How are you, man?
This is so strange because they actually have a list of questions.
I was going to say, you haven't taken notes.
Well, I guess we could ramble and talk about a lot of cricket games.
Hi, it's Gus Walland here and welcome to Not An Overnight Success.
This is the first episode of a podcast series that I'm very, very proud to bring to you.
And I couldn't have a first episode without it being my best friend in the whole world
and someone that I think everyone in the world actually knows and love.
And of course, that is Hugh Jackman.
We couldn't have done this podcast series without our mates at Shore & Partners Financial Services,
Earl Evans, Alan Zion, and of course, Brittany Hughes.
In this podcast series, we sit down with some very successful people from the world of business,
entertainment and sport and we chat to them about their life's journey
and how they became the success that they are today.
OK, episode one, here we go.
We are joined by my best mate, Hugh Jackman, a man that probably doesn't need much introduction.
He's an Australian actor, singer, multi-instrumentalist, dancer, producer.
You may have seen him in the odd film The Wolverine, Swordfish, The Greatest Showman,
La Miserables, which I thought was awesome, Australia, X-Men, just to name a few.
He's won a Golden Globe Award, an Emmy, a Tony and even a Grammy Award.
But still, somehow, he maintains that persona of being one of the most humble and loved Australians in the world.
And that is absolutely true.
Hugh's success, however, did not come overnight.
I met Jacko when I was five. Yep, that's right.
I called him Jacko. I've never called him Hugh.
We were in kindergarten together and he's been my best mate for 48 years.
He's the godfather of my child. I'm the godfather of his children.
I was the best man at his wedding and I thought I knew everything about him
until we sat down to do this interview where I learnt so much more that was new to me.
The biggest takeaway from this chat with Jacko, I suppose, was to trust your instincts,
something that he has always done despite what the people around him advised.
We talk about everything from our childhoods, his mum leaving, his dad's religious influence
and how he entered into the acting world, his life in the limelight and who gets movie roles ahead of him.
Shaw and Partners Financial Services have generously donated $10,000 to each guest charity of choice
that feature on this podcast. We discuss who gets that money during the chat.
The executive producer of this podcast is Keisha Pettit.
We couldn't have done it without our great mate, Kelly Stubbs.
Let's get into the first episode of Not An Overnight Success. Here's Hugh Jackman.
Big fella, thank you and welcome to the podcast. It's lovely to talk to you, brother.
You too. He's awesome.
Now, Jacko, what were you like as a kid?
Give me an age because I think I changed quite a lot. Give me an age.
OK, so I met you at five and like all five year olds, we were pretty sort of happy go lucky.
I think we were sort of happy kids. We were in a nice area, a nice school.
And I suppose things changed for you, you know, a few years later than that.
Yeah, I think I was very enthusiastic, always wanting to do a lot.
Being the youngest of five kids and with my older brothers and sisters always doing stuff
I wasn't allowed to do, I was like chomping at the bit, like I felt like I was being held back.
I remember being at Aberfeldy on Eastern Road, like the preschool.
And they said you can go full day and not half day.
I can still remember that. It's actually my first memory.
That's how excited I was. Yeah, full day.
And I want to catch the bus to school and I want to go to school.
Didn't take me that long to work out. That was not what I wanted.
Super enthusiastic, pretty happy and scared.
I was a beautiful kid, like scared of the dark, scared of heights, scared of pain, scared.
I was scared of a lot. Boogie man. Yeah, quite scared.
I don't remember you that way at all.
You weren't there when I quite famously was the first in our group to do the rock climbing.
And I was terrified of rock climbing.
With this was that we went to Camp Knox.
So for those who don't know, we had like an outdoor training camp thing at the school.
You had to go to it once a year or something.
So I went to do that and I was the first to go up.
And I remember going first because I was really scared about it.
My brother told me I would have to do it. I was like halfway up I froze.
I just remember just gripping and I just couldn't get any more.
And the guys like, better come down.
I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to make it.
I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it.
And I can hear the giggles from down below my no, no, no.
And then finally, of course, I had to get lower down again.
The giggles were getting louder and I started to cry.
And I remember quite clearly saying, yeah, well, you just wait till you try this really hard.
You just wait. And then one by one, they just all in my group, not like not a problem,
literally just like nothing.
And I said to the guys, you have to let me do it again.
I got to go back to the group because I'm sorry we're out of time.
The rope comes down, he packs up the rope, help me pack up the rope.
But I'm like, oh, and I think we're in fifth grade or something like that.
But I do remember getting quite a lot of heckling all through the next year.
Stewart's clothes, you ready to destroy it?
Kids can be brutal.
I don't think you would have been one of those brutal, heckling friends, though.
No, absolutely. I wouldn't have been because I remember being in another group
and doing it and struggling, but I did get there in the end.
But I do remember how hard that was and how scary that was.
But that didn't affect you too much, though, because that was fifth grade,
because we'd gone from Pimble Public School to Knox.
And that was a big thing for us, a big change of school.
We went from sort of the big fish to the little one to a certain degree.
And a lot of blokes had been there for a long time.
You know, they'd been there since Kindy.
So we were the new kids on the block.
And you ended up being one of the leaders in year six.
You ended up captaining Burns House.
You were a leader pretty much within a year of joining Knox Prep.
I don't remember it being hard at all.
I remember chomping at the bit to go.
I think, again, because all my brothers and sisters were now catching the bus
and they were wearing the tie and the boater and all those things.
And I wanted to do that.
I want to do that. I want that.
And, you know, you're my best friend.
It was you and me.
It wasn't like we were the only new ones.
I don't know why fifth grade is a grade where you can send your kid to a private school.
Like, it doesn't matter.
First four years with the Senator, the free one and then fifth grade.
But I just remember chomping the bit.
I remember us leaving, holding hands together.
Let's talk about that speech you made to the school one day to Burns House.
Oh, no one had a mobile phone back then.
That's just a career end.
Like that's you get cancer before you get into sixth grade.
What happened? I just.
So there was a point score, like an ongoing point score between the houses.
And I don't know what the event was.
Maybe it was the track and field or the swimming or something.
But we'd come last and we were we'd had a dramatic drop or something like that.
And for some reason, I thought it'd be a good idea during our speech.
So the house captains got to do a speech once a week.
I just sort of a good idea to get out there and just look, not say anything.
