Hi I'm Gus Walland and this is Not An Overnight Success brought to you by
Shoren Partners Financial Services. This is a podcast where we sit down with
some very successful people from the world of business, entertainment and
sport and chat about their life's journey
and what got them to the position that they're in today.
In today's episode we are chatting with Ian Roberts.
Ian Roberts is known as one of the toughest guys in rugby league.
In 1995 Ian became the first high-profile Australian sports person
to come out publicly as gay. As a result
Ian has faced a lot of hurdles in his life that most of us have never had to
worry about. Times are pretty different 30 years ago
and in this chat we talk about how Ian's sexuality has shaped a lot
of his life's experiences. Plus we delve into his fascinating NRL career
and his move across the pond to play in the super league. He also opens up about
the serious brain injury he has acquired as a result of the game.
Not many people know that Ian has dyslexia and he opens up about how he
learned to read and write in his 30s, his passion for the arts and his life
now acting. Ian Roberts is a multifaceted man and I
just loved having the opportunity to really get to know him. Please note
that we need to add a content warning to this episode
as some of the topics we discuss include sexual assault and drug use.
If that is triggering to any of our listeners we advise that you give this
episode a miss or possibly come back to it at another
time. As for all of these podcasts Sean
partners have generously donated ten thousand dollars
to the charity of the choice of each of our guests. We discuss who gets that
money in this chat. The executive producer of this podcast
is Keisha Pettit with production assistance from Kelly
Stubbs and Brittany Hughes. Let's get into our chat with Ian Roberts.
Ian Roberts thank you so much for being on the podcast. How are you this morning?
I'm wide-eyed. I've had my coffee. I'm good. Good on you mate.
You still look really good. You actually look like you could play.
Maybe not for the full 80 minutes but. Well that's kind of flattering but
trust me it looks to me very deceiving. How is the body?
I'm good. I'm 56 now. I suppose I had more than your average pretty
major injuries when I was playing but I think you have to maintain a certain
level of fitness to maintain a certain level of fitness you
know. I've kind of been lucky that way. I mean
bits and pieces have started to fall apart. I've just had a new replace
apart from that I'm kind of good. What were you like as a kid? I was just a
show-off. Yeah I was. I mean I even going through school I was
always part of the ensemble group at school.
Like so I used to love you know to get up in front of people and show off.
I was never very good on stage but I mean sports kind of a like a bit of a
stage in it in itself. Yeah. You know you have an audience.
So that was kind of yeah it was a show-off. So it was always great to be
able to perform and and have people patch on the back.
Were you good at sport? Was that the thing that sort of
were you a big sort of big fella? Mate I was dyslexic growing up.
So I always really struggled at school with literacy and numeracy and that type
of thing. The truth is I sometimes and then this
used to be quite an embarrassing situation like story for me to talk about
or even to bring up but I you know I went to
Read and Write when I was like 36 when I went to NIDA.
Really? Yeah I mean so I struggled up until that point to Read and Write.
It's something now that I kind of embrace but when people speak about you
know what was your school experience like I hated it. I was one of those kids
particularly you know in primary school that if the teacher
you know had to stand up and read from the book I'd throw a tantrum and get
sent out. I just couldn't read from the book and
that was so humiliating to me and that sense of shame.
You know I came out later in my life but I was always really comfortable but like
always really self-accepting being like same-sex attracted. I never had an
issue with that. My biggest issue of my life growing up was the fact I couldn't
read and write. That was like such a sense of shame and
unfortunately not unfortunately it was just I come from a very working
class family. My mum and dad, my older sister and older brother and I
were 10 pound poms. They came over with the aspect of
hopefully just having like a two-year holiday and they're planning on going
back but we ended up staying and school was really just a substitute
babysitting service for my mum and dad. They're both blue collar workers. My dad
was a foreman in the factory and my mum was
basically a cleaner all her life and I'm not downgrading what they did.
Hard workers. Yeah they're very much hard workers.
Education was never really valued and I will say it's not until my mid-30s that I
realized how much I'd missed out on. I kind of tried to re-educate myself or
educate myself more. I'm not the most articulate person in the world but I
kind of saw the value in education late in life. If I do have one regret
is that I didn't educate myself more as a kid. But very gutsy of you in your
mid-30s to take the big deep breath and go right oh I need to do something.
It was a situation where it was either now or never. I just felt like
I was in this revolving circle of forever making excuses not to be involved with
anything articulate or anything numeracy or anything. I was just like oh my god I
just got bored with it. Well I mean the reason I got back into acting was my car
literally broke down from up the road at an air zik parade from where NIDA is.
This is a true story and I was walking by NIDA to the service station to get my car
like get someone to come and tow the car and I just thought I'll just duck in the
NIDA and see if there's someone there who might want to do a bit of one-on-one
training because I'd like it always been part of the ensemble at school and I'd
always loved theatre and the arts and even while I was playing I was a bit of a nerd
that way a bit of a square head. I met this wonderful guy by the name of Kevin
Jackson and he kind of changed my life. I mean he really took me under his under his wing he
became a bit of a mentor for me. So you know I started training with Kevin one-on-one just
once a week for like an hour every week and when I the first meeting I had with him I told him I
couldn't read he asked me to take away a piece of text and learn it come back and we'll work on the
text and I said to him ah and it was like one of those moments just oh it's now or never I mean
it's just swallowing my breath I just this is really difficult for me because I can't really
read what's on the page I can't really understand what's on the page and he was like it was just
his reaction that really kind of changed my life he was like that was totally fine okay we'll get
it down on tape you go away and learn and that's as easy as it was he's and I when I told him I
couldn't read he said I might sort that out later that's not an issue it was almost a sound normal
it was almost like oh my god it was like it was just such a and that kind of like buoyed me back
into being involved with the arts and acting and that was just uh just his reaction him and there's
another guy there by the name of tony night who was the head of acting they really changed my life
those two men I can't thank them enough it's beautiful yeah it's just it's just a really
nice story just one of those things yeah thank god your car broke down yeah yeah absolutely I
had a shit old corolla yeah yeah lucky you weren't in a flashmobile you would have driven straight
path exactly right mate exactly right so let's go back a little bit so you're growing up at school
you're obviously the shame of not being able to read and write but you're getting through I was
always good at sports sport always got me through I was always you know like I was always good at
footy I was always good at athletics you know I was always a little bit better than average so that
kind of that kind of always helped me now I don't know if I love rugby league it was just uh like I
said I was a show-off it was just a nice way you know the people used to pat you on the back every
time you play and and I think anyone we're all kind of shafts at heart like who doesn't like
getting patted on the back we've all got egos you know I mean it's like yeah I grew up in a very
like I said the very working class we lived in housing commission right up until I was a bit you
know in my late teens just before I started playing for South so it was was that in the South South
South area yeah yeah at first at Maroubra then at South Coogee in the in the housing commissions
there crazy thing is those areas now they're really affluent like they're quite really expensive
but like I mean but they were really working class and downtrodden and my mother thing is my brother
and I who's two years older than me you know at five and seven you would never do this now with
kids yeah we used to we used to go to the beach on a road that was just a thing you know we used
to live kind of across the road from the beach I mean you would never allow that now but that
was just like yeah that was just the way it was back then and did you get along well with your
siblings were you were you a close family yes I mean my younger sister was born out here
a couple years after we got here so I have an older brother older sister and a younger sister
but uh you know I did grow up in an incredibly first and foremost loving family like absolutely
loving family but it was very racist homophobic misogynist there was very much that atmosphere
growing up and I always knew I was same-sex attracted as well and I always knew that I
didn't clash I mean my first memory of that situation there used to be a I'm now talking
1972 and I know it's 1972 because the actual episode of checkers was first aired in 1972
and I sat next to my dad on the lounge and there was two it was the first gay kiss two men kissing
on tv and I sat there next to my dad knowing that I really connected with what was happening
like I didn't see as anything other than oh that's that's kind of where I fit or that's me
my dad's reaction was all those my fucking skin creepy and they had now my dad let me tell you my
dad passed away seven years ago the course of his life the change in my dad was 100% like was you
know it was 180% he went from one extreme to the other he became totally embracing the LGBTIQ plus
community all that stuff but it took him a long long time to get to that point yeah but I mean
that's was just a sign of the times as well then so what about your mum she worked hard obviously
and yeah how big an influence and does she know that you were same-sex attracted my mum like it's
so wonderful now my mum is 81 and she's in poor health but our relationship particularly since my
dad passed away is second and I have the greatest friendship with my mum you know I've become very
close with my mum the conversation we have now I just wish we could have had them 20 years ago and
since my dad's passing she's been much more open and willing to talk yeah my mum was always a quiet
voice growing up yeah my dad was very much at the forefront opinions and what was said in the family
