A lot of what they're good at is knowing what the vision is
and constantly referring back to it, and is this the right path?
Whereas we don't, I think generally, in music, we don't do that.
We're like, far out, man, let's just hang on to the tail of this tiger
and hope for the best.
Andy Kelly is one of Australia's leading music label directors
and managers and is this week's guest on the Empowering Leaders podcast.
Sometimes, often, when people are at the absolute peak
of their, let's call it, externally perceived success,
it's often the peak of their unhappiness and dysfunction.
He talks about guiding Australia's biggest bands
as they rise to the highest of heights.
You've been spending your whole life trying to get to this situation
and then all of a sudden, you know, a band like The Vines, for example,
and it was all brand new to us as managers.
So you've got management trying to work it out really quickly,
trying to help bands that are trying to work it out really quickly.
And the euphoria that fuels the music industry,
the combination of hard work and sheer luck involved in finding success.
Jet come along, young guys who just loved rock and roll,
and then the kismet of Apple launching the first iPod
and that being the song that was used in that ad,
It's like a runaway train because they got exposed to so many people
and it is an incredible song.
Andy is a generous and passionate leader,
intrigued by things in life that make people bigger than themselves.
I would have this feeling when I go for a kick
with a whole bunch of guys every Sunday.
I'll be driving home or I'll be driving there
and it's one of the best parts of the week.
You look around and I've got this thing in my head,
it's like, they don't know.
They don't, no one knows how good this is.
There's only a few of us that know that feeling,
like that meditation, getting lost in something.
People like Andy who inspire the work we do at Alita.
We have genuinely loved having Andy collaborate with us
in our Alita Connect program.
We curate groups of five to six people
around the globe to come together, to learn, to share, and to collaborate.
Head to alitacollective.com.
We would love to chat to you.
Book a discovery call today.
A big thanks as always to Jason Nicholas and his team from Temper Bedding,
the best mattress in the world, NASA approved.
We know great leaders like Andy Kelly value sleep
and investing in a mattress like Temper is a decision you won't regret.
Andy Kelly is one of Australia's most successful record label directors
and entertainment managers.
As the founder and manager of Winterman and Goldstein Management
and Ivy League Records,
he has successfully launched and worked with some of the biggest bands in the world.
Think The Vines, Jet, Empire of the Sun, Paul Dempsey, Youth Group,
The Avalanches, Something for Kate, The Living End, and many, many more.
Andy's lifetime of success in the music industry
has been credited to his ability to write his own rules
and to challenge the existing structures within the industry.
Andy's reputation is enormous.
He was described to me like this,
Andy is a dead set legend, a people person,
thoughtful, curious, and caring.
His two superpowers of his would be his empathy and curiosity.
He understands how to utilize strengths and create a team culture.
Andy, great pleasure to spend some time with you.
Should we just cut it there?
That's good for me.
That's it, we're done.
I also heard you, Andy, described as someone
who'd dive in front of a speeding train to save the bands you represent.
How did you end up being that person?
We know it's an industry that can be pretty cutthroat,
the music industry.
How did you become the person that would throw themselves under a bus?
Oh, that's so kind.
I'm a bit overwhelmed by that description.
It feels a bit much, but hopefully we never have to test it out.
Must remember not to do any bus or train tours from here on.
I think it's just, I really love music
and I really love being close to people who are creative.
And I think, you know,
the reason I'm here is because I'm a musician.
The reason that we get into whatever we're into,
whether it's, you know, like broadcasting, playing football, music,
whatever it is, we want to connect with people.
I mean, it's a really common theme, obviously,
in everything that you talk about here.
I love the connection with people who are creative.
And when we first started managing bands and starting a record label
and all that kind of stuff, and I'll talk about, I say we,
because there was two people that were very,
very pivotal in me being lucky enough to do this.
It was because we just wanted to be close to music somehow, you know,
and we weren't good enough to do it.
You know, there's a great quote somewhere from Morrissey,
who was the singer in the Smiths who said, you know,
the music industry is a miserable place for embittered ex-bass players.
And so many music managers are ex-bass players,
including myself.
Well, but I really love, I really love people.
I mean, sweeping statement, I don't love every person,
but I really love the people that I love and being around.
And I get, we sort of define ourselves by who is around us.
They sort of help us become who we are, our parents, our family,
our friends, and through these really talented people that I get to work with,
helping them connect with other people and strike a chord.
And there's like, that gives great joy to people.
And I'm sorry, this is a long answer.
I will answer your question.
But I was watching Coldplay at Glastonbury this year.
I was just watching the footage and I don't listen to Coldplay every day.
And, and, but I really understand how they kept, like,
I love how they do it.
How they connect.
Like I would challenge anyone to go and see Coldplay and say that wasn't good.
Even if you don't like Coldplay, it's like, it's incredible.
And we were watching, I was watching with my daughter, Evie,
and I was getting really emotional because they were seeing,
and just the joy on the face of the crowd, you know,
and people were crying and they just connected so well.
It was incredible.
And I couldn't, I got started crying and she was like, are you okay?
And I was like, yeah, I just, I'm so overwhelmed by, this is what it's all about.
This is why people make music.
This is what it means to people.
To answer your question.
I think the reason that I want the best for the people we work with is I want everyone
to, to be able to experience those feelings.
It's a great answer.
And you, you mentioned a bassist, a bass guitarist and a couple of indie rock bands.
And, and it was with two of your great mates that you decided to go on this path to be connected.
To these creative people that were colleagues and friends and peers of yours.
That's a great motivation to start something.
But the fact that all those businesses still exist, still exist, that's a great credit to partnerships that.
They don't often turn out that way.
That must make you feel really proud.
Well, look, I don't want to spoil the party, but unfortunately that the partnership doesn't exist anymore.
And that's all part of the journey, but what we can certainly talk about that too, because I think, you know,
there's a lot of things we can learn from, from the, from the experience that you've had with artists.
know those things are important to talk about as well um but in starting it um i would never have
got the opportunity without my two friends one one pete lusty and the other andy castle
and those two guys played in bands and uh really so did i and we just all kicked around together
and all our friends played in bands but they had this idea that they would just start managing
each other's bands and then a couple of friends bands as well and um they came up with this
such a great name it was basically like two guys living in a share house with no money you know
and uh they came up with the name winterman and goldstein management because it just sounded
really important it was so good because it was pre-internet you know pre-email pre-mobiles and
If you wanted a gig, you had to try and catch the person who booked the pub
or try and get, you know, an article in, you know, street press about your band.
And you had to ring up and go, oh, it's Luke Darcy from the Luke Darcy band.
And they'd be like, well, okay, I'm not going to put you through or whatever.
So they come up with this idea that, you know, well, if we come up with this name,
it sounds like you have to question, like, that sounds pretty important.
