Hey guys, welcome back to Ebbs and Flows, where we talk about the highs and lows on and off the field.
Today, joined by Jackson Hastings. What's up, bro?
Hey, bro. Thanks for having me.
I'm going to ask you a tough question straight off the bat.
And whenever I hear Jackson Hastings and when you're coming in today,
I've got a preconceived notion of you, but I've never met you before.
And I'm sure you probably hear this a lot.
And we had something similar with a guy named Salwey before he came to the Penrith Club.
We were like, oh, what's he like? What's he like?
And once he came to the club, we actually really loved him.
I feel like you've got that perception around you. Do you feel that?
Yeah, yeah, I do. It's not really a tough question, bro,
because as you're asking me, I probably felt that walking in too.
I walk into a room full of people wherever I am and I get that straight away.
It's probably been something I've had since I was probably maybe, I reckon, 16,
when I first stepped into a proper team environment that was close to full time.
Don't get me wrong, I haven't done myself many favours over the years.
There's been a few instances where,
I've certainly put myself in a position where I've set myself up to fail
in terms of being a good teammate, member of a locker room, all that sort of stuff.
But there's also been other sides that have been blown way out of proportion
when people actually get to meet me.
And the ones that really do know me on a personal level love me to bits
and I'll do anything for them.
It's the surface relationships that I probably struggle with.
But yeah, I'm working hard on trying to break that too,
because I don't want that to be my legacy or be remembered for.
Because obviously talent's not an issue for you.
And you've always had it.
What do you think that stems from?
Where does that come from?
Yeah, well, the talent part sort of probably,
it got lost in translation a little bit.
I'll probably use that as a bit of a mask, being good at footy as a kid
without making proper relationships.
I've struggled with that.
That's always been something I've struggled with.
I sat with the cooler group at school, the footy boys.
I went to a footy school down in Wollongong.
I was obviously best mates with Jack Bird, Adam Kloon, people like that.
And they were always really close and connected.
But I was sort of just like,
I wasn't present in many conversations.
I sort of just sat there because they were boys I played footy with.
So I probably hid behind my talent and didn't work on relationships.
And then as I got into a first grade system where you have to be close,
you do everything together,
I didn't realize obviously that you spend more time with these people
than what you do with your family and loved ones.
And my relationship skills were never very good.
And from the moment I stepped into first grade,
I was probably on the out of because of that.
People don't realize, like, especially when you go,
and probably when you were coming through too,
and it would have been harder 10 years before,
that once you go into that football environment,
it is almost like high school.
You sort of got to figure out where you fit in.
All the older boys are like,
whatever they do,
like, that's the way you just got to follow.
And when you're a rookie,
sometimes you forget that.
Especially at the club I went into too.
I went into the Roosters with,
they just won the comp.
Obviously Sonny had just arrived the year before.
I was stepping into an environment with people that had been there and done that,
that I respected.
I was a Rooster supporter growing up.
Obviously my old man played for him.
it went completely different.
I would have loved to have been at one club for my whole career.
Obviously that hasn't been the case,
I struggled from the jump as a kid with relationships and it's something that I'm still working on now.
Like I'll see people to help me with that.
And people that have known me since I was 16 and now I can see a massive improvement in that.
I still got a long way to go,
but it's something I want to be remembered for.
Someone that started struggling with relationships with people that has now been able to help young kids and that hopefully can close the gap.
So you're saying that you see people about this?
I'm pretty open with it.
I'm on my own sort of path of my mental health journey at the moment,
which has been pretty cool.
The Knights have been massive.
Adzy O'Brien has been massive for me mate.
Like he's in a lot of coaches always just went like that with me,
put the hand out and pushed me away.
that never really helped me,
but he's gone the complete opposite way.
Madge did it when he was at the Tigers and then Adzy O'Brien did it for me to put his arm around me.
And I think that's helped me not only as a person,
but a footballer.
I had my best year last year,
I reckon by a mile.
Everything that I wanted to be,
hopefully I can continue that this year.
Newcastle obviously had a great year last year.
You were sort of injury sort of put you out a little bit.
What was the vibe like around that place?
you hear about Newcastle and when you're going well,
the town's going well,
you know what I mean?
we haven't got fans.
We've got supporters like die hard,
like true blue supporters that support the club through thick and thin.
Obviously there was a lean patch there where they won three spoons in a row or something like that.
didn't have many great years,
but you can sort of see,
when the town gets behind the club,
which is always that the players feed off that regardless of the score or,
or how we're actually doing on the field.
the sellout crowds towards the back end of the year were unbelievable.
Some of the best crowds are playing in front of,
I was lucky enough to play in England obviously.
And the crowds over there are different in terms of like the chanting and stuff like that.
But the crowds we had at Newcastle,
loyal supporters that turn up in the pouring rain.
We still get 15,000 on a Thursday night.
it's goosebumps kind of stuff,
we didn't play our best in either semi.
we relied on KP brilliance in that first semi and playing for the shoulder and the crowd definitely got us home.
And then we didn't give a great account of ourselves over New Zealand,
which is disappointing,
but we feel like we have a team to go all the way.
And that's certainly the goal this year.
There's obviously expectation on Newcastle.
And I interviewed the Warriors boys last week and you guys are probably on a surprise anymore.
Like people expect things of you guys.
what's that like internal conversations been within the team?
Are you guys leaning towards that pressure or is it as a pressure you guys are feeling?
we do a lot of stuff like every club pressure is a privilege.
I'm sure you would have heard that a million times throughout your career at the all blacks use it as,
And most clubs have probably adopted that.
last year there's always pressure on you to perform as a professional athlete,
but there's certainly more pressure this year.
People expect us to go well,
the town expects us to go well,
but more importantly,
we expect ourselves to go well.
Last year we were learning new systems.
We had a few new coaches.
We obviously had a new spine.
We tried Kalen at six,
didn't quite work out.
Obviously he's had knocks and stuff like that.
We went back to what the team sort of looked like before that Tyson went to six,
I went to seven K went to one and then Phoenix emerges as a brilliant nine.
all of us with that experience are playing together,
playing good footy together,
knowing that our attack works,
there is more pressure on us and teams are going to be coming for us,
but we need to walk towards that and improve and,
and carry that as a bit of a badge of honor.
If a team comes at you and the treat you with respect and thinks you're a good team,
that's a sign you're doing something right.
So we've got to walk towards that for sure.
You talked about him and I know he gets a lot of the headlights,
all the headlines and,
and he deserves them.
we sort of talking about him a little bit off air.
What's he been like this year?
Cause he looks different.
He looks different.
I don't like rapping him too much cause that's all I do.
he looks different this year.
he come back with an edge and a purpose to him.
his daily M speech was pretty harsh when he said,
when he mentioned that he was letting people down.
I don't think he's ever let anyone down.
he's a young kid,
with the world at his feet.
He nearly won a daily M four years ago.
if he didn't hurt his hammy,
he probably would have,
he would be a two time daily M winner.
he's performed at the highest level for Queensland and he
just works hard, man.
I think people see the,
the relaxed side of him on Instagram or walking down the
beach, having a coffee.
He's got his little dog that he takes the park and does all
But he's our hardest trainer by a mile,
fantastic leader.
he's come back with a fresh mindset.
No one can touch him at training.
I know it's only training and it's not full contact and
things like that,
but. Training tries matter, man.
Training tries matter, man.
Training tries matter, man.
Yeah. He's got about,
he's got about 70 of them.
I was just saying to you off air,
you pass him the ball and nothing's on.
And then he just does,
does all this mad shit with his feet and flick passes,
hits the winger, dummies,
goes himself and you sit back and you just,
you're lucky to have him on your team.
So he doesn't rest on his laurels, mate.
He's been brilliant this pre-season.
I think earlier in his career,
you sort of seen him where he'd park up on that left side
of a wide four split and obviously like set up yay,
goosey and just pick the right pass.
Like where do you see the evolution of his game?
Is it more involvement or are you setting up certain plays
Cause you guys have played a year together now.
And obviously people got video, they know what's coming.
Stopping it is a different question,
but is it a little subtleties that you're trying to add
to your guys' connection?
Yeah. Well, he helps me cause I'm slow as anything.
So you just give it to him and he hits the gas
But we definitely put him in positions to succeed.
I won't give too much away cause I don't want people
to know what we're doing,
but there's certainly points on the field that we like
to give K on the ball.
There's no secret.
Yeah. The wide four.
And there's no secret.
Yeah. The wide four.
There's no secret that Kalen likes the left-hand side
of the field, but the evolution of his game
is he's been going a lot more to the right.
I don't know what the stat was,
but we scored a hell of a lot of tries on the right.
Obviously Dom Young got 25 or six, broke the club record.
Yeah, quite a year for them.
But then also Greggy Marzi on the left had 23, I think.
And then both our centers had over 15 tries this.
So I mean, he's swinging both sides of the field.
He's not just parking himself left, right or middle.
He's playing both sides of the ruck.
And yeah, we put him in positions to succeed
and he's done that this preseason.
So hopefully he just carries on where he left off last year
and goes even better.
I kind of like how the game sort of evolve,
like obviously growing up watching football in the 2000s.
And it feels like that at the moment where
like an early ball to the center's classes,
like a good play.
But I feel like the fullbacks are going wider again.
Like KP's playing out wide.
Reece Walsh is playing out wide.
But for a while it was Tommy and Turbo
through that middle third on the field
and get a line break and they push up.
But it's a lot more exciting when it's out wide, isn't it?
Yeah. And I think the different body types,
I don't think you want Kalen and Reece Walsh
to be a battering ram for the middle
and playing too many like ruck plays.
I mean, there's a lot of different body types.
I mean, there's obviously time and place.
If you get late in the half
and there's a middle forward that's blowing
and you want Kalen and Reece certainly up the middle
cause they're so fast.
Whereas Tommy early on in games is so big and robust
that he can bounce off people
and you're not worried about it.
Whereas you don't want to put your marquee fullback
in a position to get injured.
So we'll just park him out wide
and let him run around the three ends.
I know he's torture to defend, as you know,
like when you've got a big back roll,
like Frizz at training and then you got KP in behind,
it's kind of like, I've got to hedge my bets
to be able to get him speed wise.
But if I let Tyson Vazell blow my inside shoulder off,
he's going to score regardless.
So having that problem at the back,
I mean, fullbacks probably,
I mean, I don't want to disrespect any other position,
but arguably the hottest position in the game right now
in every single team, the fullbacks are brilliant.
You look at the top 10 fullbacks
and it's just like, they're all guns.
Yeah, how do you name them?
Like you'd have an argument like top 15
and where you put every fullback in it.
So, I mean, I'm not going to do that
because I don't want to give anyone ammo,
but I mean, I'll do enough of that.
But yeah, no, it's pretty crazy position at the moment.
Obviously Reece took the,
the comp by storm last year with his speed.
And he wasn't just like playing three on twos.
He was getting a three on three
and running around the half and the center
and just playing a two on one with the winger.
Like his speed's different,
but I think Kaelin at full fly,
I'd probably have him, I'm biased,
but I'd have him at one.
Yeah, probably when Reece got named
and like I'm a Reece Welsh fan,
I was still thinking like, nah, KP's that guy.
And obviously Reece proved everyone wrong.
But I feel like to me,
that little Reece getting the Queensland jersey,
he's a good looking dude as well.
