What does it take to lead the Australian cricket team?
And how do you change the way you coach
to deal with the different personalities
that you need to connect with?
G'day, it's Luke Darson.
The idea of self-improvement and leadership
both on and off the field
has been a lifelong passion of mine.
With one of my oldest friends,
we created a leader collective
and have had the privilege of working
with thousands of leaders in education,
sport, industry and the arts
that have helped shift to what we see
as the 21st century style of leadership
where everyone has a voice.
we hear stories from these iconic leaders.
I was lucky enough to speak
with Australian sporting legend
and the current Australian cricket coach,
about how he leads an elite sporting team
full of players with different personalities
and how he takes that leadership off the field.
Well, this is a great honour to speak
to one of the finest sportsmen
that Australia has ever produced
at any sport at any level
and who has now gone
on to be an incredible coach
of the Australian cricket team.
Our speaker, Justin Langer,
whose record speaks for itself.
But the thing that stands out to me,
scoring more first-class runs
than anyone in cricket history
is just a remarkable achievement.
JL, it's a great pleasure
to chat to you today.
Let me put it in perspective, though.
It took Don Bradman about 100 games
and it took me about 1,000 games.
So they'll keep that one in perspective, OK?
Not many people have a list
where Don Bradman's number two
and they're number one, though, JL.
So it doesn't matter
how long it took to get there.
It's a remarkable,
a remarkable achievement.
Perhaps I want to jump to,
you know, you debuted,
I think you're 22 years of age,
1993, the West Indies in Adelaide.
And you go on to play
in one of the greatest teams of all time
with just extraordinary
once-in-a-generation type players.
We're talking about leadership today
in a world of collaboration.
What was the leadership like
for you as a young man
walking into that environment?
I remember Johnny Wilkinson,
the great rugby union player.
And he was once interviewed
by Michael Parkinson.
Michael Parkinson asked him
a similar question.
why did you become a great player?
And I remember Johnny Wilkinson saying,
he sort of thought about it for a while.
you are the changing room
that you walk into.
And what a great way to sum it up.
and I think that's why
I'm so passionate about leadership now.
I walked into a change room
where Alan Borda was the captain.
Mate, tough, tough, tough.
And Bob Simpson was the coach.
And whoa, he was tough as well.
And then you talk about David Boone,
who's become a lifelong friend.
I was actually rooming with Boone
when his father died
of a sudden heart attack.
So these lifelong,
you know, friendships that come,
but just leadership, leadership.
And then we had Mark Taylor,
who was the captain.
And then Steve Waugh, of course.
I mean, Steve Waugh,
if he asked me to run
through a brick wall right now,
I'd run as hard as I could.
That such was my respect for him as a coach.
Then, of course, Ricky Ponting.
You know, great leaders.
And John Buchanan, the great coach.
That's why I was so passionate.
I love leadership
because I was so fortunate
to learn from some of the great leaders
to be in that change room was unbelievable.
I remember talking to Paul Roos
and he had, as a player,
he had a list of things
that annoyed him about
the way AFL footballers,
a legendary AFL footballer, Paul Roos,
played 350 games,
one of the all-time greats.
But there was a lot of things
that he just didn't think
were the right way.
And when he went on to become a coach,
and he kept it with him
that he would never do as a coach.
Was there anything
you could do better as a player
now that you're a coach?
what happens as a player
I mean, that's where
and you learn from success.
You learn from failure.
You learn from watching champions.
You learn from watching
the people who don't quite make it,
who have got great talent.
You just learn and learn.
And then I think what happens, Luke,
and my main advice
for any aspiring leader
and they'd understand
is you've got to know
what you stand for.
So I guess in my learnings
from the people I dealt with
and what I experienced as a player
and what I'd read
and people away from the game
is what I stood for.
I spoke to Paul yesterday
or for some advice
and a few things about our team.
But I know exactly
and I often say to people,
you should be able
to write on a table napkin
what you stand for as a leader.
And when you do that,
what you don't compromise on.
You know what your players
know what is expected.
And then from there,
you've got a good foundation
So have you actually got that, JL,
like your purpose
and visualise that
and write that down.
This is Justin Langer as a leader
and this is what I stand for.
Is that something that you look at?
I can tell you right now.
back on my playing days,
I knew exactly what I meant.
And I think what I've learned
is the champions in life,
whatever they do,
is to simplify things.
So if you had asked me
what my philosophy on coaching is,
currently with the Australian cricket team,
is to make Australians proud of us.
