hey welcome back to ebbs and flows the q and a edition
question number one what's your best advice of dealing with media
someone who's been in media and understands it a lot like how much has
it changed from like 10 years ago when we were playing yeah
and then how would you dive into it now if you had your time over
like what do you mean like what do you mean like so let's start with
journalism first so let's go traditional media
do you think it's best to be yourself off the bat or are you falling into
cliches or what's the best way to deal with media
i think yeah i think just being yourself like
because you were you were kind of always yourself on camera like you didn't try
and be anyone else say anything yeah no i think just being yourself it
just that's who you are um you know i think if you try to be
someone else it just doesn't look right either you
know what i mean um i guess you can you can be serious and
still be yourself or you know give the right answers or whatnot but i think
just being authentic is the best way do you
we should start like we've talked about this like years ago where
you'd love to see players start calling each other out
like remember we should say like imagine if you're like a gun center yeah you're
excited about your matchup coming up yeah do you reckon that would be
accepted or would you love to see it i think yeah i would
i think it's slowly the players are slowly getting their personalities on tv
or you know interviews and it's except like
you know a lot of people starting to accept who they are i think it is
changing a little bit but for me
yeah like just say if you've got two of the best centers in the game coming up and just
having a little dig at each other and maybe taking it serious like i don't know i just
think that would bring a bit more excitement but yeah that's just me personally because
i feel like all the players are interconnected now like we all like we they all know each
other where they're happy to hang out with each other where if they do have a cheeky
little dig online remember it would have been personal back in the day like oh fuck this
saying this about you yeah the trainer would cut out the newspaper article and yeah put
it on your locker like stuff like that yeah i'm gonna just yeah i'd love to see it
yeah it'd be exciting and as a fan you just sit there and go and how good's this matchup you know
you tune in on the weekend we get down to the game um but i i definitely think you know more
personalities the better um a lot about like social media like this is a big part of the game
right now when a lot of players are using their social media for for personal branding blah blah
yeah what's what do you reckon the best practices for these
games that you've seen in the last couple of years
strictly business just business just obviously you can put your day-to-day but just be really
professional on there i think that's where you're going to cop it the most obviously
you've got your foxes and that might criticize you or whatnot but um i think just if you
can keep it strictly business on there keep it professional um that's where a lot of hate's
going to come their way anyway so but if you're putting all the right things up blah blah
blah i think um i think that would probably be the best way i think a good way to sort
of treat social media
is as like a lot of players are influenced by wins and losses so like when when they're winning
they're posting like a lot of things yeah i think it's important as players to like post the
downsides as well and for me um i'll probably go a little bit different to you where i'd like to
like you'd go professional all the time or i can add that human element to it so when people do
start to follow you um they understand like they're a dad as well like i saw chance to go
clockstead they just got pumped but he's still he's still posting about mitchie barnett's 150th
and he posts about his face and he's like i don't know what to do with it i don't know what to do with it
i don't know what to do with it i don't know what to do with it i don't know what to do with it
and his family yeah i think it's important to show all elements of you yeah for me i think
players should just really maximize the leverage while they've got it because you're never going
to get this type of leverage yeah again really really like i remember i left the game and i had
like two and a half thousand followers yeah you should take the piss out of me because i couldn't
do swipe ups we used to drop collections and at the time you needed 10 000 followers to do
swipe ups and he's just like do you want me to do it um but i reckon just maximizing
using it this is probably a better way to use it use it as a tool yeah like use a tool like
we used to use it back in the day for but that's what i mean like strictly business like use the
leverage that you got keep it professional on there but i know like i didn't mean like don't
because i feel like the fans have got a lot of insight of what players do now a lot more now
than they used to i just feel like they just i feel like sometimes it entitles fans to think
they can just write whatever because they've got so much access to them i also heard pt
