Chloe Dalton, the founder of the Female Athlete Project, is seriously inspiring.
In this conversation, she shares how as a seven-year-old watching the great Cathy Freeman win gold at the Sydney 2000 Olympics
inspired her to win her own Olympic gold medal in Rio in 2016.
Listen to Chloe recount the powerful words that her dad and brother said to her that really shaped her success as an athlete
and how a British Olympic triathlete's courage to share a personal photo went viral on her platform,
the Female Athlete Project, and created a unique conversation.
Chloe also shares and references the storm that erupted around a clip of Perth Lord Mayor Basil Zemplis
that went viral on her platform, the Female Athlete Project,
and how now the added responsibility of being a publisher is a position that she takes really seriously.
A really inspiring conversation with Chloe Dalton.
And it is people like Chloe Dalton that really inspire the work we do at Alita.
In particular, our signature program, Alita Connect, bringing together a range of different people from unique backgrounds
in collaborative forums of five or six.
We host these forums online.
We would love you to check it out and head to alitacollective.com.
Thanks to Temper, Jason Nicholas and his team from Temper Australia,
our great supporters of the Powering Leaders podcast.
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Chloe Dalton's impact on female.
Her sport is an extraordinary story.
She is one of Australia's few triple sport elite athletes.
After playing basketball in the WNBL with the Sydney Uni Flames,
Chloe transitioned to rugby, where she debuted for the Australian rugby sevens team in 2014.
At the Rio 2016 Olympics, Chloe Dalton won gold with the Australian sevens team
and was awarded an Order of Australia medal for her service to sport on the back of it.
She was also recognised as Australia's top rugby sevens player in 2017, winning the Sean McKay medal.
Chloe then cross-codes again to Aussie Rules, making her debut in 2019 for Carlton and the AFLW.
She was named runner-up in the Carlton Best and Fairest in the 2020 AFLW season.
Chloe currently plays AFLW for the GWS Giants.
She is the founder of the Female Athlete Project,
a brilliant platform that shines a light on the lack of attention given to women in sport.
Chloe, great to catch up with you.
Thanks for taking the time.
Thanks so much for having me, Luke.
You're an Olympic gold medalist.
You've played three sports at the highest level, achieved an enormous amount in a short amount of time.
You must be really proud.
Yeah, it was interesting actually at my 30th birthday.
My partner organised just a really nice dinner with close family and friends
and I think it's one of those things like when people have the milestone birthdays
that they feel a little bit worried about getting older and all of those things
but it happened to fall on the year that we put two books out
and had a huge amount of growth with the Female Athlete Project.
So it was kind of a nice time.
It was a nice time to actually reflect on being able to tick off some big life goals
before the age of 30, which was nice.
Well, you're setting a high bar for everyone, Chloe.
You're making us all feel like serious underachievers on every level.
You're an author.
I missed out on that.
Tell us about the two books that have been released.
Yeah, so I don't think I'll ever write a book ever again.
It was one of the hardest processes I've been through.
I know lots of footy players have ghost writers that come on board.
I kind of regret not going ahead with that.
That's a good path.
I decided to write it on my own.
I was approached by Alan and I'm one and Tessa, my editor,
just slid into my DMs one day and she was like,
do you want to write a book?
And I was like, I do not want to write an autobiography
if that's what we're talking about here.
And she was like, no, I've been following the Female Athlete Project
for a long time and I think it's the perfect time
and you're the right person to write a book about women's sport.
And so, yeah, took on that challenge and released
Girls Don't Play Sport.
It was during the time of the FIFA Women's World Cup.
In 2023, which was quite amazing.
I think part of it was strategic from the publishers
because they knew there'd be a lot of conversations
around women's sport.
But just to kind of be in discussion at that point in time
about the state of women's sport as a whole but where it can actually
go in future and what needs to be done to ensure the continued success
of women's sport was really great timing with that book.
And then my favourite one is the kids' book that came
out late last year.
It's called The A to Z of Who I Could Be.
And it's an alphabet book of 26 incredible Aussie female
and non-binary athletes.
And I just want little kids to be able to sit down and read that book
with their parents before they go to bed and just see some incredible
athletes that we have in this country who I believe deserve
to be household names but potentially aren't because they haven't received
that same level of media coverage.
And it is an incredible impact and legacy that you've created already
and want to talk about that extensively.
I think I've got to jump into the FIFA Women's World Cup
because you brought it up.
And I did want to go there at some stage.
What an extraordinary example of what you've been championing, isn't it?
I think the numbers, 11.5 million people, 40% of the Australian population
watched that final game the Matildas played.
We were all absolutely just beside ourselves with how much we were
It smashed all the records for television history.
I think it went past Cathy Freeman at the 2000 Olympics.
I mean, it's sort of what you've been saying, isn't it?
Give the right coverage.
Give the right example.