yeah my mum has she's been a cleaner all her life she was really like she really my mum had a really
tough life you know when I first came out to my parents I was about 22 23 my mum had my mum and
dad both reacted very badly but we speak about that moment some of the things she said and how
she regrets it now but I looking through my lens you have to accept him it took me a long time
to be able to get to that point I was about 22 when I came out to my family I came out publicly
a few years later I think a lot of people their expectations and everyone's coming out experience
is very different I just really believe you have to be tolerant of the people you're telling because
this is big news to them this is life-changing news and you're hitting with your potential and
I know I was I was hitting them with all this news my mum and dad I didn't realise had no idea
that I was gay I always thought that they kind of knew I was gay she thought this was my just I
thought this was just a final step yeah but it took them by like a hammer between the eyes type
thing it was really I you know I didn't speak to my family for about two or three years but like
what I was going to say is like when people first are brave enough and then safe enough or secure
enough in themselves to come out you know you have to be ready for the adverse a lot of people
now are judgmental over how people react you're hitting there with some pretty big news so this
is life-altering news my mum and dad always you know like to them happiness was it was getting
married at 19 20 having kids at 21 22 and and then getting a mortgage but I mean the first thing my
dad said look all you want to hear you say is that you're not gay and that's good enough for us and
that I remember sitting there I was looking at the tv we were saying that there was a football game
on the tv and I remember being sucked into the tv almost I just think this has got to change this
has got to stop right now and I just said to my dad dad now I'm gay first thing my dad says he
says you play rugby he says you're playing you're forward you're front row you're playing from your
stuff I like like he couldn't there was no there was no crossover just there was no crossover these
two parts of humanity could not there was no crossover but in his world they had never he'd
never had to confront that and you know it was like this re-education you know I say about my
dad we we butted heads a lot I was always really a bit pigheaded because I was always like now I've
told you that you're going to have to deal with this and if you don't then you and I aren't going
to see each other and like if I can't bring my partner around here as my partner you know my
brothers and sisters their partners used to sleep with them when they came over to their to mum
dad's if my partner can't sleep in the same bed as me I ain't coming I mean I was a bit pigheaded
but my dad's his evolution I mean a couple years before marriage equality I'll never forget I
at the table with Daniel my partner and my mum my mum and dad's place and my dad was reading the
paper my dad didn't he wasn't a big talker he was just sitting there reading the paper doing what
he does every it was on the weekend it would have been a saturday sunday and we were talking about
marriage equality and my dad stopped and he turned around he put the paper down and he just said
why shouldn't you be allowed to marry the person you're in love with and then pick the paper up
and and kept reading it was like it doesn't seem like much but to me it was like I was just like
oh my god he gets it you know he actually gets it going back 30 years my dad wouldn't have my
partner in my house he wanted nothing to do with them but they were they were like coated in acid
he wanted nothing to do with them yeah so that's the evolution like and you know my dad often said
you know one of the best things that's ever happened to him in his life is having a gay son
because he got to see the world as it really is all those you know the rose-colored glasses all
that shit came down this is reality and so it's kind of like a nice nice journey yeah your dad got
there it's a it was a fucking long journey yeah absolutely so you come out to the family and I
imagine how stressful that is you've explained how it wasn't an easy yeah transition and chat
you decide to come out to the world and just for people who may not know you you know I
grew up a massive fan of the roosters but you played so hard you were just the toughest player
in the game of rugby league which is the toughest game in the world and you're out there what was
that moment like leading up to it why did you think it was so important to let people know
I and I suppose anyone within the OJB 2iQ plus community well I don't understand what I'm saying
here I just it was just such a burden to to carry around because you keep hiding yourself or that
not hiding yourself but to keep denying yourself and having to deny yourself to to make other
people feel comfortable or to make it just became like really tiring and my mental health was really
affected by it you know like I said I didn't have a good relationship with my family at that time
when I was initially going to come out and I'd made my mind up to come out in 1990 when I left
South in 89 to get a manly because I mean the whole rugby world knew well I felt like they knew
that I was gay because I was never really kind of inverted commas closeted I mean I was always out
on the scene I used to take my my partners to like and I wasn't openly um cuddling and kissing my
partners when I take them to South to do but but I would take my partners like and most of players
knew and reporters here in in Australia were fantastic they were so respectful for me and
I've since spoken to reporters after that and they were I mean I'd asked them you know what
didn't you want to ask me and they were always like yes but we just wanted to let make you
make sure you're comfortable talking about it and so it was that was kind of really sweet I found
all this all out later but I was initially going to come out in 89 when I left South
I mean I even had a conversation with George Piggins in 89 and George pulled me aside training
he said mate you know there's a lot of stories about you you know been on Oxford Street this
that and the other I don't know if you want to hear this but there's a lot of talk about
you being you know nice nice wink wink and blah blah blah and he was like I don't know if you
want to like change your your social manner or what you're doing socially and I was just like
George no just I'm playing good footy and I was I was playing good footy you know just playing
good footy and he was just let me say this I love George Piggins he was saying that as a concerned
inverted commas again father or my figure you know he was just like worried about
what people were saying I was a bit when George was speaking I was a bit like
what do I do I mean I just really don't know what to do do I and that pigheadedness in me is like
no this is I'm not I'm just going to do keep doing what I'm doing I'm playing good footy
anyway so anyway I was going to come out in 89 I was going to come out in 1990 when I left
south to go to manland same year Justin Fashionew comes out in the Premier League over in England
we didn't have any internet then right so I know you can imagine I was following that story I
didn't know he was going to come out prior to that and the the British press was savage to him
they were brutal to him the British fans and that were revolting they really took it bad
it was not well received by any part of the community socially he played for another four
years retired never really like after he came out never really cracked it in the first league in the
first team as well again he retired in 94 and took his own life in 98 yeah it's just a really sad
tragic story yeah and I do remember like when he came out because like I said we had no
internet back then you should have to follow the stories by reading papers or listening to the
radio or seeing what was said on tv and the gay grapevine and the gay news I was following his
story and just the savageness and the extremes he was he was put through it was like really no I
was almost like I'm ready for this like I just don't know if I would Australia be the same and
I'm like I found all this stuff out about the reporters after yeah yeah I don't think the
the Australian press would have treated me the same it's not a regret I had but I do wish I'd
stuck to my guns and come out then but I mean I went to manly once again everyone knew I was
gay yeah the um eagle the mascot the guy that runs around that's yeah I mean eagle the mascot
was my partner Shane I mean everyone knew he was my partner you know like but like everyone knew
he was my partner so like I went on the 94 tour totally open I remember like going on to that
night I actually came out did an advocate magazine which is the American magazine in 94 they just
asked me the question rang me up and I was just yeah okay it didn't really it didn't really like
gather any momentum there was a few articles in gay press here but there's it didn't it gained
no momentum in the wider community in the wider press which I was kind of surprised that was that
simple anyway on the 94 tour I went over there as a gay man Terry who was my roommate Terry is totally
fine like that wasn't an issue Terry and I probably I can say probably had the best tour of any of the
players on that trip I can promise you we had such a fantastic wonderful time Terry and I were
traveling down to London because we're based in Leeds we traveled down to London on the Monday
night have a couple of nights out come we'd come back for training on Wednesday well we had this
wonderful routine it was great and it was a real eye-opener for Terry as well he's a character
yeah he was totally embracing me then 95 when I came back the whole super league thing was happening
there's a lot of misconception people think I came back 95 it was publicly I come out 94 but
that's when it kind of kicked off in the Australian press that I came out and it was like
this thing happened and it was wonderful but I didn't think it would have the the impact that
I don't know why I didn't think it would it would have the impact that it had because I'd always
seen what Justin fashion had been through and up to that point everything for me had been really
really positive the rugby league world seemed to embrace it it was a real learning curve for me as
well it's just like how good this community is and I'm saying that you know this rugby league
community but I'm also saying the greater community and let me just say this I keep saying everyone's
coming experience is very different it wasn't all good I mean I did have some really some off-field
situations that arose that were quite violent situations is that people having a go at you
or you become a bit of a target for billions yeah man and this is what kind of upsets me I mean I
was always big enough and ugly enough to look after myself you know what I mean so I never had that
worry of being I mean I you know I did get set on on the street but what I'm saying is I was always
