incredible reputation from Warrnambool. And I see the town of Warragal.
Let me take that back.
The town of Warragal has just.
Did I just say Warrnambool?
They've just, people have either run off the road or they've just thrown a glass against the wall.
Well, I'm Cameron from, of course I know you're the great man from, from Warragal. It's a long way from that day, mate, isn't it?
Mate. Um, yeah, the, the, the cliche of, oh, it goes in, you know, in a blink and, but then in other ways, it's like,
yeah, it's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of a,
That does just feel like such a long, long time ago.
And everything you said was totally, totally true.
I think the more interesting part was that I thought you were weird for having a bag
and having your bag packed and your towel folded.
One thing I do remember from that time, which I think this probably paints as much of a picture as anything,
I do remember not having hair under my arms and getting to the club, an AFL club.
I'm 17 and I would do chin-ups the other way from the rest of you lot
because I was so self-conscious of like, I'm a boy, you know.
Which is amazing when you think about it.
And I'm not joking when you were down the driveway.
I honestly thought there's no way that could be, like I was a boy too at 17,
but not to the level that you were.
But then you got in the car and you had a presence about you.
Straight away.
And for those that don't know, you start asking questions and soon enough you find out
you're the third born Monica and John Murphy, beautiful people, two of the most extraordinary people.
Your dad was a Catholic priest, mum was a nun.
It's one of the great stories of all time.
They fall in love, they decide to start a family.
And I look at you now and I said in the opener, one of the most values-driven people I know.
I see that knowingly.
Knowing your family.
Do you?
No doubt.
Yeah.
And I think it's one of those things, it's probably the older you get,
and I certainly think for most people when you become a parent,
you certainly see your parents in a different light and the influence they had on you.
And sometimes there's moments of like, you either say things or act in a certain way and go,
well, that was dad.
That was my dad.
Well, that was my dad.
That was my dad.
That was my mum.
But yeah, mum and dad, in a very sort of typical sense, we're in a pretty conservative country town.
And mum being a nun in a former life and dad being a Catholic priest and then them meeting
and falling in love and having children, as a teenager, I was embarrassed about it.
I didn't tell anyone about that.
Really?
Well, when you're that age, you want to fit in, you don't want to be different.
And in the town that I grew up in,
being different was not really what I wanted.
And then you get a little bit older and you sort of go the other way completely.
And I went the other way at pace.
I hit a certain time in my life and going, I don't want to be like anyone else.
And I think a part of that confidence is mum and dad's love story.
And I think that's probably, no, it is.
It's not probably.
It is the cornerstone of our family.
I think it's the thing that we have most pride in of, it's a pure love story.
And whilst it sounds from a distance, because it's 40 years ago now, whatever,
and oh, dad was a priest and mum was a nun and then they met and fell in love.
But it was controversial.
Like it really was a, that was a controversial time.
And there's family members who were refusing to go to the wedding because it was wrong,
you know,
perceived as wrong.
They get married.
And as, you know, there's a bit of history in, in, uh, in religion of, you know, you
go through a crisis, head to the desert.
And so mum and dad moved to Alice Springs.
And I only find this, find this out as an adult, but they move there just to get out
of the scandal, almost go away.
Let's start a family away from all of that negative energy, I suppose, to some degree.
But, um, it's something.
But yeah, whilst I was embarrassed about it when I was 12, now I'm like, it's probably
a very core thing in my heart of immense pride.
And when you think back, you know, moving to Alice Springs, you literally moved to another
planet, you know, no internet, no phones.
So you literally could start a new life.
And that's what people did.
And you went up to the Northern Territory.
It was not an uncommon thing, you know, knowing your mum and dad over the years and they are,
you know, two of the most beautiful people you'll ever meet.
And, and I can see, you know, that imprint on you, but yeah, I didn't really see in that
perspective around the shame and the controversy part of it that, um, did their family come
to terms with it in the end?
Like, well, we're Irish Catholic and look, we're not a very pious family.
I do want to get that point across because often people get, you know, you'd sell people,
oh yeah, dad was a priest, mum was a nun, and they sort of, oh, you're not going to
start quoting scripture to me, are you?
You're capable of doing that.
Well.
If required.
Well, on call, I'd be certainly what would be softly a lapsed Catholic.
Let's just leave it at that.
But, um, yeah, but I, I, mum and dad are not pious and they're, they're quite progressive
and, um, and left-leaning and very much community-based and all that sort of thing.
But the family is so big as an Irish, both Irish Catholic families.
There's, I mean, there's heaps of us.
There was a family reunion we had.
It was like, you lift up a table, it was like scattering of mice of like kids with freckles
and crooked teeth.
That's kind of what it looked like.
The thousands, it looked like a festival.
You know, you're taking me back.
There's so many places to go, but the pleasure of touring Ireland with you, uh, would have
been 2001 or was it 2001?
One or two, yeah.
And I can remember walking onto the bus and, you know, walking around.
It was funny enough to represent Australia with you, but all the little Irish kids, Jesus
Murphy, what the hell are you doing?
You're a bastard.
The worst Irish accent you've ever heard in your life there.
But I thought I was Irish being Darcy, but they were like, you're playing for the wrong
team, Murphy.
Well, I, yeah, I mean, we're Murphys and, and look, there was some Irishness in our
family, but I'm at a low level.
Like we watch, we had a VHS of The Commitments.
We watched Belly Kiss Angel on a Sunday night.
And we had a Furies CD, but there wasn't like, we weren't, you know, like drinking green
beer on St. Patrick's day.
And it wasn't that sort of thing, but going to that, that, that international Irish trip.
I mean, you, you were an established star of the game and it was the who's who.
And my life had gone from being a school kid to then stepping into the AFL world, which
for me was like a fantasy camp.
Like it was surreal.
It was totally like, oh, I can't quite comprehend that.
Like almost walking up to Chris Grant and like, you know, poking his arm with my finger
of like, is that actually real?
Or is that, and then 18 months later, oh, you've been called up to play for Australia
over in Ireland, flying business class.
And you'll be sitting next to Craig Bradley.
And I'm like, it was, it was all sort of, it sort of seemed normal at the time, but
it's not normal.
Your life goes from zero to a hundred miles per hour in a very, very short period of time.
And I hadn't ever really thought about my Irishness, but the bus pulled up, we were
playing Dublin city in the back streets of Dublin, like a pretty rough part of Dublin,
just as a bit of a warm up.
And I remember the bus stopped and all of a sudden there was this whack, whack, whack.
And we turned around and this group of Irish kids were throwing rocks at the windows of
the bus.
And I looked at them and they were aged from.
Six to 12 and every one of them could have been me.
