Bronnie Taylor A Switch In Gears A Switch In Careers

Hi, I'm Keisha Pettit and this is Not An Overnight Success brought to you by Shor and Partners Financial Services.

This is a podcast where we sit down with some very successful people from the world of business, entertainment and sport

and we chat about their life's journey and what got them to the position that they're in today.

Now I'm just stepping in for the introduction today as unfortunately Gus has had to spend a couple of days in hospital

but the good news is that he's on the mend and we got to sit down and record this episode with Bronny Taylor beforehand.

So in today's episode we are chatting with Bronny Taylor.

Bronny Taylor is the Minister for Women, Regional Health and Mental Health in New South Wales as well as the Deputy Leader of the Nationals.

She comes from a nursing and farming background and she's got a whole lot more personality than what you might be used to in Australian politics.

In this chat we speak about Bronny's life before politics, her interesting upbringing and her family life.

We talk about what it is actually like being a politician in Australia and how that has deeply affected her family.

We touch on female representation within the Australian Parliament and where Bronny believes we can improve.

Bronny and Gus share a really special passion for mental fitness and you'll hear all about why she has that passion in this chat.

As for all of these podcasts, Sure and Partners have generously donated $10,000 to the charity of choice of each of our guests.

We discuss who that money goes to in this chat. Let's get into our chat with Bronny Taylor.

Bronny, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

I'm great. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited.

It's really good to have you on board and if people don't know you, they should look you up because you're a politician that wears your heart on your sleeve.

And you got to it quite late and we'll get to that in a moment.

What were you like as a kid growing up, Bronny?

I was pretty loud and boisterous. So I grew up overseas.

So my dad worked for Qantas, so zero to six in New York and then international schools in Bangkok and the Philippines.

So I had a really broad American accent and I was very un-Australian, which really upset my father because he used to put a flagpole in every new country we lived in and fly the Aussie flag every day.

Very proud Australian. So to have these American speaking daughters was really traumatic for him.

So look, I had an amazing childhood. I had a lot of fun. I lived in lots of different countries. I loved it. I loved sport. I loved everything.

It was a really happy time for me.

I was in an international school as well in Tokyo. My dad was setting up Travelodge hotels around the world and he worked for Qantas before that.

So we've got something in common there.

We were Qantas babies.

We were. I remember one of my best mates from Sweden and we still contact each other now.

We spent a lot of time not knowing each other. And I remember his name was Kiki.

And I said to Kiki, I wrote him on Facebook, how are you going? What have you been up to and so forth?

And he basically wrote out a list of his achievements and he'd done so well in everything.

Annie was married to the show. I felt like, okay, I'm not going to tell you what I got up to.

Have you got any mates from that old time of being in international school?

Yeah. And I think that's one of the great things about social media and Facebook and things is that you can connect and you can sort of talk to people.

And that's been really fun to sort of follow up and do that.

And a lot of the people that I was in school with in Bangkok had sort of they stayed on.

And I came down to boarding school in Sydney. So that was a bit different.

So I lost contact and, you know, I couldn't understand when I started at school down here why I couldn't have my curling wand and wear my blue eye shadow.

So in year nine. So it was a bit of a shock.

But yeah, still still catch up and still see them obviously online and things. So that's really nice.

What was your family like? What's your family makeup?

So I have one sister, one older sister and mum and dad.

My dad was a Queenslander and he married mum who was a girl from the eastern suburbs.

I think he had to ask about four times before mum's family permitted the marriage, you know, those days when you actually did what your parents said.

Yeah. Yeah. And as I said, dad was a bit of a larrikin.

So there's a book about all the people that worked in Qantas and dad features quite extensively, I think.

And he loved politics and loved all this.

So it was really hard for me because when I finally got in and when I did something, he wasn't around.

He died of pancreatic cancer. You know, that was tough.

But I'm sure that he got it. He's got a good laugh.

And actually, dad's highlight was when I got interviewed by Ray Hadley.

Dad used to carry around that jolly radio, you know, with him continuously.

And we did a big dancing with the stars down in Kuma when we were raising money for our oncology unit.

And Ray wanted to do an interview with me.

And honestly, dad was so proud. I thought he was going to burst. So hilarious.

So cute. Yeah. So cute. So, yeah. And mum's mum's amazing.

So my mother is this uber athlete. She played tennis for New South Wales.

She's like a size six and like I'm like a lot bigger than a size six.

And so what do you call I'm a larger style of girl cast.

But, you know, it's just so funny. So isn't genetics a funny thing?

So anyway, it's happened to my children. They seem to have inherited mum's physical prowess.

So so that's good for them. But yeah, you know, a good happy childhood, a very different childhood, but a really happy one.

Yeah. What was your dad doing at Qantas?

So dad was like a manager for North America when we're based in New York and then obviously the site manager in Bangkok and in the Philippines.

Wow. That sounds like an awesome, absolutely awesome job.

And that was when Australia, I mean, I'm very proud of Qantas anyway,

but I just remember getting on Qantas planes like in the 70s and 80s.

And it was like you jumped into a surf life saving carnival because all the all the blokes

and the girls would just knock about. You'd have the old daddy telegraph from the day before that they'd flown into the country with.

And you felt as if you were on Aussie soil as soon as you got on that plane. It's not quite the same today.

No, you're so true. And they really looked after us.

I mean, there was a whole department in Qantas that looked after the kids of of the parents who were working overseas.

And we were so well looked after and cared for. And it was just it was an incredible time.

