The Corey Norman Debrief

Hey guys, welcome back to Ebbs and Flows, where we talk about the highs and lows on and off the field.

My guest today, struggling for a guest this week.

I'm feeling.

Nah, see Norms, what's up baby?

Thank you, what an intro man.

Me and Norms never really talked about his football career and he just wants to,

I want to interview him and ask him a few different questions, so I thought we'd bring it in house.

So, best mate, business partner, Corey, what's up baby?

How you going bro?

Yeah, good.

So, obviously we'll just dive straight back into it.

We're talking about what was it like growing up in Benley.

What was it like growing up in those years?

Yeah, look, I grew up in Housing Commission in Eagleby.

It was a bit of a rough place, but in saying that, my mum always, you know, did a good job of,

you know, not letting me be a little street kid type thing.

You know, I was out there a little bit, but not too much.

But yeah, it was a difficult place to grow up,

but I had good friends.

I had a good family as well as, around me as well, so yeah, it made it a lot easier.

What kind of mischief did you used to get up to as a kid?

I've got stories for days, man.

We used to, on the golf course, there used to be like, like this bush and the green was up top and they would have to park their carts down,

like down a little bit further.

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but yeah, they used to jump out and have to walk up and we'd sit in the bush and then we'd go like run in and take their phones and that.

Like just little stuff like that, proper just mischief like that.

Yeah, just stuff like that, bro.

Like little naughty stuff.

Yeah.

Not always, but like just, yeah, that's what we'd do.

Yeah.

So obviously your mum's played a big part in your life and I've got to know her.

Very strong woman.

Yeah.

What's she mean to you?

Yeah, obviously everything.

Obviously, you know, she's a single parent to start off with.

So she's done, you know, a terrific job.

But yeah, she means everything like every other month, like mum would to her son.

She's done a lot for me, obviously.

I remember like when she used to work at Servo, she used to have to do like early mornings.

She used to take me to work and I'd be in the back of the, the back of the Servo there and stuff like that.

So you wouldn't even be allowed there too.

No, no, no.

So we'd have this like little, little TV, set up a little TV for me in the back room and stuff like that.

But yeah, to see her go through what she's been through, you know, to raise me is, is great.

Yeah.

And like you said, she's very, a strong woman, independent woman, doesn't really ask for help too much, which is not good, but, you know, puts her under a lot of stress.

But no, yeah, she's, yeah, I love her.

I remember you telling me a story when I first hung out with you.

Someone was talking shit about you at the pub and she flogged them.

Yeah.

No, no, it was, it was at the skate park.

I think I dropped in, in front of someone and I was only young and he hit me and I was like, oh, sorry, sorry, because I'm not much of a fighter.

Um, and anyway, he, um, pushed me and my mom was in the car and come running around, come running around the fence and grabbed him and started hitting him.

Um, so yeah, so obviously I'm her world and, and, um, yeah, she's, um, she was a bit wild back in her day, but, um, yeah, she's a lovely woman.

She's a good woman.

Yeah.

I remember she always goes, um, you got to watch out for her left hook.

It's a dangerous, dangerous one, but yeah.

Um, obviously known as a football player.

How'd you get playing?

Um, to be honest, um, I've got an older cousin, um, obviously he's five years older than me, DJ, um, just playing in the, going over there, you know, your cousin's house or whatnot, playing when you're younger in the backyard.

And, and he signed up, he was playing, he said, oh, you should come down and play.

So I signed up at, uh, the under sixes at Beanley Lions and, um, yeah, loved it from there.

From day dot?

Day dot, like, yeah, loved it.

Um, I was a little bit bigger then.

A lot of the kids, so, um, they tried to put me up another year, but I wouldn't, my mom wouldn't let me.

So she was, uh, I'm a little baby, so yeah, she wouldn't let me.

So I was always a little bit bigger to maybe under thirteens, maybe then everyone started catching up.

But yeah, from day dot, I loved it.

And, um, it came pretty naturally.

Yeah, it was good.

Um, you sort of recently sort of found out about like your heritage and you growing up without a dad and you said your mom done a great job of doing both jobs.

Uh, what was it like growing up without a dad?

Um, you wouldn't know any different, would you?

Yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, I wouldn't know any different.

Obviously, um, you know, you get friends and they've got dads and that growing up and all that.

But for me, mom did a really good job and, um, I had a lot of my uncles that were around the same type of, uh, around the area.

So I always kind of had a male figure that was in my life, but not a dad, if that makes sense.

So my uncles did a good job.

Um, but yeah.

Yeah, it was, it's all I've known.

It's weird.

Like as you get older, you think about it a little bit more.

Um, I had an opportunity.

Mom was like, I can, you know, reach out and, um, if you want to meet him, you can.

But I just thought, well, it is what it is.

Um, it doesn't bother me now.

Like, you know what I mean?

So it is what it is.

I never felt like I had to meet him or wanted to.

So yeah, it was just.

Has it changed now as you got a little bit older?

Um, yeah, you get a bit more curious about it.

You know what I mean?

Like it would be weird, but I don't know if it happened, it happened.

But if, yeah, if it didn't, it wouldn't bother me to be fair.

So yeah, it is a bit weird.

Yeah.

I feel like I'd go the other way where like, I'd be like, oh, I didn't have in my life.

So I'd be like, fuck that cunt.

Yeah.

You always sort of been like pretty crazy with a lot of things.

Yeah.

So yeah.

Like, I just think anger is not going to change it.

You know, being angry at him, blah, blah, blah.

So, um, yeah, if it happened, it'd be weird if it, I'd love just to see what, what is like.

You know what I mean?

Like.

Yeah.

I just love to see what he's like, what, yeah, what he's about.

Um, but yeah.

So to see if the apple don't fall far from the tree.

That'd be the biggest one.

So, um, yeah.

Um, so how did you sort of progress through football?

Or was this like, was your like childhoods revolved around it?

Were you making rep teams all the way up to Keeper Park?

Were you signed at a young age?

Yeah.

When you reflect back on your childhood and football, like what stories can you tell us?

Um, yeah, look, well, it was just always up mainly lines until I was 14.

But just coming through, um, you could kind of tell I was good, like good at it.

You know what I mean?

It came easy.

Um, you know, from under 12s on, I was making the rep sides.

Um, it did help that I was a little bit bigger than all the other boys, you know, that man

child.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I was making all the, all the, um, all the rep sides and that, but like,

I don't know.

A big one for me is like, cause I don't have a dad.

It's like.

It was.

It was always like when I went to like rep things or what and seeing like players with

their dads, I was like, always wanted to make it without, you know, like a father, like

influence, you know, you hear a lot of fathers have influence in that lower grades, like

who gets in the team or his son's probably not the best player, but he makes the side

type thing.

So for me, it was always that little chip on the shoulder that like, oh, I don't have

a dad, so I'm going to be good.

So you do feel like you had to, it's almost like, you know, in boxing when they say, you

know, the judges make all the decisions, you have to like actually win.

Yeah.

So you just wanted to prove you're actually good enough.

I think that was, I think that was a big part.

And like, even like, even like, I can't really be told what to do.

It's kind of like, I didn't have that father figure.

So I'm like, I'll figure it out by myself.

Like, oh, I've got this far.

So like, I don't really need your advice.

Like looking back now, I'm like my footy career and like, yeah, I'd take a lot of things on

board, but it would always be like.