And it kind of worked.
And so, you know, they'd ring people and go, yeah, it's Pete Lustig from Winterman and Goldstein here.
And, you know, there'd be a pause and they'd go, what's it regarding?
You know, it's, oh, well, it's about, you know, I'll put you through.
But it was also hilarious because it was a complete, it was completely unrealistic.
What a great, great story.
And I think Ivy League Records does that too, doesn't it?
In the same way, it taps into that same, you know, Ivy League's such a great brand, isn't it?
Of the elite, elite.
It's got alumni out of the greatest universities in the world.
And it's like, I'm from Winterman and Goldstein Management representing Ivy League Records.
It's like, I'm talking to Pete Diddy here.
That's extraordinary.
And the reality is it's three idiots in a tiny office, like, smoking cigarettes with one computer, like a Commodore 64.
And so that was really, that was one of the, like, most hilarious and clever things
that they did, you know.
And so that was, that was just an amazing way to start.
And the reality was for like four or five years, we were just managing friends' bands
and trying to get 70 people to go to, you know, the Hopeton Hotel in Sydney on a Tuesday night, you know,
to see a band playing first on support.
So it was, that was almost like half the fun.
And Andy, the reputation, you know, the music industry has a lot of complex characters
and it's often hand to mouth at times.
People are really, you know, they're really, you know, they're really, you know, they're really, you know,
they're really battling it out, as you said, trying to get 70 people to the Hopeton Hotel.
But what have you loved about working with musicians?
You are one yourself.
It's your community.
You've been doing it for more than three decades to work in those challenging environments.
What's been the real driver for you?
I think it always comes back to people.
Musicians, like really, really good ones are just really interesting, unique people.
And I'm not like that.
I like being in proximity to that.
I like seeing people who are just so gifted at something.
You know, it's so crazy to be close to that, to see like how the Avalancers put a track together
or to see how Chris Cheney from The Living End can play the guitar.
It's actually mind blowing.
You know what I mean?
But then these are just like really good people.
I mean, that's not always the case with talented people either.
So, you know, so I'd say we've sifted.
It's been a process of elimination over the years.
But I really love being in proximity to that because it's interesting.
And it's also like other and it's maverick.
There's a maverick spirit to it that I really love.
Like I never, I always felt uncomfortable within traditional structure,
whether it be like working in a restaurant or a bar or an office that wasn't,
that interesting to me.
But you just like you had to do it, of course, you know, all that stuff's important.
But I love the, I guess it comes down to freedom.
And I don't mean freedom to do whatever you want, whenever you want.
Just like a sort of a intellectual freedom and artistic freedom of freedom to express,
for those people to express themselves and put something out into the world
and create a world that people can become a part of.
Like that's the thing.
And those people have that ability to think.
They can produce stuff on a different scale to the rest of us.
And I can't do that, but I can get to stand next to it.
Like you could do it playing football or like when I watch, whether it was you
or whether it was like, whether it's someone now, like being at the football
and watching Patrick Cripps or Toby Green, it's like, how can you do that?
Speaking to you, Andy, you remind me of the great footy coaches that I love now
who've transcended an era where it was all hierarchy.
And it was pretty confronting.
You know, you got personally abused and you either coped or you, or you could,
we laugh about all those stories now, but I think it spawned a generation of people
that was pretty unhelpful.
And, and there was a body count of people.
Do you feel like when you're in the music management game that you are like a,
like a coach, you know, that you're part mentor, part psychologist, part friend,
and a whole range of different things to do that successfully?
Do you, do you feel like that's what you've got to tap into yourself?
Yeah, I think you've,
you've absolutely nailed it.
It's so many things.
It's all those things plus an ability to, which, you know,
you learn along the way, like a sort of a business mind as well.
Like none of those things preclude wanting to be successful in terms of having a long-term career
and hopefully some financial stability.
So it's how you, how you blend all of that.
And it's, it is, yeah, it's probably a little bit like coaching.
it's probably the,
there's all those similarities.
And then probably the one thing that's different about it in terms of like a structure with hierarchical or what's that one called?
You know, the sideways one.
It's a funny business set up because as a manager,
you're not the boss.
Like the artist is the boss.
The artist is employing you to help them do the thing they want to do.
I'm not telling them, okay, here's what you should do.
They're like, it's more like, what do you want to do?
And then trying to, trying to get a sense of what's your actual overall vision, you know, and how,
where do you want it to go?
And how do you want that to look?
And how do you want it to feel?
And how do you want to feel?
And then trying to put together a system or a plan or to help them do that.
And then the weirdest part about it,
is they're employing you often to tell them things they don't want to hear.
That's a strange employment setup.
So, but, you know, I always say to people, artists, you know,
it's my job to tell you things that you don't necessarily want to hear because you'll have a million ideas.
And I mean, you can do whatever you want.
But sort of assume,
assuming that we're involved because of our experience and our way of looking at things to make sure you make the,
as close as the right decision as possible,
rather than based on stuff we know, like, look, if you do that, you can do that.
But we think that's not going to work or that's not going to go how you want it to go for these reasons.
And so, yeah, the coaching part,
is pretty close to that where, isn't it?
Except maybe with coaching in a traditional sense like sport,
I think it's like, well, this is a game plan.
Whereas they're like, what do you want to do?
And you go, well, this is the game plan based on what you said you want to do.
Do you want to do the game plan?
And they can go, no.
And they go, well, more about another game plan.
And Andy, I look as an outsider into the music industry,
these nuclear Liam and Noel Gallagher style bust-ups of these incredibly successful bands
that have got the world in front of them.
And yet they seem to be in turmoil regularly in the music industry.
How is that the case?
And how challenging is that when you've got something as precious as that,
but you just can't get personalities together?
How have you dealt with that?
Yeah, it's a challenge and it's really common.
I think it's a funny thing where often just in my experience,
like you could talk to 10 different managers who would have different ideas about it,
but it's a funny thing where, you know,
how we measure external success is generally things like,
have you done a billion streams?
Have you won awards, you know, ARIA awards?
Or have you had a number one album?
All those kinds of things.
And those things are all really exciting and great.
In my experience,
sometimes, often when people are at the absolute peak of their,
let's call it externally perceived success,
it's often the peak of their unhappiness and dysfunction.
And that can be for a variety of reasons,
but often it's because,
you know, the people involved are really young when they're having that success.
You know, I'd sort of challenge anyone to be 21, 22 with a million dollars in the bank,
having just won a whole bunch of awards and everyone blowing smoke up their ass.
And especially if you're in America, you know, and how you process that.
And often how people process it is they,
yeah, they drink too much and they take a load of drugs
and they surround themselves with people that aren't healthy for them.
And they start getting their feed of what they think is wellbeing from praise,
whether it be through social media,
whether it be, you know, number of streams or sales or ticket sales.