Just shake my head in disgust and to say,
you can't remember what I said, but it was something like this is not even worth
talking about. This is pathetic.
And I turned my back and I went to sit down and that's my but I remember
people starting to giggle and I think I misjudged that one.
But then I sort of went on, I doubled down, I went to a big speech.
And this is that it's not what Burns House is about.
We're about full commitment around this.
And there's kids in kindergarten in front of it.
It's kind of it's five through twelve.
And the little kindergarten kids are like, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
And then up to the sixth graders who are like, you're a complete knob.
You're not an actual leader.
Like you're just being placed there. We're 11 years old.
And I do remember you going, Jack, what was that about?
And no one has ever really forgotten.
That was a moment for sure.
And I did have a quiet word to you that perhaps you were taking it
all a bit too seriously.
But, you know, it's one little blip, big fella, on a lot of stuff
that was happening for you at the time.
And I suppose we didn't all quite realise that your mum had left the family home
when you were about eight.
And, you know, there was a lot of pressure on you being the youngster.
And there's a lot going on in your life then.
What do you remember of your mum leaving?
I remember the morning very, very well.
I guess it's one of those things that you must pick up.
People often said to me things like, well, I could hear them saying,
oh, he's only eight, he's too young.
And I remember going, what are you talking about?
I remember thinking, what are you talking about?
I don't know exactly what's going on.
And like, even though, of course, I didn't really know exactly.
But I remember thinking, don't patronise me.
I know what's going on.
And I remember mum in, she had a towel around her head
and a towel around her body as she was saying goodbye to us.
The actual memory of that is fairly normal.
Like we lined up and we're going up to school, catching the bus.
I was walking, I was at Kimball Public.
And yet somehow that memory stayed in there.
So I must have picked that up.
I must have sensed it.
Or maybe when I got home, trying to work out with something different,
because there was the note from actually there wasn't.
I didn't see the note for dad got home.
So when I got home that day, there was a few hours where I was.
She was always there.
Of course, this day she wasn't.
She'd gone to England.
Her mum was not well, and she'd just gone.
And I think we all thought, even mum included, that she was going to come back.
But that has never happened.
So I remember being really scared, all of a sudden scared in the house
because I never really experienced that.
And I don't know if they ever told you this, but really for the next
till I was 15, till we did survival and had to be in the bush,
I'm always scared going into the house on my own and after that day.
So I wouldn't most of the time when we're at Murdoch Street.
So I'm still at Kimball Public.
Just wait outside.
I just wait outside in the backyard till someone got home
because I was really frightened and I was real.
Also, the only thing I remember was being embarrassed.
I know it's a weird thing to say, but I remember people whispering
because it was an unusual thing for a mother to leave the home.
And I remember sort of looking and I.
Of course, I was really sad that she was gone, but I also remember going,
stop people, stop talking about me, you know, that thing at school
where you just don't want to stand out.
It was horrible, but I never thought it would last that long.
I never thought it would be forever.
I thought she would come back.
I remember going down a couple of years later to Manly with you.
I remember we were playing cricket behind some hotel
and your mum was actually back in Australia.
I think you were thinking very much that she's back and dad
and mum are going to get back together again
and we're going to get back to normal.
Yeah, I remember that.
We were down in Manly because mum would come back and it was weird.
We would go to Manly to be with her.
So we stayed at the Epsom Hotel there for two or three weeks in January.
So I went holiday in Sydney, which was sort of strange.
But I actually really loved that time being with her
and with all of us there together.
And when I was 12, they announced they were going to reconcile
with that didn't last very long.
It actually never happened.
It was like I think dad went back.
He came back alone.
So then that never that was just a couple of weak thing.
And that's when I remember being really upset
I remember being angry.
You know, I was, you know, I mean, I was never really in trouble a lot,
but I was in trouble quite a lot in year seven around that time.
I remember telling a teacher that often things you just didn't do in seven.
I was just looking for something to be angry about.
That was really hard.
Well, they gave you hope, didn't they?
And then they took it away.
And that's the hardest thing for anyone.
And I remember at that stage, I suppose that's when we came even closer
because you did spend a lot of time at our place.
And there was other places you stayed with as well for months at a time,
because back in the day, your dad was a big deal.
And if you went overseas, you went for months.
You didn't go and come back and go and come back here.
It was a huge journey.
So you stayed over there for a period of time.
I used to love staying at your place.
Love. I mean, it was like your best friend.
You're staying at your best friend's house.
We were like brothers.
But I hope you don't mind me talking about this.
And I've always felt bad to Janelle, your mom,
because there was one time it would have been around that time when
probably when I didn't work out with dad, well, I was terrible at your place.
And I remember just seeing your mom with you, right?
And it would just make me really angry.
I mean, of course, it makes sense now.
But one time I just lost it.
And I had to go to her for her spaghetti bolognese,
which was literally the best spaghetti bolognese you've ever had.
And I think I said something like my mom makes it better or something like that.
And your mom is always like, OK, it's OK.
But I was launching and you I remember you looking at me like,
like, what are you doing?
Like, I remember this.
I remember that. Absolutely.
Absolutely. I remember.
And it was something outside the front, too.
One day you were really angry and like,
but it was so out of character.
We knew it wasn't you.
It was just it was just you venting.
I was jealous of you that you had that everyday sort of unconditional
love and someone there and looking after you.
And I was venting.
I was completely venting and it was completely unfair.
You must be like, mom, can we ask this guy's got to get on.
That wasn't ever the case because mom understood.
Right. And then my mom said, hey, just leave him to me.
And it was all and it was only fleeting.
It was an hour or two where you were just needed some time
to just get whatever out you needed to get out.
Mom understood that.
So that was beautiful.
But made the memories I have of us and our group of friends
and what we got up to was just so special.
You know, like it was incredible, wasn't it?
We were so lucky to to have that group of mates in that school
and all that came with it.
Now, I'm thinking about it on the driveway going into Knox.
Are you telling me about your parents?
I remember you pulling to the side then told me about her crying.
And it's amazing.
It's actually amazing when my kids sort of found out
that we were friends since kindergarten and stayed,
not just friends, but like best friends.
I just kind of go, that's kind of unbelievable.
I mean, we were lucky that we always went to the same school,
but still, there were 200 guys in our year and like, let alone.
And we were super lucky.
