Josh Mansour And Jeremy Latimore Whats Next

hey guys welcome back to ebbs and flows where we talk about the highs and lows on and off the field

we're excited today a couple old teammates

you guys best friends i didn't speak for about a year and a half oh really is it a bit of drama

i wouldn't know when he went to rabbit eyes he was the first bloke never changed clubs and

just went really in his head you wouldn't understand you've never changed clubs with

my brother he reminds you when he does a favor for you i'll tell you that oh he does all right

so let's see boys thanks for jumping on obviously latty been um sitting in this chair so um do you

enjoy the podcasting journey when you're in it and i've seen you've been bouncing around a few

podcasts lately what's been happening yeah mate i i said to you obviously i i i love to have a chat

and um being on that side being on that side of the microphone where you know you've got to let

them speak and um you know listen take it in and then roll on with other questions but i loved it

hey i really enjoyed it and yeah done a few other parties lately but i've obviously mentioned to you

about

me and jimmy potentially doing something at the end of the year so uh mate might be on the other

side of the mic a fair bit more what else you're doing we'll get there man you don't need to jump

the gun mate you know uh saucy how are you bro yeah i'm good i'm good man yeah so it's been a

pretty busy year um a bit all over shop but i'm i'm in a good place now so that's good first time

i have three kids um yeah obviously like someone asked before like how'd you get your nickname

sauce like how did that sort of come about because i don't even know it's a good question um i wish it

was a good story about it but i was just in the 20s i think nathan pete's um and adam reynolds were

trying to figure out a nickname for me and then they go man saw man sauce and it just stuck ever

since oh yeah and then there was yeah it was a time where i went to take this highball and i

was spinning in the air and i got called man saucer and i was yeah that's it man that's that

i wish it was a better story we should have added jst to that bro and you're talking that fast

i had two copies just pop a vowel in his dream oh i had to keep him around and then i was mancering

ourselves and yeah that's the story uh let's see you've had a few nicknames in your time um give us

give us a couple of your favorites over the years look i'm not even gene up but at the moment i'm

copying john cena a lot which i love like i cop it out a few times on the weekend off man is that

because they can't see you at the bar no no isn't that what he does yeah oh my shirt no just obviously

same definition looks uh mate ron perlman our farm sons of anarchy i don't know if i really

like that one that was the og wasn't it that was when we're at the warriors together i dressed up

as him on the 2011 mad monday um but yeah similar eyes and stuff similarities no none but um horse

monkey gorilla huh just my features on my face luna park um donkey but that's not for my face

awesome one off the never-ending story that's a yeah the dog is that the dog what is that thing

i think ian henderson called me out of the warriors when i was a young bloke growing up in

port macquarie i was goose as well it's funny you say that because i played a ridges game at

port mac one time and one of your mates rocked up and he's like how's goose going

once i become lat so i grabbed onto that and held on to that yeah not the goose or not ron perlman

john cena i might get start getting people call me jc a lot of a lot of animals in there yeah a lot

a lot man i swear kids love me like kids love me and i reckon it's a mixture of all the animals in

my face and like i'm a big friendly teddy bear i'm a big teddy bear i'm a big teddy bear i'm a big teddy

bear um and then also transitioned into the goat a little bit later yeah how did that sort of come

about yeah so uh nrro so that was uh that was more my off-field stuff and um the cam smith thing when

i uh tried to play the ball fast off my back and hit him in the nuts even though he was cramping

my face with these ball bags um so that was off the back of that and a few other things that

happened off the field um roast he started giving me the goat but i just really trying

to make clear i know it's got nothing to do with my rugby rugby league ability how did you react to

that being called to go he would have been pumped i love it i do you know i'm the people's champ

anyway so i'm getting around high five and go even though like it's half a mock i don't care it is

what it is all right so so today's sort of episode um we're going to talk about transitioning outside

of football and we're very different stages i'm i think i'm like six years out you're about three

and a four coming up and yeah so always sort of be like a good sort of way to transition but

i don't want to like overlook your guys careers um saucy obviously had a wonderful career and

still going what's some of the highlights from your career because you've done it all

man honestly the biggest highlight for me is just playing with my best mates man honestly like the

memories that you create it's just it's the best ever man like i was lucky enough to play at new

south wales and for australia but just the bond that you create with mates like obviously guys

like latsy just that's priceless man honestly honestly it's the best ever just just catching

up with lads haven't seen him in a long time yeah and yourself just sharing stories all war stories

yeah lots of fire in my belly um the show's because they're ebbs and flows and you guys

sum that up pretty well moods i used to call you guys the emotional roller coasters and

the ups and downs um do you want to talk about some of the downsides of your career

uh downsides definitely probably have to be injuries um you know early in my stage early

stages of my career should say like it's just pure joy when you're playing rugby league you

know you're obviously living the dream and you're having a good time with your mates and

i feel like at the back in your career you kind of get a larger perspective about it um

obviously when you're getting injured you know the highs and lows with that the work you have to

put in on and off the field mentally and physically um but also towards the back end of my career i've

kind of started noticing you know the transitioning away from rugby league and that's kind of been a

bit of a challenge for myself um you know there's those times where i was like you know what i'm

done this is it this is my last year but then there's times where i kind of just get reeled

back in and you know this just comes back to the person i am i'm pretty passionate um you know as

a little kid like all of us we've always dreamed to play in the nrl so it's not something easy to

give up and you know i've always dreamed to play in the nrl so it's not something easy to give up and

i think the biggest fear for me is obviously falling into something that i'm also just as much

as passionate about um which i don't know i think i don't think we'll ever be you know parallel but

um you know hopefully i'll find that one day um man of lebanese culture i love living these people

so like inviting and family oriented and obviously food's really great and the best ever i'm always

in a rush to drive somewhere not him how many flat toys did he used to get driving the train

hey i've got another flat that was just like no you weren't that was legit no way we used to

eat i i'd come 40 minutes from my house to meet him he was coming five minutes and every day he'd

be 10 minutes late so i got caught in traffic it was just he put more of an importance on his time

than mine so he's the only lebanese guy never in a hurry he's on fiji time he's coming in like the

day i found out i was going to debut i actually had a flat tire but uh yeah no it's true um sort

of roll back off that question what was like the lebanon experience and playing for for that because

there's there's like australia new south wales playing in grand finals all that stuff's going to

be great from a surface level but in terms of actual culture and i felt this because i was

lucky enough to play for kiwis but when i played for cookies it was just kind of like a little bit

different yeah because culture's like a little bit different do you want to talk about that

experience definitely um paying for australian and lebanon like massive difference in my eyes

um obviously paying for australia so many more cultures um having the opportunity to play for

the country of your birth was definitely one of my highlights of my career but also to represent my

culture was it was something special man like it's it's hard to put into words exactly but

i think um i should say early in my career like it was always it's a bit hard like there's always

this perception on being lebanese and you know it was you know negative and positive whatever

it might be but um i wasn't as outspoken as i am now about and how proud i actually am about

being lebanese so going to camp everyone embracing each other getting to know a bit more about my

heritage like i was fortunate enough to go in 2009 and that was a massive eye-opening experience like

i met uncles aunties for the first time and just to speak to them and hang out with them and you

know just break bread with them it was like i've known him for my whole life like i was 19 at the

time and you know my dad unfortunately hasn't been back since he was 17 years old so to kind of

understand his upbringing like me and my dad don't have the kind of best relationship like

we're not really that tired but we do um keep in touch from time to time but to kind of get

an understanding of his kind of childhood kind of makes sense to kind of about his life and

how it's panned out for himself um but yeah again like to share that that trip in the last

world cup that was one of the best experiences of my life like i was i was contemplating on going or

because um i had no contract um and if you get injured like all that all that going through my

mind i've got a family um i had a lot going on in the background so uh i took it as an opportunity

what's that

we'll get to you later yeah it's your time bro you go no no oh good thanks for that

um but yeah so i went over had a great time made so many more memories with mates and um come back

yeah that was good um sort of this conversation is going to go for a while but one thing

you can let go from penrith a week after or a couple days after the grand final

and i know you just went back out to penrith a couple weeks ago and mighta i don't know what

was that experience like one to go through it at the time straight after a gf and two to go back

basically your regular home i think like going back um finding out that you know i was kind of

leaving penrith i think if i had my chance again i'd probably change it like i've always changed it

I feel, yeah, it was a bit hard to take.

