Hi, I'm Keisha Pettit, executive producer of this podcast and this is not an overnight
success brought to you by Shore & Partners Financial Services.
In this podcast, our wonderful host Gus Wallin sits down with some very successful people
from the world of business, entertainment and sport and they chat about their life's
journey and what got them to the position that they're in today.
Today's episode is a really special one and it's also one that a lot of you requested
through our Instagram messages.
It's with co-CEO for Shore & Partners, Earl Evans.
Now pulling back the curtain a little bit, Earl is actually the reason that this podcast
He loves building things, he loves communicating and he thought that a lot of people would
get enjoyment out of a podcast like Not An Overnight Success.
Because of his generosity, Not An Overnight Success podcast has contributed $300,000 to
charities across Australia to date.
Pretty incredible.
Earl is a multifaceted and incredibly interesting man.
What I found consistently came up in this chat was Earl's unwavering attitude of always
looking forward and it never really being about the money.
He's had some very strong relationships in his life that have gone hand in hand with
his success and I think you will find the yin yang style of relationship between Earl
and Alan, who is the other co-CEO of Shore & Partners, particularly interesting.
As for all of these podcasts, Shore & Partners have generously donated $10,000 to the charity
of choice of each of our guests.
We discuss who that money goes to in this chat.
This podcast is hosted by the wonderful Gus Wallin with production assistance by Kelly
Stubbs and Brittany Hughes.
Let's get into our chat with Earl Evans.
Earl Evans, welcome to your podcast.
Mate, I'm very well.
What were you like as a kid, Earl?
I was a good kid.
I think it depends on whose eyes you're looking at it through, mine or my parents.
I was a pretty good kid, even keeled, pretty basic, did all the things that most kids did.
You know, didn't get into too much trouble, went to school, played sport, train rules,
I was a pretty level headed kid, nothing too dull, nothing too exciting, pretty even keeled.
Where did you grow up?
So I spent my first six or seven years in the North Shore, so out at Manly, hence my
passion and love for Manly.
And then my parents moved to Queensland and I basically spent most of my adolescence in
Queensland, in Brisbane.
And is that why you're a Queensland supporter now in origin?
Well, you know, it's one of those weirdest things, right?
Because that doesn't seem to make any sense.
No, it doesn't, I know, but let's not go there.
But other than, I support Manly, so when Broncos come in in 87, I just could never make the
switch because I was a Manly supporter and I've been a Manly supporter all my life.
And then when Start of Origin came out in 1980, because I was in Queensland, I thought
well that's who you support, right?
I didn't really understand the concept of it, so after supporting Queensland for the last
since 80 to now, so you know, 40 years, I just can't make the switch.
And it's hard because I'd love to love them, having got to know quite a few of the New
South Wales players through our association with NRL and Manly, but I can't make the switch,
I'm a Queenslander.
Well, you've got the Queensland captain as your club captain, but you've got three Trevojvich
boys that you're close to as well.
It's a tough one once you get to know these personalities.
Totally, got it covered on both sides, but nah, very frequent then.
Good on you, mate.
So you're a pretty level-headed kid.
Were you smart at school?
Were you getting straight A's and that type of stuff?
Yeah, I was a pretty bright kid.
I got good marks, had a good knack for math, really liked math, so numerically I was very
strong and still am.
I actually quite like the numbers.
In my family, I had a sister, unfortunately, who was killed in a car accident when she
was 19 and I was 15 and that really changed the trajectory of my thinking and to be frank
with you, my marks went downhill straight after that.
From grade nine until I left halfway through grade 11, which is a bit of a story behind
that in itself, but just sort of checked out to be frank when she passed and went on to
So schooling just went downhill after that.
So what was her name and how close?
Her name was Kim and we were very, very close, pretty close family.
My upbringing was very good as hers was.
Typical guy, I idolized my father.
So my father, in the old days you'd call it selling, in the new world you'd call it communicating.
He was a great communicator and I really loved and admired my father.
He passed away 11 years ago, as I did my mother.
So they were married for 50 years, madly in love, met each other, were together for six
weeks, got married.
Until the day they passed, they loved each other.
I never saw them have an argument.
It was fantastic.
So I brought up in a good family and was given plenty of love, as Kim was.
And yeah, she just left the home and had a car accident.
It was a drunk driver, head on accident.
A couple of children now, I look at mum all the time and I just think, how did you survive
Which obviously you have to, you have to get on with life, right?
But it did affect me for a couple of years.
My studies went downhill and yeah, sort of never really to some degree in my schooling
years recovered from that.
So I left halfway through grade 11.
So why did you leave?
My marks went downhill, right?
And I just, my concentration just disintegrated and I don't know what that was for.
It was to do obviously with the death and without sort of exploring it too much.
My studies just went downhill and it was in the good old days when they gave you your
exam, you know, they gave you your marks at the end of every six months and 12 months
So halfway through grade 11, I was sort of really disinterested in school.
I loved the world of sales.
I love that communication of people and wanted to go into real estate.
That's actually what I really wanted to do.
My father was in real estate at that stage and I wanted to go in real estate and it was
back in the days of commission only and back 30, 40 years ago, nobody under 30.
Every person today is under 30 that's in real estate.
Back then, nobody under 30 was in real estate.
So it was a big tall ask at 17, 17 and a half, couldn't legally be registered till I was
So I was going home on the train, looked at my report card, thought, this is bloody terrible.
This is appalling.
And I can remember to this day, I had my report card in my hand and I said, I cannot take
this home and show my mom and dad.
It was just disgraceful.
It was like, and the hand went out the window with the report card on the train and, oh,
And there goes the exam.
And so my mom and dad never got to see that.
But I did go home to them and actually say, look, why don't you give me the money from
the school that you're paying to the school.
I was going to Brisbane Grammar, which I loved, still have an association with and met many
friends there that are lifelong friends and helped me get into real estate.
And that's how I got into real estate.
I was working part time at night, which I had been for a couple of years at Kentucky
Fried Chicken, which was my first job.
So I worked at the Colonel and started at six and left at midnight and burnt my hands
on the oil and all that sort of stuff.
I ate a lot of KFC too quietly.
And yeah, so I worked at night.
I got into real estate.
I was in that for four or five years before I got into finance.
Seven day a week job.
I'd finished KFC at 11.
I was living at home.
I'd be in the office at 6.30, had a passion for it.
And it was in a time where anything that I could absorb to learn on sales, body language,
skills, writing, anything to improve myself, to make myself a better person in the world
of sales, if you want to call it that.
I did it for four or five years.
I ended up having two agencies, real estate agencies myself.
I had two Richardson and Wrench franchises on the Gold Coast.
My dad helped me get into the business and get me a job to start with.
And he also helped finance me into the real estate business, mom and dad did.
And it was great.
We sold the businesses and they were very successful.
And then I went on to the next stage of my career, which was finance.
So do you think your dad and mom let you leave school because it was going into something
your dad was involved in?
Or do you think they looked at you and went, you know what, he's had a few tough years
since the situation with Kim.
We just need to give him something positive to look at.
I think it was the latter.
And I often quite look back, life has turned out actually okay.
So don't feel sorry for Earl.
It's been pretty good.
But I do actually quite look back and I did do lots of qualifications afterwards.
I did diplomas in finance and financial planning and various other bits and bobs.
And that was to sort of prove to myself that I probably had a bit of a brain.
And I do look back and think to myself, they should have forced me to stay.
I should have gone to university.
I should have done law or accounting or something.
I mean, I don't know why I sort of think that, but I think you're right.