talking about it on a podcast the other day and he said like 2018 and we were just getting pumped
from everywhere yeah he goes i'll i'll jump online he was the only player getting that
and then he's like oh my missus is getting yeah see i mean that's way too far but when people
are coming at your missus like you know it's just it's gone way too far you know yeah and like race
races obviously yeah yeah but i think um like one thing about social media is like keep something
to yourself too like it might be your family or it might be your partner where that's not always
online yeah i know girls can um like maximize the leverage while they've got it with partners as well
yeah and get like influencer deals and stuff like that as well but i think it's important to have
some aspects of your life behind the scenes that you just keep to yourself 100 well it might even
just be a day where you might just throw your phone away yeah and get it so um media just be
yourself don't call some start calling some of the boys out yeah sure and then social media use it as
well to maximize the leverage where you got it because it's hard to get a couple million people
watching you throughout the week yeah once you finish football yeah 100 yeah use your leverage
in many different ways like be like nice to fans reply to fans when you can networking networking
sponsors that's a big one those big sponsor days where people are walking around and all they want
to do is have a photo of you everyone needs to just go don't talk but i i remember the older
boys saying to us too when we're younger network boys i'm telling you and then you just like nah
nah that's shame and then you'd go to the thing and then you just have all us young boys like oh
the boys there sitting there talking to each other and then you know what you could have spoke out to
a sponsor and had a good relationship over your time at the club and um yeah got some opportunities
once you finish football because once you finish the opportunities are fueling far so yeah those
that phone call that used to get answered in like two rings that that goes to the answering
machine after a while yeah ah player managers what's your best advice with dealing with them
i can only speak for my experience i didn't i had a pretty good relationship with my manager
but it was really only you know around signing time um you get a phone call here and there but
um i think if you can do it yourself do it yourself yeah so it's a i think um once you
get to a certain point in football where like you're in the play top five of your position
or you're in the top like 50 players i don't think you really need one unless you're really
trying to maximize it but um i remember writing this stuff out on social media a while ago
of different ways you can negotiate with player managers so what i'll do if i ran a business i
would like engage someone to look after my contract law so say i'm corey norman i'm playing
good football i'm about to get a new contract i'll go find a contract lawyer if i understood
my value so yeah all right in my opinion i'm worth say 750k yeah so i'd go all right cool
here's a lawyer let's go do the negotiation and then pay that lawyer for their time so their lawyer
is going to give you 500 bucks an hour and he's sitting in there for um say eight hours you're
going to pay him 4k to get that contract done but you're not going to get over in terms
of contract law he's going to read through it he's going to point out anything that's gone
instead of corey norman signing 750k for three years four years and a manager picking up seven
percent of that that's a lot of money it is and just even having that conversation there
or positioning it that way that'll be good another way i'll do it with managers is say
norman's value at the time is 750 i go i'm going to pay you to get this contract done for that time
any money you get over that you can you can get a percentage of percentage of it what would you
give them it's all five to seven yeah five to seven yeah yeah yeah right or that's another
good way yeah or no probably you could probably even give them ten percent because it wouldn't
even matter i think yeah because you perceive your value to be this but if they can get more
so you're paying them for their time to negotiate that contract at the start yeah and then if they
get more they can have it together the it's all like to them they can they can actually talk in
about themselves and then discuss about themselves and of course many of them
would want it done for three years and i think that would be his your best place to write the
with that it's not just a signal there there's a good solution there's trust there's tecnologia
i've never had a contract before so of course i've stayed up the night enough to do that and heart do a lot of Load Hoje free g Instructions
lean on their parents first and like say sometimes and this is just an example of like a lot of their
parents would see the back page of the contract which basically means how much money is on it
and like almost like push you towards that which isn't always the best thing to do no but yeah it
is hard it is hard but i think even just opening up having conversations about this and yeah um