And yeah, I don't think it is quite the same, unfortunately.

But yeah, what a wonderful organization they treated. My father worked for them.

He started off working for them in New Guinea. He he grew up over there.

And he worked for them from when he was 17 until when he left because, you know, he sort of had to go.

And he just absolutely lived and breathed that organization.

And those were incredible times. And I feel really privileged to have been part of it.

Absolutely. So you went through school, Eastern Suburbs.

Were you a princess or were you a knockabout? Because you're a knock.

I would call you a knockabout now. Have you changed into a knockabout or were you always?

Look, I think, you know, we went to school up on the North Shore.

So Qantas actually had an arrangement with Pimbal with PLC.

And they actually would take Qantas children really quickly because my mom actually had gone to a school in the Eastern Suburbs.

But they weren't so keen on taking my sister.

No reflection on her, I'm sure.

Well, I think, you know, everyone sort of like to try and make it, you know, a bit difficult, didn't they?

So we went off to Pimbal and that was really fantastic for me.

And look, my mother could have dinner with President Marcos in the Philippines one night

and she would be out helping her golf caddy sick child the next.

So we were very grounded and we were very much made to realize just how jolly lucky we were.

So I think I've always had a lot of bogan in me, Gus, and I wear that with pride.

And I've got a husband who keeps me very grounded as well.

So, you know, I like to think that I love people.

I find people really interesting and it's not one certain type of person.

But I think the greatest thing you can do is that someone is that you can sit there at a boardroom dinner and be able to engage.

But you can also go and do whatever needs to be done.

And, you know, it was why I loved going back out and vaccinating during COVID because that's what I do.

And that's who I am.

And that's never going to change.

So, yeah.

That's really lovely.

Let's talk about your family before we go back and talk about you getting into nursing.

You're married to a farmer out in the Cooma area of New South Wales.

If people want to look that up, it's a beautiful part of the world, you know, near the snowy mountains, I suppose the best way to describe it.

How did you guys meet?

Was it love at first sight?

What was it like for you?

So I'm really boring.

I married my year 12 former partner.

Okay.

You knew.

You knew.

I knew Gus.

I knew.

So I'll tell you a funny story.

So we'd been down at the pub.

I'm sure I was of age with a girlfriend and we, you know, schlepped it from the train and we'd gone down there.

And I'd heard about this bloke and I'd heard that, you know, he was school captain about where he was.

He doesn't like it when I tell the story because he thinks it makes me sound shallow.

But I'd heard that he was really terrific bloke and that everyone really liked him.

And, you know, and I thought, I just can't wait to meet this guy.

And I might have said to a couple of girlfriends, I'm going to meet this guy and I'm going to go to his school formal with him.

Right.

You know, a bit out there, a bit presumptuous anyway.

Confident.

I did.

Anyway, I met Duncan and I just adored him.

And apparently I came home that night and I said to my girlfriend's mum, I'm going to marry him, which would have horrified him if he knew.

But I just thought he was so fabulous.

And look, I knew he was from the country, but I didn't understand rural life at all because I hadn't grown up with it.

You know, I'd grown up overseas.

I didn't have any relatives that were country people.

And so for me, that was a very, very different world.

And he never told me that he wanted to go home and work on the farm.

He was doing, he did echo law at uni and he's pretty clever and he was, you know, doing extremely well.

And I'm thinking, oh, happy days.

And then he sort of said, we went out for a long time, like, you know, from 18 to 26.

And he said, Bron, I really want to move back to the family farm.

He'd been working in a big law firm in Sydney.

He said, I really want to be in our own business.

I want to be able to raise our family.

You know, what do you think?

And I was like, well, I've been going out with you for eight jolly years.

You know, I could have to give it a whirl, aren't I?

Was that really the first time that you got that inkling that he wanted to go back to the country?

Yeah, I really had no inkling that he wanted to go back.

And it wasn't until he said that to me that I thought, wow, he's really serious about this.

But to be honest, I didn't think he'd stay.

And I know that they still kept his name on the letterhead where he was working at Minter Ellison at the time,

because I thought, I think they thought this guy's amazing.

He's going to come back. He's not going to stay.

And, you know, Duncan's first job was digging a 6.5 kilometre trench to get water to the house that we were living in,

that, you know, had had cows living in it for the previous 40 years.

So you can imagine my parents not happy, Jan, about the scenario.

And I must say, to be really honest with you, I found it really difficult moving back to the farm.

I was pretty lonely and I used to go into town.

And I remember after I had my first daughter, Hannah, and I was at home because I'd left work and everything,

that I'd almost just go in and walk the main street of Cooma just to see people,

because I just I'm not one of those people who can go into town once a week, do the shopping and be quite content at home.

And also I was useless on the farm.

So when we first got back, Duncan took me out one time, we're going land marking.

And I thought, I can do this. I'm pretty tough.

I'm pretty, you know, I know what to do. I'm my father's daughter.

And, you know, I'll get out there and tag the sheep and whatever needs to be done.

Anyway, I passed out in the sheepyards, like so embarrassing, right?

Why?

I don't know. Like it was blood, but I'm used to blood. I'm a nurse, right?

It was just ridiculous. And I don't know, I think it was really hot.

And I think I might have been just pregnant.

But I just anyway, pulled me down, shoved me under a tree, not many trees on the Monero.

And I woke up and I just thought, oh, man, like, this is not me. I have to have my own identity.

I have to do my own thing. He was always really supportive of that.