I was just like, oh, wow.
It's like, geez, that, uh, I probably am pretty Irish.
And then of course I get on the field and I don't know if you, I, I don't know if you're
allowed to swear, you can beep it out, but the, my opponent next to me stood.
And as the ball was a long way away, he looked at the back of my shirt and it said, Murphy,
he said, Murphy, you should be playing for us.
You can't.
Which.
Uh, doesn't surprise me at all and, and makes me laugh and you undersell yourself because
you're right.
You're a young, uh, emerging star of the game and you, you, you, you win your spot in that
team on merit because people could see the brilliance in you.
You're perfect for the Gaelic game and perfect for Australian rules as well.
But, but I still remember, you know, the Ruckman word is sort of like, you might've had a good
year, but what the hell are we going to do with you in Gaelic football?
And, and this is you, you might've been, you know, looking at Craig Bradley and everyone
else.
But I remember.
About 12 of us had a go in Gaelic and you're laughing cause you know, no one wants to be
the goalkeeper.
And I reckon I had one minute and may have, may have sort of ducked to get out the way
of the ball.
And all I can hear is.
It wasn't, you just had a moment.
It wasn't, you were a very, very brave player and one of the bravest I ever played with,
but you had a moment that was not your bravest.
And when you have those moments, no one is more aware of it than Robert Murphy.
And I could hear you chuckle.
I can remember hearing you chuckle and then there was a, there was just a look.
They didn't need to even say anything.
That's been the banter over the course of many, many years.
And, and in preparation for this, cause I have done some preparation.
I was thinking, I feel like you can get decades of your life, Bob, condensed to a couple of
sound bites.
And I, I'm 48 now.
And you sort of.
You moisturise though.
You look, you look about 32.
I'm feeling like I've been having a good run.
You look good.
I look about 68.
68.
And the sound bites come back over time.
So you can have 30 years in the industry.
Those little moments.
And those sound bites, a couple of them, you are intimately involved in and we need to
address them.
One of them is this story that, and it's quite timely because the Brownlow medal was last
night here in Melbourne, that I hosted a party for myself because I thought I was going to
win the Brownlow and you were there at said party.
And the second one hasn't aged well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
King hitting you in an intra club practice match.
And I was telling this story to my daughter last night and say, I'm catching up with Bob
Murphy tomorrow.
And what are you going to talk about?
She said, like, like everyone else, you hit Bob Murphy, like one of the most loved figures
in the history of the game.
What were you thinking?
Can we put him to bed?
Can I, can I actually move on from them on the back of this conversation?
I actually think this story has done the rounds enough of poor Bob.
Yeah.
And what a thug Luke Darcy is.
One hundred percent.
And I deserve it.
And I'm, but I like at times to be a contrarian.
Even in the moment, I was like, I kind of got what I deserved.
I'm being brutally honest.
I, I think there was a little part of me that wanted it.
I pushed you and I pushed you and I knew that there was a nickname around for you of Bambi
because you would fall over.
And I knew enough about.
Given to me by Tony Liberatore, which you knew you always got a nerve.
And I just knew enough just about the tightening of the jaw when you'd get called Bambi and
go, Ooh, I've got a little weak spot here.
A little, it's just a little sensitive spot.
And so we play this practice match and I start up on you about Bambi.
Oh, Bambi, Bambi, you pulled out.
Oh, you.
In an intra-club practice game.
Intra-club practice match.
But the part that I, that people won't know, and no one wants to hear this part because,
because the, the, the wild part about this is Rodney E before the start of that game.
Yep.
Pulling me aside.
I'm captain.
Crucial part of the story, this.
That's been overlooked.
Rocket hasn't taken his part of the.
This is a, there's a, there's a triangle to this story and Rodney gets left out, but go on.
I remember this clearly.
Hey mate, everything's going well.
Really happy with pre-season, but I want you to start a fight in the intra-club practice game.
And I went to him, what are you talking about, mate?
This is our senior coach.
He said, mate, I get the feeling everyone's too nice.
I reckon you start a fight.
I want to see how everyone reacts.
So I sort of run out on the ground and going.
You're sizing up the menu of who you're like, well, garlic needs one.
It was a long week.
Harrison could probably do with a clip.
And then suddenly this sort of voice in my ear, hey Bambi, did you pull out of the last contest?
It was just sort of this like epiphany.
It's like, okay, the world's saying start a fight.
Now I had no intention.
I had no intention of, of what happened was, you know, I'll give you a little round arm around there.
I'll throw you to the ground and you were like, you know, like what it, you know, and then I've done my bit and we'll see what happens, but I'll never forget as I swung my arm around your peripheral vision and the noise it made, it just was like, I was like, oh my God, this is so, so bad.
And I can remember the looks on the faces of the couple of people who saw it.
They were like, you could.
Six foot six giant at the peak of his football powers and this prepubescent kid lying motionless on the ground.
But you should have got 12 weeks suspension.
That was how bad it was and how bad it looked.
But the interesting, but once it happened and Will Minson or someone, I thought I've got to keep going.
Well, in for a penny, in for a pound.
I started Bob, I've got, and I'll knock you out too, you big dumb fucking German.
I think was what I said.
So that just sort of doubled.
I sat down on this crazy act and I remember going off and my heart's sinking going, this is an awful, awful thing.
I knew straight away and Rockets distance himself.
Like he's looked at me and gone, I had nothing to do with that.
There's no email trail here.
And mate, your response was brilliant.
I thought what you, because you had no idea.
I think you genuinely, did you know it was me?
I did.
Yeah.
Straight away.
Yeah.
I, so the other, my version of all my, so my perspective of it was.
I was eager to get under your skin just because that was what I loved about being a young player.
And I've, so I'm the youngest in my family obsessed with football and I wanted to be one of the boys.
So getting the, the banter and the getting under your skin and I loved all that and I wanted, and above all else, but above all else, I wanted, I wanted to be a part of stories in footy.
Like I love the stories of footy.
And I do.
I think that is a, that's a little bit of the kernel of it.
So me just needling you, needling you, needling you.
I mean, I didn't think you were going to knock me out to that degree, but the physio runs out to me and says, the noise that I was making on the ground was.
But this is how much times have changed.
We, you know, how serious we take concussion in the game now.
10 minutes after, I mean, it could have been 15 minutes, 10 minutes.
I don't know.
I'm sat in the.
Dugout.
The game's still going.
I'm sat in the interchange dugout talking to a bulldog supporter who goes by the name of doc.
Who's got one eye and he's got an eye.
He's got a patch and he and I mid conversation.
And I know the only thing I know is that you knocked me out.
That's the only thing I know.
And, but, but do you know that here's the thing.