It was a hard pill to swallow,

especially like losing a grand final.

And, you know, two days later,

kind of having that conversation was a bit tough.

Do you reckon their timing's, is their timing weird?

Yeah.

So you still had a year to go on your deal?

Yeah, I still had one more year to go, but, you know.

Well, I guess from a coaching point of view,

they don't let you know a week before the grand final.

Well, mate, we're not going to keep you next year.

So I guess, you know, get the season done.

That happened to me at the Warriors.

Really? In 2011?

Yeah, yeah.

Remember Louis McLennan come in?

On the Wednesday before the grand final,

and we were like, oh, you guys, you played a fuss, eh?

Yeah, yeah, I'd already been released.

I got it early in the year, I thought, so that was all good.

I got my head around it for 10 weeks, and then I was sweet.

But yeah, no, like, and I guess that's Ivan's reasoning.

He doesn't want to let Saucy go, let him know the week of,

and we know our mate can hold on to things,

so we're going to let him know the week after the grand final.

Obviously, Hart, and he's a legend at the club.

Like, he was a guy who, Hart and Sol were in the locker room as well,

but rugby league is a business at the end of the day,

and, you know, you know.

I mean, I know that, and I found that out about seven times,

but it is what it is, right?

And you just got to take it on the chin,

and you obviously did and moved on.

So I obviously had some time to kind of, you know,

reflect and think about that situation,

and again, like you said, it is a business at the end of the day.

I was there for pretty much a quarter of my life,

so I really grew up at that club.

I went through the highs and lows, and, you know,

I'm an emotional person.

Like, I get really emotionally attached to things,

and I'm pretty loyal, I like to think, with my mates,

or especially with a club that I ever, whoever I play for.

So, again.

Like, it was a tough experience, but going back there.

Was that, like, good?

Unbelievable, man.

Yeah.

Like, I can't even put it into words again.

It's just, when I went there, like,

I haven't been there since 2020,

and just meeting the fans there, the smell of the joint, like.

What does it smell like?

Yeah, that DP, that grass, you know, that dew smell, you know?

Yeah.

That is a unique experience.

It is a unique experience to play out there in the middle of winter.

It's unreal.

I love it.

Yeah.

And.

Just the buzz of the place, man.

And obviously seeing all the old boys, like,

Jason Wrigley, the football manager, still there.

Seeing Ivan there.

Peter Wallace.

Seeing all the boys.

Spud.

Spud's still there.

Spud's still there.

Kevin Kingston.

Kevin Kingston.

Is Mearsie still there?

Who's that?

Is Mearsie still there?

No, I saw another old fella.

Because I went out there to present about something,

and I saw another old fella out there doing the gear.

So, Mearsie mustn't be there.

No, maybe not.

But, yeah.

Just to say how different the place is compared to when I first started.

Like, everything's just changed for the better.

But, yeah.

It's good to see where they're at now.

They're obviously doing something well,

and they could do a three-peat.

So, I hope so.

Crazy.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaking of old clubs,

Latsy, you'd probably have to take annual leave.

For every reunion.

We got the Penrith one the other day, actually.

I got there, too.

All the old boys.

I think that's the first one I've got off Penrith.

Oh, really?

I just found the email.

Yeah, maybe.

I don't know.

Maybe because I went out and presented to the boys, you know.

Shout out, I'm still alive.

So, you sort of bounce around clubs, and so did I.

But, what's some of the best lessons you learned through that experience?

Like, being regarded as a journeyman.

Like you said, very likable.

Yeah.

How's that skill set?

What was the skill set that you picked up during that time?

And what's the skill set from that that's helped you transition into where you are now?

Mate, massively.

Like, I think early on.

I remember when Chico, Chico always used to go,

you're a journeyman.

And then when he started to pick up a few clubs,

I couldn't wait to throw it back at him.

But, you know, I used to push back on him.

I'm not like a fucking journeyman.

I'm not a journeyman.

But then I started to embrace it.

And like you say, like, you know,

I feel like I got along with everyone.

At most clubs I played at.

Or every club I played at.

There's only probably one or two blokes I look back on

and I'm like, I couldn't really get along with him.

And you've got 30 to 36 blokes in a football squad.

So, you know, you've gone to an office.

You know, there's usually people hating each other across the office.

So, I feel like that was a skill of mine.

I can assimilate in with the New Zealand.

I played at the Warriors.

Me and Bogan, Jimmy Maloney rolled over there.

And, you know, we had Samoan, Fijian, Afghanistan, Cookie,

you know, white fellas, Aboriginal, Mooney.

Like, we had every.

We had every sort of culture there.

And, mate, we had a great mix back in that time in 2010-11.

But I think I can go into any room and, you know,

like I'm quite confident I can go and speak to most people.

I reckon that's definitely helped me in transitioning away from sport.

My network is now.

I'm starting to reap the benefits of that.

You know, four years after I retired with all the balls I got in the airs

and fingers in pies, which, you know, rugby league brought that to me.

And, you know, I faced, you know, adversity through Warriors.

Like, mate, we're not going to keep you next year.

You know, that hurts when you get told that at the time.

And I didn't have kids then, so I didn't have a greater perspective on life.

And, you know, I thought the world was ending.

But the reality is, a week later, the Dragons saw me.

Hey, shit, the sun's coming out again today.

But, you know, the adversities you face, like, both through injury,

getting told you're not wanted.

Mate, my first five years in the NRL, I played 50 games.

So, mate, I was like, me and Saul's moods, man.

I was up and down, up and down, up and down.

You got me the giant drop, the terror, terror.

But, yeah, I think that adversity just, you know,

and I've had a few challenges since I retired, which we can touch on later.

But, mate, I just feel like, yeah, the skills you learn through rugby league,

first, how to talk to people, network, assimilate into a group, leadership,

being able to get out of your comfort zone, being able to take feedback.

You know, you're always going to be in a good position after footy.

And I know business is target.

But elite athletes, because, especially team athletes,

because you've been able to perform in a team environment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was just trying to think of anything else.

On the back of that, honestly, like, I remember, like, again,

the start of my career, like, guys like Cameron Serrato, like, you know,

used to come up to me, give me lectures and, you know,

make sure you're doing your stretching, you're doing your 1%.

But, again, like, I just, I was just living the dream.

Like, it was just pure joy, you know what I mean?

But just the two comparisons, you know, you've got Ciro, who was, like,

on the, you know, on the out, finished his career, done,

but trying to just pass down that knowledge.

So, I feel like you have to experience the hard,

you have to experience the kind of the rollercoaster, like you said,

and that's when you kind of actually understand the kind of the lessons

out of it, if that makes sense.

Like, even you yourself, like, you know, making, telling me,

keeping in touch with me, make sure you do this, you know,

networking, like I said, was a very important thing.

And I was always scared of, like, kind of putting myself out there,

you know what I mean?

Like, I just, I don't know why.

That's probably another regret.

It's good, like, it's a footy thing, bro.

Yeah, 100%.

Like, you guys knew me around then, but I was into different things.

Like, I was into reading and taking photos.

I remember I was filming.

It was very different at the time.

Man, 100%.

And that's, you're outside the box, right?

Yeah.

The biggest excuse, like, footballers like you use is,

I've got no time.

That's the biggest fucking bullshit.

You've got more time than anyone in the world.

It's true.

Like, I just want to focus on footy and that's all good.

That's all good.

Focus on footy, Queen in the Nile on the day off.

What coffee aren't ordering?

Boys, we go on the TAB.

Three different cafes on the day off.

On Hinge.

You know, I kind of experienced it this year.

Like, I just got thrown a bit of a curveball and I was like,

shit, I don't know what I'm going to do now.

Like.

Yeah.

But, you know, fuck.

