for?

So when I finished school, I actually wanted to be a journalist. But I think I wanted to be a journalist because I wanted to be young event. I wanted to be here. I want to be on television. So I must have had some of that instinct to want to be in the public eye, you know, I must have had something there.

My mom, like, worked it out. And she sort of knew me as a person. And I'm a very sensitive person. And I like to look for the best in people, which is a weird thing to say about yourself. But it's the truth. Okay, so

mom thought, you know, the world of journalism would kill me. You know, I don't drink, I don't do any of those things. So she saw that I ended up in bars, like, you know, trying to get stories. And it was it would be just like heartbreaking for me. And it would change me as a person. So she taught me out of it. And she said, Look, you can still follow that. Like, I still had my score and all that sort of thing. And I had been accepted into university to do journalism. But she said, Why don't you just take a bit of a break and do something else? And, and it wasn't a luxury for me to like, go on a holiday or have a

happy or anything like that, we couldn't afford that. So I decided to study dental therapy, two year course. And I think while you were studying, you actually were earning money at the same time, I think. So while I was doing that, and I thought it was a cool job, and I liked it, and the girls were great. But I started teaching fitness classes. And I just fell in love with it. Like, we've talked about the fact that you're this outgoing person, and then you're this quiet person. But I feel like, if you stand up in front of 100 people, because the classes are really

big there, in a G string leotard, and try to motivate people to move their bodies, I think you can overcome anything. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like you can really, any fear of speaking in public or getting up in front of people just completely vanishes. So I just fell in love with it. What I didn't fall in love with was what you actually had to choose from to wear. I've always loved fashion. And I just started making my own clothes only for

myself. No inclination to make it into a business, not one bit. You know, I just got my favorite swimsuit. I don't even know the brand. But I think I bought it from sports school, but I think it was a different brand. I just unpicked it, laid it on some newspaper, made a

pattern and just made myself an outfit. And then I started making more outfits. And then my instructor friends convinced me to make some for them. And it went from there. Like, I remember standing in front of a

fitness class about to teach, and just looking down and thinking to myself, Oh, my God, everybody in this class is wearing Lorajane. Like, it was just unbelievable. So I just yeah, it was just that moment. And I don't know exactly, but I'm pretty sure that night I

decided to quit my day job and start doing it full time. Because I still had the fitness instructing as a backup to, you know, supplement my income. And I remember I took a job on the front desk at World Gym where I was teaching. So I thought, I've got this reception

hours, I've got some classes, you know, and I'll keep making, he gave me a little room upstairs, where I could cut and sew and have a little showroom. And I think I lasted about three weeks, because it just got too busy, which was

incredible. I mean, I was the only one doing it so I can understand. And I was very influential in the industry, because you stand up in front of people and you teach them about fitness, they look up to you, you know, you almost become a

celebrity in that realm. So if you tell them this is what you need to wear, you know, they're going to wear it. I remember I used to go to different gyms. I think I invented the pop up straw guss because, yeah, I'm not really sure.

Let's run with it.

Yeah, let's run with it. So I used to get on the stage, and I'd be in the latest outfit. And then I'd have a rack at the side of the stage and my clothes like lying on the floor. I'd say, Hey, I'm Lorna Jane. Just before we start the class, just let you know, I actually make

activewear. This is one of my outfits, you know, if you want to come and see me after the class, I make to me I made to measure at the time I make to measure or you can buy one of these and, and then we teach the class and it was brilliant. I didn't realize at the

time. But here's me jumping up and down in like a latest creation. They're looking at me the whole time going, I think I need one of those, you know, so it makes sense that it would really take off, you know, so yeah, went from there.

How did you learn to do it? Like to all the sewing and stuff? Like, I understand you having a passion for fashion and knowing what you wanted to feel like to move, but to actually then do it, do the sewing and that sort of stuff? Like, is that something you did with your mom and your sister as you were growing up? Or did you just find that skill?

No, I did Home Ec, I think for the first year, Home Economics, I think it's called something different now. But yeah, I did Home Economics at school, but was terrible at it. I think I was more of a cook than a sewer. But at one time, I had a girlfriend who was a Home Economics teacher. And so I bought a Junomi sewing machine. And she just taught me how to use it, you know, and I just, I guess I must have just had a natural instinct, I think. But for me, it's sort of basic. I've got a swimsuit, I unpick it, I lay it on some fabric.

