Hey guys, welcome back to Ebbs and Flows, where we talk about the highs and lows on and off the field.
Excited for this podcast today, here over here in New Zealand, at Wise Nation.
Tamari, Chanel, thanks for jumping on, boys.
What's up, brother?
Bro, obviously we've been talking about doing a podcast for a few years now,
so I'm looking forward to chopping up with you.
And Tamari, great to see you again, bro.
You guys have sort of followed a similar pathway, like very talented juniors coming through,
through NYC teams, rolling into first grade quite easily,
but have pulled away from breaks through medical and just personal choice.
But what's it like sort of being back in the system right now, and how has pre-season been?
Bro, I mean, it's always different.
Obviously, I had a different way of why I stopped,
but it makes you appreciate coming back to 40 a lot more,
having it taken away from you for a bit,
and then coming back.
And you just appreciate it.
I appreciate the little things a lot more.
I worked a normal job, bro, straight away, coming out of it, and it just wasn't for me.
And you get to come into an environment where you're close with everyone.
You've got boys in here, and it just makes it a lot easier, bro.
And you just, like I said, you just appreciate everything a lot more.
What sort of work were you doing?
Driving bulldozers.
Yeah, so it's a four-on, four-off thing, but two days, two nights.
It just gets lonely, bro, gets lonely, just sitting there by yourself.
You go from being in a team environment to just working on your own.
Yeah. What made you get into bulldozing?
It's just the work that goes on back home, back down Taroa.
It's sort of like your sort of thing that you go to.
For farmers, they might be farming, but for us out there,
it's what everyone does for a job.
And we're pretty lucky that it is there.
Our hometown's got this little mine site there, so everyone goes there.
And it pays well for what it does, but yeah, it's different, bro.
Bro, it's not the same level, bro.
I didn't realise you were born in Tokoroa.
Born in Tokoroa, yeah.
My mum's from Mangkino, not far from there.
Well, that's a bit dangerous, isn't it?
You blink and you miss it, bro.
Sometimes you want to miss it.
Nah, we get back there quite a bit too.
But yeah, born in Tokoroa and then moved to Taroa on the other side, West Coast.
Sort of similar to you, like where we grew up in Toke,
everyone either works in the forest or they work in the mill.
And that's what they do.
My dad's just been a shift worker his whole life.
And they get good money and they can provide a good life for you.
But I remember just looking at that mill, and it's called Kenleaf.
I used to look at it and go, fuck, I don't want to do that.
They used to scare me, bro.
So it was pretty fun.
It's different, bro.
If you're not, yeah, if you have the opportunity to get out of there, you do.
But if you don't know any different, it's just what you do, I suppose.
You're just there.
It's sort of like how
you have kids that grow up around gangs and they don't know any difference.
So they just go in the game.
But you might have the odd one that just
thinks differently and wants to do something different.
They get the opportunity to go somewhere else and they will, you know what I mean?
It's just how it is out home.
It's natural. It's easy.
And it's a lot of people, you know, New Zealand culture.
It's hard to go anywhere.
You just want to be home with family, real family orientated.
So, yeah, it's a little bit different
moving away, but I find I found for myself, it's way better, way better.
Home's always going to be there.
You sort of said that there's the small things about rugby league that you miss.
What's like the most minute thing that you
can think of that you appreciate now that you didn't used to appreciate before?
Probably the being able to exercise, bro, with as it being a job.
Yeah, I mean, like being able
to exercise, you know, we're doing reps on the field.
You know, sometimes we're doing five or six k's.
And gym on the same day for a job.
You know, if you're working, you're working a 12 hour shift.
You've got to do your own gym after work
or before work and then run at the same time.
It's so easy to pack on the beef, bro.
I was working for a couple of months and I was just chunky cheeks.
I've got the chin under here, starting to go like this, starting to wobble at the bottom.
But just having that, like, you don't have
to pay for it, you don't have to pay for a gym or anything.
You're doing stuff, you're doing reps,
you know, keeping keeping your body healthy and it's a job.
Pretty lucky, bro.
What about you, bro? I've been interested in your story for a while now.
I watch you come through Junior Kiwis and the flick kicks and the long hair and all that stuff.
Got some balls to do some shit like that.
But it's more so when you sort of transitioned out.
What was the reason you transitioned out?
And was it like, was there a certain moment
in your career, was it a certain day or was it just a gradual build up over time?
I think it was a bit of both, like sort of a gradual build up.
And there was one moment where it sort of sunk in a bit more.
I was coming off contract at the end of
2022 and negotiating my next contract around April.
we played against Melbourne and the Anzac Clash in Melbourne.
And I ruptured my testicle.
And at the same time, I was thinking about, yeah,
it's very painful, but at the same time, I was already thinking about not playing again.
And when that happened, I had a lot of time to
just chill by myself and, you know, think about things that I wanted to do
stuff like traveling and going to see new places and having new experiences that
you can't really do during the year when you're a footy player.
And yeah, I thought about the possibility of having
a break and being 22, 23 at the time, I thought even if I do take a break and
decide to come back, I'll still be young enough to get back
into shape and hopefully get another gig somewhere.
