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Nothing Is Off The Table With Kieran Foran

Hey guys, welcome back to Ebbs and Flows where we talk about the highs and lows on and off the field.

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Published about 2 months agoDuration: 3:025641 timestamps
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Hey guys, welcome back to Ebbs and Flows where we talk about the highs and lows on and off the field.
One of the hardest men to get in rugby league.
Nafozi, how are you bro?
I'm good, thanks mate.
Great win on the weekend.
No one probably expected it coming.
You've been behind the scenes there.
What was that win like?
Yeah, crazy.
I certainly didn't see a result like that coming.
You know, the Warriors have been playing pretty good footy.
You know, probably not as well as they would have liked.
But they've been up for the last month.
And yeah, we were coming off the back of two losses.
And confidence was probably a little bit down.
But yeah, we responded super that day.
Like it was, it just all came together.
You know what it's like.
You're involved in games like that where everything just comes together on the day.
And that's what happened.
Defensively, we were strong.
Attack, everything came off.
And yeah, awesome game to be involved in.
What's the buzz like?
And around the training now?
Easy coming in after a win.
Yeah, boys are smiling and up and about.
I mean, yeah, coming in off the back of a win like that.
Yeah, gives everyone a great confidence booster.
And yeah, now we're just, we got the bye this week.
And then hopefully we can continue that form after the bye.
Who's got off of the bye?
Sharks.
That'd be a good little test.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so look, we haven't, a couple of things.
I don't think we've gone back-to-back wins this year.
It's been a pretty inconsistency.
Just a new, from our standards.
And then we haven't responded well after bye.
So yeah, good test for us, especially up against them.
Is it hard playing up on the Gold Coast?
Because obviously, like the lifestyle, and there's a similar lifestyle down in Manly,
but like Sydney's a bubble of rugby league.
Have you found it hard to adapt to the lifestyle up there and playing good footy?
No, I haven't found it difficult.
But, you know, I think just the position the club's been in,
obviously the last few years has probably made it more challenging.
But, you know,
the club itself is doing everything within its powers to turn that around
and have some really successful years in the coming years.
And I believe that we can do that.
But yeah, lifestyle-wise, it's been great, mate.
I've loved the move.
It's been awesome.
It's a great, great city to live in.
Great mates here now.
The boys are awesome.
And yeah, just as I said, the final piece of the puzzle is success on the footy field up here.
What's your form at the moment?
Obviously been in great form.
What do you put that down to?
Oh, I'm just, yeah, I'm just trying to, I guess, play as well as I can for the club.
I mean, they gave me an opportunity.
They, you know, gave me a contract to come up here and be a part of it.
And yeah, I just feel like I want to repay them.
You know, I want to, you know, leave a great legacy at the club and, you know, perform as well as I can.
So I'm just holding myself to that standard.
David Fafita, what's it like?
Obviously one of the most talented guys in the game.
How's it been sort of playing with him?
And how do you get the best out of him?
Like you're an experienced half.
You play very direct.
He likes to drop under and skip across.
How do you find that nice balance?
And what are those conversations like?
Oh, he's a special player, Dave Fafita.
Everyone knows it.
And I guess we all talk about his size and speed and power and skill set that he possesses.
But yeah, he truly is a freak athlete.
I don't think I've ever...
Played with a guy that is as big and powerful but can move as well as Dave can.
If you watch him closely in games, even at training, you see it all the time.
But his zero to 10 metres is so quick.
And the way he can move on his feet, it's...
You know, he can nearly move as well on his feet as, say, like a Jaden Campbell or AJ Brimson.
It's just crazy, but a man of that size.
So he's obviously a super athlete and nearly impossible one-on-one to stop.
So I guess my role is...
You know, playing in the halves is just trying to isolate him one-on-one with defenders
because you're going to need two or three guys to stop him at all times.
But close to the line, if he's one-on-one, he's scoring.
You just can't contain him.
There's nothing you can do, eh?
Nah, like, as I said, he is just like a super impressive athlete.
And yeah, he loves his footy, though.
He's really, really an excitable guy about his footy.
He loves learning.
He loves, you know, applying himself.
As well as he can each and every day to get the best out of his footy career.
And those are the sort of guys you want around your club.
Yeah.
What sort of looks are you giving him?
Let's dive a little bit deeper.
Do you like to play off like a wider, like a 7'3", 6'4"?
Or do you like giving him a wide 4 or something?
Yeah, it's a good point.
I reckon with Davey, he's nearly more dangerous when you're coming from a wider field position
just because they can't get the numbers to help him.
I suppose on short sides, you're sort of shortening that field up.
And it probably doesn't give him or allow him the amount of space that you can from a bigger shift.
But he's good from anywhere on the field.
I mean, like coming out of yardage, he's super.
He's just going to charge and take the metres.
And then once we get up over halfway, yeah, we'll probably tend to shift a little bit
from wider field positions with him.
Yeah, because I'm thinking about me playing half and he's across from me.
Winning at half full, like halfway up the field, and they're getting early boards.
It's a yuck place to be.
It is.
Because you know you've got heaps.
You've got heaps of field behind you, but you're like, fuck, where's my centre?
It's very isolating as a half.
Yeah, and then if you're on the try line and you're telling your centre to jam,
out the back on the full back, well then you're isolated even more.
You want your centre to sit with you, to help you defend him.
But then if you do that, then you're going to get pulled apart out the back.
You played with some pretty gifted back rowers.
Who's been some of your favourites?
Fuck, that manly left edge was spectacular.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, in my early days, obviously had Chocky Wattmell there and Tony Williams.
Mate, he, not too dissimilar to Dave, like an absolute freak of a specimen.
Like, just, yeah, super powerful, fast, explosive, skilful.
Had Chocky Wattmell, who again was a freak of a footballer.
Then I had Hoz, 2013.
And, yeah, look, I've been blessed, yeah.
I've played with a number of great back rowers at different clubs.
What do you learn from playing at Manly?
Because whenever I watch Manly from afar, and they've always been one of my favourite teams to watch,
because none of them have ever been scared to play football.
And, like, when you played, and I remember we used to play years,
like a lot of your forward pack would come out the line and try and put shots on you.
And it was, defensively, when you look at it now in terms of systems,
it wasn't a great system, but the fear that they would put into you,
and, like, you could put on.
And Skivvy could put on a shot.
And, George, like, I think that intimidating factor was annoying.
Plus, you're rolling out into Brookie, and it's fucking heavy as fuck,
and people were shouting at you.
What did you learn about playing at Manly in the early days?
Yeah, I reckon just being a footy player.
That was what you learnt.
Like, as you spoke about, there wasn't too much process involved.
You know, those guys were just out-and-out footy players who wanted to hurt people.
And, yeah, like, yeah, they would just go.
Go after teams.
Go after players.
You know, it was baseball bats out, baseball helmets on, and just teeing off.
And that was, I think that's what that Manly team was sort of renowned for during that era,
was we're going to kick you into a corner, and then we're going to absolutely wail India
and give you everything we got and pick you up and drive you back
and just do it over and over again.
And then they were fortunate enough to possess the skill off the back of it
that if you gave them enough ball down that end, they were going to score.
You know, so they just, they had the best of both worlds.
And I was, you know, very blessed as a young bloke to come into that footy team.
Because a lot of their skills, like, when you watch them, like, pass a ball,
a lot of them aren't very, like, silky either.
So, like, Snake would be out the back, and he'd tip it on.
Like, sometimes he'd throw passes to me, bro, and they'd be like, topspin.
You know what I mean?
Like, technically, they're not.
Chalky was another one, like, uncoordinated.
And I reckon Guffo's got a bit about that as well.
Yeah, to a degree.
I mean, they were, they just knew how to use the ball, you know,
if you could say that.
They just knew when the ball needed to get to space and how to get it there.
And, yeah, they were silky players to play with.
Yeah, let's talk about that team a little bit.
One thing that sort of rattled me when I went to Manly,
and I never played first grade there,
but I thought Skivvy was, like, this really big dude,
just because of the way he played on the field.
And you meet him in real life and humble, like, you're standing in the Kiwi Islander, boy.
But we'll talk about a killer, Jamie Lyon.
He was my favourite at the club, just someone who was fun.
Wasn't, like, your normal type of leader?
He sort of, like, softened everything around?
Like, everyone would be talking serious and you would say something fun.
But what's the type of leadership skills you learned from someone like him?
Yeah, I guess he was very, you know, action-dominated killer.
He didn't say a lot, as you spoke about.
He was a jovial sort of a character.
And when he did say something, it was to lighten the mood
and sort of, I guess, take the seriousness out of the situation.
So, look, but in saying that,
he knew when he did that.
He did talk.
And when he did give the boys a spray,
if we were off, you know, early on in a game,
everyone's eyes lit up, you know.
It was uncommon for a killer to really come down hard on the players.
So, he used that to his advantage at times.
But, yeah, I think his leadership style was very much
I'll stand up in the big moments and follow me, boys.
And things that stand out for me are just moments late in games, you know.
Could be 16.
All tight contest.
And he would just come up with the magic play.
You know, with two minutes to go on the clock,
whether it be a flick pass, a chip kick.
And then other games where he had to ice a goal kick from the sideline.
He just, he knew in big moments how to lower his nerves,
keep everyone calm, and just come up with a special play.
You need a rag-rig on him too, eh?
That was the thing.
He wasn't renowned for his weight, that's for sure.
You know you're a good centre when you're winger.
Usually he picks up, like, top try score of the year.
Your mate DCE, obviously you guys come into the competition.
Two-part question.
First of one, is it jicking it's good winning a comp early in your days?
We talk about that all the time.
Do you?
Yeah.
Look, we're great mates still now.
And, yeah, we always catch up and talk about our, I guess,
our playing days together and still now.
