This week's episode of the Empowering Leaders podcast is with Jason Kimberley, the founder
of Cool.org, a remarkable organisation that has had a huge impact on teachers and education
in Australia and around the globe.
Cool.org supports educators with teaching resources and the impact that it's had on
student engagement and understanding of critical issues is a really profound story.
Jason shares his eclectic lifestyle, his unique, Jason, the way that he approaches things,
including the incredible story of how he ended up having a picnic on the SCG mid-game
post the celebration of Buddy Franklin kicking his 1,000th goal in AFL football.
You need to hear that story.
Worth tuning in for that one alone.
I think the thing I take away mostly from Jason is that he has a real true sense of
self, not caring at all about what other people think and really taking responsibility for
I'm sure you're going to enjoy this conversation with Jason Kimberley.
It's conversations like this.
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Jason Kimberley founded Kool Australia on the back of a life changing trip to Antarctica
Kool.org as it's now known through its online free platform has supported more than 175,000
educators around the globe with teaching resources in their classrooms that have created better
student engagement and a greater understanding of critical environmental and social issues.
355,000 students.
355,000 students.
32,000 lessons were downloaded from the website in 2022 alone.
It would go on to be one of Australia's great business success stories when it was
Jason's eclectic life has seen him publish two books work in a diverse range of fields,
photography, stockbroking, roof repairs, cattle herding, restaurants, fruit picking and a number
of quite unique adventures around the globe. Jase, it's great to see you. I look at your 56
years. You've crammed a bit in, mate. Does it feel like you've led a full life?
It does. It has been busy. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine the other
day and I said, geez, you're busy. She said to me, no, I'm not busy. I've just got a full life.
So I think you can sort of tip over to be busy, busy for busyness sake and everything's
urgent. Nothing's important, but I do like to fill up the calendar. And if there's a spot for
myself, I'll take a little bit of a lie down. But generally, I like to put something in there
that's going to require a bit of energy and excitement. I like that, Jase, isn't it? I'm
not busy. I'm just leading a full life. I rail against that a bit too. And I find it a bit
confronting when someone says, geez, you're busy. And so I'm trying not to be, but there's
so many good things I love doing, mate. I just want to keep following. Is that how you sort of
live life? Yeah, I think, you know, look, you're a long time Ted Darson. Everyone has
their different beliefs, but I'm of the school of once the light's out, the light's out. So
let's dig in and make the most of it. And if I can squeeze three or four or five into one,
well, you know, that's good fun for me, but it's also good for, you know, the people around you,
you know, your kids and the other people in your life, your friends, your family,
your colleagues at work, when they see that you're up and about, and we'll get onto leadership a bit
later, I suppose. But when you're up and about, those that are around you are up and about,
not that you're the centre of their universe anyway, but all the people
someone's orbit, if more of them are up than down, well, those individuals are going to be
travelling better as well. So I like to try and be up, not just for myself, but for all those
in my life that I come across. And Jason, I think there's probably
to change tact, you know, quite dramatically, but we probably all have these crucible type
moments in our life that shape us. And brother Marcus was born with brain damage and passed
away at the age of eight. How did that shape your life from that moment on? So he was born with
brain damage and mum had said very on to doctors, something's not quite right here. And they said,
oh, you know, you're a worrying mum, you know, well, you know, go home and don't worry about it.
You know, it's a kid, you know, work it out. And, you know, something was wrong and they had all
the tests done and he was brain damaged, but they didn't work that out till I think he was maybe 18
months or two years old, slow developmentally. And it was a real challenge for the family,
you know, for everyone. But it also created a great opportunity for our family and for friends
of our family to get involved.
What was called Marcus's program. He, um, you know, he wore a crash helmet, he couldn't walk
properly, had calipers on. And, um, uh, we had 120 people. There's a big program on the wall
that said Marcus's program and 120 of mum and dad's friends would rotate through the house
every day of the week for anywhere between two and four hours, uh, doing different stints,
exercising him, you know, feeding him, help. It was just, it was too much for, um, the four of us
to manage. And, uh, mum and dad and Colin, I certainly didn't want to put Marcus in a home.
We kept him at home and, uh, he lived a, uh, as good a life as he could off with us. You know,
it was pretty rugged. Uh, you know, we'd have to have a tube put down his throat and have,
you know, mucus sucked out of his lungs cause he couldn't clear his lungs properly. Um, he had very
little speech, but you know, he could communicate and let us know how he was feeling. But it was,
I think, um, something that, uh, instilled in me was that, um, that battler, that underdog,
that person who hadn't had much of a, a chance in life and it had a different sort of, um, start to
you know, I would, uh, kids would mock him and, you know, pull faces at him and call him Marie or
whatever it was back in those days. And I'd cross the street and confront them. You know,
this little lippy seven year, eight year old kid to go, what are you staring at mate? And give him
a bit of a shove in the chest. And by that stage, their parent would be going, Oh, he's saying,
I'm back up mate. And I said, well, that kid's staring at my brother. And I think that really
instilled in me a, um, a real importance of giving those with less opportunity, uh, a chance to, uh,
to do the absolute best they can. And I think that's what sort of steered me ultimately in life
into this education, um, a caper and helping others be their best.
And knowing you over the years, Jase, that makes sense. I can see that, you know, maybe a chip on
your shoulder a little bit. I could imagine you sticking up for anyone. And I love the community
part of that story. And I, you know, it's a small city, Melbourne. I remember my, uh, Beck, my
mother-in-law, Beck's mum was part of that community in Brighton. It's, it's a great reflection on your
story. And I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think
that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think that's, I think
people plus jump in and just say, Hey, the Kimberleys need some support here. We're all on
the roster. That is a beautiful story, isn't it? Yeah. And it was, I mean, all those people were,
you know, part of our lives. They'd come through. Sometimes their kids be with them. Our home was a,
a real high, a hive of activity. There was always something, uh, you know, going on. It was, you
know, there was never a dull moment. Mum and dad, you mentioned that mum and dad started Just
Jeans. They started with my dad's brother, Roger and mum's sister, Chrissie. So there was four
founders. The four of them started it together. And, um, when they were doing that, starting a
new business in the early seventies, dad was working two jobs and, you know, it was Marcus
at home and, uh, yeah, it was just a really full life, Dars. Well, you, you, you mentioned the
family, uh, business. It's an incredible Australian success story, really, in lots of ways. And,
but in, in some ways I imagine it's a pretty big legacy to carry, isn't it? Uh, the, the Just
Jeans, uh, story. And I, I read in preparation from this, a quote from your dad, Craig, he said,
and correct me if I'm wrong, he said, it wasn't until you turned 30 that he realised you weren't
him. Was that difficult? Um, I, well, I was sort of, you know, unaware of that. So it was a bit
of a revelation for me when he told me, and, uh, I, um, had a chat to him about it the other day.