able to look after myself you know I can only imagine what it must be like for other people
within the LGBTIQ plus community who who aren't capable of that I mean you know like we go back
to the 90s when I came out I mean at the 90s that was a time when gay men were being thrown off the
cliffs around eastern suburbs you know it was eight there was like something like 70 or 80
men murdered gay men murdered and that's kind of the environment I came out in and it was tolerated
there was things like I remember being on Oxford Street at the Exchange Hotel there was tolerated
like cars of groups of guys like going out poof to bashing that was just a part of the lifestyle we
had to live with there used to be like two really big gay parties obviously Mardi Gras party and
and then sleazeball party I don't forget I had to perform at the sleazeball party like in 95
when I said perform I had to just get up and sing a song it was great like but earlier in the day
my then partner Shane who was also the the mascot for Manly for Eagle we'd been uh
we'd been attacked on Oxford Street just down at Hyde Park from Oxford Street when you say attacked
you're walking along minding your own business yeah and people just come up and start shouting
at you and wanting to fight you was a group of boys in the car jumped out we ended up I mean I
could look after myself you know what I mean but it's not the way I remember the reason I'm saying
this because I do remember going out then I had to go to uh to the rehearsals this is in the
afternoon I had to gather rehearsals for the show and I turned out rehearsals a big black eye and on
the night you know it was almost like and for a lot of gay guys that's really sexy but I just
wasn't going for that look you know it was almost like that's kind of the of the world that it was
back then it was almost tolerated like I don't know if anyone around my my vintage in the 50s
you know we all know friends of getting being beaten up we all know friends you know taking
their lives because it because of that situation that's like just recently that Josh Cavalero you
know adelaide soccer player I mean a wonderful 21 years old it's such a wonderful story someone
so young to come out like he's 21 22 it's just so to me it's like it brought tears to my eyes but
that he's in a situation where he feels safe enough to come out now his family must be I mean
I can I don't know but I but what I the interviews I've seen in that his family are really embracing
and accepting and the football world has as well absolutely like it's I've been I've been like
saying this for years why like for a sponsor this is like a really good thing like you know people
always say it'll damage you know your sponsorship this I'm like there was never here in Australia
there was never any money in the whole sponsorship and the whole pink dollar that's what I call it
but you know his story is such a wonderful story like it's such a healthy story but I would also
say you know that Josh is to me and I hate by wrong but his I would also say his story is the
exception not the rule what I mean by that is like you know it's not uncommon to hear of people once
they've come out to the family being thrown out like rejected by the family that is such a common
story within the you know within our community and like his story I think it's such a powerful
story sure is so you come out but you as you're doing that you are playing such good footy like
you're playing for origin you're playing for Australia you decide to go over and play in
England is that because you were a 10 pound pom so you could go over there and not be like an
overseas player so they could get an international quality player I went over to Wigan I played in
the 86 87 season if anyone doesn't know Wigan were the juggernaut yeah Graham Low were just taking
them on there they they really were the juggernaut five competitions were that year I was there we
won four of the competitions did the Pommies love you did you get any because they do sing
from the terraces it was such a great experience and I it was kind of weird because I in the 86
touring game when Wigan played Australia I probably had one of my best games I've ever had
it's something I kind of wish I'd done now because I was asked to play for England because I'm
British born I was eligible I actually went over I didn't go over there as an import I just went
over there as a local yeah the rules were a bit different back there is one of those things given
the opportunity in hindsight now I would have said yes I would have played for England and not
Australia no no I would have gone on to play for Australia because I got nationalized when I in the
94 tour I got nationalized just before that you could have done both yeah so it's just one of
those things it's like oh you know what you would have done if you'd probably had a bit more
knowledge or a bit more confidence in yourself yeah as a fan I'm sort of glad you didn't you
know what I mean oh no like yeah it was playing for your country is such a it's that's at the top
of the list like that and winning a premiership which I never got to do I lost one I was going
to ask you about that you know like you won lots of stuff in England but you know a fine player
in Australia but never never got that a win well we lost the the 95 grand final against Canterbury
and controversy well no not controversy convincingly really they were definitely
the better team but I will say that the worst thing that happened to us that year is we played
Canterbury about six weeks out from the end of the before the semis series and we and we beat
them convincingly by about 40 points or something and I think you know I know for a fact going to
that grand final we just thought that was going to carry through you know we weren't on our game
and they were that come into that with a really good because I think they were placed seventh or
eighth they'd come from eighth position they were in hot form but we just we didn't switch on yeah
yeah we just we were just one of the you know I think we lost two games that year and one of them
was a grand final wow but then the whole super league thing kicked off really I mean he'd been
kicking off that year through 95 uh it really kicked off when we came back from the kangaroo
tour but uh you would have been one of the big ones that super league wanted or the arl wanted
how were those negotiations for you uh it was wonderful like it was just a throwing money at
you yeah well it was just one of the it was that weird experience right at the tail end in my
career I got to see decent money type thing because when I mean well my first year at
south I took home nine thousand dollars in 1986 and I thought that was wonderful I mean I was
a sparky electrician but you're flying yeah but I thought I was I was doing all right you know
I bought a Datsun oh my god you all used yeah it was that was new it was this red Datsun station
where oh my god anyway but blah blah blah but yeah I made nine thousand dollars and I thought
I was doing all right I was making a lot more as electrician I mean the thing is people forget
back in that day talking late 80s I mean we had to train at five thirtieths for south so everyone
could get home from work get changed and then get to training yeah very different very different
makeup like you're telling people now with the concept there's not like crossover people
realizing oh it was totally professional back then and I was like and then I got offered this
$15,000 contract to go to Wigan and play for the off season like just catch I was like this is great
I played the under-23s grand final because that year south we lost the semi to first grade I was
playing first grade but we lost the first major semi or something like that anyway but south
because we had a really young team in 86 if you played three of the last seven games in any of
the grades because it used to be under-23s or reserve grade back then and third grade yeah the
three you could qualify so what south did because the under-23s were going so well at south they
dropped a whole load of the first graders players who were eligible to play for the last three or
four games back back to under-23 so we qualified to play yeah we played penrith in the grand final
we won that and I was on the plane to Wigan the next day but yeah I mean I made 15 grand like 15
grand I thought I was like really flashed so what happened at super league what was the initial
offer what did you sign on for there you know I um because I was a manly player and I stayed with
the ARL I had fully intended to just do the same exam like all the other manly players but I was
once again it was just one of those situations I was in town and I wasn't too far from news limited
I'll just wander in there and I mean literally I wandered in off the street if there's someone
there that they maybe talked to me about what all this stuff all this business is about because that
already at that stage super league had already done that big inverted commerce scoop where they
signed all the camber players at one point that was the big thing it was like this so I just wanted
up there I met Lachlan Murdoch he was just I didn't know Lachlan was you know the son of the boss
he was just Lachlan back then John Rebo was there also yeah and uh Reeves just said oh Robbo we'd
like to have you have you on board mate you know what's it going to take for us to get you here
I thought I said it sounds weird now but I said oh I don't know like a 200 000 was big money back
then right I said oh 250 000 you said oh no no we can do better than that oh wow he said oh if
you're serious and then like he wrote a figure I'm just like I was thinking in my head I do not need
time to think about this but he's like mate just take it away he said mate that offer's good for
whatever I went out to speak to Tungsee Lachlan was like an absolute champion he said oh mate
we'd like to have you but if not maybe further down the track a few years that's kind of how
it happened mate I just went outside to speak to Tungsee Tungsee went back in and asked for a bit
more and they're like yeah if you know that we need you know it'd be great to have someone of
Ian's caliber yeah signed up signed up so he didn't go back to Manly and say look I'm getting
300 or whatever I I did go back to uh to the ARL but I went back there and I didn't go back
hoping for more money I went back to tell them I was I was planning on signing with Super League
okay and then um because I was at Manly Matthew Ridge also signed with Super League we we became
the devil in 95 it was kind of this weird yeah I mean I love Manly but it was a weird 95 season
we went on to make the grand final and I was playing like really good footy after the grand
final the uh the ARL then said that they weren't picking any Super League All-Ireland players for
the Australian tour that's when I got like that's why I got upset because I should have like I just
felt like I absolutely should have been in that too with the way I was playing. Just quickly
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that's S-H-A-W for sure. Shure and Partners Financial Services your partners in building