And I read this amazing book once by the guy who wrote Freakonomics.
There's a big sort of popular book.
And the headline of this chapter was,
are your parents or your peer group more a predictor of your success in life?
And his argument was peer group.
Ultimately, I mean, when he says success, he's talking about,
I guess, the measurables, going to uni, having a job.
They said like that peer group when you're teenagers is so key.
And right through to when we left school, when, you know,
it was all the Banyana gang and all of that and that group so extended.
And we were very lucky.
Absolutely. I wouldn't change anything.
I actually wouldn't.
And I remember telling you about mum and dad.
And I was just like, well, dad's left.
And you were just like so loving about it.
But it sort of made us bond even more, I suppose,
because we did just have the one parent at home.
But your lifestyle at home with your dad, who is who is just recently passed.
And we love your dad.
But he was tough. He was a tough taskmaster.
You know, he did it the way he wanted to do it.
I know they want to come up to me and just say,
oh, your dad and this and that.
And I ask every one of them, I would say,
it was my dad like as a boss in every single person.
I'm not saying it's like harsh, but fair.
It was fair. He was harsh with everybody in this.
He was disciplined, black and white.
And thank God, a lot of it.
I mean, you can imagine mum left when I was eight.
So there were kids from eight or five.
I was eight through 15.
We had a roster system where it's five kids, five days a week.
So, you know, Monday nights was put the washing away.
But you had to do the dishwasher once a week.
You made the lunches once a week.
You cook the dinner once a week.
You did all these things.
And you didn't like you didn't.
Oh, I remember going over to your place.
And on a Sunday, you'd have a treat, right?
You'd have the Sunday treat.
And I was just thinking, OK, well, I get treats every day whenever I want them.
And here's Jacko, which is why you loved our place so much,
because you've got treats all the time with a 20 cents
worth of mixed lollies every afternoon, like with a little surprise trip
to Maccas on a Tuesday night, like business life.
This is this is amazing.
You know why dad did the treat, by the way?
No. So my dad would have a sweet or like a Mars bar was awesome,
but it could be minties and non-minties like a pack of tic tacs.
See, that's not a treat.
He's like, listen, he would give us pocket money.
And he said, I don't want you to spend your money on sweets.
So I'm going to make sure you get sweets and I'll give it to you once a week.
Ask it's 20 cents, 20 cents when we were young.
That's a big bag a day good.
My other favorite story about my dad, which I actually love.
And we've talked about this all the time in terms of how to handle your finances.
My dad would do pocket money and sit us down
around the end of summer every year.
He had a ledger book.
It looked like, you know, like an accountant's ledger's book.
You're open up, you have your year every year and every year
your pocket money went up and everyone got exactly the same money,
depending on your age, no matter what.
And let's say your pocket money is two dollars, right?
OK, Hugh, so we can break this down.
That's 10 percent for the church.
That's 20 cents. That's 10 percent for entertainment.
I'm in my head going, what's entertainment?
10 percent for clothing.
And he would break it down from when we are five, six.
Like if you want that special T-shirt, put that 10 cents, that 20 cents
and you add it up, it is the crazy thing.
Let's say dad got to it on Australia Day, right?
You would get a back pay for the difference from January one.
So if it went up to three dollars or something like that,
well, that's a dollar extra.
And so and he would make so it was meticulous.
It was accountancy like.
Not one of my siblings I ever have ever been in debt.
None of us. None of us.
All of us are just with money. No problem.
Like he was very just so methodical about it. Amazing.
Let's talk about your dad just a little bit more around his faith
because he became very much committed to his faith.
A sort of middle aged man, would you say?
Or was it earlier than that?
I believe it was just before I was born.
So he would have been like 20s, 30 something like that.
I didn't think his parents were religious at all.
His father went to the war and was a real bomb in my life, a real talk,
a bit like my uncle, very outgoing pub, loved to drink.
And my dad, I think, went.
Yeah, he went to a Billy Graham crusade, I think, with my mom.
When at that one, they broke the record,
the attendance record of the SCG for 60,000 people, you know,
and he was converted and that was it.
So I only knew my dad as an incredibly religious man.
Very religious. Everything we did socially.
For example, we would have to observe the Sabbath,
which meant on Sundays, there was no work, no homework.
I remember my brother, Ian, when he was like in year 11 and 12.
My brother, Ian, went on to those, I know, went on to be a Rhodes Scholar.
Like he came second in the state in the HSC.
And he was I remember him yelling at my dad, like having an argument
wanting to do homework on a Sunday because he's got his HSC.
My father like, no, like there's not many households like that.
Our holidays, we went to Blue Mountains to the Church Missionary Society.
So our whole life outside of school, where I wasn't with you, was the church life,
which actually, considering we were into an all boys school,
a lot of girls there at church, it was kind of great.
Like that was a good social life as well.
I know you're not particularly religious.
Why did you not necessarily jump on board like your dad?
I don't know if you remember when 13, 14, 15, maybe 13, 14.
I was super religious.
You remember me giving a sermon at school?
No, our minister was away and I said, we're looking for people to give a sermon.
I guess I was like that.
And if I walked out, Cameron was all heckling me like, you're such a nob.
And I was really, really, really mad at him.
Like I was super into, I think it gave me
a lot of structure, particularly after mum left,
particularly after mum didn't come back when I was 12.
I was really into it.
Just this idea that someone is there, you can pray to at any time,
and they're always there and always listening and has you back.
No matter what, you can hand over your problems.
If you make a mistake, you can get forgiven, all of that.
And I think around 15, 16, I was like, just the intellectual side of it
was too many questions coming up that couldn't be answered for me.
Hang on. So only the Christians going to heaven.
And it's only these particular Christians.
So boys, Buddhists and all that was like, hang on.
So if you're born, and I would ask those questions, they said,
well, God will figure that out.
And I was like, something feels weird about this.
And so I still started questioning you more and more.
But I didn't never really let it go.
And actually, I think what Dad Dylan instilled in me
and what the church and that search instilled in me is that
there is something bigger than ourselves and a meaning to life beyond just you
or your own just guts or my family, somebody to connect to some purpose there.
I think I've always still looked for that.
The actual Christian, I'm probably more a universalist.
Oscar, my son, I'm probably I feel there's probably
there's an element of truth to all those major religions.
I don't think if you put Jesus and Mohammed or Socrates or Shakespeare
or any of these sort of Buddha, you put them at a dinner table.