He said, oh, gee, mate, I thought that might've been a bit private. I said, oh, maybe we'll know
with the open book here. Um, uh, and I said, I think it speaks volumes to,
our relationship, we've got a fantastic relationship, but I think lots of dads,
you know, who have, uh, particularly the, um, the, the so-called sort of self-made, um, people,
they, they have a bit of a different approach to life, you know, that they've done it their way.
And I only know my way, cause that's, you know, all I've ever experienced and all I've ever known,
but it was a great conversation starter for dad and I. And I said, oh, dad, you know, what,
what was it that made you realise what made that? He said, oh, you just weren't the same,
mate. You just said, I said, yeah, but you might've picked that up a bit earlier. And he goes,
but I was just, I just didn't want to see it. You know, I just, I just thought you might've been
me. And I said, well, now that I'm not, are we okay? He said, oh, we're better than okay. We're
great. You know, but, um, it was just, you know, I suppose I hadn't realised it was probably just
that last little step. And he said, you know what, I've, I've tried my hardest, but it's,
I, it's, he's not me. And, uh, he's got to run his own race, which, which I'd done largely,
but it was just a moment of revelation for dad really. And, uh, uh, and it was great.
We had a bit of a chuckle about it and, uh, I said, well, that explains a lot. And on we moved.
Well, it's the parenting puzzle, isn't it? Uh, Jase, when you, you know, and I, uh, without
knowing your dad, you can see this, trying your best, aren't you? You, you, you doing what you
know. And, you know, I, last time I saw you, I think was at a barbecue over the summer and,
you know, your dad's in his eighties and, and he was locked in to pick you up at midnight. And,
and I go, not many, not many eight year old dads are still doing that for their sons. So clearly
there's a connection there that's special, but perhaps it took him a while to work out that
he had to let you be you. Yeah, no, but definitely always had a great
But, you know, there's certainly a divergent paths and that was quite entertaining on you.
How are you getting home, Jase? Oh, the old man's picking me up. I've got a midnight curfew.
When I was 18 again, mate, I couldn't.
I felt like I was. It wasn't a bad night, Daz.
Um, you, I mentioned in the, in the preview there about you going fruit picking and cattle
herding and a range of different stuff. You owned a brilliant restaurant called Roludo
for a number of years.
We had some, everyone had a good time. There over the journey, a famous place in Melbourne,
You try to find the, the path of passion.
Um, yeah, I think, uh, when I look back on, you know, um, my, since I've left school,
I've, I've tended to do things for maybe two or three or four year bursts at the most.
And, um, I, I looked at people when they left school and looked at guys who went into certain
careers and they just did that thing, the same thing for 30, 30 years.
And I go, God, well, after 30 years, you'd want to be bloody good at it, wouldn't you?
And I thought, you know, I reckon, not, not seriously, I'd mastered him.
But I had a good enough handle on things after three or four years to say, well, I've got
a good enough handle on this.
It's not really exciting me.
I could stick at it for another 20 years and become that expert, but that's not interesting
I'd rather keep having challenges and do difficult things and have that for life.
I think when you're on top of your job and you're coasting, um, we're not really adding
You're not really adding to society.
And, uh, I don't think you're being as productive as you can.
So I think if you've got the wherewithal and the go in you.
I think it's sort of impingent on you to make the most of it and, and have a red hot
So yeah, I got halfway through my first year of uni and, uh, announced to mum and dad,
I was, I was off.
I loved school, did well at school, but I failed my first subject, you know, in my life
And I thought, okay, this is no good.
I'm clearly not paying attention.
So I packed up my bags and went off to the Northern Territory with a mate of mine and
spent two months on a cattle station and then went over to Northern Queensland and pick
fruit for a couple of months.
And it was just, just a wonderful liberating experience.
And that education of that sort of four months was as good as I reckon I could have
gotten another two and a half years at uni.
People would debate that, but I'm a big believer in the, you know, the JK MBA of life
just as it comes, absorb it, do as much as you can, learn as much as you can from it,
be curious and just, you know, keep on learning and keep on improving.
It reminds me, as you're speaking of one of my great friends in life, I interviewed
on this Craig Ellis.
I played with it, the Bulldogs for a hundred games and founded a business called Triangle,
It's been a great success, but he, one of those people that the gap between him thinking
he wants to do something and actually doing is about three seconds and you sit with him
and he go, I always thought about flying a plane and two hours later he's soaring, you
know, and then he'd go and do that for 18 months as quick as you can get a commercial
pilot, get to the end, spend his life savings and go, yeah, not for me.
And we're going, wow, mate, did you need to do all that?
But that was him.
And then he'd go and chase something else and all in on everything.
But the curiosity of, of, and then when he found it, he was like, oh, I'm going to
And I suppose it probably led to, to Cool.org, didn't it?
Cool Australia, Cool.org as it is now.
So it's an incredible contribution you've made.
You must be really proud of what it's achieved.
Where did that come from?
Well, there's sort of a level of pride, but there's also a level of understanding that
you're never finished.
You know, it's always ongoing.
It can always be better.
So, you know, it is important to stop and celebrate along the way.
And we do that pretty well at the office and get a few back to the air bar, the nightclub
I've got at the back of my place.
It's a little speakeasy, which is good fun.
But yeah, it's, I think it's, it's about just the sort of continual renewal, I think, of
yourself and finding sort of more reasons to, to go and get in and encourage those around
I think that's a really important part of leadership.
You need to be flexible.
Some days it's setting the example.
Sometimes it's, you know, I don't think you can underestimate the importance of being
a dickhead as a leader, you know, be that, do the stupid thing, be that guy who's just
so authentic, but also human and can make, make blues and make silly blues and, you know,
be happy to embarrass yourself in front of your team, you know, so, and I've done that
plenty of times, I can assure you.
So look, I can't remember your question, Darce, but.
I was talking about the passion for Cool Org and, you know, to me, look at your life and,
you know, there's a range of things you could have done.
An online teaching platform that is, you know, I said in the intro, 175,000 educators around
the globe use it.
We've got a crisis, I think, in teaching.
Here in Australia, where teachers are just piling out of their profession into other
areas, they're probably underpaid, they're seriously overstressed, and you've given this
free hit to them of a resource that's, it's had a massive impact.
