Api Koroisau Is Only Getting Started

Hi guys, welcome back to Ebbs and Flows where we talk about the highs and lows on and off the field.

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Today joined by a three-time premiership winner, former teammate and in my opinion,

one of the best hookers in the game, if not ever, the king of the art of deception,

Apikura. So what's up baby? What's up man? Thanks for having me.

It's been a while, it'll be good to catch up. First thing we like to do on this podcast is

just check in on our guests and how are you bro? I'm good man, I'm good. Off-season now,

it's been a tough year over at the Tigers bro, so it's good to get a little break now and

obviously first time getting the invite on the potty, so happy about that too.

You were actually meant to be my first guest on this podcast this year,

remember I was reaching out to you, I was like I'll wait till the boys get a win but

sort of dragged out a bit bro. That's right. But yeah, obviously final time now,

it's at probably

time of the year that you're used to playing with your past couple years and

picking up a few rings there. What's your thoughts on the current premiership

right now? Who do you think could win it and do you think anyone can stop Penrith

getting a three-peat? Yeah, I think, like you said, the competition's like really

good this year. Obviously I think Brisbane have a really good chance

against Penrith but just the way they're playing, obviously they've got a lot of

you know, form behind them as well the last few years man, it's gonna be a tough

one.

I think anybody on their day can win it but yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a good

comp.

Do you, obviously you were in that, in the Sanctum there for a while, will Ivan be

talking about like three-peat or would he be trying to sweep it under rug? Is he

sort of low-key like that or do we lean in towards it? Yeah, look over the, over

the last couple years, it was actually mad, they were themed, the years were sort

of themed and it was all about climbing Mount Everest, you know, when we first

won it in 21 and then for 22 was about being, you know, going from great to great

again.

So, you know, we sort of rode that as far as we could so I'm sure he would have, you

know, done something along the same lines there with, you know, theming it and making

sure it was something that everyone was aware of rather than trying to just, you

know, brush it under the rug.

I know those themes are quite big in rugby union culture and I know the All Blacks

have been really big on it, the Roosters have been big on it. Obviously when we played

it was just sort of just rock up and do your best or you're still playing now but

how did you find those sort of themes basing around the season?

They were mad, honestly, like it was just something else to buy into.

Outside of the actual footy aspect of it. So yeah, even that, when the movie Maverick

came out, I think it was Top Gun, the new Top Gun came out, like that was implemented

like in and around the place and video sessions about like how we could, you know, use that

sort of army-like style and get off the plane, you know, go do what you got to do and then

get back on the plane and just get out of there so I loved it man, you know what I mean?

Like it just gave you another way to sort of wrap what you need to do into a different

package.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Different visual and then run with that on the field so I think after one of the Grand

Finals we had like little aeroplanes and sunglasses and cigars over the top guns.

Aviators?

Sorry?

With like aviators on and everything?

Exactly, yes, that's the one, that's the one.

Did you get them off Mighty Tabal?

Oh, Jesus.

Shots fired, that wasn't me.

So you're obviously a very three-time premiership winner, must feel good hearing that. Your

first one?

Yeah.

Pretty crazy and like, I don't want to make this about me but I went through an experience

from reserve grade to playing in like a test match. You went from reserve grade to playing

in the Grand Final, which in my opinion is 10 times harder than what I'd done. What was

that experience like bro?

Oh, bro, it's um.

And sorry, were you glad that you were young when that happened?

I really, yes. Now like when I think about it, the fact that I was young really helped

because I don't think there was any real pressure or like understanding through my older experiences.

So it was just like, I was young, I was 21, I'd played some of the year when I was like,

20 when Isaac was out, played a few games with him and then I thought I was going back

to reserve grade, Madge told me that I wasn't playing. And I was like, yeah, that's sweet,

like Isaac's back. And I was like, yeah, that's cool. And then he was like, but yeah, but

you're not going to play Cup either. I was like, oh, what do you want me to do? He's

like, no, no, you're just going to chill just in case another injury happens. And I was

like, all right, sweet. That was eight weeks out from the Grand Final.