And the audience is there.
It was brilliant.
It's also really important to note the investment that Football Australia
put in and the planning.
I think sometimes we see those events right on TV and it's kind of like,
well, it just worked.
But I think Football Australia were obviously really deliberate
in their approach knowing what a huge opportunity it was.
And it was so cool, like some of those records of viewership
that you touched on, like it was just really cool.
I think as someone who works in that space, but not only that,
like I think there were so many girls and women watching that
Really would have felt seen by what the Matildas did
and having some really tangible numbers in a way
is a really validating feeling because often we end up
in comment sections and even in sport, like when I'm playing footy,
like sometimes it feels like we're going out trying to prove
that women deserve an opportunity to play and compete
at the highest level.
So I think for a lot of people across the nation,
I think that would have been a huge moment to be like,
these women are out there doing what they do best
and they're being seen and they're being valued
and they're being celebrated.
It was a pretty special moment.
And the data's always hard to argue with, isn't it?
When you have more than, you know, close to half
the Australian population behind an Australian women's team,
what a brilliant moment.
It's a culturally significant thing that's happened.
I want to go back to you, Chloe, and your remarkable story.
As a young girl, I understand basketball was the path
and your dream was to play basketball professionally
and you got there.
But it didn't quite work out for you and you've decided
What was the impetus for that?
Yeah, I got to the WNBL.
I was playing for the Flames at the time and I spent a lot
of time doing a bit of Paddy Mills tower waving on the bench,
giving out a lot of high fives, not making much of an impact
And I tried really hard but I just couldn't crack it.
And to be quite honest, I probably just wasn't up
to that standard.
Like it wasn't like I was this superstar.
I was being put on the bench and didn't get my opportunity.
I just wasn't at that level and I was trying to get my chance,
trying to get my opportunity, but it just didn't work out.
And so knowing that I had this goal from when I was seven years old,
watching Cathy Freeman at Sydney 2000 of winning my very own
Olympic gold medal, I went home after basketball training one day
and I typed into Google list of Olympic sports and I had a look
at a few different options and contrasted.
I contemplated what I could do and what I couldn't do.
And this was early in the back end of 2013 and I saw that Rugby Sevens
was going to be in the Olympics for the very first time.
And because I'd grown up in a rugby family, I had a great understanding
Like Friday nights and weekends with my family were spent either
watching the Waratahs or the Wallabies or going down
to my local footy field down at Rat Park to watch my brothers play.
Like rugby was a huge part of our lives.
So I had this really inherent understanding of the game,
but I didn't know.
I didn't know the skills of the game.
I didn't know how to tackle or the ruck and the breakdown
and things like that.
So I had a fair bit to learn in about two and a half
to three years' time before the Olympics.
That's an ambitious thing to take on.
I've got to back up and Cathy Freeman, you're seven years of age,
you see that magical moment in Australian sport and was there
a narrative going on in your head, I want to be there one day
and win Olympic gold?
Yeah, I just was mind blown as a kid.
Watching her just walk out onto the track and zip up
that custom-made bodysuit and pull the hood over her head
and just the way that she did it with the weight
of the whole country on her shoulders, I just was mind blown
and I was like, I want one of those for myself.
And mum did scrapbooking back in the day,
which obviously parents don't do these days
because everything's digital, but she got me to write down
on this piece of cardboard, my biggest dream is to go
I picture myself standing on the podium,
with a gold medal around my neck, smiling the biggest smile
I've ever made or something along those lines.
And I think I was, yeah, probably 10 years old
when I wrote that down.
So it was just this massive goal that throughout my whole life,
I just wanted to win an Olympic gold medal.
How incredible is the power of visualisation and actually having
that at such a young age and having that in your mind
and creating your own future.
And I'm jumping around a little bit, but I'm intrigued
because your role now with the Female Athlete Project,
you spend a lot of time.
Have you sat down with Cathy Freeman?
Have you been able to share that story?
I'm sure you've met plenty of her idols in recent times.
Yeah, I've had the chance to meet a couple of my idols,
two of the main ones being Anna Mears and Lauren Jackson,
but Cathy Freeman is still on the list.
So if you've got any connections, can you hit me up?
Cathy, right now, get on to the Female Athlete Project
and chat to Chloe.
She's what an extraordinary person she is in every sense of the word.
And I'm sure she'd be honoured.
So because of what you're doing for other female athletes
in such a profound way, I've got to go back to the changing code stuff
because that's just ridiculous what you've done from quitting basketball
and then going on to Olympic gold in rugby.
You broke your arm three times in the first 12 months.
How did mum feel about that?
I'm sure she wasn't rapt.
It was quite interesting.
Like even my first game, my first ever game of sevens,
I was playing just with my local club with the Warringah Rats
at a sevens tournament.
And I don't know.
I don't know how to tackle.