The latter is right.
They felt a bit sorry for me.
They let me off the leash a little bit too early in hindsight.
I think they should have been a bit tougher and a bit harder, but it's all panned out
You know, the one thing they gave me a lot of was love.
Well, dad's obviously not here, but they're just both wonderful people.
I was very lucky.
You know, I lived in a world that was nonviolent, very loving.
You know, I went to KFC and saw somebody with a lady with a, you know, sort of shiner on
her eye and she was a victim of domestic violence.
And so you sort of see a few things like that in early age and you go, how lucky is my life?
It was a pretty good life really in the early days, but I think they let me off a bit too
Are you the type of guy that when you went to KFC that you had to be like staff member
of the week and staff member of the month and stuff, or were you just a...
I like to get in.
I like to do the work.
I was a, you know, I really rolled my sleeves up.
I remember the guy said to me, you know, you could have a big future here and you could
be the manager of this store.
And I sort of remember looking at him at the time thinking, yeah, no, that's not going
I was using the money to save.
And then when I started working in real estate, I was using money to pay for fuel and buy
a car and do all that sort of stuff.
Clearly I wasn't going to go down the management route of KFC.
But I have a mate from school.
He's got four or five Maccas franchises now and he started working as a manager at Waitara
and we'd be sitting there throwing the gherkin at him out of the cheeseburger.
And who's laughing now?
He's got a lot of money.
He's flying, you know?
And he has had the most magnificent management style processes honed into him by McDonald's
in America and Australia.
It's interesting you say that.
I had a guy that worked for me for a long time left us and him and his brother bought
KFC franchises and I think he had 16 or 17 of them and they sold them for a lot of money.
He worked, you know, tirelessly at it for 10, 15 years, but same thing.
He was a pretty undisciplined bloke, great guy, a manly supporter.
But at the end of the day, they gave him all the processes, the disciplines and what he
did very well out of it.
So first job, KFC, then you dive into the real estate, four or five years, so successful.
Why move away from that and go into finance and obviously doing what you do now?
But at the time, is that not strange, early 20s to make that move?
Yeah, well, like everyone, you have, I think when you're young, you know, you certainly
You want to try different things, experience different things.
We were successful at it.
We had a great offer for the businesses.
It was too good offer to say no to.
We had a non-compete, so we sold the businesses, did really well out of them.
My business partner went on to be very, very successful.
He's a global head of a real estate business now, sells hotels and ledgers area globally.
And he could do that outside of the non-compete.
I didn't really want to do that.
So I sort of looked around to get into finance.
My first paycheck, I did buy shares, so I really liked shares.
And as I said, I had a strong bent towards numerics.
I sort of loved the thrill of the market at that stage.
And it's totally different to what it is now, but back then.
And so I interviewed with everybody all over town and ultimately got a job.
Took me a year, eight months to get in.
Is this Brisbane?
It was in Brisbane.
I got a job with Ordmanet, which is one of our major competitors now.
And they were a great firm back then.
And they're still a great firm.
You know, they gave me my start and I'll forever be grateful.
And you know, they're a hundred year old firm and I got to start with them.
And it was a good old days, right?
Like it's quite interesting.
You know, back then, it's hard to believe, but you know, there's a phone, there's a desk.
They didn't quite give you the yellow pages, but you know, get on the phone and cold call
was really the message.
They gave you no training, no nothing.
It's extraordinary to think 30, 35 years ago, 40 years ago, it's like operating on somebody.
There's a scalpel, there's a needle and thread, and you've got no qualifications at all.
So they give you the license.
They gave me no training, but I was very good at it.
I was very good at the people side, the communication, the skills.
I don't know whether I was the best advisor.
Incidentally, you find you get knocks in life.
I was there for four or five years, very successful at it, had a lot of client base.
I got fired from the job, right?
I got called into the boardroom and I thought they were actually pulling me in to give me
a promotion and they terminated me and I, it was for various reasons.
I was probably a little bit too sharp.
I was late twenties.
I was probably too successful, maybe had a swollen head and it was one of the knocks
in life that actually you either learn from it and grow or you continue on ignorantly
So they did me the greatest favour in the world because I went on to do better things
and I'm a very loyal person.
So arguably if they didn't do that, I could still be there today, but it forced me to
It forced me to change.
It forced me to look at myself and go, well, okay, what could I have done better?
And whilst there may have been some politics, maybe there was me involved, I was a little
I was very successful and doing very well.
You know, it was a great wake up call and, you know, I was smart enough, I think, to
sort of step away and say, righto, learn from it, get back on the bike and don't make that
stupid mistake again and smooth yourself out a little bit.
And I think that's the victim of being too successful, too young.
So is that yourself getting ahead of yourself because you...
Look, I've never really had a swollen head, but maybe just a bit sharp, not communicating
with the office as well as maybe what I should have.
Maybe I thought a little bit highly of myself, just not sort of slowing it up a bit, going
at 100 mile an hour.
And again, you can look back and say, well, they gave you no training, they gave you nothing,
but that was the industry back then.
You know, again, just adding a little bit more polish, slowing up a little bit, being
a little bit better read, getting a few more extra qualifications, learning from the experience.
You know, there was a bit of fold on both sides, but predominantly it was me.
And you got to learn from that and march on.
So I look at them, I'm so grateful for Almanac giving me my start in the industry.
And I'm also grateful for them, to be frank with you, for firing me because had they not,
I wouldn't be where I am today.
It forced me to look at myself and to make changes and to grow and to develop.
I went on to have a great career at Macquarie for, you know, 15 years or something thereabouts
and then onto this particular journey here.
So that was all part of the learning phase.
Fortunately, I happened young and I was smart enough to not blame other people, but to look
at myself in the mirror.
That afternoon when you get fired, do you go home as a single man?
Are you going home to your wife?
No, I went home to Katie.
She was a lawyer, actually.
So she's the real smart one of the family.
She did marketing and then went and worked for a couple of years.
And then she decided that she wanted to go and do law.
So because she'd done a previous degree, law is a four year course, two years articles.
She actually could do it in a three year period.
She got 99.7 was a high score ever in the history of law in Queensland.
Yeah, I got it as well.
And she got the medal.
So she was in the same building.
So I rung her up.
Here I am with my box of goodies.
And I said, look, they've just let me go.
I'm going to go home.
She's like, what?
And I was a bit like that.
But she'd been great, great supporter.
We can come to that later on.
But yeah, I mean, you've got to go back and reflect.
It didn't take me long to get up.
I was up by five p.m.
making calls and getting back on the horse.
But I did reflect on it, obviously, for a period of time after that.
And I was smart enough and intuitive enough to know, hey, this is a message.
So, you know, sharpen up, deflate the head a little bit, polish up a little bit, be less of a braggart.
All of those things.
And I had to educate myself.
I had to go and get some qualifications, educate myself, all that sort of stuff.
So it was a great learning curve.
And, you know, if it is to be, it's up to me.
Right. I had to make the change.
So if you're up by five p.m., but then you obviously reflected on it for a little while,
has that always been your way to be able to sort of try to see the positives
in something that could be seen as a real negative?
Yeah, look, I think I'm a pretty pragmatic person.
So, you know, I'm not that emotional up and down.
I'm a very even-killed person.
It is what it is. Let's deal with it.
It doesn't have to be like it is.
So let's make sure it's not like that next time.
And I think at the time, it was one of those scenarios where, again,
I was up in the sense that I'm not one to dwell.
I'm not one to look back. I'm not one to, so woe me.