I just feel like you should always plan for at least five years ahead

and just do other things.

Like, footy is just not, footy is not everything.

Like, I totally get it.

Like, I feel like I'm one of the old guys.

You were that guy.

I'm one of the old guys.

I fucking lectured the young guys, you know what I mean?

But it's only through experience that,

and because I feel like I was forward thinking.

I was at uni, not that I'm using that degree at the moment.

Like, I was doing courses.

I was also going in and working on days off.

Like, I was going to learn mortgage broking.

But still, like, that transition,

into the real world, nothing prepares you for it.

Like, when you were doing that stuff,

I just could not get my head around how you had the time to do that.

Like, I just couldn't.

I couldn't understand it.

And, you know, you just find the time.

Like, you make things a priority.

That's, yeah, simple as that.

Sorry, just jumping in.

Like, I went and presented to over 28 boys.

Like, Kevin Kingston invited me, Joe Nullivar,

and who was the other one?

Simo, David Simmons, in to have a chat about our experience.

Oh, the Rev.

Couldn't have any more three different people.

The Priest and Jerry.

But, you know, we, you know, I told everything.

You know, I just let them know what my last few years were like

and what's been happening.

And my main thing was, like, especially that football team out there.

Mate, everyone loves the Penrith Panthers.

So, I'm like, boys, you need to leverage your brand

and who you are in the community

and go find something you're interested in.

Go spend a day a week learning something you want to do after footy.

See if they want to be an entrepreneur.

I'm going to say if someone wanted to ring you and go,

bro, can I come watch what you do on your days off?

Like, on my day off.

Or, hey, lads, I want to be a mortgage broker.

Hey, Josh Mansour, I want to be an NRL reporter.

You're such a burger.

You're such a burger.

But, like, there's all these, you know, avenues.

If you want to have a crack and explore it.

Tyrone Peachy, he's started his own business.

He's, like, doing it on his days off now.

What's he doing?

They're, like, picking up kids and taking them to school.

Like, yeah, he's got a couple of Hertz fans out there.

So, what's that?

What's the business?

Huh?

What's the business?

What's Tyrone doing?

Like, picking up kids and doing what with them?

Taking them to school.

I was just going to ask for his business plan.

I was just like, man, it's good to see you using your time

and you're not sitting around the house

and you're getting out and about

instead of staying at home like Josh

and sun's not out again, shut the blinds.

I see a lot of guys probably more in our position

than someone who's, like, saucy.

Like, I've seen Tino just sign a 10-year contract

and we would have been happy with a three.

You know what I mean?

But that does set you up later on in life.

What's some advice you could give people

who are in that middle tier?

Yeah.

They're not minimum wage or in our position

anywhere between 30 to 150 games or you're at 180.

What's some advice you could give those guys?

Because that was really important for me

because the way I used to see it is, like,

I'm an average guy here, but when I transition out,

I don't want to be average again.

Mate, 100%.

And I know you love Michael Luck, who I love as well.

And him and, like, my ex-wife Natalie,

like, they were my motivators to jump into a uni degree.

So, first, I think you need to find something

that keeps you distracted away from rugby league.

It's like you're reading and doing your courses

while you're playing because, again, like, yeah, okay,

you can probably have a coffee one day a week with the boys,

but you don't need to be going on every single day off

and spending time with the boys

who you're with every other day anyway.

I agree, bro.

That's a big one.

Yeah.

And I know some boys have families,

but still you need an outlet.

And my other thing is invest your money.

So, shout out, Elsie.

That's one of my businesses, boys, if you're watching.

Reach out.

But you need to invest your money and make it work for you, right?

So, you do have a short time frame.

So, even someone who's going to play 30 games,

you can build the right habits and investment strategies

irregardless of what you're earning.

And, mate, my last two years, I was on 100K,

like, playing in the NRL.

So, mate, there's boys out there now.

I think the minimum is nearly 150, 160K.

So, investment, use your time wisely,

whether it's education or find something you want to do after footy.

And I agree with that.

That networking thing you said of the old boys where, like,

I reckon once you transition out, you've maybe got a year and a half.

Unless you're making content like we've done and Scope done as well,

that kind of puts you back in front of everyone.

But that little year and a half transition,

best time to execute is when you're actually in football.

People answer calls when you're there.

100%.

I feel like, again, it's like there's two things.

Like, it's dropping the ego.

Like, put yourself out there.

You know what I mean?

Like, you never know what doors will open for you.

That's one thing.

And I feel like we get taken advantage sometimes as well,

like, as footballers.

I feel like people you can use us because obviously our brand

and stuff like that.

When players are talking about brand and stuff,

they don't really actually understand the true power that we have

in terms of growing businesses or, you know,

being an ambassador or marketing something.

So I feel like, A, your body is definitely key foremost,

obviously to play the game, but also just your brand itself.

Like, if you're doing everything right,

obviously it opens a lot of doors, don't you reckon?

I think you're a little bit ahead of the time where, like,

to me, you're, like, one of the first actual professional

athletes and how you treated your body from, like, Monday to Friday.

Like, we'd all go eat out at cafes and, like, you look at NRL teams now

and they're all ripped, like, from front row all the way back to fullback.

But you were, like, ripped.

You cared about preparation.

You cared about stretching.

And you seemed to care about body.

Where did that come from?

Because it wasn't around us.

I don't know.

I think it's just the way I was brought up.

Like, I didn't really get much looking, like, coming up as a junior.

So I felt like I had to work hard for everything, like, coming up as a kid.

So I wanted to kind of, you know,

you talk about the one percenters, right?

Like, you do everything you possibly can

to give yourself the best possible advantage.

So all that comes into play, like, what I ate, stretching,

you know, hanging out with the right crowd, like, obviously, put that all together.

You got a massive, you know, massive benefit from it.

So for me, I tried being as much of a professional as I can be.

Obviously, I did kind of sway from time

to time when I got a bit ahead of myself. I'm not going to lie.

I wasn't perfect.

You need to enjoy yourself.

Yeah, you need to enjoy yourself.

That's my motto.

I'm not going to say that.

That's Lassie's motto.

It's all about balance.

It's all about balance. All about balance.

Like, balance is very hard to come

by. Like, I struggle with it from time to time.

And I'm currently struggling with it now.

Like, obviously, adjusting with playing

footy, having a business and obviously doing a few things on the side.

So family as well.

But even like, like doing like the modelling shots and like at the time,

we would pay you out because we're jealous, you know what I mean?

More ripped than you are, but back then I wasn't.

Like, even now, like the boys, even I watch them and they do like,

Nico, he done his modelling gig and he was doing all stuff.

But he pays himself out straight away.

And like back in the day,

that

wouldn't be seen as cool.

And I still feel like that sticker was still in the locker room.

You know what I mean?

I definitely feel like that.

I feel like it's just like that fear of getting picked on by the boys.

Like, it's definitely in there.

I got picked on all the time. I didn't care.

You know, I was used to it.

I had thick skin, especially hanging out with this bloke and being my roomie.

Sitting in a car for two hours every day.

Chewing my ear off.

Um, yeah, I was just trying to think.

Oh, I had this random thought.

Remember when you guys tried to fight me in the nightclub?

When? When I made a joke about your eye?

Yeah, me. Was that a trademark?

I don't know.

It was me.

I don't know if the fight was a blop.

Flamingos, yeah.

Yeah, he threw the toys out of the car.

Who was this?

I come up to you, I say, hey, Saucy, how are you?

And you just go, I'm not talking to you.

Oh yeah, because you said something on Twitter.

No, you said something on Twitter and you were holding on to it.

I don't remember.

I've got Josh.

Can you remind me? Can we bring the tweet out?

Let's bring the tweet out.

Something on Twitter.

Do you know what it was, bro?

Like someone asked why Saucy's out.

And I didn't know the extent of your actual injury.

You know, when you got

that knee in the face, I go, oh, he's got a black eye.

He's got six weeks for a black eye.

So you storm off and then lets it come storming behind me.

Grabs my shoulder, like rips me.

He goes, if Saucy ain't talking to you, I'm not talking to you.