So you have this whole thing of going, what have I done?
The shock.
Other people were shocked and had, you know, I think some people would have been like, that's a.
That's a disgrace and shitty.
And I genuinely was like, this is a great story.
And I'm kind of, this is, this was part of why I wanted to play league footy.
So you had that sense.
I did straight away.
I was, I had no ill feeling.
It was like, you know what?
I have my part to play in this.
I knew you had the ability to, to lose it and the red miss fall.
And I poked it and poked it and I got hit.
And, and you've.
Seen that red miss fall on more than one occasion.
And, and I love what you did too, because when you got back into the rooms, you wrote coward.
I told him I like it in permanent market.
And it was the last thing I saw the day I wrote.
I'm looking up at it and going, you know what?
That is just, it was perfect.
But that's also testament to you as well of going, you know what?
I probably did the wrong thing by knocking out this scrawny little.
And my punishment is to have coward.
I'd written on my locker.
What am I on?
I've never asked mine and John, but I don't think I've got the courage.
They must've gone.
No, they're like me.
They're like me.
They have this almost irrational love, care, and respect for guys, especially you and
Garlow and Ben Harrison and Todd Curley and Crofty and that era.
Because you genuinely looked after me and I mean that sincerely.
And I, I think they had a really hard time.
I know mum did.
I didn't know at the time because I was so young and physically like a child.
And I think, I think they were really, really worried.
And you guys looked after me in an unusual way at times, but they did.
And the way I spoke.
About you and the way you always treat them, they always felt like I was
being looked after and cared for.
And mate, that's beautiful to hear and, and, and I got the same and, and I think
people misunderstand that about sport is that, you know, I remember the privilege.
It's like, you get to go and drive our new recruit to training and then we form
this friendship almost immediately and it's, it's a lifelong, uh, friendship.
And to me, the roller coaster of sport, you and I have discussed this for many
years.
And you, you know, there's some stories to tell on that, but the thing you get
that I, is these lifelong connections and it doesn't matter if it's a year or a
week, they're so real and they're so unique, those, those friendships.
They're not there, but they're unusual to, I think, football relationships
because you're thrown together at different ages, different backgrounds,
political belief or religion, all of that sort of stuff thrown together.
And I always thought football, AFL football clubs.
As a business model, take away the winning games and premierships, and you've
got to win enough games to top for all that, but I always thought of 40,
particularly as a leader.
Okay.
Don't worry about the wins and losses.
We're trying to build connection and camaraderie, but as a business model,
it's a disaster.
You've got 44 players, 42 players, 22 or 23 play every week.
So at any one point, half of your workforce is not going to be able to play.
It's not in the position they want to be in.
And if you have the best year you've ever had as a business, if we just call it a
business, there's redundancies at the end of the year.
That's a, if that was a, if that was a company that was, if you're making plastic
cups, that is a dreadful structure for harmony and camaraderie.
It's a brilliant way to think about it.
And, and you're, you're a hundred percent wrong.
And so these friendships are.
There's often tension and they, uh, sometimes combative and there's jealousies
and there's egos involved in it.
But the thing I've found most curious and you and I are probably a great example
of it, of it starts off as mentor kid, and then we become peers because you sort
of get to this and then our lives go in completely different ways and then you've
got to.
Sort of navigate that and who, who are we now?
And what's our friendship now?
And, and then after a certain period and now, and I think you and I both feel the
same, you get to this point and all those that combative competitiveness that not
that you and I ever had jealousy, but that little tension.
And now we just get to share in what's a very harmonious, affectionate, joyful
thing.
Yeah.
And I think that.
Comes with age too, for me, Bob, isn't it?
And, and a bit of maturity.
And I think you, you paint the right picture around, which most people won't
understand in a, in a sporting environment where you should have half the place
incredibly disappointed.
And there is a sort of cadence with that, that you're right, adds tension.
But the other part is the, I think the friendships are unique, mate, because you
shower together for 14 years, twice a day, you go on holidays at the time off, you go
and spend too much time together beyond anything you're ever going to do in any other part
of your life.
And so, you know, each other, you know, all of the, the warts and all more than anyone,
almost your family sometimes, because you see you're at your worst, you see when you're
injured, you see on a free field.
Well, that's why I listen to footballers talk, that listen to the language they use when
they talk about each other, particularly now, love, brother, family, all of these, because
it is a, it's family.
It's not, it's not the Brady Bunch though.
It's not the Brady Bunch.
Or the Manson family.
No, at times.
But it is, you're being constantly judged, critiqued and reviewed in front of people
who you deeply, deeply admire and crave their respect.
And that's a, that takes a toll.
Yeah.
And I think this is one of the things.
I've admired about you.
I said, you know, your presence, even when you're 17 and you're as, as prepubescent as
you can be going into an AFL world.
But I think from the start, I didn't ever see you walk past something that you thought
was not attached to your values.
And I can think of it, mate, I've been thinking my Bucs weekend and we won't go into too many
details, but even late at night, you could call out something that you saw that young
people maybe.
Wouldn't or, you know, when it was uncomfortable to, to, if something was outside of your scope
of value, you're prepared to put some skin in the game at the cost of what that was going.
And you still do it to this day.
And I think that's the essence of, of leadership to me in some ways is putting yourself into
the uncomfortable because you genuinely believe this is right and that's wrong.
And you did that from a young age, which I admire.
That's definitely, yeah.
And that's, and I take that as a great compliment coming from you because I think.
In terms of leadership, and I know you're fast, you're as fascinated about leadership
and culture as, as I am.
I think you probably understood it and made peace with it at a much younger age than I
did.
I didn't see myself as a leader for a long, long time, probably because I didn't see someone
like me who was a leader.
Football during that time was very different and quite conservative and orthodox to me.
And I was trying.
Not just wanting to be unorthodox, trying to be, what else could you do?
How do you, you know, in terms of dressing differently, uh, doing different things, all
of that sort of thing.
And I, and it did take me a while to make peace with it, but I'm so interested by it.
And I think that our morals and ethics can vary from person to person and it's not about
being.
Perfect.
But I also think there's moments you go, that's not what it's about.
And I think one of the great things about 40 is you, it's this melting pot of different
people in background, but it's a compromise.
It's a 42 people band.
And when you put that jumper on, that's what brings you together.
And this is what we agree on in terms of standards behaviors.
And this is how we treat people.
And if people stepped out.
Of that, it's like, Oh, I have a problem with that.
And I, but I learned that from so many people and leadership.
I don't know how, I think, I don't know.
I always viewed you as having a very clear idea of the type of person and leader you
were from a very young age.
I built it like a magpie would build a nest.