Oh, I've got here.

So on my own.

So like, I'll just do it on my own.

Like, you know, you hear a lot of, especially halves go to, you know, experience halves

or halves out of the game and just get advice on that.

I never really did that.

Or I never reached out to someone that could be like, oh, could you mentor me or stuff

like that?

I'm not saying a lot of halves do that, but looking back now, I probably should have,

but I've always just had that little bit of, I've got this far on my own.

So I'll be alright.

Almost like me versus the world sort of vibe.

Yeah.

And nothing that hectic, but I just, it's always been a little bit like, yeah, I've

got this far on my own, so I'll be sweet type thing.

So that's kind of cool.

Yeah.

And it all stemmed back from the not having an old boy and especially seeing it when I

was younger, you know, kids rock up with their dad, the dad gives them a pep talk, blah,

blah, blah.

Yeah.

And I've got my mom talking to me.

He's probably never played sports in her life.

Yeah.

Do this, do that.

All right.

Yeah.

Mom, right.

Oh, thanks.

Love ya type thing.

But, um, that's where I think it stems back from.

Yeah.

Just back in those younger days.

Yeah.

Cause like I reflect when you talk about your childhood, I reflect back on my childhood.

My dad was my coach and like me and Quade, we had him all the time.

Yeah.

Like he was hard on us and me and Quade always talk about him.

Like that's the reason why we've done okay in life.

Yeah.

Of course.

And had that sort of discipline.

Yeah.

You've made it the other way.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

To be fair, like, like you said, that discipline things are probably a big, um, a big thing

that I kind of didn't have growing up as well.

My mom trying to let me do what I want within reason.

And I think if I hadn't like a, a dad there kind of pull you in line, discipline you as,

as they do, you know what I mean?

It could have been a little bit different, especially my character growing up.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

You know what I mean?

So.

Yeah.

And like, I think about it, like when we got a bit older and we're going out and stuff

and kind of once the autopilot goes on, like I'd always go, nah, you just go, let's keep

going.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

And back of my mind, subconsciously, I think if I, if I go home, I'm probably going to

get a heart attack.

Yeah.

So, and my mom, my mom used to, she never used to, oh, she used to get up me.

She never used to flog me.

Like used to throw everything else, but, but me, but say, like you said, you would have

got, you would have got hidings, you know what I mean?

From the old man.

But yeah, so.

When did you sign your first contract?

Um, I think it was when I was 16.

It would have been at the Bronx for the, um, they had a senior academy type thing.

So.

Did you get any money for that?

Um, no, we got, um, joggers, Nike, cause that was Nike.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

With Nike.

So we got the Nike joggers, um, boots.

Maybe I got a little bit.

I can't remember a couple of thousand maybe, but, um, yeah, that would have been my first

one at the Broncos.

Yeah.

Who was your, who was coming through at that time and who was coaching you?

Was it, was that Paul Green?

Yeah.

He did, Paul Green, he did the, um, junior, uh, senior academy.

Um, but I had Jarrell, Josh Hoffman, Billy, um, who are Dane Gay Guy, Dale Copley, all

that, all that type group were in that senior.

Um, senior academy when we were coming through.

Yeah.

So was there a plan always to go to Keebra or did you get picked up from Keebra or like

how does that work?

Um, yeah, no.

So again, uh, my cousin that introduced me to rugby league, basically he had friends

that went down to, uh, Keebra Park and it was a footy school.

And he said to my mom, put Corey in, um, cause I was going to Windaroo High, my local school.

So it's nothing doing there.

So I was there in year eight.

Yeah.

Um, I was in there year eight for him.

Yeah.

Running a mark.

So, um, and then my cousin's like, yeah, get him down to the footy.

Footy school.

It's like subjects, football, blah, blah, blah.

So I went down there, but apparently they sent me a scholarship in year eight, but I

never got it.

Yeah.

So it was weird.

What, didn't check the mail?

Or mom made it for me?

I don't know.

Mumsie must have threw it away.

They don't want a baby moving away.

But yeah, apparently I got one in year eight, but never got it.

Um, and yeah, so then I went down there and they're like, oh, we, you know, we offered

and I was like, oh, I never got it.

So yeah.

Anyway.

So did you get a scholarship where you ended up having to pay?

No, I just went there.

Oh, okay.

Um, cause I was all, it was either there or Brisbane grandma, the union school.

Um, they were pretty keen as well.

So I ended up cause rugby league was everything.

So ended up going to Keebra park and, um, yeah, was there till year 12.

How was that?

Best.

The best.

You guys love it.

Honestly.

I reckon out of all the schools that struggled to let the high school go, Keebra park would

be right up.

Keebra park would be at the top.

Trust me.

Oh, we had so much fun there.

And, and like, if you're in the footy program and you're just say when you're older and

you're in the A's or if you're in the 15, 16, you're in the top Scott side, like, you

know what I mean?

You're it, you know what I mean?

So it's like those American movies when the football team, like literally like I would

have English and then I'd just be down at the thing shooting hoops with, um, the PE

teacher and stuff like, you know what I mean?

And, and if we're all just sitting around, um, just talking and then a teacher would

come past and she'd be like, Oh, you just meant to be like, nah.

Miss, we've got a spare, like a spare is like a free class.

This is in like year 10.

I think you have one of them.

Okay.

Like we've all got our footy shorts on and our polo.

That was our, our, um, our kit for school.

Um, so yeah, it was just good like that.

We had probably way too much freedom at that young age and yeah, it was just fun, man.

It was good.

When did you have your first bear?

What age?

Oh, I was young.

I was young.

Uh, I would have been like, yeah, I was young.

Uh, like 10 maybe.

Oh shit.

Nine, 10.

Double digits.

Just that's crazy.

But it wasn't like I was sitting there drinking my thing.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like I was like, I was more sneaking it and drinking a bit, but like, I reckon like constantly

probably like 12, 13.

I grew up in a small town too.

Like I started drinking, I was like 14, 15.

And like, to me that felt young.

When I look back now, that's young, but 12 is crazy.

Yeah.

That's, um, that's when the slippery slope happened.

That's when, uh, the old mudslide happened, but yeah, um, yeah, it was, it was pretty

young.

Uh, so you obviously rolled in through like, like you said, you made all the rep teams,

Bronx, strong development system coming through good guys.

What was that period from like end of Kibra to arrive alive to 20s to first grade?

Yeah, it was good.

It's just exciting.

Like back then, you're not, I wasn't, you're not thinking about all that.

Oh, you know, am I going to make it or it's just fun.

Yeah.

Like with, I'm with mates now for the rest of my life that went to that school.

Like we're still really tight.

You're just playing footy with your, with your mates.

Um, but it was, it was an exciting time then too.

Cause you're just having fun as well.

It's footy footy.

You're having fun.

You're young.

Um, but yeah, the arrival live was, when I look back, it was pretty tough.

Actually, we had a pretty good crop coming through, you know, PBC had some really good

players like Rankin, Ryan James, all them top boys that came through there.

But, um, that was cool.

And then.

Cause at Keebra, the thing was kind of to repeat.

Um, so go there again when you're 18 and do school again, and that would get you ready

for twenties, blah, blah, blah.

So that was top of the, that's what a lot of boys did.

They would go there.

Um, yeah, it's a little running joke.