I don't think they're arguing.
And then they're all just going, you know, it's all the same thing
pretty much just in a different way.
I've always thought there's something better off.
I'm not quite sure what it is, but just be good down here
and you might get a good spot at the table upstairs.
And never really thought too much more about it than that. Really.
Jaco, I think everyone would be interested in knowing
how you became the man you are now in terms of being the entertainer.
And the fact is that we always played parts in school musicals.
We enjoyed performing and that sort of stuff at school.
But at what point that you had that conversation with your dad
and he said, go and get yourself a proper degree, then you can go and do your acting.
Can you talk us through that?
And then obviously going across to Whopper and realizing
that you might be able to make a go at it.
I'll just give you a little side story, because I again,
I don't know if I've told you this or anyone this, but my dad used to take us to,
I guess, like revival meeting, like the Friday night.
There was rock music, a bit like sort of Hillsong, that kind of thing.
And we were at Karengai High School and we were in there
and people were invited to come up and get saved.
It was a very sort of upbeat thing.
And the guy who was speaking was incredibly dynamic.
And I had this unbelievably strong, I would have been 14, 15.
I just knew that I was going to be on stage like it just came like a boom.
I'm going to do that.
So actually, at the time, I thought that meant I'm going to be a minister.
So when I was about 14, I thought that's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to be that guy.
I knew I was going to be up there with a lot of people around and all of that.
So I always carried that within me because you never forget a moment like that.
But I sort of forgot about it.
We did musicals. I went off.
We had a gap year. I went to uni.
I did communications at UTS and sort of quirk of fate put me in a theatre class.
And then for the first time in the theatre class history, they decided to do a play.
And I got cast as the lead, which I begged him to get me out of,
because I didn't have time and that.
And we ended up doing the play, taking it to uni at Armidale.
And they did it. They had a half communications, half theatre program.
And we were getting billeted.
And I walked in to the house I was being billeted by.
And I was like, oh, I've just wasted three years.
I just I should be doing this. This is what I'm meant to do.
So I then went off and studied at the Actors Center for one year.
Ended up getting an audition and getting the role for Neighbors.
The same weekend that I found out, I auditioned and found out
that I got a spot at Whopper and I went to my dad because I didn't know what to do.
I was like, oh, Neighbors.
And it was a thing. It was two thousand dollars a week.
It was a two year contract.
It was Neighbors at the height of Neighbors.
Mate, I remember you ringing me.
I was in England. I remember taking the phone call at the Fountain Inn
and you said, I've got a job on Neighbors or there's this other course
I can do called Whopper. I said, Whopper what?
Like, what are you talking about?
You've got to do Neighbors.
And you, for the first time, went against me correctly.
And it hasn't been the only time you've gone against me correctly.
And you decided to to go to Whopper.
And I went, I told my dad this guy.
I said, Dad, I don't know what to do.
And he said, I can't answer that for you.
I think you have to make that choice yourself.
And by the end of the weekend, it was just clear to me
because I wanted to be able to at this point, I was so into acting.
I wanted to do the National Theatre in London, Royal Shakespeare Company,
whatever came my way.
And I thought, well, being on Neighbors make me feel
I deserve to be at the Royal Shakespeare Company or the Sydney Theatre Company.
The answer was probably no.
So I decided to go and I said that to my dad.
I said, how do you feel about me being an actor?
And he said, well, I think you have the talent,
but I think you're too thin skinned.
Did I ever tell you that one?
Yeah, you did tell me that. Yeah.
I am thin skinned, but I actually weirdly think that that's sort of
that sensitivity is probably necessary in a way.
I know he was very proud of you when you did start performing and so forth.
I was sitting in many places with him and saw him
just the biggest smile on his face.
That must have made you feel really proud that you're out there doing it.
I remember in the last play at Whopper and I was playing Romeo and Romeo and Juliet.
And we did this thing where the house lights were up the whole time.
So you can see the audience.
So our job is Shakespeare and all those sort of soliloquies talk to the audience.
And I remember looking out, my dad was like row eight.
And I was doing a scene where I've been banished and I've been banished
And I look out, you know, how many times my dad cried when we were young, like never.
So I saw that picture so many times when I hosted the Oscars,
I could see him just crying, just that pride.
I remember when Ralph handed over the he was vice captain at Knox
where the senior opera house and I was becoming school captain.
And John Wall, we did that sort of handshake thing.
And I could see my dad crying again.
Like he was lovely, never said a bad word.
He was not the why did you choose that or what's this about?
Just always like, good job, wonderful, you know, so great.
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And let's get back into the episode.
Let's talk about your first professional job, I suppose.
You know, your first TV role was a pretty important one for you
for a few different reasons.
Firstly, you missed my wedding because of it, which I've never quite
ever forgiven, there's a couple of things I haven't forgiven you for.
That's the second of them.
But you ended up meeting someone very, very special on your first day.
And I remember you saying to me, oh, this leading lady, she's wonderful.
She's this and that.
And you had fallen in love with every leading lady
that you'd ever from Belinda Wilson on My Fair Lady in year 11
all the way through.
Helen crushes so easily.
I was worried about you, but this one has stood the test of time.
Deb is the love of your life and someone that you just adore and love.
Talk us through that.
I auditioned for it, the show called Corelli, an ABC series.
I was in third year of drama and I was doing that Romeo and Juliet.
And the work of that Romeo and Juliet was you found out two weeks
before the opening night what you were doing and what role you were playing.
So you had two weeks to rehearse it, to learn it.
You couldn't know before.
So I was in the middle of that and they said, we're doing an audition.
It's like a standard audition.
Every graduate gets auditioned by the ABC.
They gave you three pages.
It was some prison thing.
And I was like, everyone knew it was a crock.
Like this was a waste of time, just something they had to do with the ABC.
And so I went in, I did the audition and walked out.
Never thought about it again.
A week later, the head of the school pulled me out of class and said,
Hugh, you're the top of the shortlist for that ABC series.
And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about.
I said, that audition.
I said, no, that was just a general for the ABC.
Like, man, they guess, no, they were looking for someone for that
for a prison drama like.
So then they said, and you're going to go do the callback
in two weeks time when you're in Melbourne and they're all going to be there.
The semicircle of people and you're going to do the audition again.
And I think I slept for two weeks.