Where did that come from in you?
Why did you see that as being important?
Well, I think it was a flow on from school.
I just love school.
You know, my sister would say I was the teacher's pet, you know, always sitting up the front
and, you know, greasing up to the teachers to get a good mark or, you know, putting in
So I just love school.
And I think it's an extension.
And that, I think it's natural curiosity.
I don't, I don't know if you can teach it, but I'm just naturally curious.
I'll see something.
I want to know why it's happening.
You know, everything from a road work going on to why is that sign saying that?
And my brain just doesn't stop.
And so to me, it's been a really great channel.
And when we came back from Antarctica and asked teachers, you know, what are you learning
about, you know, climate and the world around us, water, waste, energy, biodiversity, and
the message from teacher mates of mine was, oh, don't do this, don't do that.
By the way, 10 easy tips to save the planet.
I thought, God, if I was a kid at school, nothing could be more demoralizing.
And I, but it's all over, is it?
Um, you know, uh, or, or there's 10 easy tips out of it.
I thought that doesn't sound right.
So I did a lot of research and, you know, asked some mates who were, you know, um, uh,
lecturers and scientists and that sort of stuff.
And they said, look, we're, we're, we've got a lot of, um, uh, things we need to be better
at looking after our, our life support system, our planet, you know, the planet's going to
It's, you know, humanity that's, that's in trouble.
We get that sort of the wrong way around often.
So, uh, I just thought, and then I said, what's been taught in schools and it was very
negative, um, and, uh, not very positive messaging.
So I thought there's an opportunity to speak in plain English.
I don't care what anthropogenic means that needs to be, that needs to be say human caused
and no one knows, you know, don't use any words that no one made, even a kilowatt people
struggle with, get out all the words that no one understands, make it simple, talk with
a smile on our face, engage it, have a special wow factor and make it everybody's business.
You know, all the, the math teachers, English teachers go, what's this got to do with me?
And then it moved.
On to the social and economic issues does.
So all the big social economic and, um, environmental, uh, challenge of our time of which there are
many, um, I don't think we can solve them if we don't have an informed, um, populace
and we know what's going on.
And when we do our research and ask teachers, you know, how are the kids going with it?
And as expected, sort of, you know, 90% improved outcomes, 90% greater awareness, more likely
to work in teams.
But when we ask teachers, how has it impacted you?
85% said I've changed my view on the issue.
I mean, that's a, that's a fair.
And I, I, that was really one bit of research.
We've been doing research for 15 years.
It really gobsmacked me was we'd actually, um, teachers have changed their mind on issues.
So that says to me, where were they getting their information from?
Um, was it just the loudest noises in the media?
Were they, were they reading old textbooks?
Were they just not informed?
So that to me was a result of that.
We've got a huge opportunity and also a responsibility to get know the right information out there.
When I say the right information, the science, the accepted knowledge of the time on what
are things, and that's always evolving.
And as the science change a pit views can change, but no pin opinions aren't worth equal
You know, there's, there's a dark, there's an opinion or a viewpoint with key data points
And there's someone just saying something because it backs up their ideology.
They're very different things.
So you've got to separate that out and give the, let the kids decide, give them the data,
give them the information and they can tap away on a data set on the, say, for example,
the tuna catch in the Pacific ocean, the legal, the illegal and the quota.
When they tap around the data, they put up their hand and go, I miss we're catching too
And that's really powerful learning when the kids come to their own determination.
So that's what, um, as the band, I suppose, the real Genesis of, of call and what it's
based upon that sense of humor, kids come to their own determinations, talk with a smile
on our face and talk in plain English, you know?
And what a great, as I said, contribution that you've made and you hear people that
have done a lot of things in their life, but actually some go back to teaching late in
That's the greatest thing that they've ever done about a pass on wisdom to the next generation.
And I think we all got a bit of a look into teaching through the COVID period because
all our kids were online.
I had four at home, homeschooling.
And so you couldn't help, but walk past the door and you'd listen in on a lesson.
And I got this incredible respect for teachers at another level again, going what they're
able to do to change gear in that time and run their class.
But also this incredible thought of just how stressful a profession it is.
And, and, and I think what you're doing is what you'd hope.
And also listening, going, God, that's the same textbook from 1990 and it sounds eerily
And it didn't make a lot of sense in 1990.
Can we get world experts back into the classroom to share, as you said, what is, you know,
great knowledge and great storytelling around because the world's shifting in it as it always
So I think, you know, now your, um, you know, your platform has provided these free resources
that have helped teachers in a, in a profound way.
Cool plus is the extension of that.
I mean, you've got to be able to, uh, you know, take it to another level.
Tell us about what you're doing with that.
Well, cool plus has been in response to a couple of things.
So, um, when we first started, you know, we, our turnover in the first year for cool was,
uh, was 200 grand and, um, we relied largely on philanthropic support and, um, I was tipping
some money and certainly in the first few years and Bendigo bank jumped on and support
us for five years with a great John Billington there did a great job looking after the sale.
I think it was about one and a half million over five years.
And as we sort of moved on, we thought, how are we going to keep this?
As a, you know, to, to run a charity, um, not for profit, you need to have some serious
So what are we really good at?
We really great at creating content.
So what we started doing, um, sort of five years in 10 years ago, I was partnering with
industry experts to take their content that might be documentary filmmakers.
It might be Visi.
It might be the Australian human rights commission, AFLW, and telling great stories about what
these organizations are doing and how they're making a contribution to a, uh, a better way
of life for, uh, and a better society.
So that was, um, a fee for service job.
So that got up to 50, 50 of our revenue.
And last year we turned over a tick under 3 million and they both half each half philanthropy
half the fee for service business.
The only challenge with that is it's tied to projects.
So there's a lot of stuff that teachers want and we want to deliver, but we haven't got
the unallocated funds to do it.
So the last two years we've been trying to work out what it might be.
And, um, when we asked our teachers, since we started, what, why don't you come to the
website more often?
And the answer was, um, uh, you don't have everything I want fair enough.
And then in the middle.
Two years later, it drifted to, um, uh, remind me more often.
I love what you guys do.
And now it's, um, I've subscribed to one or two other things.
I think that, um, uh, if you can make me pay, I'm more likely to use it.
I've been told to exclude everything else by my school.
So I go, okay, I want to get this subscription caper.
How can we do that?
What's the greatest need for teachers?
So I show up at Cove, we did a whole heap of focus groups, several hundred teachers
and say, what is it that where's the system letting you down and how can we best help?
We can't do everything.
How can we help you?