And so I'd put my head on the wrong side, came away with a black eye.
And I remember dad came over to me and he was like,
turn the other way, like don't let your mother see your black eye.
And I think it was probably a reflection of her getting used
to her daughter playing rugby.
But I think even in saying that, like my older brother who played
for years was this skinny, lanky, like string bean who'd play
And even when he'd get tackled, she'd cringe and get worried
about him getting injured.
But, yeah, it was a really interesting,
interesting process.
And I think the more I've been able to reflect throughout my career,
when you have the highs that you get to celebrate with your family
and close people, it's really special because they're the ones
that have to experience the three broken arms or whatever
those setbacks look like.
And I just remember so clearly when I fractured my arm
for the third time in the space of 12 months.
And I think at that point we were probably half a year
out from the Rio Olympics.
And mum and I went to the surgeon's office.
And me and my surgeon had a great relationship because I ended
up back there all too frequently, unfortunately.
But I remember sitting down in his office and I was studying
physiotherapy at the time.
And he said, like, after your rugby career,
you've got to use your hands for your job.
Like your bone's not in good health.
My left ulna had been shattered a couple of times and I'd obviously
had I think about eight or nine screws and a long plate inserted
into my arm and I just had kept fracturing it.
you probably need to have a think about this.
Like, is this something that you want to keep doing?
And I remember going out to sit on the park bench with mum and we both
were pretty emotional and I just said,
I really want to win an Olympic gold medal.
I'm going to do it.
And I committed and got that surgery done.
I think that one I had a graft taken from my hip bone to fill some
of the holes in my arm and touch wood.
Three was enough fractures in my arms being good since then.
I'm going through it at the moment,
as a parent seeing our oldest son play elite sport and you,
you just see danger all of a sudden everywhere.
and your only thought is it's bizarre,
a sport that you played yourself all your life.
Suddenly it's like,
Stay away from there.
He's clearly not listening at all,
that is just your mind.
it's agonizing to watch.
And so you're right.
Isn't it for your family to,
they understand the pain of what the third broken arm and
how devastating that was for you must have then been to have them over in rio on the on the gold
medal dice that must have been really special yeah it's that's like when i look back on that
moment like siren sounded and we'd beaten new zealand and and there are probably two moments
that will stay with me forever obviously standing on the podium with my teammates and like that
moment when we had our gold medals around our necks and you lift your arms together like
it's what i dreamt of right like it was like what i'd been working towards since i was seven years
old and it's it still feels pretty surreal that i get to have an olympic gold medal like kathy
freeman does you know but the i think the biggest one was this moment when before we went over to
put our tracksuits on before the medal presentation we all stood arm in arm my teammates and i we ran
towards the stadium and all my favorite people up in the stands mom and dad my siblings my cousins
my auntie and uncle some of my cousins my cousins my cousins my cousins my cousins my cousins my
closest friends and there's this awesome photo from around the time of when i wrote in that
scrapbook that dream about becoming an olympic gold medalist and all my extended family had
traveled to canberra to watch me compete in national cross country and there's this photo
of all of them there and then i've got this photo from rio and it's the exact same group of people
and i think it was just so amazing to have them there to celebrate that but also to be able to
express gratitude to them
i always get emotional when i tell this story and no matter how many times i tell this story
all the time and no matter how many times i tell it i always get emotional like the fact that
they just backed me i think that was the biggest thing like i remember that google search i was
still living with mom and dad at that point and i just was like what about rugby why don't i try
to go to the olympics for the for rugby and dad's first the first thing dad said i reckon you'd be
great at rugby you know and just having the support of of your people in your corner is
such a huge thing and i think that's the biggest thing that i've ever seen in my life and i think
how incredible was that isn't it for your first reaction to your dad not you might get hurt while
you're doing that i reckon you'll be great that is an incredible you know moment isn't it to start
with and i understand you mentioned your siblings michael and bailey the two brothers they were
great supporters and continue to be of of you along the way they've had a special place for
you understand yeah for sure and i like i just look back on when i was trying to learn the game
just getting out in the backyard i put on every piece of protective equipment
like shoulder pads headgear mouth guard i wanted to like shove a pillow down my shirt at one point
when i was learning to tackle because i just got them like they're pretty big boys and i just got
them both to run at me over and over and over again until i could learn how to tackle and there
was a really clear memory that stood out i remember going down to rat park and bailey my younger
brother he was still playing at the time and i asked him to get down i wanted him to get down
early enough that he wasn't going to be tackling with his sister and his teammates would rock up
but but that a few of them rocked up early and they were kind of just like
taking the piss out of him and you know like oh your sister's gonna run over the top of you and
and he just turned to them and said something like she's gonna be a better rugby player
than i ever was and it was just like a cool moment i think publicly for him he didn't have to say that
and maybe he didn't even believe it at the time but just for him to publicly back me in that space
i think was really cool because there was a lot of that right like as a woman going into a rugby club
and and particularly 10 years ago that it was now like