It was just horrible.
Two weeks waiting for that.
This is the luckiest break I have in my life.
I finished the showcase.
I was in Melbourne thinking I was going in the next day to do the audition.
And my agent said, by the way, they had a look again.
They're just super happy they're going to cast you.
They don't need they don't need that.
because I knew I would have blown it.
I was so nervous.
And at the first audition, I really didn't care.
So it was perfect.
So I walk in the very first day I picked up to go to set
and the lead actress, Deborah Lee Finesse, was in the front seat of the car.
And first of all, I thought that's a good sign
because I knew she'd done Hollywood movies and I had this thing
or Hollywood and everyone sits in the back being chauffeur driven.
It was the second I did pick this up.
And she turned around.
She put her knees on the front seat of the of the front seat.
And she took off her sunglasses.
She stuck out. She goes, Hi, Hugh Jackman.
I'm Deborah Lee like that.
And I just took it.
And I was like, oh, I like this.
No, I didn't think I'm in the show.
I was so nervous.
She was in every single scene, like working so hard.
But we just went like instantly best mates.
We would hang out. Never crossed my mind, actually, that.
Never even crossed my mind.
I had a crush on her until it did.
And when I realized I had a crush on her about two months in,
I was so embarrassed because everyone had a crush on Deb.
And she was the leader there, literally everyone.
So I didn't talk to her for a week.
And finally, at a dinner party.
And I thought I better invite her to this dinner party.
This is just embarrassing.
Don't know what to do.
So I invited her and she said, why aren't you talking to me?
Have I done something to annoy you?
And I said, oh, sorry, I've got a crush on you.
I'll get over it. I'll get over it.
I didn't say bye, was it Deb? Yeah.
And she goes, oh, really?
And she goes, yeah, I got one on you, too.
And I'm like, right, sorry, what?
Then I'm like, I think that was the invitation to kiss up.
Missed it. Gone. Trains left the station and gone.
Just then trying to shimmy it back into a realm.
You always missed it, but you like you were always handsome.
You were always loved by everyone.
And you continually played and missed outside the off stump.
You just did not take the hint.
No, not good. Terrible.
So we thought we were keeping it a secret, by the way, on set.
Of course, later we found out that literally everybody knew.
But the moment we knew everybody didn't know is we were doing a scene together.
And we learned across the table and we're just sort of chatting.
And it was one of those chats of when we finished work tonight, when we get home,
this is how it's going to go.
And both there was telling me that.
And I remember seeing something a little furry out of the corner of my eye.
And I'm like. The boom mic.
Deb looked at it and the boom mic
went to the boom, which went to the guy with the headphones,
who's just looking away, smiling, and you're at the ABC studio.
So it doesn't just go to the sound recorder.
So it goes to the central ABC, whatever sound mixer.
I'm like, all right, it looks like it's out. We're done.
Oh, that's so awesome.
I remember you telling me that you'd never felt quite like this before.
And you weren't worried about the age gap.
That's the first thing that everyone comes and hits me with,
because people that don't know you guys together don't have a clue.
You know, did that ever come across your mind that there was an age gap?
You were so much younger.
That was the amazing thing.
I totally understand why people go, right,
because I would have been like that, too, if someone else.
But first of all, if you meet Deb, I'm very much more
the more older, boring, mature one.
So she's still like a little kid.
And that was sort of like from the beginning.
However, forgetting that, it never bothered me for a second.
I was just so when I say in love, infatuated, I wasn't infatuated.
I doubted it for a second because I'd never felt anything like that,
that I thought I'm going to wait six months.
I'm just going to wait.
I knew I wanted to marry it like two weeks in.
But of course, my history of deforming and I'm going to wait.
And then it just became every day clearer and clearer and clearer.
In fact, I remember three weeks in, we were at a dinner party
and I knew just the way she was behaving,
that she was working out ways to break up with me.
I could just tell.
And I also knew that same moment.
It was because I represent I was a young actor on his first job.
And she'd always said in before we were together,
she could see where things were going for me.
I couldn't, obviously, but.
And I think she was like,
I don't know if I want to be signed up for this, you know?
And I said, are you trying to on the drive home?
I said, are you are you working out reasons in your head to break up with me?
And she looked at me and she goes, yeah.
And I said, no, I get it.
I said, I understand that this is probably a pretty scary situation,
but I think you just have to get over that
because I think we're going to be together.
And even as it came out, I was like,
that's not me. Well, you know, I was normally like, oh, shit.
If she's going to dump me, I'm going to run first.
I didn't want to be left like that.
And so I'm circling back to the age thing.
It really just went away in the same way.
Lily is exactly like if you said, well, I like brunettes.
I only like brunettes or I only like tall women or I only like blah, blah, blah.
I only like this.
And then you meet someone who's the opposite of what you said you like.
And then you just go, well, I love this even more.
They gave us like that.
And so the number meant nothing.
Well, I certainly know that.
And I certainly know you are the old boring one compared to them.
If they've known me or met me, even if they're fans of mine,
it's always like, don't get me wrong.
You're great. But you're a wife. Yeah.
That is very true.
So, Jack, let's talk about the kids for a moment,
because you've adopted two beautiful kids.
Oscar's my godson, your first and then over a few years later.
What was that whole thing like for you and Deb going through
trying to have your own and then adopting?
And obviously, I think Deb should be Australian of the Year
for what she's done for adoption in this country and around the world.
But what was that whole process like for you?
So the age, Deb, was when we met, we were like, let's just get to it.
Let's go. And so we tried.
What was really hard was we had two, certainly maybe three,
like one, we weren't 100% sure miscarriages,
but two certainly carried long enough where your hopes were up.
And that was really, really hard.
I remember at the time there was a horrible picture of Deb,
like it was just the angle was wrong.
And we just found out that the baby hadn't carried and we had miscarriage.
And but it was like, is Deb hiding something under?
And it came out and everyone sending this, oh, is it true?
And just when we the night before, she'd been in tears.
And so this is so hard.
And to do that publicly, that was really hard.
And Deb, I'm more philosophical, like I knew I was meant to be.
I just knew I was meant to be with Deb in the same way I knew when I was 14
that I was going to be on stage.
There's a few things I've known very clearly.
So however it happened, whatever happened,
I knew that that was the path we were meant to be on.
But Deb is very much a.