I was always like, Oh, I loved your ability to have certainty of direction, whether you,
whether you.
Were certain of it or not, but you're like, that's the way we're going, let's go this
way.
And I was like, okay, he's cause I was full of doubt.
And I'm like, he's not, I'll follow him.
But then other bits like Scott wind, he had, he used the power of silence.
He would talk softly.
So you get a group of people and he would say something and it made you lean in.
And then he would let the words hang.
And I was like, Oh, that's interesting.
And there's other.
People that other leaders that did Terry wheeler used emotion and talk about what makes
us different and where to play footscray.
You have to cross the Maribyrnong river.
And I'm like, Ooh, I like that.
And so by the time I made peace with who I was as a leader, it was like, I, a bit of
that, a bit of that, a bit of that, a bit of that.
And then you make it your own.
And you did that, mate.
And I, my mind goes to being in Bali with you.
And as, as random as it was.
And the news broke that the club was in as big a turmoil as it had probably been.
As bad as bad as it can get.
As bad as it can get almost, isn't it?
I think so.
Brendan McCarthy was sacked as coach.
Ryan Griffin's a captain of the club.
Leaves.
He leaves and goes to another club.
Yep.
You're at the peak of your playing powers and, and, and a huge figure at the club.
But, and I remember where we're having a beer, we happened to be together.
All that news.
It all happened.
I was like fresh.
It was like 24 hours old.
I think that news.
Yeah.
And we're sitting.
We're sitting there and digesting it.
And I just remember you, you're taken on all on board and you, you know, there's some black
humor around all that, cuz that's how you cope and you, you're firing back and forth
and you turn.
I remember you said, I gotta be captain.
Mm.
I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna be captain.
I remember thinking that is awesome.
There's the first positive thing to happen and, and I didn't expect that to come out
of that conversation, but it was like, you know what, either did I, probably what I,
so what I find interesting about that.
Is, and what you've, what you left out there was when things are at that time, if you bottom
out at the Bulldogs, if you have multiple losing seasons and then, you know, the coach
gets sacked and the captain leaves the club survival is very much on the table and other
clubs don't have that pressure necessarily.
You can ride the wave, but at the Bulldogs, if it bottoms out, it could be the end of
the club.
Yeah.
But that was, that was our club and I, we love them to the point where it's part of
your marrow.
And I remember thinking I'm the oldest player at the club, so I have, I have a lot of guilt
and shame still from that time.
Cause it, it all went.
After that,
Because you were there when it went pear shaped.
Well, I've gotta take my responsibility of what happened during that time.
But I do find it.
I've only thought about this right now.
I did have that feeling of going okay well this is how do we get this back on track and
and the thing I admired about your leadership was that that forthright self-belief that was
infectious and I find it interesting as someone who met you had mentored me as a young kid that
I told you first I'm going to be captain and I should be captain because I that's something that
was not my style I would always be like oh whatever you know a bit a bit more circumspect
and sort of in that maybe look at and it was the first time in terms of leadership I was like
this is my job I have a responsibility to do this and I'm all in but I told you first and then what
happens you go back and the club is seemingly a decade away from success but beverage comes in
and you meet
the spiritual equivalent of you at that time and you know I remember checking in with you a lot
through that year and you were like oh this is different something different's happened you
become the Australian captain that year you play the house down the club turns literally 180
degrees it's almost as remarkable 2015 as any story in our history and then you go in you know
to 2016.
and I talk about sound bites of life and that's going to be one of your sound bites isn't it and
I was reluctant to even talk about it because it's a there's a football tragedy in it for me
that you know I I find you know really hard to actually talk to you about because you handled
yourself so fucking unbelievably well mate like I couldn't have I could not have done what you did
any way shape or form I don't believe that but well the class and the
actually you you got the joy out of it without being fine I could see you loving that moment
this 60-year premiership drought but you're the most important figure in it and then in this sort
of Shakespearean moment the coach hands his medal to you on the on the star I mean it's that's seven
years ago now or thereabouts I mean how's it age with you um it's like a um I describe it like uh
you know that you know they talk about the shades of Uluru at the time of day how it changes with the
light and for a long time like seriously battled with it really really battled with it but not all
like there were there are days when I look at it as what a what a what a beautiful thing to have
been a part of the team the team aspect of it was you and I are the most important people in the
biggest Bulldog supporters going around like that's that that's our club and we know the
history and the torture and all of that pain and to see 62-year premiership drought overcome
the euphoria is something it's hard to describe but my euphoria had warts on it yeah because
I was not where I was meant to be that's how it felt and I felt like I'd been robbed of my destiny
it was just not right and it's taken years for me to sort of make peace with it and it's taken
therapy and I've had and I'm quite open about that and I'm not I don't have hang-ups about
that sort of thing but just talking about it and working through it and it's it melted away the
the pain and even some shame and
an embarrassment because nothing happens now something happens in society now and we go to
our separate corners of are you 100 for that or do you think that that's no good and people
misunderstood that moment as I see it of Luke Beveridge gives me his premiership medal and
I think she's a premiership player it's like you clown
it's not you miss the point it's an intimate moment between he and I and in some ways it's not
even about me it was about every player who had ever played for the Bulldogs who didn't get to
play that's how that's my rationalization for it the medal is arbitrary it's not about the medal
was never about the medal it was about the hug and he knew I was living in athlete's agony
just wanted me to feel okay that was all it was and it was fucking unbelievable mate to because it's
you you handled it how you think about it and and and you know it's interesting you I think you're
right mate because I remember sitting on the ground I was working on the coverage on channel
seven I was on the boundary line and we had a big hug yeah I know mate and I looked up and and
knowing you your heart's breaking but then you know you always thought maybe the the
group that won't would there be some jealousy from all of us that battled and didn't do it but
it was like all of those uh demons were buried you know it was like it was a healing unbelievable
night it was just as joyful at that level but I didn't have to stand there going through the agony
and I I just yeah I um it's fucking cruel mate it's cruel at one level isn't it it is and I and
I've and don't worry I've had there's been but at my
lowest moments I thought apart from Sydney Swans so there's the Sydney Swans crew and I thought wow
this premiership is almost like a national celebration like it was more of a cultural
event than a premiership and at my low moments I was thinking probably me Mitch Wallace and Jack
Redpath are probably the only three blokes who don't get to enjoy it because we're the ones that
but they're they're they're the only three blokes who don't get to enjoy it because we're the ones
they're little moments they're little moments and they're not your best moments but they are
human reactions they're just because you wanted it so much you you wanted the euphoria without
the warts you wanted it you wanted it to be nirvana and it and it wasn't for some of us
but as time goes it was it was just how it was meant to be it was just how it was meant to be
and I'm and I'm not only am I okay I'm totally at peace with it
and I and I see it for what it was it was this incredible experience of this this magical team