and preserving wealth. Now let's get back into the episode. So I ended up sitting the next year out
not in protest but because they were in conflict of our agreement the contract which I was you know
I went on to win that court case but uh you know like here's that pigheadedness at me again
coming through I mean they went on and won the grand final and I missed out in the grand final
but uh it's one of those things it's just like um yeah when I originally signed that ARL contract
it was if I was playing good enough I would have been picked to play in a representative foot
teams you can't change the rules halfway through because it doesn't suit your argument
and it's kind I mean I just want that is one of my regrets I wish I hadn't been so pigheaded
and that I you know it would have been nice to have won a grand final but you know
case for us are yeah yeah so for you you're playing good footy you've signed with super league
I'm out as a fan I was like I'm a rooster right so we signed with the AAU so that that you know
you just lock it in and say well that's the right one I got mates of mine who go for the
Broncos I went up and saw games up there New Jersey Superman type badge and I'm like
it's actually quite exciting this thing I don't know how it's going to go what was it like playing
in it did you think super league was going to be the future I don't I don't really know I mean I
was just I was just playing footy you know like it was just like it was this other rival competition
I knew there were rival competitions yet over in the states and that type of thing with the NFL and
competitions seem to be thriving I didn't think you know I'm not the most business-minded person
in the world but I didn't think the Australian population there was enough room for two
competitions I really didn't think that I did actually think that at some point they would
merge and which is ultimately what happened but I mean that was just that was just luck I mean for
me that was I wasn't thinking that because I had any pure evidence that I didn't think that there
could be two ongoing competitions I you know I did it kind of did pan out the way that most people
expected it was going to be a couple of years of two different competitions and then they'd come
back together yeah can I ask a couple of Fanny questions which have just come to my head
favorite player you played with most inspiring coach I had some pretty good coaches Pigo Graham
Lowe Bob Fulton in the national level that's that's all I was going to say I had Beaux at
Manly Beaux I played my best footy under Beaux I also fell in love with Beaux because over on the
94 tour when I was I spoke about when I was coming out I have a great story that and I'll
share with you I've said this a couple of times you might have heard this story before
anytime you got a phone call off Beaux it was not good if you're in it yeah you know I remember
like I got this phone call off Beaux he said Rob I need you to come and talk to me mate and he
Beaux he was up in the penthouse obviously we stayed at the hotel stayed at Leeds yeah yep
and I got off the phone to Terry and I said Terry I think he's gonna drop me and I thought I'd been
playing good footy you know I've been you know I was quite panicked anyway you're going to be
dropped out of the test team into the midweek team yeah and I think I was I was kind of angry
I didn't know what didn't know if I was angry or if I was frustrated whatever so I got up there
into his room and his door was just slightly ajar and he's he's walking up and down right and I'm
thinking so I knocked on the door and he came in Robbo and he's sit down and he's doing the walk
up and down the room and I'm thinking now I'm thinking oh Christ maybe something's happened
at home like he's got some bad news to deliver he says right mate uh I said Beaux what's wrong
mate just stop it you're making me nervous please just tell me he said mate I he says Robbo you know
you and I get along well he's saying you know I don't care now listen I just need to say this is
so this is over on the kangaroo tour right and my partner Shane had come over for the tour and
Shane was staying up the road in the hotel one of the rules that people have to know when you when
you're staying in house with any representative team even at the club teams your partners aren't
allowed to stay with you your girlfriend's wives aren't allowed to stay with you you're
allowed to come and visit but they're not there to stay in the hotel and what would happen is
that like a few days before uh Shane had come up to say g'day and we'd had lunch whatever
two of the managers had seen him anyway so Beaux is like pacing this room I just need to tell you
that before Beaux he said mate I don't know how to say it Robby he says you know I don't care
mate I said uh you're playing good footy and that yes so Beaux mate just spit it out mate please
I'm sweating bullets you know he said mate oh okay he said mate Shane's not allowed to stay
with you in the hotel you know that don't you I said he's not my mate he's staying in a hotel
up the road he's like oh good no not a problem Robby that's all I know dear mate that's exactly
what I said I said I was backing you up mate I'm like what is it it was just one of those moments
like it was just him confronting that moment and I get up he said oh it's all right off you go mate
I'll see you train this afternoon I get up and as I left I just turned around to Beaux and said
thank you Beaux you did not know how much that meant to me mate I'd like I love you mate he put
his big boy pants on yeah he was it took him a while it was just such a really nice like for me
it was just one of those moments it's like oh my god he gets like every this is great this is like
the Australian coach gets it and he's accepting yeah you played with and against so many great
players so who would they be at least give me a list of a handful mate it's always the little
guys that I've always been in all like like tubes and that like tubes is just like no he's as tough
as they come and it just keeps going like he just he just keeps going he's just like he's
little ever ready battery he's like Andy Gregory when I played over in Wigan what a player incredible
player I mean I we we played Wigan which we were playing Warrington and he was playing for Warrington
at the time when I first got over there because over there they're allowed to transfer all the
time they transfer through mid-season the different clubs it's a bit a bit bizarre
we're playing Warrington and anyway he tackled me and he got up and he stomped on my face and
then he clawed like he gouged me and I had these like cuts on me face and he's oh you're effing
Aussie bastard and it's like I'm like who I'm like he's this little nugget diner I'm like who what
what's going on who are you like and the next week he was playing for Wigan like he transferred to
Wigan and he's like get home mate yeah and he was always like yeah but he was such he was and that
was his character all the time he was just so he's another one of those guys I remember Henderson
Gill yeah I loved played with Henderson at Wigan absolute superstar on the field but but an absolute
superstar off the field as well he just he totally took me under his wing when I went to Wigan
and showed me that reggae style of life yeah I love him it's always a small man for me because
the big guys can always look after themselves it's the percentage wise of punishment that they
experience compared to us I mean I keep coming back to twos because twos was always like I was
always in awe of that bloke remember that first game you played against a midweek game against
the Great Britain touring team at Brookie and this little blonde-headed bloke got mad at the match
I did speak to Jack O before I spoke to you and he told me a story that he's heard second hand
which I've only just remembered that there was a person I think yours Manny versus Norse or South
versus Norse and is it bloke actually gave you a little bit of stick and some some sexual you know
called you a you know I don't even like saying the words anymore but the p-word and so forth
and you didn't say a word to him but you hit him in a tackle and I don't think he played
a couple of months I know I was playing this house right yeah I remember he had a few dodgy
ribs after that and yeah did you get a lot of people giving you stick for being gay oh you know
what particularly when I was out you know it was you know like if I'd had red hair it would have
been about red hair you know if I'd been Asian it would have been about that if like players
would pick at you to try and get at you if I'd been like really overweight it would have been
about that you know like if I'd been bald it would have been about that you get what I'm saying
yeah yeah now most of the time 90 percent of the time it was but sometimes you could really
it was really this is some really vicious stuff said you just like oh man that's just not cool
mate like it's not only you know I don't need to hear that but everyone else who heard that
doesn't need to hear that shit you know like that's really just kind of foul in saying that I'm
gonna sound like a hypocrite but even sometimes that has to be said so people realize oh this is
wrong sometimes you need someone to like speak your truth okay and everyone you know people
around you think oh when I hear it like that and so personal and you're really attacking that's
and this is not cool like yeah you know that's what it takes at the moment dad always had those
experiences of his life like the reason my mom and dad stopped going to see me at the footy because
there was so much shit being said about me in the stands you get what I'm saying it's like
and sometimes even though they went embracing the gay community they even at a fundamental
knew it was wrong yeah I mean so that's like oh you've really got to hear this shit and when
you hear I mean like I said I always say my story I don't think my story is that exceptional but I
know you know exceptional inspirational tragic I know stories coming out stories are a thousand
times more inspirational but a thousand times more tragic and that can actually help you get
what I'm saying yeah quicker I'm sad that your mom and dad couldn't watch you play at times because
that was always ignorant people in the crowd but I mean I mean that's the reason my dad said
when he asked me all you want to hear you say is you're not gay and that's good enough for us I'm
like I'll tell you I'll tell you a story Robbo my dad came out to me when I was about 18 but to my
brother found out earlier and he said to my mom when I was only two and my brother was four and
we're living in Tokyo and you know imagine my mom who was totally in love with dad and you know
two boys and living in a foreign land dad was working a big job and he came home and said you
know he was he was somewhere in the world and there was a good-looking man at the bar and there
was a good-looking woman at the bar and he literally had that choice and he went which
way am I going and he went with the guy now I've never said this publicly I never spoke about on
triple m but you know hard for mum and then I found out at 18 or 19 and I just needed to see