After what happened in South Africa
and I say to our players,
if you wake up every single day
with thinking of nothing else,
make Australians proud.
Because that includes your mum
and your grandparents
and the wider public.
we make Australians proud.
We develop great cricketers
and great people.
Because it's one thing
to be a great cricketer,
but it's very, very hard
to make Australians proud
if you're not a great person as well.
And the other thing is about in sport,
your career finishes
at quite a young age.
So developing as a great person
is important as well.
we do that by the values
or the behaviours of professionalism,
And that's what we're about.
And that's, you know,
and I talk about it all the time.
I can go into a lot more detail
on all those behaviours or values.
I can go into more detail
and make Australians proud
of great cricketers and great people.
But that's what I stand for.
And that's what I don't compromise on.
And that's the foundation
for my leadership.
In this current team.
Yeah, that's such a, you know,
an amazing thing to hear you share that.
And it just sounds so clear.
And you can hear the passion
come out in your voice.
And you mentioned that Alan Borders
and then you played with the Shane Warnes
and, you know, Glenn McGraths
And the list goes on
of just these remarkable players.
And you probably would think
that's just an environment
and everything's happy.
But those teams still have
their great challenges
and there's factions within teams
and there's, you know,
have better relationships
How did great teams
with great players
deal with that sort of adversity
Well, yeah, I mean,
there's no doubt.
I mean, we have challenges
because we're all human
and humans are complex, right?
We can get complacent.
We can, you know,
There's a couple of things
to this question.
I've learned as a coach
is that every single person's different.
So you gotta treat everyone differently.
I've learned that
and like you got four kids,
like I've got four kids
and what I've learned
is that I've got four daughters
that come from the same place,
They're all so different.
So the reason I say that
if my kids are all different,
all my players are gonna be different
and you're gonna treat them
all differently, right?
a lot of the mistake
a lot of coaches,
a lot of leaders make
is they try and treat
everyone the same.
We can't do that.
Shane Moore is very different
than Adam Gilchrist,
who's very different
than Steve Moore,
who's very different
than Glenn McGrath.
Maddy Hayden and I,
we're very different as well.
to know what the,
to know what the expectations are
and then let everyone
within those boundaries
And, and if they step outside of that,
well, then there's issues.
that's the challenge
is to treat everyone differently
and let them weave their magic
in their different style.
Yeah, you and Maddy Hayden scored,
you know, more runs in partnership
than anyone in the,
in Australian cricket history,
the fourth most of all time.
And, but as you said,
there's differences
even in that great relationship.
And did you have your blues?
Did you have your moments
where you guys had to sit down
and thrash it out,
Yeah, every now and then,
but we had a few out in the middle,
but no, actually,
we didn't have our blues.
We just, because we had such trust
and respect and love for each other,
we had to every now and then say,
mate, come on, pull your head in.
You've got to concentrate
or I'd say, mate, come on, come on.
And that was all about our,
the communication,
our relationship.
But I'm not sure about you,
I've got four daughters
for all the women
who are listening to this,
and I love my daughters
more than anything else,
but I know you, Das,
I've got my mates
and my mates in the team,
we don't really argue much.
We just get on with it.
We don't agree on everything.
my gosh, my daughters,
the fighting they have,
and then they've got
their girlfriends at school
it's one of the great lessons of all.
I don't know how they do it.
But so we didn't have
that many arguments,
on a lot of things
or we talked it through
we got on with it.
I do need to ask you
of four daughters.
the beautiful Sienna,
but the three boys
less complicated,
than a 15-year-old daughter.
And I look at you
geez, there must be
some amazing moments
because the father-daughter
is completely different.
It's just so special
and she, you know,
I almost feel like
it's a different parent
you can't compare it
to parenting boys
but God, it's complex, mate.
How does your self-leadership
work on the home front?
There's two things
I learned as a dad
One is how I treat my wife
is very, very important
because how I treat my wife
is how they'll expect
to be treated by men,
which is very important.
The second thing is,
and the number one,
probably in any leadership,
So you know what you stand for,
but two is example.
And the greatest gift
I can give my daughters,
not only how I treat my wife,
but my example to them.
And I think about that thing,
if I'm trying to make them
then I'm doing the right things,
I'm living the right way
and that's hopefully
the example that they'll learn.
So example and knowing
what you stand for,
are as important as a dad
as they are as the coach
of the Australian cricket team.
Yeah, beautifully said.
Such a great, great example
and everyone can relate to that
on the home front.