Kenny Edwards was like 25 and still in year 12.

I won't give it to him about that.

Um, nah, that was the thing kind of repeat and then set yourself up and then you'd be

ready to go take on 20.

So, um.

When I left school, I was obviously with the Broncos, um, and I was thinking about

repeating what not.

And, um, yeah, I kind of said, nah, I'll just go play twenties.

Um, and yeah, cause Broncos were growing up with our families like that.

That's what we loved as well.

Broncos.

So it was just like, nah, I'll go play twenties as well.

So did you go to like high school twenties and then straight into first grade or was

that the.

No, I will play twenties and then got the preseason that following that.

Yeah.

And then played round one.

Played round one.

Yeah.

Well, it was like twenties, like obviously made junior kangaroos and going up.

Yeah.

Some pretty good, like New Zealand.

So yeah.

Yeah.

That was good.

Um, again, I feel like that, oh wait, oh nine, um, twenties comp, even maybe oh 10

was really strong still.

Um, so twenties was, um, twenties was it.

That was the best time.

You get the full care, like you're rocking the first grade, like, you know, you're getting

all the polos and stuff like that.

You get a TV game.

Everyone's getting their hair.

It's just thinking you're a first grader already, but that was really fun.

Um, we had a good team as well.

We, um, we went all the way to the prelim and got knocked out by Melbourne, which they

went on and, um, won that one that year.

So yeah, it was good.

It was fun.

Yeah.

I remember Bronx knocked us out the year before.

Oh yeah.

I remember that.

Yeah.

That was a, that was a good game, man.

But that was heartbreaking, man.

Yeah.

Especially like you said, like when you're playing around all your mates and everyone's

got the same ambitions to play.

Yeah.

You don't really have that feeling again, do you?

Nah, not really.

Nah.

Cause you go into first grade, these guys are 32, you're rolling in at 18.

Yeah.

And you've got, you're playing with like big dogs, like, so you're not thinking that, but

like you said, you play with your friends and everyone wants to be at the same, like

the next level and a lot of people go different ways after 20.

So yeah.

Um, how did you deal with the, obviously all to where your debut, that was crazy.

Like, I didn't know who you were.

I mean, what's your debut and you kind of just blew up on the scene, kind of just rolling

into the Broncos, big name club, Suncorp stadium, round one.

Yeah.

It was good.

Yeah.

It was good, man.

Cause even like, um, the pre-season when I went in, obviously I wasn't expecting that.

Like just went in there, enjoying my time.

That was a star-studded team.

Like honestly, my idols were in there, you know what I mean?

A lot of players in there that I looked up to for ages.

Um, so I was in there just enjoying being in there as an 18 year old, you know what

I mean?

Yeah.

19 year old.

So it was good.

Um, pre-season I was training really well.

I remember, what's that game where, um,

Offside touch.

Offside touch.

And you've got to follow the same person you can't link off.

First one got put with Darren Lockyer.

Put me with the fit in it, put me with the go.

Oh, so I'm just like running around, but like, again, that was, that was cool.

Um, um, but yeah, got put with him, but that was a laugh and yeah.

What'd you learn from Locky?

Oh, look, I was saying this the other day.

Um, probably the, how precise he was with everything.

Like I probably didn't take that on board, but when I think back now, just how precise

he was, like even like almost coming in at the same time every day for training, you

know what I mean?

Like the way he prepped himself for training, the way he moved on the training field, like

when you're young, you're like, oh, this is cool.

But not until you get a little bit older, do you appreciate the way he trained?

Like he played me and like, and like, if people weren't doing the right thing, he would let

them know.

And obviously it's him.

So they would be on.

So, um, yeah, just the way he moved, you always look back and go, he was good, man.

He was the man, just everything was crisp.

Nothing was done half arsed, nothing like it was when I think back, I drove, that's

why those types of players are where they are.

You know what I mean?

So, um, even like if we would have to do Malcolm's or something, he didn't have to, he would

still be in there doing it type stuff.

Like, yeah, it's crazy.

I remember you telling me a story that on days off, like, um, he said, grab all your

young boys and take us for a run.

Yeah.

So, um, that was cool as well.

Again, so involved with the younger boys.

Um, so we'd run on our days off, we'd just go run to a cafe, talk with him, just talk

about whatever.

Bit of life.

We were probably about, yeah, 19, 20 then it was a group that was coming through.

Was he trying to live through you guys?

Maybe.

I don't want to, I don't want to say anything for Lachie, but maybe, um, but yeah, just

have a yarn.

And just, you know, type of just kind of tell us what it's like to, to get to be a regular

first grader, blah, blah, blah, all that type stuff.

And again, like, like I've said, it's good in the moment, but you don't really take it

on board to get a little bit off.

That's me anyway.

But yeah, it was just unreal thinking about that.

He did that with us.

And so you usually knock up a couple of K's in the off days though.

Yeah.

Easy.

It was probably, uh, probably two and a bit there, two and a bit back.

It was nothing crazy.

It was nothing hard.

It was just.

Yeah.

Just him doing him and taking us about, was he like super technical when he was breaking

down football players?

Cause I'll give you an example.

Like when I come in and Stacey was a halfback and like, you know, I'm a bit of a nerd.

I'm like, I would like to learn.

Yeah.

I like to ask questions.

Yeah.

Probably the opposite, opposite to you.

Like I wanted to take on everything.

Yeah.

And I used to ask him questions and he goes, ah, just like, just do whatever.

Yeah.

I'm not you.

Yeah.

That.

Yeah.

I think with Lachie too, um, he'd give you a little bit, but he'd never come in and tell

you what to do.

And to be fair.

I was always.

Too scared to ask him, but that was, it's not that I didn't want it.

I just was like a bit always nervous around him.

Um, but yeah, he would more give you a few pointers here and there, but he'd never come

in and do this, do that.

Like it was never on top of your type thing.

So, which I feel like is probably a good way to do it.

Yeah.

Cause I feel like if you get guys, older guys telling you what to do all the time, you kind

of get off those dudes there when you're a bit younger.

Well, you go to Lachie and then you've got Justin Hodges Hodges, which, which makes you

nervous in another way, because if you don't get it right.

It doesn't matter if it's your first day as an 18 year old, you know, he'll tell you

to go, you know, get F'd and get off the field.

If you're not going to perform at this level, we'll just beat it then, or if you're not

up to this level, beat it, which is a good in a way.

But I think that type of, that type of way doesn't work these days.

You know what I mean?

Like, yeah.

I remember we were playing offside touch again and he threw gags of ball and it hit him in

the back of the head.

He goes, you can get off type thing.

And that was just normal.

If you, if you did a kick to him, a little kick across field and it wasn't basically

in his chest, you're shit, get him off his rubbish type thing.

But again, that builds a bit of character back then.

That's what it was.

Yeah.

You had to earn a lot of respect before you got to mingle with them guys as, as well.

So yeah.

I feel like, um, like, uh, like a lot of the Bronx boys would come in.

So, like, um, like that was, that was, um, like that was, I think, uh, the first one

that came up to me when we were playing.

I thought it was a bit of a, um, sassy.

But, but it was a, it was, uh, it was a big, big, big deal because it was, it was like,

uh, it was just, it was, it was just so good.

Uh, the good, the good, the good.

Yeah, man.

Great.

Everyone loved the beer too, but you had to back it up.