Oh, so you didn't play eight weeks leading into the Grand Final?

No, nothing. Eight weeks bro. And I was like, oh, okay, sweet. He's like, yeah. So every

Monday I'd come in by myself and just get flogged on the field at Redfern. It was one

out and I was like, this is horrible. Like it was just, anyway, I was like happy to do

it. I was really young at the time. And then when they, yeah, thrown into the Grand Final

I was like, honestly, like my whole world just went like from this laid back guy enjoying

watching the games, like boys are going to win the Grand Final as a part of the team.

And then all of a sudden I was in that game and I was like, damn. So got the phone call,

went straight to the park.

Because I'd been just bendering for eight weeks.

Oh, I heard you.

Right. It was like, like you said, at the time I was young, like I was on a training

trial deal that year as well. So I had no expectations of like playing first grade.

I wanted to, really wanted to, but I just didn't expect to be like in with the team.

And then, yeah, so that last eight weeks I was just enjoying myself, me and young guy

really just loose at the time. And yeah, I just remember getting the phone call.

And at the shops, I loaded the car and I jumped in the car straight to the park where Malcolm

still sprints around the field. I was just trying to burn everything off. And then, yeah,

when I actually obviously playing the game, just, I just remember everyone telling me

just soak it in. Don't try and ignore the noise or like it's going to be loud. Just

you have to actually soak it in, acknowledge everything that's happening. And then, yeah,

I can barely remember like actually playing the game. It was that fast and I was that

tired. But yeah, I think the experience of like.

Not playing too many games or being in too many big games sort of helped because then

I just went out there and played footy.

What was the biggest, like what was the sort of, I remember Bully took a photo of you and

he said like, this guy's going to kill it. I forgot what he said. What was the sort of

the moment for you that you're like, fuck, I'm actually in the grand final? Was it in

the game before the game or after?

No, definitely before the game. So there's just so many events that happen. There's promos

you got to do. You got to head into the city. You got like fan days and everything. So the

event was quite packed, full of like commitments that you got to do as a team. So there's like

people watching you train and there's just so many people around Redfern. There was an

event in the city. Got to get to the star as well for lunch. So it was like that whole

sort of lead up to the grand final. I was like, bro, like this is it. And I think as

well, the story of how Bully got suspended and then I'm going to jump in as well made

it sort of feel like I was in the grand final.

Yeah. Would have been helped having some guys around.

Look at Reynolds is rolling into semi now. Luke Carey's picked up. I think he's on three

rings at the same time. Obviously, Burgess and Inglis. What type of leadership was coming

from those guys at that time for you?

Oh, bro, it was massive. It was massive. Like there was blokes like GI. I think like he

said to me personally, like, you got this lad, like we all trust you. But I think he

said it in the paper as well.

Yeah.

And I know that the paper shouldn't mean as much as the, you know, the personal interaction.

But for me, it's like because it was public.

And it was like, yeah, like, he'll do the job, blah, blah. And I was like, man, like

these guys, even if they don't trust me, they got to play me anyway. And they know I'll

do the job. So it's like, either way, I just got to go out there and play footy. And other

guys like obviously Sam Burgess, really looked up to like John Sutton at the time. He was

playing great footy. And there's a lot of other young guys in the team. So for me, it

was all about just going out there and just trying to do my job, man. Just don't fuck

this up.

Bro, it's actually, I remember that thought of like the eight weeks, not even playing,

been doing, fuck, it gives me anxiety now.

I can tell you, my head was falling off.

Yeah, the ignorance of youth. So your path to NRL wasn't always like, you weren't like

a superstar kid coming through, were you?

No.

How'd you make it to NRL?

Got spotted at a grand final, I think under 17s. And then got tipped off to someone at

Souths, Mark Hughes. And then Mark Hughes said, they'd already picked the Souths 20s

team.