Like it's different when Teddy gets the jersey
and KP's like, oh, it is what it is.
But someone who's probably just as cool as KP,
probably a little bit less talented,
just as quick as KP.
I feel like since then, he just sort of switched it on.
I reckon what Billy said,
it's scary as a New South Welshman.
Like if you have them both in the same team
and they do what they did with Cherry those years ago,
where he's put him on through the middle,
just play two fullbacks,
Michael Morgan, Cooper Crong, they've all done it.
So I mean, Queensland seem to get the best out of their team
when they have that guy that can come on
and play multiple positions.
So, I mean, I hope for my friend's sake,
But then as a footy fan,
I love watching Reece Welsh play too.
So I mean, if you have both those guys in the team,
I mean, Madge will have a few sleepless nights,
I think picking people to defend those two.
The other side of the conversation
is obviously got like Tommy Turbo, Teddy.
I don't know it's early to be talking about origin,
but do you still back Teddy to have that role?
Yeah, I'm a massive footy fan
and I don't know Teddy from a borough,
so I've never met him.
Obviously had the pleasure of playing against him,
but he's a champion, bro.
You never write off champions.
And I think having him, Turbo, Luttrell in the team,
I know for the purest,
they want centers in the center position,
but if you've got the three best players
in their position in the comp, arguably in the team,
you just got to pick the best seven in
and then go for there, I reckon.
So I would have all three in
and I'll give Teddy the chance to fall on his sword.
I think he's earned it.
Like his career speaks for itself, so.
I look at Teddy's game and like you said, it's very like,
and you can talk football too.
So when you play for six fours player, he's on the four.
I feel like one thing that's hard to play
with Teddy is like,
you don't know where he's going to end up.
They sort of bounce around.
And like I played a guy named Tyron Peachy
where you just didn't know where he was going to go.
So like a lot of football about momentum cues
and get into points now.
It is hard to play off a little bit.
And he runs low to the ground too.
So if he does take a wide four and he beats the back rower
and he runs towards the half and he dummies
and he bumps you off,
the rest of the line's gone backwards.
So then he just runs right across
the other side of the field.
So the right-hand side of the field needs to move up.
But like he's worked through the middle of the field,
Like he gets kick return,
takes play three,
sometimes takes the last tackle to get him to a good kick.
Then he's on the end of shape.
Like his fitness must be off the charts, bro.
Cause he's always in your face.
When you play the roosters,
like your game plan for him,
obviously you want to put him in positions
where he's uncomfortable,
but he kind of just shrubs on being uncomfortable.
It's kind of weird.
You put him in a corner and you think,
here we go, we'll get down there
and we'll trap him in a corner.
Then he'll do just this mad run
and put them on the front foot.
So he's a champion, bro.
The hands on the head,
and then just takes off.
Like straight up through the middle.
Shorts halfway down his ass
and then just comes up with a 60 meter run or a try.
It's pretty, it's pretty cool, bro.
Yeah, it's like, you know,
where they have Hoodie Mellow, all those guys.
He's like the shirt up, pants down.
Teddy, that's when he's on.
That's iconic, eh?
Who'd you look up to playing as a kid?
Like I watched you play and like very like ball dominant.
You love to touch the ball, move the boys around.
Great tempo to your game.
Is that something you developed
or who'd you love watching growing up?
Yeah, well, believe it or not,
I was actually quite quick as a kid.
I don't think you're slow.
Cause when I picture you getting line breaks,
it's not like people were.
I've got it in my,
I think I've got it in my head that I'm slow.
Like I'm, I was heavy as like when I went to the UK,
I was probably 90.
When I was at Manly, I was probably like 96, 97 kilos.
Middle of my stint in England, I got to like 101.
Then I played at the Tigers and last year.
So you're playing at 101?
Well, I was 102 and a half last year, running around.
Like sometimes I look at photos of me in that white jersey.
I'm like, ooh, I don't know about that.
Then I had surgery obviously again and I got heavy.
Like I got pretty heavy.
I don't know what I got to.
Maybe, and this isn't like bad, bad weight.
I just like, cause I was just leg in the cast,
just upper body weight.
So I got to maybe like 104 and a bit.
And then me and the coach had to have a chat.
Like he was like, bro, you need to drop some weight.
And I'm down to like 98, three now.
So I'm pretty comfortable with that weight.
So yeah, I looked up to Joey,
obviously halfback, night supporter.
Yeah, love what he did for the game
and getting to work with him still like pinch yourself moment
when he comes into training with no shoes on, Sonny.
He's probably had about 15 beers the night before,
the night before, sorry.
he's hitting poles from 40 meters away,
calling himself the eighth.
It's pretty cool.
It is impressive when he jumps on the field
and they can still do what they do at that age.
I think he gets like, we can't do what you can do, bro.
You know what I mean?
Like he can do all this mad stuff still that,
I remember watching a video on origin.
He hit a Torpy and hit the crossbar from 40
and he called it before he did it.
And like just shit like that.
Like I could only dream of doing that,
but I love JT as well.
Like I'm a proud New South Welshman,
but watching JT play like small in stature,
tough as anything, ultimate competitor.
And you try and take parts from all people's games.
But I think the way that he just played his heart
in his sleeve, got the team around.
And yeah, we've got the same manager.
So I've been lucky enough to get to know him a little bit.
I wouldn't say I know him really well,
but had some conversations with him that I hold onto,
but just this competitiveness and toughness
is what I took from him.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Like we were talking about him a couple of podcasts ago
and just leads off effort.
And they're like, wherever the ball is,
like I had a coach say,
he's worth his weight in golden tackle five.
Cause wherever the ball is, he's underneath,
he's doing league tackles.
All that sort of stuff.
Especially the biggest games.
Like he's best games are always in origin.
Like that's what I think, like defining a player is when,
like KP's game three, a couple of years ago
when New South Wales probably should have won.
And he just decided I'm going to be the best player
Moments like that make players.
And I think we just spoke about Teddy.
He's had heaps of them in origin and test matches.
Munster's got that about him too.
Munster's a freak, yeah.
And he's got the rap for being a big game player,
but yeah, blokes like that are just a crazy cherry.
Like when it's golden point,
or you need a big play, you know,
cherry is going to deliver.
Cooper Cronk was like that first.
And then that's why they're the best,
best players in the game.
And so widely respected.
So you had a little stint in England,
obviously picked up Man of Steel.
What was that experience like?
Best four years of my life.
Obviously the years leading up to it weren't,
weren't the best for me personally.
And then I went over there and I was just-
You had a run in of cheers, eh?
Yeah, a little run in.
Cheers to my boy too.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
I've got nothing, believe it or not,
no one will believe me saying this.
I've got nothing but love for cherry.
And the way he plays and I respect him.
And he knows that.
We've had conversations prior to that.
But I went over to the UK and I had to rebuild myself
as a person first and then a player.
And I was lucky enough to land on my feet at Salford.
We weren't the greatest team.
I didn't know anyone besides Junior Sauer
on the whole team.
I remember watching Junior Sauer
when I was about four in the lounge.
No, not that young, but-
He's getting old.
Bro, he's about 40.
He's good on Instagram too.
But yeah, just went over there,
wanted to revive my career, obviously.
And then rebuild myself as a person.
And I was lucky enough to fall on my feet at Salford,
Sorry, when you say rebuild yourself,
do you rebuild yourself personally
and then football follows?
Or did you do the other way around?
Like, oh, I'm starting to play good football now.
You know what I mean?
My life just needed to slow down, bro.
Like I was just doing everything at a frantic speed.
I debuted as an 18 year old,
won two minor premierships in a row.
And then the year after we won the second minor premiership,
everything just went downhill.
Probably attitude wasn't great.
I was with some senior players at the Roosters.
Got let go from a club that I loved.
Didn't know what I was going to do.
Was playing reserve grade.
Was in and out of the side.
We made the finals.
We got beat by Pemrith.
And then the following year, obviously,
was playing first grade.
And then whatever happened, happened.
And then I just needed to slow down
and just focus on creating relationships,
having people that I trust, letting people in,
letting my guard down and stop being so like,
I don't know what the word is, bro.
I used to rather be on my own
than surround myself with people.
And I was just locking myself away and becoming miserable.
So, I mean, I got to go over there and no family,
no friends, knew no one.
Had to start again and created some really,
really good bonds with people that I still cherish now.
And then in the long run, that helped me with my football.
The 2019 season was the best year that I had in my career.
And then I went to Wigan in 20 and 21.
So I went 19 grand final, Great Britain tour,
20 grand final, won the Man of Steel in 19.
And everything was just going like that.
But so was my life.
I met my partner about eight weeks into my first stint
So the back end of 2018 and she helped slow my life down too.
You know, you're not out trying to chase chicks
or stay up to all hours in the morning.
You know, I was like, I was only 21 years old
when I went to England, which is crazy young,
like crazy young.
And then yeah, she helped slow my life down
and gave me a bit of a purpose.
And I had someone that would help me,
you know, as bad as it sounds,
she would help me with my washing,
she'd help me with my cleaning.
She'd just make life easier when I got home from training.
I didn't have to do it all on my own.
So she certainly helped for sure.
I probably got an unpopular opinion,
but I feel like the Super League should almost be
like the breeding ground for NRL.
Do you agree with that?
Yeah, a million percent bro.
If I say that to an English person, obviously.
Yeah, and they're very patriotic.
That's what I love about England as well.
Like you played over there, where you're from,
that's who you support.
And that goes back generations,
no matter what league you're in.
I got lucky enough to play for a club that wasn't expected
to do well in Salford,
but he's so loved by their fan base.
They're not the biggest fan base in the world,
but they're passionate as anything.
And then I got to go play for arguably the biggest club
in England, in Wigan.
And their supporters will let you know
if you're playing good or bad,
but they're arguably one of the best fan bases
in the world as well.
You know, they played a massive stadium.
They expect their team to win.
They've got ancient loyal written all over their gear.
Like they've been supporters from day one too.
So when I went over, I was playing with Greeny.
Greeny and Chez were the halves at Manly
and I was learning off them too.
And then when I went over,
Greeny was a guy that I watched play for Hull KR
for three years, I think it was,
then went to Wigan and then come back to the Storm
and rebuild his career.
You could really relate to that?
I had a little bit of inspiration from that, yeah.
And I wanted to do it sort of like the way Greeny done it.
And I was lucky enough to go do it in my own way.
We both had success.
I played in two grand finals, as I said,
and got to play at Old Trafford and things like that.
But he's someone that I lent on in terms of like,
well, if Greeny can go over as like a middle-aged player,
do really well and come back
and still have a long career in the NRL,
I'll take inspiration from that.
Because I was footy, footy, footy my whole life.
And I thought I'd played,
I think I played like 40 odd NRL games.
I went over and I thought maybe that might be it for me.
You know, I might not ever play in NRL again,
but I drew inspiration from what he did
and was able to find my way back.
Yeah, and I think it's a good way.
Cause I think the good thing about the English competition
is like you play so many games.
And they're not as hard like that Easter weekend.
It's like the worst thing ever.
They've scrapped it now.
Yeah, cause it's crazy, bro.
Like when you play, you play Friday, Sunday, Tuesday.
Yeah, well we played,
yeah, we played three games in seven days one time.
And we played Wigan, pumped us by like 50.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Easter Monday, it was like, yeah, tough day.
But like you cram a lot of games together.
There's not the external pressure
because obviously results happen.