dad because I actually got told by a friend of mine's dad and I just had to go and find dad and
ask him all these questions and we did have that unbelievable day where I just went and dad answered
the questions as best he can but when you talk about the Mardi Gras you know he was the first
one when he was bashed and they were in cells and he went through all the aid stuff and somehow
escaped it because he he found him gay so late he wanted to enjoy it you know and he found a partner
and they've been together 40 years now which is unreal but I remember coming home from school
and seeing dad and going oh heard a joke at school today two poofters walk in a bar two poofters do
this all those moments came back to me as I found out that dad was gay and I just apologized and he
went I must admit Angus it was hard to hear that from you but you didn't know any better but now
you do if I ever hear you say those things again that's on you not on anyone else and I think I'm
a better person and that's what I mean yeah I totally so I do know what you mean I totally
understand that much and that's you know like I'm I always feel really I like just proud or
sense of pride saying that my dad said that you know the greatest one of the greatest things
happening was him having a gay son you know which you know if you'd asked him like before he got
married before he you know before he that would have been the worst that was the worst thing that
he would have nightmare yeah yeah but he he died yeah absolutely loving adoring and being proud of
you yeah just understanding that the world's a bigger place than what we think it is you know
I mean yeah well when I think of my dad you know it was illegal in in New South Wales to be gay
so he goes to America and loves his life over there and so forth and he you know he was meant
to die about five years ago he's got asbestos on the lungs and he's just he found this drug that's
kept him alive from America but we had the big chat like everything out with my brother and a
whole lot of my mates who loved my dad Jaco flew in from America we all had this weekend together
and we asked every question and dad gave every answer and then he survived so now we've
it's sort of like it was meant to be just that chat and him to pass into and to remember him but
now we're all living with all dad secrets and stuff it's very emotional but I love him because
he was because there's times when your father leaves the family home you actually as a father
myself I'm just like that's not the right thing to do you know what are you doing dad you know
you made a commitment to mom blah blah blah now I understand that and I realize how brave it is
for him to do what he's done he's learning my always learning yeah I will say we don't
have to North Queensland I mean that was that was the most wonderful time in my life but I
Tim Shades was coaching I was made captain in 1997 that was I mean that was quite huge like I
I went up there as a gay gay man that that was I didn't know what to expect right to North
Queensland because North Queensland does have a bit of a I will use the word redneck but that's
not what I mean they had a pretty a bit more shelter than a bit more old school well put my
well put but you know Tim made me captain of the club which was like really it was quite a big
event you know not just for rugby league but and forget that it was me you know for the LGBTI plus
community to have a like an out player made captain of a club team was really quite big news
and towns were wonderful they were totally totally embracing I mean no yes there was a
there was a couple of awkward situations but that's it life I mean yeah but the majority of my time
spent out there was like I loved it I mean I I chose to go to North Queensland because down
here at the time there was a young boy Aaron Light who was mixed up Aaron was staying with me my
partner but he had been mixed up in a pedophile ring and this all came to light when he came
to live with us he'd been living on the street I knew Aaron I'd known Aaron for a couple of years
I'm telling this story because this is how I ended up at North Queensland we bumped him in the street
he was living on the street and he initially came to stay with me and Shane my then partner
and Kirsty one of our best friends who was living with us just until he got himself together
he ended up staying because after like six months he was going back to school he was training he
was playing playing footy he was running kind of a regular life he didn't have a very good
relationship with his mother and father but we used to make sure that he phoned his parents
at least once a week and I had a relationship with him with his father his father we got along
quite well and his father wasn't quite religious his mother and father but his father never judged
me for being gay and Aaron never judged me for being gay he was always fine with Shane and I
he was going back to school he was going to vaulkler school about six months into him being there
police approached me and told me about Aaron's past he'd been mixed up in a couple of pedophile
rings and they were and our house had been under surveillance and they were now confronting telling
me because they knew he was safe and in a good support and I'd just come out and I just remember
my god this is the worst news of like it doesn't get any worse you know like for me I was the
police wanted Aaron to to lay charges against this group of men that he'd been seen frequently at
places and he'd been checked in numerous times but not in the last six months since he'd been
staying with us he'd been totally away that's why the police approached me they wanted me to
confront Aaron and Aaron had a he did not trace the police he hated the police he'd lived on the
streets for a few years up to that he used to he was stealing cars and that type of thing selling
tape and that and I'm now saying this kid Aaron would have been going to live with us he would
have been 14 I suppose 13 14 beautiful kid I like I love the kid I love him I really you know I made
some bad decisions I told the police that I would have I would talk to Aaron about it they wanted
me to talk to Aaron because they knew that he didn't trust him he trusted you yeah I do wish
this is my biggest regret I do wish that I had not spoken to Aaron about it that I just let
him stay in that safe place and now live the life that he was living continue to live the life of
living what happened was I brought it up with him which is a really that in itself changed our
dynamics as he loved me he like he really respected me and like all the adults he knew like me and
Shane and Kirsty that was his new family yeah so he ended up agreeing to press charges but as soon
as that happened and he was going to the police station day after day and then at times like he
was there all day I was reading some of the reports and that he was reading which were really graphic
I mean like really uncomfortable to read there was a lot of drug use involved the sexual aspect of it
too was really confronting and harrowing Aaron started using again started stealing he started
stealing from us and staying out but his whole life spiraled out of control and the reason I
signed up in North Queensland at that time and I hate to admit this but it is the truth it was just
to get away from Sydney as far as like I just wanted to get away from Sydney yeah I was just
waiting for this story to break about you know this gay rugby league player who's just come out
he's got this young boy living with him he's involved in pedophile it's just
I so wish my time given now I would so do things different I was I was terrified of people so
shame me with a group of men yeah yeah I so wish now that I had been truthful to myself
and just stuck by that kid anyway cut a long story short three days before one of the trials was due
to start Aaron disappeared I didn't give evidence it gets weird of this story because the man that
he was due to give evidence against one of the men Fred Ricks had also sexually abused me as a
as a teenager then this is where it became there was a whole coroner's to the coroner's it was
awful anyway he disappeared then five years later we got a phone call they found Aaron
they'd found Aaron they found his body you know rolled up rolled up in a carpet dead in a ditch
it's terrible and I do like I just it's it's what I mean I I love my time in
in North Queensland but I I so regret now the reasons I the cowardness in me the reason for
doing it I will say that's the most it really is something I've I mean I deal with every day
I like people I mean I I know I mean I at times I know I did the right thing but I also know
push comes to shove because well I had a conversation with it with I think at the
last conversation I spoke to Aaron was on phone I was up preparing for the tri series to play
against New Zealand New South Wales Queensland New Zealand Super League had that tri-series thing
it was a few days before that and the policeman rang me said look we got Aaron he's in at Bondi
we lock him up again he's he's been using anyway he wouldn't speak to anyone but me
you know an authority and I just I forget I at that stage I just said to the policeman please
stop this I'm like I'm trying to like get on with my life as a worst thing I've ever said in my life
but I that's the last time I heard from him three days later he he was due to give evidence he
disappeared he left that police station disappeared yeah but it's uh but it's one like it's yeah that
is just one of those stories it's so exceptional in itself yeah I mean what can I say it's just
I can't say that I can't talk about North Queensland without talking about that either
because it's that was all part parcel of course yeah thank you for sharing that mate that's just
yeah but it's even but like I just yeah it is one of one of those moments it's just like
you know like in the coroner's in question that I had to confront Fred Ricks for like I don't know
if you know how coroner's court is set up but there are sets of any involved groups there's
more than two people asking you questions basically I had five different groups of people asking me
questions and Fred Ricks was alive then and I had had to sit there and listen to this man like it
this man had sexually assaulted me when I was fifth or fourteen who was he how did you know him
he used to when I was playing for mascot he was a well he claimed to be a physiotherapist
it was two weeks before the grand final I was playing D grade and I'd strained a muscle in
my groin a coach just sent me to see this guy he's got this new wonder treatment this water
treatment in pools and that so I went along and what happened touched me it was totally
inappropriate but this is the weird thing I like this Fred Ricks thing this is awful
when he was touching me like because I had a groin strain in my groin and he was touching
me inappropriately let me just like yeah but I was I was not I wish I'd had a bigger voice
did you just freeze yeah I froze yeah like it's just like oh hang on what's going on here I don't
know well is this oh this is is he treating me I don't know but the other thing when I left that