I'm always half full rather than half empty.
You know, it's a go light instead of a stop light.
It can be either or. It's your choice.
And I've always been like that.
And I think in the early days of the selling of real estate,
I absorbed myself in psychology and selling and communication and body language,
like I said before.
And that all sort of came to the front.
So it was my choice to how I handled it.
There was definitely blame on my side.
And I had to look at that.
If you were just ignorant and just brushed it, you're not learning.
And I think life is about learning.
I think at the end of the day, I learned from it and I marched on.
And that was the key.
So straight on the phone, ringing people, explaining what happened.
It was interesting, you know, like I went for about four or five job interviews.
And in Brisbane, it's a very small city, right?
So the word had gone through the street.
This high profile broker that drives a Porsche got fired, right?
So, oh, there must have been something to it.
He must have done something wrong.
And it sort of really wasn't like that.
But I had lots of people that said no.
And I have one guy who knew me and said,
I've made two phone calls, I know what happened.
You've had a clash, you know, bloody, bloody blah.
And he gave me a start.
And who was that?
I was back on, it was a guy called Russell Krauss,
who incidentally shares the same birthday as me, 5th of January.
And we still stay in contact.
It was like, you know, two days later.
And I could take all my clients with me and all that sort of stuff.
So, you know, again, even a month or two later, it was great motive.
I used it as motivation to go on to greater things.
But I was smart enough to know that I had to change and evolve and mature a little bit.
And upskill myself.
And that was, you know, that took a while.
You're changing, you know, you're different.
So you're different in your teens, your 20s, your 30s, your 40s, your 50s.
As you would know, it's an evolution.
You change continually.
Every decade, I know I'm different to what I was the previous.
Sometimes I look back and I don't really like myself on that decade.
But I know what you mean.
That the last five, six, seven years for me have been a huge learning curve.
And I think I'm a much better person because of that.
But I think it's taken to be 50 to sort of understand that.
So from the time that you get your box and you ring up Katie and say,
I'm out of here, you put the box in the back of the Porsche.
It was in the front, actually, in the back.
Looked at the bonnet up.
I've never had a Porsche.
Part of the reason I was a wanker, actually, just quietly.
But anyway, go on.
So you eventually, within what, a month or so, you're working for someone else?
Within two weeks.
Within two weeks.
OK, so it's a bump in the road.
You're working on yourself, but your life is moving on and you have a purpose again.
And also, I imagine, a little bit of like, I'm going to show you.
Look, you have to have that.
You've got to have a bit of sting in your tail if you want to get ahead.
Again, I think the key is just not get carried away with yourself.
I knew I was going to get moving straight away.
It wasn't going to hold me back.
And I did use it as motivation.
But I'm not a guy that gets bitter.
I didn't blame them.
Like I said, I am so grateful they gave me a start in the industry.
They're a wonderful organization now.
And they were a wonderful organization then.
And I was incredibly proud to work for them.
They're a different culture to what we have here at Shore & Partners.
But it's like personalities.
Everyone has different personalities and people gravitate to your personality
that very much is like them.
So I was never bitter about it.
It was about just learning.
I wasn't happy about it.
I wasn't happy about what they did in the process.
But shit happens and you got to get on with it.
I can't unscramble the egg. I was gone.
I was downstairs with my box, lifting up the hood of my car, putting the box in.
I was done, cooked. So what do you do? Mope around?
But like I said, I think I was smart enough and I think that's the key to growing.
Got to have an element of self-awareness.
Yeah. And I've always had that.
How long were you at that job for?
I think I was there four years, five years, something like that.
OK, so another good stint.
I was integrated, yeah.
I was sort of integrated into the business.
And then I went from there and, you know, I had a couple of little moves
and ultimately ended up at Macquarie, which I had a great stint at,
another phenomenal Australian success story and a great organisation.
Love my time there, love my career there.
Just blessed to have experienced it and experienced it at a low level
and at a high level, at a senior executive level.
So I spent five years in North America running through four of their divisions
and I just, you know, I really love my time.
I left because it just sort of came to its natural conclusion
that, you know, it was a big bulge bracket place that has certain levels of,
let's call it, bureaucracy and various things like that,
that you sort of sit back and go, I'm sort of past that.
I've made enough money when I made the move to show my partners
that I wasn't working for the money, had nothing to do with the money.
I've been very blessed that I've always had the ability to do very well financially
and at an early age.
So I've sort of made enough that it wasn't really about going to work for money.
But I was too, I never want to retire, I want to retire.
Like, that's like boring.
Yeah, you're never going to do that.
No. So, you know, I got the opportunity to show partners
and that's been a great journey.
That's where we'll go to in a moment.
But I just want to flip you back to sort of Katie.
Where did you meet?
Did you fall in love?
Did she fall in love first?
What was that all about?
Yeah, I don't know how about it.
I don't know who fell in love first.
I think we met when we were about 17.
Can I take a guess and say that you did?
Yeah, yeah, probably.
I think what's been great is, you know, we've known each other
and been best mates for 40 years.
So whether you use the word marriage or lovers or friends or whatever,
what's been really so influential in my life
is we have been best mates for 40 years.
And, you know, I think from my perspective,
everybody has shit behind closed doors.
Everybody, I've got mine, she's got hers, you've got yours.
She's seen through everything, the good and the bad of my life.
You know, like, again, getting terminated or whatever that might be.
But always been there to support me, push me up.
She's been a great supporter.
And to be honest, just being always there.
I mean, she's the number one influence in my life.
I admire her the most.
She's very level headed as well, and she's bloody smart.
A lot smarter than me.
And she's very intuitive.
We've got two great kids.
You know, again, if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't have the two kids.
So, you know, our two kids were born via surrogacy in the US.
It was a long process.
So I won't sort of bore you with it, but it was a very long process.
Katie's had her difficulties from a health perspective.
And she's seen through all of that, which, again, she approached it
in just an amazing way, precluded her from having children.
And we went down this path of surrogacy.
And that was a long, hard journey and expensive, I might tell you.
I say to Jordan, who's 11, I said, mate, you cost us
over a quarter of a million bucks.
So can you make sure you're smart at school?
Because I want the money back.
And Alessandra is the same.
So she was the one to put all that together.
It was a long process, a dedication to it was phenomenal.
And to be honest, if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't have the two children.
So she put all the effort and the energy into that.
And we've got two great kids, which we love and adore
and are the center of our universe, to be frank, as all children
are to their parents, I'm sure. Of course.
So that whole process, like we had eight pregnancies, Vicks and I
for three children. So that's our own journey.
You know, losing twins twice, not being able to feel for a while
that you're ever going to have children.
But in the end, Jackie Boy comes along.
He's now 22 and then Ella and then Abby.
And you think, wow, you know, that's it's incredible
how sort of these type of things can work.
But then you realize how many people do struggle.
It's a little bit like I said before.
Everyone's got their shit behind closed doors.
Right. And whether it's that or whether it's breakups
or whether it's mental health or whether it's financial stress
or everyone has their shit behind closed doors.
And you try to keep it behind closed doors. Right.
So because you don't want people to sort of air your dirty linen.
Some people love that.
But if you like most, you don't.
And again, we went on a similar journey and that causes problems
in the relationship that causes a whole lot of stress, 100 percent.
So, you know, again, I just have the greatest respect
and admiration for Katie as a human being, as a mother, as a partner,
because, again, she's she was just so solid through all of that process.
And she had a very difficult health issues.
She's got a health issue called ankylosing spondylitis,
which is a fusing of the joints.