So the big thing to come out of it was I need to be taught all the things that I don't get
taught at university and things like, you know, building self-confidence in the classroom,
um, strategies to support talented and gifted students, understanding impact of trauma and
learning all these different things, how to manage, um, challenging parents, finding your
voice in the staff room, what to wear to an interview, how to prepare your resume.
So no one was telling teachers any of those things.
Then they leave uni and gets thrown into the school.
Where's all my stuff.
You, you've got it.
So we've, uh, gone about addressing that with this premium content.
So we've created about 300 slide shows, which, um, uh, teach can present up the front of
the class, great talking points of, uh, engagement with their kids, um, all those, um, uh, skills.
We've got about 80 of those 45 minute, um, um, professional learning courses to help
upskill the teachers to be the best they can be and handle all those challenges that come
at them that they are not taught about at uni, which I find astounding.
Um, and not, and not much help in the classroom.
So we've launched that.
Um, we're launching that, I think today, tomorrow, and I think already 50 people have found it
and signed up to us.
So that's a, uh, uh, you know, 14, uh, 14 bucks a month for a monthly and 12 bucks if
you do it by the year.
So it's sort of $3 a week to get all your support, sort of unlimited professional development
We're adding new content every month and that's a subscription service.
So we're hoping that can be a third revenue stream for the charity and support it in perpetuity.
And, uh, we, we feel as though it's just what the, uh, the teachers need.
And it's, it's a bit sad that they do need it, but someone's got to provide it and we're
And that's the evolving world, isn't it?
You know, you having, you see it at the front, a lot of kids are turning up now with a lot
more anxiety issues, a lot more social issues than perhaps ever before.
And you know, we're asking teachers to not only educate, but to be counselors and social
workers before they even get to the classroom.
So I'm not surprised that they're the things that teachers need themselves, don't they?
That how you manage challenging parents and, you know, everyone turns up, uh, at some point,
some of the private schools with their family lawyer these days, Jason wants a certain outcome
So I think I grew up where it was.
Only one lawyer does.
If you're struggling, I went to boarding school and remember ringing home and it was like,
well, it's your fault.
You need to, uh, you need to sort it out and the world's changed, hasn't it?
And what we're doing now, I think is putting these pressure points on teachers like we've
never done before.
So what you're doing and we don't celebrate our teachers anywhere near enough.
You know, I often tell the story, I was in Switzerland with, uh, my brother-in-law and
At the time, who was one of the most intelligent people I'd ever met.
You could just tell she had a PhD in everything and could have chosen anything in the world.
And, and she chose to be a teacher and the family celebration for the fact they had a
teacher in the family was this, I was like, wow, that is the way educators are revered
in other parts of the world.
I think we've got a long way to go and I think you're doing a great job of, uh, of supporting
Jason talk about passion.
I've met a lot of people who love Australian rules football.
And then there's you.
So the, your passion for the Sydney Swans, I was, uh, listening to you, you did a great
speech in recent times, a love letter to football, which is a great, uh, occasion Ross Stevenson
has, uh, has brought to the table and I, and your speech was, I didn't realize that you
were seven generations of South Melbourne, Sydney Swans going back to the 1870s, the
Kimberley family.
Your dad, Craig was president at 34 years of age and went on to be an AFL commissioner.
Fair to say you're invested in the Swans, isn't it?
It is fair to say.
Um, and you know, certainly the early South Melbourne days was probably, you know, dad
was, uh, got voted in, um, actually, but the old board voted themselves and go back a step.
Um, Peter Bedford wanted to leave the club, go to Footscray and, um, uh, the club was
The captain wanted to go and dad sensed an opportunity.
He went and met Bedford and said, listen, if you stay, um, uh, we can make an announcement
that you're going to stay only if Craig Kimberley ticket gets elected to the board and Bedford
And he said, I'll be back in a minute.
He was a little frowny, not sure about that.
And dad just slipped a little, um, little envelope under the table to him.
And he said, I'll be back in a minute.
Not a little envelope I would have thought.
It was, it was, it was a largeish envelope.
And it was at the rainbow room at the Southern Cross and Bedford nipped off to the loo and
came back and had the frown and turned into a smile.
And, um, they shook hands and said, right, what do we do?
So dad briefed Alf Brown, who was the chief writer at the Herald at the time.
And the headline two days later was Bedford stays.
Kimberley president.
Board votes themselves out nine nil.
So that's how it started.
So I felt like I was Charlie and I had the golden ticket.
Dad was Willy Wonka.
He had the key to the chocolate factory.
And I spent six years of my life with dad at the footy club going every week in the
room to know before the game, after the game, um, great mates with Jim Gull on the door
who always used to look after me and give me the Forex mints, which was so strong.
I couldn't have them, but I never had to tell him.
So I'd quietly slip it into my pocket after a minute.
And, um, you know, my father, he was like, you know what?
My favourite player was Stewie Gull, Jim's son.
And one day Stewie gave me a pair of his socks.
I was just standing next to him in the rooms for five minutes after the game.
He could barely speak.
He took up his socks and gave them to me.
He goes, there you go, son.
And I saw him 20 years later in surface paradise.
The first thing he says to me, have you still got the socks?
I said, of course I've still got the socks for the stupid question.
It's the brilliance of sport, isn't it, Jase?
I've still got Stewie Gull socks from 1976.
You have to tell the story of you because, uh, Buddy Franklin kicks his thousandth goal.
It's one of the great moments in life.
It's one of the greatest moments in the last 25 years for me.
Great moment of footy.
And brilliant that, uh, we let it unfold naturally or we let it unfold, the AFL community did
and everyone charged onto the ground.
And then I remember doing the game and looking down, I'm going, that's not, is it?
That's not Jason Kimberley, who's taken the opportunity to bring a picnic blanket onto
the SCG and Dane Ramphy, who's a captain of the Swans and a mate of yours, you managed
to convince him to eat a pie mid-game on the SCG.
Mate, only you could do that.
What was the inspiration?
What was the inspiration for that one?
Well, the inspiration, I went to Pluggers 1300th when he passed, uh, Gordon Coventry's
1299 to break the all-time record and was up in Sydney for that and, um, ran out on the
ground and sort of got it a bit wrong.
There's a big crowd, couldn't get near it.
I thought, how am I going to get close to him?
So then on the, they took him off the ground and he came back out the race and I had a
video camera down there and got the high five of him coming back out.
And I thought, okay, how can we improve this next time if there's ever a big ground invasion
or something happens at the SCG?
And I thought a bloody picnic would be magnificent.
