I'm sure you're going to enjoy this week's guest on the Empowering Leaders podcast.
Fleur McIntyre is the first ever female coach in NBL history to win a championship.
She has helped guide the Sydney Kings to back-to-back championships in her first two years.
Fleur talks about the life-changing call she received from NBA legend Luke Longley.
She also talks about the front row seat she had recently to the debut of Victor Wimbanyana,
the number one NBA draft pick to the San Antonio Spurs.
The 226-centimeter French 19-year-old Fleur was working with the Spurs as a guest coach.
It's an incredible story.
Fleur McIntyre brings an incredible energy to everything she does.
You're going to love this conversation.
And her skill of asking genuine questions and listening deeply is something that I certainly took away from her.
We love the fact that Fleur McIntyre has chosen to be part of our bespoke facilitated leadership program we call Alita Connect.
We bring together diversities.
We ask leaders from different backgrounds to learn, to connect and share.
Fleur's group includes Australian legend of sport Harry Kuehl,
one of the great round ball players in Australian sports history.
Simon Goodwin, legendary AFL player, premiership player on two occasions with the Crows
and now super successful premiership winning coach of the Melbourne Football Club.
Jan Sterling, Australian basketball legend.
And Andrej Borovic, the assistant coach of the Australian cricket team who comes with an outstanding reputation.
You don't have to be a high-profile coach to be part of it.
We love connecting with leaders from education, from small business, from the arts and from different backgrounds.
Please check out Alita Connect at alitacollective.com.
We'd love to take a call and connect with you.
Huge thanks as always to Jason Nicholas and his team from Temper, Australia and New Zealand.
The world's best in betting for enabling us to have conversations with people like Fleur McIntyre.
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And if you choose a Temper mattress, it is a mattress like no other.
It will change your life.
Fleur McIntyre is breaking news.
Breaking new ground for female coaches.
After taking a call from her friend Luke Longley, the Australian Sports Hall of Fame basketball legend
who won three NBA championships alongside Michael Jordan,
encouraging Fleur to take on an assistant coaching role with the Sydney Kings in the NBL.
The Kings have won back-to-back championships in Fleur's first two seasons
and Fleur has an extensive history in the high-performance world,
including her role as Discipline Head of Exercise and Sport Science at the University of Notre Dame in Australia.
She was recently invited by the San...
Antonio Spurs as a guest coach with the Spurs in the Summer League Series.
Fleur, you've got an incredible reputation as a great leader in Australian sport.
It's second to none and I really appreciate you joining me.
It's such an honour to be invited onto the podcast.
Well, how does it feel?
You use the term sort of pioneer and female leadership in sport in Australia.
Is that something that sits comfortably with you?
Because it does feel like you are breaking new ground.
Yeah, look, it's something that I think initially was a little bit confronting,
but I've definitely leaned into that space and I accept the responsibility
and I'm hopeful that it paves the way and at least gives confidence and eyes
for other women to walk into this space,
particularly in coaching roles in professional men's sport.
So I'm fully invested.
I really enjoy, you know, the role now.
It took me a little bit of a while to lean into,
but I'm really happy to do that and hopefully helping women everywhere
move into, you know, other areas of Australian sport.
In history to coach in the NBL here in Australia,
the first to ever win a championship.
Can you tell us about your friend Luke Longley picks up the phone
and has that conversation.
What was that call like and how has that changed your life?
Yeah, it's quite the story.
I get asked about this often.
I was, my former job, I was an associate professor at a university
working in Fremantle in Western Australia and had been there sort of 15 years
heading up different programs, a lecturer, a researcher,
and I had actually taken a voluntary,
I was itching for a bit of a change.
I had the greatest job ever engaging with students and staff on campus.
And I just felt like the time was right for a change.
So took a voluntary redundancy, six months off work.
It was glorious, but I was spending money like no tomorrow and thought,
I really need a job.
And then out of the blue, I got a phone call,
a voice message from Luke Longley asking me to give him a call.
And I'd known Luke through Fremantle and Western Australian basketball,
but I hadn't heard from him.
Hadn't been connected for a few years.
And he'd actually reached out to another friend of mine,
Adam Caporn, who's currently assistant coach for the Australian Boomers and
with the Brooklyn Nets and the NBA.
And sort of Luke had been tasked with finding assistant coaches to shortlist
for the City Kinks and wanted someone different.