It was like, if you drink and we train and you train shit

or whatever, you went out, like, see you, bud.

You get weeded out real quick.

Or if you didn't drink, it was like, can we trust this guy?

That's it, eh?

Jakey Turfancy, if somebody wants to, I don't repeat it,

but fuck, it made me laugh.

Along those lines.

Yeah, right.

Can we trust this guy if he doesn't drink?

It was like that type vibe.

But no, it was really good days back then.

What was the lay of the land like when you're a rookie coming in

and it's like, you go get the cones and shit like that?

Oh, yeah.

I remember having to go when we would finish gym and that,

if there was no milk for the milkshakes and the smoothies and stuff,

well, on your bike, see ya.

Like, on your bike, get on your bike, do that.

You know, if they told you to do something, you would do it.

If you're at a bar, get a drink, you do it.

Like, you know what I mean?

It was like that.

It's good, eh?

Like, it teaches you discipline.

100%.

You just can't waltz in and just think you got it,

you know what I mean?

But again, like I've said, those days have changed

and it is what it is.

My first team drink with the first grader,

I was officially out of high school too,

and they're like, you're sober driving.

Yeah, sweet.

Yeah.

And they're like, you don't leave until we leave.

Yeah.

Well, I'm just sober in this nightclub just going,

do you want to get on the vehicle with the boys?

Yeah.

I just got hit with the sober driver.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's good.

Good time.

I had a roommate called Benny Teo.

Yeah.

Obviously, like, he was ahead of his time,

the way he sort of moved through his career and didn't,

like, at the time when he was a Kiwi but playing for Queensland

and then moving to rugby.

And chasing deals.

What was he like to live with?

Because I find him super interesting,

even when he talks now, when he talks about interchange rules.

Yeah.

I think he's got a unique perspective on life.

I think he's interesting.

Yeah, he is good.

And he's very witty.

No, he was really good.

Kind of taught me, because the first time I moved out,

he was my first roommate.

So I moved out in 19 up to Brisbane with him.

Kind of just taught me, because obviously,

mum would do everything for me at home.

It'd always be like, you know, if your space is clean,

you know, you feel better.

Or like, if your life's in order, you know,

it's all that type of stuff.

You know, he taught me and a lot of other things.

I always say to him, you got me good, man.

The women, man.

Gift of the gab on the chat.

Yeah, can talk.

He's really good.

But yeah, Benny's very intelligent, very calculated too.

Like, you know, just doesn't do stuff to do it.

You know what I mean?

So, yeah, I still keep in contact with Benny.

He's a good lad.

I remember you telling me a lesson.

About when you ran out of money for petrol and you just...

Yeah, yeah, because I was trying to buy a greyhound.

I was trying to buy a greyhound with the boys

and I ran out of money and like, I hit him up.

He was like, nah, well, I walked a train and like,

like, if I give you money,

you're just going to keep doing it type thing.

So, yeah, that was back in the day

when I was trying to buy greyhounds and retire at 21.

But that, like, stuff like that, he was very like,

like, he was good at like, life stuff like that.

So, yeah, it's a good little lesson.

You'd wake up early and take off to training.

Yeah, take off to train.

Like, we didn't live too far from training,

but it was like...

It was enough.

Yeah, it was enough, like, literally.

But yeah, it was good as well.

What about on the field?

Obviously, you guys were star-studded,

had a lot of talent come through.

What was those first three, four years of your...

You'll be there a bit longer, won't you?

Yeah, well...

Yeah, it would have been three, four years.

Five years, yeah.

Yeah, it was good.

I played a few games my first...

I think I played, like, 11 maybe?

11 games.

Just...

I don't know.

Like, back then, like,

not saying, like, I did it purposely,

but if you didn't turn up for a game,

you'd just look around and go,

okay, we're all right.

You know what I mean?

Like, so, that type of way,

probably...

You know you could probably slack off a bit

with the star-studded team,

but it was...

It was fun.

It was enjoyable.

There was a lot of learning there.

And I was, like you said,

I was there for four years.

But then when I left to go down to Parra,

I think I did a little bit of growing up football-wise.

Obviously,

wasn't in a star-studded team down there

and kind of switched over.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

How did that come about?

Like, the sort of coming down to Parramatta,

like, did you have different offers at the time?

Were you going to let go from the Bronx?

What was happening?

No, the Bronx...

Well,

2012,

I played the full season there at 5A

and then they got Princey in.

Yep.

2013,

Princey was there.

He signed for two years,

I think it was.

I got pushed back to fullback that year.

And again,

being young,

you think you just,

oh, I played there last year.

It's my spot type thing.

And he was there.

So, I got pushed back

and I was like,

oh, I don't want to play fullback.

Again, like,

thinking I've got a choice,

like I've done something.

You know, when you're young,

it's just like,

I think back now,

I'm just like,

what were you thinking?

Yeah.

And then we finished that year off.

I don't think it was a good year.

And I thought Princey was going to be there again.

And Parry came to me.

Ricky Stewart was there at the time.

And he said,

you're my 5A.

You're it.

You're my 5A.

So, that's what I want to hear.

And kind of...

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah, I went there

and I kind of agreed to it.

And then,

obviously,

it came out.

And then,

I think 2013,

I finished my year

back at Wynnum full time.

So, I was coming in

and then

I was going to the Normanby on Sundays.

We'd play on Sunday

and then come into train on Monday

and hold the pads smelling of grog.

And Hook goes,

nah, enough's enough, man.

I think Phil,

the older boy said something too.

Which I understand.

Yeah, fair enough.

Fair enough.

And literally,

I was out there holding pads.

So, it's like,

you're moving on.

Like, what are you actually doing in here?

Like, type thing.

So, I finished my year off at Wynnum

and went down to Parra.

Yeah.

So, obviously,

like a lot of your football

come really great at Parramatta.

What was that like?

And obviously,

you said Ricky Stewart signed you,

but was he there the first year

and then BA was straight on?

Nah, I did my Harry Holt.

So, um...

Were you worried about your position

or anything or...?

Nah.

Brad Arthur came in.

I didn't know anything

kind of about Brad Arthur.

I kind of just knew

he came from Melbourne.

Yeah, he came from Melbourne.

Kind of come from nowhere, eh?

And...

But again,

he kind of rang me

and said like,

oh, I'm a new coach,

but kind of thing like,

you'll be the 5'8 type thing.

So...

Because he was the...

He was the Melbourne's

under-20s coach

when we used to play.

So, he obviously watched me play.

We played against him.

So, he goes,

oh, I know what you're about.

Blah, blah, blah.

And kind of said,

you know,

number six is your jersey.

Obviously,

you're going to have to work for it.

There's a few other players there.

It was me,

Luke Kelly and Chrissy Sandoe

and all that there.

So, obviously,

it's not giving it to you,

but you know what I mean.

It's yours if you work for it

type thing.

But yeah,

got down there.

Ricky left

and got Brad.

What's...

Obviously, Brad's been around

for a while now

and people speak very highly of him.

What was he...

How important was he to you?

Yeah, he was good.

Football-wise,

he was really good.

He was straight up with me.

He'd always challenge me

type thing,

which was good.

He...

I think he kind of took on

the whole

father figure role

with me too.

Like, he'd always...

He'd always look out for me

and not only speak to me

about football,

but just stuff off the field

and all that type stuff.