It's not always easy,
kids pick up on the example,
you can have all the words in the world,
but they follow the example so closely.
I want to just pivot,
Jay, I know you're involved
in a collaboration
I want to ask you about,
pretty exciting thing you're doing
with a handful of other coaches.
You mentioned you're on the phone
but I know regularly
you catch up with a group of coaches.
has a legendary Western Australian,
maybe the greatest AFL leader
in Western Australian history.
Ben Rutten is the current coach
of the Essendon Football Club.
an NRL Premiership coach
for the Roosters two times.
Matt King is his assistant.
who's gone on to the Houston Rockets.
Don Pike is a legend of the West as well
and a great mate of yours
who's just finished coaching
the Adelaide Crows
and now the Sydney Swans.
And a group of you
initially planned to get together
for about eight sessions,
but I understand eight months later
or a Microsoft Teams
Why do you take the time
in your incredibly busy schedule
to collaborate with people
outside of your sport?
It's like medicine.
Honestly, because what happens is,
and Luke, you can see
the painting behind me,
but I've just had a big,
next time we speak,
because I've just been,
the man, anyone out there,
the man in the arena
by Theodore Roosevelt,
and that's going to literally
go on this whole wall.
Because the reason I say
it's like medicine,
it's so nice to be able
to talk to different men
who walk in your shoes.
We all have the same challenges,
we all have the same criticisms,
we all have the same emotions,
but not many people really get it.
But they all get it.
They're all head coaches
and to be able to just talk
and, oh, I'm glad
it's just not me feeling like that.
And just that one thing
we don't do great as Aussie men,
and I've learned this
over the journey,
is we don't speak enough
and to have great mentors
who you can speak to
about things that are topical
or things that relate to you.
I know we spoke earlier,
about your physical
and mental health
and to be able to talk it out
as an Aussie bloke
and to be able to talk to those guys,
oh, it's just gold.
It's honestly like medicine.
we talk about some serious points,
but great mentors.
I wouldn't be here now
without great mentors in my life
and certainly those guys
are turning into great mates
and great mentors for me.
Beautifully said,
Theodore Roosevelt,
the man in the arena.
It's one of the most,
prophetic statements
I think people like you
who spend your life in the arena.
What sort of specific things
a little bit of detail, JL,
that something's happening
and just to be able to bounce it off
someone who's dealing with it
at the same time,
what sort of examples work for you?
Well, I talked about the other day
when we caught up,
I talked about some of the challenges
we've got through this COVID period,
being on the board
of the West Coast Eagles.
I'll never forget, Luke,
we had the first game
of the AFL season,
Adam Simpson had got me to,
due to speak to the West Coast boys
the morning before the game,
give them a bit of a rev up
and the night before on the Friday,
we had an emergency board meeting
and I had my jaw on the table
when they were telling me
of what could happen
if this COVID takes off
and the AFL season
doesn't go ahead.
I couldn't believe
what I was hearing.
we've seen what's happened to COVID.
the reason I say that
is to be able to talk
to Trent Robinson
from Rugby League
like we're going,
and to be able to talk about that
and then the challenges
and the complexities
and how we deal with it
and how the guys dealt with it
and how we've dealt
with it in the past
to be able to talk about that.
I talked about the hysteria
we talk about the man
There's so many critics
and with social media
and media out there now,
how do you deal with it?
Our players find it really hard
they're the sort of topics
We talk about list management.
how the guys came back
after that six weeks
how they did their training,
like their physical training,
what they did to get them ready
we had to do that
with our fast bowlers.
the progression of leadership,
the question of culture,
we can talk about that
they're the sort of subjects
Sometimes it's formal,
sometimes it's very informal
and it's very conversational.
I take reams of notes
that just helps me
the old style of leadership
was hierarchical.
and I've got my subordinates
and you take your instructions
I probably grew up
in an AFL environment
pretty much the norm.
you didn't get a lot of,
collaboration from a player
or you certainly didn't see
Why are you passionate
about that model, JL?
collaborating with other equals
The hardest thing
about leadership,
is you've got to make
the reason I love collaboration
and I've got some,
I've got some guys
and outside of our tent
that I talk to a lot
about cricket decisions,
the leader has to make decisions.
But to be able to talk
to people who I trust
because when you make a decision
and you want to make sure
you're not being blinded by,
whether it's loyalty,
what the media is saying.
I've got a number of people
and outside of the camp.
and that's crucial,
because you want to verify
you have to make the decision.