wasn't the most welcoming space you're wearing oversized jerseys there's not a change room to
get change in the first grade men's team have access to the change room and we're just out the
back maybe under a tent getting ready like it's not the most welcoming environment to walk into
back then so to have the support publicly of of my little brother in that space was a pretty special
thing i can feel the hairs down the back of my neck with that isn't it what a legend again to
your mates are taking the piss out of you it's not an easy one to then say my little sister's
going to be a gun and and i'm proud to be here alongside of it you've had incredible support
haven't you close to home yeah it's it's been a huge huge part of my journey i think i'm really
fortunate as well like again reflecting like i think with sport you have to have an army of people
to support you in that you know like as a kid you don't realize like mom and dad we were we were
chatting about this recently like mom and dad probably for 15 years straight never had a long
weekend we never went for a beach holiday or
anything like that we never went for a beach holiday or anything like that we never went for a
because they just completely committed to us and our sport and the dreams that we wanted to
achieve and it's not until you grow up that you actually appreciate what that allows you to do so
i'm i'm incredibly fortunate i think that they were willing to commit but also in a position
to be able to give us those opportunities as well and chloe you started the female athlete
project i understand again your brothers were in your corner back in 2020 and and the aim as i said
the intro to shine a light on female athletes not getting enough courage you've done an
incredible job for women in sport and the platform's so prolific now what's the ultimate
aim for the female athlete project for you yeah it's a question i often sit back and think about
quite frequently because it's kind of one of those things where the amount of growth we've seen
particularly in our social media channels has been awesome and we do our podcasts and as i said
through that i've been able to release these books i feel like there's lots of different avenues that
we could take it but i think
one of the biggest things for me is this idea of the power of sport in australian culture
and its ability to shape attitudes and behaviors more broadly and i think it's such an incredible
opportunity to be able to use this platform to show women existing in environments where they
haven't in the past and not only existing but thriving and performing and competing at the
highest level and i think that's got this incredible ability to not only trickle
down to the grassroots level for young girls to see their idols and then want to participate and
play which i think is an amazing thing but i i do genuinely believe in what we're doing being able to
show people that women deserve equal opportunity across the park not just in the sporting field
in in all areas of life again it's an incredible impact that you've had in in your mission to shine
that light and and as you said it's it's filtering across sport and having an impact everywhere have
you always felt like you were a part of the sport and you're a part of the sport and you're a part of the
like you're a leader in that sense from a young age it's it's a role that you seem to play really
well yeah it's an interesting one i think i didn't know that this is where i would end up i i think
there's a number of things that have probably happened to me as a female athlete which i think
would be a common experience for a lot of women in sport that started to make me understand that
we weren't playing on an even playing field but one of the key moments that really i feel like
changed the course of my life in a way was becoming an ambassador for
our watch which is the organization that does a lot of work in uh the promotion of gender equality
for the prevention of domestic violence and and they link up incredibly in in the sporting context
as well and it was when i went through the training workshop with them that they told me
about how sport could have this power and i think prior to that as an athlete i i recognize the
power of my platform in able to and being able to bring people joy when we win and heartache when
we lose and kind of going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and
along for the journey in that sense right but it was a big moment for me to understand of like wow
I can actually create change I can actually create positive change in the world using the platform
that sport has given me and so I think I then had this passion where I wanted to tell everyone like
I'm really passionate about gender equality but I don't know what to do I want to like do keynotes
and panels and tell everyone why women deserve equal opportunity but I didn't know where to
funnel the energy I thought about doing a course on gender equality at university and then it was
in one of the lockdowns in 2020 that my brother said to me just start just do something just start
the podcast and so that's when we started the female athlete project as a podcast in the garage
of mum and dad's place and we kind of started experimenting just with podcast content on social
media and then we again realized these gaps like I was like where where can I find news
about women's sport like I'd google it I'd search podcast platforms I'd search social
media and I just couldn't consistently find it anywhere and so we started to realize like okay
well let's post the top five moments from women's sport in the weekend and we started to get really
good engagement and the more different types of content we experimented with we realized there
was a real appetite and a real demand for women's sport and to me it was a really unique moment
because it allowed a whole range of different people to get involved they didn't have to
even know the rules half half the people that I chatted to couldn't explain the offside rule
right it's a hard rule to explain anyway you didn't have to know football you didn't have
to understand the rules you didn't have to have this incredible knowledge of every single player
on the Matilda's team but it became this really welcoming environment for people to get on board
in celebrating these incredible athletes I think it made girls and women feel like they could become