And I won't go into too much of it, which is a bit boring.
But if you don't keep moving, the joints fuse.
So she gets up and swims every single morning,
whether it's zero degrees, whether she's on holidays,
because you've got to keep the joints moving until the virus burns itself out.
Problem is, when it burns itself out,
it's done so much damage to your body that you're lucky to survive.
So she sort of threw that journey.
But again, she lives with it, gets a lot of arthritis, all that sort of stuff,
but always wakes up every morning.
She's very similar to a mother, you know, with a smile, happy, cheery.
She's great. I was blessed when I met her.
Where did you meet? How can you make you a brother?
He was on the Gold Coast. It was on the Gold Coast.
We met at a nightclub. I met a brother.
Plenty of relationships that have met that way haven't quite worked out the same way.
No, no, no, it's good.
But the most important thing, I think, like any good relationship,
we're just great mates.
She's my go to on anything.
Hopefully I am to her.
But, you know, we're great communicators.
And, you know, I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for her.
There's just no, absolutely unequivocally, no question in my mind.
She's been a great motivator, inspirer, kept me level headed,
seen me through some dark times, seen me through some good times.
And she's had her own shit to deal with and sort of absorbed it and marched on.
So we're in a, you know, we're in a good spot.
She sounds an amazing woman. She's good.
Is it sort of love at first sight for you?
Probably for me. I don't know if it was for her.
And I did everything I could probably for her to say, listen, you know,
what are you doing? See you later.
But anyway, she hung tough and I was a bit of a lair.
And she was far more conservative as she is in life now.
She's far more conservative than me.
I think she was 22. I was 25.
So it's like it's been a good been good journey.
And I think over all of that, you get, I think, like anything,
you know, you get over the, you know, all the lovey dovey stuff
and you become great mates.
And then you try to achieve something together in your life.
And there's shit that happens that tries to throw you off course.
Hopefully you come out the back of that or you come out the other side of it
or they just bumps in the road.
But I think, again, the strength in all of it is you've just got to have
you've got to be great mates.
Yeah. Mutual love and respect.
100 percent. For sure.
OK, so you're married, the two kids now.
What do you like as a dad?
You'd have to ask them, right?
Successful people struggle sometimes to give the time required.
To be the dad that they want to be or the mum that they want to be.
Or the mum is so good that the dad just fits into his role
and it makes it all work.
It's a really good question.
Hard for me to judge because you're self-analyzing and self-marking yourself.
I think, do I go to as many events and things that I should?
Having said that, that's because I work and I'm busy and I'm doing other things.
So call that as an excuse.
But tonight is a good example.
Jordan's got singing at school. I'm there.
So, yeah, I'm very engaged.
Every day I ring them, speak to them, go and see them.
I ring them if I'm travelling FaceTime twice a day.
Love them, kiss them, tell Jordan I'll be hugging and kissing you
until I'm ready to check out. Get used to it.
I know you're going to tell me in two years you don't like it,
but I'm going to keep doing it. Get used to it.
We'll give each other a kiss and a cuddle just around the corner
from where I drop you off from school.
I think I'm very engaged.
Katie's far more hands on than what I am.
No question about it.
And in my lifestyle, I'm fairly active.
I love travelling. I love being busy.
Don't like to sort of sit for too long.
And again, that's where that great partnership comes into play,
where Kate knows that's my band and I have to do it.
You know, like I was at the footy last Saturday and last Sunday,
you know, I love going to the change rooms and see the Manly boys afterwards.
Just pinch myself and go, how the hell can I be here?
You know, tomorrow I'm going flying to Darwin to see the supercars.
And for three days, I get back Tuesday and I leave on Wednesday.
Sorry, I get back Monday and I leave on Tuesday for Austin, Texas.
I'm working on some transactions with a venture capitalist up there.
So I'm there for a day and a half, go to LA for a day and back here.
And that's been my life, my whole working career.
So she's very supportive of that, very protective of that.
So to answer your question, I think she comes first, I come second with the kids.
But now I'm pretty engaged.
I mean, I'm across it.
You know, I'm the different parent.
She's a little bit looser with them.
I'm the disciplined one.
Like I said, as your dad, mate, you can be poor at everything.
It's non-negotiable on math.
So he gets math tutoring twice a week.
It's non-negotiable.
You need to be able to count up money, mate.
You might inherit a little bit.
And, you know, they'll be who they want to be.
So I think I'm pretty engaged.
Just quickly interrupting the episode to say a very big thank you to the sponsor
of this podcast, and that is Shure and Partners Financial Services.
Shure and Partners are an Australian investment and wealth management firm
who manage over $28 billion of assets under advice.
With seven offices across Australia, Shure and Partners act for and on behalf
of individuals, institutions, corporates and charities.
For more info, you can check out their website at shureandpartners.com.au.
That's S-H-A-W for sure.
Shure and Partners Financial Services, your partners in building
and preserving wealth.
And let's get back into the episode.
I want to get into Shure and Partners in a moment, but I just want to get a bit
more of you as a man in terms of your passions, because you've spoken about it
manly, obviously, one of them, the supercars now.
And the fact is you've been able to combine Shure and Partners
with a lot of your passion.
So what are the things that make you tick to make sure that you're doing good?
Because Shure and Partners is all about that.
Yeah, I think I've always been since I've been a kid, I've always been a builder.
I love building and developing things.
I like growing. I like broadening my horizons.
And I think that's also diversity in sport or people or education.
Doing things sometimes you hate makes you grow and develop.
So I've always loved sport.
I've always liked supercars.
I've always liked, you know, the Iron series.
I remember back to the Uncle Toby's days.
So to be involved in that, the great joy that I get out of all of that, supporting people.
So I've always been that, you know, a bit of a builder and a creator like we're doing
with the Summer of Surf.
I think that's just, again, part of the growing phase.
You know, I'm probably like most typical males.
I love my sport, females for that matter, but I love my work.
You know, I've loved building Shure and Partners.
When I was at Macquarie, I was in a particular division.
I particularly liked growing that division and building that and putting your footprint on it.
That's just so important.
So I think, you know, Shure and Partners, we've got to build it the way that we've wanted to.
And part of that is ingratiating who we are, which is putting back into the community,
supporting probably underfunded sports, not that supercars is, but underfunded sports.
And following a few passions.
You know, Manly has no commercial link to what we do, managing money.
It's just we bloody love it.
Alan and I are Manly fans, and we like to do it.
It's turned out very good for us from a recognition perspective and from a talking point,
but it's just given us an enormous amount of joy.
And I think you've got to be happy to come to work and do what you do and put the hours in that you do.
And that's just all part of the fabric of the business.
And it's great, you know, 90% of the staff hate Manly.
And their team, they give us a ribbing every weekend.
When they play Manly, they beat Manly or whatever it might be.
So there's this central conversation around the football.
You know, supercars are similar.
The Irons are similar.
You know, the Adelaide Lightning is similar, which is a women's basketball team there.
Yeah, you just do things that make you happy.
Why is it called Shaw and Partners?
Because it's you and Alan. We'll get on to Alan in a moment.
Yeah. Neither of your names.
No, it's not. Well, I bought a large stake in the business in 2014.
Shapiro, Harold and White.
Shaw. It's been going for 35 years.
It's called Shaw Stop Broken.
When I started in our business, we were long only shares.
It's the word, stockbroking.
The world had moved on to a little bit broader asset management,
you know, bonds, cash, international, domestic, private equity, et cetera.
And so we changed it to Partners.