But, yeah, I think it's a hard one.
And, I mean, if you had your preference, you'd probably rather win one late.
Yeah.
Just because it probably puts it into perspective a bit more for you.
And, you know, you've journeyed and you've been through the highs and lows
and you've been able to stick at it and persist and come out on top.
I think that that would be an incredible feeling
and something that I'm definitely still chasing.
But in saying that, you're never ungrateful to win a competition.
You know, I mean, some blokes play their entire careers
and don't get the opportunity to ever play in a grand final or win a competition.
It's very hard to do that.
So, like I said, you know, to win one, both of us at a young age together,
I think it's pretty special.
You know, we came into, I guess, an established footy team
at that young stage of our careers.
They had won a competition in 2008.
They'd played in the grand final the year before in 2007.
So they were a top quality footy team.
And, you know...
But it's not like you're rolling in as like a prop off the bench or something.
You know, seven, six, pretty important.
Well, that's the thing I was just about to touch on.
You know, people often say,
geez, you know, you were blessed to come into that footy team.
And there's no denying that we were.
They were an incredible side and Desi had done a wonderful job.
But I think it sort of overshadowed
the sort of footy that we did play that year.
Like the two of us, you know, we were able to come in
and at that young age of sort of 21, 22,
and as you said, as a seven and six,
and actually really stamp our mark on a lot of those games that year.
So that's something I think we're both, you know,
extremely proud of at the same time.
Obviously, we're really guided and helped by those players around us
that had been there and done it.
And that obviously alleviated
a lot of our pressures and nerves.
But yeah, proud of the sort of footy we were able to play.
How did you learn your style of football?
Because obviously you play the game like really tough.
It's direct.
And you're playing it at like a young age
and you're playing above your weight
and probably above your experience as well.
Like where'd you learn that from?
It's a good question.
A lot of people wouldn't know,
but I was an outside back as a kid.
You know, I was signed at Manly as a 16 year old
and I played, I think,
right centre at Estee Ball.
And I guess around that point,
I'd sort of made Australian schoolboys
and probably the knock on me was,
shit, is he going to be big enough to play centre in the NRL
or fast enough for that fact to play centre?
And the answer was probably no.
So through the, you know,
I sort of finished Estee Ball that year
and went up to Jersey Fleg.
The coach at the time, Dave Penner,
was coaching Fleg.
And he was sort of,
he's sort of the reason why I ended up moving
into the halves in the first place.
He was just short on halves
and in the under 21s comp
and basically said to me,
I reckon you could make a fist to 5'8".
And I was like,
mate, I can't kick or pass,
let alone organise a team, ball play.
And he said, nah, I'm telling you,
if you just find your style,
and you work hard as a running 5'8",
which is what I was early on in my career,
if you remember that,
all the way back then,
then he said, I think you can be all right at it.
And I'm not sure on the conversations
between him and Desi at the time,
but that sort of,
that next 18 months was crucial.
I sort of, around 16 and a half to 18 and a half
when I made my NRL debut
was that transition into that 5'8 role.
But I was just a running six
and,
to answer your question around my style,
I think I realised what my strengths would be pretty early
as a playmaker
and I wasn't blessed with, you know,
a fancy passing game,
fancy kicking game.
But my first pre-season,
I went in with that,
with all the NRL guys under Desi
and I remember just digging deep into the line
and just giving Snake heaps of clean ball out the back
and, you know,
I vaguely remember Snake, you know,
saying to me after the session,
he goes,
Frick, I just love how far you're digging into the line
and you're just looking short and hitting me out the back
and I've just got all this time to play these three-on-twos,
you know, like,
he just said, I'm loving it.
And I think that's how I sort of, you know,
got me chance in the NRL in the first place.
I think in the end,
I just had that one style, that one play
and I just stuck to it.
Obviously, I had a running game as well,
you know,
I could, you know,
take the line on it,
the right times,
but, yeah,
the game just,
and then my game just evolved.
I think during that next two or three years,
Joey came on board at Manly,
which me and Daly were absolutely blessed with.
He came on as a halves coach,
you know,
the greatest number seven the game's ever seen
and basically,
Des brought him on to train me and Daly up
and pass on all his knowledge and skills
and then I just,
I just evolved my game over time
through all those little areas,
areas and bits of information that I was passed on.
Yeah, what was Joey teaching you?
Yeah, just,
you know what,
I remember just little things like
he was so good at getting the poles out
and, you know,
teaching us how to kick from A to B defender,
start on B defender,
go back at A or kick over to C defender
and those things at times
that we just,
just did repetition after repetition
are things that are still used today now,
you know,
all these years on.
It's just embedded in you
and you,
yeah,
you just add certain things over time
and that's what I've managed to do
but, yeah,
the fundamentals of what Joey taught both of us
through those two or three years
was,
yeah,
hugely valuable.
I remember when I was like coming through 20s
and moving into first grade,
like I played like kind of a little bit,
a little bit too lateral
because Benji was the guy
and I remember I pulled me to the side one time
and he goes,
do you watch much footy?
And I was like,
yeah,
I watch it all the time
and he goes,
watch Kieran Foran play
and I go,
I'll go,
I'll play it against Fozzie,
like I know how he plays
and he goes,
nah,
watch him like a bit closer
and I go,
I knew you play tough
and he go,
I go,
what's so good about it?
And he goes,
the forwards are all specter
and the outside backs will love playing with you
and I always remember him saying that
and I just come back from injury
from breaking my foot
and I was a bit,
like,
I was with Rubes for like six months
so I was fucking solid.
I was still like 90 kgs
but I was like benching 150
and I remember watching your game
and you had these two plays
and I copied them in reserve grade
for two weeks
and two weeks later
I was off in first grade,
bro.
I love that.
That's crazy.
I love hearing that.
Yeah,
and like,
and he goes,
just like run first
and everything great
comes off the back of that
and I just started doing that
and like,
I ended up in first grade,
we won like five games in a row,
get re-signed
and shit like that
then the old bright lights come along
and you start going,
start going sideways again.
It gets harder
and it gets harder
and harder.
Yeah,
for sure.
What's it like hearing guys
like someone like,
like I've just said that
and no one's ever heard
that story before
but someone like Luke Carey
who's like,
he said that you were
a result of growing up.
What's it like hearing that
and you're playing against these guys?
Oh,
yeah,
it's humbling.
You're younger than me too.
That's the funny thing.
I know,
I feel like I've been around forever.
It's,
yeah,
it's very humbling.
I mean,
you know,
yeah,
to just,
I think
you just hope
that you can leave
a legacy with people
and you can,
you know,
have had a positive impact
on people's lives
and rugby league careers
as such
and yeah,
I guess,
yeah,
I probably get a bit embarrassed
when people,
you know,
talk like that
or give compliments like that
and say that they've looked up to me
or,
you know,
that they've watched my vision
and footage
but,
yeah,
I guess,
you know,
at the end of the day,
I was doing exactly the same.
Yeah.
You know,
I've had my idols
and the guys that I've
aspired to be like
still to this day
so,
yeah,
it's just,
it's part and parcel of it.
You find players
that you want to emulate
and that you want to be like
and,
yeah,
it's something
that's so great about our game.
Who are you all?
Who are you guys you looked up to?
It's,
good question.
Mine have
chopped and changed
over the years.
I mean,
obviously being a young Kiwi boy,
I idolised the All Blacks
as a,
probably up until I was 10 years old
so,
my idol as a kid was like
Carlos Spencer,
you know.
The King.
Yeah,
the King Carlos.
Christian Cullen,
you know,
like these great All Black players
and then
probably around sort of 11 and 12
it was Stacey Jones,
you know,
Henry and Robbie Paul,
Stacey Jones,
all those,
sort of Kiwi rugby league legends
and,
and then sort of
as I got into my teens
and I moved over to Australia
and I was deeply
in my rugby league journey
then I,
you know,
started to,
I guess,
watch more of,
you know,
your Lockiers,
Thurston's,
Cronks,
all of those guys
a lot closer
and,
yeah,
try and take,
yeah,
all parts from their games of footy
and,
and,
and add them into mine.
Yeah,
I always think of Cooper Cronk,
like,
and I don't mean to say it's disrespect
and I'm sure you'll say it as well,
like the amount of talent he had
compared to,
like,
what he'd done in the game
and he was another guy
that I used to look up to
because like,
like Shawnee Johnson was coming through
and he would do some freaky shit
and I would just be like,
I'm not him,
like,
where can I plug myself in
and still be an effective half
and he was an important one for me.
Yeah,
I mean,
you hear this story about Cooper,
don't you,
all the time,
everyone brings it up,
you know,
that he had,
he was playing Queensland Cup
for Norse Devils at the time
and he was sort of moving from
13 to 9 to 7 to 6,
they didn't really know
what position he was going to be
but went down to Melbourne
and Craig turned him into
arguably one of the greatest sevens
our game's seen
and to think he,
you know,
won the amount of competitions
that he did
and became such a
incredible halfback
at icing big moments
and it was all manufactured.
Yeah.
Yeah,
it's crazy,
isn't it,
when you think,
about it like that.
Norms used to always say this,
like,
it looks weird
when he gets out of structure,
you know,
when someone gives him an offload
and he's like,
where can I place,
I can relate,
I can relate.
He's like,
where's the post,
give me two points.
It's true,
it's true,
I'm still like that,
like when the boys start playing
offload footy,
it's funny,
when you're a manufactured half,
it doesn't come natural to you,
it's a scramble,
the game gets messy for you.
Oh,
okay,
yeah.
You know,
when you watch natural halves,
you can see that they love it
when that footy,
starts to take place,
but,
yeah,
I can relate to Cooper for sure,
you know,
if,
you know,
that's what he was thinking
at the time.