And because, you know, as a performer, you want that love,
you want that affirmation.
And that generally comes through, you know, playing live.
And how many people listen to your music, of course.
And that's kind of what, of course, that's how people get their affirmation.
But then they want more and more and more.
So the way to deal with it, I think, is it's difficult.
And in earlier years, like with bands that we looked after,
like The Vines and Jet, for example, in the early 2000s,
I mean, they were the two bands that allowed us to really have a career in management.
And it was all...
It was all brand new to us as managers.
And we had no idea, well, really,
we had no idea we were just making it up, as were the bands.
And they were relying on us to sort of help them and advise them.
But we had no prior experience of it.
So it's all new to us as well.
So you've got people, management, trying to work it out really quickly,
trying to help bands that are trying to work it out.
And it's quite overwhelming.
And so I would say, you know, in retrospect, we...
Actually, I shouldn't speak for Andy and Pete.
I can speak for myself.
I wasn't equipped.
I was just trying.
But in a lot of cases, one in particular,
I think I enabled...
I think I enabled...
Bad behaviour and bad decisions,
because I thought I was trying to help.
But I was just perpetuating, you know, difficulty by...
Because you feel pressure that people have to stay on the road
or people, you know, have to deliver and do, you know,
10 interviews in a day and stuff.
Because you don't know.
You've been spending your whole life trying to get to this situation.
And then all of a sudden, you know, a band like, you know,
The Vines, for example,
who are a bit of a...
I don't want to give a footnote in musical history now,
but at the time, it was like the only Australian band
that had sort of had international success for quite some time.
That's a slight exaggeration, but, you know,
they were an amazing but dysfunctional band
who went like a rocket, you know, in about 18 months
and then crashed very quickly.
But that rocket ride around the world was so crazy
that in order to keep it going, I think there was ego on my part.
But, you know, well, this is my success as well.
You know, because you're focusing on yourself
as much as you think you're not.
You're kind of starting to build an identity through that.
And then so are those people.
So now, like 20 years down the track,
you approach it completely differently and say,
listen, all that stuff's great.
And that stuff's really important.
But who are you as an artist?
Do you have an identity outside of being so-and-so in this band
So I think the way you try and navigate it now is to say,
Like if this all went away, what's your identity?
You know, and that's a really difficult question to answer
when you're 22, 23.
And it must be, Andy, I can't imagine how intoxicating it would be
to be on stage, to be at Glastonbury.
You just mentioned Coldplay.
You've got everyone, the words that you created in your own office
and are being sung back to you and you've got, you know, 80,000 people.
That adulation must be a drug that is incomparable to anything.
And you look at, you know, the Rolling Stones
and guys are in their 80s.
They're still chasing that.
Paul McCartney's still playing, you know, like from the Beatles.
He's still out there on stage chasing that.
I mean, it must be intoxicating for people to want to keep doing it.
I can't imagine anything more intoxicating, you know,
even just like being close to it.
Like, you know, like we were talking about being close to it before.
That's as close as I'm going to get.
Yeah, it's intoxicating to know the people doing it.
And, you know, the people with self-awareness,
and that's usually people who have been doing it for a long time,
you know, like the Avalanches, you know,
they were playing at Fuji Rock a few years ago,
an amazing festival in Japan, and it was the first time they had.
And people were singing.
It was absolutely rammed, you know, main stage.
And I don't know how many people.
And singing back this song, Since I Left You,
and afterwards, Robbie,
from the band saying that's just he was just thinking about how they put
that song together on a laptop, you know,
when they were 21, 22, and on the dole in Melbourne.
And 20 years later, he's in another country,
and there's thousands of people singing that back.
And really, like, that's almost the amount of time you need to be able
to reflect on that properly.
But how's the, like, you're right.
I mean, how would it make you feel?
Like, incredible.
The needle in a haystack, Andy, of, you know,
you having the Vines and then having Jet and the global success
those two bands have in your early stages,
is there something that sets apart groups like that that go on
and have this meteoric rise?
Is there something tangible you can point to?
Yeah, I've thought about this a lot.
I think if we knew the answer to that question,
we'd have every successful act going around.
But I think it's probably not tangible,
but you could say what I think it is, it's connection.
Like, it's somehow making,
it's something about a song that has an emotional impact on people.
And that is the bit that I just, I have no idea what it is.
I wouldn't have a clue.
You know, the longer we do it, the less I know.
So, all you know is,
you hear a song and you're like, wow, you know, like a demo and you go,
that's incredible, you know.
And so, if you feel it and a few people around you feel it,
you kind of think, well, that could be, that's got to be,
I mean, that's why we started doing it.
It's like, this stuff's great and more people need to hear it.
Nine times out of, well, 99 times out of 100, you're wrong.
You're just wrong.
But no one else does.
And then, yeah, you know, like a song like Since I Left You
or Are You Going To Be My Girl from Jet, it's like, well,
when you hear that demo, you're like, that song's unbelievable.
But there's still no guarantee.
There's so much luck, you know.
Like that song was out for a while and then Andy Castle,
one of the three of us, did a really great job in like really just pushing
so hard with the label, didn't want to make a video,
for that song and he just pushed them and pushed them until they were fine.
Like, okay, you know, and then, you know,
he organised the whole thing pretty much, you know.
I mean, I don't mean to take anything away from the US label.
They did, but also then, you know,
the kismet of Apple launching the first iPod and that being the song
that got chosen to be, you know, when people actually watch TV
and there's a lot of people watching TV and there's a lot of people
and there's no social media and all that stuff for that to be the song.
That was the song that was used in that ad and then boom-ba, you know,
it was like a runaway train because they got exposed to so many people
and it is an incredible song.
It's amazing and it makes you feel amazing and there's so much about it
that it's sort of intangible too.
There's a bit of that.
There's a lot of luck actually, I would say.
So this is a bit of life about timing.
I mean, my mind was going as you're talking to,
the tone's a nice story, busking in Byron Bay with her guitar,
music, Rhett walks past and says, geez, I like that tune
and it becomes literally the song of the world at the time.
I mean, is that the sort of genius of timing meets brilliance and creativity?
Does it need a bit of that magic?
Yeah, yeah, I reckon you're absolutely right there.
It's almost like, you know, there's a circle of fashion
yeah, timing where you could release a song,
you know, if there's a circle of time
and I often thought this about Jet actually.
That first album would be amazing in any era
but had they released it five years earlier,
I don't think it would have happened
because, you know, musical fashion and, you know,
just people were into different stuff at that time
but it sort of came about at a time when bands like The Strokes
and The White Stripes,
and, you know, The Vines were a small part of it
and there's all these really exciting rock bands
that people got really, I guess, you know, people in their 20s,
they'd never experienced that
and they were great songs, you know,
The Strokes put out an incredible album,
White Stripes put out an incredible album,
Hives put out an incredible album,
it becomes this sort of thing
and then Jet come along, you know,
young guys who just loved rock and roll
and grew up on, you know, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones
and ACDC and Kanye West, you know,
you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know,
and they kind of meld it all
with a whole bunch of 20-year-olds
that didn't get to experience that the first time
and it just strikes a chord, you know,
for whatever reason.