And I've ended up where I left back with the boys.
And like it's sort of made my
made my decision easier, like knowing all my mates were still here.
I've got Wade, Rocco and all these boys around me.
It makes it a lot easier to come back and come back in.
Yeah. So what was like obviously that injury happened.
Fuck, that sounds scary.
But like, what was the thought process when you're on your own?
It's just like, fuck, I've had enough or I just only got one testicle left.
Just got to look after that now.
Yeah, I don't know what the thought process like I was talking to my agent,
I was scared to tell my agent first and then once I told him I was keen to do it,
then I had to tell my parents as well.
And then once I told them I had to speak with Cam and it was sort of
long, long process, but short in a way.
And once everyone knew, once I got out in the media, then it was sweet.
honestly felt like stress free after that, like playing the rest of that year.
I went into games not not caring so much
about the result and just enjoying my footy.
And like we didn't have a very successful year that year.
But I finished we finished off the year pretty well with the Tua Samoa team.
And that was that was one of the
things that made me think, do I still have more footy in me?
Yeah, just playing with guns like in that and that World Cup, we got Krita and Jerome
Luai, Bizza, all those Penrith boys, I learnt so much from them and
knowing that Webby was coming back to the club, I was in the back of my mind.
There was a piece of me that was like, maybe, maybe I could come back.
Yeah. Do you ever regret a little time away?
I don't regret it. I feel like
I did what I wanted to do, like I got away, I got to travel to lots of different
countries and see different places, but I'm happy where I am now.
And I think I'm happier because I know that I've done it and there's no voice in
the back of my head saying, imagine if you took a year off or because
I've already done it, so like I got to do that and now I'm back.
Is he carving, bro?
That's a Mr. Beat, that's a Mr. Beat.
Still no look passes.
Yeah, they're on.
So, yeah, obviously, what did you do in your year off?
You just park up in Samoa or something.
Don't say it, don't say it.
So after the World Cup, there's some travelling with Nath.
Yeah, I heard about this.
What was the crew?
Patrick Kerrigan.
We had a little crew there.
Good crew, good lads.
Yeah. So we went to Barcelona, Paris and finished off in Rome.
And that was my first time going to Europe for the World Cup.
And yeah, all those places are so close once you get to the UK.
Yeah, it's just an hour, an hour travel, an hour flight to.
Did you like all those places?
Loved it. Barcelona was gone.
The beaches there and yeah.
It was a nice place.
It was a beautiful place.
After that, I went to America.
My sister's studying in America, so I met her in New York for Christmas.
Sick. It was freezing.
Yeah, it was so cold.
And when I got there, they lost my luggage.
So I had to go and buy clothes.
But I spent the week.
We stayed on Wall Street, so it was pretty cool.
Yeah. It's not that big.
It's pretty tiny. Not that big.
Yeah, yeah. Real small.
But New York, there's so many things to do there.
After that, I went to Samoa.
With the tour team, because they paid for us to go and stay there for a couple of
weeks to do a parade and everyone was still going off.
Like the World Cup had finished two months ago.
There were still no parades around.
We had police escorting us around the island.
And then I did so many things.
Went to Bali and Thailand for a month by myself.
That was pretty cool.
And then went to America with my schoolmates later in the year.
That was just a big piss up.
So the first six months, I was sober.
And then when we went to America, that was like the six month mark.
And my mates that I was traveling with, we were all sober for six months.
And then once we got into the New Zealand lounge, we were like, nah, we're breaking it now.
We can't go to America sober, go out and look like creeps.
What made you guys want to go sober?
Because the way I think, I'm like, fuck, I'm finished football now.
I just want to go for a beer and do whatever.
It's a part of travel for me, especially if I was your age.
I've been sitting on Barcelona Beach and getting on the piss.
Yeah, well, look, I think because there's so many challenges that come with footy that
you kind of like some of the challenges and once you leave it, there's not much to
really test you, especially if you've saved up some money to travel and everything's
pretty easy. So like if you just have something that's
going to, where you can practice some discipline and doing it with a little crew
makes it easier as well.
And then breaking it with them was mad as well, because we went to L.A., Cancun,
New York and Washington, D.C.
My mate had family there, so.
after that, I went to South America with Wade Egan.
Yeah, I spent two weeks there and that was a good stint as well.
And then once I got back from that, I was just like, I'm ready to get ready for
pre-season because I don't run in 12 months.
Yeah, that's crazy.
What's it like being back, bro?
Like, obviously, when you left, it wasn't like they weren't the Wilds they are now.
What a change for some of the biggest changes that you've seen.
I mean, everyone always points out Webby and that's the obvious one.
Like, he's just, he gets it.
He knows how to relate to the players and he knows how to work and have fun, like
have a good balance between those two and also having like a mad playing group.
And I don't know, there's just no egos at all.
It's easy to hang out with anyone in the crew.
And when you've got senior boys that are leading it and know how to have fun as
well, you just, it makes it easy to rock up to training and work hard.
What's your thoughts on obviously the Warriors at the moment?
You've been around to a few different clubs and seen a few different things.