And the reason why we kept Shaw is just because it didn't stand for anything good,
but it didn't stand for anything bad.
And people knew the name.
So rather than change it to Evan Zion.
And we spent the next two years going, Evan Zion, you're the old Shaw.
We thought, oh, screw that. Just keep Shaw.
And hence the reason.
Let's talk about Al, because he's your partner
and someone that I've spent a lot of time with you.
And you are very close and you have got your skill sets
and you stay very much in your lane.
He rolls his eyes at you.
You look at him sometimes going, I'm glad I don't have to do your part of the business.
Where did you meet? How does it work?
Tell us about Al.
When I was at Macquarie in 2009, I had a six month sabbatical.
And I actually tried to buy Shaw's personally myself.
So I did two presentations to the board that we had two offices,
one in Sydney, one in Melbourne, or Shaw's did at that time.
I did a pitch to the board.
It was a 30% shareholder.
I said, I'll buy that stake and let me come and run the business.
We couldn't pull it off.
I went up to North America with Macquarie at the end of my five year stint there.
I came back to Australia, realised and sort of said, my time is up.
I need a new challenge. I need new, you know, I was sick of them, quite frankly,
and they were probably sick of me.
And like what happens when you make a lot of money,
you become a little bit more outspoken or you want to do the things that you want to do,
as opposed to what other people want to do.
So to me, it wasn't about money anymore.
And so I left and I thought, to be frank with you, I was just going to,
I thought my time in the financial service business was over.
I thought I was going to manage my property interest,
which I've got to call it a nice collection of properties and equities and various things.
I was just going to go manage my own thing.
You know, I was sort of late 40s.
I thought, well, I'm done.
And the phone rang and Alan says, can I meet you?
I hadn't spoken to him for five years.
Sure. Where do you want to meet?
So where did you know him from?
I didn't know him from at all.
I just I'd called him and said, you know, I'm looking at other things to do.
I'm taking a six month sabbatical.
And then when I got to know the shore business, I said, can I buy it?
And it was like this old house in the best street, you know, the best streets,
financial services, the best industry in the world, if you ask people in it.
But it was a rundown, old, tight house.
And Alan was very good at the back end of the business, to be frank,
by his own recognition, probably not very good at the front.
I was very good at the front and quite frankly, had no interest in the back.
And so we sort of he rung me.
We met. We met at a coffee shop in the Strand Arcade.
Quickly became Kindred Spirits.
He's completely the opposite in so many ways to me.
You know, I would wear flashy watches and, you know,
Hermes ties or Tom Ford suits, you know, he shops at best and less.
And, you know, if hushpuppies aren't on sale, he's not buying them.
He rings me every week going, where's the new gotcha for life hoodie,
which I brought him today, by the way.
And then he sends me a photograph every day with it on.
Like he's the biggest dag of all time.
He handed me for three months for he said, when's Gus getting the jump?
I said, you've got about 30 of them.
He said, but I want the gotcha for life and the black one.
OK, so, yeah, that's how it sort of developed.
And we went about recrafting the business.
I suppose a few things have come out of it.
It's been probably the most rewarding personally time of my work life.
And you never want to judge it because it's all been great.
I've loved every bit of it.
The only thing that shits me, to be frank with you, it's just gone so bloody quickly.
So if there's any lesson to any listeners out there that's sort of 20, 30, 40,
don't waste time, enjoy your life, because it goes fast.
I just can't believe I've been in the business for 30 years plus.
And here I am, seven years at seven years plus coming on to eight years.
It's your partner. So you thought it was all over Red Rover.
Yeah. And it's 48.
I'll do a little bit of my own tinkering, blah, blah, blah.
And all of a sudden you have the best bit that comes.
Unbelievable. It's called reciprocity.
You put in something comes back to you in another way.
That's how I view life. So I met Alan.
He's been like a kindred spirit.
He's been a gift in my life.
We've never had one disagreement, one argument.
I say we're different in certain things.
He's of such a grounded, humble guy, whip smart, like he did medicine.
And you have to be bright to get into medicine at university.
And I think it was like within about a month or two months,
he actually sold his medical books and left university
because it wasn't for him and left, right?
I said, you left. You could have been a doctor.
Who does that? Exactly.
But anyway, that's Al and it's worked out OK for him.
He's got a lovely wife, Maura.
They've been together for over 30 years.
He's an incredible human being.
And I suppose what I love about him most is he has grown
and developed personally over the last six or seven years so much.
What I value, he's the unsung hero of the business, quite frankly.
I'm the big mouth at the front.
He sits at the back and I hear Alan got lucky.
Well, to be honest with you, I got lucky meeting Alan
because he's the glue that keeps the whole thing together.
But we just get on so well and we've got shared passions.
He's a bit like you, you're an emotional cat, right?
Like he can be sitting in a meeting and I'll look over at him
and he'll be shedding a bit of a tear on what's been said.
And I said to him afterwards, your eyes were going to be water.
He said, I just can't believe we're here and we're doing this.
You know, I can't believe we've just donated this to this foundation
or we we're in front of these people.
We shouldn't be sitting here.
I said, well, they're pretty lucky, too, you know.
That's you perfectly right.
You sit in there going, they're lucky to be with us.
But with some niceness behind that, that's not nasty.
But I'll sit in there going, I can't believe I'm here.
You put those two combined and you see what happens.
And your love for Manly, obviously, is great.
It was just that was like it was just pure luck with Mad Manly Dog.
Yeah, he was a paramount of support.
I don't think that whole thing would have worked.
I would have implied it long ago.
So, Sean Partners, when you walk in here, you get a feeling like it's a family.
You do get a feeling like it's a place where you can have a bit of fun,
but you can make some money and you can be professional.
How do you get the culture right?
Oh, I think it's look, we're very unstructured.
So I think a lot of people sit in rooms and they have the head of culture
and all of that sort of stuff, which probably works for some people.
Just doesn't work for us, right?
We're hard on sleeve people.
We've got a great bunch of staff and we've had lots of people that have come
and we've said, listen, whatever value is good that you want to keep, bring with you
the shit that you don't like from where you were previously, leave behind.
So that's a bad attitude or if that's a bad experience
or if that's a bad process, leave it behind and bring the good stuff.
So we've got a whole bunch of misfits in here
that actually just want to be in a place that's very open, very dynamic.
It is about the client.
So it's about looking after the client.
But at the end of the day, it's also about coming to work and being happy.
And part of that process is sweating the brand, being proud of it.
You know, we cop a little bit.
I'm sure there's a few people within our industry that death ride us a bit
because we're a bit out there and we sponsor this.
But we're very conservative with how we do things.
You know, all of our partnerships, we prepay them three years in advance,
two years in advance.
It's never we sign a contract for three years because, you know, your revenues
and your profit can dry up a little bit and you've got this long term commitment.
So the basis of any business is keep your fixed costs as low as you can
and your variables as high as you can.
So we never commit to anything that we don't prepay for in advance.
Little things like stationary.
You know, I think we have a seven year lease in this building.
Alan's got like five years of stationary supplies for this.
You know, while things are good, it's called straw hats in winter.
You know, squirrel it away.
And that's the value that he's added to the business, that managerial side.
So he's quite conservative in that regard.
You know, never lets me get too ahead of myself, which is good.
And it's just got a great culture.
As you can see, when you walk around, you know, we sweat the brand.
We're very proud of everything we do.
Our website probably is not everyone's cup of tea,
but it really shows who we are as an organisation.
No one has offices.
It's open platform right across the board.
You know, we're lucky to be here in Sydney and two floors.