So, I think, yeah, had it not come in that precise moment,
it's hard to know whether it would have gone as well
and maybe the same with Tones, you know, like,
if that just happened at a slightly different time,
if she'd written that song at a slightly different time
and, you know, someone hadn't had the faith
in it to push it hard and, you know,
would it have happened?
It's fascinating to me on so many levels.
I know you're a great lover of sport, Andy,
and the crossover between sport and music
and I understand you see sport as a creative pursuit in itself.
Tell us why you love that synergy between those two pursuits.
Well, before I was into, well, sort of at the same time
as I was into music, I grew up in Canberra
and absolutely loved footy, VFL.
And cricket as a kid and, yeah, I was obsessed with it, really.
But I was sort of the lone ranger because at my school,
I was kind of the one kid, oh, there's two of us actually,
that liked footy and it wasn't a very sporty school
or anything like that.
But I just found in Canberra in the 80s,
we had one game a week on Channel 7 and it was usually like,
you know, the big teams were Collingwood, Carlton,
you know, they were the ones that were going well.
I just ended up going for Collingwood
because they're on TV every week
and I loved all those players of that era, you know,
And, yeah, I just became obsessed with it.
Also because it was a little bit far away, I couldn't touch it.
I couldn't go to games, you know.
It was like, it might as well have been Hollywood, you know.
So then when I started playing, not very well, I hasten to add,
there's a real theme going through my pursuits.
It was not really good.
What I loved was the getting, being in the team.
You know, I loved being around those other kids my age
and doing this thing I really loved and the feeling of,
I remember I've been able to put my finger on it only in the last few years.
I would have this feeling and I still have it now when I go for a kick
with a whole bunch of guys every Sunday and girls,
and kids, I'll be driving home or I'll be driving there
and it's one of the best parts of the week to this oval in Marrickville in Sydney
and I have this feeling I drive past people and it's kind of quiet
on a Sunday morning and a few people will be walking around
and you look around and I've got this thing in my head,
it's like, they don't know.
No one knows how good this is.
There's only a few of us that know, like that feeling,
like that meditation, like that getting lost in something,
but being around all these people and we've all got this common thing
and you know, like when you play sport with people at a community level
or like not at an elite level, it's like,
we've been doing it for like five years and you're like,
I don't see no one that guy duds for a job.
When were you duds?
Like, I mean, I do, you know, you're asked,
but there are times when you're like,
but you've got this connection and that was it with sport for me.
Like I had this connection with these kids,
none of whom I went to school with, but a lot of them,
we just had a great connection and got them well
and I loved being a part of that.
And so the music thing for me is similar.
Like all, you know, all the greatest people,
all these great people that I've met and experiences I've got
comes from people and that connection.
So I was really interested in that connection that comes from music
and sport and makes people belong to something bigger than themselves.
And so I've always been very intrigued by it,
but I didn't really know anyone in sport, like not at an elite level.
So I started trying to work out what is similar, what's different.
And I actually got in touch with a great mate of yours, Bob Murphy,
and I didn't know him.
Pretty strange thing to do.
his number from Tim Rogers from UMI because I was like, well,
I know that he really likes, from what I've read and seen,
Bob really likes music.
So anyway, I just, I just, I just sent him a text like, well,
you don't know me, but to his great credit, he gave me a call.
He's probably thinking what is going on here,
but this is when he was playing still.
Anyway, I had this idea that, because I wanted to understand it.
And I, and also in music.
so many of my conversations would start with people like who,
who love footy and you talk about footy for five minutes and then you,
oh yeah, hang on.
And so, yeah, then you talk about the, you know,
can so-and-so, you know, play this show or, you know,
what you talk about the thing.
And then it's like, wow,
like people in music really want to be people in sport and people in sport
really want to be people in music or they want to know each other or they're
interested in each other, you know?
I had this idea that I ran by Francis Leach,
a great broadcaster who,
who knows everything about sport, everything about music,
everything about politics.
Like what a polymath, you know, like what an amazing guy.
And I put it to Bob that I had this idea about having a conversation between a
footballer who loves music and a musician who loves football and having a
conversation about what, what is similar, you know,
what's it like before you go out and play a game?
What's it like before you go out?
You play a show, you know, what are the, what's going through your head?
You know, what drives you?
What motivates you?
What are your fears?
Are they different?
And yeah, Bob was awesome.
He was like, yeah, I'm in.
And I was, I was still, I don't know this guy.
He doesn't know me.
And it was a great leap of faith.
And, and, and the idea was,
so I thought it would be great for Bob to have,
to have a conversation with Paul Kelly,
not the former Swans captain, the musician.
Cause I knew, you know,
Paul loved football and sport and those two knew each other.
So we just did this night at the corner hotel in Melbourne and we kind of
wrote, we didn't write the show, but we had touch points, you know,
like for Francis to guide the conversation.
And it was honestly one of the most enjoyable things I've been involved in to
hear that, but also then to like make friends,
with someone that I didn't know before that, you know, Bob.
And, and then, and then we did one with Richo and Tim Rogers and Dennis
Kometi and Dave Graney, and then one with Darcy Bessio and Tony Armstrong
and Chris Cheney and Jude Bolton and Earthboy, but I only do them
occasionally because like that connection has to be right.
It's not like a club night.
It's not like come and tell some old funny stories about the time that,
you know, someone punched you in the head.
You know, on a windy day with noble, like, it's not that.
It's a bit close to home that unfortunately, Andy, and it's a,
it's a great idea and I love it.
And I often say, you know, Bob Murphy is a great lifelong friend.
That crossover is just, you know,
so many sports people are frustrated musicians and vice versa.
And, you know, Paul Kelly's legendary,
the kick down in Elstenwick to run a best and fairest where no one tackles
and get the musicians.
Together is just pure geniuses.
And I love the crossover of that.
You've been able to bring it to life in a way.
I think everyone's sort of been curious about, and why are we so fascinated
in each other's different worlds, which probably leads into the crossover
with you and I, Andy, and we've been so thrilled to have you in our leader
And it's a bit of that, isn't it?
Having a creative brain like yours that operates in such a unique and
And when you put that together in conversations with people that might
come from a sporting background.
And your collaboration is interesting from high performance at Collingwood
with Jared Wade and TJ Barra from the Milwaukee Bucks.
Alan as a school principal has got a great way of thinking.