What makes what you guys have right now special?
Yeah, just what Sepp said before is that there's no egos.
It's easy to get along with one another.
You know, there's no,
we don't even have a leadership group.
It's just, it's just how it is that everyone knows, everyone can talk to everyone.
You know, sort of back in the day when I
was first coming in, it was sort of harder to talk to the older boys.
Like, it was a bit, it was a step there where it was different.
And I feel like here, everyone's talking to everyone, eh?
Like everyone's doing their own review, doing their own little stuff that they have to.
You see like little Lukey Hanson will go up to Shawnee and be like, bro,
how do I do this different? How do I do that different?
Everyone just talks it.
And it's no, there's no egos.
It's just, it's easy, bro.
And it's just one big, one big family.
You can almost say that's what makes it easy.
And why everyone gels so well, just the way Webby's brought everyone
together and like Sepp said, is having fun, but knowing when to switch it on.
There's just no, yeah, there's no one.
Yeah, just easy because everyone's just so close with everyone.
It just feels natural.
Yeah, it doesn't feel forced.
A lot of times culture feels forced.
You can almost force it on and it just, it's shit.
But I feel like, yeah, it's just natural and it's just done easily.
I talked to the boys before about like the Māori culture, how it sort of ties
in and obviously being a New Zealand team and having a country behind you.
Proud Māori boy, what's it like to come
back into a place that really dives into the culture, you know what I mean?
Yeah, it's mean. It is different.
It is different than other clubs.
They don't have it. They don't.
And it's going back to Webby again, he knows how to coach
the group and us Māoris and Islanders are different than your usual like Aussie
players, you know, that you've got to understand them and know that how family
orientated we are, like last week I had a funeral and I had to be out for the whole
week, you know, he gets that kind of stuff.
Yeah, you might go to a normal coach and hey bro, I need the week off.
What do you need a week off for?
But there's so much stuff to plan for, like food, all the people that come, all
All the prep that goes into it and that's not even the actual funeral day.
But he gets that kind of stuff and he tries
to understand where everyone's coming from and it's just different.
That's the culture we have.
And that's where everyone respects him
because he tries to understand and he does understand on where we come from.
Yeah, that is cool, eh?
Like you get an Aussie coach and you're like,
family member dying, like, oh, how close were you?
Yeah, almost feels like that, eh?
It's like when you see the recovery pack and you're like,
make sure you take a picture of you down at the beach doing recovery.
We ain't doing it, but trust us.
With Moisa at the farm, we're doing it.
So obviously you guys play similar positions and
there's a sort of a battle there and there's an open spot for you guys as well.
And like you said, it's different when you're from New Zealand because it's like,
let's just try and make each other better where you're played in Australia.
It's like, fuck, I want to do whatever I can to step on top of you.
To get that position. What's it been like been battling you out?
yeah, it feels different, bro.
It's just, I feel like, well, I feel like we're all happy whoever plays there.
That's the feeling I get.
Like, there's no like, fuck, this cunt's a shit cunt.
I don't want to, you know, it's just like whoever plays here, bro.
It's, we know that Webby's choosing the right players.
He wants the team to win.
So either way it goes.
Because whoever plays there, we're going to have a gun fucking cup team.
Obviously, whoever's missing out, me, this fella, Lukey,
the other two are playing cup.
We have a partner, Sean. We're going to have a good cup team, bro.
And that's the same with centres too.
Like, we've got some gun centres.
We've just got some good players. Everyone stays fit, bro.
We're going to have some, we're going to have a gun team.
You need, I reckon you need 23, 24, like with suspensions and head knocks.
That kind of stuff.
And that's what's mean, bro.
Like, our opposers and that, it's just tick for tack.
Like, it's close.
Oh, it's good, yeah.
We've got the both, well, obviously we've got the same core, same everything.
And it's just everyone knows their roles.
Everyone's clear and we're pretty huge on that.
Webby's pretty huge on clarity.
Like, you can't, you can't be your best unless you're clear on your role.
And everyone's clear about little, little
stuff that we're practising it throughout the pre-season.
Like, it doesn't seem like it means much.
But when you get into 13 v 13, it's just everything's so much easier.
Like, everyone's just, you just see, bro, after trainings and that, like,
how dedicated all the boys are to getting better, like doing their own review,
like I said before, and all that kind of stuff, going to the coaches.
It's changed so much, eh, bro?
It's changed so much.
Usually, like, when I first come in, it's just training, do your gym,
you're straight out of there, like you just want to cruise.
Now it's like, we've built this culture here where
everyone just wants to be the best, wants to be their best, you know what I mean?
I think because the boys have seen the
evidence as well, of what, like, I've heard a lot of boys talk about this
time last year when they were still learning the system that Webby was trying
to put in place and they were still on the fence with it.
Like, yeah, new coach, he said, come in, we're going to win a premiership.
We had six coaches in, like, four years.
So we'd heard it all before.
yeah, now that they saw what happened
last year, when they start to see that the system was working, I think everyone's
bought in and me and Roger sort of just jumped on the back of it.
And we're keen to help out where we can.