Just in front of the ladies' stand and I'd have to wait 23 short years until I got my
Buddy was, uh, lining up for hopefully his thousands.
I took my daughter, eldest daughter, Florence, her boyfriend, Ryan.
We flew up to Sydney.
Everything went wrong on the flight.
It was delightful.
We got to the ground at quarter time.
We flew in the gates listing on the radio and, um, uh, we, we got in there and all I
had in my little overnight bag was no toothbrush, no toothpaste, no fresh undies or socks.
All I had was a picnic blanket.
One thing I wasn't going to forget.
So he kicked the goal and he goes, oh, let's run out.
I said, no, no, we just got, we'll just watch it.
Just watch this happen.
The whole joint's going to, um, fill out onto the, onto the ground.
And sure enough, it did.
We watched the, uh, the crush for about five minutes.
And then I said, right, we're on.
So I grabbed them.
They said, what do you mean we're on?
I said, we're going to have a picnic.
And everyone's looked at me.
And I said, yeah, picnic.
So blanket over the shoulder, my sister grabbed a bottle of champagne from a nearby fridge.
I grabbed a box of pies.
We filled our pockets with beers and we went out in the ground and, and said, I went to
a picnic out there for about half an hour.
And of course we got invaded by the, the selfie set.
They're all jumping all over us, photos.
So it was all a bit of pandemonium.
And then I sort of stood up for a bit of a stretch and was just a sea of people.
And Dane Rampey came out of the crowd and just was walking away.
So I go, g'day Ramps.
He goes, Jase, what the hell's going on?
I said, um, beer, champagne, or pie.
He said, horse will kill me if I have a grog.
He'll smell it in my breath.
He can probably smell me now with you here.
Those cockroaches, they're all the same.
And, um, he, uh, I said, what about a pie?
He said, I love a pie.
So there's some great photos of me and Rampey having a pie on the picnic blanket, um, uh,
with all the crowd going around us.
It was just, uh, we look around the stands, I said, have a look at this, Ramps.
And the stands had emptied.
And we're just looking around the way and said, this is an incredible moment.
It's one of footy's greatest moments.
I think the swans breaking through, the bulldogs breaking through, although it was against
the swans, uh, and that creative invasion, I can't think of three better moments in footy.
I think it's in the top three in the last, since I've been watching footy.
And, uh, Jase, there was an image of you.
That I would have in my mind for the rest of my life.
It would be that you were the picnic blanket in the middle of the SCG mid, mid game.
And I think it's, it's such a fascinating life that you live to me.
It's got a decent share of mischief about it.
Uh, Jase, like no one else is going to think of doing that incredible contribution that
you've made with cool dog org, uh, an incredible, uh, community that you've built around you,
but not to go again the other way, but I, I didn't quite understand until preparing
Cause you, you bump into you.
I think you had a decent serious, you know, share of tragedy along the way as well.
And I, I did want to ask you about, I didn't understand until reading in preparation for
this, that, you know, one of your best friends in life, tragically took his life in 1991,
uh, Michael Fox and his son, he's 23 years of age.
I mean, that must have been an incredibly hard moment.
How did you cope with that?
Well, yeah, Tert and Hipskeny were great mates.
And, um, uh, I think, you know, as, as, um, uh, you know, as, I was just a kid, I was
uh you know lindsey says you know he died of a broken heart you know he had a bust up with his
missus and um it was sort of you know all um it obviously had a bad moment it was all you know
too much for him and he he took his own life and um it was uh it was such a real you know shock
you know i don't think you expect in your early 20s although he said that i sat down with a mate
of the day and we counted about 35 people we knew were suicided over the journey so
um i think it it was just such a shock and i remember going around to um you know the house
was just because mum mum's great mates with um with paul and dad's great we're great family
friends and we'd sat around on their on their lawn and talking to them and sharing memories of michael
and it was just you know so um sort of i think overwhelming and sad and tragic and certainly
during covid and well i i go to st kilda cemetery you know at least once a month it's a beautiful
place particularly in the late afternoon the sun going down have a wander around and that's where
oliphine i take a couple of cans and have a beer with him or i sometimes meet a couple of mates
and we'll have a a beer and a yarn with him there and um i don't think it's a i don't know it feels
like a nice thing to do and i think you know funerals are for the living and graveyards
although the dead are in there they're also for the living to have a place to
uh consider and reflect and i suppose just appreciate how bloody lucky you are you know
that uh uh that you know it wasn't you and um but not that it should be someone else but i think
you know i think it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a
you know we all deal with things in different ways you just don't know what's going through
someone's mind at a particular time if they're having a bad moment and you know could anyone
have been there or done anything you know probably not and uh you know i've also you know different
mates have different challenges at different times i think it's just important to you know
be there and be their friend and um if it uh helps uh if it helps sort of you in your grieving
process well that's you know great as well but you know i didn't go to marcus's grave for probably
about 20 years and i've just started going in the last you know i've just started going in the last
you know 10 years and there's no real sort of rhyme or reason to it i think it just sort of
feels right or it doesn't um i think that's probably something i'm going to say deeply
personal but if it was deeply personal about it to you about it but it's sort of something that's
inside of you that is sometimes difficult to explain i think that you you carry with you and
you do sort of move on through life but i think it's also important to take the moment to pause
and reflect on help and all those people have made you the person you are because i really
understand that you are who you are because of where
you were when and of course there's nature and nurture but all the things that impact on your
life every knockback every joyous moment every you know um thing you've ever done has an impact
on you and it forms you in some way and you know that was one of those things yeah we lost a great
friend in year in year 10 uh who took his own life and he was the guy that everyone loved everyone
wanted to be um and our other great mate had spent the weekend with him before and uh um and it was
the impact on him
him having spent that weekend i think was just such a significant life-changing moment as well
uh jace that we all probably live with but i think more so for him and i you know gus wallen's been
on this podcast a great friend of mine he's founded gotcha for life and you know he still
talks about it's number one killer for males in this country people taking their own life and i
you know as you said you you know he counted 35 people that you know it's what's the leadership
required to change that conversation you know talk about australia being the lucky country
i still fight i can't get my head around that still i can't for all the things in life that
that is still what it is i it's a deep question mate but i i don't know where to go with it
yeah well when mr horn horn sorry coined the phrase a lucky country the next line after that
was run by mediocre um people so yes lucky but not fulfilling its potential i think and i think
in my view i think australia getting a bit sort of broader here but i think australia is sort of
relied on a lot of things that are a bit easier whether it's some
you know mining dig a hole shove it in the barrel wheel it away sell it you know it's not a genius
sort of uh operation i just don't think we're as creative as we could be and as a innovative as we
could be there's so many great minds that leave australia it's you know when you when you travel
overseas if the world was australia australia'd be wogger you know a couple of good sportsmen