Dave Bartlett's a great champion of the diversity world and getting minds
together to sort of connect and share and learn in different ways is something
we've been really passionate about.
And I know the team are just obsessed with having you in the community.
Tell us about why that's been appealing to you.
Yeah, it's been, it's been really,
really fantastic because I think we live in a silo in music, you know,
well, I guess a lot of industries, you know,
we just kind of do our own thing and we don't really get to experience
other industries so much, you know?
So I actually read about your group with Pat Cummins and Marcus Bonson-Pelly,
Rob Sitch, Andy Lee.
I was really interested in that idea.
I was like, oh, and so yeah,
just sort of cold called your partner, Matt.
And I think my interest was, I, I,
I'm aware of, you know, as, as you get older,
you can become more closed off or like in our case,
because we manage a lot of acts that have been going for quite a long time.
Or maybe we've been doing things a certain way.
I don't feel, I mean,
I'm enjoying obviously talking about Jet in the Blind now as a, as,
you know, good stories and things to learn from, but I'm not,
I don't want to live in the past.
I don't want to like, yeah, I want to always, you know,
be trying new things and, and,
and challenging yourself because that's kind of why you get up in the morning
or thinking about new ways of doing things.
So I was really interested in like, wow.
Just throw me in a group with people from these worlds that I don't know
anything about, you know?
like you say to have a school principal in our group,
who's an amazing guy who the stuff he deals with is like,
it's just a great reminder that what we do,
it's just like, it's just entertainment.
Like it's more than that.
It's connection and stuff, but we're not saving lives, you know,
And, and the guys in the sporting world,
what they're dealing with and the personalities and the,
and the structure that they're working within.
the way they think it's so creative, like it's kind of, it's,
it's really amazing.
And Dave in a multicultural area, it's so,
it's so different.
So for what I've got out of it is learning so much about how they go about
And it's very helpful in terms of remembering to ask yourself,
why am I doing this?
Because a lot of what they're good at is knowing what the vision is.
And constantly referring back to it.
And is this the right path?
Whereas we don't, I think generally in music, we don't do that.
We're like far out, man.
Let's just hang onto the tail of this tiger and hope for the best.
And it's just trying to strike a balance between,
because I think what I love about music is it's kind of a maverick
And often I think now where it's getting messed up and I won't,
it would be rude to mention.
And companies that I think are doing that,
but there's companies that are trying to put this structure around something
that grew from being unstructured.
Like the really great stuff that we love grows from culture,
grows from culture, like real people on the street.
So in Australia, to give an example, it's like the big day out.
That's people that like played in bands, managed bands, working.
So why don't we do this?
Let's put this thing on and it grows or like splendor in the grass,
grew from just a crew who started it and Paul Patiko,
these two great minds who just grew up loving music and managing bands and
booking bands and putting on events and stuff.
And it kind of grows and grows and grows, sort of grows like, you know,
all over the place.
And that's, what's great about it.
So I'm always aware of like, I want a sort of,
I want a struck, I want a vision,
but I don't want to make it so rigid that it's, oh, it's this,
you've got to do it this way.
You know what I mean?
So that really long answer, sorry,
but it's like, what's been good for me,
it's just really opened up my mind and it's been exciting to just think about
a whole lot of stuff that I would never have thought about and meet people I
would never would have met, you know, as a result.
It's a brilliant answer, Andy.
I love that about it.
And as I said, having your unique thinking is such a gift to other people as well.
My mind was immediately, as you were talking,
going to the legendary Michael Gudinski, who's a great friend of yours,
bought 50% of your record label.
Mushroom Music is now the entity that holds the great success stories of yours.
I had the great pleasure of meeting Michael, as a lot of people did.
If you're in Melbourne and you are anywhere,
you came across this force of nature and it just made you smile every
If you had an idea or you heard an idea,
the unbridled enthusiasm for that idea is the likes of which I've never met any
other human being.
This is brilliant.
We're going to do this.
Can you share with us sort of what that was like to be around someone like Michael?
I suppose that feels like the organic culture you're talking about that is why
music is so special.
Yes, you're right.
He is the organic culture that it grew from, you know,
like he kind of built the Australian music industry.
From a watermelon stand at Sunbury and went from there.
From putting on dances at the town hall in the late 60s, early 70s.
He, yeah, force of nature is the perfect description.
Like you knew when he was in the room, he was there.
He was definitely there and he, yeah, he was just a unique person who had an ability to
And my perception of him before I met him was like, he's a bit scary, you know?
And then meeting him, it's like, oh, he's, he's the opposite of scary.
It was like to actually like, if you worked for him, maybe at some point he was scary.
I don't know, but, or whether I was just like, just cause he's a big personality, but,
um, he really, the thing that he was really good at, he just, he just had faith in people.
If he, like you said, if he thought you had a good idea or he was excited by something
you worked with, he just made, he just pumped you up to feel like you can do anything, like
just go for it, you know?
Um, and he was also just hilarious.
You know, he was just a hilarious guy who loved having fun and he, that's a real key.
I reckon to his success was, it was fun.
Um, you know, not all the time.
Of course he had plenty of lows, but he was fun to be around and that's what this should
Like we should, we've got to have fun doing this because you know, so much of it isn't
Um, but his thing was like, yeah, go for it.
He, he would, um, trying to think of, this is not actually relatable.
It's not related to his success, but this is to give you an idea of the sort of person
we're working with.
Not your classic CEO.
So here in this office that I'm sitting in, there's a couch over there and, um, it's like
a awesome mid-century parker couch that, uh, a few years ago I got recovered, you know,
at decent expense, little treat and, uh, anyway, so I'm in Sydney, I'm working in the mushroom,
um, building and one, one day he just walks into my office, didn't even know it was in
He comes in, you know, he's like, where are you?
I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
What are you doing here?
He goes, ah, do you want to sit here?
I'm like, yeah, yeah.
And he lies down on the couch, he's lying on the couch, just like talking on the phone
Well, I'll carry on then, you know, and he says, oh, he's just doing all this stuff.
And then he, you know, then he sits up.
Um, we're talking for a while and he's, he's just asking what I'm up to and what's happening.
And this is the great thing about him too, like he's, he's like, how's Jolly, how are
You know, he knows your whole family, you know, what happened with such and such, you
know, unbelievable, unbelievable memory, you know, anyway, we're chatting, he gets
up and then he goes and sits in another chair, I look over at this recently recovered couch
Michael, have you got a pen in your pocket, mate?
And he jumps up and he's like, what?
He's got, he's just laid down on my couch with a Sharpie with no lid on it.
It's scrawled all over the couch.
And I was like, oh my God.
And he's like, he stands up and he's done it on the, on the recently recovered chair
I was like, oh my God.
And he's like shut up.
And then another friend of mine.
Another friend comes to poke his head around the door, he goes, what are you two doing?