I outline it, cut it, and then I just try to sew it back up again. I feel like I started pretty, you know, basic. Over the years, I've tried to get some recalls on some of the garments. And I do have some of the early ones, not the really, really early ones that I was sewing myself. But they're pretty horrendous. Like, they look, they look incredible, like on a body. But when you're like, for me, when I look at it, they're all zigzag stitched and there's raw edges and they're not great.

Okay, so that's another little piece of your personality I've just picked up, is you're a perfectionist when it comes to your actual work?

Yeah, I know. It's one of my downfalls. But I think it's also something that makes Lorna Jane what it is. It's like, I've just actually employed a head designer and she just constantly is saying to me, now I know. Now I know why Lorna Jane is what it is. It's because you are in the detail, you care.

About the things that a lot of other places that she had worked just don't even see, you know, so I think that's from actually doing everything. Like, there's a lot to be said for actually making the garments yourself in the beginning, selling the garments yourself, you know, all that sort of thing.

Like, I feel like when you've done everything in your business and started really small, and I grew quite slowly in the beginning, and I was comfortable with that, because I never wanted to be a big business. I just wanted to do this thing that I love to do, you know, and see people being inspired to work out more because they love the way they felt in the clothing, you know, so I have never let go of that. And I can honestly say I still love this job and this work, like I did in the beginning.

And it's much more varied now. And I do get to pick and choose what I don't want to do and what I do want to do. But yeah, I feel incredibly blessed to have found that thing that sets my heart on fire, you know, also my husband would have to put that in. He sets my heart on fire too.

Hey, don't worry, we'll have a chat about the Big Feather in a second. There's plenty of people though that start off like that and then as it gets bigger and stuff, just drop the ball a little bit. You know, I'm going to put someone in that role, I don't need to be across that so much. For someone who's a perfectionist and what you've told us you like to be in the detail, how's that been for you and your head noise around making sure that you can give a little bit of licence to the people that are really good at the job that you've employed, you know, to make sure you're not micromanaging that? Like, how's that been for you and your head noise around making sure that you can give a little bit of licence to the people that are really good at the job that you've employed, you know, to make sure you're not micromanaging that?

Like, how does that work within your setup?

Some days it's good. Some days it's not so good. I do know over the years that I like less people. Lorna Jane, never say never, I know, but I believe Lorna Jane will never be a business where there's lots of layers in the business. How I personally feel about the people that work for me, I want a relationship with them. I want to be important to them and I want them to be important to me. So it can't be everybody. Of course, we have

100 stores. I can't know every single girl that works in a store. But specifically at head office, I want to know faces and I'm not great with names, so I'll never know that. But I just want to know. Of course, I'm not as good at everything as some of the professionals that work for me. And I really like to lean into that. I think that's important. And obviously, Lorna Jane is where it is today because of that. But I just, I have this big business and I feel like I have managed with my husband, of course,

to keep it like a family-owned business. And I guess that may come back from my childhood, you know. And I've only just realized that because I'm talking to you about it, you know. But I like that. I want to have meaningful relationships, you know. That also means when someone leaves, it's devastating for us all. Like if someone has to leave for a reason or they're moving into state or something, there's lots of tears. And we also have a lot of boomerang stuff that come back, you know. We always let them know, you know, like, here's the boomerang. If you

ever want to come back, we'll find a place for you.

I love that.

Because we're like family and people recognize and can give me a look that says to me, you're over managing this. You need to let go of this. You know, we can have those conversations. And I'm really proud of that. Like, there isn't so much hierarchy in our business. Like all the doors are open. And I think we allow people to speak freely about how they feel or their idea on something. We have a lot of young people that work here.

A lot of young women. And I pride myself on the fact that you can start on the retail floor, and you can actually be running marketing in a matter of years, if you're willing to work hard and really believe in it. And loyalty is a big thing for me.

Yeah, I think with everything for you in the half an hour we've chatted so far, it's family, it's loyalty, it's connection. It's that feel that's very, very, it's like the vibe, you know, from from the Castle movie all those years ago. It's the vibe, you get the right vibe, then

everything seems to sort of just connect up nicely. And that's what I that's the vibe that I'm certainly getting, which sounds fantastic. So things are starting to rock and roll, you say things are slow at the start, but you see that there's a future.