have come from there but no one really knows about it no one gives a shit about australia until
there's a a big fire or some drama goes on but when you're overseas australia doesn't exist
and we're quite myopic i think and uh
if you have got it so good because we um got it so good i think that lulls us into a false sense
security and we you know we carry on and whinge about the tiniest things that you know um others
other countries don't even discuss because it's not important you know i think we've often we've
got it so good we don't stop to appreciate how good it is how much better we could be if we um
worked worked you know worked as a team to us and i think you know there's too much time spent
wondering who's going to get the credit for stuff rather than just doing stuff you get so much more
we don't care who gets the credit you know just do it and tell someone else it was their idea
they'll puff their chest up and go and make it happen i love that idea you had last week
like oh god i thought that might have been your yep right off i go you know so i think it's about
you know giving people the um the confidence to go out and you know and be their best and um
i just think yeah just generally in australia we just take it a bit for granted and we we really
wouldn't know it's a fair perspective uh jose when you think about it is as the the problems here
when you consider world problems just aren't significant and you know it's a it's a it's a
perhaps then you know we create them in our mind don't we and we build them into things that they
don't need to be someone said to me jason i like uh referencing it success leaves clues and and
your life has been full as i said of uh incredible stories and we see these dimensions of different
leadership that we're fascinated about in our space at a leader and connecting great leadership
stories and yours is as i said incredibly interesting to me but we think it's hard to
lead other people jace without a sense of self-leadership yours is unique mate you're
authentically yourself what it
what does that mean to you well i don't know anything else you know i i don't have um gears
i once heard mick malloy commented on his acting and said it's five percent either way of mick
malloy you know so i think whatever i do is five percent either way of jason kimberley you know i
i think um i i don't have um uh you know different gears necessarily and i think um you know i i
think a few mates a few mates of mine have got fairly high profile public lives and i mean they
said to me early on when they were sort of diving into it you know you've got a lot of
things i said just be yourself i said the sooner you can be yourself in your job you don't be what
anyone what you think anyone wants you to be be yourself and the sooner you can be yourself in
life some people die without being themselves they're always trying to please other people
or whatever it is but i think i worked it out in the early 20s that the quicker you can be yourself
and i mean legitimately yourself not holding back not putting on something false that's not you
and i sometimes you get into trouble it can be a bit tricky let's be clear but if you're not your
who the hell are you you know you're poncing around trying to impress people that you don't
like uh you know to care about you um you know so i i just think my my advice on leadership is
absolutely be you um and whatever that is and it's difficult to to be yourself i have lots of
tests people oh but i couldn't say that i couldn't do that like i'm like it's just a pg show um yeah
so i think that that to me is um um critical in leadership and the sooner you can do that it's um
i'd say that is um not caring what other people think i know that's a trite thing to say but
it's none of my business what people think of me you know i get the odd secondhand story and
they're usually wildly inaccurate my my reputation exceeds me does but if you can legitimately not
care about what other people think coupled with being yourself i think that to me is the secret
to success yeah beautifully said mate and and authentically you is uh is what you are in every
situation that i've ever seen you in and yeah you've had an amazing impact as i said
on thousands with what you've created with cool but how do you think about we see the ladies are
really conscious now jace on a daily basis they really care about how they impact people positively
on a daily basis how have you thought about that i think the thing is i probably don't maybe i should
more i sort of i'm this sort of i tend to visualize things i see myself just drifting down the river
of life and whatever i come across i come across i speak to someone that i go i said well they say
oh no i've got my plan for now then i've got this plan i go jesus mate yeah you know i think you're
what if your plan doesn't work out will you be disappointed so i tend to have sort of zero
expectations so nothing goes bad so if you're going to something go oh how was it or you know
people go to a movie and watch it oh i've heard it since it's too long i don't want to hear it i
just need to go in cold i i really try and remove any expectations from anything i do
um there'll always be something there you don't want to be a total disaster
um but i just think if if you have expectations it just leads to disappointment so i could get
them out scratch them and whatever happens is going to be good yeah and again mate that's you
being authentic to you steve hooker on this podcast the olympic pole molding gold medalist just he
could picture himself going over six meters to the most minute detail many many years before so when
it came to that moment he'd seen it a hundred and you know thousands of times in his head and his
life plays out that way and the work that he's doing now but that's him being him isn't it and
i think as you said coming back if you're trying to be a version of yourself that's
you you're in real trouble uh i think you've articulated that beautifully creating and
sharing your vision i mean you say you're drifting down the river of life and you're
taking what comes but you clearly don't create something to the level that you have and you've
done that in you know dozens of areas without having a vision and been able to create and
share it so how do you do that with your version yeah i suppose i got a nod off a bit when on the
strategy day when they have what's the vision was i go for christ's sake we all know what we're
doing that's you know and you sort of spend six hours there and you know whatever
your coffee's and wake up every day and make a contribution but um i i what's the second i think
it just does tie back to that sort of positivity and that i think it's also the communication piece
and being really clear to people what you want and you know don't don't tell me show me you know
show me what you're wearing up to what have you done and i think if you can get yourself into
trouble in a leadership role if you um don't have a tight enough control on what's going on i'm not
saying could but where where i find i've come down or knocked on the ground and i've come down
so well is i've put too much trust in others or i haven't briefed them and trained them well enough
so then i look at that and that comes back to me so i look anyone in my organizations um who have
had a fail i look at that and say okay that's that's on me what what didn't i or those uh around
me what didn't we give that person did we give them the best chance to succeed or did we sort
of go off them a bit after six months and they sort of fizzled out on the on the vine and we
didn't give them a go so um i think being a
of that and and being responsible i think you know responsibility i mean everyone shirks
responsibility these days look at our politicians our business leaders wasn't me it was him it was
like that when i found it you know uh you know and i just that just really bothers me and irks
me i think the world will be a better place i mean look what's going on in america take
responsibility for your actions you know the things we're taught as a kid you know don't lie
don't steal be responsible be on all these things as soon as you become an adult that's all out the
window and that's you know don't cheat at your tests
and in the business world that's called um you know good corporate uh uh investigation or
something so i don't know i think there's there's sort of a a big change in what we're taught as
kids and what we do as adults and i think that gap is too big and i think you know younger