Luke tends to look at things a little bit differently.
He sort of had a list of current men in the NBL.
And he said to Adam, I don't want the same old.
I want to go a little bit different, maybe a little bit, try something new.
And Adam said to him, have you called Flo McIntyre?
And if you listen to Adam tell the story, he reckons Luke hung up on him right there
and then, didn't even say goodbye and just made a phone call.
So he rang me and said, what are you doing?
And he said, oh, do you want to apply for a job with the City Kings?
And I'm thinking to myself, what?
You know, I was coaching a semi-professional at that time around my other job, my full-time
And, you know, I applied and went through the process of the interview.
And then nine days later, I think I was offered the job as the assistant coach.
And I was like, what?
I'm going to be assistant coach of the Sydney Kings.
So I packed up my bags and made the move to Sydney to embrace this journey.
What a life-changing moment and the first two years result in two championship wins
and an incredible trajectory.
You mentioned your dream job that you were in, but you're looking for a change.
You've got a background in research on children and adolescents and healthy aging and their
development and where the intersection of mental health and wellbeing sit.
Has that helped you as a coach in your professional role?
The diversity of my background and my experiences, I think has helped me in really good stead
to make the switch over into professional sports and professional coaching.
I think, you know, there's a lot of people in professional sports and professional coaching
that that's all they've ever known and being in that life.
And that's probably a strength of theirs, but I think my diversity of experiences, I
have dealt with so many kids, adolescents, young adults, as they navigate life and deal
with different issues, different circumstances, different contexts, and I think my applicability,
to be able to reach people, to understand people, to engage in people, no matter the
circumstance and no matter what their backgrounds are, has been a real strength of mine in being
able to foster rapport and trust and connection with people.
So I feel like it's been a really positive element to me making the switch over to work
And Fleur, it might be a great lesson to everyone out there who sits on a panel that has got
some sort of say, as Luke Longley with his history to think outside the square, and I
had a similar fortune some time ago, my old club, the Western Bulldogs, asked me to sit
Luke Beveridge ended up being appointed as the coach of the Bulldogs and had enormous
And what people didn't really understand about Luke Beveridge was that he had this breadth
of experience outside of his football expertise, which was enormous.
He worked in the tax office at the ATO in a role where he had 150 people reporting to
He coached amateur levels incredibly successfully from C grade to B grade to A grade.
And you're right.
You only look at one factor, but it's the range of experiences, doesn't it, that help
us whatever our role.
I think you're spot on, and it's the transferability of skills.
And as we flip it, we talk about athletes finishing up in their pro sports life and
moving to the next stage in the next chapter.
And that can be exceptionally daunting for people as they come to the end of their career.
But then we also know they have these unbelievable traits and characteristics and skill sets
that's been honed in a professional sports level that we encourage employers and organizations
to tap into that.
And that athlete mindset and those traits and characteristics, that will see them blossom
So I think both ways, I'm in complete agreement with you that I think if we expand the way
we look at things, we certainly keep things broad and understand that the transferability
And Phileo, I will jump in.
At some stage, I was going to talk to you about Alita Connect, a space we're really
passionate about.
And we're incredibly privileged to have you as part of an Alita Connect program.
I think you summed it up beautifully there in some ways around that cross-pollination
You've jumped into a really fascinating group with some interesting coaches around
Harry Kuehl, one of Australia's greatest ever sportsmen, Simon Goodwin is a legend
as an Australian rules player, an extraordinary successful coach, as a premiership coach in
Melbourne and having great success, Jan Stirling, an Australian basketball legend, Andrej Borovic,
who's got a great reputation with Cricket Australia.
Have you found that space?
We call it Alita Connect, which is exactly that, getting diverse thinking together of
different people from different backgrounds to sort of share and learn.
And how's that been for you?
It's been incredible.
I feel very fortunate and very lucky.
You try not to be overruled walking or clicking online for the first meeting and Harry Kuehl's
in the first meeting and you're like, oh my goodness, try not to fangirl too much.
But it was so amazing, I think, just to connect with all these different people.
And I think people are so willing to be vulnerable and share their stories.
And at times, you tackle some things that you're facing and you realize through shared
So, you know, Goody chiming in and saying, Fleur, I've been through exactly the same
thing in this football context.
So that shared experience, I think, is one of the most powerful things.
And the capacity to connect and be able then to help and offer some solutions.