Oh, sorry, the SU ball team. And he goes, if you'd like, go to North Sydney Bears. So

just trying to just trial there. So I did the trial, made that. And then after that

year in SU ball, he took me to Souths 20s.

Oh, cool.

Yeah.

How'd you go in 20s? Were you like standing out or was your game starting to develop?

Yeah. So I was a halfback my whole life until I went to Souths. Mark Hughes was like, look,

we sort of see you as a hooker instead of a half. And I was like, yeah.

That's the worst feeling, eh, if you're a half?

And I was like, you know what?

I would have played front row just to get into any sort of 20s system or anything like

that. I was just that excited to speak to somebody that was with an NRL team, I guess.

Because I'd never made any rep teams growing up. I was always too small or all these things

they were telling me. So yeah, I got to 20s. We did pretty average the first year. And

then I played the second year of 20s. And I think we made the first semi and ended up

losing.

Yeah.

But yeah, sort of just enjoyed taking.

What I knew from halfback or the dummies, like I was always the show and go guy. But

from dummy half was even better because then I could like just show one way, try and send

markers and then still pass the ball, give our guys time on the outside. So I just went

there, 20s, 20s. Did train and trial for first grade, my first year. Just played cup 2013

and then train and trial again in 2014. And then ended up debut.

Just picking up a ring.

Yeah.

Just got my own there.

You sort of talked about it and I was going to touch on it like a little bit later, but

while we're here, your deception and I've been lucky enough to play with you. And I think

you're so good at it that people don't even realize how good you are at it. And it's all

like very subtle, different things. I watched this thing on Israel Adesanya about city kickboxing

and like all the little head fakes and yeah, you know, the kicks and stuff like that. You've

got that in your game, but from a fan from the outside looking down, wouldn't really

notice it. But on the field, we notice it. And I know definitely if you're on the other

team and you're first marker and Alfie's fixed you up, you'll fucking notice it.

So, but honestly, I haven't seen anyone do it like you. You said it come from halfback,

but do you want to sort of break it down a little bit more for us?

Yeah. So I don't know everything that I sort of learned growing up with like being small,

the small guy, you had to sort of pick up little things in your game to sort of try

and come out on top, I guess. You know, you don't have, I guess you've got the quick footwork

and like a bit of speed, but you know, just trying to like beat players.

And for me, like when I went to hooker, I wasn't going to burn anyone going sideways.

Like I feel like I have some speed, but I'm not like super fast. So I just sort of try

to build my game on like trying to get rid of the markers. And once I started just like

half dummy from dummy half, and then people would go up like, oh, wait, I think I can

do this. And then started figuring out defensive structures. They're like, when you're at marker,

you got to go get the halfback or you got to work from the inside. I'm like, if I can

just half show this way, this guy's gone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

This guy's gone. And then this guy stuck by himself, you know, like, and then I started

realizing people started to get behind the rock. If I could send one guy, get out, hold

one marker and then punch this guy in behind the back. And then all of a sudden, like the

nuances from the hip fakes or the shoulder fakes. So you don't actually throw the ball,

pick it up. Oh, sorry. You do pick it up, but instead of throwing the ball, wasting

time, you just shoulder roll. Oh, okay. Yeah. Shoulder roll. And then they half go and then

straight away, it's one-on-one with the marker. And then you can put someone in behind the

rock. I feel like you're even throwing them off a little earlier than that. Like when

you're running into a rock and you're sort of like looking this way, is that part of

the plan or are you actually looking that way? A hundred percent. So on the way to the

rock, I'm telling like the other guy, I'm like two step or whatever behind the rock.

So I'm already telling, I've already told him. So then like, by the time I get there,

I'm already looking to the left side and he knows I'm coming either way. So, or like

anytime someone calls the ball, if they've caused like last year was they've clearly

calling the ball.

Or Luke Brooks, like they'd stand there like, yeah, this shape. I'm like, yeah, sweet.

And I just looked the other way the whole time. Yeah. Just like body position, everything

looks like it's going right. As soon as that ball comes out, like just picking it up and

then launching it. So.