And Michael just shuts the door in his face.
And then I get a call and I'm like, all right.
And then I walk off and I come back and I walk back in and he's really happy.
He's like, I've done something I think you might like.
And I go, oh yeah.
He holds up the cushion of the chair and he's done a big, he's drawn a big love heart on
He's like, MG plus AK, forever, love you, mate.
And I'm like, oh my God.
And he's like, oh my God.
And I'm like, oh my God.
And he's like, oh my God.
And I'm like, oh my God.
And he's like, oh my God.
And I just laughed.
I was like, I guess you're all in on this.
But now, I've got that.
And it's the perfect distillation of like, he turned this thing that was pretty annoying
into just this really fun thing, where he said, you know what?
I love you, kind of thing.
And it's just, who can do that?
And that's the whole place was built on that energy.
And yeah, it just made you feel good.
Mick Malloy tells a story of being with him at the Logies.
And I'm sure you could go for an hour here, but I can picture this engrossed in a conversation
with someone with so much intensity, and they're face to face, and talking over the speaker,
and you can just see, he's just, whatever this idea is.
And I'm like, oh my God.
And he's like, oh my God.
And I'm like, oh my God.
And he's like, oh my God.
And I'm like, oh my God.
And he's like, oh my God.
And I'm like, oh my God.
And he's like, oh my God.
And he's like, I'm not looking at the map.
He's like, and I'm just thinking that I don't know what I'm on the planet's top or what
kind of planet I'm on right now.
And then he's completely clueless, literally, and he thinks.
He thinks it's going in that direction.
I don't even know what's going on.
G пос organisationalир.
I don't understand what the hell he's thinking.
He thinks it's an issue.
That's the issue.
That's the best I can find out.
The worst I can find out.
I think, I feel like on this rankings, Jeremy's is like, oh, I really like this thing of
what we're doing.
That's what makes me feel it afterwards.
Does that make sense?
around he's clearly looking for a water and there isn't one so he glances at the the vase as the
centerpiece at the logies out go the flowers and uh and he chugs down the vase water and
puts it back and moves on as if nothing happened at all and um yeah just as you said one of the
unique people of all time and i'm sure you could spend hours talking about it we we love um this
idea and success leaves clues and we love the patterns of that in speaking to someone as
brilliantly creative as you is fascinating to us and uh really curious to get your uh thoughts on
some of this this idea of being able to lead yourself i want to ask you what's what's one
way that you fill up your own cup this idea of self-leadership what what do you do andy to make
you feel better to have the success you have it's a really that's a that's such a good question um
it's a there's a probably a couple of things um
the first is uh please no i i don't mean this in any kind of like you know preachy way or anything
like that so something works for me like i'm not drinking like i stopped drinking a really long
time ago sort of at the height of the jet vines era actually because i was doing it too much um
because i reckon uh it was a little bit of a i was very stressed and i took it too seriously
and working across you know i was living in new york at the time don't get me wrong it's not a
it's like oh you know oh you poor thing uh it was awesome but uh i yeah you're working across
three time zones and you're really invested in this um this this thing and um i guess you feel
under a lot of pressure so i think uh oh and also in rock and roll it's a pretty weird caper where
there's not too many other jobs where every time you finish your job for the day you walk into a
room that's laden with free booze or some form of reward
like oh well done now go and here's all this free alcohol you know like if you're a teacher you
don't walk into the staff room and go there you go it's all laid on knock yourself out you know
so that's a strange that's a strange work environment but um so yeah i just kind of
i stopped drinking i thought i'll just see what this is like no you know no thought of anything
after a month and it was it was it was a bit difficult actually because it's it's a it's a
socialization it's a socialization it's a socialization it's a socialization it's a socialization
it's a socializing thing right you know but when you're at work are you socializing or are you at
work are you at a show what's happening you know um and there's just an expectation more so then
i think than now uh and then after a month i was like well i feel pretty good that's weird i don't
actually feel as anxious about things i feel more level you know and then it just continued um
and that that works for me because i feel very level all the time i don't have a sense of
you know i don't wake up in the morning oh god you know or you know i used to feel what i what you
know i'm sure i'm sure now that we're in a much better world where we can talk about this stuff
i'm absolutely certain that i was suffering from depression and anxiety for most of the vines
and um jets time in the sun that's been really helpful to many i just feel i feel freedom
from it freedom to make choices freedom to not um take on other people's
anxieties as my own um and then like it's i think basics are just really important for me
like self-leadership like um eat well exercise every day and try and get enough sleep and uh
that's it and do those things consistently um do the basics consistently for me makes me feel
really um up to it up for the task and and to
be clear-headed i guess because you know every day you're absorbing you're absorbing people's
anxieties their their difficulties um and and to not spend my free time absorbing too much
like social media tv you know um of course i do you know like of course i'll watch
something or whatever but not too not too much i'm conscious of like i don't need to pick up my phone
instagram every two hours like i'll i'll read the news at the start of the day and the end of the
day i'll make a conscious effort i don't need to know i don't need to know what a local council bus
does going on i don't i don't need to know it's too much information so that's it for me like
pretty straightforward which is sounds easy but in the rock and roll industry that that must have
taken some courage to be able to and the peer pressure must have been enormous as you said
it's an industry where it's the rock and roll lifestyle isn't it
so to be someone that's like i don't need to do that um takes incredible leadership it's a it's a
great story we're really passionate about the impact people are conscious of having on others
and i want to ask you the question is there one piece of leadership advice that you've taken on
board that you share regularly is there something that comes to mind on that front i think it is
i don't know if anyone gave me the advice or it just came over time like well maybe
again it's really simple
luke it's like have fun are you having fun like if you're making music is it fun
are you having fun and always ask yourself why why am i doing this like the whole thing
when we all get caught in the minutiae of what we do every day and we get frustrated and
um i mean of course we're gonna get for it so i'm not saying you know
i'm a buddhist monk you know things annoy me and and stuff but but to just strip it back
just keep it really simple we don't need to over complicate what we're doing you know like if i'm
operating to remove a tumor from someone's brain i suspect that is pretty complicated
but if we're trying to put some music up on a streaming service and sell some tickets
is it fun and why why are we doing it and that's that's it it's brilliant andy uh coming out of
the world of sport it it's exactly the same question isn't it probably what everyone should
ask themselves is why are we doing it and why are we doing it and why are we doing it and why are we
doing it and everything they do isn't it like people we all started playing sport because it
was fun and then people take on all these pressures of performance and and we're going to win or lose
is it going to be stressful what are people going to think and it's just when you zero back out to
play sport for a living is one of the most fun things you could possibly imagine and it's a great
reminder and why am i doing i did it because when i was a kid i loved kicking the ball you know that
was that was it and it gets uh complicated a lot um a lot of our worlds isn't it it's a great
to ask we um you know we see people really conscious about the visions they share and the
way they go about has it been a leader visionary leader that's inspired you and you felt compelled
to follow their vision in your world yeah it's actually my uh i didn't expect to get emotional
there does but um it's the two guys that i i worked with at the start pete lusty and andy castle
so yeah we were friends and they those guys were so driven like unbelievable um without being