I just love listening to you
every time you speak.
yesterday I reached out
or I was in town,
so I wanted to learn from,
what about your learning?
How do you go about doing that?
Is it always looking,
if the opportunity
to learn from someone else?
I've always been a reader.
and I've got this great room
when we built this house,
when I was still playing,
it's a five by five metre room,
which was like my old,
that I had in the old house
before we knocked it over
and it turned into my gym,
I'd train up there
the very first day
we moved into the house,
I got a permanent mark
and wrote across the door,
the pain of discipline
the pain of disappointment
and I picked that up
and my wife went,
what have you done?
This is a beautiful new house.
that room now has turned
from over the 20 years
we've lived here,
to a 10 by five metre room,
which then became my study
and now it's a 15 by five metre room.
and you should see it,
in permanent marker
that I've written about
of lessons of my life
that I've learned from people
and now my daughter lives up,
my 24 year old daughter
whatever you want up here,
but you cannot touch the walls
I'm going to sit in the middle of it
and I'm going to write a book
about lessons I've learned.
and I've always said,
I hope the last day I coach,
I'll still recognise myself
as a novice coach.
I want to keep learning
and in the COVID period,
some of the people I learned,
you've got to be,
have the courage to reach out.
I'm fortunate in my,
that I can reach out to people,
but I love talking to people.
I love my journals.
I take that many notes
and a lot of it goes up on my walls,
whether it's quotes or scriptures
or poems or lessons.
And it's a really,
it's an inspiring place
up the back there.
We'd love to see a photo of that,
that'd be brilliant
the personal information away.
the hard decisions
you've got to make?
You're an Australian cricket coach.
You've got to tell someone
they're not coming on tour.
They're not in the side.
You're on the receiving of that yourself
as every sportsman is at some stage.
How do you deal with,
with those conversations?
One of the first things
that Sir Alex Ferguson said to me,
literally in three minutes,
and I don't even know how it goes.
there's my next tattoo.
and they're back up
these things are really hard, Luke.
But what I've learned,
one of those values
in our behaviours
It's not just honesty,
meticulously honest
A lot of people aren't,
but you've got to look
at the Australian way
someone in the eyes
and tell them the truth.
And that's the best way.
At least you can sleep well.
They know where they stand.
They know where they're going.
And I promised my dad
when I became a coach,
I promised my dad
that we would be,
with communication,
honest communication
because my experience
is often it was just,
you either read it
and make more runs, son.
the pact with my dad
is I'll always be honest
it's a learned skill actually.
Believe it or not,
the great Wayne Bennett
just remember Justin,
you're not dropping them.
They're dropping themselves.
You've just got to communicate
that they've been dropped
because you don't get rid
who are performing well
or who are good people.
You're just the one
who's got to tell them
because they drop themselves
as you said at the start,
sometimes a simplification
from that message
uncommon sometimes.
I can remember being
was a pretty hard thing
I loved the Amazon
eight-part test series,
produced by Adrian Brown
who's a friend of mine
and a great film producer
with the whole family
and they loved it.
It was just an incredible,
brilliantly produced
and we got a great
and I thought you came across
vulnerable and open
collaborative and raw.
What was that experience like
opening yourself up
to the cameras in that way?
when I did my very first
as the Australian
and there was a lot going on
with what had happened
I got in the taxi
and it was a whirlwind
and I got in the taxi,
I flew to Melbourne,
did the press conference
and I'm driving back
and there's a guy
he's asking me questions
and I'm getting filmed
we get to the first tour
and there's Andre
and I had no idea
we were doing a documentary
and Andre was literally
for the first 18 months
it was really confronting.
how it was going to come out.
I was going to be nervous
would be perceived.
how I'd be perceived
they did a great job
and the feedback from it
was extraordinary.
a great archive for me
opening yourself up
but I was thankful
how it came across.
I was really nervous
but it came across well.
One of the funny things,
standing at the front
and I rang Adrian
two things happened.
we were able to watch them
before they came out
and after the first
or second episode,
my third daughter, Sophie,
she got this funny look
this is the first time
I've ever seen you angry
I can't believe you get angry
that was hopefully
a compliment for me
but that's what happens
and the second thing was
there was an episode
where Nathan Lyon
in that amazing test match
We lost an unlosable
I kicked the rubbish bin
you can't put that in.
people think I'm a psycho.
Please don't put that in.
what you did next?
has missed this run out
we're going to lose the Ashes
and what do you mean
I kicked the rubbish bin.