You make things happen if you want to make them happen.
And so this was the first time, I think, for her where something
she'd really wanted just wasn't happening.
And that was really, it was hard, really hard.
I actually was the one who said because we did rounds of IVF as well.
And anyone who's been through that knows that it's exciting in one way
to have that opportunity, but it's really difficult for the woman,
the hormones and the treatment and the hopes that you get up.
I think we did four rounds of that, maybe five rounds of that.
And finally, I just said, but let's just adopt, which is something
we'd always talked about doing.
So I don't know why I'm trying to remember why the other day.
Like Deb and I, from the beginning, it talked about having a mixture of
adopted and biological kids if we were lucky enough to have it.
Maybe it was because, you know, our other friends, the Rawstones
had that same situation, a family that I spent time with when we were growing up.
Had that situation, but it felt right to both of us.
So we then just went down the path of adoption.
I was like, Deb, let's just do that.
I think let's just concentrate on that because it was too hard for me
to watch her going through all that.
And then we tried to do it in Australia and it was just brutal.
It was brutally hard at the time and it was actually discouraging.
We went to that first night.
It was very negative.
We really got the sense that they were trying to put people off,
like deliberately, like there's not many, this is going to be hard.
And, you know, are you sure?
And so we actually went for the meeting with the person.
And the first thing the person said, and we were in Melbourne,
she said, don't think because you're famous, you're going to get special treatment.
That was the first thing I was like.
I mean, Deb was famous.
I was not really, but we were like, this just feels weird.
So luckily, Deb had a green card or we had the option of adopting through America,
which was just a much easier situation.
And then Deb's dedicated with 20 years of her life now to
highlighting those issues and making it better for people.
I remember, Jacco, when you said that Oscar was going to turn into a Jackman
and we flew over and, you know, we held him and the beautiful lady judge.
And and he became Oscar Jackman.
I remember that day so well.
It was a very emotional day for everyone because you were,
I think you just finished Swordfish.
Yeah, we just finished Swordfish.
And he was about one when I did something like that.
And so we were doing the official papers and we went into that courtroom.
And I know there's some of the courtrooms that are still very formal.
You don't know how to act.
And of course, there were cases before hours and it was all very serious.
And people coming in with serious things going on.
And okay, so Oscar Jackman, yeah, we're there.
She's a loveliest lady.
And Oscar's holding the gavel and we're just mucking around.
We're taking photos.
And she's like, and she's remember, she said, this is the best thing
that's happened to me all week.
Like she just loved to see a family come together.
And then when it, what I liked also is when it came to the thing
and she did, gave it a little bit of a formal ring to it.
Like it was just awesome.
And Oscar was crawling around on the desk.
She was the perfect age that that grandmother age of hers, you know,
she was just perfect and it was so lovely.
Vixen, I remember it so well.
Do we have time to tell about a little side trip that we took to Vegas?
No, don't, don't say everything.
My godson, Jack, you were there.
So we all went on a road trip.
I think I'd just finished the film.
We went on a road trip to Vegas.
And we're walking and what obviously none of us knew, but we worked out
pretty quickly was it was the annual porn awards that were being held in
the same hotel that we were staying in.
And all of us must've just looked like complete out of town.
You're like, what's going on?
Like it was, and being in the elevator with these people just, Oh, hi Bill.
This is my husband.
Oh, we worked together on a film.
You're such a professional.
She's like, Oh, I love you to meet you.
And we're just like shaking hands.
She had a great time in that film.
And I'm like, wow.
And I remember them wanting to have photos and stuff with you.
And it was just really good fun.
That was a great trip to Vegas.
Only a couple of nights, but it was so awesome.
But let's talk about some of the big things that have happened in your life.
So if we fast forward and say that you, you start doing movies and so forth,
hosting the Academy Awards, winning Tony awards, you know, having those nights
where you can only dream of what's that been like for you?
I'm really glad that I said yes to a lot of things, even things that.
Scared me that my instinct was always like, for example, the Oscars to say yes.
And then of course I doubted it.
And I remember just before I went on stage of going into a hole, like,
I'm like, what am I doing?
And they're like 40 seconds, 30 seconds.
And I'm like, why did I say yes?
I'm not Billy Crystal.
I'm not even close to Billy Crystal.
I'm not even the funniest guy in my group at high school, let alone doing this.
And I remember Valdez has been there for 26 years saying, like Mr.
Jackman, I said nothing.
He goes, and don't worry, man.
It's only a billion people watching on telly.
And I look up and I started laughing and that saved me.
But I'm really same thing again, like with the Tony awards or, or the things
that I've ultimately, I've never lost sight of the facts that I'm a kid from
the Northern suburbs of Sydney, and I never wanted to be lying on my deathbed
as an old man going, I wish I'd just said yes to that.
Even if it didn't work out to say yes.
And most of the time that has really worked in my favour.
And I've had some incredible experiences.
I hope I have some many more, but I, I feel super lucky like being on a set
with Travolta, you name it, all the people I've got to work with, the
directors I've got to work with is still shocking to me and amazing to me.
And it's been full of surprises for a lot of famous people have this sort of
syndrome, the where you think any moment now, someone's going to tap you on the
shoulder and say, thanks, mate, it's been fun, but you've got to go.
Have you ever had that sort of syndrome of just feeling like, oh, someone's
going to take over this scene because I'm not good enough?
Uh, yeah, probably all the time.
And I don't think there's many people I know who don't have some version of that
because in some ways, I'm not going to say who, but a girl I went to drama
school with at the Acton Centre 15 years later, my career is sort of already going.
She had a few drinks.
It was the lunch thing.
She goes, yeah, like good for you, but why you like, I mean, it was sort of
actually a bit rude, but she didn't mean it to be rude.
She was just kind of going, you didn't stand out.
Like it wasn't meant to be.
And I think that feeling is something that I feel within, like just where I go
in the Oscars and I'm like, I'm hosting the Oscars or hosting the Tony Awards or
why am I in this movie called Australia in the Colquham?
Somebody at some point is going to go like, good effort, man.
Like you're not a bad guy and all that, but you're not that good.
Like really, there's a bunch of other people out there.
And I often think that I go, Oh no, I could think of a bunch of other people
who are better at this than me.
So then I think it drives me in a way.
And I think I'm learning to not let it take the fun away.
I, if I'm honest, I think it's taken some of the fun away of the moment.