That is GST.

Corey was there.

I think I even had a YKTR shirt on too.

I'll take this logo off.

I think Corey did tell me that.

Because then there was another time at Trademark, remember Jamal tried to fight you?

That was Flamingos.

Flamingos, isn't that Flamingos?

Yeah, the new Flamingos.

Great, nice, you know, Flamingos.

I think that's where we then ended up back at Betland.

Tell them the story about that.

I can't really remember.

So we had Mad Monday.

2014 Mad Monday.

It came for like two hours and it just disappeared.

Like full smoke bomb and everything.

Who, Latsy or?

Nah, nah, Jamal.

Please, always.

I was trying to call him, no answer.

A few of the boys were trying to call him, whatever.

So we all decided to go to the cross.

Anyway, we get to the Flamingos and there was like a massive line of me and Latsy.

We just, you know, just in the line, just minding our own business.

And then we just see Jamal just walk past the line and go back up the stairs.

And Latsy's absolutely throwing daggers in his back.

Look at how arrogant he is.

Not hanging out with the boys, hanging out with his own mates.

It's Mad Monday. Who does he think he is?

Calm down, bro, that's all good.

Anyway, we end up going into the club and then he's like, make sure you don't talk to Jamal.

If he comes up to us, don't talk to him, OK?

We're like, yeah, yeah, sweet.

Sounds like Latsy.

Jamal comes up to us, taps us on the shoulder.

We just both look to each other.

We just both walk off.

Anyway, Jamal must have got offended by it.

And then he picked

on my mate, happened to be there.

That's how it happened.

Yeah, he picked on our arm there. Do you remember that?

I can't remember. I just remember the blow up upstairs.

I don't remember being in the line.

I thought you had pool there and we went to the front.

Oh, mate. Anyway, it was a bit of a push and shove.

And then Jamal got kicked out.

Then me and Latsy hanging off the balcony.

Jamal, where you going, bro? Come back, come back.

And then we rang him the next day and he's like, what happened last night?

It was all normal, it was all normal.

Anyway, hope you're well, Jamal. Haven't seen you in a while.

Good times, good times.

So we'll talk about transitioning.

And I

remember the exact moment, like I used to always say I was over

football, but the exact moment I can remember as clear as day where I'm like,

I'm done. And that was when I got injured again out at Manly.

And I was like, I'm just over football.

What year was that?

Sixteen, maybe.

I just felt, for me, I felt stuck in football.

I felt trapped.

Yeah, I hated it. I hated it.

What part about it? Just the routine, the schedule and the demand.

I just felt like it was restricting, like you're told what to do,

where to be,

what to wear, how to play, and then you throw in a stack of injuries.

That goes either way.

But people love that.

People love having given a schedule and having been told.

That's probably a big challenge when you do retire.

And I was going to swing around to that.

It's like always wanted freedom to do what I want and when I wanted.

And then I found myself once I left football, I had that freedom.

But I felt stuck again because I had nothing to work towards.

And I ended up structuring my day around that.

But to sort of throw it back, when was the moment you probably realized that you

were done or had enough?

So 2019.

I'm on another one year deal, believe it or not.

I sort of got wind early in the year that Dragons were keen to get me sort of into

an off field role doing like partnerships and like ambassador stuff.

I'd been slowly doing the mortgage broken stuff.

So I remember going and speaking to the club and they sort of said at that point

they didn't have anything for me, but there may be like something later

in the year and I was just like, look, I've got an opportunity to get this

steady income from the Dragon stuff and then, you know, build my mortgage broken.

So I sort of just made the call.

And so I could potentially try to hang on for another year.

But the year after was covered.

Like it ended up being a good time to retire footy wise.

And they made the game faster,

which I wasn't suited to because they made everything quicker at the Rucks.

So it ended up being a perfect time for me to go out.

In saying that, like I'm actually still playing bush footy at the moment.

And I like I love that and being able to

give back to the bush and play with so many good mates down there.

But the time in terms of the NRL and that day to day grind, obviously I loved every

day being around the boys and, you know,

bringing that energy to the locker room, but that that constant

up and down, you know, form team wasn't going that well.

Never miss that. Yeah.

Have you any dark days since you left football?

Yeah. So like to be fully transparent, like so I retired.

I was flying like I had a stock portfolio,

which I probably attach my identity too much to and thought I was a man

straight into work and I found that a challenge originally.

Like it was hard.

And

January 2020, my mate who was doing the

broken, maybe he goes on getting out of broken.

So that's boom, curveball, head nearly falls off.

Then about a month later, COVID hits and the stock portfolio goes through the roof.

But that was like seven figures to be fully transparent.

Harmon

and like, you know, from always, oh, it's going mad on the man, whatever.

And the next thing I'm homeschooling my son, my son at home.

And, you know, that first year was rough.

But at the same time, like I still was sweet, whatever.

But I just had all these little challenges in that first year, which threw me.

And it's now changed first my relationship with money.

Like, I don't really because, you know, like I used to be a tight ass and

one of the greats, one of the greats, but now like I'm like, whatever, like it is

what it is, I prefer to have a good time and I've got my money everywhere now.

Not that I have a great deal, but it's I don't care.

Like it is what it is.

So that part one, that was a great lesson for me.

And to keep that shit to myself.

And then then obviously relationship breakdown, me and my ex split up.

So that was a challenge.

But so, yeah, then first couple of years were a bit of a roller coaster coming out

of footy, but the whole time I've been slowly building,

building like all these different things.

So, you know, now

probably the last.

Ten months, 11 months, everything just started to, you know, build up, build up,

build up and like I'm flying at the moment, touch wood like I'm I've finally found my

feet and it's, you know, my fourth year.

I've tried. So it has taken time to get to this point.

And, you know, a few challenges thrown in there along the way.

But like you talk about injury, getting dropped, all that shit that happens,

that adversity that I face now makes me appreciate everything now and, you know,

just appreciate every day because there's going to be curveball comes at some point.

So just have to get the arms out, ready to take it on.

But you just appreciate also when you're

playing rugby league and having a professional contract, you know,

you appreciate not having those external forces have that massive influence on me.

So, you know,

day by day, yeah, training might be tough some some days, you know, maybe you get

dropped here and there, whatever, whatever that might be.

But you're still living the dream.

You don't really actually realise how good

you actually got it and being involved in that.

I'm at this point now and I said this to you at the airport because me and I ended

up on the same flight the other day and I'm just like, man, I fucking love my life

now more than when I played footy like it's unreal.

Like in my day, I wake up quarter to five and it's just chaos all day.

But like it's I'm getting better at the organised chaos.

And but I fucking love it.

Oh, I should.

And if some if you could right now drop five years off your life and there's

a three hundred dollar contract in front of you for a thousand dollar contract

for the next two years, would you go back in and lose everything?

I've built to this point.

Yeah, no, no, no way.

I don't know, to be honest, no way.

Like I said, I've just gone through three

years of roller coaster of different things that I face like professionally,

personally, and I'm now humming like that'd be stupid.

Yeah, no chance.

And that's like I said, money is not

where it's at for me now, like it's about like I'm involved in business.

I'm building business with my mate.

This is my term. This is like about 10, 20 years.

100 percent. I'm going to be way more successful after footy.

That's my goal.

I always think that. Yeah, I already am.

Yeah, yeah.

I've got a good mindset to have.

Yeah, about that.

Like, you know, life after footy is actually going to be bigger and better.

100 percent.

A lot of people say they're like they're

like enjoy football now is the best time of your life.

And it is. It is great.

There's so much you got to make the most of it.

You got to make the most of it. Oh, for sure.

For sure. Yeah, I think because we were battlers.

And

my last five years, I fucking loved every day.

Like because I was like, this could be my last year.

I'm bouncing the train and there's blokes on 800.

They're fucking picking up seeds.

And I'm like, come on, boys.

We just lost. Get around each other.

Like, it's all good.

Like, we're back on on this week.

Like, for example, Devita just retired.

Yeah.

Like, you know, I had that expectation on being that on that money.

Like that must have had a.