i think eventually there's going to be like a network where young players can go and ask
someone because it's it is like a little bit embarrassing to ask about money things you know
and then especially when you're sitting in the boardroom full of suits yeah exactly and that's
their fucking job that's their bread and butter and they're just like nah or they're grilling you
why do you think this why do you think that why are you entitled to this it'd be pretty um
daunting yeah for sure and i've said and i've said in my boardrooms and i'm quite confident
in a person but like just got chewing up and spat out yeah exactly right but again if your foot
comes back to everything if your foot is doing the talk and then you can just do whatever
i think what another key point is just always remembering that your manager works for you
like you don't you don't work for them and i think a big part of what they do is through
manipulation is try and they try and reverse that back on you and they're like oh like i've done
this for you i've done that for you i think that's a sure sign sure tell sign of like
a bad manager where they try and manipulate you and they do it through wording or or like i got
you this deal like all that sort of stuff like be careful of those things yeah and um one thing
try and he tried to quickly so i'll sit on the table and i signed my contract for penrith because
you know so i need to sign here sign here because oh he tried to quickly slide his contract in at
the end of it he goes oh hey this is my contract too like this is for the deal here and i remember
looking at i was like well how long how many more years did you have with him though yeah i don't
know i can't remember off the time but i remember he goes i think he was trying to he goes oh we've
got this contract for you so yeah here's another it matched the same length see i just would have
yeah sweet yeah you know what i mean like you've got me a deal if i see you later but not even
that if you just put it in front of me i just would have been well bad man uh yeah but i think
that's a lot of players too you know what i mean oh it'd be a majority of them majority yeah sweet
but i'm saying that like um i don't think all player managers are bad uh i think i think you
need them when you're say someone who was like me who was kind of like not a star not even a regular
first grader and there's times where oh
you know what i mean
I got let go from a club after a grand final
where I still had two years left
to one of my Warriors contract.
And I didn't know,
like everyone's sally crap over here was taken up.
So they pitched me to England
and I had like three, four clubs ready over there to go.
And literally two weeks later, I was gone.
So I think that type of mid-tier
or young kid coming through.
How does those private contractors work that out?
If you're like a middle-tier player in and out,
you end up playing 100 or 150, 120 games.
That's the hardest place to be,
like in the middle, I reckon.
How do you go into like a contractor
that doesn't really know about the football world
and go, get me this.
You just have to be super clear.
I think eventually soon something will launch
where there's going to be almost like the RRPA
where boys can go to for advice.
They probably could go to the RRPA for now.
But just having like the understanding
and knowledge of it is going to be important.
Over the next little period.
And like you said,
they're all getting a little bit smarter
with the contract clauses.
So I think the next conversation that needs to be had
is the ones that come around like player management.
Sorry, I lost these notes.
what should be the highest paid position?
Would you rather bet on nine or one?
A nine is massive though.
A nine is massive, man.
I'm just trying to think.
Other than the half,
they're probably the one touching it the most.
They would touch it the most.
Yeah, there you go.
They would touch it the most.
Everything starts with a nine.
So here's a question.
So who's the best fullback in your eyes right now?
Just Reece Welsh, KP?
Would you rather have him or Harry Grant?
One of them two or Harry Grant?
They're so important, man.
They're going around the rack,
fix the markers up,
know when to run.
They're just like,
especially as a half,
if the job inside you is done,
it makes it so much easier when you've got shape.
Everyone's got into the right shoulders.
It normally just unfolds for you.
You know what I mean?
Because they've done the job inside the rack there.
Well, that's Nathan Cleary or Harry Grant?
You have to go Cleary.
I agree with Norms.
I'd probably have a better 80 minute nine.
Because fullback, you can have the ball playing fullback,
but if you don't have the ball playing fullback,
you know, he's just a runner.
It's still just like he's getting his meters.
He's getting you on the front foot.
He's in and around the rack where, again,
the hooker can dictate what he's doing in behind the rack.
So I think, yeah,
I think having a superstar fullback or superstar hooker,
it would be probably, yeah, hooker.
There's people like, let's say like Uppy Coracell,
who's probably a top three hooker,
like what he can do at West Tigers with what they've got.
Where I don't think you could plug like Reece Walsh.