At what point do you go, oh, okay, this is actually catching on fire now. This is really, really great. And I can make a living out of it and also build, you know, something which it is today.

Bill and I were already living together when I quit my day job, I think.

So was Bill your first love?

He won't listen to this anyway. Of course, my first real love, I mean, you know, but I think I thought I was in love once before. No, twice before. And one was a high school love. So you really can't count that. But I feel like I was in love before that. But then, you know, when you meet that person, like Bill said, we met in Cairns when I was there as a dental therapist, but I remember telling him that my boyfriend at the time had asked me

to marry him. And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm not really sure about this. And we just had a conversation about it because we were friends. And he tells me now that as I walked away, he had just had this feeling that in his body that he just thought, you're not going to marry him, you're going to marry me.

This realization, like, and I know it sounds really cocky, but he just had this realization, like, no, that's not how this is going to play out, you know, which is sort of cute.

Yeah. So were you his first love?

Um, you have to ask him that. But I think real love, but I think he had one love before me.

Yeah, yeah. I must admit, I had a couple that I thought I was in love with. Then I met my wife. And I couldn't do anything about it, because she was going out with another bloke. And I was Australian doing my gap year in England. And I just went, oh, dear, I'm in trouble here.

And then three years later, I hadn't seen her for that long. I'd known her for a year, then had three years separately. I then asked her to marry me the first time I flew across and she told me to f off actually.

And called me a stupid Australian and blah, blah, blah. But she didn't say no, officially. And then about a month later, she goes, you know what, I can't get it out of my head, like, let's have a long engagement, but I reckon this could work and 30 odd years later.

So I do know what you mean when you feel you're in love. And it's nice. But then when you see find the real one, wow, that's knocks your socks off.

I think I'd like your wife. I think I'd really like her.

You guys would get along great. And she's very nurturing and very loving and very family. It's we've lost both her mum and dad now. And we're going back to England soon. And she's really struggling with that going home and not having

that connection, you know, it's going to be, you know, graveyards rather than pubs and fun and shopping and stuff. It's it's just different, you know, and it's really not going to for six at the moment.

I haven't been back to England since my my father stayed in England. I haven't been back since he passed.

And yeah, it will be it. I don't want to go back to me. There's like no reason. And I feel like it would be that, you know, but she's going to see the kids.

That's it. That's it. And they're going to go skiing and they're going to have fun. And it's going to be awesome. But just those little connection points, you know, when they she walks back into the family home, because there's a stepdad who's a champion.

So that's still all there and just walking in the room and where grandma or her mum would normally be sitting and having a G&T in the afternoons or rallying everyone for dinner that you know, she just that's just not there anymore. And that's that's sad.

But it's nice to remember as well, don't you think? Like, it's really nice. Like, I know, like, I put myself in that situation. There'd be lots of tears. But then after that, there'd be like sitting in that spot and just remembering things.

And remember when Nana said this and I remember when she did this and you know, when she got said it had to say everybody's name before she got to yours and all that sort of thing, you know.

Exactly. That's what I said. Well, what wonderful memories that you've got. And there's a reason for that because you loved each other so much. So that's the thing you hold on to. So Bill's in play now. And he's sort of the finance, the numbers, the accounting sort of guy roughly, the business guy, is he? Like, how does that all work when you're still just dating?

Okay, so I'll tell you sort of how he got involved in the business. So it was me. It was a one man show. My sewing wasn't great. I think we established that. What I used to do then is design and cut, and then give my the cut pieces to outworkers. And they used to take them home. It was it was magical Gus, I would like to send these pieces and they'd come back like clothes. It was incredible. I just loved it. I had all the skills I didn't. Great story is that one of the ladies that did the

that for me back really back in the early days, Karen, she continued to work for me till up until I think I'm really not good with years, but up until about five years ago. So she worked, and like started doing that and then came to work in my factory, because I had a factory in Brisbane, she trained all my

workers, then she trained the people in my factory in China. And then she came here. And in the end, she just came in a few days a week and was making curtains for stores. But I just felt that she really helped me so much that I just gave her a job for life. And I valued her as a job for life. It was not charitable at all. Like, I would go and ask her questions and she could remind me of who I really was.