with this this charismatic leader who in my opinion has changed masculinity in football
and what that actually means now we've we've ruined the world vulnerability we have we've just
we have misrepresented it overused it
it and driven it into the ground but but Luke Beveridge changed footy from in my opinion of
he's someone who's emotional affectionate can tell a story can be honest and authentic while also
being hard fair honest unflinching and tactically as sharp as a razor and I'd never had a coach who
had the balance
like that and I think people forget pretty quickly or even Brene Brown talks about authentic
vulnerability now because it's become so cliche but you look back at that time and you know
footy players didn't even hug really before then certainly didn't celebrate after a game I remember
through that final series all the crusty old uh media oh mate they've won their premiership already
because they well and we had to put up with it that week I remember there was there's a lot of
media personalities I remember there was a lot of media personalities I remember there was a lot of
I haven't forgotten who they are uh if I ever celebrated then I'm like you blokes don't get it
you think of the tragedy of you know I I used to quite knuckling it yeah that's
Nathan Buckley says he didn't enjoy one moment of his 14-year career as one of the greatest players
ever because he was told the only time he could celebrate was after a premiership he never won
it's like it's about as sad as it gets not good does a lot of damage to people not celebrating
a little more and that he taught that to the footy community that you need to be a footballer
to have the joy along the way and yeah unashamedly uh celebrated it's um and my your uniquely placed
because most people with the sporting brain don't have their creative brain the way yours works and
you're this unique blend of guitar player singer poet writer but love your sport as much as
have you understood that that there's I can't think of another person that I've been around in sport
thinks about the world creatively like you do I'm not sure if it's a uh I think to call me a guitar
player would be pretty offensive to a lot of musicians out there I just put that on record
I've sat there and seen you mate and and endured there's a difference between hacking a few guitar
chords and poor old Justine's at the center there's a bit of Ken from the Ken and Brian movie
but um sometimes in some ways it's a blessing and in some ways it's a curse
because uh being full-time into football and football is all consuming and sometimes just the
game was not enough for me I I needed to have something else and writing a newspaper column
gave me a great balance but then also being in the media and writing newspaper columns and
interviewing interesting people and doing what you're doing now and I loved so much of it but
then it was like
but but geez I miss the um camaraderie of us against them the actual game itself
um sort of can take it or leave a little bit I don't watch football like um obsessively
I don't I endure football tactics I don't have any real
um interest or and I'm not particularly skilled at seeing the mechanics of
the game
but the things around football leadership culture young men young women who are
got performance anxiety and how you might be able to help that and getting people to talk
and share about their emotion and to make them perform better that for me is like
that's the petrol for me um so to answer your question yeah I I do find myself
trying to find the balance of
what fills my cup in terms of being a part of a clan and also think you know having the ego enough
to go I've got something to say yeah and I want to write and I want to do something different
yeah and I feel that synergy with you too Bob to be honest with you that the the the nuts and bolts
and the stats of it have never really interested me but the team part and the connecting part and
finding a way to try and get better and the friendship
part and the the dynamics of different people coming in is you know you do it in a much more
one of the creative way I reckon that the the way I describe it to people is when I when I was playing
some people and you would have played I don't know where you sit I think you were far more astute than
I was but the the what I call the human battleships of footy which you have to you know the tactics of
the game and when the game stops this is where you need to send it that's not my native language at
all so I had to really
really concentrate and sit and okay how do I to lock in because I don't want to be selfish
and there's a response you can't just go oh I'm an instinct player it's like yeah okay well that's
great for you but you leave your mate so the the thing that gave me uh peace of mind was
I need to stand at this part of the ground when the game stops
not because it's the right thing to do and because that's what the coach wants I was like if I'm
there that will protect me I need to stand at this part of the ground when the game stops
like Dale Morris who's on his own in the goal square with Travis Cloak and if I can help protect
him that is a motivation for me that helps me that puts a human element to it instead of it
being like Tetris because if it's Tetris okay you got the intelligence enough to to be out and
work your way through that but I love your ways attach meaning to something and that's what makes
you unique and different and and I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know
I love about you know the the young lad that I uh picked up at the driveway is now great friends
with Paul Kelly the great artist and uh the the footy world opens up these pathways to meet people
and be in situations that you'd never dream of as a young kid same for me it's it's it's given
things that you'd never believe were possible and I was talking to you before we started because I
went through your Instagram and you know that that's not a word that I'm going to say but I
spent a lot of time in and um and I'm looking at pictures of Ben Mendelsohn and I'm thinking like
what's that all about you've got to explain the same thought but you've got to explain
because this gives people an insight into the quirky world that that you inhabit and I don't
fully understand it myself but it about as with about as much thought as a hiccup
on one Monday I said Alex I love Ben Mendelsohn as an actor and I was like huh
Mendo Monday's got a good ring to it yeah it's like what about if I just posted a photo of Ben
Mendelsohn on a Monday as random as that yeah and just called it Mendo Monday Mendo Monday
and just do it for a few weeks and see what happens and bizarrely enough I didn't do it one
week and you get it not I wouldn't say a flurry but enough people to go oh where is it where's
Mendo Monday we we liked it
we don't know what it means but we like I was like okay there's something here so I did it on
and off for about 18 months and it would be just a picture of Ben any sort of any sort of guys and
I'd try and do a little you know try and do a little play on words just for my own amusement
and people sort of you get along you get well some did and some like unfollow
but then something something magical happened about four months ago
so how long has this been going for oh this is a couple of years sporadically yeah there's quite
a lot of Mendo Mondays but not not every Monday but a lot of them and uh I got three direct messages
all from Ben Mendelsohn I'm like it's happened it's happened were you expecting it not hoping
yeah and it said I can't remember what I've got I'll I'll I'll show it to you but it
I looked at what he'd written and I was like that rings a bell it makes no real logical sense
and after a while I thought oh it's a cold chisel lyric and then I sat there for another two hours
going why stop for a minute Ben Mendelsohn sending Robert yeah a cold chisel lyric on
just in isolation yeah and that's his response to two and a half years of Mendo Mondays yep
somehow the Mendo Monday community has reached him or he's reached him and he's reached him and he's
or he's gotten somehow who knows how that world works you know who cares don't try and figure it
out the universe brought it together and I sat there for two hours going why has he written a
cold chisel lyric and then I twigged that a year before I'd forgotten it was even there but you
know on your Instagram bio I had you know Bob Murphy and I just written underneath who needs
that sentimental bullshit anyway which is a line from flame trees so he's just written a cold chisel
lyric and another cold chisel lyric and I'm like I'm on air so we go back and forth talking about