generations are looking at at adults and um and say i just don't don't believe you you're feeding
me the bollocks here i've got to you know either work it out for myself or what you're telling me
is demonstrably untrue and how can i you know be passionate about following all your leadership
yeah i love your point
unaccountability is and it feels like a lost art doesn't it and this sort of what even is
truth now and people are literally stand there and and and gaslight someone in front of them and
and you know you're not even sitting here jason you know apparently that's where the world's got
stop hitting me luke yeah that's right the old you know there's such a brilliant thing is that
when someone puts their hand up and says you know what i completely balls that up that was a hundred
percent mate there's nowhere else to go and you know i know you uh you're the great shane warren
and i always feel such a privilege to be a part of that and i think that's a great thing to do
to have uh been in his company a number of times but that was his superpower for me warning just
yet that was my mistake completely own it and everyone he loved him even more because you know
he was superhuman but then he showed you how human he could be from time to time your curiosity comes
up with you a lot uh jason you mentioned that around this curious brain and through that we see
those really approach their learning development through curiosity does that ring true for you
it does and i i think to also you've got to be able to develop and that's come naturally to me
and i know it doesn't come naturally to everyone you know you've got to be able to develop it and
talk to them i go you know why would i be interested in that so it's sort of there it's
not but how you how you can engender a love of learning how can you get kids who don't necessarily
have that curiosity how can you you know spark that uh that fire in them and and i think it
comes back to that engaging element having the real world in the uh in the lessons having something
that's uh a bit of a special source so we want a template for our lessons and there's certain
things that need to be achieved in each one and one what's the special source what's the wow factor
when someone goes shit i don't know what to do with that and i think that's a really good thing
i had no idea wow you know literally wow when does the kid say wow in the lesson so that to me
says the kids engaged they want to learn and they want to go on and the same thing you know for the
educator you know now my kids uh look at me and going wow we had a letter from a teacher up in
ipswich a bloke year nine math student is disengaged no interest whatsoever and he took
them outside and we've got some for this purpose some outdoor math lessons all about areas
measurements etc etc and he's uh taking the boys back in the class and he said
oh sir that was the best lesson you've ever taught us he said just as i was puffing my chest out with
pride they said it wasn't one of yours was it and he said no it wasn't actually it was uh one from
cool they said more of those that was that was the best math lesson we've ever done so you know
when you get feedback like that from there's there's now a group or a year ago of you know
20 boys in ipswich who couldn't give a shit about maths who are now into it because of a lesson that
got into the hands of this teacher and he took them outside for 45 minutes and he said they've
never been more focused and they've never been more focused and they've never been more focused
and they loved it and uh you know it's uh those sort of stories that happen and we also had a
child care center early learning center out in the west of sydney that was a a bit rough and there's
a lot of issues at home and people are not getting fed and sort of coming to school fairly sort of
disheveled and lots of yelling and screaming in the car park and the um early learning center
leader had been doing some of our mindfulness um just you know two or three minutes not
do that with the kids and then the kids took it home to the parents and this lady wrote us this
beautiful letter about how the whole
school a whole early learning center the whole vibe had changed there was no more yelling
no more shouting the kids had taken it home the parents had absorbed it and everyone's having a
bit of quiet time not no just a couple of minutes to have a little think just gather our thoughts
and uh she said thank you you've changed the whole dynamic of my center so it's just you know all
those little things just you know add up and add up and you've got all these great stories and uh
i think it's important to storytell and have a great narrative in the lessons and the work we do
and how brilliant to have teachers curious to actually go and find your
resource and want to implement it and then share those stories is is profound so it's what aren't
amazing as i said the contribution that you made on that front communicating with clarity
uh something we see everyone who really gets this right consistently have a real sense of how they
communicate jace how have you gone about that um i think you know just to touch back on i think it's
important to really set expectations clearly and follow up follow up is critical an expectation
on someone else's this is your own expectation
but now you're going to do this um but the follow-up if there's no follow-up or the show
me don't tell me show me i think that that's just good for everyone to know that you know i think
it's human nature if you're not being if you think no one's watching well you can drift off
we all do right but if you know someone's uh you're gonna something has to be done by four
o'clock wednesday well guess what you're gonna do it but if it's i'll get it to me when you can
it's a different conversation so so um there's that and also i think those sort of it's like
a guardrail you know when you go to the bowling alley and you know the kids and they
pop it up so you can't go in the gutter you've got to sort of install guardrails on something
sometimes so we just don't make a daft error you know and why do we make that because we
weren't experienced and we didn't know so you know have some sort of guardrails going there
and i think something you know that uh i think it was harry truman that first uh said this or
where i got it from is never kick a fresh turd on a hot day let things settle down das let it
settle down there's no point when things are when there's high anxiety and the red mists in the air
just let it settle give it 24 hours and uh and come back and address it then um so i think that's
something that's never never kick a fresh turd on a hot day there's a life lesson i'm writing that
one down i think i pinched it from harry truman well done harry might have been a derivative of
something he said but uh it's very true though isn't it when you're fired up and you're gonna
fire up an email pick up a call that you're gonna probably regret i've done a few of those done a
few of those recently don't do it when you're angry and don't do it after a couple of years
hey jace how important's collaboration been for you you know it's mission critical collaboration
particularly when you're a small organization with uh no cloud and um what's his name uh see
the the art of war um you know when you're small look big and when you're big look small so we've
been small trying to look big for for a long time and um now we're a little bit bigger we sometimes
try and look a bit smaller or you know but there's still huge competitors out there that we're working
against so i think it's really uh appreciating where you know you are and you know you're
and then i think with your business but also i think you need to project something a little bit
different because only you know what's going on behind the scenes and how horrible it can be at
times and uh you know we've been six weeks away from going bust a couple of times over the last
15 years and that really you know brings a bit of reality and pressure to the situation so i think
it's important to have something at work that is really clear you know to the start because all the
all the all your team don't want to know about you know the financial ins and outs you know
they'd be you know
everyone would freeze and there'd be sort of you know panic at the at the place it's sort of been
my experience so i think it's part of that is being showing that leadership of you know everything's