And I'm just so glad that I did nursing because it gave me an incredible career.

And I reckon I wouldn't be where I am if I hadn't moved to the country

because the opportunities that it presented for me

and the way that it allowed me to step up when I saw those opportunities

have created further things along the tracks.

So, you know, it was just one of those things.

And I think it's really, I think, you know, people talk about how important it is for women to work.

But for me, it was really important for my own identity, my own mental health and my own ability.

I'm just so grateful that I had that as a profession.

Did you literally start it and go, this is for me?

Or was it a battle? How did that whole nursing thing come about?

Yeah, it was weird. You know, you have those careers nights at school.

Well, this girl came in, Edwina Saunders, and she'd been nursing, doing cancer nursing over in the UK.

And I was just completely blown away and thought, that's what I want to do.

I mean, I'll be honest with you, Gus, I didn't have a huge amount of choice with my ATAR.

I just got to put that out there, right?

So that was the second intake of nursing into university.

And I was the first member of my family to go to uni.

So dad had never been, mum, no, my sister, no.

So, you know, I just knew that's what I wanted. And I loved it from the beginning.

I just loved it. And I loved cancer nursing.

I worked for Sydney Home Nursing Service in Sydney.

And I started caring for people with cancer and I'd go into their homes and do that.

And I just, I absolutely loved it. And I still do.

I still really see myself as a nurse, not a politician.

But then that's probably easy for people to understand, right?

Like, what would you pick nurse politician?

So for you, you get into your nursing, everything's going well with the big fella.

You've got your man, you've trapped him, he's your fella.

Claws are in.

Claws are in, so everything seems to be rocking along beautifully.

You're then in Kuma.

Things are going on there and you're like, right, I need to do my nursing.

But what point do you go, actually, I'm not going to nurse anymore.

I'm going to be a politician.

Like, it's a bit of a leap.

Yeah, yeah.

And look, I didn't really understand Australian politics because I hadn't grown up with it, right?

So I really wasn't that interested.

Moving to where we live, which is part of the state seat of Monero and the federal seat of Eden Monero,

is a very marginal seat.

They call it the bellwether seat because it tends to swing with government.

So it suddenly became interesting to follow politics.

But look, Gus, I wasn't someone that always voted one way.

Very much voted on who the person was and what I saw that they could do for that community.

But for me, when I was nursing and I was looking after cancer patients,

I was pretty staggered at the sort of level of care that my patients had access to and I thought it was wrong.

I knew that there were a lot of services that we couldn't do locally.

And I think that's really important.

We don't want everybody doing everything in every single hospital because you're not going to get the best outcomes.

Because if you break your leg in three places, do you want someone to reset that,

that maybe does that kind of break four times a year or 400 times a year?

So that's something that we have to get a better understanding around.

But what I did know was that my patients, I knew we could deliver certain types of chemotherapy safely and effectively.

And I wanted to see my patients be able to drop their kids at school, have their treatment,

be around for when they were home at night instead of having to.

People used to say, oh, Canberra's only an hour away.

Well, it's not if you lived at Delegate on the Victorian border.

And it wasn't if you lived in Thredbo and we had a snow event and everything else.

And those one and a half, two, three hour trips one way made a big difference.

And also country people often don't like driving in major cities as well.

And so if I had to have treatment and you were my partner or my friend,

you also had to take the day off to take me.

And all of those things have cumulative effects on your community.

So I said to the health district, we really need to try and have an oncology service here.

And it's something we could do their response.

No, Bronnie, read the code of conduct.

Bronnie, stop talking to your local radio.

Bronnie, stop making mischief.

Bronnie read the code of conduct.

And I just thought this is really wrong.

It's fundamentally wrong.

I know we can do this.

And we have this really great group of women called the Monero Committee for Cancer Research.

And they are a fundraising group.

And they had been really, really successful in fundraising.

And I was at a meeting one day as the cancer nurse and they said, Bronnie, what do we need?

And I said, we need an oncology clinic.

And a lady there who's still a wonderful mentor of mine to this day said to me, right,

well, that's what we're going to do.

We're going to fundraise for an oncology clinic.

How much is that worth?

Well, we raised in excess of a million dollars over two years in a population of 8,000, catchment probably 12.

So that's pretty massive.

How did you do that?

We did Kuma's Dancing with the Stars and I was Sonia Kruger.

OK.

I know. Can you imagine?

I can.

Yeah. God, I wish I looked like her.

I mean, isn't she a rock star anyway?

She goes all right.

She goes all right.

Yeah.

So we just did that.

And that's the thing.

Country people are so amazing.

And they just got behind it.

And I had this incredible bunch of patients at the time that really got behind it and really told their stories.

And so it was just an incredible thing to be part of.

And it still goes to this day.

Every second year, they do some type of dancing extravaganza or something and people love it.

And so then from that, I had this patient called Susan Mitchell.

And Susan had pancreatic cancer and it was advanced.

And so we knew that it wasn't going to be a long term thing.

And I'd go into her place and I was a bit scared because she was quite a stalwart in the community and quite fierce.

And like you know, she took on the wild dog problem in the national parks and she made them tremble in the Senate estimates committee that she went to.

And she was also a really big person in the national party.

So I went in thinking, all right, here we go.

And, you know, let's talk about your pain.

How are you feeling?

What can we do?

You know, she said, I don't want to talk about that.

I want to talk about you.

And I went, no, no, no, not here to talk about me.

And she said, I think you'd be fantastic.

I think you should run.