Not to get too big for my boots and all that sort of thing. So yeah, that was a great story. So yeah, we were doing that. And I remember distinctly, so I was at that stage where I think it was year two, and I would like collect all my receipts in a Manila folder. And I could actually physically walk down the road, we were living in Padditt in Brisbane at the time, to my my tax accountant and say to him, here you go. This is for the year. And I remember him saying to me, Hey, Lorna, your business

is getting too big for you to turn up once a year with this folder full of receipts, half the receipts that you view, you know, and gave me this sort of nice lecture about, you know, you need to be doing things a little bit more seriously now your business is quite legitimate. And I

remember going home and saying to Bill, crying on the doorstep of our house saying, No, I can't do this. It's not fun anymore. I just don't want to do it. And Bill just said, Well, you know, we talked a little bit and then he paused and he said, How about I step

in? How about I quit my job? And we do this together. And I just it was just instantly like, Wow, this would be great. I think there was a couple of moments of like, really, can we actually do this without your income? He had a career business at the time? Like, can we really do this? And you know, we had a mortgage, we just got a new mortgage, we bought this house that really needed renovating, really needed renovating. I think there was holes in the floor and stuff like that. But we did it. And it was a really good combination of Bill allowing

me to stay creative. And it's still like that today. It's my role is the creative. And his role is just not not really the finance, just the business side of it, you know, opening stores, looking after the staff. And of course, I feel that his team has grown a lot bigger than mine, because to run a business is a lot more arduous than actually designing the product. Although you can't have a business without the product, right? It's very important.

Don't put the cap of all the force.

Of course. So we just did that. I mean, that just really worked. And then the business just grew. I think without Bill, it would have been a small business. I just love doing it. I love teaching classes. I love meeting all these people. I loved them telling me how much they loved my product. I really loved that connection with my customer. I found it really hard not to work in the retail stores down the line. Now I'm scared of it.

I really get a bit scared of going into store. I think people expect something of me and I don't want to disappoint them. You know what I mean? Like,

if I could say just quickly, I'm pretty sure you're not going to disappoint anyone if you walk in anywhere in the world. So I think that's that's a given. Can I ask about you and Bill at some stage? Did you go in your decision making? I'm not sure if I want to live with this guy and work with this guy like my wife and I work in our charity now together.

But we need to give each other space. We need to give time when we don't talk about it. It is a stress on the relationship for sure, unless you get those boundaries right. How hard did you guys find to get those boundaries right?

I don't remember having a conversation. Honestly, I don't. Maybe we were just being naive. We just didn't think about it. We were so in love. Everything was great. We weren't married yet. You know, like nothing can ever go wrong in this relationship, you know. And I still stand by this. I feel like,

you know, you have decided to spend the rest of your life with someone, right? And then in business, people say, surround yourself with great people. Who better than the person that you have said, I'm going to spend the rest of my life with you. I'm going to stick by you through thick and thin. I'm going to tell you when you're being a dick, you know, but I'm also going to support you. I'm going to be honest. I just feel like I feel yes, you're right. There needs to be boundaries, but they are the best person.

We didn't really discuss specific boundaries, but there are a few things. Separate parts of the business, I guess, creative, the running of the business. His office is on one side of the building and mine's on the other. I mean, I think that probably helps. I can go a whole day and not see him. But I think the big thing that I tell people who work together is that, and I don't know whether we plan this or whether it just happened and it worked, right. But every morning and every afternoon, we go

for a walk. 20-minute walk, no phones, it's just the two of us. And sometimes we don't talk about work, but most of the time we do. In the morning, it's like, what have you got on today? And we just talk about what we've got on, how big's your day. And then there might be some things that I want his advice on. Some things I don't, but he tells me anyway. But we talk it through, right? And then we go to work. And in the evening, it's like, how was your day? What happened today?

And then that can be times when I'm screaming at him because I think he did something. And I'm sure in our neighborhood, people think those Clarksons are going to get a divorce tomorrow. But we've never been shy on expressing our feelings. And sometimes we're in a meeting in head office and someone's new. And then I'm just telling Bill, I think it's a shitty idea or crap idea. What are you thinking? That won't work. Or vice versa. And then you can see the person just falling in the chair.