I look like a psycho.
with three runs out,
you picked up all the rubbish
and you put it back in
and you talk about humility.
There's humility right there.
so they left it in there
and the amount of people
what about when you
kicked the rubbish bin
and then you picked up
to be a great documentary.
It was confronting.
I was nervous about it,
but they did a great job.
of the great moments,
that rawness in you,
and to see it come out
and is it something
that you do more of?
as someone who loves
learning like you,
and just absorbed in it
that you've given other people.
the doors were closed
and it wasn't something
that we were able
wouldn't you love
the legendary NFL coach?
Wouldn't you love
of Sir Alex Ferguson?
You got a great lunch,
but wouldn't you love
time capsule pieces?
you see as you're
being more open to?
looking at doing it again.
the Michael Jordan
how good was that?
great documentaries.
the way of the future.
But to be honest,
at the end of it,
he was one cameraman
and he was actually,
a stand-up comic,
part of the team.
He's told the joke
for a year and a half.
but he become part of it
and that's how I operate.
You talk about collaboration.
I think you have to,
you've got to treat people
and make them feel special.
I'm sure we'll do it.
I'm sure it's the way
forward in the world,
you've got someone
filming everything you say.
But we've learned
from the last one
if people want it,
then that's usually
for Andre the cameraman
to be able to tell
the joke every day
in the Australian
He did a remarkable job.
You saw in that documentary
before we started talking,
and your schedule
as a young cricketer
you've been travelling
your childhood sweetheart,
and your four daughters.
the balance right
between achieving
what you have achieved
and continue to achieve
and the family time?
there's a couple of things
staying connected
more than an attitude
because we've got,
the fact we're sitting
doing this interview,
I'm in my office,
you're in your office there.
staying connected
is purely an attitude
and I learned this
when I was 16 years old,
I went to England
for the first time
and I ran a school boys tour
saved up her cash
to send me there.
I got a hundred at Lords
one thing about the hundred.
I don't remember one ball.
I don't remember anything
but what I do remember
after the innings
to the red phone box
and the nursery oval
and I reverse charged
called on my mum and dad.
you don't believe,
so it was probably
three o'clock in the morning
oh, is everything all right,
darling, what's happened?
I got a hundred at Lords
and they're so proud of me,
I just remember that feeling
and it's driven me
and I spoke to my,
until my mum died
I spoke to my mum and dad
and I do with my wife
every single day since
it cost a lot of money
if there's one sacrifice
I will always stay connected
and now with FaceTime
staying connected
so that's one thing.
I remember Steve Waugh,
I asked Steve Waugh
a similar question,
probably when Jesse,
my first was born,
and he had three kids
how do you do it, mate?
I look at it like this,
if I'm going to sacrifice
being away from my family,
I'm going to put everything
into being the best batsman
I'm going to put everything
I can into being the best
I can possibly be
because they'll get benefit
and if I'm going to make
the huge sacrifice
of being away from my family,
I'm going to put everything,
I'm going to make
some sacrifices myself.
that was great advice.
that they're proud of me
by me doing the very best
either as a player
Australian career coach.
Beautifully said,
every day on tour,
all four daughters,
and it's fantastic.
there is not one single day
I'm not in contact
with my whole family.
I do it with my mates as well.
when we spoke about
is there's two things
that you've got to look
after your health
and your relationships
because after I finish
or after I finish
coaching the Australian
the things that are going
to be most important
to me are my family
you've got to be on that
every single day.
and the Australian
that you talked about
They are literally,
they are literally
like my brothers.
I spent more time
with my blood brothers
that for granted.
takeaway from sport
and what a privilege
friendships for life
Just quickly touch
before I do that,
these mates to us.
six flags together
and they're still
I'm from cricket.
They're my best friends.
and the friendships
they are literally
the Warwick Black
six premierships,
a good junior club
you're running there,
What sort of AFL player
was young Justin Langer?
cricketer one day.
CEO of the Dockers,
When he was a kid,
mates ever since,
that's why I love
you had a serious
health self-issue.
Can you share with us
I kept having all these.
when I was in England
now as I know it,
after the World Cup
and it was the day
announcing the Ashes squad.
We had all these players
wake up at three o'clock
and the room was spinning
like I was blind drunk
and every time I sat
I couldn't stand up
feeling all seasick
and then I thought
I had a brain tumour
had a brain tumour
when he was about my age.