meeting with Fred Ricks that incident all that was going through my mind is how did he know I was gay
I mean how did that was my conflict it was just oh this guy no read be able to read that he knew
I was like I was terrified and I I went back on the third that that might have been the Tuesday
well I went back a few days later for the second treatment and he started doing the same thing but
this time I jumped up and pushed him away and I just I just left right I never ever had anything
to do with Fred Ricks after it I never told I never told anyone because I was always terrified
that somehow he'd work out I was gay like that was my conflict in my head yeah as a teenage boy
and so that was my confusion yeah and then years later when that when Aaron told me about this
Fred Ricks you knew oh my god the alarm bells went off in my head and I was just oh my god I
just know as soon as Aaron told me that name I knew everything Aaron was saying was truthful
because at first the police didn't believe a lot of Aaron's things statements were true
did you tell the police that they were true yeah and I had to confront Fred Ricks at the
coroner's inquest here what was that he was one of the interested terrifying it was this
yeah I don't know it was I felt I don't know how to explain it but you feel such shame and
like I feel dirty like it's hard to and because I knew what happened to Aaron yeah it was just
it's just one of those moments where you're saying oh it's just something I've never been
able to to people always say I did the right thing you patch on the back which is great which
is fine but the truth is I know I didn't do the right thing that moment when I had that phone
call off that policeman saying Aaron's you know we've got Aaron again he's you won't talk to anyone
what I wish I said was listen mate stick him on a plane and send him up here
you'd be fine that's what I should have said I mean I know that I mean I know that's the truth
and I'm not after anyone's sympathy saying oh you know you did the right thing the truth is I
didn't do the right thing but I'm also at a point in my life where I've kind of accepted that too
you know like I was very lucky because Kirstie and Shane my then partner the three of us have
managed to cope with it together it's a sort of really weird situation confronting Fred Ricks
this man who had like having to talk to him in a civil manner like I was in a court court situation
when the rage at times other than I felt with him I felt like I could leap you know jump out
of that seat and strangle like I really felt like it just like oh I could tear this guy apart like
he was this he deserved it this really pathetic human being and just anyway but you know he just
damaged so many people and where's he now he's dead he passed away two years ago you know it's
got a weird I bumped into him having coffee with my sister once not far from here actually in town
that was a few years after the coroner's inquest was about 2007 it went on for like a number of
years so okay what did you do when you saw it I like again like I don't know how I get when
people say they freeze and you'd like you free like I mean quite literally freeze I'm just like
if people would have said that to me like when people have said that to me that they
I never understood what that meant but I totally get how now people can be attacked by animals
and that because they freeze it's just like you can't move just like it's like this other thing
yes did he say hello to you did he walk past you we checked each other with eyes but he was
he was always really vicious and really nasty but made it yeah I mean it's just it's just a sad
situation like wow there's been so much yeah I mean in your life and if people look at Ian
Roberts they go oh he's the first bloke that came out gay he was a tough footballer that would be
what people would think about you that's what I certainly thought about you until I've got to
know you a little bit more and interviewed you over the years but can we talk about love for you
you know who have you born in love with and sort of a question with that notice in terms of
was it hard sometimes to for them to keep it all quiet and to watch you play this tough game but
you know have this relationship with you on the side I've had three long-term relationships
Shane Goodwin who was my first long-term relationship he was uh he was eagle at
manly uh Shane I when I say long-term that wasn't really long-term it was only a couple of years but
we are still best of friends he's still very much in my life he's still very much part of my family
I love Shane then I when I was at uh manly uh Andrew Cowley Andrew and I were together for
again we were still best of friends we were together for six years he came up to North
Queensland with me yeah and now I'm in my current current partner hopefully the first of my life
partner is uh Daniel Daniel Scan uh who really is the brains of this organization
trust me uh he's uh he's uh an educator he's a school teacher he works with the education
department he really is a wonderful dad and I've been here together 15 years yeah it's one like I
have a wonderful relationship with with him and his family my family love him to death yeah I'm
very fortunate I'm very fortunate to find someone who's totally accepting of my kind of bizarre not
bizarre but unusual background yeah can you give some relationship advice to people to
stay great friends with their people their lovers that they break up with because um it's hard
yeah yeah it is I mean you know there was a period there I didn't speak to Shane for probably
six or seven years and Shane's a flight steward for Qantas and I I bumped into him when I was
living over in LA I was going to the airport he was coming out and that's we reconnected we've
been you know it was just one but sometimes you do need time apart like you know like for whatever
reason you know relationships break down but they're still justified relationships
people will say oh you know it was a worse experience in my life but it really isn't
because it it's an experience I mean I yeah there was some some moments that you kind of
wish you could have changed but it's just not meant to be when I said I've been to get with
Daniel for 15 years that's wonderful I mean I I do wear it with a badge on it but it took you know
that 15 years 15 months 15 minutes as long as it's respectful time doesn't justify anything you know
like a couple of relationships I know people who you know have been married for 40 years
for their own health and their own well-being they probably should have ended that relationship
but they've stayed together and I'm not having to go this you know like I don't have children
right so but I get you know why you stay here because of their kids and that you know
sometimes relationships just evolve I met dad at a gay sauna right people say oh I go we
I'm like no we met we're both wearing towels that was my next question yeah were you wearing
a towel yeah definitely yeah I was wearing a towel he was very drunk and we ended up having
a cup of tea then going to monday beach for a swim and I was kind of weird because you know we
were just talking about Aaron and that situation I'd come back from LA for a court case I'd come
back and then they postponed it and I was only supposed to be back for two days and I met Dan
in those two days and I ended up staying for like a month before I had to go back to LA
but I mean you know it's funny how things work out yeah in a weird way I have Aaron to think
you know it sounds a bit bizarre but me you sometimes make you sometimes make up these other
the reasonings behind things oh well you know like everything's woven and threads of life of
course you talk about LA a little bit so let's talk about that acting Los Angeles you know that's your
real passion outside of oh well obviously you know like if I'm being a bit of a square head here
yeah the nerd in me I was always more interested in the ensemble than sport but my reason for not
being involved more heavily at school I mean I was involved I was always involved with the players
going on at school it's because of my dyslexia I was always really terrified given a like a
page full of script it was terrifying it was like it was and I that's the reason I pushed away from
it not pushed away from it but we didn't embrace it because I was terrified of it yeah but yeah
since and the whole thing about meeting Kevin Jackson and Tony Knight from NIDA and I love the
arts yeah a sense of creating and whatever that is that yeah I love it I've been really fortunate
that I've been able to pursue it so tell us about your life in LA and the stuff you've done and the
people you've met and and do you feel alive there I feel alive yeah yeah I loved LA because I mean
the other thing was because I have I have no profile in LA that was great in itself the only
people that knew me were the Aussie tourists like me walking around oh Robert yeah yeah you're a
tough bugger all that yeah but that's kind of nice but the whole experience about being in LA
finding an agent and just doing the rounds over there like because it's such a large industry
there and there's so much to pick from you can literally if you're a bit computer savvy which
I'm not but you know I learned a bit you can be auditioning every day in LA you know like you know
more than once like you can be auditioning two or three times for small productions and that's
kind of what I did that's kind of where I learned my heart like it not not learn my art but learn
the skill because you've got it you've got to be good at auditioning right yeah that's exactly
right mate you've got to you've got to walk in like you know what you're doing and own it and
you're comfortable with it and when you actually get those jobs where you've got your own nailed
that today for me that's the drug in the craft yeah whatever that is that alone is what you do
it for well yeah I was just like oh yeah I knew I know you know but there are those other
situations you know you think oh god that was shit I was terrible I got so missed and then before
you know before you've walked out the building they're ringing you so you've got the guy you
know I mean I don't even know what I just gave you know I don't even know what I just did what
I gave you so I don't know how to reproduce what I just you get what I'm saying you know like I
don't know I mean I'm not successful as an actor I mean I love what I'm doing like I
I often wonder like you talk about Hugh Jackman we're talking like how they go with stuff like
that like when they get the jobs they thought they were that the audition was shit at or if that's
well with him I only spoke to him about it the other day because I said what's the big manly fan
big fan of yours I told him today I was working I met you at the 2000 Olympics yeah right yeah
well he wasn't such a big deal then he was becoming one before Swordfish and then Wolverine came off
the back of that well I said to him the other day because he's just about to go on Broadway
and do the music man which we did at school at Knox in uh in year 10 anyway we're chatting about
it and I said where's the list of like Hollywood stars like when do you get a phone call and he