It's just like normal, you know, but it's not personal. So we have those discussions, but we also don't make it personal. But that wasn't a business decision. That's just who my husband is. And I learned how to be like that. Like, he will never take it too far. He will say, for example, it really bugs me that you keep wearing your shoes on the white rug in the house like he's a clean freak. Please stop doing that, you know, but he will never say you got a mark on there. And I'm

basically, you know, he won't go back and you've been doing it for so many, it's so long and blah, blah, blah, like, and because he is like that, I noticed that I was being a bit of the opposite. This is years and years ago. And so I've learned from him. That's a really nice way to be. And if you want to talk about something, you wait for the right time. Like if, for example, he had said something to me in a meeting and I didn't like it, I'll wait till we're at home, I'll wait till we're really relaxed and say, Hey, it really upsets

me when you said that in that meeting. And it doesn't, I'm going to get emotional. What are you doing to me Gus? And I know you didn't mean it, but this is how it makes me feel. I really don't want you to do that. And he'll go, Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to do that. That's sort of how we treat it. Most of the time, yes, of course, most of the time, we are human, authentic and real is great. I'd keep telling people we're throwing away perfect and we're going with human. That'll do me nicely. Surround yourself with your village and let's go from there. You can't go wrong.

So you mentioned a little bit earlier about, you know, I had my own factory, then my factory in China or that sort of stuff. So at some stage, it went from, you're being creative, Bill's building the business, you've got factory now and you think, okay, I need to, I'm going on a bigger grander scale. Was that exciting? Was that nerve wracking? Was it a combination of that? And what age are you at this stage? I think, well, I didn't start my business till I was 25. So I must like the big growth must have been 30 to 35.

And I do know that we took the opportunity when they had the global financial crisis, the GFC, to really grow our business because we just had all these opportunities, like big brands at the time, like Country Road, they were slowing down their store rollout and we were getting offered like corner stores that they would never have given this really small company that, oh my God, all they were selling was active with and only women's, how could they make money out of that at the time? So it gave us opportunities.

We did a really big growth spurt then. I mean, but Bill was building the stores with my brother-in-law, you know, this is it, we're a family business, right? And they were doing that for like 10 years. My mother was doing the payroll, you know, like it was just a real family business. Was it scary when you've got that amount of support around you and a really solid team, because we've always had a really solid team and built friendships with people who don't work with us anymore that have moved to different countries

and built really big, you know, Louis Vuitton and stuff like that. They're still friends of ours because when you're in the trenches together, it really builds something that you cannot replace. So I'm sure I was nervous. I'm sure we all were nervous, but we never spent money we didn't have. And I feel like that's the key.

There's always in my mantra that, and Bill's, that you cannot be creative and build a brand that you love and do it the way you want to if you're having to meet a debt. Money problems, just close all that down and you start doing things for the wrong reasons. So we only grew, and maybe that's why we did it so slowly, is we only grew at a rate that we had the money to finance it, even when we took on our partners. So, and don't ask me the year, because I won't be able to tell you the year,

you'll have to look it up Gus. I will. I'm sure we can find all that information, but I'm not really that interested. I'm more interested in you and Bill sort of sitting there one night and going, we're going to go and get a factory in China. And that's going to mean that we're going to get all these extra bits of kit, which means we can get more stores. That's what I'm fascinated by, just two people just having a crack. And that's what I love about Aussies in particular is people with good ideas, not just hanging around actually actioning them. Yeah, I think that's interesting what you said there,

because during that time, one of the things I remember the most is that people would say, why don't you open a store? And I'd go, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Maybe we should open a store. Oh, the store in Brisbane is great. And someone says you should open on the Gold Coast. Oh, that sounds like a good idea. It was almost like my customers were feeding us. Like I call myself like an accidental entrepreneur. That is me. Like I'm just like, it just happened, you know, and we just were filling the need, like the demand was coming. And then we just met it. The demand

was coming. And then we just met it even like the factory. So I had, we sold our house, we, we had bought this colonial house that we were sitting on the steps of when I was crying about the accounts.

Did you do it up and sell it? Or was it still have holes in the floor?

Seven years to restore it. We sold it seven years and one month, something close to that. Didn't really get to enjoy it. But we bought a factory in the valley, which was probably the most unattractive place to live at the time. I

remember when we bought it, it was an old Iceworks. There was a ghost for sure. For sure there was a ghost.

Friendly ghost like Casper, or was it an evil ghost?