part of this sporting environment and I think that was a really cool thing about it and what
we've started to notice with our work at the Female Athlete Project is when they're putting out a lot
of this content people don't necessarily have to be die-hard fans of a particular sport but they
love this idea of women breaking barriers and breaking records and being the first which is a
really cool thing to realize and then Chloe as you know when you do dial in and you want to know more
about Steph Catley and you want to find out about their backgrounds and and you hear their stories
of success and one thing feeds
the other doesn't it it's you might have started with little knowledge but by the end of it it had
us all completely captivated and and and same with your platform I I love it it's just you see these
remarkable women doing things that I've never seen before and you've got so much diversity in
that people can show up doing a range of different things there's been one story that has stood out
I mean you've you've got content everywhere of female that's inspired you of a story that maybe
we don't know so well yeah gosh that's a hard one um one of the
posts that went absolutely viral on our page was a triathlete I think Emma Pallant-Brown's her name
over in the UK and she was running a race and she had kind of like a swimming like a bodysuit type
thing on and she got a period and in the photo it was very clear you could see that she had a period
and there was a comment from one of the coaches who said like who commented towards the organization
that had posted the photo like hey you should crop this photo like it's not appropriate or you should
have asked for her permission or something like that and she ended up reposting or reposting a
reply into the comment saying like this is a completely natural process for women I do not
want it to be cropped I do not want it to be hidden this is this is part of it and I think
we re-shared it and it just went absolutely viral on our page because it was one of those moments
where she could have really quite easily gone down the route of like this is pretty uncomfortable I
don't want this to be seen I don't want this to be a big deal but I think so many women were really
empowered by this idea of her owning it not only owning it but really being able to do it and
really normalizing it and I think that's a big component of what we're trying to do is again
just normalizing a whole range of different barriers that impact women and girls in sport
but also celebrating what they're doing at the same time and and kind of when they're putting
their hand up and and taking courage to sometimes be the first to do things like that what an
amazing story and I'm sure you've got a catalog of so many of them and as you said it's probably
started as sport and it's filtering across to you mentioned our watch and we know the stats
on it and we know the stats on it and we know the stats on it and we know the stats on it and we
that world a horrific and it's national disgrace really but those conversations have been had but
haven't maybe had the impact you're approaching it from such a unique way it's uh again really
inspiring to hear I just quickly got to ask you some questions I want to ask you but you decided
to change to a third code you haven't got an Australian rules background or history what was
the thought there I just saw AFLW on the telly I think this was back in 2017 so we'd come home
from Rio I was still playing sevens and to be honest I don't know I don't know I don't know
I was probably in like career best form in sevens but I just was not enjoying it it was a full-time
job and I just was not getting the fulfillment that I was in the past and so I contemplated
just taking some time away thinking I would return to sevens but I'd seen AFLW on the telly
and something about the storytelling approach that the league took around this idea of these
women who'd wanted to play at that level for generations and hadn't had the chance and now
there were these like these people who had the chance to do it and I think that's a really good
I was like I kind of want to be a part of that like that looks epic and I thought if I combined my
rugby skills and my basketball skills like I felt like the two sports could come together
to hopefully make me an okay footy player it was yeah it was a pretty ambitious goal I didn't even
know the rules of the game it just it wasn't big for me as a kid growing up on the northern beaches
in Sydney and and there's been awesome growth in Aussie rules in New South Wales but but back when
I was a kid I just didn't have any understanding of it I thought they tackled funny because I was
rugby family and I just I didn't get it and so um yeah I I was flown down by Carlton um and
invited to to play VFLW and to learn the game there um with the hopes that if it went well
that I'd be drafted as a rookie um and I ran around like a proper headless chook in those
early days in in VFLW that's for sure but it was kind of hard because particularly being in
Victoria like it's
it's so I don't know so bread and butter for so many footy people that people almost couldn't
explain it to me very well like I'd kind of say like oh I feel like I'm in the wrong spot I think
I should have done this differently but I don't I don't know and and I'd have people say like you
just gotta just gotta read read the game like just feel it I'm like I can't that's what I'm
trying to say to you anyway so I had um I had a couple of great coaches along the way um Steve
Salopec was one of them um he was a line coach at Carlton when I first got there and I just would
follow I was playing on the wing and I just would ask him to kind of like run the pattern so that I
could follow him and kind of get an understanding of where to go and I and I think it was kind of
through doing things like that and working out how to learn the game for someone who had no idea
about it and now once I learned the game I just became obsessed like it's just it's such a good
game right like it's it's a beautiful game and now I just like I love watching it I love playing it
for a lot of probably rugby league and rugby union fans who don't necessarily appreciate the
game of AFL I think it just often comes down to a lack of understanding I think once you get to
know the game it's it's slightly good fun right I concur but one of my uh favorite things to do