And I said, oh, that's just, you know, anyway, she worked on me, worked on me.

Then I got approached by the Nats.

And I guess the rest is history.

So you are then sort of thrown this idea.

Did it shock you to initially?

Did you like sort of just wave it off?

Or did you go, actually, I quite like the thought of doing that.

Like, what was your first mindset?

And when you went home to the big fellow at home and Duncan and said, babe, I might be running for New South Wales government.

What did he say?

Look, I did buff it off at first.

I thought, how ridiculous.

And when this politician, Melinda Pavey, had approached me and said, look, you know, we'd like to look at you running for the seat of Monero.

I just thought how ridiculous.

Went home.

I said to Duncan, you are never going to friggin believe what's happened to me today.

And he said, I reckon that sounds fantastic, Bron.

I reckon you'd be great.

I was just like, really?

And then your ego takes over a bit, right?

And you think, oh, you know, they want me to run.

I must be a bit fabulous.

And so, yeah, that's that's sort of how it started.

And then Mel sent me a message that night following up after she'd met me for a coffee, saying, I'm just here with John Howard having dinner.

I just think you'd be great.

And, you know, you think a bit like, oh, wow, they're hog-noggin it.

And then I thought, well, what can I do?

But it had a bit of a weird twist to it because they had originally approached me to run for the lower house seat of Monero.

But unbeknownst to me, they'd also approached a bloke called John Barilaro in Queenbyum.

So John and I were at loggerheads to start with because we were up against each other.

You're mates now, aren't you?

He's one of my dearest friends and I just adore him.

He's like a brother to me.

And we repaired that relationship.

And also, I decided to run for the upper house.

So he was going to run for the lower house.

I ran for the upper house.

I lost abysmably, abominably, I should say is the correct word, my first go at that.

Because the National Party don't like people to just come in from nowhere and think they're going to get on the ticket.

And that was a real mistake of mine.

And I learnt a lot.

So I went around, I did this big road trip around New South Wales talking to all the central councillors of the National Party, which is what you need to do.

And I thought a lot of people had told me they were going to vote for me.

So I thought I was a dead cert.

What was it like that voting day, polling day?

It was terrible.

It was just terrible.

My daughter was there.

You know, everyone was expecting me to all my supporters were expecting me to get on the ticket.

I remember leaving home thinking, wow, when I come back and I told everyone at work at Kuma Hospital, I won't be here because I'm going to be in the upper house in New South Wales Parliament for the New South Wales National Party.

And then I had to come back with my tail between my legs.

And it was absolutely, completely and utterly humiliating.

But I had to make a choice, Gus.

And I was really upset and really angry about it because I felt that, you know, people had told me one thing and done the other.

So I think I got blooded pretty well.

But then as Duncan said to me, he said, look, you can either get really annoyed and be in a really bad mood and be negative.

Or he said, you can run again next time.

And I think it was in my early 40s.

And I said to him, oh, I'll be too old.

He said, oh, he said, that's just pathetic.

What a pathetic excuse.

And so at that moment, and I remember it vividly because I was in the laundry and I was slamming stuff everywhere.

It was the day after the preselection.

And he said it came in and we had a bit of a chat.

And I thought, you know what?

No, I really want to do this.

And I know I've got a contribution to make.

So I set about making sure that I contributed, making sure that I worked within the party to do what I needed to do.

And then I had a phenomenal response to that.

And then I went into the upper house.

How long between sort of slamming, you know, in the laundry and dunks and come on to the point where you actually decided to run again and then got in?

What was that?

So it was 48 hours of wallowing and feeling sorry for myself.

And then everyone had had enough in the family.

So then I decided I'm going to fight.

I'm going to fight for this.

And then it was about three and a half years.

Yes, three and a half years of really committing to it.

And obviously you learned some lessons.

I learned some lessons.

I ran for local government and a by-election as well as an independent because the Nats don't run people in local government elections, which I really support.

I actually think that party politics at the local government level is not conducive for good local government.

So I did that and that was really good for me.

I just worked really hard and I proved myself and I proved myself to all of those hundred and two people that voted for me the next time.

So you get in.

What was that moment like when you actually knew that you were going into the parliament?

Like, was it over early or did you have to?

Was it like on a knife's edge to eight o'clock at night?

Or can you tell us about that?

Yes. So in the upper house, you get on the ticket.

And because I got on one of the top two spots, I was number two on the ticket, which is pretty unheard of because two of us had actually been there.

Two of us had actually beat existing city members who'd been there for eight years.

So we knew we were going to get in.

So that was the moment.

It was that night when I just thought, oh, my goodness, I've done it.

This is incredible.

And that was when I missed my dad because I just thought, oh, I just wish you were here to see this.

And then the election came and I worked pretty hard in the seat of Monero as well.

So we'd done a really tough campaign and then we got in.

And yet it's euphoric when you win and when you know that you're going to be in government and then the responsibility hits you.

You know what? We've got to really make sure this works.

And I came in at a time that was really tough in the bush.

You know, it was still we were deep in drought and, you know, the fires hadn't yet come.

And so it has been quite those first four years in that first term of parliament were really tough having to tackle all those issues.

And suddenly you're responsible for it.

Like, it's great when you're outside and when you're running for something because you can talk about everything that's wrong.

But then when you're there, you've actually got to do something about it.

Yeah.

Just quickly interrupting the episode to say a very big thank you to the sponsor of this podcast.

And that is Sure and Partners Financial Services.