I say to Matt Wadowitz, obviously, who was our leader through it all, that it's such
almost a therapy session sometimes that you get to go on there and obviously listen.
You learn so much from others.
But there's the opportunity, I think, to say, well, I'm struggling with this and to gain
some advice and insights from these incredible people that work across different professions
and in other sports has been so invaluable to me as I tackle this journey with the City
Kings and in the National Basketball League.
And I know your contribution has been incredibly well received at their private conversations.
But I know you've been an amazing contributor and heard so much about it.
I haven't discussed this, but I have started a group of my own, Fleur, because I've been
talking about it so much.
And Matt, who does a great job for us, has been an amazing contributor and heard so much
And I know you've done a great job facilitating and Stacey Moorlaying, and we've been fortunate
enough to expand our facilitators in this space.
I thought, I'll talk about it all the time, I've got to do it.
And I felt exactly the same with you.
I got on the screen and suddenly a couple of people I'd interviewed on the podcast,
Jeff Harris from Flight Center, and talk about it in some more detail.
Ben Shuri is this incredible legendary chef from Attica and Kate Keenan has got an amazing
story and Mia Basic, and I'll go on at some stage.
But I sat there the same thing and thought, there was a vulnerability and a nervousness,
isn't it, around fronting up and going, what have I got to offer here at day one, which
is probably part of the joy of it once you get through it.
Yeah, it really is.
Just sitting there and I'm thinking to myself, two years ago, how am I sitting in this group?
I often think that to myself at times, it's the pinch me moments that I get to sit here
with Simon Goodwin and Andrej Borovic and they're sharing stories with me how they manage
and lead their programs.
My initial thought is, hey, you know, the first session, what am I doing here?
And then secondly, thank you.
I'm thinking, how lucky am I that I get to have this experience with these people.
I completely appreciate it.
I'm right there with you, Darcy.
And how lucky are they to have your wealth of experience and talk about life-changing
You're fresh back from the San Antonio Spurs Summer League.
You've been invited over there as a guest coach, an incredible story, they've recognized
your talents and I need to go to the legendary already number one draft pick, the 226 centimeter
Frenchman, Victor Wimbanyana, if I get his name right, 19 years of age, number one draft
pick from France.
You turn up at the Summer League and you're there as a coach in his first couple of games.
Tell us about that experience.
It was a circus for want of a better word.
I have never witnessed anything like it in my entire life.
He wasn't with us.
We had a couple of leading games in Sacramento, which he wasn't part of and then met us in
Vegas and played the first two games of Summer League.
Like, Darcy, I'm not kidding, there were people chasing our bus to games, like people
lined up on the streets and this is just Summer League NBA games, there were people hanging
out at the hotel.
Everyone was angling for a photo, a signature, whatever they could.
It was incredible to watch and every seat was filled the opening two nights that he
played at Thomas and Mac Center.
So it was like nothing else I've ever seen in terms of the hype and the star power surrounding
It was incredible.
It was incredible.
It was incredible.
It was incredible.
And he handled it with such grace.
Everyone's asked me what he was like.
He was such a lovely human being and that's sort of, I guess the reputation that the Spurs
have as an organization, that it's culture first and you get good people.
We don't care how talented you are, you've got to be a good person first.
And you could see that the moment you walked in the door in terms of the collaboration
within the staff, but also their players, obviously NBA players are at times put up
on these huge pedestals.
There's a lot of money that is spent.
But the graciousness that Victor handled himself, how he interacted with the staff, the interns,
his teammates was really, really nice to watch.
So I feel again, very, very lucky that I had a front row seat to his first couple of games
and just getting to be in that whole atmosphere was like nothing else I've ever seen.
Oh, what a brilliant experience.
And I have to ask you because I feel like there's this escalation in sport and he may be the
greatest pinnacle we've seen.