Baz, I had a big thing of like coming onto the ball square and like you do that really

well. Do you want to talk about what that, like to someone who doesn't understand the

game, how important coming onto the ball square is from, from the nine position?

As in like when you're going to pick it up?

Yeah. And you're going to pick it up. Oh, you probably do it the other way where you're

shoulders are facing everything this way. You're kind of swinging back that way, aren't

you?

Yeah. Well, like one of those things too is like I had to practice those. Like my passing

game was horrible when I first jumped into like number nine. You know, just a dummy half

pass is, I feel like completely different to a standing like seven pass or like a running

seven pass. So, um, yeah, a lot of the time it was like coming into the rock at the wrong

angle and then like trying to pass the ball. But once I started to pick that up, you know,

I just trained it for so long that, yeah, I'm probably never square when I approach

the ball, a dummy half until, until I can pass the ball.

Breaking all the rules, bro.

Exactly. Trying to anyway.

Yeah. Um, so for anyone who doesn't probably understand the game, probably the worst thing

you can do, um, as a defender is get fixed up at marker. And what that means is say like

up, he jumps out and he gets you and they tuck him behind cause it kind of just fucks

up your whole set and you just roll from there. Um, where do you find the balance between

hitting Nathan Cleary, doing your own stuff and actually running? Like I know a lot of

hookers can get caught into a full on passing game. Um, some can get caught running too,

too much. I feel like you've got that nice, really nice balance in your game.

Yeah. A lot of, um, a lot of what I understand about the game is momentum or that's my main

goal is like, I'm just trying to get momentum. I don't care how it comes, whether it's going

to the halfback or, you know, putting someone in behind the rock or taking the run myself.

So it's easy to sort of see when I know that my role is momentum. So when I see someone's,

you know, not making it back to a, or I can see the markers.

I'm quite set. Then I sort of understand what needs to be done. If, if the, if everyone

is set and it's a perfect defensive line, slow play the ball, it's, it's either take

another one in to try and get momentum or give it to the half. So then he can play something

and get momentum. Yeah. If we already got like a half, half someone, not all the way

back or not making it back to the line, then I know that is the play. Like, it doesn't

matter what shape's on. Doesn't matter. Like that's the play right there. So, um, yeah,

I'm just always watching like usually A's and B's.

Um, and especially the third, like third man back, if they're late, like we're coming,

we're coming. Yeah. Um, so with the rack ID, so obviously looking at markers for third

man in, um, is, is the defense system still first marker to the open, um, second to the

blind? Is that still how it works? Yeah, that's, that's, that's pretty much how it's worked

for me, the clubs that I've been at every club. So, um, yeah, it gives yourself a bit

more space at that second marker to go short side and not get burnt by the half.

Fixing up a second marker, you're in trouble, eh bro.

Exactly.

Trying to, um, obviously went from Souths, got to meet you at Penrith. I think I've picked

you up from the World Cup, didn't he? I remember him watching you, um, play a game over there

and he said, oh, there's sort of something about him. What was it like going from sort

of Souths and just coming straight, you probably signed at Penrith probably early, halfway

through that year at Souths. What was it like coming out to Penrith and sort of that transition

into Manly as well? What do you remember from those years?

Bro, um, I think it was, Souths had like a nice set up, like at Redfern. It was all,

um, pretty new, pretty new. Like everything was like nice. Um, gym was new and then I came

to Penrith and it was still under the stadium. So it's still like the old, like the old school

sheds and, um, there wasn't enough space in the, in the first locker.

Oh yeah.

So all the young guys had to sit on the outside and I was like, what is this? I just came

from a club where they were like, oh, everyone's together. One team, doesn't matter if you

played a hundred games or whatever, like made you feel included.

Yeah.

So I was sitting next to blokes who had played like heaps of games and that, and then went

to Penrith and I was like, there's two separate like locker rooms. And it was like me, Wonga,

Blake, um, George Jennings, these young hooligans, man. It was like, um,

Just piling your bags on top of each other.