okay even when it's not and um and sticking to that and being really strong on on that message
so i think it's uh i'd say a brave front but i think you need to be a show some strength of
character when things are going orderly because when it's good you know it's good and it's great
and you know the the biggest challenge when it's going good is you know you can um
get a bit lazy and and think it's all your genius but the reality is there's a lot of luck involved
a lot of timing involved and like they say in the footy it's never as bad or as good as it seems and
i think it's important to uh to remember that and um the uh yeah and i think this the clarity of
direction is is also important to us if you're if you're not clear about what you're doing um
i think you just go around in circles so as much as i'm not a fan of sitting down for a day and
working out the vision the strategy every two years or what's changed um i think it's important to
do appreciate that it has got its role and is important but uh um i think yeah being being
staying true to yourself and sticking to your guns is critical no doubt you're staying true to
yourself is uh is something that you've got from uh from the youngest possible age uh who's been
the greatest leader in your life um well gosh it'd be hard to go past dad um i think you know for
that you know real close um uh face to face and just you know seeing him get through all the stuff
he's done you know everything from uh you know when he was 35
just gene stores in uh victoria that no one had really sort of heard of that much um in the 1977
grand final the first time it was broadcast live he somehow wangled just genes on as the co-sponsor
with cub of the grand final a retailer with 35 stores only victoria and i reckon he reckons he
got over 1500 letters from people all around the the country because i went to wa and south australia
and maybe i'm sure if we went to new south wales and queensland anyway people in hospital said i'd
never thought i'd see a grand final thank you so much
and i threw it in the ensuing months sales went through the roof um they expanded in new south
wales and the business took off like a rocket so just pulling that lever and you know just grabbing
that and making that happen i think that was one of his greatest moves he he ever uh ever did so um
yeah so that was that was awesome i uh i really used to uh enjoy bob hawk um you know a bit of a
consensus uh um a man and uh wanting to you know get all the people sort of buy into what he was
admired that in uh in him he had some uh he was connected to to the family bob when he would have
bob he was the number one ticket holder at the swans and uh he was um had a bit of a penchant
for uh for the for the ladies and i i do recall mum mum having to drive him home several times
from swans functions um back to his house down in by morris um uh yeah so bob did enjoy a a party
and a cold beer on a warm day bob was partial to uh along the journey um if you could collaborate
with anyone on on anything and i'm you know i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm
i'm a bit anxious but i'm i'm i'm definitely excited to beOW becoming an N Nacional
far from spam hoarse hip-hop r
We were, you know, an absolute pimple on an ass back then.
And she didn't know this, so we'd meet twice a year
and have a beer or wine after work.
And then a couple of years, oh, I think she'd been on for two years now.
And then four years ago, I said, I think it'd be a great move for you
to come on as chair as a call.
Oh, I'm too busy with that.
And so she went off and came away.
She said, call me in November, 1st of November, Jan.
I think it'd be really great for you to come on as our chair.
And she said, you're going to wear me down, aren't you?
I said, I haven't even started yet.
So she came on, and she's great, and she's got a fantastic background.
She's originally from Queensland, and she's,
or her family's always been amazing sort of on the social scene
and helping others.
She ran the foundation for Australians and all about helping kids
engage in their learning, you know, the $20 BOSS program,
the Worlds of Work program, which we also supported through CORE.
So she's an absolute jet.
So she's our chair.
And the other one is Thea Stenier,
who I met at a science teacher's conference.
I was wearing these strides, and I had.
Chase is just, well, could only be described as maybe Happy Gilmore's pants,
or Chase has got a unique style of dress.
We'll capture that.
You know, you actually, if you walked in the studio,
you bought them from an op shop, but you had to get them tailored to fit you.
Tailored to fit, exactly.
They're sort of the, how would you describe them, Chase?
They're like a golfer's pants.
Oh, you call, you know, pajama pants, golfer's pants, all that.
Where's your golf sticks?
That's all right.
And just bring your light and color to your world, you boys.
That's not you, Darcy.
That's anyone who inquires.
So I met at the science teacher's conference, and I had the book, you know,
Antarctica, A Different Adventure, with my mate, Jase Veal,
sort of nude on the front cover, thankfully pointing the other way.
I always thought that was you nude on the cover, Jase.
No, I'm a little shorter through the thighs.
You need to pick that up.
And Thea came over and said, this looks like a bit of a different cat.
I wonder what he's up to.
So she came over and said, oh, you come and talk to my school.
I went one afternoon.
She tells the story.
Friday afternoon, she gave me the death slot.
I had two, a group of science kids.
And she said, oh, you just brought them to life.
She said, at that moment, I knew I wanted to come and work for you.
And I thought, at that moment, I knew I wanted you to come and work.
So I rang her up after a couple more talks at school and said,
why don't you, instead of teaching at Brentwood,
why don't you come to Corland and teach the country?
She said, jeez, you had me at that.
And so she came along.
So we've been working together for over a decade.
And I've known Jan for over 12 years.
So I am so happy with the gun team that we've got.
I couldn't imagine anyone else that I want to work with.
There might be, you know, someone who might sound good in that,
but I haven't got the 10 years history with them.
So it would be a risk.
So I would say, Darce, I'm happy with the crew I've got.
And I'm wrapped with who's there.
And they've both been a long haul to get in.
And they've both been amazing.
What a great position to be in, isn't it,
to have the people around you that you want to take it forward.
And as you said, it's the never-ending story, isn't it,
to try and impact teachers around the globe.
It's a great mission.
And you've stopped and paused, as you should do today,
to celebrate, as I said.
It's an amazing achievement from nothing,
from a trip to Antarctica to do what you've done, Jase.
It's an incredible effort.
Congratulations again.
I love, mate, catching up with you.
And the message that rings true is be uniquely yourself, mate.
No one's ever going to accuse you of anything apart from that.
And it's a really inspiring story, mate.
Thanks for sharing it today.
I've just got something for you I wanted to ask,
I meant to ask earlier.
You're into wellness.
Can you be too well?
It seems like a lot of hard work, Darce, is wellness.
Can you be too well?
Do you know what's funny, isn't it?
My great mate, Bob Murphy, from the Western Bulldogs,
who you will love, and I know you do,
because he's got some similarities to you,
one of the most articulate.
The worst thing I've ever done in my life was belt Robert Murphy
in a practice game at training.
And as I often say to people,
I had known that he was going to go on and be one of the all-time greats.
I might have thought twice about it.
There's a back story to that.
The coach asked me to start a fight.
But anyway, I'm not going to make an excuse for myself.
It was a very poor thing to do,
to knock Robert Murphy out like one of our all-time greats.
And he sees me now and he says,
mate, from the guy who punched me in a practice game,
I think you've overmeditated.
I think you've turned the needle too far the other way.
It can be too well.
We need you back in the middle somewhere.
So I think you're right, Jase.
As the 80, 20-year-old, you still want to, for me,
have as much fun.
And plenty of mischief with you is always something I'm up for.
But there's a balance somewhere in the middle there.
Of course there is.
Good to see you, Jase.
Thanks for having me, Daz.
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