If you took Uppy out and plug Reece Walsh or KP into the Tigers.
He's not having the same effect.
That's a good way to look at it.
Would you rather have four wingers or four centers?
Probably wingers.
Do you say that you're saying the wingers are more important than the center now?
Just saying they can do both jobs where some centers can't catch.
You know what I mean?
So if you've got the wingers, they're all both around the same size now.
I reckon wingers could probably do a center's job better than a center could do a wingers job.
You know what I mean?
Because they get a little bit jittery.
Finish is a massive.
So, yeah, I think, yeah, a winger could do a center's job.
Who's got the best uniform?
Dragons is sick, eh?
I reckon there's five.
Bro, when they've got white boots on at the same time, I reckon their uniform's mad.
I just think because they're like, you know when a team sucks and you're just like, oh,
like the uniforms aren't as cool?
Oh, to be fair, I don't even look at the uniforms, eh?
That doesn't bother me, eh?
Bronx is sick when, like, Reecey wears it.
I was going to say the Bronx, but fuck.
I used to like their old school uniforms, too.
That vintage one they wore the other week was off its head.
Warriors is cool.
Their vintage one, too.
I'm just trying to think.
Titans got the shit in this uniform, eh?
Bro, you know what?
How does not everyone want to move to the GC and make the Titans a gun team?
How have they not been guns since they've come in?
They were good the first few years when they came in, but, like, look at that place.
It's, like, it's heaven up there.
Do you reckon that's the trap?
It's too, like, it's too laid back, eh, to...
You're playing in front of no one every week.
When they went well, when they started going, when was it?
17, they went well?
They were in the final or something like that?
They were getting massive crowds there.
And screaming out for a good team.
It's got all the ingredients.
Do you know who they're going to chase after?
Bo Jerome Hughes.
Apparently, he's looking to get back up to Queensland.
I've seen something on Insta.
Someone was saying on the radio that he wants to go...
But, obviously, Reynolds is leaving as well.
It's like, but I don't think they'll be able to, like...
Romy would be worth close to a million now.
And he's, like, he went to PBC and stuff like that, too.
So, I think he'd be a great marquee signing.
If you're him, are you starting to recruit yourself as well?
Yeah, might as well.
Like, like you said, it's not a tough...
It's like playing at the, like, Roosters.
Obviously, they've got success, money, great coach, good team.
And Manly, like, them three teams should be the least hardest to sell.
It's not like you're going to Canberra or, like, North Queensland.
Right, that's what...
Even New Zealand.
Like, a lot of people get scared to go to New Zealand, even though it's, like, decent over there.
Yeah, if I was him and I was going to the Titans, I'd be going, bruh.
Like, I'd be ringing boys like, let's go.
Let's see if he can get there.
They might have won, like, two of the games this year if he's playing.
Like, because they almost beat Manly and they've been close to a few other games.
They just need a seven.
If you could try places with one NRL player for the day, who would it be and what would you get up to?
I know where your mind's going.
I know where your mind's going.
So, what, I swap with them?
And I'm them for the day?
Are you going Jordan Ricci on a Saturday?
No, no, no, I wouldn't.
That'd be heaps boring.
Just be Ricci and jump in his DM, see what's going around for the day.
I'd probably take a different take on it.
That's very mature of you.
Because that was the...
You're going to get the obvious answer.
Whoever I knew what the obvious answer was there.
What about, like, a player on game day?
I'd love to see, like, maybe...
Maybe Cleary and his, like, his week preparation for what he does for the day.
Or what he does for a game.
I've never even met the bloke, I don't know.
But, like, to be so young...
Basically what you see on TV.
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Just to be, like, see how professional he is.
What he gets up to.
Probably even, like, a cruisy training day.
Where you play, like, edge on edge.
Just to see what it's like to, like, get the ball in your hands and be able to have that type of feet.
You know what I mean?
Or even, like, KP on a summer's day.
No, you know what?