She was friendly at the beginning. But in the end, I sort of told her to go away. But anyway, anyway, that's another story. So yeah, people, I mean, there was people shooting up drugs out the front of it. It was like horrendous. My

family was devastated. We sold this home. And we bought this factory in the middle of the valley, which was the worst suburb in Brisbane. And it needed completely renovating had termites. It was just horrendous. But we renovated it, we put a whole lot of

in there. And we started making our product ourselves in house, distribution center. It was our dream. But we just started getting like, I think we were there for about five years. And then I constantly what I remember is that I constantly had an ad in the paper for seamstresses. Because nobody wanted to sew. I mean, it's like now like nobody wants to work in retail. Nobody like there's these jobs that are just like, going away because everyone has a tertiary

education now. And everybody wants to, you know, be ahead of marketing or you know, like working it like the world changes, right. And nobody wanted to be a seamstress. And at the time, I think the Australian government was actually encouraging people who were in that trade to actually they were giving

them free tertiary studies at TAFE to learn new skills, because they realized. So I was really caught like people think you go to China because you want to save money. I went to China because I couldn't get people to sell my product. And the demand was so big that I just needed more people. And I just couldn't turn it around in time, you know, at the same time, all the the fabric mills in Australia were closing down. And I had a guy in Australia who I bought all my fabric from and we had made a custom fabric for Lorna Jane, which we still use today.

And he just came up to me and said, You know what, my business is going downhill. It's not the future. I can't, you know, I don't know what's going to happen. How about I go to China, and I open a factory for you. So we did that. And Karen, my beautiful lifelong seamstress, trained them all. And we duplicated what we had in Australia in China. And then we could meet the capacity of a growing business. So that really allowed us then to open more stores, because at the time, it was holding

us back. You can't have an empty store thing I've learned in business, like, you're better off having too much stock, they're not enough.

Were you happy with the quality? Initially, did you have to go across and make sure that I mean, Karen's obviously running the show over there. And that's all and you've got complete trust in her, which is awesome to have someone like that. Were you ever concerned about quality? And how long did that take for you to go? You know what, this is the future.

I think, not really, it's not like an overwhelming feeling during that time, I was impressed by how fast we could get things and the capacity that they could make things. But anytime you use any new supplier, or try something new, or even, I mean, it's like baking a cake, sometimes it rises, sometimes it's not so good. Sometimes it's awful. Like, you do have those things, you put all these safety measures in, in place with production. And it's more that you have to have like, some

thing at the end of it, that quality checks everything, so it doesn't get to your customers. But in production, things happen all the time, all the time. So in the beginning, it was good. I think we then had a time when I think some of the logos were falling off, which was traumatic for me, because I'd see people walking around with logos off. And I'd have to say, look, take those back, we'll give you a new pair, you know, like it was just, but I'm glad it happened in the early days, because we perfected it all. So when we had more customers, it wasn't a thing, you know, I would hate to

have people all over Australia with product that wasn't 100%. You know me, I'm an affectionate, right?

Yeah, I can tell. I can tell. You don't want Lorna Jane.

Lorna Jane, Lorna Ayn, or something like that.

In terms of your designing and so forth, is that your brain now still doing that? Or have you got a team that you work together? And how much do you love getting in there with your family, which is slash your staff, and actually coming up with new

ideas and that sort of stuff? And how much do you enjoy that when you start your morning walk with Bill going, today, I've got a design day with my crew? Does that make you happy?

You know what, every day is design day at Lorna Jane. It is like you've got it like that is what sets my heart on fire. Like, I did spend quite a few years where I had like a really solid team and a great head designer. And it was just like I didn't need

to be amongst it. And it's only when through COVID and when things changed, and we had to reassess and do things that I got back in the design room and I realised how much I missed it. And I've been back really back entrenched in there for so long. I think it's a bit annoying for the designers, to be honest, but they put up with me, but I'm still open. Like I feel like I'm a big concept designer. But I also have people in my team who are really techie and they really know everything.

Like if you want to do a triathlon, she's the girl, she's going to put everything in those leggings and get them. And then I have other designers that are more fashionable, some who are great at graphics and doing great t shirts. So we really work as a team, we have our strengths and we have our weaknesses. And we try to fill the gaps in all our weaknesses. So we're a really strong team.