Chiefly, chiefly tell we could have designed the offices.
I could have had a beautiful office with a boardroom off the side,
overlooking Sydney Harbour, all that sort of stuff.
Just didn't want to do that.
Would have loved to have, but I just it wasn't who we are.
So who stops you doing that?
Oh, it's probably a blend of both, to be honest.
We're interestingly enough, when we move from our premises,
we looked at level 27 or 28 or level 26.
So we went up to 28.
It's views all over the harbour.
I've made it. I have made it.
Went home that weekend.
We've got to make a choice.
Level six, no views, level 28 or 29 or whatever it was.
All over the harbour.
I'm just no brainer.
I'm going to have a big office.
I've got the Sydney Harbour.
All my friends are going to come up and be jealous, going to be unreal.
And I lost sleep all weekend.
Alan and I get together every morning at 7 p.m.
And our last phone calls every day at 7 to 7.30.
So we go over the numbers every night.
We meet every morning, most mornings at 7 to quarter past, have a coffee,
talk about what happened yesterday, what's happening tomorrow.
Where are we headed on Monday morning?
I said, I lost sleep all over the weekend.
He said, why is that, pal?
He calls everyone pal.
Why is that, pal?
And I said, well, I just feel that I'd love level 28 or 29 or whatever it was.
But I just don't think it's us.
I just I think that's other people.
That's what the American firms do or the European firms do.
I just think it's great to be in the number one building in the city.
But I think we just sort of keep our feet on the ground a little bit.
He said, I'm glad you're saying that.
I said, why is that?
He said, I lost sleep over the whole thing over the weekend as well.
Oh, great. Fantastic.
Let's sign for level six. No views. We're on.
That's what happened.
It wasn't about the rent or saving money.
It was just we just didn't think it was us.
And I think that's what's been quite humble about the journey
of what we've done over the last seven years.
It's been the most fulfilling seven years of probably my career.
Yeah, which I love to hear because you said not long ago
that you thought it was all over at 40 late 40s.
Yeah. So you've had the good stuff.
Well, I wasn't going to go and work for somebody else.
I had plenty of offers. People rang me and said, would you come and work for me?
Would you do this? Would you do that?
It was time to actually work for myself.
And I always sort of work for myself, even though I was with a firm.
I'd always done well financially, so I could always sort of, to be frank,
say, listen, you know, I'm going to do what I want to do.
But it was other people's money as opposed to this was our money.
So but it's been fantastic.
So you say you've been doing well financially.
I've said that a few times at what sort of stage were you comfy?
I've always had great ability to earn money.
I've always been I hate the word entrepreneurial,
but I've always been quite liberal in my thinking and one plus one.
How do you get it to make for not to make money?
Just because I like that building things. I like growing.
I don't like my feet being under the desk and boring.
And I've always been like that always.
And if you ask anybody here, I'm always traveling.
I'm always on a plane.
I'm always out seeing someone, visiting people, having dinner.
That's what I like to do.
So probably, I don't know, mid thirties, I was pretty comfortable.
You know, could I have retired?
What's retire and how well do you want to live?
I just don't think like that.
So I never sort of added up and said, yes, I can retire.
But certainly mid thirties, I've done pretty well.
My first property development at 30, a block of land in St Lucia,
built 12 units on it, as well as what I was doing.
Butchard, arguably the best site in St Lucia, I might add.
So I thought I knew everything about developing and it handed me my ass,
But be that as it may, went on and did multiple others and invested in others
and learned from it again.
Made a little bit of money, but should have made a lot more.
And was smart enough to go, gee, I really butchered that.
That was my fault.
Didn't do my homework.
Thought I knew everything about everything.
But there's money to be made in this game.
So how do we do it better next time?
So probably mid thirties.
And then, you know, mid forties, I was sort of, you know, everything was great.
And then, yeah, I mean, this wasn't about money for me.
It's been very financially lucrative, I might add.
It's been ridiculous, far more than I ever thought it would be.
But it had nothing to do with that.
I didn't come here for that.
I come here to create something, build something.
I love coming to work every day.
You know, it's hard because when it's not about money,
you've got to sit there and say, what's your mojo?
What keeps you motivated?
I love communicating.
I like doing shit.
So I just like, I love the environment we've got you for life.
You know, you and I fly into New York in August.
You know, I'm counting down the days.
So it's just, I mean, stuff like that.
You know, going to Darwin to see the supercars,
seeing one of the advisors' clients,
pitching for a new corporate transaction,
opening up a new office, refurbing an old office.
You know, changing some of the compliance regimes,
which is boring, but it's stimulating, right?
You have to work it out and crack the Rubik's Cube, right?
That's what you've got to do.
And business just keeps evolving and changing.
Technology has changed everything.
So you've got to keep rolling with it.
You can't bring some draconian view to the world.
So I've always been pretty good at that.
And that's why I love coming to work every day.
I just, and I like the challenge.
And I like losing a couple of times a year, right?
And then that happens.
You do lose, right?
You pitch, you lose, you learn from that.
That keeps the brain stimulated.
If you just win all the time, it's no good.
I can't imagine you not doing it.
Yeah, look, I say to myself that I'll review it when I'm 60.
I don't know what I'm going to be reviewing.
Yeah, well, you'll review it for five seconds.
Yeah, yeah, correct.
I think, I don't know, I think I owe it to myself at 60
to sit back and say what I want to do for the next 10 years.
I don't want to be the guy at 75 or 80
that's just old and past it.
And, you know, again, I think your philosophies change.
You know, for me, like I said before,
I'm a person that's a real people pleaser.
I like to please people.
And it's a losing game because you can't please everybody.
But when you, for me, when I was in my 20s and 30s,
and even my 40s, I was trying to please everyone.
And there's just 10%.
I don't know what the numbers are, 5, 10, 15% of people.
You're just never going to please.
You just, you could give them all the money
you had out of your pocket.
You still wouldn't please them.
I'm giving you everything, you know?
And you get nothing back.
I think the one thing that's probably really changed
for me in the last 10 years is,
and I think we've had this discussion,
going through the phone book and saying,
yeah, delete that person, delete that person.
Not because you want to delete the person
because they're horrible.
They're just, they're not adding any value to your life.
And for me, I look at it really simply.
I'm 57 years of age.
I've got 30 years left on the planet if I'm lucky.
I'm going to be pretty useless from 85 on, quite frankly.
So let's say I've got 20, 25 years,
really good valuable years.
I don't want to waste it.
So as I say to everybody in here,
mate, we don't want the dickhead factor.
And by the way, if you think I'm the dickhead,
Just go somewhere else because this is our place.
So go somewhere else.
And I think so we've, you know,
I've really made a conscious decision
in the last five or six, seven years.
I know I can't please everybody.
You know, there's a few people that I spent a lot of time with,
but they were sucking your air though.
You were always filling the tires.
They were negative on everybody.
Always, there's a joke about somebody else.
And when you sit back and look at it and say,
well, you've created nothing and done nothing yourself.
What are you bagging that bloke for?
And I'm hanging around you and that just can't be healthy.
Let's put some new oxygen in the air
and let's add some value
and let's do something a bit differently.
So I've made a real conscious effort
knowing that I can't please everybody
and that really upsets me, but that's life.
And you need to just push past that,
work with the people who you can add some value to
and reciprocity, they add value to you.
And it's paid great dividends for me in my own personal growth,
but it was a real conscious decision
five or six or seven years ago to do that,
which I'm the guy that tries to get 100% of the people.
No, well, that comes with maturity, right?