Jaden Campbell,
let's talk about natural halves,
obviously had a great game
on the weekend.
What's he like?
I've interviewed him before,
but when I interviewed him,
I go,
oh fuck,
I feel like the ball
always bounces your way.
Quiet kid.
Yeah.
Yeah,
how was your convo?
Yeah,
no,
he was alright,
because like,
before the podcast,
he was all like,
all chirpy,
and like,
what do you have to do after this?
Like,
oh,
I don't know,
I mean,
blah,
blah,
blah.
But yeah,
on the podcast,
he was very,
yeah,
very selective with his words.
Yeah,
he's pretty quiet,
he's starting to come out of his shell,
and he's certainly going to have to
as a,
you know,
as a number six
and a half moving forward,
but,
mate,
he is a,
he's a special player,
eh?
He is a silky mover.
You know,
the,
yeah,
just the way in which he glides
across the field,
he sees space,
he sees defenders that,
you know,
pop out of the line,
you know,
he can just take advantage of so much
because he's just got such an array of skills.
Yeah,
he's,
he's completely and utterly naturally gifted
like I've never seen.
And obviously,
you know,
now he's,
he's going to just
work extremely hard on his game
and,
and add to those
natural gifts,
but,
yeah,
super talented footballer.
He was saying when he was a kid,
him and his cousin used to play,
like,
they used to play a chipping game,
but they had to get it back in one bounce.
Really?
Yeah.
And he was talking about,
like,
the analogy of,
of,
I've heard Dennis Rodman talk about,
like,
when you see so many shots go up after a while,
you know where the rebound's going to go.
So he must just have a,
like a sixth sense for that.
Yeah,
he's got a knack of it,
mate.
He just knows how the ball's going to bounce.
He knows where and when he needs to pop up
on a footy field.
I mean,
he's,
yeah,
he's,
yeah,
as I said,
special,
special footballer.
AJ Brimson,
how do you,
where does,
obviously,
I see him as a fullback
and you'll probably come into that position.
How do you maximise his potential?
Because,
in my mind,
he could be elite
and he's still a great player,
but like,
how do you get the best out of him
every single game?
Because he can win you games.
Yeah,
I reckon for AJ,
it's just about staying on the footy field
as much as he can.
Because as you said,
if he's playing consistent footy,
he's nearly one of the best ones in the game.
Like,
yeah,
in terms of ability
and just strike power,
mate,
he is,
he's up there for me,
eh?
Ivan,
yeah,
I put him up there,
like,
right up with,
with some of the best ones
I've played.
I've played with,
he's,
he's electric.
I don't think I've seen a,
a player faster
over the first sort of,
like their first,
you know,
10 to 20 metres.
Like when AJ explodes,
he explodes quicker than
any player I've seen
when he hits a,
hits a gap,
you know?
He's,
yeah,
super athlete
and his footy IQ's really,
really high too,
mate.
Like he really understands the game
and he,
and he wants to continually learn
and yeah,
he's,
he's got it all.
Yeah,
and for him,
I guess,
yeah,
it's just been the fact that,
you know,
his body's,
you know,
probably let him down
at certain stages
through season
so we haven't seen
the best of him
consistently yet
but he's only 25.
Is he?
So,
I feel like he's been around forever.
So you get the feeling
that if he can
start to maximise,
you know,
his body
in,
in that way
and he can play,
you know,
full season,
that,
you know,
he could,
he could be winning
Dele Ems
and,
and,
you know,
obviously Grand Finals
and,
and just be,
you know,
one of the Titans'
greatest players.
Yeah.
You obviously come from Manly
and you look at the phase
of where young players
are right now.
How much more professional
are they now?
Yeah,
so much more,
mate.
Oh,
it's,
it's a business now.
Yeah.
Yeah,
it's,
it truly is.
It's,
well,
there's so much money
in the game now.
The product's so good.
You know,
the quality,
the standard of footy
is,
is exceptional
but I think the reason
for that is just,
as you said,
how professional players are
and because players
are more professional,
they can train harder,
they can train for longer,
you can get,
you can squeeze more
out of them.
Yeah.
So then your,
your product of your game
on the weekend's
going to continually
get better and better
and,
yeah,
that just comes down
to professionalism.
Is the season too long?
I don't know.
I love it.
I love it.
I'm not,
I don't really have a say
on it one way or another.
I,
I think they've,
they've got it right.
I mean,
if you shorten the season
then how long's your off season
at the end of the day?
How,
how long are you giving
players off?
I mean,
we already get,
I think,
10 to 12 weeks off.
Well,
I don't know.
I'm an older bloke,
I do.
I think some of the younger ones
only get six or eight
so I understand that.
I think the rule is eight,
four,
yeah,
then obviously once you
get in that vet.
But you know,
that's pretty good
in the,
in the real world,
you know,
if you're getting 10 weeks
off break,
you know,
it's,
it's pretty,
that's pretty handy,
you know.
I think if you start
shortening the season
then,
and you're going to
shorten the pre-season
then,
I don't know,
how much time through a year
are you going to have,
idle time are you going
to have or?
Yeah,
and then young kids
got more time,
more money,
more trouble.
Yeah,
I just think,
I think it's probably
pretty good,
the fact that they start
the season and sort of,
you know,
trial games in Feb
and finishes up in,
you know,
September.
I think they've,
I think they've pretty much
got the balance right.
Is all season too long?
For me it is.
For me it is.
Nah,
I think it's,
I think it's bang on.
Like I said,
I think that's
a good amount of time
to recover,
recoup,
get your body right
for the next campaign.
I think,
yeah,
I think it's,
yeah,
it's a good break.
Yeah,
because I look at it
and it's like,
most teams will do
eight weeks before Christmas
and like,
that February,
oh,
that December 21st session,
everyone's ripped
and like,
the opposed session's amazing.
Then you've got to do
another eight weeks
before you get into trials.
Like,
in my mind,
the way I see it is like,
boxers and UFC fighters,
like,
that's how long their camp is
for one fight.
So you're doing double that.
I'm not saying it's harder
or anything like that.
Yeah.
But just to get ready
for the season.
And it's interesting
to watch it sort of play out
where some teams taper off
and they build towards the season.
Yeah.
Where another team
just go hammer,
hammer.
I'd love to see all the data
behind it.
That'd be interesting.
and I,
that's the thing I,
I think high performance teams
are constantly trying
to look at,
do you taper off
and try and save the energy
and the conditioning
and all that
and save the legs
or do you go harder
to,
you know,
get better athletes
at the end.
So,
yeah,
I mean,
pre-season's something
I think will continually
evolve in our game.
I think that,
you know,
whether or not
eight weeks pre-Christmas
is too long
is something that,
you know,
you often hear.
the game talking about
but,
yeah,
I think they've,
you know,
from my point of view
they've,
they've got the balance right.
I think,
I was watching,
I might have been near,
like when Manly were doing it
and they're going down
to AFL teams
and sort of breaking it up
and doing a lot of different
things as well
because like you said
it is a,
it is a long slog
and if you're just out there
on the footy field
running around cones
fuck it gets old pretty quick.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think,
yeah,
I think if you're having
a 16 week pre-season
in the one place
it can get a bit mundane.
How much has the game changed
from when you started
to the game now
just as a,
like a playing style?
Yeah, I think,
I think the biggest change
obviously happened
through COVID
when they brought in
six again
and,
yeah,
it sped the game up
and you could feel the change.
I remember vividly thinking
shit will I survive
this change,
like this rule change
because,
yeah,
you just all of a sudden
had to become
so much fitter,
so much faster.
Yeah,
there's just
a lot more endurance
brought in
and,
you know,
you remember what it was like
when you could just
kick for touch
and have a minute breather
and find your breath
and,
you know,
regroup
and things like that
but,
yeah,
I think,
yeah,
the game's definitely changed
a heck of a lot
since when I came in
even to the point where,
you know,
one of the biggest change,
not,
you don't take three hit-ups
for a shot,
do you?
No, no.
That's gone now.
You get crucified
for taking one,
one too many hit-ups
for a shot
these days.
It's like play on,
play on,
play.
I think
the style now
has evolved
where you can play
from anywhere
on the footy field.
There's not really
such thing as yardage
and good ball.
You almost can pull
the trigger from anywhere
and you don't really
lay a line
to then set up again.
Yeah,
remember,
I,
I,
Because when I played
I was like,
like the shape I like
was two to fifty
and then give me
a five-five split
and I'll go into the line
and flick it out
the back of the more so.
Yeah.
And that was,
that was enough
but when you think about it
like say we're coming
from left,
so we're rolling to right,
that left edge,
if you're on the left edge
you've got like
three tackles
to have a look at the shape
that we're running anyway.
Yes.
Yeah,
so you can just pick it up.
Yeah,
I,
I know,
you know,
from our point of view
we certainly,
you know,
don't like to,
to lay too many
set up lines
to,
to then have a shot.
It's,
it's almost like
eyes up constantly.
Yeah.
And that's changed
because,
you know,
you remember back in the day,
you know,
those,
you know,
early years
it was almost like
grinding a game
of footy out.
You were happy sometimes
to go five hit ups
for a kick
and just complete high.
Yeah.
And win a game 6-4.
Yep.
And now you don't see
too many score lines
like that.
I,
I feel like the game
is a lot more
attacking base now.
So you're sort of
winning games 30 to 28
and 36-34.
It's not uncommon
to see those score lines
as in back in the day
that was a
ridiculous score line.
Yeah.
I remember that game
you guys played
against the Roosters
might have been
round one of 2013 finals.
I can like,
for,
for a,
low scoring game
that was one of the best games
I've ever watched.
Yeah.
And that,
that's a classic example of it.
Like you just wouldn't see that now
I don't think.
No.