age 226 centimeters athletic profile that we've never seen before but literally you know plays
whatever minutes he does in his first game and and finding his feet and the articles that were
written post that were some of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen in my life we heap a level
of pressure on young athletes you see it here in australian rules football which is getting
to the point where i'd call it disgraceful the level of pressure that we put on these first
round picks who are kids they're 19 years of age he was being called a bust it was you know from
30 minutes of summer league game time he came out in game two and shot 27 points and did whatever
he did but i mean you saw that firsthand i mean did that penetrate did that get back through the
through the walls the spurs kept a pretty tight knit around victor the entire time i mean you
can't help what people are posting on twitter and the articles that they're writing but i'm with you
i think it's absolutely ludicrous um the pressure that we put on these kids and particularly in
basketball when you've got a
bigger guy so a guy who plays you know your four five and raw they they take longer to develop
they take longer to develop they're still figuring it out they're a little bit late and he's going to
take some time he's gone from you know he's a 19 year old kid going up against grown men
um so again the physicality the fatigue factor and people are judging him off one game of basketball
that's why those people aren't scouts in leagues there's reasons for that so you know making those
quick judgments there's a reason that you're
not out there identifying talent because you don't make those judgments off a 30 you know a three
minute window and making your pick so yeah for me it was ludicrous when i read that sort of um
that's the things that were being written about him and i'm so pleased in his second game that
he was able to showcase a little bit more about what he's about and he's going to be a slow burn
it's an 82 game season it is going to take its toll on this kid his first season in the nba so
i'm sure the spurs will have lots of strategies in place to protect him
load management how they develop him with a long-term mindset rather than oh we've got to go
out and win the first 28 straight off the bat that's not what they're thinking they know that
it's going to be a process and they're invested in this kid long term yeah what you love about
great organizations they understand it it's the the loud voice now isn't it that takes a bit of
management and i know you'll be too humble to share too much of this but i've got a good source
that tells me the legendary greg popovich one of the great coaches in world sport wandered past
said now you're the person i hear about in australia he's having the biggest impact of
all that that must have been a nice uh little interaction i text our ceo of the kings i text
luke and i was like stick a fork in me i'm done pops just walked past me and he just acknowledged
my role with the sydney kings i'm sure matt nielsen his assistant coach who was heading up
summer league who i know really well i'd sort of said it but yeah i was done i just i was like a
day into that experience and i just said i'm done my life is made that greg bopper
bitch looked me in the eye i knew who i was and gave me a compliment so i'm out it's officially
the pinnacle i don't know if it gets much better if it's all over tomorrow you can die happy uh
flair on the back of that but it's a great thing about great leaders too isn't it flair is that
they take the time and they realize he's as human as you and i are but to acknowledge someone is a
really powerful thing it takes a couple of seconds of his time but it has a big impact doesn't it
when someone takes that time absolutely and we spend a bit of time as you would know one of the
things we talk about is you know connection and collaboration and i think it's the willingness
of people leading organizations to know the people that are in the organization whether they are
interns whether they're working there whether it's your athletes whether it's your players
and i think that capacity to have those conversations and know that you know someone's
name and perhaps a little bit of their story is so important to make people feel connected
and part of something that's bigger than themselves so yeah it meant a lot to me and
it's something that i've noticed with a lot of leaders and i've noticed that a lot of leaders
that i've had the opportunity to be around is the time that they take to understand people and
connect with them as they go along one of those leaders uh the current mbl mvp xavier cooks who's
been a great part of the success story the kings that you have also been enormous contributor to
is it describes you as one of the most influential people in the sport of basketball what has been
the key to you having the impact you've had in such a short space of time look i think the biggest
thing that i've learned from working with people and i love working with people and has been i
actually find it one of my greatest joys to ask that i get the privilege every single day to go
to work and connect with the guys that i get to work with i think the number one thing i get asked
is what's it like being the female walking in and all i can tell you is i walked into the sydney
kings and those guys were incredible the moment i walked in with the door and i love learning about
people i ask a lot of questions i love learning about people's backgrounds and their families so
i think that capacity to connect
and you know i'm really biased saves one of my favorite human beings you know i've had the
privilege of working with him for the last two years but helping zave obviously he's had a lot
of influential people on his journey but uh nothing makes my heart burst with pride than
seeing someone that you care and adore and that you've worked with go on and reach the goals um
that's why we're in this business you know what's your why and helping people achieve their whys and
their goals so i think i think i always know who i am and what my goals are and i think that's what i