Couple of nice guys to come through.
Yeah, helps, helps.
You need talent to win, win games.
And like, obviously that Broncos game is like,
and they were just slinging the ball out to the outside backs.
And those boys could do things that some of your boys couldn't.
But it makes a difference when you've got guys who can do things.
Just make something out of nothing.
Especially as a half-a.
Try a pass and just push up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just do those ones, put them back into here.
Nah, that's crazy.
So obviously, Jazzy was talking a little bit about off the field and you're into
your fishing and hunting and got some sort of merch and some content coming out.
Trying to. That's exciting, bro.
Yeah, we're getting.
I love hearing about stuff like this and
stuff like you walking away because that's sort of the space I'm in.
So what are you up to with plans of that?
We're just getting the ball rolling, bro.
I've always been pretty shit at, like,
like capturing, like hunting and fishing and that, like social media wise.
And I'll come back in and talk to the boys like, fuck, that's mad.
Like, you should put it up and like, do this, do that.
And I was like, I don't even know if people like that.
So I brought Jaz along and he's a bit more social media.
He loves the camera. He likes being about it.
He's good in front of it too, to be fair.
He loves it. So I've been bringing him along on a few missions.
Playing with ideas at the moment and trying to get some merch out there,
like hunting, you know, like fleeces at the moment.
But you're just getting the ball rolling
because, yeah, I think we we know that footy doesn't last forever, bro.
You know that 100 percent.
Trying to get something where we that we
still enjoy and getting the ball rolling on that after footy, even during footy
still now, just trying to get stuff happening.
Yeah, we've got we've got a lot of ideas, bro, which one of them works.
Give it a crack anyway.
Yeah, as long as you're giving it a crack.
Yeah, that's nice.
What are you into outside of football?
I'm I have no idea, but I'm going back to study to finish my studies just to have
something business. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I just want to finish my bachelor business.
I started it in 20s and finished one year of it.
like these guys, like I've had lots of ideas, but just no execution.
I'd rather have like three years of study.
if an idea comes up, then I can do do that.
Or if nothing comes up, at least I've done
something instead of three years of ideas and then three years of nothing.
Question if you had three years of just trying ideas of business,
do you think it'll match up the same as a business degree?
So say each year you try to start a business on the outside, you might fuck it up.
Yeah. But the next year you try different.
So after the three years, you've tried three
different businesses compared to a three year business degree.
Do you think that will match up?
That's a good question. What do you reckon?
Three years of trying businesses instead of doing a business degree.
See, the way I sort of see it, especially with football boys, it's like,
let me study rugby league for three years where you learn all your lessons.
Where? On the field, yeah.
No, that's true. I think business is the same game.
So, yeah, I'm not trying to throw you off anything.
Yeah, yeah, sort of.
Yeah, it's good where we are at now because where we get pretty easy free time.
Right, footy players get the most time.
And that's a big conversation I have
with the boys where I was like coffee, coffee, swim, basketball, coffee on a day
off where our office is in Alexandria and I seen Jerome Luai, like he was having
meetings with like GDARP and different people and stuff around there.
I think guys need to start moving like that on their day off now, too.
Why you got the resources around you?
Because once football stops and you guys start ringing people again,
those calls don't get picked up. You'll get them in two rings now.
After that, you might get a call back.
In two weeks. Sorry, mate, missed your call.
Yeah. Jackson's been mean at that, bro.
Coming from YKTR and that.
He's been running little meetings with us on how to use like our social media
platforms and shit like stuff that we actually need today.
Doesn't come naturally.
Yeah, some like, like especially me, like I said before, it's not natural.
And then you get like jazz and that giving up, you know, give them a bit of stick.
It's hella fresh and that, but he's getting paid for it.
Like, fuck, no one's going to remember that when you're finished anyway.
It's a good eye opener, bro, because Dodgy's there, too.
And we've got mean media people that they can help us out in that space.
Because like you said, once footy's finished and you try and suss stuff out,
it doesn't doesn't work the same way. It doesn't work.
When I was on that Penrith speech last
week and I was like, how many guys have multiple streams of revenue?
And only three guys put their hands up and it was Nathan, Isaiah Yale,
and Tyrone Peachy and no one else had like nothing.
And I was like, oh, how many are you trying to do it?
That's a little bit different.
Like some guys are still trying to make it.
But I found that really interesting, too.
That was just like, shit, no one's really moving this way yet.
And like in New South Wales, the average income for someone is eighty thousand
dollars and there's a thing called debt to income ratio, which basically means how
much people, how much money you owe people in Australia.
Every dollar that you make, a dollar ten is owed to someone else.
So a lot of the guys that are going to move back into the eighty
thousand dollar job, most of that money is going to be owed to someone else, too.
And just even them hearing stuff like that, they're just like, oh,
but then they all start panicking, too.
Then the DMs start going, oh, fuck, I need to be doing something now.
I don't think you need to rush into anything.
You just kind of need to move like gradually.
And the way you move isn't always like, oh, let's start a business.
It's like it might be, bro, I'm going hunting.
Let me take a sponsor out or fishing would be easier.