is to sit with someone from overseas who's never seen it before and they ask these brilliant
questions and I'm I often haven't got a good answer yeah throw that ball in can someone jump
now and you go no you can't you know but why and I go well you used to be out here but now you can't
like there is it is a strange game in some ways but you're right when you pick up the nuance and
it's so great for the co that I grew up loving to see people like you embrace it and and what that
means for young girls growing up in New South Wales and the potentials off the charts uh Chloe
so it's uh it's awesome to have you in that community you've obviously been able to adapt
to it incredibly well and the Giants are a great story themselves so um fantastic to see you out
there often say this term Chloe success leaves clues
and you've got such a brilliant story I love what you've done as I said in 30 years you've
packed in about three lifetimes worth of achievement self-leadership we think it's
hard to lead someone else without an idea of self-leadership what does that mean to you Chloe
yeah um I think when I look at that for me one of the big things is I have always thought like
when I was younger I always thought that I had to fit in this perfect box of of how to be an elite
athlete and I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't
know I've had battles with with anxiety throughout my career that I've now got strategies to manage
it but I what I found is like I was so hard on myself ticking all these exact boxes and doing
all of these things in the best way possible that I'd almost get more anxious when I wasn't doing it
and what I've come to understand about myself is that I don't have to be this perfect elite
athlete from a textbook and I think that allows me to be kinder to myself as an athlete
but also get the best out of my body and out of my mind and I think by understanding that about
myself it allows me to respect and appreciate that other people that I might be teammates with or that
I might be leading that that's okay that we don't all do it in the exact same way you don't strike
me as someone that would have anxiety you've got such a calm clear presence about you I suppose
sport itself is an anxiety riddled event isn't it performance anxieties everyone's got to deal
with an element of that I don't think it's
it's true and you struggled early but you feel like you just you deal with that better than ever
now yeah it's interesting I think my battles with it have probably been more away from the field and
and dealing with insomnia and anxiety in that respect and there was a period of time where that
did significantly impact my enjoyment with footy but I don't know I've always thrived in the high
high pressure environments like even looking at that that Rio 2016
gold medal like I was the kicker in our team like in sevens you convert from a drop kick
to get the extra two points and I was the kicker and I just absolutely thrived in that environment
so I don't think it's something that has impacted me from a performance perspective but I think it's
something that can potentially have impacted my enjoyment of the game if that makes sense but I
think it's been a huge amount of work that I've done with with psychologists over a number of
years to really implement different strategies to allow me to actually kind of switch off and
enjoy the ride rather than it being something that feels really like a chore.
Chloe we see people who have success like yours are really conscious now how they positively
impact others in their environment on a daily basis how do you go about doing that?
I am not someone like in front of a group who's going to be like the real hype person and be like
up and about and necessarily deliver this really powerful speech I think I'm someone who
will always try and lead by my actions and by my behavior but I think
a big thing for me is that I'm not someone who's going to be like I'm not going to be like I'm not
just trying to develop really good positive relationships with people I think in a team
environment in a list of 30 or whatever sport size you're playing in it's it's hard to have a really
great relationship with everyone but I think for me it's about just trying to commit to what is
is reasonable within your own limits as well and and not feeling like a shit person if you can't
be best friends with every single person in the team you know like I think it's it's just accepting
this is this is my strength and this is how I'm actually going to implement that within my own
capacity in a way. Yeah what a what a brilliant answer creating and sharing a vision is a
dimension of leadership I love asking you about and the female athlete project is an incredible
vision how how have you gone about creating that and then sharing it with others?
It's quite funny like we're running a business because I'm an athlete and a qualified physio
like I have no background in this area I don't have any media qualifications or anything like that
so the creation of this vision has been one that continues to evolve and one where I constantly
feel like I have no idea what I'm doing and I feel like most days I'm thrown in the deep end
which again I love like it's the coolest thing ever just to be in these positions where every
day I'm learning something new and getting better at something that I thought I previously sucked at
yeah I've just really embraced the power of bringing other people on board who have
great skill sets to complement what I can do.
Um it's been an awesome process of having weirdly people around me who have the right skill sets like
with with family and close friends which in business is tricky sometimes having having
people like that around you because there are sometimes blurred lines around expectations
right of like if it's my younger brother producing my podcast and he misses the deadline
he can kind of be like well bad luck you sent your part to me later whatever right like it's it
can get complicated in that way but I think it's been a an amazing experience to bring
other people's skill sets and opinions and experience on board to create a bigger product
that we can then share with more people. Thoughts on curiosity we see a lot of people who have the
success that you've had and lead the way you do they are really curious types of people and they
constantly approach their learning and development through curiosity does that ring true for you?