values are and i always try to be authentic in my connections and interactions with people it's
never transactional for me i'm there for the purpose of how do i help you how do i learn more
about you and so that for me i think has been the cornerstone of me coming into this um but it's
also who i am and i've stayed true to myself um i'm just trying to be me and i've just shifted
to a different context i'm working in men's pro sport i love it flirt i love the authenticity
that comes out of you and as i said her
so much about you and you you can just see the energy that you would bring every day to whatever
space you are in it would make you smile and i think perhaps again it's another great lesson
isn't it is that the skill sets can look in different ways can't they they don't have to
be what it's been always in the past and you know someone with your background who brings that high
level of empathy and care as you said without transaction is incredibly worthwhile the ups and
downs of team sport and we know now the pressures we just spoke about what the number one draft
he's going to need that sort of empathy around him regularly isn't it do you think there's more
of a role for that in team sport that it can be a bit brutal and clinical sometimes or perhaps
those skills are maybe the most valuable i certainly do and i think that um particularly
in pro sport there is pressure that sits there and you are under a microscope and i think people
tend to talk to us all the time about the highs and the championships but what people don't
understand is that we are with each other six days a week for nine days a week and we're not
months a year so i see these guys and they see me obviously at our best but we also see each other
at our absolute worst and i think it's in those moments knowing that the people that are willing
to stand alongside you to tell you the truth but tell you the truth with a care and an empathy and
knowing that i've got your back no matter what happens i'm going to push you as far as you want
to go i think that's really important and i think there's been a shift particularly from a coaching
and a leadership perspective in where sport is so i think that's really important and i think there's
um you know i've listened to your previous podcast and you've alluded to it a lot you know
it's not so much like when you were playing i know you talk about it a fair bit but no we don't talk
about that and we don't show vulnerability um but if you can't be vulnerable with the people that
care about you and that are going to be with you in the good and the bad then then how can you
progress how can you be at your absolute best and knowing that i can pick myself up tomorrow
and i can face whatever i'm facing and persevere and i'm ready to go again because i've got the
support of my leaders
and my peers through the good and the bad and it is such a healthier space flurries and i love
talking to people like you and understanding the environs now better and the coach that you
coached alongside of chase buford who's got nba royalty as a family behind him he spoke about
you earning trust really quickly and that that was something that he valued uh it must have
been enjoyable to learn from someone with his experience as well it really was um and you know
being around chase and as a result our
his father is the reason that i got to go to summer league you know that that connection with
the spurs um rc spoke to me after game five the championship win versus new zealand and said you
know do you want to come coach this summer um and i was like absolutely i was thinking he was a fair
few beers deep at the time when he when he asked me but i'll take it um so yeah no it was it was
wonderful to learn off chase and i think um you know now we've got a new head coach and i think
just that exposure to different leadership styles and different experiences and again diversity
i think adds on to my current experience and i'm just i feel very very lucky that i've gotten some
insight into the way that different people lead um and the way that they tackle you know the good
the bad adversity how we stretch this out across the season so you know it's been wonderful
it's a fantastic story and not surprised that you're having the success that you are in a range
of different areas i want to ask you these questions i'm really fascinated by your response
to it because it sounds like you've got as good an understanding of yourself as
one that i've spoken to in this format self-leadership is something we discuss as a
really key ingredient without that it's hard to lead others what does self-leadership mean to you
i think the capacity to reflect um and seek feedback on the things that you're doing you
know i'm really lucky that i have luke um who is really willing to give me feedback um he watches
a lot of our training sessions and the way i coach so i'm always seeking you know i have an
idea in my head and i reflect but it's nice to get that feedback and i think that's a really good
way to get that feedback from people that are watching me coach um understanding from the
players the things that they need um and as i keep evolving and growing things that i could
perhaps do better on this leadership journey and things where i'm i'm strong but there's the
capacity for me to grow so the self-leadership for me is obviously looking internally and being
able to reflect but i also seek opinions from people that um you know are important to me
uh so luke and our new coach makhmud like my peers daniel kickett that i get to coach with
their feedback on things that they think i'm doing well and things that i can prove and also
the players that i'm working with so self-leadership for me is taking on some ownership of looking at
yourself um and attempting to grow not just staying you know stationary where you are always
being willing to move forward change things up uh show some initiative innovation and go from there
and often people overlook that don't they you've got a you know friendship with luke longley
uh and an opportunity to to be able to take on board someone who's had a
fairly extensive history in the game that you're uh looking to get the best results you possibly