You might get booed from the fans,
but it's not like in newspapers, you know?
It's all about football.
That was another part of my life, bro.
I wasn't like paranoid about what people
were gonna say about me.
Like I wasn't worried about
if I didn't have the best game in the world
or had an incident that I wasn't proud of.
I don't know, like a high tackle
or I did some, well, it doesn't matter what it is.
I wasn't worried about someone writing about it
on a back page of a paper.
I wasn't worried about people's opinions.
I was just worried about playing football
and being happy away from football.
Like people tell you that all the time
and you go, oh, well, I don't know if it like correlates,
but it does, it definitely does.
So- Yeah, for sure.
Like I'm happy as Larry up in Newcastle.
I played one of my best years in the NRL.
So going back to your point about England,
I would encourage especially young halves to go over.
You learn your craft so much more over there.
As you said, you're away from the spotlight.
You play in different conditions.
Aiden Seas has just done an interview, I think yesterday,
saying how much he learned about his game
and Seas would be what, 31 now?
Yeah, about there, yeah.
So, I mean, if it's helping people like him,
then it can help anyone.
Brodie Croft's over there at the moment.
Brodie Croft, he won Man of Steel.
His first year, he's killing it.
Won big coin apparently too, so fair play to him.
Yeah, good on him.
But yeah, man, I would encourage all young halves
that are stuck behind two or three guys
to go for one or two years, learn their craft
and come back a better player.
When's the point?
When you come back though, is it person by person?
Cause I look at Bev and French
and I feel like the game's gotten so much smaller
for fullbacks, like you look at Jaden Campbell,
he's not the biggest dude, but like the way that they move
and I think Bevy's as talented as anyone in the NRL.
I played with Bevy, I've known Bevy for years.
I played with him at Wigan, he, it's crazy.
Like no one can touch him over there, bro.
It's like watching someone in fast forward.
It just hits fast forward and he just runs around everyone.
But he could come back and do a job in the NRL,
But he just signed another four years at Wigan, I think.
He's one of the highest paid over there too, isn't he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he deserves it too.
Like he could have won Man of Steel,
I reckon, threes in a row,
but he just plays in one of the best sides.
So people take points off each other.
It's kind of like Nathan at Pembroke
because they've got so many players
that take points off each other.
Dylan Edwards, Jerome, Fisher Harris,
all them boys take points off each other.
Nathan hasn't won one yet, but.
Is Dele M. Taylor towards a middle tier team
with a good fullback?
Oh, I don't know, I don't know, bro.
It's hard, it's hard for the good teams
that are consistently good
because they've got so many good players
that take points off each other.
Pretty much what I just said then.
So Kalen showed that you don't have to be a bad team
to win it though.
You just have to be the best player every week.
And that's what he was by country mile for us.
So he might've broken the curse for some people.
Who's some English guys over there right now
that could come down?
I know you've got a couple at Newcastle right now.
Who's a couple of other ones that are over there right now
that could come in and make an impact?
Because I feel like they're hardly ever backs.
I know Dom Young's been great.
I reckon a guy, Jake Wardle,
that plays for Wigan right now.
He's a left center, he's got mad feet.
Strong, athletic.
As an outside back, I reckon he could come cut it.
I reckon there's a few guys that leads,
probably Ash Hanley, he's a winger.
Harry Newman plays for England.
He plays center for England.
Jack Welsby's a big one that everyone talks about,
the fullback for St. Helens.
He's just always on the ball.
He can play half, five, eight,
but just super talented kid.
I think you would've watched the World Cup Challenge.
He dominated really.
I think Penrith would be the first to admit
he dominated that game.
Good kicking game.
A guy that I would've loved to have seen come out
that's still playing.
He plays for St. Helens too, five, eight.
Oh yeah, I played against him, bro.
He just makes the game look easy.
Actually, he reminds me a bit of Normie.
Cruises around the field, plays at different tempos,
but always picks the right pass.
Alex Walmsley, I wish he'd come out too,
another one at Saints.
Big front row, big six foot six prop.
There's heaps, bro, that I reckon if they got given a chance
they could dominate.
Morgan Smith, he's just went to Canberra.
He'll probably play lock for them, I reckon.
He's a tough kid, robust.
Just your typical pommy, 13.
They're silky either, the pommy 13 boys.
And in the rain, bro.
They're doing it in the rain.
When you were over there, did they have the Steadon
or did they have the Rhinos?
They still had the Rhinos when you were playing?
Yeah, they had the Rhino, yeah.
You couldn't catch it, bro.
It was like playing for Barra.
So my first year, I was like, what is this, man?
They're a bit smaller too, aren't they?
Yeah, they're shit.
So they're with Steadon now, which is good.
But a few of those English boys,
if they got a hold of it, good luck.
Every English half that I've ever seen can kick a ball.
That's because they grew up playing soccer.
Yeah, a lot of them were in academies until like 13 or 14
and then realized that, oh, a lot of money in it,
but there's so many talented football
or soccer players over there.
And then they go to rugby league and like Danny Brough
when a man is still just kicking teams to death, bro.
He just sits behind the rock, just pointing blokes around,
just kicking to death, 40-20s field goals.
Bro, they make me laugh.
Some of the English boys, they'll be up like, I don't know,
they'll be up by like 30 and they'll just go for a field goal
from halfway and kick it and just jog back
like it's a good play.
Just go and score another try, bro.
I played against him.
Yeah, he was good.
He was a good player.
But yeah, like there's so many players,
I reckon if they got given a chance to come over,
they'd thrive, but.
So I always like, we used to say this about the West Tigers
where they're like, oh, they should go target.
Cause it's hard to sell West Tigers to people
that live here and obviously you would come back there.
But I feel like that should have been the game plan.
Kind of what Newcastle's done now.
You got KP who's on one point, whatever.
And you go to England and get some up and coming juniors.
And then you get someone like a Dom Young
Is that the path you see for English players
coming down this way?
I think Canberra did that as well.
Canberra, sorry, Canberra were the best.
They obviously had Jackie White and Papa Lee
and boys like that.
They built the club around
and they went for the English boys.
And that's the other part too.
Like you live in Sydney, you go, let's go play for Canberra.
You're like, that's a long winter.
And well, it's easy for clubs.
Well, it should be easy for the Sydney clubs
or clubs like Newcastle that are on the coast
that English boys are from like Bradford, Leeds,
Manchester, Hull.
And it's pissing down rain 24 seven.
They come here and they live on the beach.
So like Kaipis Paul is with us now.
I can't believe he's lucky.
He just, he's on the beach every day.
That's what I mean.
Newcastle's not a tough sell for someone in England.
Nah, nah, as long as the footy's good.
Like it's one of the best places in the world to play,
I reckon, Newcastle.
Like out of all the teams I've been at,
like obviously the Roosters with the financial backing,
the history, like how good they always are.
One of the best clubs in the country more.
When you play for Manly, same thing.
Big club, live on the beach.
And then you go to Newcastle, it's like this,
when you're winning, it is easily the best place to play.
You get 30,000 a game.
You live on the beach.
Slow lifestyle away from football.
You get to know some,
you meet people that have businesses,
good relationships that they can help you
with life after footy.
So I mean, yeah, the English thing's crazy.
Like our two boys, Kaipis Paul and Will Price,
they're gonna be real good players.
I think Kaipis six foot seven can offload at Will.
They're single, single girl.
Just ask half of the ladies in Newcastle on Instagram.
I think, I think the boys, I think the boys, I think the boys,
I think the boys, I think the boys, I think the boys,
I think the boys do all right anyway.
Yeah, I'm sure they do.
I'm 28 now, so I'll stay away from them conversations.
I live my life through them anyway, put it that way.
As the older boys do.
Yeah, yeah, I'm the fourth oldest, I think.
So I can't believe that, yeah, quick life goes, bro.
But yeah, they've got some good war stories.
So your 5'8 position, is it up for grabs?
So I watched Tyson Gamble play last year
and I saw Tyson Gamble as an effort player.
Someone who sort of molds his game,
similar to like a Josh Reynolds.
But I watched last year and he started to develop like a bit
I remember he got like a charge down, like just slowing up.
The stuff that probably comes natural to you,
but takes time for other people.
But as a half, I really started to appreciate the growth
Yeah, so when I first signed at Newcastle,
KP was obviously going to be the sixth.
So the whole game plan to start was just play on the footy,
essentially when KP wants to give it to him.
And then we ended up signing Lockie Miller,
who was like that Tedesco type for the middle,
plenty of runs, plenty of effort.
But we wanted KP on the end of all the shapes
for obvious reasons that he ices,
nine times out of 10.
When he went down, we were lucky that me and,
so KP hurt his calf last pre-season and was out for,
I don't want to put GST on it, five to six weeks.
So he was off feet with a bad calf.
And me and Tyson got six weeks of reps together.
And the moment I stood on the field with him,
I knew that I was going to get effort, defense,
competitiveness, we'll chase kicks, do all the hard shit.
And then after four weeks, we were having spy meetings
and he was running the meetings.
And I didn't realize how smart he was, bro.
Like people look at Tyson and he has a mullet,
he's out there, he speaks his mind,
but he's a very smart, intelligent footy player, bro.
And then with Greeny overseeing our attack,
he developed tempo.
He threw like three or four pitches to Dom Young last year.
Like he got out the back of shape, played direct,
the line claps, 15 meter long ball to the winger.
He's kicking games like more than sound,
real good kicker of the football.
And if you add those two things
with the competitive nature in his defense, he, his game,
went from, like at Brisbane, he was part-time.
He's a genuine six in the NRL now.
There's no mistake about it.
And then we've got Cogs there as well.
And you aren't, he's aren't small too.
And I was surprised how big you are.
He, his body fat's like 2% Tyson.
He's in good shape, man.
He'd be six, he'd be six two, I reckon.
I don't know his exact measurements.
I should know, he sits right next to me in the locker
and doesn't shut up.
But yeah, he's a big boy and he throws his body around too.
He's not small too.
But like in saying that,
we've got no excuse to miss tackles on the edge too.
So when you have Fafida in that run that you miss,
everyone's looking at you like,
come on bro, you should tackle him.
Like it's heaps easy.
Yeah, you tackle him.
But then we've got Cogs as well.
Who's brought another dimension.
Like he, he can play six and seven.
I think he switched his game up really well.
Everyone talks about the grand final,
but I look at the games like before that,
when he had to jump in and he had to-
Had the seven, yeah.
Yeah, he had to play seven.
But then sometimes when Jerome dominates the game
and you have to play second fiddle on like those long shapes
and you have Yo for the middle,
he's good at the back of that second layer too.
So he's taught me a fair bit.
He has, he's had to learn our system,
but he's also brought what he learned at Pembroke,
which is a pretty good breeding ground
for halves learning off Nathan and Ivan, so.
It's nice and direct, eh?
He knows his game.
What Cogs does really well is he knows
what he's really good at and he nails that.
And yeah, he's a great runner of the footy too.
I didn't realize how good of a runner he was.
Like when the middles are lazy,
he's got a nice little right foot, gets in behind him.
Got a really good kicking game too.
So yeah, the halves battles,
the halves battles well and truly on, I think for all of us.
I think the best thing about it is we're all accountable.
We all have to get along first and foremost,
but we all need to put the best interest of the team first.
And I've really enjoyed that for the pre-season.