Exactly right. There was no, there was no real lockers. It was just, I'm sitting on

those benches, man. So, um, it was, it was definitely different, um, in culture, um,

when I first got there, but yeah, I think as well, I was still so young at the time.

I was really enjoying just being a part of a first grade team.

Playing, playing rugby league and in the NRL. Uh, but yeah, I don't think for the two

places at the time, it couldn't be more different. Um, but yeah, you learn so much from those

like experiences and especially at an age where I'm at now, like just seeing, um, how

much of an effect like that sort of culture has on, um, has on the players itself.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, so we sort of roll into like, obviously, um, Penrith then

play some really good games, develop some form there, picked up a pretty big contract.

Yeah.

With, uh, Manly and with Baz going over, I went over there just to hold the pads for

your boys and shit like that.

You will man, you will.

Nah, just a social.

Social captain.

Yeah. Social, everyone come down to Wharfie. Let's go. Um, yeah. What'd you learn over

at Manly?

That, that felt like for me, that like exactly what you just said from Souths to Penrith.

I feel like from Penrith to Manly, cause to me it was weird. I like, I looked at Manly

at like this big glamor club. They live on the Northern beaches and we got over there,

like all them boys were still getting their boots out of, out of their cars.

Yeah.

And we didn't even have lockers there. We just had a wrestling mat.

Mate, and we were showering at the back of the fire hose, pre-season day, right?

Yeah.

All the boys bring their soap. Yeah. No, it was, um, where once again, it was just like

a strange, strange time. Like first got there, he had those, what, those office sort of like

block offs, those.

Prefabs up there.

Yeah.

Around the mat. And, um, we were just sitting on the mat. We were like, that's where we

were getting changed and ready. It was, yeah, it was, it was a weird time.

Um, when I first got there and then.

Do you know what that, do you know what that year felt like for me? It felt like you're

in high school. Like, you know, like everyone had their own like crews and stuff. Like I

remember at Penrith, because there was no one who was kind of a superstar, maybe not

Matty Moore had just started to break out.

Yeah.

Um, there was no one that really, really stood out. So everyone kind of got along over there,

but then you went to Manly and it was like guys had run a couple of competitions and

they were older than obviously all the chairs drama was happening at the same time. And

we were just rocking up thinking we'll be mates of everyone.

It kind of wasn't really like that, was it?

Yeah. It was, yeah, it was, it was, it was a strange, strange time. Like, but like, it

was like the guys like, um, Steve Matai, Jamie Lyon, like huge superstars of the game. It

was like, it was crazy being around them like first of all. And then, yeah, like you said,

it was just, everyone was getting changed in like just that middle bit. No one really

hung out like outside of footy, um, except for like the new young guys who were probably

partying a bit too hard.

Um,

but yeah, like I, I think the footy as well was, was, was pretty, pretty average that

year that we first got there, 16.

And it was kind of a weird one cause, um, there'd been some big signings obviously like

yourself, Marty, Dylan Walker had come over as well. And then you had those, all those,

um, old heads that had been there before. Ches is just first year into his big deal.

So, um, it was just kind of a letdown for everyone, wasn't it?

Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And, um, yeah, I felt sorry for, for Baz at

the time too. Like, you know, he was obviously rookie coach, you know, trying to get his,

his team off the ground and yeah, there just wasn't much happening around the place. Um,

yeah. I put my own hand up there too. I was probably just enjoying, you know, being a

first grader a bit too much, trying to play some footy, but, um, I enjoyed that time,

man. Like there's some great memories with you especially.

It was good bro.

It makes me sound like a bad influence bro.

No, no, no.

I actually started YKTR from, remember the back of my Manly car?

You did bro.

Yeah bro.

You did. I still have some of you, like the original kids that come out.

Yeah.

Straight on AS color.

That's it. That's it.