Oh, look, I don't want to be conspiracy theorist.

I reckon he'll turn up somewhere.

You reckon you're going to fight him?

Yeah, no way.

Do you reckon like a year boxing and sort of roll back into.

He'll end up back.

He's too young, mate.

Too talented.

I agree.

But they wouldn't let him fight.

So there's got to be more to that story without knowing the insides

and what's going on there.

Yeah, because I look at that situation and like, oh, like, I understand it.

I remember when Sonny Bill left 2008.

I like to me, that was like someone had died.

Yeah, that was crazy.

Oh, don't forget that.

He walking for the airport.

Yeah, back back on, back down, backwards, head on.

I was like, fuck, I can't believe so.

How old would he been then?

He was young, too.

He's like 22, 2008.

I think he's 85, baby.

So how old are you in 90 and 2008?

Maybe like 21.

Yeah, well, far out.

It's pretty 23, 23, 22, 23.

Yeah, that because he won the comp when he was 19 in 2003.

And he had the world.

Oh, 2004.

Panthers were three. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's been 21, 22 crazy decision to make.

Had the world at his feet and just essentially just dropped it all

and just took a different path.

He's in Sonny Bill's camp, isn't he, Tevita?

Yes.

All right.

Conspiracy theorist. There we go.

Yeah, smart one.

It's pretty interesting one.

So you're sort of in like your transition.

Playing semi football now.

Why do you want to still play semi football?

And two, what's the transition been like?

Yeah.

So again, when I kind of

yeah, after last season, having a contract,

I still feel like I wasn't fulfilled.

I feel like I didn't want my journey to end.

Sorry.

What would make you feel fulfilled through football?

Because you basically, besides the ring, it's a very good question, man.

Like, I just feel like my journey.

I know everyone doesn't get the fairytale finish,

but I feel like I didn't really get the opportunity

to kind of leave on my own terms.

And I know that doesn't happen to a lot of rugby league players.

I don't know.

I just feel like last season, man, I just

it wasn't a season that I would like to remember

and be my last, my last year in rugby league,

like something I always dreamt of doing, you know what I mean?

So for me, I feel like just having one more crack, that'll be awesome.

But again, like if it comes to it and I have to retire,

then I'm OK with that.

Like, I'm not scared of evolving.

Like, again, I'm putting all the pieces in the right areas right now.

Like Latsi's saying, you're just building, building, building that.

So brick by brick, I'm trying to kind of,

you know, look, look after myself for life after footy,

which hasn't been easy because I've got thrown

a couple of curveballs early this year.

So what's some of those curveballs you've thrown?

So, yeah, after obviously October is your last pay slip,

you know, coming from the club.

So I had the opportunity to kind of go to the World Cup

and I wanted to kind of reinvigorate my career

and I want to kind of show everyone that I still had it.

And obviously going over the World Cup, you're not really getting paid money.

So I was actually, you know, I was more of an expense,

but an opportunity to kind of represent my culture,

but also to kind of, you know, build my kind of career back up again.

I thought it was a pretty good campaign.

You know, me and the boys, we got to the quarterfinal.

I thought I played pretty decent.

And I don't know, I kind of always thought that everything works out,

everything will work out, everything will work out.

I was kind of having that mentality coming through.

And then, you know, I'm coming in, I'm in January.

I've been living off my savings, not a dollar coming in.

And I was like, what's going on here?

And then I got a curveball, like I ended up having a bad business decision.

Like I had a bad business fallout, which happens.

And that was like a massive dark cloud, dark cloud over my head.

And I was just, it was like one thing after another.

It was just a snowball effect.

Obviously having no club, no income coming in, you know,

we got bills, mortgages, got a family to look after.

And then, you know, having a bad kind of business fallout,

that really hurt because that business that I was involved in,

that was always going to be my transition away from football.

So it wasn't like I wasn't trying to think about what life after footy

was going to look like.

So I kind of put all my eggs in one basket, which fell through.

And I was like, wow, like I kind of almost hit rock bottom.

And then after that, I had some good news, but I couldn't actually

celebrate the good news because I had all that stuff going on in the background.

My wife felt pregnant.

So

again, it's great news, the biggest blessing from God.

But it's another kind of pressure.

Yeah.

So I've got these three things happening at once,

and I'm trying to figure out what to do with myself.

And again, like you don't understand like how good you actually have it until,

you know, it's taken away.

So that's what I kind of really experienced.

And now, like you're saying, it takes time to kind of build yourself back up again.

And I've been doing that this year and now I'm in a good place.

Found balance.

I found something that I'm passionate about.

You know, I'm doing my own thing.

I've got my own business, ClickBuilt, which is awesome renovation.

Business and my background is always building.

So it's kind of something easy.

I stepped into being Lebanese as well.

Just another Lebanese builder.

But if we go the backstreet to training,

like through Wiley Park and that, because I built that when I was in practice.

But can I also say, can I also say, like, if it wasn't for my mate here,

I probably wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now.

Like, he actually threw me a good short ball and he put me in touch with...

That's what 40 Network does, knock some boys out.

He put me in touch with another, a good mate of his, a mutual friend,

and kind of shared the same interests.

And now we're business partners.

And I've got him to thank, like, you know, I'm grateful for him.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like, that's what we're best mates.

Like, we do, we do heaps for each other.

And that's why, that's why he keeps reminding me every single day.

Like, when he got his home loan through another mortgage broker.

Oh, years ago.

Did he?

There's a back story to that.

There's a back story to that.

We don't have to go into it, mate.

Hey, I'll leave that to you.

I want to hear it, I want to hear it, I want to hear it.

I hold on to things.

This guy doesn't, this guy just doesn't work.

I just bring it up as a joke because I'm a joke.

It can't be just a joke because he's brought it up 10 times.

Shout out mortgage brokers.

But yeah, man, I'm, I'm, and then I've just got a gig at Newtown.

Like, that come out of the blue.

So I talk about ego, like that kind of hurt, hurt my ego at the start

because I was like, how did I go from playing in a row regularly

and, you know, achieving what I achieved to all of a sudden

just playing reserve grade.

And again, I just go, you know what, stuff this, I'm putting my ego aside.

I'm going to, it's, I'm doing what I love.

You know what I mean?

I play for a great club like Newtown.

Like, yeah, they're a reserve grade club,

but they're

a great club.

They're great people.

It's a great club and I'm having fun.

So while I'm doing all the other things in the background,

it's, it's paying itself off.

So you put your experience through rugby league

and you use the adversity through there, through injuries,

through getting dropped, through losing GF, stuff like that.

How much more or less did that business one hurt?

Because it was your first one.

Killed me.

Did it?

Yeah, I get that.

That makes sense to me.

It broke me, man.

Just because like, I put pretty much a lot of time and effort in.

He was pumping it on his days off and

putting time in it and it was the face of the business.

Like you would know yourself, like business.

It's like your second baby.

It's like a baby.

It's your baby.

You know what I mean?

And I really saw this as my future.

And when it kind of got taken away from me,

it didn't end up happening to be that way.

It was like, I didn't see it coming.

I didn't.

And part of it's my fault.

I was a bit negligent.

Again, like we talk about footy was my main priority

and the business was like in the background, just, just there.

Like I was just, whenever I had time, I would just, you know, dibble dabble,

tip my toe in the water, whatever that might be.

But again, like I just, I needed to be more proactive.

That's my, that's, I dropped the ball there.

Let's see, what are you doing now?

You said your fingers in a few different pies.

So still mortgage broken, which I went into when I retired.

So like I'm a fully fledged broker now as a credit,

like I've got a credit rep under Oxygen Home Loans, still employed at the Dragons,

which I still love and have that connection to the rugby league club.

Still love that football club.

Obviously I was pretty well traveled, but

I think I played three years in total at Dragons,

four at Penrith.

So they're, they're sort of my two favorite clubs, but I love them.

Which one would you pick better?

Dragons.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Even though they hurt me with like their performances,

but the club's been really good to me post footy as well.

You know, through, supported me through that COVID time

in terms of that consistent income when the broken hit, hit the shitters.

So what do you, what do you do there?