You wouldn't see a 4-0 game
and,
yeah,
that,
that they were,
they were just,
just hard fought battles.
Yeah.
Not many points,
just teams just staying
end to end
and waiting for a cracker.
Yeah.
It was a grind,
wasn't it?
When I think about that era,
like when I played,
I was very defense orientated
and you can see
by the shape
of the players,
you know what I mean?
So like,
say fullbacks for example,
the little man's come back
in as a fullback
and,
and that wouldn't have happened
a couple years ago
because you would have had
to have a decent sized body
because you're in the arm wrestle
and you got like GI
coming back
and even Darius Boyd's
like a pretty solid dude.
Yeah.
Snake was a bit small
but he could get by.
For sure.
But like you see Pappenhausen
and even,
like,
you know what I mean?
Do you reckon,
I reckon that's probably
got to do with the,
sped the ruck up so much.
That's it.
You remember
how,
how slow the wrestle was?
The ruck,
you could,
you could manipulate it
so much back then.
You could go two up top,
third man in on legs,
slow to the ground,
slow peel.
Yeah.
You know,
and then all of a sudden
it was a five second,
you know,
six second play the ball,
your line was set,
you were getting forward.
It was hard,
yeah,
it was hard to attack against
because then what you're saying,
you're spot on.
Now,
your little men are back
in the game
because the ruck's
a bit more free flowing.
It's not as,
I don't think it's as set
all the time.
And even like playing as half,
like an early ball to a center
is like a great play now.
Like back then it was like,
centers always want the ball,
they're like,
out boy,
out boy,
and you're looking up
and you've got a wide ball
that's already set,
you're going to get jammed.
You can like,
you don't really need shape anymore.
You can just zing it across
and there's space out there.
Yeah,
yeah,
for sure.
Yeah,
I honestly reckon that
period through COVID
where they made those adjustments
with the ruck,
the six again,
they started to want to speed
the game up,
ball and play,
things like that.
I just think,
yeah,
it brought the little men
back into play.
The scoreline started to become,
or the game started to become
more attack focused
and it just suited
those sorts of players.
Sure.
As a half,
when do you know
it's a good time to run?
Because this is where I used to struggle
because I get caught
playing traffic cop,
you know,
and they always say,
you know a half's in form
when he's running.
You know what I mean?
When do you,
I feel like you've always
had the balance right.
Yeah,
it's an interesting one.
I definitely feel like
I used to run
a hell of a lot more
when I was,
a bit faster
and a bit more
robust and explosive.
Now I'm,
probably first option
is 10 to pass
a lot more,
but,
no,
I think it's the old saying,
when it's a quick ruck,
you're running.
You know,
I think at the end of the day,
you become the best option
then once
you feel like
you've got a bit of ruck
momentum
and,
you know,
you can stand
one of those guys still
or get right into the line
and see whether
they'll slide off
when you throw that dummy
or something like that.
But,
yeah,
I guess I've,
a lot of my runs,
I'm not sure I've ever
really intended
to,
or deliberately
thought about
running at the point.
You know,
I might,
I thought you would,
yeah.
I might dig into the line
with shape
and in the last minute
I just feel them slide
and it becomes a run.
Yeah.
But I think it's the work
that you do
before you get the ball
and the early work
that you do
that then allows a run.
I don't know if that makes sense,
but.
What does early work mean?
Well,
you talk to your
outside guys,
the shape that you want
and when you're,
when you're setting that up
I think then it's pulling
the,
it's pulling the defenders
off you
and then it,
it becomes a bit more obvious,
you know,
where,
where the space might be,
but.
Yeah,
I got you.
Yeah,
yeah.
But then in saying that,
I guess,
the,
I guess what you're saying
is at times
when you do see a wide A
or a,
you know,
a wide defender,
you are going to premeditate
the run for sure.
Quick ruck,
slow man getting back
in the middle,
big space in behind it,
I'm going here.
Like,
you're just going to show,
you know,
right or left
and then take off,
you know,
and back yourself
to score the try
or something like that.
So,
yeah,
I suppose it's that balance
between the two.
What did you think
of the game last night?
Loved it.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
Did you see that coming?
Yeah,
I did actually.
Did you?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I,
I thought New South Wales
picked up
a pretty,
pretty red hot team
for game two
and I just thought
they would have learnt
a lot from that game one
and,
yeah,
I mean,
I probably didn't
suspect the blowout
would be as big as it was,
but,
especially at halftime.
Yeah,
I mean,
that was huge.
I didn't see it going that way,
but I thought the Blues
would win.
What did you like
about Menchie's game?
Oh,
I just love,
I just love the fact
that he was in the thick
of it from the get-go.
I mean,
he didn't take time
to warm into it.
You could see
he was confident.
He,
he backed his ability
and from all reports
that's what he's done
from day one
since going into camp.
He's just basically
taken the reins of the team,
basically said,
it's my team
and I'm running the show
and you could see
that last night
and I think that's when
Mitch Moses
is at his absolute best
when it's just
him being dominant
and,
and having
all the confidence
in the world
and his ability
because,
yeah,
he's one heck of a footballer
and,
yeah,
that performance
was outstanding.
Do you think someone,
do you think someone
like Nico Hines
is obviously
a wonderful player
but once you get in
those tighter,
bigger arenas
and you've played
in grand finals
and,
and footy world cups
and stuff like that,
like,
I look at someone
like Tommy Dearden
who's got maybe
two or three plays
very much like
Jimmy Maloney
but he nails those plays
every single time
then when you get into
those bigger moments
and you recognise
in plays
and everyone's fatigued
like you can take on
that wide four
and Jimmy had the like
Boyd corner
and the dummy
and duck and palm
like those are the
two main plays he has
when you watch someone
like Nico Hines play
there's a lot of
moving pieces
going around
is that,
is that a fair?
That's a really good analogy
I reckon you're bang on
I think,
I think Nico's
to a degree
still finding his style
you know,
a lot of people forget
he was a,
he was a fullback
you know,
wasn't he at Melbourne
as a junior
he's come in
he's signed at Cronulla
as a,
as a halfback
and it takes you a while
to really,
I guess,
hone in on your craft
and,
and learn
like you said
what your
three or four
pet plays are
and your style
and he's such a
gifted footballer
that he's got an array
of skills
that he can play
you know,
from anywhere
on the footy field
but it'll probably
he's probably still
developing
how he wants
to play consistently
like with his,
his skill set
because he's almost got,
he's got too many options
yeah,
I mean,
he's,
he's very,
when I watch Nico play
he's just front foot
free flowing
and just at ya
and when it's,
when it's a retreating line
and he's got ruck speed
there's no one better
like he's just at ya
and he's got the kick
he's got the pass
he's got the run
I think
for Nico
his growth will be
how he manipulates
a defensive line
that's
coming to him
and,
and he does that
he doesn't have ruck speed
and as you spoke about
in those big games
especially in game one
you're not having ruck speed
and you're not getting
the free flowing footy
that you might be used to
at club land
so,
yeah,
I think that's just part of his,
his growth
he's,
a lot of people forget
Nico's still
pretty early on
in his career
yeah,
I think,
I think of the age
for those people
yeah,
like he's 28, 29
I think it does
like I'm not sure Nico's
even played a hundred games yet
like,
might it be just around
that sort of mark
yeah,
so like,
you know,
I remember
when I was at that stage
of my career
I was still well
and truly learning
my style
and what worked best
for me in games of footy
so,
he's a great,
great player
there's no denying that
and he will have a,
a huge career
because he's,
strikes me
as the sort of guy
that,
applies himself
really well
and he's super dedicated
and he wants to learn
and seems to be like
a sponge with information
he just wants to take it
all in
and constantly get better
so,
he'll have a huge,
huge career
it's just,
I think for him,
yeah,
he's at a stage
where he's finding his style
what's your thoughts
on Nathan Cleary?
love him
yeah,
love him,
yeah,
I,
his,
his career's been phenomenal
really hasn't it?