Definitely I think um one of the biggest things for me I think across like the fact that I've
played across three different sports there was part of me that almost doubted how it would be
perceived in a way you know like my idols were Anna Mears and Lauren Jackson and athletes like
that who'd had this like great longevity across their careers and who persevered and persisted
through the hardships and so I kind of felt like oh gosh if I change sports another time
am I going to just be perceived as someone who just doesn't know how to do it.
doesn't persevere but what I came to realize is like it's actually okay to do that it's okay to
say hey I'm not enjoying this and I want to try something else and I was really curious to discover
what I was capable of and I really felt like I backed myself in I'm I'm very stubborn in the
sense that I hate not being good at things so I just knew that I could I could back myself in
knowing that like even if I wasn't good at things I could back myself in knowing that I could back
even if I wasn't good at things I could back myself in knowing that like even if I wasn't good
at the beginning I knew that I would hate not being good at it and that I'd keep working until
I was good at it. Which is amazing and you know the probability for changing codes is just so
to be successful at it that's why it's such an elite club that you you know Michael Jordan
went to baseball and and and hit the wall there with with quite incredible success I think that's
gets overlooked but even the all-time greats in sport who were great at so many sports growing up
and so what what you've been able to do is you know you've been able to do a lot of things
is uh isn't a remarkable story that clearly you should be incredibly proud of communicating with
clarity is another dimension of leadership we're pretty passionate about Chloe and and that is your
business isn't it you do that incredibly well with the female athlete project have you gone about
that strategy of communication? Yeah I think for us at at TFAT we again touching on that idea of
knowing that our audience aren't necessarily these sport obsessed fans some of them definitely are
for a range of different sports but we've just wanted to make sure that our messaging is about
celebrating these incredible athletes I think with the area that we work in we could probably go down
one of two avenues we could go down that that uplifting and celebrating route or we could go
down calling out inequities and and saying this is not good enough and and don't get me wrong we
definitely do that when the time is right and when it's necessary but 90 plus percent of the time
we've we've been really clear on the fact that what we want to do is we want to do it in a way that's
is use it to lift people up we often um Bez who I co-host our weekly podcast with we often use the
phrase a rising tide lifts all boats and this idea that we all want to be in this together and I think
it's this beautiful thing about women's sport is that it's very much a place of recognizing and
celebrating and lifting each other up rather than tearing each other down. It's an interesting
discussion Chloe and I wanted to just divert there for a moment have you ever had a moment
on the calling out of the women's sport? I've had a moment on the calling out of the women's sport
about inequalities and and naming something that you see is wrong have you ever had a moment we
thought geez we jumped in a bit hard there and maybe we got that wrong or have you always felt
considered enough that you've got it right? It's a really tricky one and it's always fun for the
anxiety when you're calling things out right because it's just particularly on social media
because you never really know where it could go. The Basil Zemplis example recently was quite an
interesting one I don't know if you saw it where he was at the press conference and there was a
snippet taken of him talking about the tennis and he was talking about the tennis and he was talking
about the tennis and he said what was perceived was that he compared the women's final of the
Australian Open to the reserves game but it wasn't released as a broader video so we we released what
had come out just that first video that's all we saw we released it without any opinion we wanted
to make sure we're just putting the news and information up there it went out of control and
then we released his statement when it came out saying it was completely taken out of context
we released the statement of the
journalist but we had people messaging us saying this is incredibly poor reporting it's been taken
out of context you're not covering the full story but social media is hard right because we had
covered the full story but the algorithm if people only get fed the real they only see the real of
that short video it was very anxiety inducing we ended up taking the video down because it was
something where it was like we want to make sure that we're just putting information up there that
doesn't potentially get us in trouble as well right because we've got to monitor comment sections and
things like that so that's probably an example of when things do go viral it's hard to keep up
yes I did see that story and I and and worked with Basil for a number of years and and you're right
it's nuanced isn't it it's and I often you know had this conversation with someone you know as a
white male turning 49 this year growing up and and I love what AFLW's brought to our community
you know and I look back at my...