I think that's right.
I wish it came probably 15 years earlier.
Yeah, I think we could all do, but then that's life, isn't it?
You'd sort of, that's why it's so awesome
when you actually do crack it and you go,
okay, well, that's probably would have been a bit of info
I could have done with them in my 40s.
When you're someone like yourself,
do you pay your own bills?
Yes, I've got an accountant, Megan,
who's been with me for 20 years
and she looks after most of the stuff, to be frank.
If the question more is, am I across everything?
I'm across everything on the finances.
No question about it.
And that's that numbers thing for you?
Yeah, it's just, it's engagement.
I don't want to be there.
I like you're building something
or crowding something to know about it.
So it's not about counting the money and go,
this is our rich home.
So nothing to do with that.
It's got to do with, you just want to be across it.
And to me, that's like, that's just one of those things
that if I disengage, I'd have to question,
what am I doing it all for?
That's that engagement.
So I put the suit and tie on every day.
Ties went out 20 years ago.
Why do I wear a suit and tie every day?
To me, that's my battle armor.
That's what I do.
Friday's casual day, but during the week,
I've just always got to wear a suit and tie.
That's how I don't feel right.
Could I do it without a tie?
Of course, but that's how I've always been.
So it's a bit like being across all the numbers
and the bills and has the rent been paid
on certain properties and da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
Yeah, that's all part of the detail.
Do you think over the last five to seven years
in particular with Sean partners,
that you've become a better person?
No, I think I've always been a pretty good guy, to be honest.
I mean, I've had my days and I'm sure there's people out there
that'll probably say, that guy's a rat bag, right?
But I think I've always been a generally pretty good person.
I think I've always been, you know,
I get the comments from people say regularly,
geez, you're very generous.
I don't know if I'm generous.
I remember my accountant said to my mother in my early 20s,
I would love to be Earl's friend.
And she said, well, back in the good old days
where you could claim lunches.
Well, these lunches that I was talking to all of his mates to.
So I've always been that sort of person.
I like to pay for things.
I feel blessed that I've done, well,
financially I was always a good income earner.
So I just feel, you know, that's a bit of your obligation.
I don't know why, but that's the way I am.
I like to pay the bills.
I like to pay things.
I think I've always been the same person.
I'm matured and I've got better.
And I've got satisfaction out of things
that I never got satisfaction out of before.
I think I've been pretty much the same guy.
Well, I've certainly known you for a few years now
and I don't know anyone more generous than you.
There's a lot of generous people out there.
And believe me, you know,
there's nothing more closer to my heart than gotcha for life.
And if I get an opportunity to talk to people about it,
everyone, not one person would say
that it's not a good journey to be on.
But 99 people out of 100 still say no.
Like, it's interesting.
You know, I've had a few people say,
you know, I had some smart Alex out of me the other day,
you know, or Kerry Packer and Gina Reinhardt,
you know, they don't tell the money that they donate.
Well, neither do I either.
And I got a bit of a slag off for being on a committee
that raised $9 million.
And I was thrilled to be on it.
You sort of, again, they're the people
you just cut from your life.
And you're like oxygen thieves, right?
There's only so much oxygen in my tank, you need to go.
I get just so much satisfaction out of it.
You know, again, you know, if I die,
there'll be enough for the kids,
more than they'll ever have to worry about.
And I lose sleep over that, you know,
that if something happened to Katie and I tomorrow,
they're going to inherit very, very well.
And obviously, the world takes care of them,
their money getting at certain stages.
But I lose sleep over it, you know, like they're, you know,
25 and, you know, Jordan blows all the money
because he thinks he's a rock star
and you're different at 25 to 35.
But I always say, you know, if I give away 10 or 20%
or whatever the percentage is, I don't know,
whatever the number is, and, you know,
the odd dinner and lunch and donation and various things,
and sure, partners, you know,
whether we make 50 million or we make 45,
I'd rather make 40, quite frankly,
and have a bloody good time and put back into the community
and partner with good athletes and adventures
and travel and have a good time
rather than go to the grave of the richest guy.
I'm not going to be the richest guy in the grave.
And for the finite time I'm on the planet,
I'm having a bloody good time.
And if I've got to take people with me
that can't afford to do it, I'm okay with that.
I have no problem.
My value add is the money, you know,
your value add is your company,
and you're a great kid or great person,
and you're a great mate.
And we just took 14 people up to Hawaii,
you know, and we paid for most of it,
myself and a friend.
Looked fantastic on socials.
It was so good. It was unreal.
But anyway, you know, when you're in the retirement home
and hopefully you look back at a few pictures and say,
that's what it was all about.
So, Wells, for someone like you that has so much,
do you have any people that you admire
or any sort of history you look back on and go,
yes, that's who I want to be,
or that's who I admire and love?
Yeah, I'm not a big lover of fiction.
I love reading biographies.
So, many people I admire,
but I look at people like,
in the business world, Jamie DeMond.
So, started at Citibank,
had a very unconventional rock star,
numerically smart,
one of the smartest bankers around the world,
and was fired from Citibank,
so to some degree I relate.
He was a lot smarter than me.
But he's very open, he's very forthright,
he's very, he can be a little bit in your face,
and has sort of gone on
to be one of the great bankers in the world.
You know, he recovered, got a job,
but as the CEO of Bank One,
merged with JP Morgan,
which is arguably now 20 years as a CEO,
and he's one of the rock stars of our industry.
But anything I can read, see, anything like that.
Modern era, he's the go-to guy.
Great admiration for him.
And I think looking back at history,
and I look at things like Napoleon,
I'm a great reader of all of that sort of stuff.
You know, people say, oh, he was a dictator,
a little short French dictator.
You sort of go, no, I think he was a bit beyond that,
you know, like he came in and actually
sorted out the French Revolution.
That was one thing.
But he did so much that's still part of the world
that he's not actually recognised for.
You know, if you look at things like,
in France, slavery was a big issue.
He abolished slavery.
Equal opportunity for what it was worth back in that era.
He was very strong on that.
He completely re-engineered the education system.
So in his era, 250 years ago,
you didn't have to go and get educated.
So if your parents just wanted you to stay on the farm
and not work, that's where you stayed.
And you were born a peasant,
you were going to die a peasant,
and he brought in legislation
that every child had to go to school
up to, you know, 11 or 12 years of age,
which back then was just like mind-numbing,
big bold thinking.
You know, when he sorted out the revolution
and came in as the head,
you know, he completely re-engineered all the military,
brought the pride back into it,
put a lot of money into the arts.
If you just look at the legal system,
there's a lot of the legal system now in France
and in Europe that he actually indoctrinated
into the structure, into the system.
So completely overhauled the legal system.
I mean, crazy things like the Jewish people in Europe
largely were ostracized during his time.
They had to go around with black bands to say they were Jewish,
which is like extraordinary when you think about it.
He abolished that in France when he was in power.
A lot of them lived in geckos,
they had no money, they were uneducated.
He actually put forward a paper
that actually said the Jews should have their own territory.
You know, Israel, years before it actually happened,
he made them citizens of France.
So people like that,
and there's many of them in history,
we're going to land a man on the moon
and we're going to do it by the end of the decade.
You know, they're big, bold, risky, challenging statements
that you could land largely on the back side.
And, you know, by the end of the decade,
there we are, landing a man on the moon.
Now you just drive up there.
But back then, that was a big, big, big statement.
So that's the stuff.
They're the people that I, you know,
lots of people like that, Winston Churchill,
anything like that, they're the people I admire.
And I love the history.