Hunting is a little bit ruthless.
But like, say if you started tomorrow,
fishing charters and you went out and you had five sponsors on there every time,
you know, there's one they're paying to come on, they might pay two and a half
thousand dollars, five people that what's that twelve and a half K for a day's
fishing, you start moving like that, bro, it's a network.
Now, if this is on thing, this is this is happening.
So we're not stealing your idea that
Jazzy kind of loosely.
yeah, like, you know, the corporate people that come to the games and that they pay.
They just want to hang out with you, bro.
The idea was to sort of take a few of the
boys fishing and then bringing them along and paying for it.
Imagine paying to hang out with Jazzy.
I'd pay to not hang out with him.
But then you mix it up because obviously I talk to Stace and Stace is keen on fishing.
And then I was like, fuck, there'll be people pay big money to fucking fish with Stacey Jones.
Do you know, do you know, like the sponsors around the outside of the field?
It's different for you guys.
You guys got vertical ones, digital ones.
But like the ones around like Penrith and stuff, like guys are paying like fifty
K for like a sign there.
I know this guy and he spent fifty K to be the sponsor behind the coaches.
You know, when they go to a coaches box and there's all the stuff down there.
Because, yeah, I got it for fifty K.
And I was thinking, fuck, no cunt looks at the coaches box and go,
bro, what's that sponsor behind there? You know what I mean?
So if you could grab that sponsor there, turn it into fifty K for you guys.
Easy money and the networking part's really interesting, too,
because a lot of business people want to hang out with sports people.
Sponsoring any teams?
No, we wouldn't have the money to, like, I wouldn't do it.
Yeah, because it's like a million dollars to be across the front of a jersey.
So they pay that.
And then obviously naming rights for the stadiums and stuff.
A lot of money because it's always at the front of you.
It's like one New Zealand Warriors, one, one, one.
You know what I mean? Yeah.
So you got to pay for that.
We should just cover the jersey and sponsorship that and get heaps of money in that.
Nah, but fuck it.
Like, I don't know.
I just find the stuff like I just find like a lot of players just don't really
maximise leverage while they have it and then all their worth is tied up just
to being football players and you guys have been there.
Like once it goes away, you kind of lose
that identity of who you are and what you're trying to be for your whole life.
And the big one is, bro, and you sort of loosely talked about this is like in
football, like you've got goals written like, all right, we're here to win the comp.
So you kind of just flow into that goal where when you're on your own, it's just like,
like you kind of get like a little bit lost there because you don't
really have that thing to work towards every day.
No, no purpose is a big one.
It's pretty scary, though.
I find hanging out with
thinking people helps, bro.
So like I've got an older brother, he's got his hand in a few different things that
bring him money and he's got a little like canteen, he's got a house somewhere and
he's getting little stuff like vending machines and all this kind of stuff.
Yeah. And just talking to people, you just it's contagious.
Yeah. Like thinking, like talking and thinking, you start yawning away to me like,
oh, yeah, and then you start I'm starting to think like that, too.
And I've got I've got my own little things doing, but
it's good to get the ball rolling while you're still playing footy, getting all
good money and, you know, if you try something and fuck it up,
it's not as bad as when you're out on your own and you're not getting that income.
Still, you know, I mean, so it's just less risk.
Do you know the biggest like the biggest
thing that scares people off in footy environments is just getting paid out from
The idea past the changing room,
like the changing room kills more ideas and like the world would, you know what I mean?
You ain't going to do that.
Yeah. It stops a lot of boys from even trying.
Yeah. But say you say if you film like a six
part hunting and fishing series and that was spot that you could actually get the
show sponsored as well. So like you said, you just look through
when you go out on the field next time, flick around before the sponsors who's
there could be hunting and fishing or they could sponsor the show.
You could do anything.
Yeah. So if you have three sponsors on the show, so say podcasting, for example,
this is how this works. So you get sixty dollars per thousand listens.
So if I get ten thousand listens, that's six hundred dollars.
So then if I have three ads on there, that's eighteen hundred dollars for one podcast.
And you can relate this back to sports because everyone plays the same 80 minutes,
but not everyone gets paid the same amount of money.
I mean, Roger probably gets a little bit more because he's doing a bit more.
And it's the same like you never want to be trading your time for your money.
You want to be paid for your value, not your time.
And that's a big one.
So you might do a six part series and you might have three sponsors on that show.
And they might be hunting, might be sawn dry, blah, blah, blah.
And then you get paid for that.
Get the Hellensteins ones in there.
And you know, and that's that's just how it works.
You go content, you go brand and then you sell a product after.
And you've got to own the equity though.
That's a big part. Like, don't get fucked over for equity.
Yeah, that's mean, but I like that kind of stuff.
I'm always just just talking to people, just yawning away.
And like I said, I just got all these ideas and fuck.
Which one of them kind of sticky nice.
And I like doing stuff that I enjoy doing, like that's that's probably the next part
I was going to say, you have to do something you're passionate about because
when it gets hard and there's no money coming in, like you, you'll do it for free.
And you're already doing it for free.