cold chisel for about five messages and I'm thinking I mean let me make sure this is going
to end up in a barbecue it's going to end up in mates going to go hang out in LA with Mendo
and Mendo was Mendo he couldn't have been cooler because he was just
abstract unusual kept me guessing but I was on the hook and then I I'm well well because I'm not
cool enough to keep up with Mendo and I have a rush of blood and go hey Ben I just have to let
you know that I'm a massive fan I love your movies and just the way that you have your cigarette
dangle from your lip how much you reckon I heard from Mendo after that radio silence never again
that was the end of it that was the end of Mendo Monday and that's just genius and it's probably
the right way to finish you know it's like he was he was him and I held out as long as I could and
then I was me and I lost and that was the end and that was the end hey Bob I uh I love asking
these questions and I'm going to be very fascinated by you because we we someone said to us success
leaves clues and there's these dimensions that make people consistently successful that we're
a little bit obsessed about and the work we're doing in the leadership space and we we feel
like there are some patterns in it um starting with this sort of concept first dimension is idea
of self-leadership that yeah you can't lead anyone else unless you've got an idea of self
you've described a bit of that what does that mean to you uh so I I've done enough personality
tests and traits and those things and they always come back with I have a um
a
a
a
a
bias towards storytelling uh intuition but symbolism uh so I love I love symbolism and I
love I mean I could talk about leadership and cultural philosophy all afternoon but I actually
think it's a bit of a trap and a bit of a wank yeah because that's all correct so I like what
what can I touch and feel when we're in this building or when we're in your football club or
when you when you're in your football club or when you're in your football club or when you're in
when you're in your home what are the practical things that actually matter so the most obvious
thing in sport is the well not the most obvious thing but one of the almost like a cliche is the
all black sweeping the sheds so what's something small that captures something big Martin Flanagan
told me that one day he said if you want to tell a big story and culture and leadership are huge
themes so if you want to tell a big story tell a small story and if you want to tell a big story
and so things like not throwing a jumper on the ground after a game is something those those
little things and I like I do like quotes but I like minimalism and a coach who shall remain
nameless once said no selfish pricks no weak pricks and I was like huh that's that's not how I would
use it but that's six words and you cover a fair bit of ground but there's none better than Ali
me we and in my work that I do at the dockers with the men's leadership group
the structure of the meeting is me we team club so the meeting starts with me how are you as a
leader how'd you go this week as a leader how did I go as a leader how did you go this week as a
leader go around the room how did we all go as a leader that's the me then the we is who's got any
feedback for anyone else on how they went as a leader well Luke I reckon in the third quarter
when you went back with a flight was inspiring and it made me feel great but in the last quarter
you didn't chase and I reckon you're better than that then get into team how is the rest of the
team going how how can we help them how then get the club can be programmed and I think
too many leadership groups or people in leadership go to operations oh the taps are leaking we want
to can we get a day off next Thursday so that's not leadership and if well if it is it's a very
small and it's low-hanging fruit and it's impersonal and it's easy that the me and the
we stuff's hard and it's uncomfortable but that's where the good stuff is yeah you got a brilliant
way about how to simplify things that people make complex it's
one of your great skills and you hear the army generals talk about actually making your bed
first thing though dude yeah is actually the first positive thing you do for the day and yeah I think
you sum that up really well the idea of impacting people positively every day we now see people
really conscious of that Bob and you're not necessarily on the big scale of time but on a
day-to-day basis how do I have a positive impact have you thought about that yeah so I this is why
I have a hard time with the word vulnerability
because I think it's it doesn't chime for me I know I I know when it's used in the right
sense and it's changed sport for the better yeah I just think there's a better word and the word
is sincere and something again small but practical I deal with my time as a both a captain and now as a
as someone who works in leadership in a football club
environment's important sitting opposite a player who's struggling or anxious or whatever they've
got going on and that's what we are essentially dealing with a generation now and a society who's
ravaged by anxiety mental health issues to varying degrees and I just naturally my way I was like
let's walk a lap so you walk a lap with someone young player who's dealing with something yeah
form
relationship issues whatever it is could be on the whole spectrum of whatever it is
but just the fact that you're walking a lap so you're not face to face there's a freedom to the
conversation and I've never really been the one for oh the carrot and the stick
I don't like that's a bit I don't know maybe because it's a cliche I'm like well I'd rather
do something different but I think a sincere chat is me walking with a young player and I put my
arm around him and that's a symbol of I'm with you we're on the same team we wear the same jumper I'm
in your corner but at the same time I can then with the other hand hit him in the shoulder and
go but what you did on the weekend is not up to standard and it's not you at your best and I just
for some reason people might go well that's useless or that's not but I've found that to be
and that's authentically you that sentence there
is you know to take the time to put your arm around someone walk the lap be authentic always
but then people underestimate your ability to do exactly what you said which is give it right
between the eyes to someone in your way once you've built that trust it's sincere and it's
authentic you know the thing about this is the thing I've found about football if I said hey uh
I don't look um let's I want to give you some feedback
people
immediately whether they think they do or not will brace there's gonna be criticism
my experience of particularly male footballers
have a much harder time giving a compliment in a sense 110 percent it's the and particularly in
this part of the world way people find that more painful to sit in a room and everyone go around
and say and even to receive it yeah but that's I think that's the that's the thing that's the
That's what I'm most passionate about and that's what I am trying to impart in whatever my career progresses to of, hey, you know when you take on that Ruckman and wear him down over three quarters, I need you to know that we all see that and we value it and it makes me feel like a better player.
But equally in the last quarter, when he got on top of you and I feel like you maybe went off the ground when you probably could have stayed out there, I think you're a bit better than that. Same tone, sincere, I mean it. I'm not humiliating you. I'm still with you, but you know exactly what I value and what I don't.
And also I think people have got the power of, you want to do more of the selfless.
Celebration part, it's like, gee, give me more of that. I want that feeling more. And now I know this is what my team values for me. And when it's unspoken and you don't reward that, it's such low hanging fruit to use your term from before. But it's something we are, a lot of people would much rather, you give someone a spread, here's the 20 things you do really well and the one you don't, what are you going to focus on? Instantly and put all your energy into that. If you put your energy into the 90%.
And how do you create the environment?
There's a big difference between how are you to how are you? And I put my hand on your arm. If I ask you how are you, I don't even care. It's just a sound. It's a routine. We do it. It's kind of halfway down the corridor already. But I say, hey, can I have a word? How are you? How are you really? That's a different kind of a conversation because sometimes players and men, we give each other a compliment.