sister and i think god how ridiculous that you didn't have a pathway at that age and
how sad really for a range of different reasons but i also know i don't understand the nuance of
aflw quite and you get nervous around weighing in on something that you maybe don't get the
language right and it's an anxiety riddle thing the other way too because you feel like you could
inadvertently say something that you don't mean to and and get taken out of context do you have
that sort of sense as well or is it a bit like grow up guys get on with it and learn better and
and get it right i mean is there some leeway there or how do you feel about that one of the lessons
that i learned during my time when i had some exposure with the hour watch work a lesson that
i learned from one of the incredible women in that space was this idea of when they go into
corporate offices and work with men in c-suite roles to work with them on gender equality if
you come in and you say this is how it is this is how it should be done and i think that's a
no questions can be asked there's no space for learning it doesn't necessarily allow them the
room to ask questions and to learn and so that's something i've always taken away from it is
as long as someone is willing to learn and have an open conversation about it then i'm
willing to have that conversation with them to teach them like something like that
compared to some of the blokes we get in the comments who just come in with the purely with
the goal of degrading women and making sexualized comments and things like that so i think
that's at very opposite ends of the spectrum yeah i think having people weigh in on the game
is important right like i know elise perry is a cricketer and elisa healy have been really vocal
in the past about women's cricket and they want to be analyzed and they want to be scrutinized
for their performance because to them that's how the game progresses that's how it gets better
that's where for them they feel like they can be more on par with the men's cricket
and i think it's a really great point and i know
there's been hesitation from some people around aflw making comments on it and i think the biggest
thing for me is if you're going to come along as an expert who knows what you're talking about
you can comment and you can analyze the game as long as you're commenting and analyzing the game
from a perspective that's about football and not about gender to me that's what matters if you're
coming in and you're saying oh she can't kick it far she's not good because she's a girl that's
very different compared to coming in and saying oh she's not good because she's a girl that's
going insane she didn't make she didn't kick this goal because i don't know she went she swung
around her body or her hips weren't square you know you know what i'm trying to get at yeah no
absolutely i think it's it's a good conversation to have and i think the lines are really clear i
think it's just that the cancel culture world that creates a nervousness around getting you know
someone's you know description wrong or however it might be but i think you're right on the clear
lines isn't it if you and that is the brilliance what you need because i look at the trajectory of
and i think it's remarkable but remarkable the level it's being played at you know in its infancy
and and still girls coming through that have not had the pathway from you know six or seven years
and now you're starting to see that and i love it i'm seeing the standard and you're seeing young
girls the best thing at the junior footy club is just seeing that six-year-olds now i've got a
proper pathway that is the equivalent of any male and i think that's uh where the game is headed in
such a an elite way but it is a it is a good conversation to have with you know
someone like you is it's that that's what you want isn't it you want to have experts come in and
and and analyze it and have their view in the most respectful of ways how important can i ask
is has collaboration been for you chloe and all the that you've achieved yeah collaboration has
been huge and i think it comes back to that idea of putting myself consistently in situations where
i am out of my depth and there's this this quote that i loved about
that the heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of becoming a beginner
again and so let's say it one more time so i can get it clearly yeah the heaviness of being
successful was replaced by the lightness of becoming a beginner again and it was i really
felt that when i got to carlton like we were in sevens we were obviously gold medalists we're on
top of the world and then i got to this brand new sport and yeah i was totally out of my depth but
it really allowed me to take a step back and i was like i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna
and i had to learn a lot of humility right to be constantly putting my hand up and saying i don't
know what i'm doing i need to learn and finding the best people at what they do so that i could
get better and and to me that's what collaboration has looked like throughout my career and clearly
you're good at it to be able to grab people and teach you something and get it so quickly in a
couple of years to go from novice to olympic gold medalist is again a remarkable story chloe who's
been the greatest leader in your life
uh i reckon i'm gonna say my mom she's awesome my mom i've got a really close relationship with
her and and i think she's been a real leader for me because she's changed careers to find what she
loves doing and and i think even though it wasn't necessarily in a sporting context it was a
representation to me that it's okay to to seek out what makes you happy and what makes you fulfilled
rather than just sticking to the status quo
and my mom is also someone who is constantly trying to learn and be better at things like
having hard conversations and and doing online courses and modules and things like that like
she's just so she's always looking for ways to be better in in all aspects of life and i think
it's something that i really admire and i really love about her and nice to be able to call that
out and you know i'm sure uh she'll appreciate that but clearly that's something that's flows
through to you that desire to keep getting better at everything there's so many passions that you've
got talking to you and you've crossed over so many codes and areas the female athlete project but
we're a bit obsessed with collaboration is there someone that you thought god that would be a
person i'd love to collaborate with in the female athlete project or another passion in your life is
there a name that springs to mind i think there's some some incredible platforms overseas doing
amazing work there's there's a platform called together that's been
started by some some huge um athletes over in the u.s like sue bird is one of them the basketballer who
i just think is awesome um so i think i think looking to to platforms like that that are doing
what we're doing on a much bigger scale and with the audience that they have access to in the u.s
is is definitely something i love looking at if you haven't had a look at the female athlete project
get on board and and just type that into whatever format you like it will come up you'll see chloe
and uh you'll soon see chloe and chloe and chloe and chloe and chloe and chloe and chloe and chloe and chloe
and amazing uh flow of content that will inspire you how do we purchase the books chloe before i let
you go uh you can get both of the books on our website the femaleathleteproject.com chloe dolan
it's been a great pleasure to spend some time with you inspiring to see what you've been able to
achieve in such a short space of time and i'm sure the next 30 years is going to be equally
as interesting who knows what you're going to be capable of uh in the future it's a remarkable
story and as i said from the start you should be really proud and thanks for joining me today
me look i really enjoyed the chat thanks for listening to another episode of the empowering
leaders podcast huge thanks as always to our great friends at temper and we encourage you
to check out our leader connect program new episodes are out every wednesday morning at 6 a.m