So you might as well turn it into some content and get rolling.
All right. So we'll swing it back to football a little bit, obviously.
Warriors aren't a surprise package anymore.
Guys know that you guys are coming.
Are you guys leaning in towards that expectation or how's that working?
We're actually talking about that yesterday as a as a club, actually, is the expectations that.
We have that the public have that everyone
have on us to perform well next year or this year, sorry, and I think we've just got
to embrace it like we haven't really been in this space for a long time being the hunted.
We were sort of the hunter last year and we've moved into that hunted
being in the top four last year.
I think it's a good challenge for us, but something we don't need to look at too
much just to we just need to focus on what's within the club, what's happening
in our team meetings and whether he's sort of driving the focus
and we just jump on board with him.
How do you how do you block the outside noise or do you let the outside noise come
in and give you a buzz?
Yeah, you can you can talk about like not listening to it and don't go on social
media, but it's always going to be there.
We've just talked about what's in these four walls is what's important.
So people can think what they want.
They can put up their predicted teams, whatever.
But whatever happens in these four walls is what's important.
that's all the trust and all the backing up and having each other's back.
So that stuff comes that comes along.
And it's just the noise is always going to be there.
Just learning how to.
How to, I suppose, feed off each other and not let that get to you.
And it's hard in New Zealand because like
when you're winning, it's like all the time, eh?
But man, it can turn on you pretty quick.
It can turn bro, it can turn.
You hate it very quick.
Like scare some teams off, you know what I mean?
And the boys are talking before and I
remember Shawnee putting up that Marco content last year.
He goes, it wasn't always like this.
And had a clip of him running out in the whole south stand.
There's like no one in the south stand.
So it's just trying to maximise that window you guys are in right now.
We spoke on windows in the last podcast,
Adam leaving the club.
And to me, I think every club needs a guy
when when you're in the other team and their team runs out.
There's that one guy you kind of look for and you're like, fuck,
you're right, because you can put on shots, but
not anymore. I didn't come back to put on a shot.
And a year off, body's fresh.
But like, like I said, like we've got Adam leaving.
Obviously, Shawnee's getting like a little bit older as well.
You guys sort of looking around going, fuck, we need to get our hustle on.
Yeah, well, Jairz ain't going to do anything.
Jairz ain't scaring anyone.
Yeah, it's not just like his game as well.
It's like the way he is off the field.
He's just, I don't know, he's got an addictive personality, easy to get along with.
So anyone in the club.
Yeah, no, he's going to be a big loss for us.
But I'm sure like Webby's trying to create
a system where it doesn't really matter who
who leaves the club.
The next person is the next person.
Next man up mentality.
Sort of what, like Penrith.
They've nailed it.
Guys leave and they just keep rolling.
They keep getting better.
Yeah, it's the system.
It's the system, how it works.
And like, like no shade or anything,
but like when they had like Sean O'Sullivan plug in for seven games two years ago.
And I think they won like six out of those seven.
Yeah, it just shows how strong that system is.
You were Sean Johnson thing growing up.
Was he was he your guy? Yeah.
Yeah, he was my guy. Him and Benji.
Definitely. Yeah.
Because obviously you play in a flaring kind of way.
What's it been like?
Obviously, seeing him on TV, getting to play with him and then now getting mentored by him.
What's that stage? Yeah, I think.
Shawnee, he's so he understands the game so well now, especially after
he's had a few different coaches, he's he went to Cronulla, came back and he's just
got so much experience and I feel like he wishes that he had the experience with his
twenty one year old buddy, like every every half is like that as well.
Like Jonathan Thurston, Cooper Cronk and all those players,
if they had their mindset back when they were younger.
That's just part of what you know, you got to get experience to get better and
to have him at the club another year is just.
So lucky, his insight into the game is so invaluable and
every time there's a team meeting, he's always talking and you can tell when he's
talking, everyone's listening, but you're not going to not listen to the half
the Dalian halfback, you know what I mean?
He's real clear, he's real clear on his role, he knows what he wants.
Him and Webby spent a lot of time together on game planning and the rest of it.
got, not slow, but what he was like before, like electric, he makes up for now
and experience and he can he can you can be over there and he'll be looking at you
with his eyes and he'll play at the back real early.
But you'll see he sucked you and somehow he's he's got that thing at the moment we can.
He doesn't have to dig that far into the line and he still sucked you in.
And I mean, as a defender, like when you're doing left first right and then
he'll play that early, but he still sucked you in from, I don't know, just experience.
He's just can't you can't teach you that it's not like a thing that's been taught
where we're running right into the line to try and engage you and then playing at
the back and getting smoked and the rest of it.
But he can just it looks like he's playing in slow motion.
And I've had the same thing with Thurston, too.
He used to be able to do the same thing.
I don't know what he does.
It's like you get sucked in with his eyes and you're staring at him.
And then they smell the balls over there.
And do you reckon it's because they're like the history and the highlights and
stuff like you just kind of have to respect it and know that they could do something
just like that, especially with this and they've both got elite dummies.
But like Thurston's one, this is like,
you know, in video, just don't fall for the dummy.