get do you do that in a formal way or is it informal with luke yeah so interestingly enough
sunday morning luke when luke comes to sydney you know he he shares an apartment apartment with me
and it was sunday morning and we had the day off and he said right i want to have a discussion
about this and i was like oh my god it's a sunday morning like turn it off um but i need that push
here into your soul and drag information out of you which is a special gift i tell him that all the
time um but it's good for me because it causes me to self-reflect and it makes me ask questions of
myself of not just what i'm doing now but what my vision is for the future and where i see this
going so i don't have to have all the answers but he forces me to probe in my own head what that
might look like and if you haven't uh seen luke longley's uh story on australian story go to abc
of the sort of human being luke longley is we all saw him winning nba championships but uh got a
deep understanding of just the big-hearted human being that that he is how do you go about
positively impacting others on a daily basis you come from an academic background where you've got
a huge amount of research really in this space how about practically on a day-to-day basis have
you gone about that so i'm pretty energetic das as you can probably tell from this from this podcast
i think that um you bring in the energy that you put out
i can't ask these guys for positive energy if i'm not i'm not giving the same out so
i pride myself is that um having that impact daily my sort of mantra is be where your feet are so
whatever's going on in my life when i set foot at the kings and i'm with those guys and i'm with
running an individual workout or a team practice i am in that moment in the here and now i'm not
worrying about anything else and that those people that i'm interacting with are my sole focus so
they know that hopefully my authenticity and my
engagement is with them um and so i think again those conversations those little sections i think
are really important in positively impacting people's lives i tend to ask a lot of questions
um i you know you spend so much time with people you know all about their families and you know um
what's going on in their lives so i always make sure that i'm asking those questions and i'm
checking up on them so that they know that you know i'm engaged in their life and they know that
if they've got anything going on i i hope that they know that they can come to me and share so
those are some of the things that i do to positively impact when i first went to the kings
um my morning ritual i'm a huge coffee drinker and there's not a lot of coffee drinkers at the
kings which is most disappointing um but my number one thing was i used to bring in my own coffee i'm
a bit of a coffee snob to the club um and i started my morning ritual with like sean bruce
and angus glover and we'd all have a coffee together that was our connection um sort of
sharing a cup of coffee so i think those little moments aren't so little in the big
scheme of things i think to sit down be in that moment whether it's sharing a cup of coffee or
whatever it is that you're doing there's ways that you can positively impact people's lives
just by sitting there and taking the moment and being present with the people that you're with
be where your feet are i love that it's uh it's a great mantra and a great reminder isn't it to
have your head where you are at the time i mean you you've got an energy that's uh
hard to miss and is that been you from a young age is that something you've had to work on i
do meet people that that's hard you just see them a little more down and their heads dropped is
that something that you've taught yourself or you like this from day one always be like it to be
honest i think as i've gotten older and wiser and more life experience i think you realize that i
think having gratitude um and finding joy in in what you do there's so many things that happen
that are so unfortunate there's so many people struggling with different things so i always try
to you know my values are that i try and find joy in things that i've done and i've done a lot of
i do and i'm always grateful um for the opportunities that i'm presented with for
the people that i get to be surrounded by so i think that underpins my kind of positive energy
and um you know i can't walk out on court and not give these guys the energy that i'm expecting back
from them so for me it's kind of putting it out there and hoping that you know it comes back so
i like to think i've always had it but maybe it's just getting older and wiser and
uh figuring it out as i go along well you're a five-time mvp in your own right you had an
incredible success story in your academic career and then amazing success in this chapter it doesn't
happen by accident i imagine have you gone about creating and sharing your vision for the success
that you've had yeah it's an interesting one i think that it's often hard it's not something
that i think about a lot of the time it's often when you get to go do the podcast and i get to go
out and talk to people and do keynotes that you have the opportunity um so i think understanding
that i do harness a little bit of responsibility
i think to pay it forward so any chance i get to be able to create and see a vision where
i'm empowering other women to feel like this is a space that they can step into whether that's
with confidence or perhaps a vision to our organization or other organizations across the
mbl to perhaps be a little bit more open-minded about the spaces that they're willing to open up
in leadership for women to enter into so that's something i'm really passionate about in terms
of my vision and i think my current role in terms of looking forward to the future of the
organization and i think that's something i'm really passionate about in terms of looking forward to the future of the organization
i'd be lying if i didn't think about what would i look like if i was leading a program so i've had
the privilege of of learning under chase and now makhmud um and i'm taking notes and figuring it