Um, so bro, like obviously one of the biggest decisions you made, there's always this noise

around you going to the Bulldogs. You end up going to Penrith. Bro, can you give us like

the details behind that bro? Like, let's go deep.

Yeah. So, um, I'll try and just recall everything that happened when I, so yeah, first, um,

Des, yeah, Des let me go. Said it was like, I was free to look elsewhere if I wanted to

and whatnot.

I was like, yeah, sweet as like, that's probably the first time it's ever happened. Even when

I left Penrith, I signed a two year deal, but I only stayed the one year and then Baz

left. So I just went with Baz to Manly and there was no like talk of we didn't want you

or anything. It was just sort of out. So that was my first real, like, look, um, yeah, it's

up to you, but like, you're, you're free to go if you, if you want like to look at other

options and I was like, you know, that's all good. Like, no worries. So started getting

the, the blows and that.

Um, so it was cool.

We did like the all, you know, who wanted to sign me and all that kind of stuff and

met up with a couple of teams. And then, um, I went and did a tour of Canterbury cause

I think it was Canterbury might've been NZ and, um, someone else. So, but I did end up

going to Canterbury just to like walk around the facility and that, uh, was it, was it

Pei at the time? Dean Pei?

Yeah, Dean Pei.

The head coach at the time. So, um, I didn't really want to move out of Sydney. Um, had

my family there, um, and my parents were getting older. So I was like, you know, I didn't

really want to, you know, be too far away from them. And, um, yeah, I dunno, that was

it. That was, it was, I think Warriors, Bulldogs, and then somebody else. And I was like, you

know what, just let me sit on this. It was only midway through the year. Um, I just wanted

to sort of take my time and, and come up with this decision. And I reckon I was locked in

for Canterbury. They, they offered, I think they offered the most money as well when they

were in Sydney. And I was like, this is perfect. I'm just going to go there. And then two

weeks, three weeks after sitting on that, um, got a call from Ivan just saying he wanted

to catch up and, and, and whatnot. So I was like, you know what, this is perfect. I'll

go see him at his house. And when I went and sat with him, um, bro, it was mad, no footy

chat whatsoever. It was all like, how are you? How's the family? Like.

That old trick.

That old trick, exactly. Went to relatable carnage.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Left all the footy out.

Oh, this guy cares about me.

That's exactly what he did. No, but he was a cool man. Like just has how he was explaining

what was happening at Penrith and what he needed and what the team sort of needed. Um,

and he obviously dealt with me the first time around that Penrith. So he knew how it was

off the field and I was just sort of enjoying life as I've said a dozen times. But, um,

yeah, he knew I had a young family now and I, you know, just sort of settled down a lot.

Um, so he was like, you know what?

Like, I want you to come back. I was like, he was like, I was like, sweet. Like left

there. And I told the manager straight away, I was like, get me there. Yeah. Penrith's

it. Penrith is it. And he's like, yeah, a hundred percent. Like they've definitely got

the most like promise to the way their club's going and the way the boys are playing. And

the best thing about the whole situation was that nothing came out. I, I agreed. I think

I'd signed and everything.

Yeah.

Not a single word had come out, not, not in the public or anything. And then obviously

people were like putting up this like Canterbury stuff and I was like, perfect. This is the

best. This is so fun. Everyone's cause everyone's asking me too. He's like, Oh, are you coming

with the dog? Oh, it's some of the dogs. And I was like, just waited and then announced

it, man. And it was, it was hectic.

I think, um, you'll probably been around long enough for good clubs and bad clubs. I think

that's a sign of a good club when stuff like that doesn't get leaked. Does it?

Yeah. It's, it's one of those things where you think it was sort of just a given the

fact that like, you know, whatever happens, it sort of happens until it's done. And then

it's done. But, uh, yeah, it doesn't happen like that everywhere. And I guess people

have their own friends or their own people that they've got to take care of who are in

the media or whoever with, um, other people. And then that just gets leaked. And that's

the thing, like the power of information, like if you have info, like that's valuable,

you know what I mean? Like that's, that can pretty much be traded.