Just do like the corporate things?

Yeah, yeah.

So like I'm partnerships manager.

So I have, you know, say 15 hospitality sort of partners

who like a few of them become like me good mates and then

like just do promos.

And then

ambassadors go away with like the sponsors for an origin trip,

go to Mudgee, like it's good fun, MC at home games.

So doing them too.

So they've been my two main ones.

I'm doing something with the NRL, which is about the change,

which I want to touch on after this.

I was doing like transition mentoring.

So I have like 20 boys in that one to five years retired.

But that, that role will be made null and void soon,

which I'll get to that.

Tommy Simon's my man.

Yeah.

But and then I've got LCR Sports, which I mentioned before.

So I'm in that with Luke Lewis, an accountant

and a financial planner.

So that's just helping athletes build wealth.

You know, first year player, you know, we've got boys who are retired.

We've got soccer players, jockeys, female sports players.

So it's a space, you know, I mentioned about something bad

that happened to me financially.

And I made some other bad decisions when I was playing footy

in terms of how I invested.

So sort of just to take that away so boys can focus on, you know, their sport.

Did you ever have someone like holding you?

Not necessarily holding your hand, but advising you on where to put your money?

Nah.

You know what I mean?

What to do with your brand?

I had Nudo, Nudo helped me.

Yeah, Nudo was good.

He just goes, bro, put your money here.

And I was like, yeah, and that's kind of what I've always done.

So that's essentially what we're doing now, helping the boys.

So it's like index funds or.

Yeah, index funds, like the fund manager.

We do property development.

So I've just gone into one of them myself, which is they're doing the backpackers

on the Goldies.

So I have to keep flying up to check on that, making sure it's getting built.

That's a great business trip.

Yeah, business trip.

Like after the weekend, I don't mind it.

What did you get up to?

On a business trip.

What did you get up to on the business trip?

I got a flat stick, mate.

And then my other two.

So Unite, which is like a merchant apparel business.

So I have that with Louie, Luke Lewis and my mate Jaden Walker.

So doing all sportswear off field for footy,

but we do on field for soccer or like pretty well any sort of,

you know, apparel.

And then we're sort of planning to do a sportswear brand as well.

Athletic Leisure, which is in the process now of getting designed.

And then we've got another side of that, which is Unico,

which is like a marketing agency.

So you're like out stretching yourself for all that.

I was just about to ask the exact same question.

Are you doing too much?

My day's chaos, yeah.

Like I'm working from like 4.

Well, 4.45.

I do morning routine as well.

I could do that every day for about 45 minutes where I meditate,

do gratitude and journal.

Look at like, read like quotes and stuff and like manifest.

I do a few weird things.

Yeah.

And then I work from.

That's not weird.

Yeah, sorry.

No, but like my headspace is like unbelievable at the moment.

And I bring it back to that.

Just building good habits.

But then from pretty well, once I finish that, I'm chaos.

Like if I've got the kids, because I have them every second week,

I'll work for two hours, get kids ready for school.

I've got to train every day.

So I go to the gym and then it's just meetings, meeting, meeting.

Then I'll jump back online at night if I have,

because I'm punching out loans and that as well.

And that's still my main source of income.

Question.

So for NRL players listening to this right now,

how would you advise them financially?

Obviously, you don't have to go into detail,

but what's a like, what's some good basic frameworks that they need to do?

Yeah, because people were telling us just save now, save now.

And back in the day, I was like, oh,

if you get a house cleared up,

the time you finish football, you're in a great position.

That's a dream, you know, paying off a house, you know, in your footy career.

But you've always spoken about it like property isn't the be all end all.

And for guys who might not have a house deposit,

they could put 30K into one, for example, what we do,

manage funds and add $1,000 a month and then you're slowly building it.

You know, you're putting 10 to 15% on that a year, depending on what you're doing.

Pull a bit out, put in one of the property developments

that gives you a return in two years.

So go to professionals and LCI sports is available.

But

if not us, there's plenty of people out there who can help you.

But then if you are going to go into property and I got stitched up

with a bad property, I mean, like my ex-NAT board,

he was a con artist, he was pretty well a con artist.

But I've got buyer's agents who I work with now, I've been a broker

and I've tipped a few of the footy boys into it.

Like some of the capital growth they've had in two years is unbelievable.

So perfect example, like going to professionals

by making sure you do your homework about that person.

You know what I mean?

Go to someone you trust.

Like, man, I'm here, like I now know that industry as well.

But

obviously I've got a vested interest in the financial one.

But, mate, I wouldn't put boys in with people I don't trust.

And there's so many snakes and sharks in the world,

which I found out the fucking hard way, who want to take your money.

And we've got a pretty good reference point in like Elijah Taylor.

Yeah. Oh, man.

Crazy man.

That's sad.

That is so that's one of the saddest stories I've ever read, honestly.

Like, if anyone knows E.T.

Remember that dude bro?

I do mate, I don't know who he is.

Was he like manager or advisor?

Like what was he?

I don't know.

But he come into the Warriors pretty early on and he's doing like mindset shit.

But he come into training a couple of times for Penrith because I remember him.

Oh, did he come to Penrith?

No, not to do stuff with us.

Just like he like, you know, the front door that we used to walk through the gym.

He used to walk through there and sort of hang around that little siding.

Yeah, I remember him seeing him there.

Because he's like, you know, Elijah, he's a he would have just trusted him implicitly too.

He's a very tough guy.

That's that's player managers are that for rugby league players like it's

a sketchy position like because you're putting your full trust in that amount of

I don't show me and you have the same manager brah.

I went to sack him and signed a five-year contract with him.

I remember telling Nat, I go, Nat, I'm going to sack him.

It's just before I went to sign the Warriors card.

I don't give a fuck.

I'm done with him.

When you're after him.

How'd you go?

Fucking signed five more years.

It's just guilt tripped me into signing another contract.

And I was like 22 tail between the legs.

Do you know what he tried to get me with one time was like, I just re-signed with Penrith was going away.

Do you know what he tried to get me with one time was like, I just re-signed with Penrith was going away.

Do you know what he tried to get me with one time was like, I just re-signed with Penrith was going away.

I signed it and he tried to swoop me in with the little one on the side.

He goes, you had to sign this one while you're at it too.

And I was like, what's that?

He goes, oh, it's like my contract.

I was like, bro, at the same time.

That's how you got me.

I signed my Warriors contract.

But I was like, I'm going to sack him.

I feel like that old order of management is like definitely changing.

It is definitely changing.

How would you change it?

I think you guys just got to be more proactive.

I feel like the current managers, I feel like they just outstretched themselves.

I feel like their portfolio, they got like 50 to 100 players and you can't put your time and effort into that.

It's top 10% because that's where the income is coming from.

89% of their income comes from the top 10% of players.

You're not going to give Jeremy Latimer more time at the bottom end of the scale getting you five grand a year when Josh Haddock-Harr is getting you a hundred grand a year.

I think most of us are just leading players on the string, you know what I mean?

Just giving them false hope and just keeping them there, keeping them there.

And then out of nowhere, something might just happen and you just hope for the best.

I'll swim out of this with Artie quite a bit.

But I reckon the way the model is going to work soon is like, like say Cheese, for example.

He's like got to go.

Clothing deal with us.

But like say he comes to negotiate a new contract.

Get a business person that you trust.

I agree.

And then contract a contract lawyer and like, hey, this is going to cost six hours.

This is going to be six hours.

Your fee is $500 an hour.

Here's $3,000.

Help me so I don't get fucked over.

And then take me with them.

There's better business people than me.

But you know what I mean?

That should be the model.

100%.

Imagine being under a million dollars and giving someone $50,000 to do fuck all.

I agree.

And then there's marketing agencies and stuff out there.

Like you say yourself or like what I'm involved in.

We can source third party deals for the top.

It's only the top 10% of players who are going to get marketing deals anyway.

Jeremy Lattimore is not going to get sponsored by anything.

So it's only that top 10% who are going to get the deals right.

That's spot on.

And I reckon we will see that transition away from player managers.