Give me a forward.
Because I'm the biggest cat.
So it'd be nice to be a bit tough and want to get into the...
Want to get into the contact and see how actually hard it is.
You know, one of the top props.
Yeah, it'd be nice to have that...
Bit of oomph behind you, eh?
Yeah, but even, like, knowing you're coming off.
How does that affect you?
Like, I couldn't think of anything worse playing and then coming off.
I'd be like, nah, I'm done.
And then you've got to go back on.
Imagine if you're losing and then you've got to try...
You know what I mean?
It's a different look, you know?
Like, it's a different feel from a halfback to a front rower.
Nah, give me KP in the off-season on a summer's day.
With a bit of touch in the elbow.
That'd be nice, too.
Wake up, swim, coffee, get in the DMs.
I wonder what they look like these days, man.
What do you think of the NRL as a TV product at the moment?
I think it's so good, that's why...
Our attendance sucks?
You've got the best product sitting at home.
Why would you want to go down to the stadium?
Being behind the goalpost.
I think about that, too.
Like, I was thinking of going to a Melbourne Roosters game last Thursday.
But it's like 8 o'clock on the Thursday.
I'm just going...
It's too good at home.
And the good thing about it is, like, all the media around it.
So, like, let's say, like, Levels, Broken Bar.
Actually, I've seen the other day that our crowds are up 20% or something.
Like, Warriors, all their games seem to sell out.
Manly got really good crowds at the moment.
A lot of people take the piss out of the Roosters crowds,
but they actually get really good turnout.
But it's just the stadium's so big.
But their product is getting better, like, on TV.
And I think everything around it.
Like I said, like, Fox Sports do whatever they do.
Like, Blogue Levels.
You couldn't go the other way, too,
because they get all their money from the media side thing,
from the TV rights.
I think a big thing that might happen soon is, like,
gambling laws will come in based around TV.
But all that money will just shift down into podcast land.
Yeah, because I think they're trying to change the laws as it is.
Because it is in your face.
It ain't going to stop shit.
If you want to pun or you want to gamble, you're going to find a way.
But, yeah, like, I think one thing eventually that will happen
is, like, the social media side of it will get better.
And I think NRL will do it better than, like, most clubs.
Like, don't get me wrong.
But I just think that storytelling, documenting,
like I said a couple months ago,
that every team should have, like, a series going throughout the preseason, too.
And if they made six series each.
Like a hard knocks.
Yeah, like a hard knocks.
But it doesn't have to be as detailed as that.
But, like, if each club made a six-part series throughout the offseason
and dropped it day after day,
like, you'd have two and a half weeks to create your next episode.
I think that'll be a cool way to, like, keep building the brand.
And, like, focusing on, like, junior stuff, too.
Like, I wish the high school comp was, like, better televised
and had better storytelling around it.
Like, we say when Kiba come down there and play.
There should be a bit more hype about it.
Like, highlight the kids coming through.
Because we don't really, like, see them through 20s and stuff anymore.
Do they still play games before, like, the cup games?
I actually don't know.
Do you put, like, the kids on before the cup?
And then the first grade, you get a bit of crowds?
Because then if someone's paying, like, 60 bucks for a ticket.
How much is a ticket?
It'd be more than that, wouldn't it?
That's an alright price.
But then take into account, like, getting there, paying for parking.
Wait time, food, drink.
You have six drinks and then mid-drink and you're still paying 10 bucks.
Like, the ticket price is alright.
It's just everything else that comes with it.
If you can drag that out over three games throughout the day and you've got a couple
of kids and you're, like, playing on the hill and stuff like that, it might be worth it.
I think it would be cool.
Can you take food into a stadium?
A little pack lunch, man.
Or the Vegemite sandwiches.
Go house with a bit of chips in it.
Their local team.
Alright, I've got the theory on footy players that, like, what you need to win the comp.
In my opinion, you need, like, a guy.
So, guys like, say, Sam Burgess.