I didn't do the first part of it
and watch those two battle in the left and rights
and stuff like that.
Now, when we all get a crack in left v right,
you can tell all three boys are competing
and it's bringing out the best in not only like us as players,
but the whole team.
So yeah, it's going to be interesting which way it goes, but.
And when you're on the other side on defending too,
are you like, fuck, let's get a stop here?
Always go the back row.
Make sure you sack him, make sure you sack him.
All right, jam that.
Me and Tyson are quite funny, man.
It got quite competitive towards the end of the year.
We're winning games by 40
and then we'd go to train on Tuesday
and it's like me and you were going at it kind of thing.
We don't say that, but like he'll come up with a great play.
I'll get beat or like I'll go on a loop play
and then Dom will step me and score.
And then he's going, yeah, great plan.
I'm just going, fuck, I've got to get him back.
And my whole game was to get him back.
So that's certainly brought out the best in both of us.
And I've been loving that, the competitive battle so far.
Your coach obviously was under a bit of pressure.
Maybe, I don't know, the last little period.
Legend, mate, legend.
He's got a tough exterior.
He looks real tough and brash, I guess you could say.
But he's such a caring person, man.
As I said, I don't want to go back into too much of myself.
But the mental health journey I'm on,
I wouldn't be on it without Adam pushing me to go do that.
And he didn't do that from a place of like,
you need to get help.
He just wanted the best for me.
And if that was going to be the case,
the best for me, he was there backing me.
But the care he has for the players,
I think every single player in our squad
can speak for the fact that he knows them on a personal basis,
has events at his house, loves the partners being involved.
And when it comes to coaching, he's just no nonsense.
You know what he expects from you.
And he's the first to pat you on the back
when you nail that job.
So I love being coached by him.
I think the coaches like him and Madge,
I'll use Madge because I've had him too,
have that real hard exterior where people look at him
and go, oh, is he angry?
But really, they're the most loving guys, bro.
Like, they're fun to joke around.
Like, a few of the Paraboys have told me about Brad Arthur.
Like, real, real man's man coach.
And that's exactly like Adzio Bryan.
Like, everyone in our squad respect him because, yeah,
But he's the first one to put his arm around us
and pat us on the back too.
So I love being coached by him.
Trent Robertson, you were under him for a bit.
I didn't realize how smart he was until I
had a conversation with him.
And at the time, Mitchell Pearce was actually
playing for Newcastle.
And it was the first time he broke down
the spine with the 13.
That was attached to me.
And Carl Flanagan had just left, and I asked the question.
I was like, oh, what happened there?
And because one of his passing 13s had gone,
he had to make a bit more plays on that right edge
and couldn't see as clear as they had hoped.
So they'd let him go through that.
But what he said about Newcastle was because we're
going to go play Newcastle, he goes,
Junior touches the ball 26% of the time at first receiver.
So it's easy to read Newcastle's because we just
throw Tedesco in the halfway and throw everyone on the up.
And he said that in like two minutes.
I was like, what the fuck?
Like, he's at that level.
Well, when I first met him, my first ever meeting,
we sat in a room.
And he said to me, oh, he didn't just say to me.
He said to the team, righto, I want
you to know the dimensions of the field.
So like, what's this post to the corner post?
How many meters is that?
I don't know what it is.
I should know, because he told us.
And then he goes, black dot to the corner post.
How wide is a field full length?
What is that, 36?
So 72 is the width.
What's a field 72?
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, something like that.
And he wanted us to know all the dimensions.
He gave us a diagram, him and Fitzy, of your position.
How many meters off the sideline you should be stood
if they're on your 40, your 30, your 20.
They're coming out of trouble.
He breaks the game down to a tee.
So if you don't get your job right,
he's giving you all the info.
You go in the video, and you're like,
were you 27 meters off the sideline there?
No, no, I was 28.
Well, you need to be 27.
You would have stopped it.
Is it that detailed?
It's that detailed, man.
And that's why he produces so many good players.
I know he's had good teams, but he's
produced some real good kids coming through
there, like what he'd done for Victor Radley's game.
I played 20s with Victor, and he was always
fly at the line, smack blokes, do mad stuff like that.
But his tempo with the footy is, he could play half-back
if he wanted, I reckon.
Literally, we're number seven.
He might get sent off for hitting back rows high,
but his ball playing's elite, man.
I love watching him, his catch on contact,
and going right into the tee, copping a whack for his mate.
And the way he plays with Jarrod and Lindsey Collins
and moves them around the field, it's like chess for him.
And then defensively.
He's just bullet a gate.
So I love watching him play, man.
I hate playing against him, but I love watching him play.
Oh, yeah, he'd be the worst to play against.
What about their back line this year?
Oh, land of the Giants.
They're all like six.
Like, Joey would be the shortest, wouldn't he?
He'd be like 6'3".
And he's just got the best feet of all time,
and one of the best defensive centers.
Yeah, and he'd just palm you.
I've got nothing but respect for him, man.
They always sign well.
People want to go there for obvious reasons.
You have a chance of winning a comp every year.
And you get to go.
You live in Bondi.
Yeah, live in Bondi, live in the East, get coached by Robbo.
It's pretty cool.
So pretty exciting start to the year,
obviously, with Vegas happening.
You've got a New York Knicks shirt on.
Are you a fan of Knicks?
I don't go for the Knicks, no.
I'm a LeBron guy.
I'm a LeBron guy.
I just follow him.
I'm Americanized today.
I should wear a Vegas tee.
Really ramped it up.
Just a little promo.
Get the Knicks over there next year.
What's your thoughts on rugby league going to Vegas?
It's going to be cool to watch the four teams go over
and play in Vegas.
A few teams are starting in LA, I think,
and then moving up to Vegas and stuff like that, too.
It took me back from one of my first years at the Roosters.
We played in the UK against St. Helens
and went to Dubai for a week, then the UK for a week,
and then come home.
So that whole thing's sick, man.
And it's an experience that none of those boys
will ever forget, too.
And if it brings more eyeballs to our game,
then we're more than merry.
I'm sure there's so many athletes in America
that would love to play rugby league without their helmet
And I'm sure there'd be a lot of good centers and wingers
over there that would eventually want to come and play.
That's the one I was thinking about.
Like, all the talented athletes that probably don't make NFL,
it'd be interesting if they all come down
and start playing football.
Watching the Super Bowl, like, blokes like Brock Purdy.
He'd probably be a good halfback.
Christian McCaffrey, like, him playing anywhere
on the field in rugby league, he'd be tortured.
Debo Samuel, big Travis Kelsey, my boy.
Imagine him playing back row or something like that,
just throwing the ball.
But there's so many cool athletes
and different body shapes that would come over here
and do well, I reckon, if they were coached the right way.
Did you see the McCaffrey content recently, this week,
when he's talking about his dad during high school?
How he made him get on the IB and stuff like that.
I mean, funny enough, my missus blocked me the other night.
She goes, what are you doing?
It's bed, like, I go to bed at a certain time every night.
But I was fascinated by the way he trained.
I was watching this video of him, like, swimming
and doing all this weird fundamental movement stuff.
Like, you can tell why he's such a,
like, he's been blessed with his parents,
obviously, being phenomenal athletes
and, like, didn't fall far from the tree.
But they work so hard, man, and they're just built different.
I reckon the American athletes, they're crazy.
Hey, do you see us sort of taking on,
we were sort of talking about a little bit before,
about, like, my off-season was,
I used to go and get on the piss for six to eight weeks.
And everyone's so much more professional, so much cooler.
Do you see that Americanized professionalism
coming down there?
I reckon with the influence of, like,
people going to Bill Knowles as well.
Like, obviously, he's over there,
and they're going for, like, rehabbing certain injuries.
But I think the influence
of, like, I think there's been, like, six or seven boys
that have gone over there with physios,
which is ultimately going to bring back
sort of that training to the club naturally
that the players just come from.
But I love the way that they individualize
their training programs.
Obviously, they have to.
They don't have to do the 9K field sessions,
the MAS runs and stuff like that.
They don't have to wrestle.
They don't have to do things like that.
But I think it will get to a point in the NRL
where it's individualized a lot more.
There'll be a lot more, like, one-on-one coaching
for position groups and doing stuff like that.
We do stuff like that now, obviously,
with kick-catch, and forwards will go practice
certain plays and wrestling and stuff like that.
But I think it'll get to a point where,
well, this will be way, way after I'm gone,
but, like, halfbacks will have to be a certain build.
They'll have to be able to do certain things.
Like a quarterback, they want their quarterback
to be able to see over the O-line,
be able to throw a certain distance,
move in the pocket, things like that.
I think it will get to that eventually.
But, yeah, I don't know.
It'd be good if we didn't have to do MAS runs now.
Their hard work, pre-season's over, thank God, so.
Yeah, I don't know.
Like, I remember, like, I was over at football,
and we'd done a wrestling match,
and we'd done a wrestling session with Seabes,
and it was like one of his first sessions there.
And I was like, after that, I was like,
nah, they're saying that for me.
Like, I already checked out.
Yeah, sometimes, sometimes,
definitely at three o'clock in the hour,
when you gotta go tackle the Saff brothers
and things like that, it gets a bit testy,
but when you love the game, when you love the game,
you know you gotta do it,
and ultimately, you gotta be able to tackle on the field,
I've obviously seen you in the past,
and, like, bouncing around,
and, like, you've always been kind to me in DMs,
and seeing you over there with Daniel Patrick.
Is there, outside of business and sports,
something that you're interested in,
that you're interested in?
I feel like you pay attention to a lot of things.
Yeah, bro, like, I've watched a lot of your stuff.
I think what you're doing in the space with the NRL boys,
I think a lot more people are taking notice of it.
Obviously, watch your content at Penrith.
I think that's really cool for,
I think players respect people that have gone before them,
and then are venturing to something else,
like yourself, Louis Brown, other two that come to mind.
Obviously, I got to play with Louis at Manly,
when Earl's was just a dream,
and now it's, obviously, he's collabing with Asics,
and doing cool shit like that,
so respect to both you guys,
but, yeah, the business side
is something that, bro, I don't know that much about.
Like, I wouldn't be able to step out of football right now,
and go straight into it,
but it's something that I'd be willing to learn, for sure.
Like, funny enough, like, the Daniel Patrick thing,
like, I don't want to misquote him,
he'll probably DM me after this,
but I think his mum went out with my dad.
So, like, that's-
Could've been brothers, man.
Shout out to my old man, for getting it done.
But, yeah, I got to spend some time with him in America,
got to cruise around with him, see how, like-
That was cool, eh?
He just took me in his car,
showed me parts of LA, which is crazy.
I never thought I got to do that,
but it's something that, like,
I've always thought about doing,
but have never had, probably, the courage
to step out of my comfort zone and get involved in it.
But when you see people that have played the game
at the highest level,
and then have gone on to create something like this
for themselves, it's pretty inspiring, I guess,
for the next generation.
And blokes like, I always look at blokes like KP,
and wonder, like,
I wonder what he's going to do after football.
But he's had little things
that have started,
and then he's probably just put on the back burner
because he hasn't needed it.
But I think those seminars that you're doing at clubs
and stuff, I think will get a lot more people interested
and wanting to do stuff like this after footy, for sure.
Yeah, thanks, bro.
But a big one for me, bro, is, like,
I always find, like, people,
and I won't say his name on,
I remember we were out for a dinner one time,
and he was a good player,
and he didn't pick up a contract the next year.