I was stressing out
and the other thing
about being an Aussie bloke
is I kept putting
the mask on every day
so that was taking up
not just the physical side
of it was affecting me
but also the mental side
because it was so tiring
having to put the mask on
like nothing was wrong.
I've got great advice.
some great medical,
who have helped me
and they've put me
on some medication
and they've helped me
with some different
to make sure I stay
when you're going through it.
I've got six questions
makes up the dimensions
of great leadership
with the first one?
What does self-leadership
I go back to that
one of the mottos
the pain of discipline
the pain of disappointment
you've got to lead
You've got to make
disciplined choices
makes sense to me.
There's an old saying
and walk mediocrity,
but a common liar
and what I've learned
Anyone can talk tough.
but actually doing it.
great mate of mine
who's from the SAS,
most people can live
can live the reality.
So a lot of people
want the green beret
or the baggy green cap
or drive a Mercedes Benz
or live in a mansion.
Most people can dream
can live the reality
of what it takes.
and self-awareness
and self-discipline
in self-leadership.
positively impact
others in your environment?
Believe it or not,
the most important thing
about leadership,
one of the most important
is caring for people.
Caring for people
and making people
I've talked a lot
Some of the mentors
have been the ones
who have been toughest on me
the people I respect
and my best friends.
they were tough on me
because they cared for me.
And so caring for people
how you show people
great leadership.
How do you go about
creating and sharing
Well, you've got to be
it's easy to anyone,
you'll appreciate this,
you have a pre-season
and you all sit around
and this is our mission state,
and these are our values
and you put them on
big fancy posters
and you sit there
and you sing Kumbaya
and you all feel happy about it
and you all think
It actually means nothing
because unless you live it
every single day,
it's like toilet paper,
and the fancy tattoos
and the fancy posters
and around the walls
unless you live it
The key is to live it
and everyone wants
but you've got to live it
every single day.
very important part
of selling your vision.
but then you've got to live it.
And what's your approach
to learning and improvement?
I think you've guessed here
that it's an everyday thing.
One day when I retire,
I hope I'm still saying
I'm a novice coach,
ever stop learning
and the greatest learning
comes from living it
and learning about winning,
learning about losing,
We've just had a test series
where we lost to India.
You know, a series,
you could say we should have won
and my gosh, it hurts
and you crawl into the cave
and then you've got to
dust yourself off.
I learned it as a player
and the greatest learning
is that when it's happening,
it's a horrible feeling
I look at it as a 50-year-old now
and the times I was dropped
or the times I failed
was I learned the most about myself.
I could either quit
or I could get better
and one week ago,
and I asked myself the same question.
What are you going to learn from it?
Do you quit or you get better?
life is the greatest teacher
and if you surround yourself
with great people
then you literally learn
every single day.
Every single day of your life.
How do you communicate
Clarity comes from honesty.
I honestly believe that
that if you look a person in the eye
and tell them the truth
and sometimes that's hard as well
and everyone says,
oh yeah, I want to tell the truth.
It's that easy, is it?
But it actually is.
My nana, my great nana,
you've got a choice.
You can either tell the truth
or you can tell a lie.
you've got a choice
which one you're going to do.
It's much easier to tell the truth.
If you might not think it at the time,
but it is because you sleep well,
you don't have to have a good memory
because you just tell the truth.
So honesty is clarity.
Beautifully said.
How important is collaboration
and how do you do it?
Yeah, collaboration's important,
but recognise that the people
you collaborate with
should be the ones you trust the most
because ultimately your head's on the line.
You're the one who's going to make the decision.
Decisions always have implications.
So show people respect,
listen to their opinions,
but then understand as a leader,
you have to make the decision.
You have to make the call.
It's the most important thing about leadership.
You have the courage to make the tough calls.
JL, thanks so much for sharing your time.
It's been a great pleasure to listen to you
and I feel informed.
I've got lots of things to take away from our chat
and you're certainly doing your job
of making Australians proud
of the Australian cricket team.
It's become a great sanctuary
to watch cricket under your leadership
and I'm sure you'll be doing that too.
And to have followed you from a very young age
and to have seen your incredible success
and to know a bit more about your journey now
has been a great experience.
So thanks so much.
I really appreciate your time today.
No, thanks, Luke.
Empowering Leaders was presented by me, Luke Darcy,
produced by Matt Dwyer
with audio production by Darcy Thompson.
To start your leadership journey,
I encourage you to go to elitacollective.com,
take our Empowering Leaders Indicator tool
and understand the impact you have on your environment.
Join us at Elita.
To learn, lead and collaborate.