If I can liken it to sport, I wish that when I was in the Super Bowl of what, of
my career, that I'm there in the game going, this is amazing.
But a lot of the time in the middle of it, it's like, don't screw this up,
don't screw this up, this is the Super Bowl, don't screw this up, that's going
okay, but don't screw it up and it's okay.
And then finally it gets to the end and you go, okay, we're all right.
Or we should have done better.
A lot of people have it, but I'm getting better at learning to just
trust, I think, and have faith and to enjoy it.
I think Jaco, when we see you on stage and I've been fortunate enough to see
you nearly everywhere, New York next year, you don't look like you're not enjoying
You actually look like you're having a ball when you're singing and dancing.
When you're doing stuff in the greatest showman, you look absolutely at ease.
So is that you holding it together, but inside feeling that imposter syndrome,
or is that more the truth?
I sometimes feel it certainly with the dancing.
I mean, every show I've been in, every single dancer in the show is better than
me, but I feel on stage, you know, that thing we always talk about in the sport,
where you go, it looks like that, like Jeff Thompson is bowling medium pace.
It just got so much time.
I have that feeling on stage.
I have that feeling of, oh, I've got time, I can work it.
It feels like there's space around me.
It's taken me a lot longer with film to feel that.
And so on stage in general, I could think sometimes I'm even more, I'm as relaxed
as I am now talking to you when I'm on stage.
And I think that goes back to that feeling I had when I was 14 and I just knew on my
bones I was meant to be there.
I think that's certainly my sweet spot.
And I feel less of the imposter syndrome.
Although if you asked me to describe how I do it or why, I don't know.
That's still a bit of a mystery to me.
Yeah, you look like Mark Waugh when you're on stage.
You look like Steve Waugh in a movie.
That's a good way of describing it, I reckon.
Oh, but if my average was as good as Steve Waugh's, I'd be Leonardo DiCaprio.
Yeah, well, that was the other question.
Let's do a few more quick fire ones because you do rabbit on a bit with your answers.
I do, but you can edit it.
Yeah, so there must be a pecking order, right?
So let's say I've got one hundred and fifty million dollars and I want to do this super
duper movie. So Leonardo, Brad Pitt, George Clooney, yourself, Ryan Reynolds, Tom Hanks.
There's a list of super duper actors and whatever.
Where do you sit?
Like, how many people say no before you get the Guernsey?
Oh, a solid three, I would say.
Say no, but it's become more Leo, I think, is probably one of the only ones that it
doesn't matter what type of film he's doing.
It's making 100 million.
For me, if it's a musical, I might be right up there, actually, you know, if it's a
musical, if it's something close to a Wolverine where people go, oh, like, I mean,
that sort of thing. Weirdly, because you know how different that is for me, but in
that I'm I'm out there.
But once you get into action, you go to The Rock, you go to Vin Diesel, you go to
Jason Stater, there's a bunch of Brad.
So I guess in movies, I feel I'm somewhere between five to ten, somewhere in there.
I feel I'm in the top 11, but I'm not getting the commercial.
I'm not picking me for the commercial for the time.
It's cool that I love that.
I love there's a pick and order when you want to go out to dinner.
Do you make the booking and can you say, hey, it's Hugh Jackman here and you get a
How good does that feel?
That is so good, particularly in New York City.
That is really good.
When you call it six thirty, I have to tell you, when we got off the plane, it was
paparazzi in Australia.
We just come from New York and there's paparazzi chasing us all the way down.
I'm like, oh, sorry, Ava, this is annoying.
She was standing next to me.
She is that we just flew first class on Qantas from New York to Sydney for 24 hours.
We love Ava. She's so gorgeous.
Do you go for roles because of the pay that it's attached or are you attracted to
other things like the director, the producer, the character and the script?
Well, director, script, character, you know, I'm lucky enough, done well, so I
don't have to do it on that.
But sometimes I will think I would like to still stay relevant in the game.
You know, if there's a really good movie that I think that a lot of people are
like, I'll still want to have the best director and script.
How does the business side of movies work?
Do you get offered a certain amount or is it based on how well the movie goes?
Yeah, no, they take a bet on you.
So depending on what they think the movie is, if it's like an X-Men Marvel type
movie and I'm in it, they feel they're taking a guess, well, I think it'll make
this amount so we can allocate this much or then the metric is more what we lose
if we don't have it.
So then that's how they go.
Well, if he's in it, it's going to make that much more, you know?
You've started so much stuff, Jaco.
Is there one particular role that has changed you as a person?
Hmm, good question.
I think I changed a lot on this last one.
A lot happened on this last one.
It's called The Sun.
It was a very intense script.
My father passed away during it, which made it even more intense.
And I think I was doing a lot of work.
It just sort of brought a lot of stuff up.
I don't know whether it did or I just changed during it because of it.
Clayboy from Oz, I did change quite a lot doing Peter Allen on stage on Broadway.
I learned a lot from that.
I learned to trust my instincts a bit.
It's a feeling of constantly learning as you go with every part of your list,
even the ones that don't work out.
Meditation, a huge part of your life.
I've only just cracked on to it.
You're doing it for 25 years.
How important is meditation to you and how often do you do it?
I found it when I was 23.
So Transcendental Meditation TM.
And it really changed things for me back then.
I think I was just being very reactive to life or this or that.
And then I was like, oh, there's a kind of stillness and a peace below that.
I do it at least once a day, every day.
When I'm working, I'll do it twice a day.
I remember sitting with you, I think it was on Swordfish.
I'm not sure in your trailer.
And you said, I just need 10 minutes.
And you put your legs up and you lay on the ground and you sat in
silence for about 10 minutes and you woke up and you said that was nearly
as good as a full night's sleep for you.
That's how deep you got.
And I remember thinking, how cool would that be to be able to
get yourself into that space?
Jerry Seinfeld said the same, actually, we do the same type of meditation.
When he was doing Seinfeld every lunch, when everyone was going to have lunch
or did their thing or make their phone calls, he would meditate.
And he said, I could see my energy in the second half of the day.
Where everyone else was flagging.
It's sort of, it's a real, it's a reset.
What's the personality trait about yourself that you like?
What's the thing you like most about yourself?
I'm, I'm always wanting to learn.
Yeah, I love that.
And I also think you're incredibly loyal and honest.