So,

I think he took on that role

and, I mean,

Brad had a really good relationship.

So,

yeah,

he'd always look after me too.

So...

And some.

Yeah.

So,

you know,

even...

It was a good time there.

We had...

What was like the culture shock,

obviously,

coming from Brisbane?

Big club,

you know what's going on.

You're growing up in Queensland.

Yeah.

Getting plugged in Western Sydney

and the Parramatta fan base.

What was that like?

Yeah.

It was crazy, man.

Because like you said,

Bronx,

we had all the facilities

compared to what I went to

down in Parramatta.

We had a hot, cold sauna.

And I remember

one of my first days,

we went,

got down to Richie Beno

and Brad puts a projector on

and we're watching video

on the back of a toilet

at a junior club.

And I'm sitting there thinking,

what have I done?

I've gone from Versace

to I don't even know what.

We're going,

what's doing?

Anyway,

and then like we rolled out

and he'd bring out the balloon,

the pump up thing for ice baths,

you know,

the pool.

I was just going,

bruh.

But,

but it ended up working out well.

Yeah,

we had a good team.

Well,

we didn't have,

we had a pretty good team.

But yeah,

we had plenty of fun there.

The hang plane,

what was it like playing a film?

Obviously,

in the peak of his powers.

Yeah,

it was good.

It was,

again,

one of those players,

you just sit back

and watch what he does

on the field.

Anyone that's,

you know,

played with Hainsey

or been around Hainsey,

rats,

rats.

But when he switches on,

he knows,

you know what I mean?

Like he's on.

So,

you could tell when he was on

and when he wasn't.

But yeah,

it was good.

And it was disgusting

how good he was.

Exactly.

Like he wouldn't even do weights

or anything

and still be strong,

powerful.

He'd be in there

just going like this

with a band.

But yeah,

it was unreal

to play alongside him.

Even Christy Sandow,

man,

on his day,

one of the best halfbacks

in the game back then,

you know what I mean?

Very talented.

And me and him

had a good relationship.

We had a laugh.

We had plenty of laughs together.

But yeah,

it was good.

The best thing about Para

when we were there,

we played a lot of footy.

We probably didn't have

the squad like the better team,

but we played a lot of footy.

Like I remember Brad saying,

just attack.

Even if we're in our 20

and then work,

for us for a bit.

So yeah,

it was good.

Yeah,

because I remember

we used to play you guys

in that time

and a lot of your shape

was coming off

like very far percentages,

like seven threes

and there was like

far layer line down here

and there was heaps of stuff moving.

That's kind of how they play now,

isn't it?

You guys were a little bit

ahead of your time there.

Yeah,

I don't know.

We just had plenty of footy

and we just wanted to play footy

and we got given the green light.

You know,

some days it would pull off

and some days it wouldn't.

You know what I mean?

But the best thing about Brad,

he'd just still encourage it.

So,

it was good times

Yeah.

What about the peak of your powers?

Obviously,

like a lot of things

were going right on the field.

A lot of things

were going wrong off the field.

What was that year like?

Because that's when I just met you.

Yeah.

You were sort of going through it.

Well,

you were going through it.

Yeah.

I was kind of around.

Was it weird being able to?

It was crazy.

Like you could just go out

and party for two days

and rock up and kill it.

You know what I mean?

But that's the thing

I always think back now

is like

no matter how crazy

my life was off the field,

as soon as I got

to footy

or on the training path,

I wouldn't think about

anything else but football.

Like I was just,

it must have been

I was just so zoned in

at that time

or something.

You know,

when the boys

had them break out years,

it just like,

yeah,

no matter how crazy

it was off the field

or whatever was happening

in my life,

as soon as I started

playing football,

like it was,

everything was sweet

type thing.

Look back now,

it was pretty crazy

and it probably

wasn't the best thing.

You know,

you get to a certain point

in your career,

it's like,

all right,

like do I keep

bobbling on like this

or do I knuckle down

and go the other way?

So I probably just

kept bobbling on

just doing what I'm doing.

Again,

thinking I'm going

a lot better

than what I really was.

Yeah.

You do,

like even like

I've never played

in the form

that you're in

during that time,

but even when you do

start to play NRL,

you have this kind of

mentality or ego

around you that like

you almost feel

invincible,

especially when things

are going well

and like you were,

like how many points

were you off winning

the telly in the end?

I got like,

I got suspended

for eight games

and I had to pick up

eight points

or something like that.

You know what I mean?

Yeah,

I know.

Like I think back now

like that kind of,

like that kind of hurts,

especially with that,

that dinner,

how innocent it was

and back then

I didn't know

the type of people

like,

that were there.

Yeah.

They were footy fans.

They were just asking football,

blah, blah, blah.

You know what I mean?

So it was crazy

to,

for all that

to unravel pretty quickly

and like you're saying,

the footy I was playing

like that was

not only

for me,

but for the club

and

to back that up,

we lost our points

and we were sitting

like six or five

as well.

We were flying,

you know what I mean?

And I remember

just going to train

and it was a circus,

man.

Circus.

It's like every day

we were there

and then it just seemed

like it was all me

and I'm like,

boys,

like,

I'm so sorry.

So sorry.

And then the salary cap

stuff came

and then it's just like,

it was a bit of a slap

in the face,

especially to Brad,

the coaching staff,

the club,

where,

you know,

14,

15,

we missed out on the eight

by two points.

Then we started building

that 16

and then all that happened.

Like the club

had been gone

poor previously

and then 16,

we start finding our feet.

We won the nines

comp at the start

of the year.

And,

you know,

it was good,

you know,

when Para has success

in the,

in NRL,

you know,

everything's,

you know,

kind of gone good

with all that type

of club out there.

So it was a bit of a slap

in the face for all them

and all that type of stuff

and to be fair,

I didn't think it was

going to be that serious

because I didn't look

at myself as a top player

like that,

as in like,

oh,

I'm that good

that it's going to be

that effective

or that much media

type stuff.

See,

I think that's where

I've got myself

in a bit of trouble

with before

as I didn't realise

the magnitude

that I've,

that people know

who I am.

I just see myself

as a knockabout bloke

that loves playing footy,

love being in the locker room

talking shit

with the boys

type stuff.

I think that's where

I got myself

in a bit of trouble

where I didn't have

a bit of,

bit of weight

behind me type stuff.

Yeah,

I remember you going

through all that

and just like,

I was just sitting there

like stressing out

and you'd just be like,

just chill out

and I'm like,

fuck,

how are you not stressed?

Yeah,

the one,

I remember that

when it all broke

and the camera,

they were knocking

on my front door.

I think it broke

on Saturday

and we were playing

Melbourne Monday night.

So I didn't leave

the house

and we had nothing,

you know what that house

was like,

we had nothing

in that house

and they were just

sitting out front

of the door

and I was sitting

there by myself

and I got one

of the boys

to run in

and grab me a feed

but that was

probably the only time

where I was like,

oh okay,

this is serious

and this is real

and this is a pretty

big thing

so that was where

the kind of gut-wrenching

feeling came from.

Oh okay,

yeah.

Yeah,

that type stuff

and then again,

played Melbourne on Monday

and that's where

I felt clear,

you know what I mean?

So yeah,

it was weird.