Sure and Partners are an Australian investment and wealth management firm who manage over $28 billion of assets under advice.

With seven offices across Australia, Sure and Partners act for and on behalf of individuals, institutions, corporates and charities.

For more info, you can check out their website at SureAndPartners.com.au.

That's S-H-A-W for sure.

Sure and Partners Financial Services, your partners in building and preserving wealth.

And let's get back into the episode.

Well, what was it like for your family to understand that?

And did you go through with the kids about, you know, mum's going to now be a public figure and all that?

Or did they just get behind you or did they try to talk you out of it?

Or what was that discussion like?

You know, I think because Duncan is so supportive, I think that, you know, reflects onto the girls.

And so I have two girls.

I have Hannah and Holly and Hannah's a journo.

And so that's progressively become, you know, a little bit challenging at times.

Holly was still at school.

She was just in her final years of school.

So we just had the discussion that, look, I'm not going to be around as much as I used to be,

but I'm going to do everything that I can to be there for you.

And I really made my staff know that they're an absolute priority.

But there were things that I couldn't get to that I had been really involved in their school and a lot of things.

But, you know, I was really fortunate, Gus, because my girls were quite grown up before I went into parliament.

I really admire women who do that when their kids are little because it's really tough.

And, you know, I know people love to bag out politicians and they all think we're lazy.

And, you know, a lot of people have really negative perceptions of us.

But, you know, I worked as a nurse for 20 years and I have never worked as hard as what I do now.

And I love it. And I'm really happy to.

But, you know, I am away a lot.

And that is really hard on, you know, we talk about wanting more female representation,

but we don't have those discussions about why women aren't choosing to go in.

And I think that we do have to have those discussions.

And I love now that, you know, someone will run into my journo daughter and, you know,

they might have a bit of a crack and she'll sort of turn around and say,

well, I'm actually really proud of mum and she actually had a great conversation last night.

And she said that to me.

And, you know, that really means a lot because, you know, you've got children and you just,

everything revolves around wanting them to be the best version of themselves.

And if they can see you, my eldest daughter is a real feminist and is very progressive.

And so she loves it when I do progressive things.

She doesn't so much like it when I do more core National Party things sometimes.

Whereas my other daughter, Holly, is quite conservative.

So I said to Duncan, what happened?

You know, and he said, he said, look, we need to take this as a really positive reflection on our parenting

in that, you know, we haven't made them be anything and they're who they are.

But I'm hoping they both end up in the middle.

That sensible center.

Yes, that's right.

I love the fact that you just got up and had a go because there's plenty of people in this country

that have things to say, but not a lot that have the action that goes behind it.

Have you always been that type of person that once you decided on something, that's it?

I think so.

And I think I was always encouraged to do that.

You know, one thing dad did very early on with me was I did a lot of public speaking.

So, you know, I'd be locked in rooms having to do speeches at mum's.

You know, the parties my parents used to throw overseas and dad always wanted a speech

and I would always be the one to deliver those speeches.

And he wasn't the speech guy.

No, he handed it over to Braun.

He handed it over to Braun.

And so I think that gave me a sense of confidence.

But yeah, look, I've always had a sense of social justice and I've always had a sense of what needs to be fair.

And I think maybe growing up in Asia has really had a formative effect on me because I have seen life.

Dad used to say life is cheap sometimes in Asia, and that's a really terrible thing.

What do you think he meant by that?

I just think that he meant that, you know, the services weren't there and the, you know, things like,

I mean, I remember when one of mum's, the guys that used to carry, you know, the golf bags, the caddies,

and one of his children had pneumonia and she was just going to die because they couldn't afford

to get the antibiotics to put her into hospital.

I mean, that just doesn't happen in Australia.

And it wasn't until mum intervened and, you know, all those sorts of things that I grew up with,

knowing that there were people that really were doing it tough, gave me a sense of what's fair and what's not.

And yeah, look, I have always, I have always been pretty, pretty out there.

I do sort of stand up and say what I think, but I think that's important.

And I think that's why people like you so much.

I think that's why you're in a position you're in at the moment, because you're intelligent,

but you wear your heart on your sleeve.

And that's what I've found about you straight away.

What do you reckon your dad would have said that night when you're actually locked and loaded and you're in parliament?

It's a magic moment for you and you would have thought about him a lot.

What do you reckon he would have said?

I reckon he would have said bloody beauty, Bron.

You're a bloody ripper, Bronnie.

Yeah, yeah.

That's so beautiful.

What's it actually like to be a politician?

Like, you've got a bit of a staff.

Now you're deputy head.

You're the most powerful woman in New South Wales government.

Sounds so crazy.

That's true.

What's it like?

And is it what you thought it was going to be?

Yeah, no, it's not what I thought it would be.

I think, I think for me, honestly, and I don't want to say, I never, ever, ever thought this would happen to me, Gus.

I really didn't.

And so for me, there's a lot of that, sometimes that imposter syndrome where I really have to step it up, you know,

and I think you need to I need to be really honest about that too.

And I had no idea what I was in for, to be honest.

And I think for me, one of the hardest things was when I became a minister,

you suddenly become the big fat sort of wild pig in hunting season when you become a minister because it's all about a scalp.

And I'm not saying any side is any better than the other.

But I had I had some people that really didn't like me when I came into parliament.

And I don't know if that's because I had blonde hair and I wear pearls and I married to a farmer.

So that's sort of a stereotype that some people don't like.