So, when they run out, you're the type of person that you're looking at it.
So, when the game's on the line, you go to him.
You need X Factor, a guy that can score points whenever and no matter how big the stage is.
And you need a guy that's a little bit tapped as well.
So, you look at someone who's, like, a little bit screwed.
Yeah, 100 percent.
And I think this is across all sports, too.
You look at, like, Draymond with Golden State.
But, like, when I look around and this is sort of rolling off like Fisher Harris, like, who's the guy that you look up?
Like, who leads your pack?
Like, that might not always be the leadership guy or the captain next to a C.
But you do need that guy to follow.
Like, how important?
And I don't reckon you always had that in the teams you had.
You had a guy that was, like, you played against next to Mon-Mol.
Who was, like, the tap guy.
But, like, I feel like you need that guy in the middle.
How important is that guy, you reckon?
He just honestly put you on the front foot.
You know what I mean?
Like, and again, he gets the best out of the other boys as well just through his actions.
It's one of those ones.
You know what I mean?
Probably doesn't say much.
But gets you up knowing what he's going to do and just does it.
You know what I mean?
I reckon those types of guys aren't scared to come out the line too.
But it is massive.
Do you reckon you can train a guy to be that guy or does that guy have to be that guy?
You just got to have a bit of kind of about him straight off the bat, you know.
And you can see it, like, you can see when you look through the younger grades or the
guys coming through.
If there's a few bigger boys or a few forwards coming through, you can see which one's got
the dog in him and which ones are, you know, going to, you know, play a good game here
and there and maybe eventually get to where they need to do, like, where they need to
But you can see it straight off the bat.
You know what I mean?
It's like you either got it or you don't.
It's that nature versus nurture.
It's more like nature, isn't it?
I went to the last one, like, tapped.
So, like, I'll give you an example.
Like, say, like, you guys.
Like, when we played you guys, like, because I knew Manu.
I was okay with them.
But you're still fucking scared of them.
You look at someone like Penrith, they've got Liam Martin.
You look at someone like the Roosters, they've got Spencer Linney now, Jared, Victor.
They're probably all a little bit too tapped.
But those guys are important, too, just purely for fair factor, huh?
You get a good half and you got them.
You just go, I'll go tackle him all day.
The half starts to pull back from the line, pull back, play earlier, earlier.
And again, they actually get you hyped as well.
So, they're very important.
So, someone like Reedy, who gets in a bit of a confrontation with Jack Harington, he
goes through, like, you know, I think Jack.
So, what happened there?
What happened there?
So, they both got simpened.
They were a bit of a, like, tussle.
I think Reedy was talking a little bit, too.
And they went down the shed.
Have you not seen the footage?
No, actually, I have seen the footage, but not before it happened.
It's just one of those ones.
So, they got into a bit of a thing like that.
Reedy would have been mouthing off, too.
And that's the thing.
Like, it's, I think, with the new rules.
On the game, where you can't, like, punch or anything, like, everyone can kind of be
tough on the field.
But there's a couple guys that you wouldn't really want to fuck with, eh?
I think, if you want to get rid of that, someone's got to come out and just put a couple on someone's
chin, and then everyone will stop running in.
So, but, yeah, I think it's, even in that, when we were going down the tunnel, like,
when you were saying they were going down the tunnel and that, it looked like Reedy wasn't
Like, he was looking down.
And when he got pushed, he was a bit surprised.
It looked like he was half on his phone, eh?
Like, he didn't even have a phone.
And old mate was, like, laughing, bouncing around.
So, I don't know.
It would have been funny if he just clipped him straight off the bat, eh?
Man, he thought no cameras could see him.
He put one on his chin in the tunnel.
Oh, that would have been crazy, eh?
It did look weird, because he was bouncing around, like, laughing.
Yeah, it looked like he was mucking around.
But then when he pushed him, he looked serious.
It'd be interesting to see what Reedy sees about it.
Thanks for tuning in.
We'll see you guys next time.