I mean,
to think,
what he's 25
yeah,
something like that
and he's,
what,
played in four grand finals
won three of them
completely and utterly dominated
the big lights
and the big stage
and consistently played
great footy over,
you know,
the first,
what,
seven years of his career
or something like that
it's just been,
yeah,
it's been really awesome
to watch
and again,
I haven't had heaps
to do with Nathan
but every time I've met him
he's,
he's a champion
champion bloke
and everything you hear
about him
is just how hard he works
yeah
and you just can't help
but love
and feel
happiness
for a guy
that works
so incredibly hard
on their craft
and they reap the rewards
and I think in his case
that's just an example of it
I think he's a,
he's a great example
to all the young halves
coming through
yeah
I think I'm like
because I was coached
under Ivan a lot
and like Ivan's always been
like super inquisitive
and someone had a great
term about Ivan
they said
when you walk into the room
you wouldn't know
he's the coach
which I thought was a great
way to explain him
so like even when I caught up
with some of those
parent of boys
at the start of the show
he was just like
like I was happy to see him
and I obviously wanted
to ask him a thousand questions
but he was asking me
all the questions
not about football or anything
he just wanted to
leave that conversation
with one thing
that was like a little bit
make him like a little bit smarter
you know what I mean
and I feel like Nathan's
very much like that
like he'll ask about
social media stuff
but there's no arrogance
about them
because they're continuously
just wanting to learn
for sure yeah
he definitely strikes you
that way
and yeah
he just seems like
a super human being
and
can't spot him up to
yeah
he's a good defender
he's good on the double D too
yeah
he's yeah
he's a tough bugger
and he
you know
he's not afraid of defence
and
he gets his head in there
our mate DCE
let's talk about him
why is he so good
for so long
I think highly competitive
like super competitive
I think that's one of
Daly's great traits
yeah
I think that he's
driven by
constantly
achieving
at a really
really high standard
and I think
that's what makes him
you know
the player that he's been
for so long
he's competitive
he wants to win
and he wants to be
the best that he can be
I think people get thrown off
because he's so polite
you know what I mean
they do
for sure
politely competitive
yeah I think
you know what people see
of Daly in the camera
you know
there's a
there's a grit and determination
behind the scenes
that if you know him
you know that there's
there's a deep fire
you know
lit in there
and I think
that's what's allowed him
to have the career
that he's had
but
in saying that
you know
all the other things
that go with it
he's obviously
extremely gifted
as a footballer
he's worked
extremely hard
he's
he's fit as fuck
yeah
he's so fit
he's professional
he looks after his body
he you know
hasn't had many injuries
he's
you know
he's genetically
well put together
you know
he ticks a lot of boxes
he's really long
he's a big
big hands
rubbery
yeah
and like a big ass
you know
and he's
he's not
he's not too big up top
he's powerful
through his ass
and his legs
you know
he's big through his ass
and legs
so he's powerful
and you know
that's I guess
giving him an advantage
with his running game
and his kicking game
and things like that
but
it's all like swerve
it's not really like
a big step or anything
it's just like
it's kind of awkward
yeah
nah
he certainly is
I think he's
he's learnt how to get himself
around
a footy field
pretty handily
and yeah
he just knows how to
yeah
how to
how to win games
of footy
doesn't he
he can swing momentum
better than most
yeah
that 40-20
that he hits
they're pretty sweet
yeah
he's been
I mean
there's been certain
trademark
I guess
areas of his game
that he's dominated
I think for a long
long time
40-20
he'd be one of them
he just knows
drop goals
drop goals
doesn't miss out
nah
like I mean
and to go with the other
you know
skill sets he's got
but they're just
two areas that he's
he's been super in
for a long time
and it's weird
because he'll swing
from the right side
to the left side
like catch it
and then
he kicks around
the corner too
he knows the hook
back's coming
doesn't he
it's his most
powerful position
to kick
he's
he's
he's a different
kicker in that sense
as well
he doesn't like
kicking straight on
Joey is like that
yeah
he's Joey around
the corner
but they could
smack him far
yeah
well
Daly's often said
that he generates
more power
when he kicks
around the corner
that way
he didn't like
in his early stages
you know
kicking coaches
would come in
and try and get him
to kick straight on
and over the ball
he doesn't like that
you know
he knew his style
from a young age
and stuck to it
yeah
that's crazy
I love
loving his half shots
what about
someone like
Jerome Hughes
plays the seven position
but plays it
in a very different way
and I
I sort of liken him
to a guy like
Michael Vick
who changed
the quarterback position
as a run first
type of player
and like
he'll set up his shades
like the doubles
with the forwards
coming out the back
and he just sets up
that
that
, right foot
all the time
but it's
it's hard to stop
isn't it
how good
has he been
his rise
as a halfback
has been
meteoric
like
yeah
mate
love the guy
again
I've played
played alongside him
in the Kiwis
and can't speak
highly enough
of him
but
yeah
his
his transformation
as a half
has been
yeah
it's just been
super in the sense
that
with all the
information
that's gone in
from Ballyake
and Mel
and playing
in that system
where he's
had to manufacture
a lot of stuff
he's still
never lost
what his greatest
strength has been
which is
you know
his running game
and
it would be
I reckon there would be
so many players
over the years
in our game
that have had
a particular style
natural style
and then had
information
pumped into them
and then lost
what they were
actually good at
yeah
Hughes he's
like he's defied
that really
hasn't he
like
he's growing
his kicking game
to become an elite
kicker in the NRL
his passing game
his you know
yeah his
his overall decision
making and ball
playing
because you've got to
remember he was a
fullback
but then
to have all those
things grow
and then still
possess
the running game
that he had as a
fullback
I reckon it just
yeah
is elite
it's
yeah
it probably sums up
his personality
to a degree
I'd say
what's he like?
well I just reckon
he's someone that
he's not phased
by much
and pressure
doesn't get to him
and
I think that
because of that
he's probably been able
to take in the information
from
Ballyake and Melbourne
and that system
and grow his game
but
still
hold on to
the things that
made him him
yeah he just
hasn't been flustered
by all the information
I don't reckon
and also like losing
like say Munster
hasn't been there
like most of the year
like I knew
Jerome was good
but I didn't know
he was great
like once you remove
Pappenhausen and Munster
and Melbourne still
sit at the top of the table
and he's probably
the main reason for that
he's pretty special
yeah probably
I'll tell you
an interesting story
which stands out for me
and I won't forget it
was
World Cup
yep
2022
over in England
yep
and we hadn't been
playing all that well
we'd
sort of
scraped through
in the pool games
playing Fiji
in the quarter final
you'd remember
yeah
and Fiji were beating us
and we were tipped
to
to thump
Fiji
and you know
roll on to the semi
you know
they had a good side
but
you know
the talk was that
they wouldn't
they wouldn't really
challenge us too much
and
mate we were losing
we found ourselves
like 22-6 down
at half time
and it was almost like
oh my god
because I was on the bench
at the time
I was jersey 14
so I didn't come onto the field
we were playing pretty poorly
and I remember thinking
oh my god
this is our
like New Zealand out
in the quarter final
against Fiji
this will be a huge story
like this will
this will
the country
won't forget this one
you know
this is bad
and I'll never forget
at half time
you know
Madge talking to the boys
about how we were going to
turn it around
and there was still
a great belief
in the sheds
but
it was
Husey's simplicity
that turned that game
and all it took
was him basically
he got
I remember
he got the boys in tight
and he said
boys
we're not
we're not going to try
and score in the first 10 minutes
and turn this game around
he said
you just focus on
running the ball
this is what he's saying
to the forwards basically
you just focus on
carrying the ball
as hard as you can
and you get me down the field
and I'll just keep
putting it in the right corner
and we'll wait for them
to make errors
and then we'll get
our opportunities
but that might take
25-30 minutes
and that was the
Melbourne coming out
I reckon
that was the long game
approach
but if you watch
that second half
that's exactly
what happened
we get into the grind
with Fiji
he kicks
he keeps kicking
he's in the system
he knows it's a long game approach
and Fiji eventually
just come up with errors
and it was a master straight
and I just thought
that was
for me
that was a really pivotal moment
of
looking at Jerome's career
and going
wow
he's grown
like a hell of a lot
into a
a number 7
that can
control
and dominate a game of footy
get the notepad out
eh
what was that Melbourne saying
mate
what was it like
playing for the Kiwis
obviously
like
you guys
I remember that
2013 World Cup
and we played you
in the warm up game
and I remember
looking at your team
and Roos has just
come off a comp
and you and Shawnee
were there
and I'm like
fuck these guys
are going to win it
but what was it like
obviously
playing for Kiwis
captaining them
what was that experience like
I love it mate
yeah I love it
it's a dream come true
every time I get to play
for the Kiwis
I mean
it's what I've wanted to do
my entire life
since I was a kid
and you know
to still get the opportunity
to this day
and play
for them
and you know
I was fortunate enough
to captain them
at a young age
and
you could have been
young as
yeah I was young
I captained the Kiwis
I think I was
still only 22
fuck
when I captained New Zealand
in 2013
I hadn't quite turned 23
and
that
I'll never forget that day
you know
Stephen Kearney gave me
the reins that day
Simon Mannering
had gone down with an injury
and
yeah I just think
every time I've pulled on
the black and white jersey
it's been
a
really pivotal moment
in my career
and
at a moment that I'll never forget
there's been some special campaigns
you know
the 2014
Four Nations
stands out
we beat the Aussies
in Wellington
in the final
the 2015 Anzac
day test
we beat them
and then obviously
the Pacific champs
last year was
was super special
it was like playing in the middle
I actually enjoyed it
it was really funny
how that panned out
and
pretty cool
like I
you know
wasn't expecting to get the call up at all
obviously
Hughsey and
Dill are the halves
and have been for the last couple of years
and then
we've got some good halves coming through