Yeah,

so obviously you guys

rolled into that next year

and you've been

for a bit of drama,

guys start to play

pretty well again,

Fozzy and Nat come over,

but yeah,

geez,

I would have loved

to play with Fozzy

a bit longer.

He really opened it up

for me.

He was really good,

just you know,

he's square to the line,

you know,

you run a bit of shape

and you waltz out the back

and you know,

there's a gap there,

you just,

it makes your job

a lot easier

as a 5'8".

It wasn't meant to be

and then he had his dramas

and it just seemed like

there's dramas everywhere

at Parramatta

all the time

but in saying that,

that year,

Mitchie came over,

we ended up being

in the top four

2017.

Yeah.

I thought he was

going to go all the way.

Oh man,

we were like,

Jesus Christ,

yeah

and that was a really

good vibe type thing

and obviously we got there,

we bowed out

which was disappointing.

We almost had Melbourne

on the ropes

at that first game

so,

which was disappointing

and yeah,

we bowed out

and then

yeah,

that following year

wasn't too good.

We came last

at 2018.

Oh,

did you?

He's come last.

Yeah,

it was,

it was weird.

We had that success

in 17

and we kind of went back

training

and our whole training

kind of changed.

We trained,

we did,

you did a lot of filming

with us that year.

We do a lot longer,

longer distance.

We just like

fell up

or runners.

Before that,

we'd always be 13 on 13,

bit of fitness,

13 on 13

just so you're playing

footy under fatigue.

It's like a game

but I'm not saying

that was the issue

but yeah,

it wasn't a good year

for us.

It's not funny

but I just think about it

like I know that time

when they had a big camp

and they had a big like

Do you want to talk about that?

Yeah.

Well,

so we had like an army camp

but it was,

I felt like it was more

of a you sober up

quarry camp.

They were hard

but yeah,

it was a few things there

that and again,

it probably came

from the best

like it wanted,

everyone wanted to try

help me type thing

and when you're in there

again,

like I've said,

I said,

nah,

you're picking on me.

No,

I didn't,

I didn't go that way

but I could see

what was happening

and again,

it's for,

they were trying to do it

for the best interest of me.

Like I said,

you can either

look at,

have a hard look at yourself

and go one way

or you just think

everything's all right

and you go the other way.

So we had that camp.

It was a bit,

it was a bit weird

but

you guys lost like six

in a row away

when you sobered up.

Yeah.

Maybe the sober thing

didn't work.

Yeah.

All right.

I was talking to Michael Hagen

at Nudo's wedding.

Yeah.

Cause he knew I love Joey.

So he put,

I remember that photo

I had back in the day

and I was sitting next to Joey

and I was like frothing

cause it was the first time

I met him and stuff like that

and Michael Hagen

was in our table

and he said something

to me that day

and he's like,

if Joey was like

a straighty 180,

he wouldn't have been Joey.

Yeah.

Like I think about that,

you,

but the hard part

is when everyone started

and that's the probably

the point of

in our route

where everything started

to get like a little bit

more serious.

Yeah,

of course.

Yeah.

It shifted

and again,

like if you got your main player

who loves going out

in the piss,

what about,

what do you think

of the kids coming through?

You know what I mean?

They look at that.

Well,

that's what we type of,

that's what we came through with

but it's different times

and it's changing

and I get what,

I get what they were trying to do

and for myself looking back,

it should have been

a bit of a wake up call

especially after a couple

of good years before

I could have been,

all right,

let's knuckle down

and let's see where it goes.

But yeah,

obviously that didn't happen

and I don't know,

I just,

it is what it is.

I know you had a couple

of offers that year

where you could have skedaddled

and power were going down.

You were still playing deep,

all right,

and getting offers

from a few different clubs

and I remember you telling me like,

oh,

I can't leave the boys.

Yeah.

Do you look back on now

and think,

fuck,

I could have gone

to Roosters or Knights?

Yeah,

could have,

would have.

Yeah,

you look back now

but at that time,

you know,

especially Brad

and that showed a lot of faith

in me.

Brad was your guy,

eh?

Yeah,

100%,

100%.

And like I said,

we had a good crew there.

We had a really good crew there.

Yeah,

like I said,

it would have,

could have,

but it is what it is.

So,

yeah.

How'd you end up with the Dragons?

Yeah,

well,

obviously we had that

horrid year in 18

and

it was,

me and Mitchie

weren't working

on the field type thing.

Off the field,

sweet.

It is what it is.

Both ball players want,

want the ball,

want the ball.

Did you feel like,

like even though Fozzie was there

on the ball,

you'd still,

like when we were playing,

you can still see organising,

you're the guy running the team

and then he sort of comes in

like trying to take over the team.

Was that sort of the vibe?

Nah,

it wasn't.

It was just like Mitch,

like a player wanting

the ball,

a halfback,

you know,

the ball in his hand

and it kind of got to a point

where it started taking sides,

people creeping over the sides type thing,

which is never good,

which is never good.

Me thinking back then,

probably should have just said,

Mitchie,

you run it

and let me just get back to running

and enjoying football.

You know what I mean?

Looking back now,

it should have been me

putting my hand up

and go,

I'll go on that Mitchie

because he played really well

17 and well.

He killed it as well in 17.

He played really well.

So me looking back,

yeah,

could have just said,

I've got a great halfback here.

You do your thing,

let me get out the back,

let me run,

now let me like get back to running

instead of being

traffic control at the back

organising plays,

missing opportunities.

Again,

ego men will get you.

Ego men will get you.

But yeah,

looking back,

yeah,

that should have happened,

but it didn't.

Gareth Widdop was

the dragon.

Gareth Widdop,

I think,

decided to go to England

the following year,

in 2019,

I think it was.

So,

I remember having that meeting

in the office,

the YKTR office.

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah.

And then,

Marion,

that came down

and had a chat with them

and they...

They sold the dream.

I was sitting in that meeting,

I was going,

fuck,

you're looking alright.

The boys are looking alright here,

the forward pack.

Yeah,

the forward pack and that.

And then that year,

they killed it that year as well.

So,

that 2018 year,

they played really well

as a team.

So,

yeah,

excuse me.

And then,

so I was like,

righto,

I'll go there.

Yeah.

And got down there

and then,

a few issues off the field

with,

with players that they had,

big name players,

came about

and it's always hard

with how big it was.

It was obviously Debellin.

You know,

I got a few injuries like that,

that first year.

So,

it didn't start off well,

but yeah,

I got down there

and I was down there.

Did you like it down there?

It was different.

I just feel like you're never

yourself down there.

Yeah.

And again,

I think

probably the football,

I wasn't playing as

good enough football either,

to be fair.

Which doesn't help either.

Go down there and,

you know,

you're assigning,

you're not playing

the best football.

You're not kind of enjoying

the way they play football.

Doesn't help.

But again,

that's on me

and it's no excuses.

But yeah,

like you said,

I never really got to

kick on down there,

which I was hoping for.

So,

so yeah.

Yeah.

What was the big differences

in like playing style

down there?

Because you've gone from

like Broncos,

all your big forwards,

fucking lucky kicks,

40-20,

everyone kick up there,

play some footy later,

to BA,

like we can do

whatever we want.

And going back to that

sort of stall.

Pretty structured here

to go to here,

to go to there,

you know,

block, block, block, block.

Again,

like I said,

there was a big thing

hanging off the field.

I'm not saying

that's an excuse,

but it does,

as players,

you don't say it does,

but it does affect you,

you know what I mean?