goes well they they normally go with DiCaprio first and then Brad Pitt and depending now I'm
sort of in that George Clooney sort of he could be a bit old or whatever but I'm sort of probably
third fourth or fifth the phone calls you know if if they say no then I'll get the call he said if
it's a musical he's saying I'm definitely the number one but he said I remember the first time
when he was at Whopper because he didn't do neither he went to Whopper which at the time was like
what's Whopper it's now become a very important part of procedures yeah and he goes well I you
know I did this audition but I never thought I'd get it and I got it and he said oh then I'm trying
to take the pressure off myself in my performance and I'll always get it if I think this is the big
one I'll muck it up and that's even him now with all that experience that's you know she said no
and he just said it better than I could well when he comes back to Sydney I'd love to get you guys
together the thing is he will drill you on manly I know what happened in that semi-final when you
played for us we had those conversations a couple of times in 2000 News Limited had sponsored the
games and they had a whole lot of inverted commas celebrities that they looked after VIPs VIPs
yeah and I got to meet him like a like a few times there I love the guy like yeah well he loves
he loves you too so that'll be an interesting lunch we can have together so you're in LA where
do you see that moving forward for you where's Ian Roberts going to be in the next five to ten
years in terms of acting you being sort of a spokesperson I would say people ask me what I
do now I mean I do a lot of work for the NRL we do uh we run like a theatre sports type program
is that the rookie camps and so yeah I've seen those at the yeah okay so you've seen that with
the yeah so for me I saw like a whole lot of actors talking you know going to a nightclub
and having a fan come up to you and how you handle that with drink and all that stuff well
the scenes are set we have a you know we collectively probably have at least a dozen
scenes depending on what the organization or what the team wants that we're going to perform for we
want to you know you can basically around misogyny bullying homophobia drugs in sport
alcohol yeah and it's you know the actors is for us it's just a theatre sports program we
know where the scene's supposed to go we have a bit of a sculptured scene and dialogue we have
two players or two people who work at the corporation up involved and they're supposed
to negotiate the most positive outcome yeah of where yeah but let me tell you I mean because
it's a safe environment it's not filmed so you know it's okay to get it wrong let me tell you
some people really get it really get it wrong which it still amazes me today but you know like
that's the idea of having running the program it's just like and then then we break it down we talk
about how you potentially you could have navigated that a bit better or yeah I mean that's what I do
when people ask me what I do now I say well kind of you know part of a program for the NRL which
has been great we also patron for pride in sport that's an organization that what they do is they
make sporting bodies I'll use the NRL as an example NRL take on the the pride in sport index
and what they do is then it's a bit anywhere from six to twelve months of negotiating processing how
the NRL can make it a safe environment for the lgbtq plus community working within that community
for supporters and the game itself there's still a lot of work to be done in that space let me tell
you you would think that would be a no-brainer for the clubs to pick it up and take it but at
the moment there's only been three clubs have picked it up are you surprised robo that you're
still the I mean you're the only player that's literally come out whereas women's sport women
are all over women's sport are all over in fact it's a you know women's sport is growing at such
a level cricket is my first love cricket is the number one area of development is in women's game
and juniors girls joining and so forth and inclusion there's so many openly gay players
in the women's game why are you still the only one really you know when you think about women's
sports you know women's sports as particularly with the rugby sports and the afl now women's
you know like for a lot of time women weren't considered it wasn't a thing to have those
sports so women have been up against it for a lot longer than in the lgbtq plus community even what
i mean by that is like they've really had to fight to do in their place to get where they are now so
there's you know they're confronting the situation and that's why you know that's why
it doesn't surprise me that they're so embracing of a trans and lesbian women who it's just part
of their sport like they've been fighting this fight for a lot longer that doesn't surprise me
i mean i i'm the only guy apart from josh now he's just come out with the soccer but no one
else in rugby league yeah and all those years afl you know the rugby union i mean there's been a
few players that come out after they're retired which is a great thing as well like people
shouldn't discredit that as well like however you perceive my story i would never advise anyone to
come out unless they feel safe and they feel secure in in their situation because once you
come out there's no going back in you know i mean like and you're coming out for the rest of your
life i mean i still come out today like like what i mean by that is i still have to even just holding
my partner's hand walking in the street i still every occasion you get somebody to take a second
look you know i mean just like yeah you get what i mean by that yeah so it's uh and i'm totally
comfortable with that but i mean i'm very lucky but what i mean by that people should only come
out when they're real they feel like they're in a really safe environment when they're supported
and they have allies that's what's so important about allies you know i yeah so you spoke about
fashion new and you spoke about josh those things happen 30 years apart so you know it shows that
it's going in the right direction it should give confidence to players that are out there to to
come out once again i keep saying you know that players they need to be safe and secure in
themselves i mean people keep saying like you can't have 30 years ago why haven't people done it more
because obviously you know men i'm talking men here like don't feel safe in doing it and i know
they're a gay man playing rabie league rabie union afl do they come to you and talk secretly
a couple times in my past have i had conversations with players and my advice to them then was kind
of the same thing it might you need to feel safe you need to feel confident you need to feel like
you support it i'm glad they're having chats to you at least yeah i mean i wish i could do more
mate but i mean in the 30 years since i came out i've had that conversation with three different
three different men right and that's not all rugby league as well but i'm just saying it's
at the nrl the afl and the aru that they should be championing this and we shouldn't wait you know
it shouldn't be and i thought it was like you're saying josh i think it's such a wonderful story
but why we have to wait for someone to come out before we embrace it again yeah well let's
celebrate it now let's let the nrl do a campaign about you know rainbow round or you know the aru
do a rainbow round and like embrace that community make them know that you are so welcome here you
are so a part of us it's just like you know we are a part of you like i'm like why are you waiting
for someone to come out why do you know any embrace it when someone comes out you get what
i'm saying it's almost like it's weird it's like why do you we need you to be to be proactive in
this space that's what marty got in front of the curve yeah exactly mate be in front of the
curve you know it's kind of really frustrating me because i've i've been living that now for
like 30 years i'm just like i just don't get how this hasn't even sponsors like adidas and puma
and that like why i mean i can see if i can hear the frustration in your voice it does my head
i mean that's not my world either like it you know i but i do i really believe in those campaigns
where the nrl could have an online campaign the afl could have an online campaign about support
and and and not only around like mardi gras time because i mean it's wonderful that the nrl have
a flight in the mardi gras yeah wonderful i'm only i think it's great but that's doesn't stop
that like you know you get what i'm saying like don't just make that the token thing that's not
the that's not the tick yeah yeah tick for that year okay we've filled that we've ticked that
yeah let's do more yeah robo i've taken a lot of your time up but there's just so much to talk
about i do want to talk about your brain and then i want to sort of finish the podcast with a bit
of fun and also we've got ten thousand dollars from shaw and partners for one of your many
charities that you support but one of my old colleagues and a bloke that i think was your
roomie made me in 1990 mark gaia yeah love him mg i love him too love him what you see is what
you get absolutely that's the way you want everyone right correct and he went down to
the brain bank in melbourne and he said look i don't need all the medical mumbo jumbo just
give me a number out of 10 for how my brain is and you know it's a bit teary to talk about but
he said the doctor said six out of 10 and he said i'm 40 at the time 48 he said oh how can i make
this any better like am i going to go down the down the tubes here what's happening with your
brain of the same study okay same thing for me six or seven you know that's kind of the you know
where am i at i kind of ask those same questions which is scary you know like i mean and i'm going
to use this word i'm going to say brain damage like that but you know there's a whole thing
about trauma you know like it's it's always brain damage every time you get concussed and
it's a form of brain damage so i say that so people are aware how significant it is you know
when you know like when i grew up you get concussion it was almost like a badge of
honours like oh come on yeah they get someone to run on and they hit you in the back of the
head with a wet sponge oh you'll be good and off you go you know oh yep and i mean i had a probably
half a dozen times in my uh senior playing career while i was knocked completely out
i remember one i'm laughing yeah i shouldn't be laughing about it but it was we i was playing
for south we played canterbury i got ka i got elbowed paul dunn actually uh dunny i love you
that we are friends we are friends anyway um when i came to in the in the change rooms
my dad was there thankfully because i couldn't remember where i'd parked the car we had to come
back the next day and walk around the streets of belmore there i looked for my car i was still
but i i had a couple of those incidents i've been i was part of that study with the mg but there is
i will say with being part of those those studies that they did educate me a little bit about
cognitive training and that type of thing like brain training and that type of thing and you