I love that. So when stores like Lululemon, other stores that, I know, take a breath, we breathe through, we breathe through, you should take that as a compliment. That something that you started now has become such a massive industry, the Lululemons of this world, blah, blah, blah. How does that make you truly feel that you were the first, the pioneer?

Well, I wasn't the first to say that. So I heard it. So it was out there before I ever said it. And I'm like, did I? Because it happened so slowly and so organic. And I'm like, did I? You know, like, so before we started saying it, I really looked into it. But I can share with you that Chip Wilson's wife used to wear

Lorna Jane. Because they started 11 years after us, I think it was. No, maybe it was less than that. Don't quote me on that. Maybe it was six years, but they did start after us.

You're the inspiration for her.

Maybe. I mean, maybe she wore other brands as well. Who knows? But she had to wear something because Lululemon didn't exist, right?

Yeah.

But in saying that, like, building this category and having this vision of people wearing activewear everywhere, I don't mind sharing it with other people. I actually don't. Like, of course, like if one of my staff walked into the building in another activewear brand, I'd say, excuse me, get changed. And I would.

Yeah.

I'd actually give them the outfit to put on, you know, I remember someone wearing a Nike t-shirt to a meeting once and they put a badge over it so that I wouldn't notice it. And in the middle of the meeting, I'm like, like, just looking at that badge, like, excuse me, like, what are you doing? Just go and grab a t-shirt.

I just feel like the category wouldn't have grown if it was just me. You know, like, to me, I just want women wearing activewear. Of course, my preference is that she wears Lorna Jane. I don't want to be the biggest activewear brand in the world. I want to be the best. It's just who I am as a person.

You can't be the biggest and the best, in my opinion. So if you want to be the best, then you should be smaller. And I don't want a big head office full of, like, all these layers of management. So that's being bigger. I just want to be better, you know?

So if I want the change to happen in the world that I want, that I saw in the beginning, then I have to let them wear other activewear. Just not people I know.

Yes, fair enough. Yeah, I can understand. We could talk forever, but we've only got a few minutes left. So I wanted just to basically fast forward to the Fast Five, which is the last five questions, which we finish off our podcast with. And can I just say off the top, I've loved spending this 55 minutes so far with you. I really have. It's been wonderful. Okay, favourite quote?

There is no force equal to that of a determined woman. It's my quote.

I'm married to one of those. That's good. I love that.

Favourite holiday destination?

Australia, of course. I have not been overseas since COVID. I think we should spend our money in Australia.

Okay, beautiful. Favourite book? Are you a reader?

So I'm reading a book at the moment. It's always the one I'm reading at the moment. It's called Glossy, and it's the history of Vogue. And did you know that Vogue started in 1892, Vogue magazine?

And it was named after the founder's daughter.

Nice. Good knowledge. Good knowledge. Favourite movie?

Love, actually. I know that's embarrassing, but it's my favourite movie.

It's not. It's not. It's such a good movie. And there's so many moments where you're crying with happiness. And then when he buys that bloody jewellery for that girl, like, come on, mate, you've got to be better than that.

And favourite charity? So Shaun Partners, who support me at Gotcha for Life, as well as this podcast series, give every one of our guests $10,000 to give to your charity of choice. So if you can tell us who that charity is, and also what you think they will do with that 10 grand.

So thank you for that. I really appreciate it. I think you're an incredible human being. Absolutely. This is fantastic. So my charity is Women's Community Shelters.

And what they do is they provide emergency housing and support for women and children in need. So

there is a whole lot of instances where women become homeless, and it's not always the women you expect.

And this group are incredible. They're not just, they don't just give them a place to stay for a few nights. They really help them get back on their feet. And I think

we need that support. And they do an incredible job. So 10k will almost open a shelter, I think it's 20k to actually open a new shelter. So I feel like that will be incredible. So thank you so much. Thank you.

That's fantastic. And Lorna, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure talking to you.

Thank you too. Next time I'm in Sydney, I'll come and see you.

I would love that. Next time in Brizzy, I might pop up and see you as well. And Bill, he sounds like an absolute ripper.

Yeah, he is. He's pretty good. I'll keep him around.

He goes okay. Thanks, Lorna. All the best. Thank you.

Well, what an absolute inspiration. The $10,000 is going to Women Community Shelters, a wonderful cause.

Thank you, Lorna, for your time. I learned so much from you. Coming up next week,

another wonderful guest. We'll look forward to seeing you then.