And I think the history really of the globe is the future, right?
The past really dictates where we're going.
History repeats itself time and time again.
So I love reading biographies and learning a lot from it.
So there's a few names anyway.
Yeah, we haven't got a lot of time.
So let's do this.
Let's go quickly.
Let's do the Fast Five.
Your favourite quote?
I've probably got a couple.
So I'll say a few.
I thought you might.
Right, hard and never fear the spill.
So I always look forward.
I just never look back.
You see, you've got to keep going forward.
You know, our foundation,
we came up with a slogan,
but I just personally, it's a motto of my life.
And that's, you know, live life, have fun and give back.
And if you break that down, you have to live your life.
You've got to have a shitload of fun doing life
because you're here for a finite time.
And I think it's so fulfilling to put in and to actually give.
It's been one of the most fulfilling things
that I've done in my life in the last 20 years
is to actually contribute and put back in every part
of putting back into society.
Whether that's money, time, effort, charitable days,
whatever it might be.
It's grounded me as a person in the last 20 years.
Anything in the 80s I love.
So it's very hard to pick any of the 80s films.
Have you watched the new one yet?
It's the best. I saw it twice.
I'm going on Sunday.
The best. Rock Hudson.
Elizabeth Taylor.
Three hour masterpiece.
The Great Escape.
Oh, one of the greats.
Most people serve Shawshank Redemption.
It's right up there.
But like it's, you know, again, anyway,
different era, different time.
Favorite holiday destination.
Anywhere we get on a plane and go.
I mean, I've been to Hawaii a million times.
I've been around the world a million times.
I've been to lots of places.
So I'm very privileged.
Do you like to go in the door and left or upstairs?
Short story. I know we've got time.
I didn't travel until I was 30.
I was dedicated to working and saving and investing
and not spending.
So I never went overseas up until 30.
Kate hated me for it.
But I said, we are not going overseas and spending any money.
From 30 virtually to 40, I only travel economy.
And that was more of a discipline on myself.
I could have traveled first class,
but it was a discipline on myself.
I wanted to stay hungry, stay focused, think poor.
And so I traveled virtually economy.
Katie hated me for that as well.
She's put up with a lot.
That's what I'm saying.
She's super supportive.
Definitely hasn't had the best sort of partnership.
And life's been OK for me.
And look, in recent times, if I can travel first,
obviously, like anybody, you're privileged to do it.
It's outrageously expensive.
What's it like up there?
It's bloody good.
No, it's not bad.
But look, to be frank, 90% is business.
I'm going to Dallas and I'm flying up business
and I'm flying back business.
So most of the time, it's business.
If I can get a bump up to first or if it's on special,
I can pay a little bit extra and get up there.
You're going up for the caviar and champagne.
Why wouldn't you?
Why wouldn't you?
That would be great.
One day, one day.
Hate anything that's not factual.
So I love biographies.
Harry Potter, all that sort of stuff, have no interest.
That's for the movie.
So favorite book is a book that was written many years ago,
Reminiscence of a Stock Operator.
So for anyone that's in markets, it's a 30, 40-year-old book,
but the principles of investing are still exactly the same,
a little bit like anything that Warren Buffett writes.
You can sort of take that and put in your pocket and make a gospel.
So yeah, Reminiscence of a Stock Operator.
I only just read it six months ago.
I read it about eight times.
And I'm not sure if we're doing the charity
because you give so much money anyway.
We do have to do the charity.
Again, just on a final note,
I was part of a committee that raised nine million dollars.
I did a little bit of that,
but the predominant was done by all of the other committee members
and it was super fulfilling,
raised nine million dollars for the Sydney Children's Hospital.
Josh Penn and his mother Linda were the chairs of it,
did a phenomenal job.
That was very fulfilling for me.
We give to multiple other charities across the board,
but again, you become a great maid
and I think what you're doing around mental health
and just the awareness of it is just quite amazing, I think.
And for charities like yours,
and there are a number of them that are in that mental health space,
probably need more funding and probably need more focus
because it's such an important part.
We were just talking about it before with, you know,
breakdown in your health, how quickly it can affect your mind.
So Gotcha For Life.
Thanks a lot, mate.
And thank you so much for everything you've done.
Sorry for yapping so much.
I mean, just a moment for me just to thank you
on behalf of Gotcha For Life,
but also just personally as well how you've backed me
and backed Gotcha For Life.
It's been extraordinary to meet someone in your
sort of late 40s, 50s and find someone so important in your life
only a few years on, so.
So listen, you try to keep it real the best you can.
We're only here for a finite time, so make the best of it, as you know.
And I think, as I said, giving back has been a really gift in my life
and in Katie's life and in Alan's life and in your own partner's life.
We started the foundation seven years ago.
It's been awesome.
How much money in total do you know?
It was actually raising, you know, the first five years
we gave away three million dollars.
And so we had a goal of ten million in ten years.
That was our goal.
I think we're close to ten million now.
Like it's been extraordinary.
So we gave three million dollars away in the first five years
and in the last two, we've given away about five or six.
So it's been extraordinary.
Alan and I give a lot of our own money away as well.
We donate quite a bit personally.
Whatever I put in.
How does that make you feel?
That's another thing I'll just quickly.
You're in for 20 grand or you're in for 50 or whatever it might be.
You just say, hey, you're in for it as well.
He just blinks and goes, OK, OK.
Because he trusts you.
And he also knows that he's probably going to get some love.
Again, he's a quiet guy.
But he gets immense amount of satisfaction out of it.
And I've watched him grow and develop as a human and as a person.
And he would be the first to say, oh, I never donated.
Before I met you, I never donated a cent.
Don't look at other people that did.
Yeah, good for them.
I'm not giving my money away.
And he, I think, has found it incredibly fulfilling.
And he's been on this path that I've been on.
And again, we've been very lucky.
We've done very, very well for ourselves.
And yeah, so when I say to him, mate, I'm 10, 20, 30, whatever I've been.
I've been there at a lunch where you've gone, oh, by the way, we're doing this.
We had Freddie Fittler at a lunch.
And you said, oh, yes, we want to support you going around to all these schools and
into colleges to talk to kids about leadership.
And you put together a pack for them.
And I think it was $50,000.
And I was going to ask you for half.
And you said, oh, yeah, I'm in for half.
And I was in for half.
So the 50 was done.
And Brad Fittler's sitting there going, what's just happened?
This is not the normal lunch.
I would look at two things of that.
So he would walk.
First, we'd say, am I in for half, pal?
And say, yeah, you're in for half.
And as we're walking away, go, you know, we were just at a lunch with Brad Fittler.
Yeah, Brad Fittler said, do you know who he is, Earl?
I've got a bit of an idea who he is.
Yeah, he's a great, footy legend.
But Earl, we just had lunch with him.
And then when we get to the office, he go, do you think we should give him a bit more?
That's what he's like.
And a lot of people don't get to say that.
He's a great human being.
Well, I've got the brand new hoodie for him today.
So he'll have it in his office right now.
He'll be sleeping in it.
No worries at all.
Thanks again for everything.
Thanks very much.
A big thank you to Shaw and Partners Financial Services who have generously supported this
podcast and also donated $10,000 to the charity of choice of each of our guests to thank them
Shaw and Partners are an Australian investment and wealth management firm who manage over
$28 billion of assets under advice.
With seven offices around Australia, Shaw and Partners act for and on behalf of individuals,
institutions, corporates, and charities.
For more info, you can check out their website at shawandpartners.com.au.
That's S-H-A-W for Shaw.
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