hard asses just so driven to do this and i feel like i was a bit of a passenger initially or not
i just didn't back myself i just didn't think that anything in this this kind of sphere or world
was within my reach it was so
out of reach it just it might it might as well have been on mars you know like i used to as a
teenager obsess over like what's it like backstage what is it like to be on a tour bus like what is
it like i just want what's it what is it like inside a recording studio it felt like there's
this wall up with a moat in front of it like how do you get in you know and they were like
let's just get like a a ramming what's that thing called a ramming pole and just smash through the
drawbridge you know um let's just work it out and they sort of had no fear and had a lot of um
self-belief and so for them to it's the way it worked was you know we we were friends and played
in bands and then they said hey we reckon we should start a record label and you should come
and run the record label because i've worked at a record label doing you know primaries
and i was like i actually wouldn't know how to do that like ah yeah we'll work it out don't worry
about it you know and so it was very affirming that they thought that that would work and so
it was being in proximity to them and seeing how they did it you know it was like being um
caught in a rip like i wouldn't advise anyone to actually get caught in a rip but
you know like you the advice is if you're caught in a rip you just don't swim against it go with
it and you'll come out the back of the breakers and then you can just swim back in if you don't
panic so they were like they were the rip and i was like okay um and i i would have a lot of
self-doubt and and because we were um guys in that era you didn't really talk about feelings
and you took a piss out of each other and um but just them including me
was really um generous because maybe i didn't deserve to be included in that vision so i i really
they are the ones who taught me that you know you can you just got to go for it which you know it
took me a long time to to learn that and to go well if you fail yeah of course you're going to
like you're going to fail much more than you're going to succeed but they were really sort of
driven and pushed me to do it and i was like yeah i'm going to do it and i'm going to do it and i'm
pragmatic about it and so no for no real reason other than that's how they were built i think and
you get emotional andy because of how life-changing having people like that in your life is is that
where the emotion comes from yeah there's two reasons it's like unfortunately we don't work
together anymore um pete unfortunately passed away a few years ago and that was very um that
was just so terrible that was just such a awful cataclysmic
situation you know where he got cancer quite quickly and um yeah unfortunately he didn't
get through and then yeah unfortunately you know andy and i i guess didn't didn't see the eye to eye
on a bunch of stuff and i don't think that's i honestly feel like he's he's totally fine within
his rights to feel that and and a lot of the stuff that he felt probably right you know and and
and maybe some of the stuff i felt was right but we just couldn't come to uh you know and we couldn't
get on common ground again and uh but i think you know the the rupture in that was uh was pete
passing away and and and he was a real he was the glue i've never really spoken about this so um
uh well beyond you know uh my own circle and and so um you're a very good interviewer
uh and uh but it feels good to talk about it because i i i although that relationship doesn't
exist now i have such fondness for what it was i don't want to preclude any of the awesome stuff
i'm gonna celebrate that you know i do think i think about it like it was awesome you know
and so that i guess you know even though pete dying was terrible i can't tell you how terrible
it was um well you you know you've been close to people you know we've all experienced grief
and um but the way the greatest gift of that has been like how do i process the grief
um i'll just celebrate him and i'll take it like his spirit was to just
go for it and keep going and and have fun you know he was so fun
geez he was really good fun hilarious hilarious all the time he was always
joking and so and he but he had a very unique manner where like unless you'd known him for
a really long time he didn't know he's kind of joking all the time so he was a unique cat and
i love that too so you know that was that you know from a terrible situation um comes a comes
a positive where i still love doing this and i really value people so much more and i know that
um my joy in the world comes from like how can how can you sort of try and help someone get better
what's a small thing you can do to help someone have a better day it might even be saying like
i love that hoodie it looks awesome on you you know uh just a little thing you've always got
an opportunity to to do it it sounds so funny when it comes out of your mouth it sounds like
you're making it up like i wasn't i i wasn't that person 10 years ago you know but you get older
you get older you get older you get older you get older you get older you get older you get older
and you realize what's it all about it's just about people yeah what a brilliant thing you know
very generous of you to share that they're not easy when those public things happen and your
partnerships change and evolve and you lose a great a great friend but even without knowing
your great friend i can hear his words impact you on the way fun comes up every time that ask you a
question and sounds like you live the values that uh he was able to share with you curiosity is
we use all the time and we we see people like you as infinitely curious have is that curiosity take
you down different rabbit holes and different uh passions from time have you got one you could
share with us yeah well i'm in sports the i guess the obvious one um you know i i love i really love
um i love that my family is really into sport my daughter evie my son jed my wife jolly bulldogs
supporter jolly we've got four different teams in our house which is unbelievably stressful
luke that's an incredible democracy you're running there andy there's there's no democracy in the
darcy household well nor should there nor should there be and i think that's probably you've gone
the right way about it and and especially for the bulldogs for the future you know that's
that's looking very good um uh but yeah so but i coach uh jed's footy team my son who's 13 and uh
that's a like that's a really great um it's so good because you are thinking again you are just
thinking about these other people and these kids who are just like the best bunch of guys
they're they're they're so awesome and you know we're division three under 14s you know we finished
seventh last year we finished third this year and that's all them because you know we just keep
talking about well
what do you want to do what do you want this to look like and they come up with it you know but
they but also they just have a lot of fun they talk about having fun and that being really
important to them and um so we might not be the best team we might have the best skills but like
their togetherness and their selflessness like i learn so much from it i'll get so much out of it
you know that that i think that's just a really good thing outside of
this every day which i also love uh but it feeds back you know like i learned stuff from then
that's like oh actually that's pretty good yeah maybe i could use it here it's pretty pretty
funny you can learn a bunch for a lot from a bunch of third angels but you sure can i i love it i
the joy of um coaching my four and it's the same thing i think you've just given the best
description is that kids get the fun element that's what they play for and they like to win
but a minute afterwards they don't really care do they they they they get at the perspective
immediately and occasionally it's one of my other great hobby horses is the crazy sort of winning
culture parents want around it's if you don't win the under nine premiership where uh it's it's uh
you know sheep stations and people are going mental at junior sports got just listen to the
kids like all they want to do is have some fun like and it's not hard to create that it's um
you know you need more people like you down there uh
doing it for sure um communication something we talk about a lot and
have you got a mantra when it comes to how you communicate in your world
yeah yeah it's it's uh what's the best way to articulate it uh always try and understand like
always just trying to understand where the other person's coming from like what's their motivation
and i won't always get it you know but you know like when something is annoying to you or like
why is this person being so difficult
why won't this person come back look why won't this person come back to me i'm still working
on that one that that was bugging me but but but um yeah it is it is honestly in any conversation