I don't know whether it's because my brother-in-law is a federal member of parliament and has a portfolio and energy

which can often cause people to become very divided.

But the attack on me personally, when I first came in, so there was a guy in the opposition and he used to not call me my name.

He'd call me Hyacinth, you know, that show, Keeping Up Appearances.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because like I was yes.

Because, you know, he just thought that I was this snooty sort of rural elite sort of.

I mean, there's nothing about me or who I am, but just really judged me and just wanted to get under my skin.

And I found that really hard.

And then when I would speak to people about it, I'd say, look, it's really unacceptable.

What he's doing and what he's calling me and what he's saying, that's, oh, you need to toughen up, Ronnie.

Not tough enough. Not tough enough for politics.

This is what happens. And it's like, well, actually, no, the behavior is really wrong.

The behavior is really bad. And so that was really hard for me.

And one day I just got up in the chamber and I just let it rip at him.

I'd been waiting, waiting, waiting to do it.

And there was a guy called Mike Gallagher who had had a really hard time with ICAC, proven to be completely innocent on everything.

But he'd sort of been benched. He'd been a minister and he was on the back bench.

And he was really lovely with me.

And he said, you don't have to put up with that anymore.

And this is what I'd do if I was you. I'd wait for your moment.

I'd get up. And that's exactly what I did.

Yeah. I said, you won't call me that anymore.

And I said, and you wouldn't speak to women in the Labor Party like that.

And you're not going to be allowed to speak to me.

Well, then I ended up getting in trouble from Mr. President at the time because I'd been unruly.

But then I sort of said, you know, you've never called him out for him.

He's been calling me names. I'm a 48-year-old woman.

I'm not going to come into this place. But he can call me my proper name.

And so that was that.

And then I think people sort of thought, oh, she's arrived.

But I just resent that I actually had to get to that point.

But anyway, so be it.

And then when I became a minister, they really went after my family.

And they went after Duncan and they went after Angus and, you know,

in all my question times and my budget estimates were all about personal family sort of matters

and alleged sort of smirkiness.

And look, they've thrown everything they can at me and they've come up with nothing.

But it's been really hard to take.

And hand on heart, if someone had said to me, we want you to run.

We want you to do this. We think you're going to be great.

But they're going to come after your husband.

And that's going to have an effect on your family and on your children.

I honestly don't know whether I would have gone in.

And so I think we have to start talking about these things in terms of politics in this country

and about people laying off your family and this perpetual thing of social media

and all of that really difficult stuff that it needs to improve itself.

Because when I used to give education about roles of cancer nurse

and you'd go and you'd be talking about breast cancer or bowel cancer,

what I'd say is don't let abnormal become normal, right?

So don't let that spot on your hand that's there that you haven't done anything about.

So in three months time, it's actually become normal.

It's actually not normal. It's abnormal.

The lump in your breast that, you know, is there.

But then you think, oh, yeah, I've just got a few lumps and a few cysts.

That's quite normal. It's not normal.

Get it checked and go and have your mammogram.

You know, your bowel habits, all those sorts of things.

And I think what happens in parliament is that abnormal behaviour becomes normal.

And it's like a child.

If you don't pull your child up and say, you are not going to speak to me like that

or you are not going to roll your eyes at your teacher again.

Polly Taylor, that was a terrible session with the teacher.

But do you know what I mean?

I wonder because there's not that many women that you become a real target in terms of,

particularly in the coalition.

I mean, you know, hats off to the Labour Party.

They've done a really good job in terms of getting good female representation.

I'm not sure if that makes me, you know, any more liable to sort of to be targeted or not.

I think I was really targeted because of my last name and because of the fact that, you know,

I mean, I truly I look like, you know, your typical country sort of farmer's wife, perhaps.

So I think that you judged more on your appearances as a woman.

And I think that's a real worry.

But I think we have to ask serious questions about representation.

And we really need to get that better diversity.

But I'm not sure.

I don't think anyone's figured out the best way to do it.

And I think we have to be really honest as a rural and regional woman.

I don't think that I should worry about when I say things like I actually wanted to be around when the girls were younger.

I wanted to do school canteen.

I wanted to be able to be there.

And I don't think that sometimes I think that's seen as a weakness and it shouldn't be.

And I think it should be accepted.

And I think that for rural and regional women to participate, it's so much harder because you have to go away from home.

And that's why we often see poor health outcomes in women as well in the country because they don't want to travel for treatment.

You know, so I think that's maybe a silver lining of covid that we've seen that that we are more accepting.

I mean, you know, in saying that I can't zoom in a meeting and have my camera on because my internet is so poor on the satellite.

So those sorts of things are difficult.

But I just think that we have to acknowledge those things for women and we have to value them.

And we should for blokes too.

We should value that dads want to do school canteen or dads want to do school pick up.

You know, they have just as much a role to play.

I feel confident going into this next generation that that will be shared.

But I think too, if you want to have two huge careers, it's really difficult to get that right.

So I think it's important to have those conversations and we shouldn't be afraid or we shouldn't think I can't say that because it doesn't sound like I want to be a power woman.

I think you just have to be really honest.

And that's the only way we can work through those issues.

Well, I'm glad that you've hung in there.

Does it make you sort of think sometimes, well, you know, it's a bit too much or do you think, you know what, I'm the right person to actually make the changes here?

I am tough enough.

I've got through enough, you know, that maybe I'm the right person to make the change for the ladies coming through and also the blokes.

I do now.

I feel really strong.

You know, the guy that started by calling me hyacinth, you know, he said to me the other day, you're really, really good.