And we were at dinner, it was like me, Wade, Chico,
blah, blah, blah.
And he's just like, oh,
a coming blind after a day's work,
and he's, oh, hey, my name's X.
You won't remember me anyway,
And I just remember that, like, so clearly.
That self-worth thing.
Yeah, all his, like, I said in that speech,
all his self-worth was attached
just to just being a football player.
And for me, I was the opposite.
Like, I played football,
but I wasn't necessarily in love with it.
I was, like, carrying around cameras.
Basically what KP does now, but he's made it cool.
I was doing that, but getting paid out for it.
Look, I still struggle with that.
Like, if you don't play well on the weekend,
or your self-esteem is bad because you haven't played well,
you want to play well,
you also carry around, like, oh, I'm a footy player.
I've got to play well every week.
So I'm 28, and I'm still learning to deal with that.
But I reckon for me,
it's definitely something in the next couple of years
that I want to take a lot more serious,
getting into something away from football
that can actually occupy my time away from the game.
Like, I put so much into,
I want to train well every day.
I need to eat well.
I need to be this certain weight.
I want to be able to tackle.
I want to do all this stuff.
I want to nail my video.
But I'd love to be able to step away from the game
and be like, all right, I want to focus on creating this,
or being a part of this brand.
a main deal is something away from football.
So if anyone out there is watching,
that needs to know.
But no, it's certainly something
I'm interested in for sure.
I heard you say nail video.
What's, how important is that to you?
Because I know you follow Baker Mayfield.
Can you relate to him a bit?
Oh, a little bit, a little bit, yeah.
Is that why he's your guy?
I remember watching him in college
when he went off the rails a little bit.
I remember, like, I first saw him on YouTube
when he put the flag in the field,
and then he got arrested,
and then he grabbed the crotch.
oh, I was gone for a period of my life
where I was a bit like that.
Like, I was rude out there, obnoxious.
And then to see his transformation
in terms of like, now he's a respectful guy,
got a kid on the way, married.
His teammates love him.
I can sort of draw inspiration from that.
He's bounced around clubs, wasn't really rated.
And then now all of a sudden he'll probably,
I listen to a lot of talk shows in America.
He's probably going to get 25 mil a year,
you know what I mean?
Which is, which is epic for him.
But yeah, I'd consider him my boy.
I'd love to meet Bake, the Bake Show baby.
Cause when I see you post them, I was like,
oh, and like, I related to a guy
in football called Arian Foster.
And like he, at the same time,
I think we snapped our Achilles around the same time.
And I remember him speaking and I was like influenced
by the way he read an article.
And I just like, he was kind of like my guy
and he wasn't like the best player or anything,
but I just used to love the way he articulated himself.
Yeah, they don't have to be the best.
Oh, that's like what I tell people.
They don't have to be the best player.
I reckon if you relate to someone and you're a fan of him,
you just like, I follow his story so closely, bro.
like he was doing too many commercials
and he'd come out and said,
I've got to stop the commercials.
And I just, I just watch him bro.
And like, I just love seeing people that,
obviously, cause it's a part of my journey.
I love watching people that have sort of put themselves
in position to fail and then they climb out of that
and they succeed.
Like you gotta love a good comeback story, so.
Yeah, is football your favorite sport
outside of regular?
Yeah, that and basketball, but.
Like I look at, I've been watching,
I follow like front office sports
and all the ones that cross between business and sports,
but the amount of views,
Like even Super Bowl,
even like the normal round games get like 17 million views
Like our whole NRL final series got 13.2.
Like just the level that it's at.
The numbers, man.
I think the NFL season is so short too.
It's so easy to lock in on.
Whereas basketball, like I love LeBron.
Like LeBron's my favorite athlete of all time.
I try and watch as many games as I can,
but because there's so many teams playing on so many nights,
there's so many games,
then you've got seven game series.
It's hard to like fully invest yourself in it.
Whereas the NFL bro,
like red zone every Monday,
get up at four o'clock, watch that.
And then you got the Monday and Tuesday games,
obviously Saturday, Sunday, over there,
Sunday, Monday, sorry for them over there,
where it's pretty cool to lock in on.
And they're relatable in terms of like what they do,
like they tackle, they run,
but they're just such great athletes too.
And you can draw inspiration from a lot of people like that.
I love their stories too.
Like my home's a story now,
watching that quarterback series,
like that was sick to watch.
That was sick, yeah.
To watch different types of people too.
Like you had one guy that was in and out of the team.
You had Kirk Cousins who highest paid quarterback,
it was a family man and Locke was just within himself.
Then you had Mahomes,
who's arguably one of the greatest players of all time,
who lives in like a house worth 20 million.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah, were you tagged in that Caesars Palace one?
Yeah, it's sick bro.
It caught me off guard actually.
Cause like, it would be interesting.
Cause like I said,
like everyone's got a preconceived notion of you.
It'd be interesting to see behind the scenes.
People would want to watch it for all sorts of reasons.
It's like when people watch McGregor fight,
they want to see him get knocked out.
I think people would want to watch me get smoked too,
but I remember messaging him like,
if he goes to the NRL of it,
I'll sit there and back him.
I don't think it will happen obviously,
but like to do something like that,
especially if you had someone at the top of it,
it's going to drag eyeballs regardless of who else is in it.
But to get something behind the scenes of someone,
I think that you've done it a few times
when you were vlogging,
getting the boys behind the scenes,
but haven't been able to constantly do it.
Like the way the quarterback did it,
they were getting every aspect of their life in it,
like 24 seven around the clock.
I reckon that'd be pretty cool.
The player would have to be open to it as well.
Cause it's invasion of privacy.
Like you're doing everything with a,
so close to you in your face,
you know what I mean?
So yeah, I'd be open to it.
Yeah, definitely.
And Volandes is the type of guy that I reckon
he'd want to get,
he'd go after something like that too.
And if someone could propose something cool
that makes sense financially for the NRL,
I reckon they'd be on board.
You sort of talked about the NFL having a shorter season.
Do you reckon there's something viable for rugby league?
yeah, I don't know.
I love playing the game bro.
So like, I actually don't mind playing,
playing the 28 rounds or 26 rounds with two boys.
it's a bit taxing on the body obviously.
And then you got the boys that play origin
in the middle of the year.
You can understand why they have a bit of a down period.
Some of them like they're up so high,
they make rep footy,
they're up again.
And then they've got to come back to club footy.
I can see how hard that is,
but I reckon they'll get to a point.
It depends on the concussion thing.
Obviously they're still doing a lot of research on that.
I reckon that could be the biggest factor
in maybe shortening the season.
The more concussions,
the more people we lose to the game through that.
I reckon that could change it.
I'm a lover of the game bro.
the more the merrier for me.
Push it out to 36.
What's your thoughts on if we had conferences?
I actually don't mind that.
I like the idea of that too.
You play your conference twice.
Twice and everyone else once.
Yeah, the winner goes through
and then seeds and stuff like that.
I reckon people like,
I think the purists in our game don't want to see change.
Like I'm massive for names in the back of the jerseys.
I know with sponsors and that,
they get first dibs.
They're putting a lot of money in the clubs,
but also like how proud you are of wearing your name
when you're back.
conferences will be sick bro.
I'm all for that.
Cause I see it this way.
we talked about this a couple of years ago
So you play a conference twice,
And obviously those are all the best games.
So it'd be like the Western Sydney conference
would be the big conference right now.
But the other part was like,
say if KP is playing at Suncorp one year,
you won't be able to see him at Suncorp
for another two years.
So you'd be more inclined to go watch the game
while he's there.
Obviously he's probably gonna play Origin
and shit like that.
But I always saw it like that to build a fan experience.
It is a sick idea.
It is a sick idea bro.
obviously if you're the number one seed,
you get the week off,
it makes the final series fair.
Cause then you get the week off,
then you play at home all the way to the grand final
I reckon that's got legs out.
I haven't really thought about it,
but I don't know how that would,
how would you split up?
Like you obviously got the three Queensland sides.
Who do you put as the?
Probably Melbourne.
Cause they've got the history with.
Oh yeah, that's fair.
A lot of trouble though for them though.
Yeah, that's true.
Oh no, but I reckon that's sick though.
I do like that idea.
The more I think about it.
The hard thing now,
we've got 17 teams.
So this is going to be like,
I was right when we had 16,
cause it was like four, four, four.
It broke up perfectly.
Maybe you wait for 18 and then.
I don't know how you split it, but yeah,
that's pretty cool.
Let's just dive into this American sports.
Do you reckon we have,
the only thing that I don't know about drafts is,
do we have enough kids coming out of like high school
to have a genuine draft?
Do you reckon like?
Maybe you push it up with like a little bit wider.
The hard thing was it'd be like a team like Penrith
who's developed all their juniors.
Like all those guys are getting sniped.
I had a coffee with Bryce Cartwright and obviously 2013,
it was the Bryce Cartwright show in the twenties.
And we had a look at who came last that year,
who would pick them up.
And it was actually like Parramatta.
So like, I just think it'd be.
So I reckon if the AFL can do it,
I know more people in Australia,
like widely play AFL, especially in Melbourne,
but I reckon if you took their model,
that seems to work too.
I think over the course of that person,
whoever goes number one's career,
they have a chance to change a club as well,
which is pretty cool.
Like if Nathan, for argument's sake,
no one knew how good he was going to be,
but say he landed at a team that hadn't gone so well,
and then he's winning grand finals for them,
that could change the trajectory of their whole club too.
So we don't want to lose.
I don't think we want to lose the fabric of what makes the
but we've also got to change with the times I reckon.
And I think with someone like Peter Volandes at the top,
he improvises a fair bit.
I'll actually like the way he attacks things
and he backs himself and he's been great for the players.
And like we've got the deal over the line
and things like that too.
So I reckon if someone went to him with a genuine plan
that made sense financially and business wise,
I reckon we could make that happen.
Cause I think it'd be cool to obviously like track
the next gen coming through.
Cause they do a great in like high school
and obviously college football's a beast in a zone
and the amount of money that comes in through that.
But I think it'd be cool if we had like Jackson Hastings
wouldn't go five-star recruit.
Yeah. There's a kid in Brisbane now that all bro,
like I've randomly started watching a bit of him.
I think I don't want to say his name wrong.
It's either Cody or Kobe Black.
Have you heard much about him?
I read an article about him a year ago saying
that's going to be Adam Reynolds successor,
which he was 16, maybe 17.
And then I watched him because the Broncos are playing.
I saw his name on the team list in like 21.
And I'm like, I'm going to watch this kid play.
And then in the trials, you're like,
oh yeah, this kid can play bro.
Like he's actually like,
they're not just saying he's going to be,
the next, the next big thing.
Like he looks like he's got the goods.
So even as a player now still playing in the NRL,
I like watching young kids come through
and dominate the ones with the big raps
that have all the pressure on them that come through
and live up to the hype.
And it's like the LeBron thing.
Like there's probably no athlete ever
that's had as much pressure.
And obviously we're not,
we don't got the market for USA.
It's cool watching like the Nathan Cleary story.
If that was documented from when he was 15, 16,
Or even younger when he was at the Warriors bro.
Like running around being the ball boy for the Warriors.
Like that'd be epic to watch that back.
and even like listening to Ivan talk about,
cause playing in New Zealand,
all the Islander boys are huge.