For anything, eh? Money bro.

Anything man. And it's, yeah, it's just so powerful. So like when someone does have a,

you know,

you sort of understand why it does get out. Cause it's, you know, it just gives people

so much to like sort of get back.

Um, so you're a big part of, um, unlocking like Penrith's success. What, what was, um,

what was the biggest lesson you learned over that sort of period of time? I seen you at

the start of this year, the RIPA awards, and you said it was weird. Like you brought out

every game and you're like, you just don't feel like you're going, you're going to lose.

Um, what was that experience like bro?

I learned so much from that place. Like, um, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, just the way everything gelled like off the field as well. So it was, it was about

the footy, but they really knew like off the field success was just as important as on

the field, whether it's upstairs coaching staff, everyone being on the same page, like,

um, you know, when we, when it did stuff like promos, every, the culture and the place just

incredible. Like we had things like wearing the wrong uniform and the punishments, like

it was all a lot.

But at the same time it was like, you just didn't want to do it because it was that bad.

Like some of them was like shaving your head or like these hot chili things, but everyone

sort of bought into that. And then like, you just understand, like if everyone's on the

same page, it doesn't matter if the game plan is wrong or right. It's like, if you're executing

it to perfection, you're going to be that hard to stop. And then again, like I think

as well, they had so many good young players and I've seen this at South. South was another

one of the clubs they had.

They had really good older guys, like the superstars of the team, but you need your

young and up and comers to really step up if you want to go and be successful. And that's

what Penrith sort of had. They had all these young guys coming through, To'o, Crichton,

you know, Nafe still young, Edwards coming through. So Liam Martin too, like came onto

the scene, like all these guys on peanuts and fresh out of like twenties and cup and

all of a sudden they all kick at the same time. And then that just carries like the

deck just turns like your, your floor, like, and your ceiling on that far apart from each

other now.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Same thing, same exact thing I seen at South. I already knew that because someone

else like pointed out to me. And then once I got to Penrith, it was like, yeah, it just

happened again.

So when you say that, like that sort of reminds me of, cause we used to say this all the time

where like, like you said, you need a couple younger guys. So Broncos probably potentially

could be the only major threat to Penrith.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because you always get guys like Reecey Walsh apparently signed for 450, probably playing

at like a 1.2, 1.3 level.

Yes.

And you guys sort of had that combination of a lot of them all at once, didn't you?

Yeah, exactly, man. And it just, I don't know. Yeah. It's just, it just creates, just creates

this level of like, I don't know. It's like around the place, right. No one has to carry

anybody else, which just allows everyone just to play their role, which is a huge benefit

to any team.

team right if your superstars can just worry about doing their job and they're already that good

then their job just becomes that much easier right and then you've got guys like isaiah

who turned from like a you know bench back rower sort of lock didn't know really where

they wanted to put him into one of the best locks in the competition skillful can take over some of

the things that like claire's used to do you know i mean and just like everyone just sort of

started flying honestly a game plan sort of fit everyone and today i'll send it to the boys

earlier in the year because like a lot like you a lot of your forward packers um like you look at

someone like i'm just trying to think like jared or you look at you look at the roosters boys they

got like lindsey collins jared but they need to be coming off the back fence to generate momentum

where you guys could play like far right post come back with a double drop with nath but he could play

with like such slow tempo that if he dropped it off to fish or yaoi they could just generate their

own speed and do have leg drive off the back of that and you just sort of generate momentum from

then and just give it to your superstars

you

100 it was yeah it was a crazy time man like there was just threats all over the field

everywhere you went like if you wanted to hit the back rows like you got kick out on leon martin

on either edge i was like yeah it'd be the worst to defend against honestly that yeah

who would you who would you rather defend against kick out or leon martin

oh i know kicks is your boys too nah i'm going mario i'd rather get bumped off than having to

try and tackle someone who's gonna pump me up like all of the above like what molly did to me in the

round when i played few weeks ago yeah exactly what happened there i think i think kicks would do