Because what you said is getting that person in to negotiate a one-off deal.

I can.

We help tip someone I know involved in one of our business too.

An accountant who does that sort of stuff.

Who negotiated, took a $10,000 fee for one-off instead of taking $30,000.

You need to do absolutely nothing.

That's a good business model coming up.

So someone wants to get in to player management.

Fuck, I need another business.

Fuck.

Your legs have already been shaking.

But I started saying that.

You're fucking going all over the shop.

But like fuck.

If any of our players are listening to this, that's the way to do it.

Get rid of your management.

Anything is when you're like a little bit.

I think nationalities are really important.

Like you see a lot of the Islander boys.

Totally.

Who are too scared to talk to Ivan.

Because Ivan's not giving you like clear answers.

Yeah.

Talking in riddles.

Yeah.

And then.

Bro, am I playing this week, mate?

I'm starting to feel you're well on the weekend.

Mate, that's the reserve grade coach.

Bro, why are you telling me that on Tuesday?

It's fucking Saturday.

It's game day.

Oh, mate.

Go talk to Breno.

Sorry.

I was going to touch back on.

Because we're talking about transition.

And I wanted to go into this.

And I know they've just negotiated the most recent CBA deal.

And I think, you know, they're handing over the keys to the RLPA.

And.

Shout out Nudo.

Hey, Nudo.

Tommy Simon.

Jamie Drew.

A couple of the great men of rugby league.

But it's a space.

Obviously, I've mentioned, you know, I've had my struggles.

He has.

I don't think there's many people out there that don't struggle with the fact that you

go from doing something you love with 30 of your mates to, you know, trying to build this

whole new identity in life.

Which you shouldn't attach your identity to being a rugby league player.

But a lot of boys do.

Agree.

Agree.

So.

You know, they're really going to go hard in that space.

Which I think is fucking awesome.

Because.

How are they going to go hard?

Like, what's changing?

I think, you know, well, I think in terms of the medical stuff.

Like, I think that was only one year you could get your surgery.

So, that now may be extended into years two and three.

So, you know.

Fucking.

You're getting some done three years after.

Because you might have an issue.

And you flag it.

But then two years after.

You're like, fuck.

This is really fucked.

And you've got to go back.

Mate, it's on you.

It was only 12 months you had it.

So.

And obviously, that's.

These are.

From my understanding.

Why this CVA took so long.

Is because.

These.

This little shit.

In terms of transition and well-being.

Which isn't little stuff.

Because.

You know.

We've lost blokes in the last five, ten years.

Who have necked their self after.

You know.

Transition away from rugby league.

Struggle with different things.

So, it's such an important space.

To help athletes rebuild their new life and career.

And.

But it's up to the boys to then make the most of that.

And.

First through education.

Like, doing things when they're playing footy.

But also then.

Actually transitioning out the workforce.

And getting after it.

Yeah.

How much do you reckon the game's evolved?

Like, I look at young players now.

Crazy.

It's crazy.

Like.

We get eight weeks off back in a day.

Fuck.

And see you later.

I'll see you November 1st.

Haven't done a lick of training.

Mm.

These guys are like.

Doing training.

They might go to Bali for like.

Four or five days.

And train twice over there.

But it was also an old man's game.

Like.

Now it's just a young man's game.

Mm.

Like.

It's just the average age in NRL.

Like.

It's just crazy.

Like.

You look at Penrith for a perfect example.

Like.

It'd be crazy.

Yeah.

Like.

Yowie's one now.

And he's like.

Yeah.

He's doing.

He's been in the NRL for 15 years.

He's just hit 28.

He looks very weathered.

Big Yowie.

He's putting his head where the sun don't shine.

Yeah.

100%.

But.

Yeah.

It's definitely changed heaps, man.

What were you going to say?

No.

I was just saying.

It's just changed heaps in terms of like.

Just the age demographic and stuff.

In NRL.

Like.

I feel like.

They're very valuing.

Like.

The player.

The younger they are.

The more upside and value they have.

But like.

In the NRL.

But.

You know.

Global sports.

Like.

You look at the guys that have done everything.

Like.

They're the most well respected.

And it's the reason why they were respected.

I feel like.

They've done their trade.

They've applied it.

And.

You got the unicorn.

Lebron James.

Oh.

Far out.

39.

Still dominating the NBA.

Even like.

You know.

Guys like.

You know.

Kobe Bryant.

Like.

For example.

He played what?

Until he was 40 years old.

Or something like that.

Cam Smith.

He barely misses games.

Touch wood.

Yeah.

I like.

I like.

A lot of the younger boys.

Because obviously.

The position I'm in.

They come in and ask questions.

And like.

Say.

Like.

One of the older boys.

And.

You know.

Like.

We all know him.

But like.

He was asking me questions.

But he felt uncomfortable asking me questions.

Shouldn't be that way man.

And he prefaced the questions.

Like.

Hey bro.

I look up to what you do.

But I don't want to suck your dick here.

Like.

Just.

I was like.

I went to this.

This mentor yesterday.

And.

You know.

I asked him.

I want to kind of pick someone's brain.

And.

I told him.

I go.

Oh no.

Don't worry about it.

Like.

I just flipped it.

I don't want to be an ass licker or anything.

Just don't worry.

Don't call him.

I don't want to talk to him.

He's like.

Why not?

I'm like.

Oh.

I just don't want to.

Don't want to suck up.

I don't want to hassle him.

He was.

What do you mean?

You just want to ask him a question.

Like.

What's the big deal?

Like.

You know what I mean?

Like.

You know what I mean?

Just.

Just throw yourself in the deep.

Just.

Just go for it.

Like.

What do you got to lose?

A dent to your ego.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like.

I was going to say no.

Go on.

Go on.

Go on lads.

Go on lads.

No.

I was just thinking about throwing.

Chat out on Instagram.

And you get the scene.

No reply.

See my bro.

I'll keep moving forward.

100%.

You know what I mean?

If it's meant to be.

It's meant to be.

I'll throw it back to sort of the locker room.

Where you were doing like modeling shots.

And all the boys were taking you out.

And I remember being at the RLPA dinner.

I think it was the start of this year.

And Dan Carter rocked up.

So like.

Specimen.

The goat.

Got his boots in the back there.

I can see that.

Hey.

Shout out to him.

But I remember being in that environment.

And he goes.

Oh.

Any questions?

And none of the boys were asking questions.

Because they're overawed.

Yeah.

And it's like.

They're scared to like.

Put themselves out there.

So I was like.

Fuck him either Mike.

I'll be asking heaps of questions.

Yeah.

We can get an insight into his mentality.

And what made him tick.

Every single day.

And even Nicco Hines right.

Like.

I didn't realize.

But he's like.

On game day.

He goes down to the park on game day.

And does these routines.

And I heard he's the ultimate professional.

And these are things I didn't know.

Like obviously.

You see a bloke playing.

Like.

He goes good.

But.

There's these boys here.

At the top of their game.

Who are doing all this extra shit.

That no one.

Realizes they're doing.

Like timing to the body.

And.

Mate.

No.

Mate.

He was.

Out on the field.