yeah
and then Brandon Smith
and Marshall King
you know
two great
Kiwi Nines coming through
and
yeah
they were ruled out
you know
they were unavailable through injury
and
Madge
you know
I've got a great relationship with Madge
I really admire the guy
and
and
we had some conversations
and he just said to me
you know
I love what you
sort of did for us in camp
and
in the World Cup
in 22
and
yeah
thinking about bringing you in
and playing that
that 14 role again for us
but
I actually changed his mind
I said to him
I remember after that conversation
I said Madge I'm in
I'm playing
I
I'll never turn up
the opportunity to play
for the Kiwis mate
I'm in
but I remember saying
mate
what's your thoughts
about starting me at nine
and he said
geez you're mad Fos
you know
what's your reasoning behind that
I said well
mate I'm not
a natural nine
I'm not going to create
for you out of nine
but I said
what I am going to do
is
I'm going to give you
line speed
I'm going to give you energy
hopefully give you some hit
yeah
you know
and
I'm going to give you some hit
blow
blow the gas out
and then when the game opens up
bring on a natural nine
that can manipulate the run
I'm not going to be able
to do that for you
and I remember him saying
geez that's not a bad point Fos
it's alright
and
as it turned out
I ended up starting
all three games
you know
it was really cool
but
it was just interesting
I think it worked
you know
in the end
I haven't played
much nine
you know
all my career
has been six or seven
and to go into a test match
and play nine
we
had to play
to the style
that suited us
and
I think
yeah
being able to play
to my strengths
in the early part of the contest
was probably
you know
better for the side
than to
have me come on
once the game had opened up
I don't think I could really
add much value there
in the middle of the park
yeah
young Mitch Kenny vibe
one thing that
me and Norm was laughing at
like which
worked really well
for the Kiwis
is obviously when the boys
have a shot down the end
you know how the middle
of the nine holds the middle
and you guys could just
play shape on shape
and it was quick too
because obviously
you'd be able to see it
pretty clearly
if the four man's
inside the post
you're like fuck
give me the ball
we're going
but that edge to edge shape
it was quick bro
yeah yeah
it worked out well
like you said
being able to shift
across the field
you know
me playing in the middle
as a nine
I could hold that
centre part of the field
and get the ball to
Dill and Husey
and yeah
it was
like I said
a special team
to be a part of
so many great
players
in that team
who's
I know we've talked
about Jerome Hughes
a lot
but who's one guy
that really stood out
for that camp
that kind of surprised
you a bit
it might have been
with training ethic
it might have been
a speech on the field
was there anyone
that really stood out
for you
oh look
obviously Fisher Harris
his leadership
was really special
watching him come in
and be camp
captain
and lead the way
that he
you know
leads obviously
week to week
um
gee
someone that stood out
look
yeah
I
it's hard
to pinpoint
um
it's hard
to pinpoint
but
your chance
was someone
that probably
come of age
I reckon
um
I've known
chance
for a while
now
and um
you know
I've watched
his footy
career closely
and I was
actually with him
in 2017
at the Warriors
when he was
a young pup
just coming
through on his
journey
but um
yeah
watching his
footy IQ
and his growth
through that
campaign
was something
that probably
stands out
um
yeah
he's really
like come
of age
as
not just
a running
fullback
but a
you know
he can
he can
ball play
he can
you know
his passes
are silky
yeah
he's got that
nice last
touch now
yeah
yeah
you know
things like
that that he
probably didn't
have a couple
of years
ago
um
in his
you know
in his
repertoire
and he's
got that
now
and yeah
I think
uh
yeah
he's a
player
that stood
out in that
campaign
but um
yeah
there was a
number of
them
love that
was it hard
to leave
Manly
this last
time
nah
the first
time
yeah
extremely
hard
because
the way
I saw
it I
was like
oh
you
like
Cherry Evans
together
whole career
mate
I know
imagine if we
had um
stayed together
it
yeah
it's crazy
to think
but um
yeah
look
at that
time
there was
a lot
of change
going on
at Manly
as a
club
and
um
there was
a lot
of change
going on
in my
life
too
so
it was
a bit
like the
perfect
storm
you know
I
I
probably
wasn't
enjoying
my time
at Manly
like I
had
the previous
years
um
I just
the fire
wasn't lit
um
the way
that it
had been
and
I almost
felt like
the change
was needed
from a
footy
point of
view
um
and then
yeah
I
yeah
I probably
felt at the
time that
yeah
you know
leaving Manly
was the right
thing for me
as a
footballer
that was
the main
decision
behind it
is I
yeah
I just
as much
as I
loved Manly
and I was
loyal to
Manly
and I
wanted to
be loyal
and stay
and be a
one club
man
I
that didn't
overpower
the sense
that I
wasn't
enjoying
myself
the way
that I
had in
the previous
years
and is
that a
combination
of a lot
of things
like external
factors
yeah
there was
a lot
of change
going on
a lot
of personnel
changes
um
a lot
of
you know
a lot
of players
had left
or were
leaving
um
that I
was close
to
um
and
you know
I know
that's
the evolution
of the
game
and that
happens
and now
being older
and being
able to
look at
it that
way
it hurts
a bit
more
when you're
younger
yeah
I think
when I
was still
young
and I
was still
um
you know
immature
in that
sense
where
I wanted
it to be
like it
always had
been
you know
I didn't
have that
life experience
to say
hey
change
is good
and it's
okay
that people
move on
and they
finish up
and they
go to
different
clubs
and for
me
I was
yeah
I was
immature
in that
sense
that I
was like
nah
this doesn't
feel the way
that it did
for me
you know
there's just
there's too
much change
going on
and um
different
things
happening
and yeah
I remember
just thinking
I think
I need
the change
I need
I need
a new
challenge
I need
a new
environment
and for
me
Parramatta
was that
why did
you pick
Parramatta
um
I
I'm a
well Brad
Arthur
was a
significant
played a
significant
part in
that
he'd been
assistant
coach at
Manly
in uh
in 2013
we'd gone
to the
grand final
against the
Roosters
um
he was
assistant
coach
under two
so he'd
done a
great job
and um
I think
when I
looked at
the clubs
that were
interested
at that
time
that
that stood
out to
me
um
I thought
Parramatta
big club
um
really good
roster
like really
good up
and coming
roster
um
and
obviously
what Brad
had gone
there
and
um
I thought
he's someone
that could
take my
game to
a new
level
he's
someone
that can
really
push
me
and change
me
and
um
yeah
great
turn me
into the
footballer
I want
to become
what was
a big
change
from
Manly
to
Parramatta
because
obviously
I was
knocking
around
a few
boys
in the
background
of it
yeah
what was
a big
cultural
change
it was
actually
it was
similar
in the
sense
because
Brad
had
taken
a lot
of
stuff
from
Manly
over
to
Parra
it was
a younger
side
at that
time
a side
that was
still
finding
their
style
and
the way
they wanted
to play
and get
success
but
yeah
really
enthusiastic
side
like just
yeah
really gifted
plenty of
footy
a lot
of footy
heaps
of footy
in that
team
yeah
so
yeah
it wasn't
too dissimilar
in that
sense
but
yeah
I remember
thinking
geez
this is a
good
change
this is
this will
be
this will
be a
successful
footy
club
and footy
you know
team
to be
involved
in
but
yeah
hindsight
obviously
went for
a bit
of a
rough
time
what was
that period
like
for you
looking back
in hindsight
now
it's
really
interesting
when I
talk about
it
because
you know
a lot
of stuff
went
on
that I
was hurt
by at
the time
and pissed
off about
and felt
you know
unfairly
treated
you know
by certain
you know
just sections
of the
rugby league
world
and you
know
ultimately
in the end
I ended up
walking away
from rugby
league
but
I just
think
now
when I
look back
on it
I just
had
so much
success
as a
young
guy
and
everything
had come
to me
so fast
that
I just
hadn't
grown up
like I
hadn't
been able
to
how do I
say it
I just
I just
don't think
I had
I just
don't think
I'd grown
up
and I
just think
I was
caught
in the
just living
life
and just
doing it
my way
and I'll
be right
mentality
and in
the end
I think
everything
just came
crashing
down on
me
eh
and
I just
couldn't
fulfil my
role as
a footy
player
like
there was
too much
going on
in my
life at
the time
that
it would
have been
wrong of
me to
sit there
at para
on 1.2
million a
year
and collect
my
paycheck
and not
be able
to fulfil
my role
as a
captain
and leader
I just
wasn't
behaving
that way
and I
wasn't
performing
that way
and it
was
the timing
of everything
for me
was horrific
at that
time
and a
lot of
people
wouldn't
remember
but I
was going
through
some
relationships
my
relationship
struggles
off the
field
with my
ex-partner
and kids
and then
I was
battling
some of
my own
personal
demons
in terms
of my
drinking
and gambling
and things
like that
that had
probably
gotten
slightly
out of
control
but I
think for
me the
one
constant
that had
allowed me
to always
get through
even the
previous
year's
prior to
that was
that I
always had
footy
and if
you remember
at Parra
I took
a couple
of weeks
off to
try and
get myself
right in
a rehabilitation
clinic and
I came
back and
I did
my shoulder
and I
did it
bad and
I just
think knowing
that I
had a
season ending
injury in
round I
think it was
like round
11 or
round 12
it just
threw me
because I
wasn't in
the mental
state
to cope
with not
having
rugby league
that I
think in
the end
the thought
of getting
through that
without footy
just was
too much
for me
if that
makes sense
it was too
much
it was like
you know
what
nah
I need
to get
completely
away
because
now the
one constant
that I
have relied
on for so
long in my
life was
that 80
minutes every
single week
and that's
why I'm
saying in the
sense that I
was immature
and I
hadn't
grown up
because I
hadn't
learnt how
to find
fulfilment
and other
things in
my life
for me
footy was
that one
thing that
gave me
that purpose
and that
sense of
belonging
and then
when you're
going through
such a
hard time
like that
in your
life
and you're
fighting demons
in your own
head and
you're
struggling
when footy
gets taken
away
that gets
heavier and
deeper and
for me
that was
the place
I found
myself in
and ultimately
that's why I
walked away
from rugby
league
I just
went I
can't do
this
not at
the moment
I don't
even want
to be
alive
let alone
turn up
to training
like and
that was
that was
what I was
being asked
to do
you know
and rightfully
so I was
the club
I was the
captain of
Parramatta
I'd gone
there as a
big money
signing
I was
their half
back
I'd had
been they'd
given me
time off
to fight
my
personal
demons
you know
given me a
couple of
weeks off
then I'd
done my
shoulder
and rightfully
so I
needed to
be turning
up to
training
and leading
by example
and I
didn't even
want to be
near a
training paddock
you know
like it
was so
far removed
from my
mind at
that time
everything had
just been