And like I said,

a few injuries as well.

But yeah,

it was the more set up

to play, play,

play, play type thing.

But,

yeah.

Yeah.

Again,

I look at it again

and I'm just like,

oh,

that's it.

I remember the year I left,

Dozer killed it.

I go,

where was that last year?

He could have kept me a job.

Almost Dele M.

Did he always get Dele M

that year?

22?

I can't remember.

Oh, yeah.

He could have kept me

in a job,

Dozer,

but you're right.

Yeah.

I wonder what it is down there.

I just don't feel like they can.

It doesn't help

that you got half

Wollongong,

half Kronawa.

You don't like the merger

sort of?

Oh,

people living.

Living,

like again,

like if you do a team thing,

people are like,

nah,

that means I've got to drive,

you know,

an hour up to Kronawa

or,

you know,

all those little things.

Yeah.

But,

yeah.

Yeah.

When did you know

your sort of time

was up with NRL?

Like,

mentally?

Mentally,

I knew,

obviously,

at the Dragons,

it just,

even like in my 200th game,

we played the Rabbits

and like,

they had an injury

out on my edge

and a four was out there.

Yeah.

And like,

I was just going through,

like,

I just wasn't,

give me the ball,

like I know I can do something

or like,

just didn't want the ball

on my hand

in the main bit.

Like,

I'd be rats about it.

Like,

I'd still want it.

I was still competitive thereabouts,

but I knew mentally

when I clocked off,

like I was gone.

Was that a moment,

was it?

Oh,

it was up there.

It was up there

just because,

again,

like I've always,

I wanted the ball.

I was always playing both sides,

blah,

blah,

blah.

And I just knew

mentally like,

just like,

nah,

I don't have that extra little bit to,

some days I would,

some days I wouldn't.

And again,

that's another point

where I'd be like,

yeah,

nah,

you're mentally not here.

So,

so yeah.

So what's sort of

the past couple of years

been like?

Obviously you went over to France,

played a bit over there.

Yeah.

Got the Broncos back in.

I was watching you play

the last couple of games

of the year.

Yeah.

And you look like

your old self.

You look like you were

just having fun.

Yeah.

The old freelancer

rugby league player.

The half season king.

Yeah.

I love half season.

I've just been floating around

playing half seasons.

The old freelancer.

But,

nah,

it was good.

Again,

I went over there

more for the experience.

Obviously in Europe

you get to travel,

do all that.

I've never done Europe before.

So it was more of a

life experience thing.

It wasn't more

so much football.

Like you said,

I've already kind of

clocked off

football wise,

but I still enjoyed it.

Still liked it

for what it was

and just having a bit of fun

with the boys.

So yeah,

it was more of a

life,

decision to go over there

and experience life over there.

So it was good.

Was it like in the Broncos

back into Super League?

Yeah,

it was cool.

Yeah,

it was cool.

Me and Dean have a laugh

about it a little bit,

but it was good,

especially

because I kind of knew

I wasn't going to stay.

Super League

is a bit too serious

of where I'm at

in my life in footy.

You know,

I'd rather play a bit of

local footy

and knock about

and have a laugh.

So yeah,

it was good.

It was fun.

We didn't get off

to the best start,

but ended up coming

over the top of them.

It was good.

You know what?

It was against Toulouse too

and when we didn't stay up

in Super League,

I tried to stay at Toulouse

to get on the Chimage

and just play a bit

because being in South France

was good

and they're like,

no,

no,

no,

we don't want you.

So you can stay down there then?

Yeah.

So then when we played them

in the champ

and they wanted to go back

up to Super League

real bad.

So to beat them

was perfect.

I don't know.

So you come back

and out of everyone

that sort of transition

out of football

and it hasn't been perfect,

but I feel like

you've just enjoyed it.

I look at a lot of people

and they struggle.

You know what I mean?

You just kind of cruised in.

Yeah.

And I'm not saying

it's been easy at all.

You do get your days.

You just go,

oh man,

should have took it a bit.

You know,

I should be still playing league

and just because it's easy,

it's an easy thing to do.

It's what you've known.

It just keeps it.

Yeah.

It's convenient

and you would know

for me,

rugby league was it.

It came like

I did it easy.

Me trying to learn

is so hard.

So I've never tried anything

outside of rugby league

studying.

You know,

I kind of didn't do that

one or two years

of going out

and being a tradie

before I made first grade.

So yeah,

it's literally me

trying to learn something new

is very hard.

So it's difficult,

but it's,

you know,

I'm obviously great

for we've got this company

for me to help me transition

in after footy,

which makes it a lot easier.

I can't come,

you know,

can't complain.

I'm here work

with one of my best mates

doing something

that I thoroughly enjoy

with clothes and stuff

and learning that type of stuff.

So it's not like I'm working

for Tom, Dick and Harry

down the road

and don't know any one of them.

I feel like you could just roll in

and still enjoy it though.

I would,

but again,

in life,

that's what you don't want

to do.

That's what you don't want

to be doing

for the rest of your life.

And,

you know,

I realize now

when the pay packet drops

and you're in the real world,

it's totally different.

So,

like I said,

I'm very lucky

that I've got this here

for me to transition anyway

and help me get into the real world.

But like you said,

I've,

it's kind of weird

I say this,

but I've always kind of been

content to play football

and then just go back

and just work,

which is,

which has probably helped me

in the long run,

but it's,

it's probably not the right

mindset to be in

because,

yeah,

like I've always been happy

just,

oh yeah,

I'll finish up

and I'll just go work.

Hopefully I've got a house

and,

you know,

I have a partner

and have a kid

and that type,

living like that,

like that lifestyle.

So,

but once you get out,

it's,

it's not that easy

and obviously

when you realize money

doesn't come like that easy,

your brain,

your brain flicks over

and,

and you want to do better.

So,

I'm excited for this

next little bit.

I'm just see how I'll go

and see what's in store.

Your partner,

cool.

Yeah.

If I,

if we're sitting here

having this conversation

10 years ago,

obviously you like,

you've done well with girls

and you like girls

and girls like you

back in the day.

Yeah.

Never really had a girlfriend

growing up.

What's it been like

the transition of

being C norms

to being like

a really good boyfriend?

Fiance.

Yeah.

It's different.

I know the boys

are lining up

to give me shit

whenever they can.

So,

I've got a cop

that I've did my fair share.

I've did my fair share

of stirring the pot

and giving shit to boys.

So,

it's only natural

but it's been good.

You know,

it's,

it's,

it's a quiet life.

It's very different.

Do you like the quiet life?

Yeah,

it's good.

I don't mind.

The thing for me is

I never had a girlfriend

for a very long time.

I've

partied,

enjoyed life,

traveled.

I've done all

the exciting things

as you do

when you're coming through.

It's not like

I've never been locked

in a relationship

or anything like that.

So,

now I'm in one.

I don't get FOMO

of,

you know,

what are the boys doing

going out?

You know what I mean?

I've had it.

Yeah,

you've had it all.

So,

I'm pretty lucky

that I've got everything

out of my system

and don't get me wrong,

I still love to have a beer

with the boys or whatnot

but if you just go out

or someone's out clubbing

or they come to this,

I'm like,

oh,

yeah.

I'll wake up fresh tomorrow.

Yeah,

that's the good vibe.