I was already in the car

heading home

when he was still

doing his first goal kick

straight into group chat

hey boys what's going on

any copies given him out

mate but yeah

he was unbelievable

and like you know

like and you as well

as anyone

because you were out there

longer like why he's

at the top of his game

because he's just grafted

he could go on

and coach an NRL team

tomorrow

I reckon too

easy

he's so smart

I'm interviewing him

next week

coming down to Rome

on here

oh how good

yeah yeah

but gotta go out there

we've got the couch

warm for the boys

oh yeah

I'm in our

Penriths and Tuff

left

have you not

nah

probably since

I lived there for a little

bit when I transitioned

out

changed so much

bro

so much

it does look different

it's cool though

for the better

like it's getting

better and better

and because when

they do the new

airport

I feel like that

airport's been coming

for like 20 years

big geefs holding

all the land out there

but I actually

can't believe I lived

there for like 11 months

I couldn't handle it

did you live out there

I'm gonna tell you

he sent me that

he goes

thinking of going

to England

I go bro

you couldn't last

like 12

months in Penrith

you're not gonna last

the year

we'll put a Penrith

I was in Leno

I was like

pretty much

I was down the road

from my

Penrith

oh mate

I just

I could have

I could have done it

but

go tell us

go

give us the rundown

don't worry

it's all good

I don't want to look like

so what are you

actually doing now

like what's

obviously

Lassie just spent

the last 45 minutes

telling us about

his pies

I don't think

I could get a word

here to be honest

again like

yeah playing

footy for Newtown

I'm doing that

what's the business

part of it though

like my business

click build

so it's a renovation

business

we tailored to

like pre-sale

properties

like people wanted

to prepare their

investment

and put it on the

market to

you know

earn maximum value

so you get like

furniture and stuff

like that

everything from

like man

like renovating

the house

like flipping

my home

the best thing

about it

I don't

kind of like

want to over

capitalize

and put a hole

in their wallet

we also got an

option where

I've partnered

with a financier

where we can

defer the whole

renovation

and then we get

us paid on settlement

so it's

it helps the

owners heaps

we'll also do

rental

like so for

investors wanting

to kind of

get more rental

income

which is

the market

at the moment

rental is

absolutely

booming

you would know

as well

and so going

there

fully refurbished

and also commercial

do a massive

shop fit outs

new developments

pretty much everything

I'm just saturating

the market when it

comes to construction

I'm doing as much

as I can

and it's been

pretty cool

it's been something

that's really

fulfilling my cup

feeling my cup up

and do a bit of

media work for

nrl.com

me Rene Gardner

catch up with

her every Wednesday

preview and

review games

and so I'm

kind of

dabbling with

that and I'm

also like just

doing a bit of

PT work

I think that's

the biggest thing

like when you

kind of go away

from rugby league

like the biggest

strength we have

is we're always

training right

so I feel like

that's the easiest

kind of transition

I've noticed

I was contemplating

I was going to

open up a gym

or not but I

just felt like

it wasn't the

right time to

do it and

I just came

out of a

you know

kind of big

business venture

I kind of

now I'm

starting with

click build

I just wanted

to kind of

build that

and yeah

it's been

pretty good

I'll ask you

the first question

I'll ask you

the second question

because they're

different

what's the

biggest lessons

that you've

learned from

football that

have helped

you translate

into business

that's a

good question

man

I know you

still knew

when so

what's the

most obvious

ones for you

just to kind

of embrace

the hard times

they're not

going to last

forever but

there's so many

valuable lessons

that you can

kind of get

out of it

when you're

in that kind

of tough

position like

all you see

is kind of

the negative

and you know

if that's

been

interesting

injured

you're kind

of asking

the universe

what does

have to

happen to

me

just get

out of

that kind

of mindset

and think

about what's

next

just live

in the

moment

it is

what it

is

you take

the good

and you

take the

bad

and I

feel like

hardship

definitely

shapes you

to the

person you

are

if you

don't

experience

those

hardship

times

you're

not

going to

grow

as a

person

if life

is just

so easy

you're

not

going to

really

learn on

the run

and be

independent

I guess

I feel

like

just embrace

it and

get all

the learnings

out of

it

I'll ask

you the

opposite

question

what's

some

things

from

football

that you've

seen in

sports

that haven't

transferred

over to

business

wow

good

question

do you

want to

hear my

one

first

one

in

sports

for one

person

to win

someone

else

has to

lose

and I

used to

feel like

that in

business

I feel

like

let me

hold all

the secrets

here

if I

win

you have

to lose

but

I feel

like in

business

everyone

can win

you can

win

I can

win

there's a

lot of

pie to

be shared

there is

yeah

and that's

how I

see it

and the

stuff that

sort of

happened

with

scope

earlier

in

the

year

like

to

me

I was

like

fine

take

that

pie

I can

just

create

some

more

ones

and that's

the thing

that kind

of frustrated

me

someone's

got to

win

someone's

got to

lose

for a

spot

to win

the game

yeah

to win

a business

deal

yeah

and like

see

like

I know

you

can

get

loaded

we all

can get

loaded

and do

fun

stuff

but

that was

one that

sort of

took me

a while

to really

figure

out

that's

a good

one

yeah

I don't

know

like

trying

to

think

that

that's

like

hearing

you

say

that

like

that

makes

sense

I was

going

to

ask

it

the

other

way

around

but

it would

have

been

a bit

harder

for

sure

man

like

and

because

there is

so many

synergies

when you

do

transfer

across

yeah

it's

just

super

entitled

yeah

but

like

yeah

that was

kind

of

the

one

someone

asked

me

that

question

and

yeah

I never

thought

about

that

because

I think

of all

the

other

things

yeah

but

no

I don't

know

that's

like

in a

team

you

can

rely

on

your

teammates

to

help

you

out

but

once

you

step

out

of

that

environment

the

only

person

you

can

rely

on

is

yourself

man

so

yeah

I

think

that's

a

pretty

big

lesson

as

well

like

it's

always

making

sure

you're

prepared

like

at

the

end

of

the

day

the

only

like

obviously

there's

a

couple

your

close

family

are

gonna

pick

you

up

when

you're

down

but

most

other

people

aren't

really

gonna

give

a

fuck

you're

on

your

own

bro

like

they're

worried

about

you're

in

your

own

little

world

or

whatever

and

everyone's

got

their

own

shit

going

on

100%

everyone

as

now

as

they

get

older

man

like

people

different

troubles

business

troubles

divorce

separated

you know

no money

because

they're

gambling

drugs

like

there's

just

that

many

things

out

there

you

don't

realize

because

a lot

of

people

keep

it

to

themselves

and

as

you're

getting

older

like

you know

when

you're

a kid

and you're

like

what

are

mum

and

dad

fighting

about

now

I

get

it

why

is

mum

in

the

mood

life

ain't

that

bad

you're

coming

home

from

school

I

tell

them

every

day

I

tell

them

every

single

day

you

have

to

realize

these

are

the

best

years

of

your

life

you're

getting

fed

you're

getting

your

bum

wiped

you

have

to

go

to

school

hang

with

your

mates

you

get

your

lunch

made

for

you

in

the

morning

you

come

home

your

lunch

is

made

for

you

you

sit

on

the

couch

you

go

to

bed

you

get

10

hours

of

the

cucumbers

on

and

you're

back

going

at

it

smell

the

roses

I

got

that

off

my

mate

Shane

Gregory

from

Port

Macquarie

when I

made

my

day

to

you

and he

goes

mate

congratulations

but always

make sure

you smell

the

roses

so

that's

why

I've

always

like

I've

got

a

confidence

about

me

but

fuck

I'll

talk

to

anyone

and

try

and

be

as

humble

as

I

can

because

I

never

think

I'm

better

than

anyone

but

you

gotta

be

confident

so

I

want

to

touch

on

something

you

said

Dan

about

like

the

challenges

in

life

and

all

the

different

shit

how

adversity

makes

you

stronger

and

I

feel

like

kids

these

days

and

you

agree

with

this

it's

like

mum

and

dad

are

protecting

them

like

the

younger

kids

these

days

are

so

protected

and

obviously

social

media

and

getting

smoked

on

social

media

from

bullies

or

your

peers

or

whatever

but

I

just

feel

like

young

kids

are

a lot

more

protected

and

insulated

from

the

troubles

of

the

world

these

days

they've

got

all

the

answers

right

on

the

phone

I'm

going

to

have

to

ask

someone

like

back

when

more

kids

like

you're

getting

pornos

and

hiding

them

at

home

exactly

why

is

his

pages

so

sticky

why

is

his

stocks

so

stiff

I

just

feel

like

with

young

kids

these

days

I

feel

like

there

is

a

sense

of

entitlement

like

phones

are

number

one

cause

of

that

like

they

just

type

in

their

phone

and

they

get

the

answer

just

like

that

we

never

had

that

opportunity

when

more

kids

growing

up

what

are

you

guys

giving

your

kids

do

they

have

iPads

iPads

not

phone

my

eldest

is

10

and

I

said