And as it's coming, I go, mate, your overhead marking as an example, it's a crude example, but your overhead marking is as good as anyone in the comp. Oh, but it's not as good as Charlie Curnow there. And you walk away from it. Just get me out of this conversation. I'm not comfortable.
You actually go, mate, slow down. I'm telling you what you do on the field is really worth something. And I admire it.
Yeah. I wanted to pick up on the anxiety conversation just quickly. I was listening to this great researcher and neuroscientist who studied anxiety now for 25 years and was talking about how it's been demonized in a way. Like anything, there's a spectrum. At one level, people have got proper anxiety disorders and we know they're diagnosable and need to be treated. And so you're not diminishing that in any way.
No, no, no.
But now, as you said, it's like an epidemic of anxiety around young people.
And the next generation and her thesis without being unkind was to say, we've misdiagnosed the word. It's an evolutionary gift in some ways that actually that little bit of nervous energy and that anxiety.
Well, yeah. What's anxiety and what is a high level of care and nerves? There's a difference.
Yeah.
An elite sport is a very unique world. And the cliche of I'll get comfortable being uncomfortable is so true.
And I use it in my world. I look at it and I go, I look at people who've been gifted or inherited too much money as one of the great curses in life. And I've seen it, you know, as it becomes a small city, Melbourne, and you watch people and you wouldn't wish that on your worst enemy.
Mm-hmm.
Even though all of us,
I think, give me the 50 mil, I'll be the one that I'll handle okay. Because you take away that little bit of anxiety or a lot of anxiety. It's like, I've got to find something to feed my family and to sort of, you take that away from someone, it produces a whole different set of problems and stresses and issues.
That's very interesting. So this is what I have thought about a bit more recently. So people feel, I think there's a lot of people that feel sorry.
Mm-hmm.
And I would 100% turn into an arsehole.
I doubt it. I doubt it. But.
Getting everything you want.
Yeah.
Uh, that's a, be careful.
And kids getting everything they want on a parenting level.
They were jumping off in a whole range of directions, but I love asking the parenting question. You know, you've father of three. What do you like on the home front?
It's like, uh, it's like a green top versus the West Indies most mornings.
In the eighties, it's, uh, it's just right out helmet on.
I mean, we all think, don't we?
That however many kids we have and they'll be pretty similar.
And then of course they're not, and they're wildly different.
And just when you think, yeah, I think things are cruising along here now, like, nah, it's almost waiting to get hits worse than the hit.
Um, we're a sitcom.
That's how I would describe us at the moment.
We're at that stage of, there's a lot of love.
There's a lot of laughter.
There's always been a lot of affection.
Um, but we're all as mad as a trolley wheel and anything can happen.
Yeah, we are.
We're a sitcom and you know, kids are 15, 13 and nine.
So we've got teenage stuff and, and those things have, you know, they're, they're, they're problems.
Uh,
they're bigger problems than they were a few years ago.
Um, but they're good.
We love them.
I'm so proud of them.
And they, they handle setbacks well.
And that's probably what gives me most pride.
I reckon because life isn't easy and they handle those challenges and moving them over to WA at that age was a huge, a huge move.
I knew it would be hard.
And I had a lot of guilt around.
And that, because it was essentially my decision for, because I felt like I needed to change a lot of things and reinvigorate and put myself out of my comfort zone.
But yeah, you know, you, you do it to your family as well.
And the first year was, was really rough, really hard on all of us.
Changing schools.
Changing schools and leaving friends behind.
And WA, you know, when, when that time difference goes from two hours to three hours, it's like you live in Texas.
If you've got people back in Victoria, it's like, yeah, no, that's, that's too hard.
But the way they've adjusted, they're brave.
They really are.
Now they're settled.
They got good friends.
They work hard.
Um, yeah, it's, but the reasons why we did it, I've sort of flowered, if you know what I mean?
I don't know for how long we'll be there, but it was, um, I think we needed to do it.
Mutual friend of ours, Rob Sitch.
I love talking parenting with Rob.
And as.
I know you've interviewed Rob, which is a great experience.
What a man.
What a man.
I love talking, you know, him and Jane with their five kids and, and that parenting, I talk about the parenting guilt where you have your bad moments and you go, oh, far out.
I've dropped the ball there.
I've had a shocker here.
Yeah.
And, and he's great.
Cause he's like, you're in the elite 0.1% because you care about that.
But you're trying.
And you're reflecting on that.
That's the bit.
That, the fact that you go, phew, I probably could have done a bit better there.
That.
Yeah.
That's, that's, that's a good parent.
You don't see the other part is that unfortunately there's a bracket that, that don't, um, your vision.
And we talk about leaders with creating and sharing a vision and you articulated that.
I love your family description, like a green top against the West Indy.
I mean, you're in leadership roles at the moment and you've changed your life.
If you've got a clear vision, the way you describe your team meetings is a pretty clear way.
Is that the way you go about it through the way you like things explained?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like the simplicity of those things.
I don't like to overcomplicate it and have it, have it too intellectual.
I think with, particularly in, in footy and sporting environments, you and I could go into any football club and we come up with a mission statement or a trademark and ended it and a symbol.
And these are the behaviors.
And because you and I.
Yeah.
Quite academic.
I mean, we could, but we could fake it, but it's it, it, the trap I see is that it can be really intellectual and it will appeal to the most fanatical and intellectual players on your list.
But if it doesn't, if it is not understood and viscerally felt by the least fanatical player or the least intellectual player on your list, it's not worth a pinch of shit.
So how do you get that storytelling, symbolism, standards of behavior to be understood so that people feel good about it and what you reward is what your culture is.
Yeah.
And eventually you just keep rewarding, reward, reward.
And those that don't want to jump in, they just behave their way out.
Yeah.
And that's okay.
Cause it's not for everyone.
That's.
There's some natural selection in that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I look back at.
Some of those long, long meetings and teammates you went, you've, you've lost some at the two minute mark.
You lost everyone at the 20 minute mark and we're now I'm 40 in it's like far out.
So that's what I spend a lot of my time thinking because, you know, people, you know, trademark and all that sort of, it's, it's, you know, a lot of businesses and clubs and all.
I think of it as the 13 minute rule.
So at the 13 minute mark, you haven't touched the ball.
And where do you go in your thinking?
Where do you go as close to getting your next position as you can?
Well, that's what, so a lot of players go, the runner's coming out to take me off and I haven't touched the ball.
And then my position's under pressure.
The power, if you've got a really good team culture that's supported by the coaches and the leaders and they're consistent on it.
It's like in those moments when the.
Anxiety comes through and I want to get a kick cause that'll make me feel better.
Go back to what is your role?
What does the team need you to do right now?