You know what I mean?

So,

yeah,

it's been good.

Again,

it's,

I've had my fun football wise

and that's been my life.

Now I'm here,

got my partner

so it's more about,

right,

what am I going to do

for my future family

and how am I going to set that up

type stuff.

So,

yeah.

So,

you talk about family

when you,

we talked about

you not having a dad growing up.

Is that like your biggest motivation

to be the person

that you wish you had?

Yeah,

I've always said

that I wanted kids young

but obviously,

like I probably didn't,

I probably wasn't in the right

mind frame to do that.

You know,

I wanted fun

over stability,

blah,

blah,

blah.

But now,

I've settled down,

you know,

looking forward to,

you know,

having a child

and like you said,

didn't have a dad

so for me to be the best dad

that I can for my kid

will be,

yeah,

be good.

You'll be sick.

Yeah,

100%.

Bro,

that gave me goosebumps.

That gave me goosebumps.

So,

yeah,

like,

yeah,

obviously,

you just want to give them

everything that you missed out on

so hopefully,

hopefully it works out

and it'll be good

when it arises.

So,

in and around now,

I think it's in

one of the coolest places

it's ever been

and I think the game

product's awesome.

I think players are cool.

Like,

how do you view the game now

that you've left it

and look back on it

like in terms of like

playing style

in terms of

the way the boys

can be themselves

and express themselves?

To be fair,

we've been a part of that.

Yeah,

it's,

like you said,

it's really good to see

the boys express themselves

as players

and,

you know,

get a few more characters

in the game

and whatnot

but the biggest thing for me

is just the way

they think

it's,

the way,

they're moving

at the minute

as in like,

okay,

business.

It's just not about

rugby league anymore.

It's like business,

personal branding,

that type stuff.

It's really cool

and how professional

they've turned.

That's a big one for me.

That's a big one.

And I guess

when the game

keeps growing,

the money keeps going in,

you're going to have to,

you're going to,

that's the only way

it's going to go

but I think for the game

that's the best way

for,

you know,

these younger boys

being so professional,

moving different.

I think it's,

it's really good

for NRL

and obviously

you can see

in the product

all them younger boys

that are on stage now,

the football tactic,

you know,

take,

for example,

the Bronx and Melbourne game,

you know what I mean?

It was crazy.

So,

plenty of talent out there

and they've all got

their heads switched on

which seems to be

a good thing as well.

So,

it's good

and it's,

as a fan sitting back

and loving the game,

it's good.

So,

when I think about you

like coming into grade

at nine

and then 18

when,

like people are trying

to get you off the piss,

that's like a nine,

10 year period

of transition

and now we're into

that next little phase now.

So,

we're 20,

24,

25.

Yeah.

We were like,

you're at the peak of your powers,

15,

16.

Like,

it's,

when we were getting on the piss

every weekend,

those boys aren't doing that shit,

are they?

Nah,

no way.

Even getting down the Dragons

and that Lomax was there

and he was only still 18

when I first got down there

and then we'd play

and then the next day

he's putting in the group chat

that he's having ice baths

and I'm like,

what's he doing?

I'm like,

surely go have a beer.

You know,

that's just the two different

type of ways

and like,

it's like,

oh,

what?

You know what I mean?

Like,

it's just two different,

it's the two things,

but again,

I think it's better,

it's better for the game,

it's going to be better

for the players

in the long run

and I think

that's been overlooked

a lot

is that transition phase

from the old school type players

and what they had to go through

and how,

I'm not saying everyone

was depressed

but they didn't set themselves

up after

I think now

the way these younger guys

are moving

that rate won't be as high

where we have to

check on the,

you know,

players that retire as much

which we will

but I'm saying,

you know,

like that older generation

coming through

when they finish

a lot of them

would have struggled

because they don't have

the opportunities

of social media,

personal branding,

blah, blah, blah

and kind of just get left

by the wayside.

Do you think it can go

the other way though?

So like say,

Reece Walsh

next contract

he's on $2 million a year

like that,

that injection of money

has never really been seen before.

Do you think it could go

the other way

where they're like,

oh fuck,

I'm set now

because those guys

like a gun 5A

back in the day

might get $250, $300 bro

and they're on big money.

Yeah.

And that's not enough money

to set yourself up.

Yeah.

Are you saying like

because they're on big money

though their football

won't be as good

or you mean after?

Are you saying?

I'm also after.

So like you got a chunk of change

when you were playing.

Yeah.

You weren't really thinking about

like obviously we had this wrong

but you weren't really thinking

about anything else.

We were talking about

player managers before

and you said

because you're on so much money

you wouldn't even give a fuck.

You would just sign shit.

Sign, yeah.

So now players are going to get paid

twice, three times as much

as what you were on.

Yeah.

Do you reckon that

carefree attitude happens

or are they so professional

in business?

Yeah, I think they're so

professional in business.

I think you'll see a lot of people

getting the right little

like right team around them

as in it won't

probably won't be a manager

it might be a lawyer

blah, blah, blah.

You know what I mean?

They'll have their little team there

that's going to be with them

throughout their career.

They obviously sort out money wise

or whatever

but as you said

the more bigger money they're on

I think you'll just get more

professional, professional

and everyone will just move

start moving different.

Yeah, I like that.

So yeah.

Who are you liking in the league

at the moment?

Obviously you've been watching

a bit of football.

Who's some guys

you got your eye on

that you like

that are going well?

I was saying

I don't know his name

but it's just

I've watched a few Rabbits games.

He comes off the bench

for the Rabbitohs.

He's got like a mullet.

I don't know his name

but he's good.

Not Talis.

What's his name?

I'm not too sure

what his name is

but again

I watched the Tigers

and Paragame

the two young

young superstars.

Yeah.

That was really cool to watch

and again

like when you're in football

you don't really care

about that much

but as you get

you get out

you enjoy that little

you know hype around

the younger stars

and stuff like that

so that was cool.

I like Ezra Mann

at the minute.

He's cool.

Yeah.

I like him.

Him and Reecey

that little combo.

But yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

Oh sorry.

One last question.

I obviously got to play Origin as well.

Forgot about that.

Oh yeah.

The one hit wonder.

So this time of day

Vanilla Rice

the one hit wonder.

I've actually got to thank KP for that.

I think he got injured.

Yeah.

But yeah.

No it was cool.

It was a very cool experience.

Obviously I wish

you know

could have played

you know a few more games

than one

but the lead up

with even just being

in the camp before

I got to play

in that last game

though over in Perth

just being in that environment

with the caliber of players there

even like the Queensland staff

you got all the legends there

you know what I mean.

Like it's crazy.

You're listening aren't you?

Yeah.

You got those boys around.

Crazy man.

So it was good experience for me.

It was unreal

but it was more of a

that was more for my family

and kind of

it was a good reward for them

everything they've done for me.

Especially my mom.

Yeah.

You know close family

that have helped me

you know when I was younger

get to football.

So

and we're all mad Queensland supporters

like we're all

so it was

it was a more of a proud moment

for me to give back to them

type thing

but it was cool.

Obviously didn't get the win

but it was a

it was an unreal atmosphere.

I just

I literally remember

just running out and looking

and that's it.

And then kind of

I don't really remember

any of the game

except for the tackle

I missed on Fergie.

Sorry Queensland.

Oh God.

Oh God.

Come on man.