taken away
and I
just went
nah I
don't even
want to do
this anymore
when you
had that
conversation
with BA
was it
like a
relief
was it
weight off
the shoulders
or was
that just
the start
of darker
days
oh certainly
darker days
followed but
I remember
feeling relieved
at that very
moment that
I didn't
have to
yeah I
didn't have
to have
anything to
do with
rugby league
in the
near future
it was a
weird time
really weird
time I
don't know
if weird's
a word but
just yeah
challenging
and just
almost
like who
would have
thought that
I would have
just walked
away from
rugby league
and
because a lot
of people
wouldn't be
able to
comprehend
that you
know what
I mean
they see
the dream
job the
pay packet
yeah I
walked away
from it
all you
know like
and I
just I
just didn't
want to be
I didn't
want to be
alive let
alone be
a be a
footballer
for me it
was just
yeah at
that time
it's just
so far
removed
I just
I was
struggling to
just get up
in the morning
and just
sort of
try and
I just
had yeah
I had so
much stuff
I had to
I guess
deal with
and everything
had gotten
out of
control
that was
a problem
that was
I'd been
living the
living the
high life
at Manly
and sort
of you
know just
doing my
thing and
not really
focusing on
areas that
were probably
getting out of
control and
things that I
needed to
work on
when was
the sort
of bounce
back and
turn around
and when
did you
start to
see a bit
of light
at the end
of the
tunnel
and did
you always
position
football as
a way to
come back
as a part
of that
rehab
yeah I
think over
time I
realised that
footy was
the one
thing I
did need
in my
life
and that
I still
had stuff
left to
do in
my footy
career
because at
that time
when I
walked away
I was
done
I didn't
care if I
didn't lace
another
boot
that's how
mentally ill
I was
and just
off it
and that
sounds crazy
to say
but I
didn't care
I didn't
want to
play footy
anymore
I felt
content with
what I
had achieved
and what
I'd done
in the
short space
of time
and I
was okay
to walk
away
and sort
of move
into that
next phase
but I
think as
the months
wore on
and I
got slightly
clearer in
my head
I was able
to I
guess find
the love
and enjoyment
in it
again
and sort
of reflect
and go
well
geez
maybe
footy
is good
for me
and maybe
it is
something I
love
and something
I still
want to
do
so
what do
you love
about
footy
it's
just
what I've
wanted to
do my
whole life
I don't
know I
just love
the game
I love
the game
I just
love
competing
I love
trying to
get the
best out
of myself
the players
around me
I love
winning
I love
there's so
many components
to it
I love
training hard
I love
being resilient
and overcoming
challenges
there's just
so much
that goes
into your
footy
career
that I
think
excites
me
and I've
never lost
that
it's
stayed with
me the
majority
throughout
my career
how important
and obviously
seeing you
with your
wife now
and very
happy together
and obviously
gone through
even tough
times
this year
how important
is having
that type
of partner
or supportive
partner
to fulfil
your dreams
and you
support hers
yeah it's
hugely important
I mean
I wouldn't
be here
today
I wouldn't
be playing
footy
if it
wasn't
for meeting
Karina
and doing
life with
her over
the last
seven or
so years
it's been
yeah
I'm
extremely
grateful
and blessed
to have
found that
kind of
love
and that
kind of
connection
with
someone
she's just
been a huge
support in
my life
off the
field
on it
yeah I
think
it's
you know
you've got
to have
someone that
can pick
you up
when you're
down
and someone
that can
keep you
accountable
and someone
that can
you know
love you
through your
dark times
and
yeah she's
been all that
for me
you know
I've still
had plenty
of challenges
through
my life
since being
with her
and plenty
of challenges
professionally
from a
injury point
of view
and not
having contracts
and things
like that
but
yeah she's
just never
allowed me
to think
anything else
other than
I'm going
to keep
going
oh I love
that
yeah she's
just you
know there's
been times
I've gone
nah
it's not
worth it
let's just
walk away
and she
just goes
nah
not doing
it
so
you stay
there
yeah
so
she wears
the pants
ain't nothing
wrong with
that
I think you
appreciate that
as you get
a bit older
yeah no
you certainly
do
it's funny
you appreciate
having a
strong woman
by your
side
that can
yeah like
I said
keep your
head on
and keep
you accountable
it'd be hard
to play
man
it'd be tough
it's a roller
coaster
yeah
I take my
hat off to
all the
partners in
rugby league
really like
it's
as you said
it's a
roller coaster
journey
the ups
and downs
and there's
a lot more
downs
than there
are ups
you know
that's one
thing I can
say
you're
certainly
you know
you're
fortunate
if you
get to
enjoy
quite a
few
ups
in your
career
but a
lot of
it's
yeah
you know
losses
and
injury
setbacks
and
you know
unsure
whether
you're
going to
get
another
contract
and
there's
a lot
of
stresses
that come
with it
sure
and it's
like
a lot
of people
don't
realise
because
I
realised
this
once
when I
was in
football
and obviously
nowhere near
as good
as you
but I
always had
these
psychological
wars up
around me
because
there's
not many
jobs in
the world
where you
judge
like
week
to
week
and
not
only
are you
judged
by
media
by
coaching
staff
by
teammates
like
you have
to go
home
and look
yourself
in the
mirror
too
and
you're
charged
up
on
caffeine
and
post
match
insomnia
and
you
have
to
look
yourself
and
even
if
you
want
to
be
here
so
you
never
like
we
love
all
the
aggression
and
all
those
types
of
emotions
that
we
associate
with
masculinity
but
we're
not
allowed
to
like
sulk
or be
upset
even
if
it
is
for
a
little
bit
because
you
kind
of
got
a
job
to
do
the
next
week
it
is
so
unique
and
as
you
said
it's
it's
unlike
a lot
of
other
careers
I
think
in
the
world
I
think
you've
got
to
be
upbeat
a lot
of
the
time
and
you
not
always
are
you
know
you've
got
to
perform
under
extreme
circumstances
and
things
like
that
it's
very
unique
and
there's
lots
of
challenges
that
go
with
it
what
is
your
advice
to
young
players
coming
through
not
so
much
around
football
but
every
thing
around
it
because
you've
been
the
superstar
the
high
paid
and
everything
has
crumbled
down
what
do
you
say
to
the
boys
are
they
listening
it's
an
interesting
one
I
think
obviously
in
terms
of
footy
my
advice
to
everyone
is
just
work
as
hard
as
you
can
because
I
think
that
saying
is
black
and
white
isn't
it
like
at
the
end
of
the
day
if
you
apply
yourself
and
you
work
extremely
hard
and
you
dedicate
every
ounce
of
your
life
to
something
then
you're
going
to
get
better
at
it
so
that's
always
my
advice
to
young
footballers
coming
through
but
the
best
bit
of
advice
and
the
bigger
piece
of
advice
is
to
continually
grow
as a
human
being
and
be
the
best
person
you
can
be
and
be
open
and
honest
and
talk
and
be
open
up
if you
are facing
challenges
and things
like that
talk about
it
get help
for it
is it
easier to
talk to
someone you
know
or a
stranger
I think
every
situation
is
different
but
I think
you've
got to
work that
out
pretty
quick
and
you've
got to
be
prepared
to
be
vulnerable
and
actually
talk about
things in
your
life
that might
not be
going so
great
because
we
know now
especially
as men
we just
hide
stuff
we just
keep it
inside
we don't
let it
out
we don't
talk about
it
and then
it just
festers
and it
builds
and then
we just
eventually
we just
you know
lose our
shit
or
you know
catastrophically
you know
and fatally
take it
you know
try and
take our
life
or
you know
we lose
people to
suicide
because
we don't
want to
be vulnerable
before that
and actually
talk about
things and
get help
for things
and it's
probably the
best bit of
advice I give
to young men
now is it's
okay not to
be perfect
like you
don't have to
have your
shit together
at 21
22 23
like it
was okay
that I
didn't have
my shit
together
at 25
you're still
a young man
you're still
growing
but
but it's
not okay
to just
let it
keep going
and not
get help
for it
and not
not
yeah speak
to someone
about it
and actually
want to
change the
things that
are going
on in your
life
I heard
someone say
that like
I feel like
everyone should
do therapy
yep
have you done
therapy and is
it something you
continue to do
yeah I've done
therapy over
the years
and it's
something that's
I guess
come and gone
in my life
and it comes
and goes at
different stages
and things like
that but
I certainly
think it's
beneficial
and I don't
think it's
something that
anyone should
feel ashamed
of or
embarrassed
about
because there
is that
stigma
well this
is the
problem
but this
is the
problem
with the
world that
we live
in today
someone says
oh I do
therapy and
someone goes
oh what's
fucking wrong
with you
but why
does there
have to be
something wrong
with someone
to do
therapy
why can't
someone just
be doing
therapy to
get better
as a man
or get
better as
a woman
or get
better in
their
relationship
it's weird
that you say
that because
I've been
thinking about
that recently
and I've got
nothing that I
can really
identify down
to it
but a friend
of mine who's
quite successful
and he goes
I just do
it for
a release
valve type
of thing
it's interesting
you say that
because I've
been thinking
about it
yeah I
just think
you know
it's a big
talking point
in the world
today around
mental health
and the
stigma around
it and things
like that
and it's
it's got to
change
like it's
we've got to
evolve with it
it's got to
change to save
lives like we
just can't
keep talking
about you
know all
these things
have got to
happen and
then people
behave a
different way
or respond
differently to
it you know
like at the
end of the
day we're
all human
beings we're
all trying to
be the best
people we can
be and live
the best lives
that we can
live and it's
okay that
things aren't
perfect all the
time like
there's a lot
of challenges
in the world
man there's
challenges every
day there's
you know
temptations
there's there's
lots of things
in the world
that that
that challenge
human beings
and it's
okay to
to get help
for them or
it's okay to
speak to someone
about it and
actually because
ultimately at the
end of the day we
just want people
feeling good about
themselves and
feeling happy
because that's
what we know
you know that's
when we feel at
our best
that's good to
be around isn't
it you can
sense it you
can sense it
for sure
yeah um
yeah so it's
just yeah i
think it's about
growing in that
space hey
um is there
any ways that
you think of
that we can do
better as a
game in that
space because i
know they do
like the mental
health stuff and
and the rounds
but like that's
great for a
round but i
think
when you're on
your own or
after a game or
after a loss or
after a big
drinking session
or a bender
like that's when
the real time
starts to happen
yeah you know
like i was
talking to someone
about this the
other day and
i was saying
how for in
in in our
in our industry
if if a
player is
struggling
mentally it's
almost like
oh i'm not
sure they can
perform okay
yeah or i
don't know if i
can pick them
or should i
give them a few
days off training
or i feel
like wouldn't