out and watching these two great leaders empower their support staff and their coaching staff and
i think for me that's sort of figuring out in my own head how would that look for me going forward
how would i interact with the organization how am i going to manage my players how does it look
rather than going just the x's and o's in my mind how am i
going to manage my players how does it look rather than going just the x's and o's in my mind how am i
sharing how i want our values to look and as a result impact our organization and community so
that's something i'm still tinkering with in my head but it's an ongoing process
and i love you putting that out there flair and i would love to see that happen and even from
this small interaction with you i've got no doubt that you'll be an extraordinary success so
i can see uh the process is underway and i'll watch on with great interest curiosity is something
matt what do it's and i are a bit obsessed with and we see that so many people are
curious and through that they approach their learning and development through that lens is that
a word that resonates with you curiosity it absolutely does as i've mentioned a couple of
times i love learning about people and i think from my research background uh curiosity underpins
everything in research you're trying to always seek answers and whether that's from reading and
listening uh going and attending different research conferences there is an innate curiosity
to find the solution to things and typically
the solution always shifts you know that's research that's why research changes that's why
you know our ideals and what we know is constantly evolving because people are curious and they're
trying to seek answers um and that sort of innovation is i think incredibly interesting
to me and as a result i'm just naturally curious i i've you know i've said i ask a lot of questions
i think when i get to know people um i want to understand people's why and their backgrounds and
i think having that capacity to engage with people um asking questions
as you get to know them engaging with them i think again builds that trust and rapport so
i'm naturally very curious i i read a lot i'm an absolute nerd like i read every single night
um i listen to a lot of different things i'm always sort of flitting around i'm just so curious
with lots of different angles and avenues so for me curiosity has been such a huge underpinning of
who i am in academia and then transferring through to pro sport and fleur i love that you've mentioned
that a number of times isn't it when you sit down and you're like oh my god i'm so curious and i'm
down with someone they're asking questions and finding out about their family and their
background and what's happening in their life and you know why the same as you everyone has
got an interesting story when you ask the second question or the third question we've all got stuff
going on and you know ultimately we're hardwired to be connected and we're supposed to have those
interactions and you see when they're removed people don't live long lives really when you put
them in isolation but the opportunity's there all the time i feel like we're losing that skill you've
got it you keep mentioning it it's not that you're trying to brag about it's just who you are and i'm
fascinated with that because it's it's a free hit people listening you can actually just sit down and
it doesn't matter who it is it can be a random person you meet it doesn't have to be someone
you've known your whole life and even then you can actually people are married to people they
don't really even ask enough questions sometimes it's it's a strange thing i think isn't it it is
and i think the capacity and what i've learned as i've got older in this sort of leadership space is
leaders aren't always the talkers they're the greatest listeners and i think being able to ask
questions and then actually listen to people's responses is a really important skill um particularly
as you sort of you know just being a good human being but also in the leadership capacity as well
yeah it's great for them you know is it when someone's asking that question because they're
ticking your box and they're not really listening you immediately know it goes straight through to
the keeper and you make a brilliant point there isn't a listening part it's huge communicating
with clarity i can see
he's a great skill of yours have you put some thought into it
i do try to be really direct in terms of how i communicate i also make sure that i'm open
to questions from from athletes and staff as well when i'm explaining something i remember always
growing up but you often had certain leaders that you were too afraid to ask a question to
or if you didn't understand something so that's not who i am i want to make sure that i have open
and honest communication with my athletes and my peers but it also is the other way around
so i'm always trying to be the other way as well that if i haven't been direct or provided clarity
that they feel comfortable enough that they can ask me and seek guidance on something so i do tend
to make sure that i'm directing what i say i definitely am quite conscious of as well my tone
i think at times again i've been in spaces where messages are relayed uh they can be condescending
they can be sarcastic and again i think that falls flat when you're trying to build trust and
rapport with people these are people's careers that we're talking about um and it's high pressure
situations so i think if you're honest and direct people might always not might not always love you
know that they're getting called out of the accountability but i think when it comes from
a place of honesty and care people are very open to it they'd rather that than mixed messages
and creating that mistrust and feeling like they're being attacked if the tone isn't right
in that clarity of the message yeah it's another great lesson uh fleur and i totally respect that
isn't it it's harder sometimes it feels like at the time but people pick up on if you're not really
being transparent isn't it if you've got a reputation for that it just becomes easy isn't
it you go well i'm dealing with fleur i know i'm going to know exactly where i stand at any