Like, you know, we sort of can't get anything on you.

And I sort of I turned around to him and I said, yeah, well, you blotted me.

Yeah, yeah, but you're tough now.

And I said, yeah, but, you know, Duncan doesn't like that as tough as what I am sometimes, I think.

But I feel very privileged to be where I am.

I think to be deputy leader of the New South Wales Nationals gives me an incredible platform.

I'm not going to miss a minute and I'm going to make sure that I do everything that I need to do.

I am super passionate about health and mental health and I'm going to continue to be and I'm going to continue to push that forward.

So I think, you know, it was really hard and really tough time and really tough on my on my husband.

And I can never unsee that.

And that's really difficult because he's about the toughest person you'd ever meet.

That almost broke me and it almost broke my family.

And I think to, you know, hear my children say this is just not fair on dad really breaks your heart.

I can't imagine.

Yeah, really, really bad.

But you know what?

We got through it and we've been able to prove that everything that he's done and that I've done has actually been of benefit to a lot of people.

And so I'm just going to keep going now and bring it on.

Absolutely.

And good on you.

And Duncan's got your back, I imagine.

I mean, I'm assuming he would have been hurt.

I don't know exactly what the situation was, but he was hurt.

But he's still backing you to do the job that you want to do.

He is.

He is.

And it's really funny because when the option of deputy leader came up and I sort of thought, you know, I wouldn't blame him if he said and I don't want people to take this the wrong way.

Like, you know, he's the man and she's it's not like that's very equal relationship.

But, you know, I wanted to know what he thought.

And also, if he'd said to me, you know, I just really want you at home a bit more.

And, you know, because I'm away a lot.

And as my mother says, you know, not many people are put up with what Duncan does.

Oh, yeah.

That's that.

Beautiful. Thanks.

Thanks.

Don't you love it?

And I just think that, you know, but he did it.

He was the first one to say, I think he'd be terrific.

And I think you should give it a go and put on you.

So, you know, I think anything right is a moment in time.

And this is my moment in time to make a difference.

And I've got the opportunity.

So I don't intend to waste a minute.

And he's right beside me.

When I talk about mental fitness, you're obviously your portfolio.

Mental health is absolutely the most important thing.

I believe in Australia at the moment, not just Australia, the whole planet.

When you sit down and you can make decisions that can really make a huge impact,

do you sit back some nights and go, wow, that was a day.

I signed something off that can really help millions of people.

Like, what's that like to have that sort of conversations with people?

You're in the room where it happens.

Yeah, look, I never lose that.

And I say to the people that work with me, guys,

I think we need to stop and just reflect on the enormity of the change

that we've just achieved.

And I try and do that a lot because I think it's really, really important.

I think it's getting harder, Gus.

That's something that does concern me a bit.

And I think that, you know, with all this hoo-ha that's happened around grants

and around government funding and things,

the problem is sometimes that when we think that things have to fit

into a certain situation and they have to tick 15 boxes

and we have to demonstrate this and demonstrate that,

in the mental health space particularly,

I've tried to be a bit more courageous and say,

we've got to start looking at funding different types of things

because we can't keep doing the same thing, right?

We all know that, I guess.

But it is getting harder and it's that public perception.

And that would be the one thing I'd really say that, you know,

we have to not be afraid to fail sometimes with some of these things.

We can't be eaten alive about it.

I'd like to see much more bipartisanship in health

and the mental health space

because if we didn't have the chance to fund some of the things that we have,

some of those non-government organisations,

some of those grassroots things that are happening,

that on a piece of paper don't meet the test of the 10 Sydney-based bureaucrats

who are really good people, those department people.

They're really good people and they're doing their job.

But we need to have a bit more flexibility around that.

And that's something that concerns me going forward

because I think the media latch on to...

And, you know, it's been terrible with ICAC and the inquiry

and, you know, if the wrong things happen, it shouldn't happen.

But particularly in rural and regional New South Wales,

a lot of those business cases are never going to stack up

because we don't have the population.

That oncology clinic didn't stack up.

But because every single thing in that unit was by community-raised money

from the, you know, from the lino on the floor

to the curtains around the chairs, now it's hugely successful.

Now there's a visiting oncologist because we allowed that to happen.

And I just...that's something that does concern me

that I think politicians are going to start being very afraid to fund things

that don't look like they tick the 15 boxes because of those repercussions.

And we really have to be mindful and cautious of that in terms of public policy.

Yeah, absolutely.

At the end of the day, from my point of view,

the fact that you're human about it and if it's other people human about it,

then it gives you a little bit more...a little bit more wriggle room, I suppose,

to actually come out and see the work.

You know, I remember going to see Scott Morrison in Canberra

and I had two minutes with him, ended up having 20.

We spoke for 15 minutes about the crinola sharks and the Sydney roosters,

but I did get a couple of minutes and I actually said to him,

I've just been with the advisor to the Minister for Health

and he's basically told me I need to sharpen up my paperwork.

What I'm actually doing is great, but it doesn't look as good as it does on paper.

And I said, all I want you to do is you come along with your best friend

to one of our nights and bring Mr. Morrison,

bring along his best mates, bring along his children, whatever it might be,

and sit in a room and tell me at the end of 90 minutes

that you don't want every male that you love not to do that.

You tell me that that to me should be the thing.

And he said, I wish the world was that simple.

It's just simply not.

And I reckon if we could simplify politics, you might get more people like you,

normal people that have had a life before politics, to get involved in it.