Like Nathan played soccer too.
He was like 13 or something because,
and then he would only play against people his own size.
And I was playing against men when I was like 13
and my dad was my coach
and he used to just throw me out on the wing.
And like, I just, you know,
you spend three years not tackling
and you come into like junior Kiwis.
He was trying to,
and like, obviously he was trying to do me a favor
cause he was playing against men.
But it actually like fucks your development.
Were you small, like not being smart ass,
were you small as a kid?
Yeah, I was, I was like small and we're in halves,
but I was talking to some of the Warriors coaches.
The hard thing about playing in New Zealand is like,
cause you play behind such big packs,
even up to your twenties.
Like by the time you get to first grade,
you've never really got into an arm wrestle
where you've had to kick out at like you're 30 or 40.
Like, and obviously South Coast
is a strong competition growing up
and they talk like it's NRL.
But you learn, you learn how to play football properly,
especially as a half.
And like, I was lucky enough that we,
I went to school and Matty Head was our, was our coach.
Matty Head was a pretty handy.
He was a good player.
I played him back in the day.
And then I, when I went into twenties,
Justin Holbrook was my head coach,
but I had Benny Hornby, Dean Young.
Like we had a lot of ex-Sowie.
When I was in Harold Matts,
Sowie was like our kicking coach and things like that.
So I was lucky that I had like a lot of ex-NRL players
or NRL players at the time, like giving me information.
And the best thing about Sowie,
and I've got a good relationship with Sowie.
He's always helped me and followed me from my career
that he's just honest.
That's one thing I respect about him.
He won't just tell you what you want to hear.
I remember we were doing a game,
kicking session, me and Adam Clooney one day
and Clooney kicked, Clooney kicked the bad one.
And Sowie, we were like 17.
Sowie was like, nah, shit.
Just saying, to a 17 year old kid.
But it definitely helped us in the long run, both of us.
Sowie helped my kicking game.
Cause like at training, I could like,
it was weird, you watch Sowie kick at training
and he like, he didn't look like the best kicker.
Like the spin on the ball wasn't always amazing,
but you get him in the game and you're up by eight.
Like he can kick you to a word.
But he taught me like a lot about kicking.
Like the first thing he taught me was like,
try and get the ball in your hands.
As quick as possible.
So you start close to the nine,
obviously you have your block player there
and like move on the up.
Where I was catching wide and trying to,
cause I didn't have a big kick.
I was just trying to kick direct and like through the line.
And I always found myself under pressure.
And that one little thing like helped me so much.
Did you kick on the left or the right?
I was right, I'm right footed.
Yeah, see I played a lot of footy last year on the left
and trying to get a good kick,
obviously being right footer in the market,
coming at your right legs hard.
I got to play with Jim Maloney and he was on the left
and he was, he was so good
at catch, drop straight away and nailed his kicks.
But Roosters only do one kick, it's that bomb, eh?
That's all they do.
Well this year, I reckon they'll just kick for the winger.
As you would, like if you had Dom Young
and Toops on either side.
I remember when I was at the Roosters,
like I, like, and I was obviously big on reading comments.
I used to get criticized for just kicking for Toops.
But what, Toops and Skids,
like you're going to kick for those two.
They're freaks in there, you know what I mean?
And then I watched Jimmy and Piercy kick
and they would like kick early for Jenko
and people like that.
And so it makes you think like,
don't just use your big guys up.
Use these quick guys in and around the ruck
and kick for the other half and things like that too.
Yeah, Jenko would be probably
the best grubber chaser ever, isn't he?
Well, they're trying the grand final,
but I'll still watch it and go, what?
Yeah, he's so rapid.
That was epic, yeah.
Yeah, they, you look at the Roosters game now
and obviously like Kerry and Walker,
they're not like the sweetest strikers of the ball.
They don't get like, you compare it to Bird
and then what they're doing in Reynolds.
Like they can land it on the spot, but float it.
And you watch their kicking game,
like they don't have the massive kick.
So it feels like you just put everyone under pressure.
I think they dominate.
I think they just dominate through field position,
through their pack first and foremost.
Their pack's aggressive.
Obviously Jared, Lindsey, Brandon Smith at nine
and then Brad, and then they've got some great edges.
Obviously Sotili got injured last year,
but they've got Siwa Wong and people like that
coming through, the Butcher brothers.
I just recommend their back five
and the way Tedesco carries the ball.
They're over halfway most of the time anyway.
So you don't need to have a big kick.
The only time you really need to have a big kick
is when like you're on your 30, 40
and you need to really give it something.
Like I reckon Mitch is probably,
apart from Burton's obviously,
Torpy that's out of this world ridiculous.
I reckon Mitch Moses has got the best like long,
clean, pure strike consistently.
Yeah, it is a nice strike too.
And he jumps too.
Yeah, he's smart.
You can't hit him.
You run past him and you want to get a piece
and you have to get out of the way.
But for someone that kicks them weird,
Cherry kicks them like different,
but he kicks them long.
He's Torpy like flat and long is good.
Reynolds is, Reynolds is arguably the best,
like the Swedish striker.
Like every kick he can do.
Looks effortless, doesn't it?
Oh, it looks mad.
I love watching him kick.
Yeah, like I always think of like Cherry's kicks
and obviously he's nailed the 40, 21,
but like it's kind of like a high drop,
double release and around the corner.
No one else could kick like him.
So like when I was there,
we'll do drills where like you'd kick for the cones
and get a repeat set.
Like he holds it like funny and it looks like,
well, what's he going to do?
He nails it every time.
Reynolds is the best kicking the grubber straight on
for his back row.
Cherry's the best at like threading it through the line.
Like a lot, you see a lot of players,
but myself included, hit legs all the time
and you're thinking, fuck,
how's he's not going through?
And then you watch him play and they always go through.
They always fit a line.
Yeah, he tried to break it down
in like coaching points for me when I was there.
He goes like, like start tight
as soon as you get it, go straight across the line.
And he goes, the hole will open, you just plug it through.
Oh, it's just that easy.
And I'll get the ball and I'm like, fuck, where's this hole?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What else are you talking about?
Yeah, and obviously like when you go in sideways,
you can shake the ball so it spins.
And he goes like, Joey taught me that.
And I was like, oh, I just can't see it, man.
Reynolds is so impressive
because he kicks literally straight through the line
where everyone's legs are and he doesn't miss either.
So yeah, there's players that are just like gifted.
Like the way they strike the ball
is just different to everyone else.
Stacey Jones taught me one thing
when I was a little bit younger,
which helped me was like, you know,
like if you're trying to kick through the line,
especially straight on, like that guy puts his leg out
and the next guy puts his leg out.
And if they put their arms out, it makes like a diamond.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he goes, change the height of your-
Yeah, oh no, he said like, kick it up higher
cause it goes through that gap.
And I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Brett Kamoya did that too.
Yeah, he was a kid.
And he used to fly down and make the tackle.
It was hilarious.
When he was the interim coach at Tigers, man,
he'd come do a bit of kick catcher,
but it's like, when he was kicking to me,
I just picture him like kicking it
and then like in the back of my mind,
I picture him just chasing down the field
and making the tackle.
Don't make me laugh, bro.
With his little feet.
He's got feet this big, don't he?
So it's pretty funny.
Yeah, he's doing right to hit him, eh?
I remember when I used to watch him play,
when I first started paying attention to football
was when Melbourne come in and my dad was my coach
and he's like, you need to play half like this.
And I was watching him.
He touched the ball like five times a set.
His career is so underrated, bro.
Like everyone remembers that moment in origin
and likes to bring that up.
But like, he was keeping Joey out of playing.
Yeah, no, that's why I don't like him, man.
Cause he was keeping Joey out.
I know, but like, so that's my theory about it.
You gotta get the best players on the field
and then you just gotta figure it out from there.
You know what I mean?
I know Joey probably hated playing nine,
but I think his career turned out all right
playing nine for a couple of games.
And then he, after that he was a man.
They played for Australia in 99.
They had a test series against the Kiwis
and I went to watch every game.
I remember it so clearly,
but like Joey was at the nine and he was at the seven.
That's why I remember it.
I was like, fuck.
And then who was six?
Baz and that played six.
They always had big sixes.
Freddie, I think Freddie was a six around that time.
Then obviously Lockyer at the back or had some guys.
Had some good teams, man.
So obviously like you started the game
and you talked about video a little bit earlier.
I was out at Penrith.
They'd just finished field session,
walked past and half the boys in the video room
looking up their training sessions and stuff like that.
Do you enjoy that side of the game?
I used to nerd out on it, bro.
I used to love it.
And all the boys are like, fuck, get me out of video.
I used to like it.
So we do a fair bit of video.
And one thing I noticed about Newcastle straight away
is everyone's keen to go and do individual video
with attack coach, D coach, and then head coach.
And the one thing I admired about our group
is when things wasn't going great,
a lot of people shy away from the video
that you don't want to watch you miss tackle.
You don't want to watch you kick out on the full.
You don't want to watch you intercept.
But we had a group of boys willing to actually go forward
and walk into that, which is pretty hard to do.
As a grown man too,
you don't want to like feel embarrassed
you don't want to feel belittled.
But we had a group that was challenging themselves every day.
And then you got an app on your phone.
I don't know if it was around huddle when you were around.
So we got a bloke that just sends it on the huddle.
You can watch it on your phone anytime, anywhere.
So if I'm going into a video session,
sometimes I'll quickly, I'll rehash.
If I know that Greeny's going to make an attack point,
I'll quickly go watch all our shots.
So if he throws to us and goes,
right, I want the halves to lead this,
I've got a clear vision in my mind
of what I want the session to look like,
how I want my back rolls to run,
if my center wasn't tucked,
if I threw a bad pass right,
was that my timing?
Was that the back rolls timing?
And then obviously edge D2,
now it's all about spacings,
getting up high, moving off the line,
dragging your middles through.
So I think as a player these days,
especially in the halves,
you want to be across the whole part of the game.
You want to know the team's game plan,
what your strengths are,
defensively how you can help the team win.
And then you just add your own little bit
onto all three of those things.
And generally you're going to play well.
So you've got to nerd out on it
if you play seven for sure.
Yeah, I think you have to.
Cause like when I was playing,
it was more so like group education
and Ivan was big on video too.
So like we didn't really have all that individual stuff.
It's changed so much.
I think it's so much better.
I'm not massive on writing heaps of stuff down.
So I'll write down key points
and I'll take in what the coach is saying.
And then I won't read too much before a game.
I feel like for me personally, I'm a visual learner
and I want to have it all in my head
before I get to the ground.
I open a book and read through the week's worth
of what we want to do.
I feel like I would freak myself out.
Have I got everything?
Whereas I just now try now the key points
that the coach has given us as a team this week.
And then I'll go in and have an attack focus with greening,
a defocus with rush.
And then I'll just go from there.
And then the middle just do their job,
the backs do their job
and it all kind of flows really.
How do you find the balance
between like being by pass first type of half of running?
Cause I feel like you run at the right times.
Like that was something I always struggled with.
Like where do you find that balance?
So like at the Tigers, bro,
like I was having,
I had a game against Newy,
we got slapped by 40 and I ran for like 210 meters
and I was taking pointless, pointless carries.
Like, so I went from as a kid,
always a runner first,
always like show and go,
try and do stuff for myself.
Went to the Roosters,
I became a bit of a robot,
a bit like pass first,
not too much running.