Don't fall for the dummy.
So when he's coming up, you're just going next minute.
So I feel like Roger was left for that.
It's coming, left foot, left foot.
I said left foot.
It's the thing about that, too, bro.
The pro will be over there and he'll step and he's way over there.
Yeah, like, fuck.
And his step's good, bro, because it's not like he's not stepping to avoid contact.
He's stepping still, still to go forward.
He's still moving quick.
Well, like, like Shaun, he could like step away to not get touched.
Yeah, Roger steps like he knows he's going to beat him.
It's like you're not even there.
Yeah, it's like, fuck.
And I've seen him tear.
I've played against him.
He's got to the fullback.
I think it was Michael Morgan, bro.
Yeah, just whack and then done.
Oh, I've done his pick. I remember that game.
I was playing Roger when he first coming
through and he actually cranked Moyza down, like he got a line break.
And Moyza was trying to cover him like that.
And I was chasing from behind.
That bro just went tink, like, no, like that's the sideline there.
Had about two, three meters, but I just left him and Moyza just came.
But I remember being behind it.
I remember just hearing like the thud on the ground.
And I was like, oh, no wonder he's
bouncing over there, if he's generating that much force through his legs.
His calves are like this.
Yeah, his calves are just left on there.
Honestly, I don't know why he wears socks.
It would be ankle socks every day.
They're so nice to look at.
They're always, they're always oily.
I remember when he used to walk up for the Waz when he was the captain.
I was like, I felt like he used to wear his uniform the best.
Like we used to talk about random shit like that.
He looks cool when he wears his uniform.
Reecey Walsh looks cool, too, when he wears his like random shit.
That doesn't even matter.
They always look moisturized.
And like freshly shaved.
He needs double razors to shave him.
Bro, I had JT in my notes here, but now I'll just talk on him.
I think you were at the Broncos at the time and he interviewed you and you said
a cool line that I always remember and he goes, you taught me to lead with effort
and everything good happens after that.
What are some of the other lessons that he taught you?
That's a cool one.
That was the main one, bro.
If he wasn't setting up tries or something, he was just always there.
Not he was always there.
In case, like if he's they'll do a shift down the left, he's on the left edge,
they'll shift down the left, attacking our right and he'll be there and you'll see
him make the tackle in the corner, he's just there just in case he doesn't do it.
He just effort, there's always effort, but there's a lot of little things you don't
see, too. But like.
You see all the set up tries and that, but you don't pay attention.
Unless you're a footy head and you watch it all the time, you don't pay attention
to those little, when he's covering across, he might make the last tackle.
And like you see line breaks and that, bro, he's always there.
Someone scoring, he's always there.
Like Adokabe running down the side, he'll come from this side and you know he's not
going to catch him, but he'll just cut him off.
So that makes the conversion a little bit harder.
And you'll just watch that.
He just trains the way he plays, bro, just effort, everything.
Yeah, like he was winning our Bronco when we were still playing his last year.
After me, but he was alright.
I had a coach saying one time where they
said he's worth his weight in gold on tackle five on defense.
And like you said, like when there's line breaks, he always seems to be around the
ball, just got a knack for it. He just doesn't stop, bro.
Yeah. The other one that reminds me of is like
Payne Haas, playing with Payne Haas, I don't know if you watch him closely,
but he just he doesn't stop. He just keeps running.
It's like for a big boy, it's hard work.
I walked past him on the Gold Coast the other day, him and Tavita
Banga were doing hills and I walked past him and I was like, fuck, like, bro,
he's he's an athlete and it's scary how big he is.
Sucks, bro, like trying to tackle him.
Like you just think take his legs, he'll just pop it off.
Try and take him while he bumps you off.
And he's fast, bro.
So obviously rolling into this year, rolling into trials.
What's the plans for this year, boys?
What's the personal goals?
Mine's just injury free, bro.
Yeah, I've had a lot of injuries in my time and I'm just
just trying to do everything away from footy, like ice bath and little stuff like
that, like extra stretching, drinking water, just trying to
do the best I can, because like last year's broken leg, that's just
That is what it is, yeah.
But if I can minimise all the other stuff, like little tight calves and all that kind
of stuff, then I'm happy to. Footy will look after itself.
But yeah, for me,
it's just staying on the field and just play as many games as I can.
Yeah, I love that.
When I was talking to Ivan the other day, I was like, what's the biggest thing that
you've noticed with like playing groups in like 10 years?
And he said, he said, we leave nothing to chance anymore.
And he goes, we don't even have to control it.
Like, so I was talking to him, walk through Penrith changing rooms,
like there wasn't a guy standing over the ice bath going, all right, you get in,
you get in, the boys are just doing it all on their own.
So I saw that, walk past video room,
the whole video room is full, there's like four people waiting to get on,
watching all the drone of their trainings, stuff like that.
Went into the, like, do the speech with him,
but all the boys are like zoned in, like their best players are sitting
in the front of the video room and like paying attention.
You know, bro, it's changed so much.
Like you said, we said, if at Manly,
if we weren't out by 12, boys were blown up, like, fuck, what's this?