given point in time how important has collaboration been for you huge uh particularly working for this
space but i've come from a space as well where you know at the university and working
at the university i have had students to deal with i've got staff i've got collaborators
on research projects so i've come from that real collaboration space i worked at an organization
in the university which was very small so we were so dependent on each other in each department we
knew that we couldn't function in a silo it had to be a collaborative effort if we were ever going
to be successful um in underlying our processes and to achieve the outcomes that we needed um
and i've taken that with me and i think that again walking into the king's
space i remember working in my first day and i just took a deep breath i thought what am i
doing i have no idea how this is going to go um and i've had nothing but collaboration
from the organization i have great relationships with our front office um and then we've got
obviously our performance and our medical staff the players and the coaching staff and
it doesn't work if people aren't willing to work together and listen to each other you know there's
always people that have got to lead each areas but everything falls over if there's not a
willingness to listen to each other to communicate and then where whatever happens whether we're in
an office having a discussion we don't agree at the end of the day we make a decision we walk
out of that office onto the court and we're together we're together in everything whatever
happens i've got my moods back i've got kicks back i've got my players back but you know through the
highs and lows if you're not totally with each other and you can you can disagree um and everyone's
going to have different opinions but at the end of the day it's a willingness to listen and to share
and then ultimately when we walk out on that court as the sydney kings we're one and we're ready to go
that's what great organizations do you sum that up beautifully isn't it it's uh the melting pot of
discussion and debate but ultimately once you do you get on the same page and you win and lose
together and you keep that trust and openness not surprised you're part of an organization that has
had the success it's had in the last couple of years who's been the greatest leader in your life
oh goodness me i should i should be prepared for this question
i've listened to all the other podcasts and here i'm sitting here absolutely stumped i've been
privy to an enormous amount of wonderful leaders um at my university life i was very very lucky in
that i always had female leaders which is very very unusual um our vice chancellor was a leader
my two department heads were were females as well our bc was a female um so they had an enormous
role in shaping me to understand that i could do whatever i wanted to do what i wanted to be as
well so um they had a huge impact on me and i'm very proud of them and i'm very proud of them
um and i think ultimately my parents as well if i come to my family um they've always been so
wonderfully supportive um watching my parents and how they support their kids um their willingness
to always do anything for us you know the people that they look after and love i think has been a
staple in uh the leadership and that i hope to inspire i give that same love forward i had the
experience going for a walk with my wife beck and she said you love asking the questions she started
firing a few of those back at me and i'm like oh my god i'm so proud of you and i'm so proud of you
and i was the same i was like actually it's a lot easier asking someone else than uh than putting
your own uh words to it but uh your answers have been uh absolutely brilliant and full of honesty
as uh as i would have expected uh you said before your greg popovich uh interactions uh that's it
put a fork in you but if you can collaborate with anyone on anything is there another name is there
another uh person that jumps out at you to be honest if i could coach with pop that would be
really interesting the man has
so much experience i would love the opportunity to pick his brain and just be part of his circle
to see how he operates um obviously he has had such a huge part in this spurs culture you know
the spurs are regarded as you know the poster of where people want to be in in the nba so pop is
definitely one i think in the female space again someone that works under pop is becky hammond is
doing amazing things in the wmba she worked for poppers in san antonio spurs as an assistant and
then has gone on to head coach the las vegas aces so i hear incredible things about her capacity and
interactions with players as well so she'd be she'd be someone and i don't have a name but i
think that if i wasn't in sport i'm hugely passionate about social justice issues um so
you know that was my background as well in exercise sport science so if i could work with
people in the space of um you know helping groups that perhaps aren't as privileged and facing
challenges that um that you know we're not going to be able to do that um so i think that's a really
we're not used to and and really helping them working with anyone in that space i think would
be incredibly rewarding and fleur it's an incredible privilege to spend some time with you
and hear your philosophy on life and understand a bit more about you and we're really equally
privileged to have uh you in the space that we're passionate about a leader connect which is getting
people like you together and sharing and learning and doing exactly what you spoke about before and
these sort of bespoke groups and building a community of people that are spreading that
positive energy that you've got
we want more of that in the world and there's a lot of negative stuff going on we need to model
more fleur vacante is my takeaway from today great to meet you thanks for taking the time and
i look forward to the day where you run your own program i'm sure it's just around the corner
thanks so much dallas i really appreciate your time for having me on thank you for listening
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