or negotiation or anything to try and understand what's their motivation what do they want what
do they need to get out of this you know where did they come from all that kind of stuff just
always trying to be conscious of um anything you go into any even a conversation like it's
it's a partnership so yeah the communication thing is and yeah look not always perfect
because it's certainly you know don't always get it right no way but um i reckon spend a lot of time
going into conversations not thinking about that and just thinking here's the outcome i want
you see it sometimes when people come to you with a pitch
it's like this would be great for all these reasons you're like well it'd be great for you
but you know so when you're thinking about that stuff like well we want to do this thing you know
we might want to do this tour we might want to do this show we might want to do this we might want
to suggest this event whatever it might be we might want to do this deal what does the other party
what do they want you know what's what's important to them it's a great piece of advice isn't it and i
know it's something i'm trying to get better at all the time isn't it when you hit a roadblock
and you're like that person's incredibly frustrating it's normally something to do with me
it's normally 100 because of me and and when you get better at it you go okay i can have some more
empathy there if i'm actually trying to step in their shoes it's a it's a brilliant piece of
advice um in terms of collaboration how do you go about it and how do you go about it and how do you
go about that i mean it's a it's a world of collaboration is as you said you're in this
unique situation where you're employed by the bands that you represent they effectively are
the decision makers how do you go about sort of empowering people in the world that you operate in
well that's a great question i mean i think i'm still trying to work it out
all these years later um i think it's making them feel like they're in control
not making them feel like they're in control like letting them know
we're here for you we're here to help you it's fine line though and i this is a this is definitely
something that i have not got right over the years it's a very fine line between helping
and enabling you know so it's trying to find the line between trying to trying to just make sure
they've got the confidence in themselves because a lot of people in uh artistic uh and creative
endeavors are a really um unique probably the same in sport um unique combination of uh insecurity
anxiety and self-belief so to try and try and get it more towards the self-belief part without it
becoming delusion you know it's it's a great description isn't it i think a sport's incredibly
insecure business like like music isn't it you you're at the whim of a
coach or change of decision or being selected and you go from supreme self-confidence in your
ability to to being dropped out of the team and feeling like your career's over that could happen
within the space of 24 hours and yeah you're right it's a delicate line between reality and
self-confidence and and that anxiety of wanting to perform is uh is really interesting andy who's
been the greatest leader in your life oh i think uh my family
my mom my dad i got three older brothers uh and and then my family my my wife jolly
my daughter evie and my son jed without ever having those um titles but i really really
looked up to my older brothers growing up they're really into music and um i was really
fascinated by that my parents were just very quietly encouraging
you know they never said you should do this or you should do that it's like you like doing that
yeah go on good stuff you know oh yeah you like playing music yeah that's good you know he wasn't
like overt but just to know that you could do it like yeah let me go and play you can play in a
band that's good you can rehearse in the lounge room like it's not it sounds like pretty low-key
oh this is cool i can do it i'm allowed to do it um and then yeah my uh yeah my own family i think
they just um like you know like with leadership it's not like it it's maybe not what we think
about in terms of like who's the leader you know it's more like um what we're just talking about
they are sort of like yeah you yeah you do that yeah that's great
you know yeah you you've got this company in music that's that's really good you know i want
to coach the footy team yeah cool uh you know it's like it's really it's just like support
so in a way it's not there's no there's no roadblocks there's no questioning of it it's
it's like faith it's like it's like this faith that you're given which is just such a um thing
to be grateful for isn't it like it's people people aren't trying to stand in it never no one
stood in my way and said that's stupid or why would you try that or why don't you try and get
her a normal job or you know my parents must have been like this guy is a bloody disaster
you know because they because dad worked in the public service and mom was a teacher and they came
from like kind of you know mom grew up in south melbourne and you know with
nothing and you know that back you know before south melbourne now
you know we're talking the third we're talking the 30s and then you know dad you know they're
all on scholarships and uni and they worked really hard for their education and then i just like
wasn't that and i just it's they must have been going i think they were relieved when one of our
bands did all right like okay he might be okay but they never said anything and andy they give
that a fancy term now of conscious parenting which would have been double dutch to your parents but
you've summed up really well isn't it it's like we trust you follow what you love we're in your
corner here's the lounge room if you want to get the bass guitar out like that's sort of
unconditional love isn't it and you think of all the pain of the tiger parents these days that i
want my kid to be an engineer i want you to play the piano i'm going to force you to do that no
matter what because that makes me feel good around having a kid who plays an instrument or i'm going
to force you to play sport and i really want you to play professionally because i'm not going to
i wasn't good enough but i'm gonna i'm gonna hammer that and you're gonna feel really shit if
you don't get there and feel good enough and so that that sort of seems where majority of parents
are going so what a gift isn't it when you look back and think you've had parents that were just
in your corner no matter what that may be the greatest gift of all we're a bit obsessed in
elita with this idea of collaboration and what it looks like andy and how it shows up in different
areas you've got to collaborate with some of the most extraordinary creative people in the world
just connect and collaborate with a specific person is there a name that comes to mind
there's so many i was i was thinking about this before we had a chat you know like god how long
how long you got but um i think i would love have loved to be near um some of the really
innovative legendary music managers
of like elliot roberts who managed um i think still manages uh i think he's still alive neil
young um what was that what's that like or paul mcginnis who managed you too um just to see
because it would have been it would have been so different then because talk about making it up as
you went along but yeah so smart you know and dealing with artists that were just like
like on another level like how you how you deal with those with that for such a long period of
time you know john landau who manages bruce springsteen you know um who actually michael
yeah that was it i was always like do you really think i could meet john landau and he's like
never happened but you know that's okay um that was a stupid question really how how what would
be the possible reason you know but worth asking
but you know like we said you know i got to got to spend so much time with michael to be that close
to someone who genuinely was an innovator and a maverick and just a completely unique person that
was that was incredible so in a way i did get to spend time with with someone did to collaborate
with someone who was like that and it's been a great joy to chat to you i've heard so much about
you and and the incredible way that you conduct yourself and all the words ring true about being
really generous and empathetic and someone i opened the interview and said you'd lay down
in traffic for for someone in your corner i get that sense talking to you we've been really
privileged to have you in our leader connect program and thanks for taking the time today
i really enjoyed it oh thanks luke it was really awesome and uh as i said you are a great interviewer
because um yeah and and uh it's great research as well so thank you very much thanks for listening
to another episode of the empowering leaders podcast huge thanks as always to our great
friends at tempter.com
and we encourage you to check out our leader connect program
new episodes are out every wednesday morning at 6 a.m