can't you can stop it or reverse it by concentrating on exercises for your brain yeah and focusing on
that i mean i now i feel like they helped me so that's a good thing yeah that in itself is a good
thing i mean i i first started noticing this one of the reasons i came back from la this is one of
the reasons i came back from la that i just wasn't as sharp and i was always pretty good uh by this
point and they're talking like five years five or six years into i stay there i was always pretty
good at the auditions like sight reading i got to be quite sharp at that because i trained myself
but i just the last couple of years i was there i was always just like why am i can't i get this
in what when it go in like i just can't get i wasn't landing the auditions and then i had a
couple of absent lost time situations happens where it happened twice i was driving a car then
i was at home it was almost like i'd lost this time it's like it was always like being in a
dream and not being in a dream it's hard to explain and another time within the unit my own house i
was in the kitchen then i was lying on the bed and i'd lost about half an hour that kind of sparked
my i just thought something was a bit and like i said i've been thinking for a while then i just
wasn't as sharp in my auditions i was just remembering stuff and that's kind of when i
when i came back i got involved in those studies uh the whole thing about the ct stuff and will
you give your brain to the bank yeah i'm already you signed off on that pledged on that yeah yeah
do you blame anyone do you go that's just part of the the game you knew it was tough like what's
your stance on that i think now we need to educate players about it they need to be well informed
i think what i said before about brain damage and like yeah people need to be uh made aware
particularly in kids sport that like concussion is brain damage if you say brain damage it seems so
much worse then that's actually what it is it's scarring it gets every time you get a concussion
is a scar form of scarring on the brain you know i have only learned it since but i will say
cognitive training has been really good for me i mean i would absolutely recommend anyone to do
that type of thing would you do things differently robo given what you know now we had a bit of a
conversation before him i just i've just had a knee replacement i've had 15 years of a major
spinal surgery i've had surgery on my shoulders yeah you know i sometimes think
would i play footy knowing what uh my effects now and i just
just the decision's out the jury is out on that one yeah you know like i just i miss i mean i
haven't been able to run like physically run you know like the reason i got my my knee replaced
is i was just i just wanted to be able the one thing the uh the doc asked me is you know what
do you hope to gain from this knee replacement i said i just want to be able to go to the park
and frisbee around and move to catch it you know the simplest that doesn't sound like much is it
like i haven't been able to do that you're like i can't like i i was walking around like this
old like a stumbling around and plus with acting as well like it kind of limits you when you can't
i literally can't run and um it's very limiting i often think you know like when i was it sounds
earning me nine thousand dollars i was an electrician and i was earning a lot more as an electrician
i mean yeah i can see there would have been another life but i mean i've been so grateful
i've also been in a really fortunate position by being honest and talking about my life and
being gay and you know like being gay is the best thing you ever happen to make like i mean that
seriously like i mean i won the lotto there so you know like i'm really really appreciative of
my situation having been able to help people just in and of itself i haven't had to do anything
except just be just to own that truth and yeah but i mean injury wise oh yeah i often think oh god i
wish i never played because it's just little things now like this like i said mate just going
around in front of frisbee around it doesn't seem like much but just not being able to swim
properly and stuff like that because i can't get my arms over my shoulders properly stuff like that
just like i guess it is all football related but maybe it's not maybe it's just getting old and
maybe that's just part of it's probably a bit of a combo out of the process the thing was you played
the game so bloody hard mg says that too you know but everyone didn't that's just the way it was
played back then you know like i was kind of an mj you know we kind of came through together he's
probably younger than me but we came through that that era you know my first game i played against
craig young i was playing with south i was like 20 and craig young was like my idol like he was
like he's my idol and um south used to i mean i'm talking about the days when we used to have a call
a call like if henry was called it meant that the all in was on in the first in the scrum like craig
common used to say oh henry and that and i was like this isn't my first game on 20 years old up
against craig young the second scrum was saying tugger walked through the middle of the scrum
getting rid of henry i was like no no no no no no this is god knows no way in the world i'm like
but that's i came through in i stepped but did you have to hit did you have to hit it we had we had
a bullet like i got holes punched in me you know i mean but i mean that was that that south that was
just the way the game when i went over to wig and i played against les boyd i mean les boyd was such
a ferocious player but he was really old school and was still playing old school so i kind of
caught the tail end of that old school style of play which was brutalized and it was wrong like i
look back now and i totally get why all the headshots and all that now and how important it is
that we cut all that shit out of the game and that was a what that was i mean so i was kind of an mg
would probably say the same thing i was kind of fortunate i saw that really the progress of you
know of the of the wayne pierce is coming in and changing that style of play to the real athletic
and i was kind of one of those players as well that was as much leaner and lankier but it was
almost a wide running forward like frat roa people often think i don't know they were good old days
but you know they were definitely the old days i remember maddie john said you know when tommy
radonikis passed away you know everyone started talking about the good old days and then maddie
said you know what you think about it he was a really good player you played 30 odd times for
australia 20 odd times for new south wales he was a brilliant player but everyone just remembers
cattle dock yep sometimes i got to remember how many good footballers were out there playing
amongst the bar the bar fights you know and that's what you had to deal with it's like clive churchill
my like i so i didn't realize this i mean the most tries clive churchill scored in a year was 13
you know i mean that's an average yeah he was a dead set 25 you know he was a dead set superstar
it was just a very different game back then you know like when i grew up i was we were south
supporters we'd go along the red fur and sit behind the post that was our thing with
and you know macker and all that were playing and so when you played for souths initially that was
a huge thing for your family yeah they were like they were 10 foot tall it was like i was playing
for seattle like you know they were at every game for like a number of years are you a south fan now
or a manly fan or a wigan fan or i'm kind of a like i know it sounds like bizarre but i am south
manly north coins land like i kind of like you're gonna get a win most i kind of love all my old
times you know i mean like i have such a yeah i had such a wonderful experience in each and every
one of them good on you robo has been wonderful talking to you let's get to the fun finish which
is the the fast five favorite quote i don't know if you can see it oh you got a tat a life lived in
fear is a life half lived yeah i like that yeah well you loved it so much you put it on your body
yeah yeah yeah good on your brother favorite holiday destination oh that's a tricky one
we went to new guinea twice uh through i went to new guinea shows three times when i was playing
new guinea has some of the most extraordinary places i would say that diving lay in that type
of thing was exceptional our favorite book i'm an isaac ismanoff sci-fi bit of a fan okay so
like i've read read loads of his um yeah this is going to sound really bizarre what i've just
said isaac gives off first book ever read and it means a lot to me because i really struggled to
read it with charlotte's web as a kid yeah that i would say only because i got to the end of it
it took me a long time to read it because i was like i couldn't like i couldn't read my properly
i will say that was the most empowering book i'm not not because not because of the content it
was great but just the fact that i got through it you had a win you finished it yeah yeah good on
you mate favorite movie i always say young frankenstein yeah and your favorite charity
because shaw and partners have got ten thousand dollars for all our guests in that's such a one
on the podcast that's one that's thank you very much that's really sweet and generous my uh
the charity i would would be cutopia it's a it's a game museum that we're trying to get up and
running now uh here in sydney first in australia we've well progressed now we're looking for a
venue a location space city council have been great with it so far provide i mean and we will
get non yeah not for finding profit but apart from that if that does fall through i would always
say pretty well children's hospital yeah thank you so much for just being so honest and lovely
and beautiful this morning you know let's look forward to having a beer with you one day so easy
i really enjoyed that thanks godly robert that was ian roberts and what i loved about that chat was i
suppose for the first time ever i spoke about my situation and my father and the fact that
he left the family home because he realized he was gay as well so this is something and i wanted to
discuss for many many years and it just sort of came out i felt safe enough in ian's company
just to share that so i'm hoping to delve into that a little bit more and to talk about it in
the months ahead coming up next on not an overnight success is tim costello tim costello was chief
executive officer and chief advocate of world vision australia he worked as a lawyer and served
as mayor of st kilda a big thank you to shaw and partners financial services who have generously
supported this podcast and also donated ten thousand dollars to the charity of choice of
each of our guests to thank them for their time shaw and partners are an australian investment
and wealth management firm who manage over 28 billion dollars of assets under advice with
seven offices around australia shaw and partners act for and on behalf of individuals institutions
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