When I went to the UK,
I said to myself on the plane,
I was like, I'm going back to,
I'm running first.
I want to be a runner first.
I want to be a threat with the footy,
use my body type,
I was running for like 24 times a game,
pointless, pointless runs, bro.
So my stats would be one try assist,
29 carries, everyone's freaking out over the carries.
So like, it was almost like stat padding in a way.
And I was, I was thinking after the games,
like I had 29 runs or 24 runs, whatever it was,
but they were shit runs.
And then I got to a point where I went to Wigan,
I played with Tommy Little while I was playing second
receiver where I had a guy that could play on the footy
for me, do all the organizing,
but I still wanted to nail my kicking game,
nail my ball playing.
And he, and he just kind of helped me with like,
he's like, there's no point in running at a set straight
line and taking a hit up for the sake of it.
Whereas now I still come back again.
I was taking pointless runs at the Tigers.
And then I took a step away and I work with green.
He's like, well, if you're playing on the footy
and you're going to get a heap of touches,
a lot of the ball,
a lot of the defense is going to go to where you are,
but then that's when KP comes into it.
If you, if you use him the right way and you don't just
throw him the ball and say, please do something,
Kalen, you actually use him up, decoy, decoy,
go across him a couple of times, bring the defense up.
You get a free look at the center.
Is he going to jam Kalen?
Or is they going to try and work him back off?
I just got a lot of free looks at people
throughout the year.
Whereas a lot of teams,
obviously as you do fly up and try and try and kill him.
You're like, I would play soft, short to Fitzy.
Right, the center's coming.
Tunnel ball, go past the center.
Then the center's like, oh, he's got me on a short ball.
He's got me on a tunnel ball.
If I just fly up past the line again,
I'm putting a lot of pressure on my half.
And as a half, you're like to your center,
mate, stop isolating me with this big prick.
Like stay in the line.
So I was trying to manipulate defenses that way.
And then once people thought he's just going to pass,
pass, pass, and it's time to show and go,
you know what I mean?
Test the line out.
Yeah, I heard you say two people,
Greeny and Tommy Lillawai.
I've played with guys that played with both those guys.
And Louis Brown's a great example.
He goes, they're the two smartest guys
I've ever met in football.
Blake Green's intelligence, like I had him,
sorry, I was with him at Manly when he was a 5'8".
And I knew he was smart, but he, attack wise,
he's the smartest bloke I've ever been around in my life.
And he does it in a real way.
Like Greeny's a footy nerd, but he's also like,
let's go have a coffee, bro.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like he's real energetic and he reads the room so well, bro.
Like we could walk in and we could be flat
and he will just at the click drop of the hat,
bang, nail a joke.
And it'll bring everyone up.
Or if everyone's too high and a bit ahead of himself.
So he's very good at like, you're not that good
We need to nail this.
And he's very relatable.
He only retired what, four years ago.
So like, he's still fresh and relatable to players too.
And then Tommy, Tommy over in Wigan, man,
was unbelievable to play with.
Man of few words on the field.
But when he spoke, bro, you listen,
because like he's out here smacking six foot four back rollers.
He can put shots on, aye.
Best pound for pound hitter I've ever seen, ever seen.
Ezra Mann might be able to give him a go at the moment.
I'm trying to think of who else can hit.
But like, in terms of being half,
no one wanted to run at him.
Over in Super League, people would be like,
they'd be running the lead on him.
No, no, no, at the back, at the back.
Just praying not to get the ball.
I remember we played him and I was catching the ball
and he threw it off to the prop
and usually the half's like cruising out on the wing.
He was at three, man, coming up,
like trying to put on shots.
Yeah, you're like, usually you spot the half
and most people are just like, oh, stay away from him.
You could tell him from all the way, this tall too.
And it's the angry eyebrows too.
They used to crack me up.
His laugh gets me as well, man.
But yeah, he's gonna be a good coach, bro.
You could always tell he was gonna be a coach.
So he's already in that space
and I reckon he'll be in there for a long time, man.
What's the goals for this year, bro?
I know that's very...
I know everyone says that, but do you believe that?
I genuinely believe we can, yeah.
I think we've got evidence now that what we,
that we wanna do works, the way we play works.
I know we've lost a couple of boys.
We've lost one of the best wingers in the comp.
Yeah, I know you're a real supporter.
We lost Fitzy who nailed his role perfectly
for us last year,
but I believe in the pieces that we got too.
Like, I think a lot of players in our team are underrated.
Like if you go through our back line,
like we've obviously got
a superstar at the back,
but then you've got blokes like Bradman Best
who just resigned, which is great for our club,
who is one of the best centers in the comp.
I think he proved at origin level
that he's gonna be a rep player for many years.
We've got games there.
I doubted him, eh?
Like, I don't know why.
Like, it sounds so stupid now.
Well, I think a lot of people doubted him
because he's been sort of in and out of first grade
because of injuries.
He had a bit of a bad injury run at the start of his career.
He had a bad dislocated elbow.
I think he hurt his ankles a few times too.
So he hadn't had a clean run
and last year he was dominant in games.
I think if you watched our games back,
the games, especially that we won,
Kalen would always get the rap rightfully so
because he would be the icing on the cake
for a lot of huge plays.
But Bradman's work out of the backfield and stuff.
And then if he gets half a gap,
it's see you later, bro, you know what I mean?
I think like you look at Gags as well.
He's still an origin player.
I don't care what anyone says.
If he gets picked for Queensland this year,
he'll do a fantastic job.
Greg Marsview, we've got something in him
that no one else in the comp has.
No one can carry the ball like Greg.
Brian Toto, I don't want to disrespect him.
He does it every week for Pemref,
but he's body types like that.
But Jack's, mate, like I've never seen anyone
built like that low to the ground.
So he gives us something that only a few people have.
So like your Toto is him.
And then like, you've looked at our pack.
We've got two like world-class boys in the staffs there.
Leo Thompson's world-class, Adam Elliott.
Who, I always think clubs need a guy.
And like, when I say guy, when they run out on the field
and you're on the defensive side,
like you look up and Roosers, they got Jared.
Back in the day, Souths had Sammy.
As, who's your guy?
We've got a couple, bro.
Like I reckon when they're on, Daniel.
Daniel for us is that big alpha.
Like he's the big, like.
Cause I know, I know his carry's good
and I know he's a big boy, but like,
are you looking at him going like,
fuck, is he going to bang me?
He's had a few niggles, which I think he's sorted now.
So I think he won our player of the year in 2021, I think.
Don't get me wrong, those boys are elite.
But like, you know, the guy who's a little bit tapped.
Mitchie Barnett was like.
He might be too tapped.
But look, in terms of alpha in our team,
I reckon Daniel, Daniel leads the way in that space for us.
But the one coming through for us is Leo Thompson.
He, him playing all this rep footy for New Zealand
and the all-stars and stuff like that.
I think he's going to come back again, a better player.
Like he took his experience hanging around with Fish
and Moses and Nelson and that, back to our pre-season.
And you can tell he went from here to here.
And then I reckon when he comes back from all-stars,
he's going to be here.
And he's in our leadership group now, bro.
A man of like few words, but he has that spark in his eye
that you know, that when he steps in.
He's that one guy on our team.
It's like, that's like fishing out there.
Cause they don't say much.
Like him and Yoda.
They're the scariest people.
They're the scariest people, bro.
The ones that are like unassuming and don't talk a lot.
And I don't want to compare him to Fish
because Fish is arguably the best prop in the comp.
But I reckon Leo's got the makings of being 2.0,
hopefully for us.
What about variations in full packs, body shapes?
Cause a lot of people don't realize this.
Like I looked at the dragon.
A couple of years ago when Norman was playing there,
all their forwards were kind of like the same build.
Like they're almost like a cookie cutter
and you get in a rhythm of tackling those.
That's spot on bro.
So you got the variation there.
Like you had Fitzy, who was kind of tall,
running one of the toughest lines in the game.
Then you've got Frizz, who's solid and built
and like can bounce around.
You know what I mean?
The rock, he's a rock.
So how important is that for like a seven?
Cause like being a half, like we've got,
so we've got, we've got a good mix this year.
We've got Jed Cartwright,
A big, big human who can play back row.
We've got Frizz, who is thick, athletic, robust.
Kaipis Paul, as I spoke about.
Six foot seven, long rangy, big upper body.
Dil Lucas, who's like compact, fast, good feet.
So for me, knowing how to use all them to isolate
an opposition three man is really important.
But I think in our pack, we call them the twin towers.
We've got the two staffs that are large, massive.
Then you got Leo Thompson,
who's a bit lower to the ground.
Adam Elliott's kind of in between.
Then you got the gigantic,
the back rower, you got the athletic back row.
So like our whole forward pack are different heights,
which is, which is big for us.
And then we've got other blokes in our pack,
like Matty Croker, who's another 13,
who's very low to the ground and.
He had a good year last year, right?
Look, he's, he was one of our unsung heroes, Croke.
So I'll give him a shout out.
He loves the podcast space.
But nah, he's, he's been really, really good again.
He's, he's one of them guys that can play tough
for the middle and play that front row role.
Or he can, he can play that sort of like 13 link role.
So he's been impressive for us.
We've got a lot of boys that,
we've got a lot of depth now,
especially in the back row position, which is.
You kind of need it too.
That's exciting, man.
Yeah, you do, you do.
Cause if you lose one, you don't want to rely on one.
Like last year we had Fitz,
who was unbelievable for us on that left edge.
And then Dil Lucas went in and played,
I remember in every game he played,
but Fitz just had that style that suited the way
we were playing that year.
So now we've got all the boys having a pre-season
under that system.
That's going to help us.
Cause he went from being a center Dil,
midway from the year to back row.
So he was still learning the process.
So we played a little bit different with him there,
but we'll go back to that same way now that.
Had a beer with Dil at Beachy last year.
Yeah, he loves the beers, doesn't he?
Yeah, he loves the beers.
He does well with the women too.
He's hanging out with the John's boys.
Yeah, he loves the John's boys.
Bro, what do you, like,
obviously you look at the game at a very broad perspective.
What do you like about the NRL at the moment?
And two part question, what do you think can change?
That's a good question, bro.
I like the way the game's becoming not so structured.
It's structured, but we're getting back to that
freestyle of football.
Like, don't get me wrong.
Every team has a foundation of how they want to play.
We want to get to this point.
We want to isolate this defender.
But at the same time,
we've got blokes just taking wide threes,
wide twos, two on twos down short sides,
where there's a lot more ad-lib football in it.
So it's bringing back the smaller guy too.
But our bigger guys are getting a lot fitter
and churning out a lot more minutes,
getting way more stats.
And I love the exposure the game's getting at the moment too.
I mean, players are taking their sort of,
their own profile,
and doing more things with it.
I know you're big on that,
and you're one of the leaders in that space.
But I think you can see blokes like,
I think Reecey Walsh has got 400K followers.
I think Kalen's close to that.
Nathan would be close to that.
Jerome, Bizzo, all them boys are close to that.
And they've started their own clothing company,
I think, Jerome and that.
So I think the exposure the game's giving individuals,
and we've got heroes and villains.
That's sort of coming back.
I like that a lot of people are comfortable
with not being exactly loved by every other fan base.
I think we need to have that kind of like,
when someone comes to Newcastle,
we want the crowd to not exactly love the team,
but it's always cool watching a player run out
and getting booed, and they deliver a performance.