Look, I agree and it's about what's good for your community,

but the problem is when we do all start feeling like that,

then we're not going to be courageous to do those different things.

You know, in Israel, apparently they have a fund

where it's like an innovation fund and all types of things

and they expect a 35% failure with that.

But the ones that do succeed are amazing.

And I just think that that's what we have to do

because there's professional people that write grant applications,

but that doesn't mean that the service then that is going to be delivered is good.

And that's what we've seen in the regions too.

We've seen people win all these great grant opportunities,

but then they're not based in the regions.

They're based four hours away and send someone in one day a week

who doesn't know the community. It ain't going to work.

So we do have to get a bit more like that.

And I hope we can have a bit of a reset.

I just think politics has gotten pretty nasty and I think that's a shame.

Yeah, it sure does.

Is there anyone in particular that you look at your life and go, told you so?

Like, do you have that type of thing in your body?

Like, you didn't back me and look at me now?

All the time.

Can you tell us who that is or is that just?

Oh, yeah, probably not.

But oh, yeah, they know who they are.

Alrighty. You know who you are.

Do you sometimes worry about having a bad day or doing the wrong thing?

Because, you know, you are a respected member of society.

Like if someone cuts you off in the traffic and you want to give them the bird

or shout and scream, you go, no, I can't do that.

I'm Bronnie Taylor now. I'm a member of parliament.

Yeah, I do. Look, hand on heart, absolutely.

Yeah, there's a couple of times and I've just wanted to let it rip at someone

where I would have before, but I can't now. Yeah.

Is that hard not to do?

Really hard. Really hard.

It's probably been good for me as a person because I do tend to be a bull at a gate.

So it's actually made me have to sort of step back and think about what I'm going to say.

And look, I still do behave really badly sometimes.

You know, I have to apologize to my staff because I've just been completely over the top

about something. And, you know, so I think we've just always got to always check in

with ourselves, haven't we, and make sure that we're on track and have trusted people

on your team that are able to tell you, you know what, you've been a complete jerk.

Yeah.

And people, particularly in politics, people behave very badly sometimes.

And I think that it's easy to normalize the behavior, right?

So you have to make sure that you don't end up being like that.

You've got to be the same person you were when you walked in those doors

on Macquarie Street when you leave.

Yeah. And I think if you have good people around you saying, hey, put your head in or,

you know, Bronnie, I'm really proud of you today. That was great.

You know, that just keeps you level.

Yeah.

That's good. Who inspires you?

Who inspires me? Look, country people inspire me every single day.

I just think they're amazing.

And I'm sorry if that's a bit of a generalized sort of answer, but I just think, wow.

And I suppose there's three women that are just such a standout,

and those are the women in New South Wales Health.

It's Elizabeth Cough, the secretary, Kerry Chant, chief health officer,

and Susan Pierce, who's run the immunization program during COVID.

They really inspire me.

Impressive people.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that's beautiful.

We're coming to the end, minister.

And I know you don't like me calling you minister.

The first time we spoke, I said minister, and you went, please call me Bronnie.

Because people think I'm a minister of religion.

It's like that is just not, you know, that's not the case.

What is your favorite quote?

Or is there a favorite quote or something you just live by, you know, like an edict?

I think be strong.

I think you're definitely that. And kind.

Be strong and kind, yes.

You're certainly that. Your favorite holiday destination?

The Maldives.

I know.

Are you dreaming of it right now?

I am dreaming every day.

Do you get holidays as a poly?

Do you know, I have taken one week's official leave in almost three years,

and I think it's a problem.

And that's something that we all need to discuss as well.

And I think that we should be taking, you know, we should be enforcing leave more,

but that has to be enforced from the top.

Is that your fault? The fact that you've only taken one week.

Could you have taken more, but you've just gone, I just can't do it.

I think when people above you don't take official leave, it makes it very hard to do so.

Lead leaders.

Okie dokie.

Favorite book?

Pride and Prejudice.

Oh, yeah. Ripper.

Favorite movie?

Love, actually.

Oh, how good.

I just love it.

Except the bit where, you know, when that lady, when she loves that South American guy in the office,

and then they can't be together because she's with her brother.

I have to sometimes fast forward that bit because I want them to be happy.

So I want another ending.

I love it.

And your favorite charity, no doubt you've got plenty,

but we've got from Shaun Partners $10,000 to give away to anyone that you'd like to give that to.

I would like to give that to Gotcha for Life.

And I don't say that because you're interviewing me, Gus.

From the moment I met you, I knew what you had was special and I knew it was unique.

And then I know from people that will come up to me spontaneously who have been to one of your sessions

and what they will say and how life changing that was is what you do.

You keep it real.

You talk about mental muscle.

And this is what we need when we talk about mental health.

We need organizations like yours who go into communities who are relatable, who are real, who are kind,

who are strong that actually make people feel that it's okay to talk about mental health.

So I 100% it's Gotcha for Life.

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Gus.

A big thank you to Shaun Partners Financial Services who have generously supported this podcast

and also donated $10,000 to the charity of choice of each of our guests to thank them for their time.

Shaun Partners are an Australian investment and wealth management firm

who manage over $28 billion of assets under advice.

With seven offices around Australia, Shaun Partners act for and on behalf of individuals,

institutions, corporates and charities.

For more info, you can check out their website at sharonpartners.com.au

That's S-H-A-W for Shaw.

Shaun Partners Financial Services, your partners in building and preserving wealth.