Now, if that's stay there on the off side wing and not be anywhere, they won't play your role.
Play your role is the most beautiful cliche in the game.
I love it.
Yeah.
But it just, it gets said so many times that you can almost not hear it, but it's your life raft.
It's a player's life raft away from an anxiety that.
Manifests in selfish behavior.
I, um, oh, my mind was drifting.
I, you would've heard me tell this story before, but my third ever, I told him my third ever game.
I could not have been played.
I told you the story Waverley playing on Chris Lankford, who was like Superman and he looked like him and one of the great athletes.
I had no right to be out there and he was just marking everything.
And you know, when you know you like your moment, like, and no, no sophistication, you know, the runner's coming your way and you try not to look, but you know, and Chris Burton's our runner at the time.
Yeah.
Um, and he had this, you might've crossed over with, but I did, you know, I did just did.
Yep.
I did.
He had a special way, but, and I'll never forget, he comes out and he's laughing and he goes, mate, the coach, and he says, this didn't take me aside.
So the length of couldn't hear it.
Like it was like, so everyone around the half forward flight, he goes, mate, the coach thinks you're playing the worst game in VFL, AFL history.
And he's, and he's laughing and I can see length shoulders sort of just, they bubble up and down a little bit.
Cause he's laughing and he goes, do you know what's even funnier?
He's actually going to leave you out of here because he doesn't think it's possible to play any worse.
And then he trots off a long way from Ben Crow.
Oh, I remember just looking around going, this is going to be the shortest AFL career in history, but that was the era, wasn't it?
Like there was a, there was a touch of genius in it, but it was, well, the thing, the thing about it is that fear works.
Fear does have a fuel, but when it's over, it blows up.
Well, the adjunct to that story is that the next one that came down, I did, I somehow found a way and then, you know, liver picked it up and we scored our next goal.
And, and, and this is this day with me for my whole career, because then liver went up to Chris Lankford's like, mate, you're getting your fucking pants pulled down by that, you know, spitting at him and the bits swearing at him.
And I remember thinking, oh shit liver, you haven't watched the game, you know, far out.
You're sort of giving him the, mate.
Mate, yeah, this is, you've sort of missed the mark here.
You've gone, you've gone.
Just overcooked this one a bit.
Sort of, I remember looking going, I've got to learn to care as much as that.
Yeah.
If I'm going to stay around here, that's the level, you know, and what he was doing was actually going, I'm going.
So that's the nugget of gold, not the shame, fear, uh, I can make, I can, I can give an effort because of that shame and embarrassment.
Cause you can, and you would have played well the next week on it and you might've had a good year on it, but I would argue.
After three or four years of getting to the line, playing on fear and potential shame and all those things, you just blow up and it causes.
Not sustainable is it?
And it causes probably problems in your life outside the game.
And I think that's where footy's changed a fair bit for the better.
Curiosity is a dimension we talk about a lot, Bob, and we see, you know, people who are leaders and successful, constantly curious.
Does that resonate with you?
Yeah.
Endlessly.
And I think.
I, you know, almost accidentally, I have a, a pretty eclectic group of people in my life who I just check in with and you're one of those, but I, from all different walks of life and just go, what do you think about this?
And tell me about that.
And that's a bit of this building the nest thing of, oh, that's interesting.
I'll pinch a bit of that.
Ooh.
Like, what did you do?
How did that, why, how did that, sometimes it's sport, sometimes it's art, sometimes it's music, whatever it is, but it's like, oh, there's a bit of that.
It's a bit of that.
I remember talking to Tex Perkins and I said, what do you like two minutes before a show?
And he said to me, he goes, and this is the, this is the rock star, the cocksure, I'm the man, you know.
The ultimate rock star.
The ultimate macho alpha.
Two minutes before a show, every show, and he's done thousands, is why am I doing this?
Why have I put myself in this situation?
My life's choices have led me to this point and I don't have what they want me to do.
Wow.
I would rather be anywhere else.
Get me out of this hell.
And I go, what about you walk on and the lights come and he goes, yeah, and it goes away.
And then you get the double bounce of this is the greatest.
It was my experience with footy at times.
Man, I remember hearing Tony Lockett, the greatest goal kicker and one of the greatest, you know, legends of the game and the scariest player that was ever on a footy field.
He literally, you know, stood in that hole once and you just saw.
Like a boogie monster.
And he would, you know, routinely remind people that he was capable of killing people and mean it.
And they, they say, the guys that play them say he was physically throwing up before every game through nerves.
It's like, mate, you made a lot of us physically nervous.
We were on the toilet as well.
I'm thinking about Tony.
What if I have to go back with a flight?
But even he.
Because he cared.
Yeah.
And, and that's the, the best, one of the best things.
And one of the hardest things about footy.
And it's the uncomfortable truth for anyone playing elite footy.
Every week you put yourself and your team's reputation on the line.
And doesn't matter what you've done before.
You have to do it every week.
And that's hard.
And it takes a toll.
And at some point I felt like right at the end, I was like, I can't do that anymore.
I've exhausted that part of my soul or whatever it is.
Yeah.
It's the, I admire, I admire that if you get out there once, um, I went to a UFC event.
My three boys are obsessed with UFC and I, that's a crazy sport.
Oh my God.
Not a sport I could imagine.
I used to do the kickouts.
At, at Marvel and used to be like anxious.
Imagine stepping in with Conor McGregor who's kick me, headbutt me and punch me after I've
been knocked out.
Watching that walk into that cage and thinking, talk about performance anxiety, just thinking
the courage required to, to do that next level.
But it's dealing with that anxiety, isn't it?
You know, you had a great way of communicating Bob.
Well, the mention we talk about a lot and it's unique always has been, you give it much
thought.
I mean, you're right with, uh, wisdom and you mentioned Martin Flanagan, one of the
great writers, you know, in Australia, who becomes a great friend of yours.
You have put together this eclectic group of people in, in your life.
Is it something that you, you've given care and thought to how you communicate?
Um, oh yeah.
I think part of it is.
And the, and the writing thing has been the biggest gift for me and for the life of me.
And you knew me at that part of my life.
I was cruising through, got by on a bit of natural talent.
I wouldn't have been described as the hardest worker or the most fanatical and, but I got
offered to write for the age and for the life of me, I cannot believe that I said, I'd like
to write it and not get a ghostwriter, which was not what, not what footballers did.
Not at all.
And I, but for some reason I went, no, no, I'd like to write, I would, I would like to
learn the craft of that and had no idea what I was doing and just went on total instinct
and go, okay, well, if there was one thought I thought I would like to, it's almost like
a thank you letter and what I love about the game.
Cause at the time I didn't really love the game as enough.