I think you're pretty honest too.
What about a trait that you don't like about yourself?
I think I'm still too much of a people pleaser trying to be
all things to all people.
We're working on that, aren't we brother?
Was there a moment, just that one moment where you went, I've made it.
And did you celebrate that moment?
Cause I've spoken to a lot of famous people on these podcasts and very
rarely do famous, happy, successful people actually stop and smell the roses
and say, oh, this is what it's all about.
They just go to the next mountain.
I go to the next one mountain.
There was a slide moment after I had a good couple of back to backs with
Logan and the greatest showman and also the way they both sort of succeeded
sort of against all odds and all that sort of thing, particularly showman.
I remember thinking, not that I've made it because I'm still, but I
remember thinking, oh, you can't take that away from me.
Like, you know what I mean?
Does that make sense?
It's like, oh, that's something that I'll always have.
Oh, that showman was just unreal.
I just remember, remember going to the opening, remember that we were there
together and all our mates were there and all the kids were there.
It was incredible.
Actually, Fox put on that party for us at the end.
I mean, I know it was a cast party, but then Zendaya was there and Zack came up
and everyone, but literally it was a hundred of all my buddies and their kids.
And it was so much fun.
It was fantastic, man.
It was one of those really great nights and it was in Sydney as well.
So that was a good celebration moment because you guys have come to a bunch
of premieres where there was a lot of not, let's not talk about the movie.
Well, you know, you'll always get the truth from us.
A hundred percent.
OK, Jacko, let me finish this podcast off.
And it's been beautiful.
We could literally talk forever, but we've got the top five
or a fast five questions to finish.
So your favorite holiday destination.
Oran Bay. Beautiful.
How good was that trip?
Was that your 35th?
We went there. Yeah, 35th.
We went hang gliding. That's right.
Never forgive you for that.
Is there one that you live by?
A life lived in fear is a life half lived.
Singing in the rain.
Oh, what about your favorite movie that you're in?
Mm hmm. Can't give you that.
I mean, literally probably three or four.
And I just always pick them apart anyway.
Yeah. Favorite book, because I know how much you read,
especially you're reading a lot at the moment.
What's your favorite book?
Siddhartha by Herman Hess.
What's that about?
It's about the Buddha, but it's about his journey from being a prince
to becoming to on his spiritual journey.
And I read that when I was about 18.
And I've reread it probably every five years.
OK, I'm going to say, oh, really?
Oh, good. I'll read it.
No. Has it got pictures?
I'll put some pictures in.
Yeah. I'll just randomly throw some cricket pictures in there for you.
That'd be perfect. Thank you.
I am reading at the moment, The Second Mountain, which you asked me to buy
and some evolution one about stripping down success and stuff.
I got that up by the loo.
So there's two books that I'm reading at the moment.
They're both suggestions from yourself.
So nice. Your favorite charity.
I know there's so many that you love and support and Deb loves and support.
But who would you like to give the $10,000 to from Shaw and partners?
I'm going to give it to Gotcha for Life.
It is honestly one of my favorite charities.
And it's not just because you conceived it and found it and are running it.
I'm actually really interested in philanthropic work
that makes a massive difference.
That's not about money.
It's about tools, simple tools to make our life better,
to make our communities stronger and richer and to make sure
that we're not leaving anyone behind.
I mean, we say that all the time.
You're only as happy as your unhappiest kid. Right.
And if we just broaden that out from our husband, wife and two kids,
or whatever it is, our nuclear family, we just started to think of our community,
even our best friends, all that as our family.
And if we were really just supporting those people, how much better we'd all be.
And I think that's what I love what Gotcha is doing.
It's just so practical.
A lot of people out there talking about mental health.
But I think you guys are doing your best and really giving practical tools
for people to make all our lives better.
Thank you, Jack. Oh, yeah.
The village scenario you're talking about there is as simple as it can be.
Right. Right down the list of the people you love and adore.
You can't imagine living without.
Well, and then go to work to make sure that they don't worry alone.
And that way, you're looking after your village.
And because if you look at the problem as a world's problem,
it's probably too big for most people to to deal with.
But, you know, I love the fact that you're so committed to gotcha
and you understand what I go through and the emotions.
And you're my gotcha for life friend that I can ring up and say, hey,
this is all going to be too much for me.
You know, what do you reckon?
And you give me good counsel or given our friendships got better
since you started this work, because actually all of us need tuning up on that.
Yeah, that's true, brother.
Well, thank you so much for your time on Northern Overnight Success.
You are certainly that you work very hard for what you've got
and you deserve every bit what I love about you.
A little story I heard was when the Americans were saying
there's too many foreigners in this country and we've got to get rid of them.
And they were like, yeah, we're going to get rid of, you know, four or five actors
from different nationalities, English, European.
And we've got to get rid of that Russell Crowe.
He's got to go. And then someone said, oh, what about Hugh Jackman?
They went, whoa, whoa, whoa.
We're not getting rid of Hugh Jackman.
Everyone looked in the committee nods and said, no, we can keep Hugh Jackman.
So they checked everyone else out, but they kept you.
And it was I've seen you over the years being very uncomfortable situations.
Where people are just at you all the time and you never lose your shit.
You're always continually calm and modest and kind.
And that's who you are.
And I'm very, very, very, very proud to call you my best friend.
So thank you for joining us today, brother.
And I love you back at you. Love you too, man.
Well, that was nice to get the first one away
and to do with my best friend was really extra special.
And I must admit, I sat here listening to him thinking,
I haven't heard this story before.
And I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.
Coming up on the next episode of the podcast
is one of Australia's most successful real estate agents.
His name is Gavin Rubenstein.
In this interview, we talk a lot about the passion and drive that fuels Gavin,
the athlete like dedication and love of the competition.
He really has an interesting perspective on delegation and playing to your strength.
A big thank you to Shaw and Partners Financial Services,
who have generously supported this podcast and also donated
$10,000 to the charity of choice of each of our guests
to thank them for their time.
Shaw and Partners are an Australian investment and wealth management firm
who manage over $28 billion of assets under advice.
With seven offices around Australia, Shaw and Partners act for
and on behalf of individuals, institutions, corporates and charities.
For more info, you can check out their website at shawandpartners.com.au
That's S-H-A-W for Shaw.
Shaw and Partners Financial Services,
your partners in building and preserving wealth.