Maybe not against Newcastle,
but a player that every other team loves to hate.
And I think we're getting that back too,
which is, it brings a storyline back into the game.
We're not like the NFL where someone's going to call out,
like a DB's not going to call out an offensive player
and be like, I'm going to go at him,
and I'm going to suck the quarterback 10 times,
I'm going to come for his neck.
We're not going to ever be like that, but.
Do you reckon we could?
It's just not, not, not.
It's not the Australian way.
Well, it's not going to be me anyway, that's for sure.
I won't be starting that off.
I don't need any battles, especially one-on-one battles,
but I reckon there was something with the origin
a couple of years ago.
Wasn't it the Senators were going at it?
I think Senators,
but probably Senators and props are probably the only two.
That's the only one, yeah.
Yeah, I'd love to see props come out.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
I'd love to see it too,
because I don't have to worry about it.
I just jog past them and do a good tackle.
Just push up, eh?
But yeah, bro, like I love the way the game's,
becoming a bit more free flowing
and not block play for block play.
I know, like with the obstruction rule,
it's hard to run a good genuine block now
with all the different variables on that.
And then I love the exposure the game's getting
and players taking accountability for their own profile
and using that to, not just gain money or like fame
or anything like that.
They're actually using it to their advantage
for business ventures and stuff like that
outside of footy, which is cool.
Yeah, and the cool part is like,
the weird part is like, it's probably that,
I said this in the pen of chat, I never made it online,
but like Nathan and Clary's Instagram profile
is bigger than Penrith's and I know Latrell's are similar.
Reece, he's got more followers in New South Wales.
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, yeah, so it's probably the first time
in regular league history where personal brands
are starting to become a lot more bigger.
Who do you support?
And you said LeBron, and I always thought LeBron
was the like start of that when he went to Miami
and fans follow him and they go to Miami
and he goes back to Cleveland and the Lakers.
I think that's the way sports is gonna be right now
where they follow individuals more so than teams.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Because we haven't got that lock side
like we spoke about at the start
with England where you're born and raised
and it comes from the family bloodline.
My dad stood here, so we stand here.
Yeah, look, I grew up on the South Coast in Wollongong
and there was more like Knights, Roosters, Tigers,
Raiders supporters than there was Dragons supporters,
which is crazy to me.
Well, that's crazy.
Like a one town club should have more supporters
where obviously it might've changed now.
I haven't been there for a long period of time.
And then I would go to Newcastle
when everyone loved Newcastle.
They walk around with Newcastle jerseys on, Newcastle hats.
You get people stopping you at a cafe,
can I buy you a coffee?
No, no, it's all right.
I can get it, I appreciate it.
I'll get you one.
But yeah, no, I agree with that for sure.
I agree with that for sure.
Yeah, what don't you like about the NRL?
Oh, I don't know.
I don't know, bro.
Like I'm a purist man.
Like I love the game, man.
Like, oh, I'm a student of it.
I love everything about it.
Like there was no plan B for me.
So like, there's not really anything in the game
that I'd look at you and go, oh, I hate this.
Like I have this joke with our D coach, Rory Costa,
Jason, like I'm not a massive fan of wrestling.
I'll be the first to put my hand up.
He'll go, who doesn't want to do this?
I'd love not to do this, mate.
But I also know the feeling I get
after having a successful session.
So I'm like one of them weird blokes that'll be honest.
Mate, I'd prefer not to do this, obviously.
But I get it done, I'm like, fuck, I'm glad I did that.
So there's nothing really in the game.
Maybe the media scrutiny,
like how hard they go for some individuals, I hate that.
A lot of those guys I've played with coming through as a kid
and I've seen them grow and I know what they're like
as people, I know what they're like as family.
Family, men, what they do for their community.
And then all of a sudden, because they're themselves
or they play the game a certain way
to how a journalist wants them to,
they get the free shot at them, I don't like that.
Yeah, there was always one guy a year, eh?
Like Latrell Jerome's probably the guy at the moment
that gets the clicks.
Corey's been that guy, he was the guy for a bit, so.
Yeah, but you look at them away from football
and you get to know the person, the dad, the brother,
the whatever, and they're some of the best people
you'll ever meet.
And they're role models for their community.
But yet we want to constantly target them
and write stories about them year on year
to try and get more clicks because of their personal brand
is bigger than the media outlet, you know what I mean?
And like some people take it too far, man.
There's some journos that take it too far with individuals.
It almost makes it personal, which I don't like.
They've got the right to write a story, no doubt.
And I've got a good relationship with a lot of journalists.
Funny enough, they've hammered me for years,
but I've built a relationship with a lot of them
because you do need them
at certain points for sure, but.
It is part of the game now, isn't it?
Like when I was coming through, there was people like,
nah, don't talk to him, we hate him.
But at the same time, bro, you're going to need them eventually.
And they're not all bad people.
It's like that, yeah.
They're not all bad people, mate.
They've got to do a job.
But I just think sometimes the stories
you're so far fetched you get a click.
I don't like that.
Yeah, so Newcastle going to win the competition.
What's your personal goals?
Just to improve on myself as a person,
as I touched on at the start
and have a better year than I did last year.
I was happy with the improvements I made
from when I was at the Tigers.
I feel like I had a decent year.
I feel like my year as an individual got better.
I just want to keep improving every year, never.
How do you improve as a player?
Yeah, just probably like nailing my role within the team
even better than what I did last year.
Knowing who I'm playing with, what their strengths are,
how they like the footy, what they expect of me.
One little thing I'll just give to you
that you could probably hold me accountable for
throughout the year is probably my push.
Like I'll probably get a bit carried away
with trying to make sure everyone else
knows their job and missing
what's actually happening in front of me.
So when Kalen's making these breaks,
instead of having just the wingers,
it'd be good for one of us halves
to sort of push up the middle
and get a couple more walkovers.
Yeah, you got the next place set up though.
Coach always goes, where were you?
I was like, oh, it would have been a grouse flavor.
I had a coach once say one time
that the easiest way to get your name in the paper
is push up through the middle.
Exactly right bro.
Terry Lamb made a career out of doing
one of the great five eights.
But yeah, be a better person, be a better teammate,
but then just be a better player.
So as I said, like push on every play.
I want my defense to be rock solid on an edge.
I'm a pretty big body for a half.
So I've got no excuse not to make tackles.
And then, yeah, for me,
I want to like get into some stuff away from football,
what that looks like, I'm not too sure.
But there's definitely a side of me
that is interested in like delving in different things.
Maybe if I'm failing at something away from football
to learn lessons, to get better at it
from the next time I want to do it.
But yeah, those are probably the key things I want to do.
Oh, last thing you've sort of touched
on mental health a little bit.
What mental health issues have you gone through?
Yeah, I didn't want to come on
and make the Potter sob story.
So I'm glad we spoke a lot about footy bro,
but like, yeah, I got clinically diagnosed a week ago
with low grade depression, OCD and anxiety.
So I'm on medication for that now.
And I'm not saying that for everyone to come out
and pat me on the back and give me a hug,
but I lost a mate.
Sorry, when you got that, when you got diagnosed with that,
was that like kind of like relief?
Like having that label to you or did you feel at home?
So I've always known there had been something wrong.
I reckon from maybe the age of 14, I reckon I always knew.
And I've got no excuse for what's happened in my life.
I'll take full accountability.
But parts of that has been an issue for me
with relationships, getting in trouble,
making like impulsive decisions.
That's definitely been part of it.
But I'd never had the courage to sit down in front of someone
and ask for help, literally reach out and go, bro,
like, can you actually help me?
About two months ago I did that
to the welfare manager at the Knights.
I rang him one night and I said, I need your help.
And he didn't ask any questions.
He just said, what do you mean?
And the tone of my voice, I think made him go,
oh shit, like this kid actually needs some help.
My partner pushed me to getting some help as well.
And then I spoke to my coach
and he put his arm around me and said,
I'll do anything for you.
And then the Knights have been brilliant for that process,
put me onto someone and yeah, got clinically diagnosed.
So for me, I was walking around thinking I had something wrong
like, oh, I'm a bit different in this circumstance
or in this situation.
I act different to 20 other blokes.
Really, there's nothing wrong with me.
I just needed a bit of help.
And yeah, I'm glad I did it.
I lost a mate to suicide, Regan Grieve,
who was an up and comer at the Cowboys when we were 17.
And I always think like, if he reached out for some help,
how different obviously his family life would have been.
He could have been playing out of his mind.
He could have been playing NRL.
We could have been playing against each other as mates,
living the dream.
But I always look back on that moment and go,
I want to hopefully get through to someone
that might be struggling.
And as I said, me saying that to you isn't a pat on the back
or I don't want any sympathy for it.
I just want people to know that it's actually all right
to say you need some help.
And then when you get some help,
your life completely changes.
I've only been on the tablets I've been on for four days,
but I can already feel like I'm getting up in the morning
and there's a spring to my step like, all right,
let's go attack the day.
It's not so much about writing goals down
or get out of bed and have a smile on your face.
It doesn't work like that.
You've got to work on yourself constantly.
And yeah, I'm doing that.
What's harder, depression or anxiety?
Well, I didn't think I had depression.
I didn't think that was going to be something that popped up.
I definitely had anxiety.
When I walk into a room full of people,
I, yeah, I'm always looking like.
It felt like that when you walked in.
Yeah, like I'm still doing, I'm like, oh, I wonder what,
but that's the thing you spoke at the start.
Like people have a certain, you know, I'm like, oh, I'm like,
and I'm like running into my hangers here.
I'm like, oh no, no, I feel like I have a certain image of me.
And I know they have that image of me,
so I'm instantly going, geez,
I don't know what he's going to think me.
Is he going to like shake my hand?
Do you think he's going to say, hey bro, how're you going?
So yeah, that's probably the hardest thing.
And letting my wall, letting my guards down,
letting people in.
Like there's plenty of opportunity where people want to help me
with other things besides football.
And I've always put my guard up and they're probably going,
well, fuck him if he wants to act like a snob, which I'm not.
I was just a bit nervous or a bit anxious
to see what they were going to say to me.
i probably would have had a lot more opportunity away from 42 so yeah i'm glad i'm sort of breaking
that down and um hopefully there's anyone watching that's on the on the fence about doing it because
they're scared of what people are going to think of them um they're embarrassed to say that they
have something wrong with them or they need help with something it's probably the better word and
then hopefully that i can be a little bit of just a tiny bit of inspiration for them to go out and
ask is it easy is it easier to tell someone you don't know or someone you do know well i just
me and you met an hour ago i told you um i've always been a pretty honest guy like pretty open
with um with all sorts of stuff so for me it's not embarrassing i think it's not embarrassing
because i deep down knew for a long period of time i just needed clarification on that by a
professional and that was a weight off the shoulders yeah when she told me i kind of went
my life sort of starts again now you know i mean like i get to have a new lease on life i get to
uh work on myself sort of i go back every month and see this person and
we've got a list of goals and things like that so yeah no the medication just doesn't fix you
you're not just like boom you're different yeah that helps it helps with your sharpness alertness
but you've got to work on yourself constantly shit crazy um bro i just wanted to thank you
for jumping on oh like i said i had a preconceived notion of you before and glad i got to meet with
you and chop it up and wish you nothing but the best for the year no i appreciate it brother
thanks for having me good on you guys