it be great
like in our
game if if
someone was
struggling mentally
and they were
open about it
with the coach
or with the
club that we
almost it was
like nah this
is this is
mad like
so it's almost
like celebrated
yeah like
thanks for being
open you know
thanks for being
open with the
with the coach
and the club
about the fact
that you're you
know you're
struggling at
home with your
partner or
um with with
an addiction
and things like
that but we're
going to get
you you know
we're going to
get you the
appropriate help
but um
but you know
we we know
that you can
you know still
fulfill all your
commitments and
and you know we
know that you
can be you know
one of our best
performers on the
weekend and
can you can you
do that though
because i like when
i think about you
and i just think
about that time
you're going
through you're
still playing good
football yeah
have you watched
david beckham
doco yeah
yeah you know
hey all that
stuff going on
around and when
he's on the
field he could
still perform
well i don't
reckon everyone
could do that
nah well that
it it is
interesting because
eventually mine i
fell off the
cliff didn't i
so like if i
think about that
you know those
last couple of
years at manly
into that time
at para you
know i was
playing great
footy some of
the best footy
in my career
and you know
people were
going oh well
you know jesus
playing good
footy and i
had a shit
storm going on
around me
outside the but
because i never
dealt with any
of it and never
got on top of
eventually i
couldn't fulfill
my commitments
and i couldn't
the commitment
the cliff comes
and you fall off
it um so
and the cliff's
almost probably
higher because of
the level that
you're at
yeah well you're
not judging like
you'll mean to
have battle for
someone who
doesn't play
first grade you
know but yeah
it was kind of
like you were
up there
yeah it was a
fall from grace
wasn't it you
know at the end
of the day the
fall was almighty
because yeah i
just had i
guess yeah just
let it go for so
long and and
not dealt with it
and then yeah it
sort of
hit me all at
once but yeah i
just think there's
there's certainly
a lot more we
can be doing
around mental
health and the
stigma around it
um i feel like
um the young
boys have come a
long way yeah
compared to even
like when we were
coming through
like we're not
that old but
yep you know
what i mean
they're a lot
more open and
yeah for sure
yeah i'll often
have chats you
know to guys at
training and that
and say you know
um how's everything
going in your life
and things like
that stuff that
you wouldn't
really talk about
you know 10 15
years ago and
and open those
conversations up but
it's always good to
know how what's
going on in
people's private
lives what are
they up to behind
the scenes and
things like that
i think if you can
understand and get
to know each other
better than you
can sort of see
the signs and
triggers if someone
is struggling
um yeah but
mate i think our
game does a lot
eh
yeah it's in a
good it's in a
good place you
don't want to sit
around and bag it
because it is
fucking great
no i think we do
a great job with
it eh i think a
lot of the stuff
we do is
yeah hugely
important and
um always raising
awareness for it
are you scared of
transitioning out of
football
not really
oh yes and
no i mean
um it'll be a
big change you
know i've played
now for 16
years
have you
yeah um not
done yet but
yeah obviously
um yeah just
yeah
it'll be a big change
not playing anymore
but i'm excited
for what what's
next like what
what what part of
transitioning scares
you is it like losing
the identity of being
a footballer is it
just playing the game
itself
yeah i think the
idea like the the
weekends will be
tough you know not
not getting up for
games and not having
that constant thing
to look forward to
i think it become a
little bit more
flatlined in your
life you know it
won't be as as we
spoke about the
roller coaster so
you know i think
you know but
there'll be parts of
that that'll be
really positive and
cool too i think
um by the end of
it but yeah no i'm
excited for what
what's next and
and and what i'm
going to do and
obviously i think
i'll stay involved in
rugby league yeah i
can see that for
sure i'm a rugby
i'm a rugby league
nut so i'd love to
you know i'd love
to coach and
and develop players
and and be involved
in that space but
um yeah there
might be other
things i want to
achieve and do as
well you know
outside of footy
but it was um i
remember when i
transitioned out
because i was like i
just wanted my own
time and freedom
back that was kind
of like my big thing
and we can only
travel in october
when go to bali when
everyone else goes to
bali i want to go
coachella but i
remember transitioning
out and i went for
like six months and i
felt fucking lost
because i had no
structure yeah because
we'd literally been
told what to do where
to play how to play
what to say in media
for like i was in
there for like eight
nine years and like
i craved that
structure again so
when i left i used
to plan my week out
like football was
planned out so it'd
be like exercise six
to eight like shit
like that yeah i
reckon that's a big
one i reckon a lot of
footballers go i can't
wait to retire and
just not have that
structure it's bullshit
no that's you become
so used to it that
you need that in your
life and i know i'll
be no different and
i've been found
in right recently i've
just got back into
training and i've
always tried to train
on my own and it's
like it goes against
everything we've ever
done as football
players so i've joined
this gym and there's
a community there and
like in my mind i
think i don't want to
train with these guys
because
they're not footy
boys they don't know
what we talk about
shit like that but you
find yourself having
way more interesting
conversations while
working out they make
you feel like a part
of a team too
yeah it's just hard
to replicate that 80
minutes you know
walking out two
minute bowel fucking
smell
the nerves
i know
and then a chalky
milk after a game
i know
yeah um oh sorry
last question i forgot
about it carter
gordon coming over
i'm i might be
interviewing him soon
but cool i found
that interesting like
a union guy
coming over i think
a lot more of going
to be coming over
mark and i'm going
to need to ask
he's going to the
roosters he's
basically aussie's
best player last
year um what's
your role going to
be with someone
like carter
gordon yeah it's
um yeah i'm not
too sure yet what
my role will be
with with a bloke
like that but i i
certainly know that
um part of it will
be in like
developing helping
develop and and
coach him into his
role within the
side um i'm
excited by it
have you watched
him have you watched
much union i've
seen the highlight
i've seen his
highlights package
and he looks um
it's good bro he's
tough yeah he looks
robust he looks
like he's not
afraid of contact
like he's really
um obviously
athletic and
skillful and things
like that i think
he's going to really
enjoy the transition
i think he's going
to succeed at it
um and yeah i
dare say part of
my yeah role into
next year will be
helping him
transition and
and you know
passing on my
experience and
knowledge onto him
and hopefully help
fast track that a
little bit
what's what's the
two key points
you teach him
first day coming
in about rugby
league oh i
don't know
i was trying to
think of it because
i was talking to
quade about it
there and like
quade thinks he's
going to do really
well because he
sees him as a
leaguey apparently
he's got like this
really crisp silky
pass he goes he'd
be one of the best
passes in the
comp because he
was going to me
he goes who's the
best passer in the
comp and i was
like who do you
think would be the
best passer i
i see the
kalen pong off a
wide forward that
one he can zip
across everyone's
pretty crispy pass
yeah yeah pong
uh moses pretty
fucking crisp too
yeah um
remember jared
mullins like left
to right
oh yeah
pierces yeah
pierces yeah
pierce is probably
great example
yep um
there's been some
good good passes
in league but
yeah i mean i
think yeah the
biggest change for
him well it's hard
to say i don't
know rugby union
all that well i
haven't played much
of it you see so
it's hard for me to
comment but yeah i
think i think our
game in general is
probably a little
bit more um
obviously like end
to end in the
grind not as
many stoppages
um so he's
going to face
the he's
obviously extremely
fit so i think
he's going to
handle the
endurance of it
but it will just
be getting used
to the probably
the right like
the physicality of
it um yeah the
contact
because there's
um obviously
like there's an
illusion of space
in rugby league
and especially
when you play
nrl like they
they see like
their advantage
lines flat so
they play like
three meters off
the advantage
line but they
see that 10
meters back
they're like oh
there's so much
space but it's
an illusion
yeah it's
illusion
because the
ball's played
and the team's
already bounced
to ruck
and then you're
coming forward
so like yeah i
was saying that
to someone the
other day i was
saying like they
look at it and
think we've got
like 10 15
meters of space
but it's
bullshit
it's like when
you start playing
nines are you
like oh let's
go around them
space is an
illusion
yeah it's um
yeah there's not
not too much
space at all
they're in your
face pretty quick
but yeah i'm
excited by it
i'm excited to
see his skill set
and i'm excited
to see him
transition that
into rugby league
terms because
obviously the
games are quite
different um
like the
fundamentals are
similar but the
game itself is
different and
um yeah i'm
really keen to
watch him you
know learn how
to yeah just
inject himself in
a game on a
rugby league
field i was
talking to i was
talking to jordy
barrett um
started this year
and he trained
at melbourne
yeah and i go
like what was
the like big
changes and he
goes he goes i was
surprised like how
much of it is
revolved around
like effort and
where you look at
rugby union it's
all like micro
skills like you
watch your
captain's run it's
like aaron smith's
just on his own
with a trainer
doing his own
passing very much
like nfl like it's
very technical like
line out so they
all break up and
do different things
he said when he
was training with
melbourne like a
lot of it was
just all
around effort and
if like energy and
stuff like that and
he goes i thought
there was going to
be a bit more um
like technical
analysis and i was
like i was like
there is but it's
just effort
yeah it's so true
it's it's hard yeah
yeah i think um
i think our game
is yeah it's
unique isn't it
like it's it's
very cool it's
um it's a
yeah battle of
attrition isn't
it i don't know
i don't know
it's exciting
all right bro i
just want to say
um thanks for
jumping on i know
you don't need too
many podcasts
really enjoyed our
chat and chopping it
up yeah talking
about better shape
and obviously a lot
of experiences you've
gone through so i
appreciate your time
cheers guys
thank you
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