That's what, and Webby gets that, eh bro?
Like he can feel like,
when the trainings ain't at all, you're not there,
he'll just be like, oh, boys, that's enough.
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, because you can't, you're just, you know, flogging a dead horse sometimes
and it's just blues in the room, but he just gets it, bro.
Yeah, he gets, he gets the playing ground, he just, yeah, it's easy to say hello.
You know, some coaches, bro,
when you're walking out in this real awkward conversation, like sometimes even
if the young people don't want to talk, they'll walk right around and make sure they miss them.
And sweet boys say, like, it's sweet to talk to, he's sweet to talk to, you know what I mean?
It's not like, fuck, I'm walking past him, what's he going to say?
And I've had a few coaches like that, like, fuck, I don't want to see you, really.
He's just sweet, bro.
I was like that at five when I was younger, I was like, scared to walk past him.
Or scared to talk about anything other than footy as well.
And you just mumble, eh, like you just, when you say something, you'll be like,
you know those awkward dairy ones, bro?
Like, they say something, you say, oh yeah, you too.
You know you say the wrong thing?
He's like that, but you say the wrong thing, you're like, oh, that's so polite.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You ever say polite, you too?
You just think about it, you're like, fuck, think about what you're saying.
What about you, bro?
Yeah, pretty much same as Tamato, I want to stay injury free, especially coming off a year off.
Like, it was hard to get back into.
Are you coming out the line first trial, or what?
Yeah, I can see you trying to put a shot on, eh?
I'm choosing to kick off.
Or you just catch it and take the head up?
No, I just want to be, like, I want to help the team win, and wherever I play, whether
it's in the halves or off the bench, or even if I'm playing cup, like, I want to help whatever
team I'm playing for win, and that's what, that's the culture that Webby's brought to
the club, and that's what I'm here to do.
I saw a talk before with walks in that, like, how much the forwarding jerseys change and
how important they are.
Is that sort of something you could sort of see yourself doing?
I can see myself in the forwarding.
Like, if I get in the middle, just fucking can't see.
Yeah, like, I've played a little bit of hooker before, and it's not my first preference
to play in the middle, but, and, yeah, tackling those big boys, but if that's going to help
the team get to where we want to get to, then, yeah, I'll 100% put my hand up.
Who do you spot if you get hooker, eh?
Like, you know they try and find a little hooker in the middle?
You're not saying spot Chanel.
You're getting dudsed.
They might, nah, you know what you do if it feels like putting on shots, you'd send them
to get them, like, into contact early.
So, it wouldn't be so much about the contact, it would be more so about the repetition.
So, like, yeah, so he might put a shot on the first one, but then if he's making three
a set, you'd be able to get him out.
I'll just go third, man.
Knowledgeable assist from the inside.
I'll do four shots in one set.
I'll put my hand up like it's nine.
Rolling subs, moldies.
Bro, what do you like, like, obviously,
halves, naturally, you don't like when we want the ball in our hands.
What do you like it?
Like, just putting on shots.
And at the start of my career, I thought it was just, it would be something cool to have,
Yeah, as a highlight and, like, just being known for, because it's not really, halves
aren't really known as good defenders.
So, I thought it was just cool back at the start.
But then I remember Nathan Brown came to the club and then he pulled me into his office
and he was showing me.
All of my hits that I've done, and he goes, yep, that's fucking stupid.
Don't do that again.
And then he was like, get out.
I didn't do another hit since then.
He pretty much just told me, like, there's no point wasting, wasting all my energy on
hitting people like when you're the halfback, you've got to get the team around the puck.
And if you're a 5'8", you've got to kick to the corner and, I don't know, run your plays.
Just save your energy.
Fuck, that one on Tommy still gets me.
Hey, Tommy Turbo.
That was a lucky one there.
Proper blindsided.
I liked the Liam Martin one, too.
Oh, I was full concussed after that.
Yeah, that was mad.
Oh, did you get it?
Another one, yeah.
I'm going to fly and he's gone.
I thought I was going to fly away.
You're going to go back to the NZ like this.
Thank you for your time and jumping on, obviously, as an ex-old boy of this club.
Hopefully, you boys go good this year and go all the way.
So, thanks for your time.
What year did you play, bro?
My last year here was the year we all made the GF, like our whole club did, yeah, 20s.
I was in cup and then Shawnee and Nat was just doing his thing.
Was Tommy still here then?
Nah, he come after.
Was it afterwards?
He could hit two, eh?
He's another guy.
And there's Marcus Perenara.
He's from, oh, you know Henry Perenara?
Fuck, he could put shots on too.
It is nice when you're half.
You can put on shots.
Would it be nice?
It's been you, eh?
Tomorrow, just hold your legs, bro.
Just trying to get them through.
That's why I'm getting dislocated fingers, bro.
I'm jersey pulling.
I'm jersey pulling bitches.
I've seen that video, like.
Bro, he's spraying his under-nines to him.
Oh, have we talked about that in the last episode?
Have you seen it?
It's so funny, yeah.
He's just spraying them.
He's spraying them.
They're like four years old.
Thanks for doing it, bro.