me like i'd rather cop lean mullins knees or elbows to my head because you're just going to run a tough

line you just have to get you in front of him though yeah yeah and if i sink in they go at the

back that's yeah sweet that's not my problem just yeah where's the full back are you coming yes yeah

nah bro just playing with kicks you man he's yeah just an athlete yeah um so like talk about your

the premiership ones like how much more did that mean to you obviously the first one you just sort

of rocked up and just rocked up as a replacement and got your ring yes what about these ones

put in a whole season yeah you know what i mean always said like ever since like that game i felt

so guilty for playing that game you stole isaac luke's ring didn't you correct it just burns

like burns me so deep like he had to miss that game after what he did for that club too like

came there like worked so hard to get the club to where it was and then um missed the biggest game

that that club's had in um however long it was i mean so um yeah did you did you offer to give him

give him your ring yeah yeah he um i think michael mcguire ended up giving his ring too

were you stoked when when you get to cook oh yeah after thought it was like this

still get to look at it yeah yeah um no but but honestly like i

don't know what to say about it i don't know what to say about it i don't know what to say about it i

felt yeah i felt that bad i just didn't think he'd get suspended for for a grand final to be honest

but um yeah it happened and then obviously the parent of ones like that's when i felt like i

was actually a part of the team you know um grinded it out the whole year um and we lost

2020 too so you know that sort of made 21 that much more special and then you know to start

a i i think try to start a dynasty um and then made it 2022 as well back to back i mean it was

it was crazy it wasn't just to lose so little games as well yeah it just doesn't make sense

90 win rate or some like that hey something crazy maybe i lost seven games over three years

and everyone was mocking me i got the tigers yeah i lost like the first seven rounds of that oh yeah

true that's crazy yeah um which one stands out more to you out of those

um sort of rings like the the last two that you got 21 against us yeah

yeah don't i'm pretty sure is that the 21. yeah yeah yeah 23 yeah 21. um yeah bro that one was a

grind day that one i reckon the last 20 minutes i've never been that tired yeah that one yeah

that was like lost 2020 we get back there 2021 um the comps moves out to queensland like

everyone just wants it so bad you know what i mean and i think for south as well they had a great team

you know the

they did well to get there we lost the first game yeah so when you came back that that second time

and oh bro yeah 20 minutes out of my feet out of my feet i remember screaming i was like yo

he's cramping up like not in the huddle like everyone's just dying and that's buzzer went

man bro oh just relief so much satisfaction but i only lasted for like for a little bit

back in the pre-season that was good man yeah it was good wow it was crazy i was just kind of cool

to see it from like an outsider who kind of been in like big fan of ivan obviously debuted me brought

me back from england um but like just always hear about what they'd planned on doing like the first

time we were there the center of excellence like where is this thing you said it's gonna be

ready in six months we'll see you guys go and do it bro i was mad to watch yeah no there

was it was nice to be a part of bro that's an experience for sure ah the tigers what made you

get there what made you go to the west same thing um i think it was to go up to dolphins

maybe and tigers yeah yeah i've sort of been nice those would have would they really would

have but once again it was like i had young kids in school um and my parents they're just you know

they're just getting older like i i love the sort of family aspect of like

if i could get my kids around my parents more i would um i just love us all being together and

like i already live 45 minutes to an hour away from them which already seems like

a long time so everyone was set up yeah this is business here in sydney i just didn't want to

didn't want to go away and to be honest i grew up supporting the tigers and um

shinji and benji were going back there so i was like the dream yeah i was like you know we're

going again so um did you have chats with pender for now saying um you might have been worth a

little bit too much at that time wouldn't you is that what it was that's exactly what it was

um they said i was free to look uh or test the market um and then they were like just give us

a little bit more money and i was like yeah of course but then when we did it he was like man we

just we just can't pay a hooker um anything close to that so they didn't even offer anything which

is like completely understandable you know they had so much salary cap and this is what we're

saying like the good thing about having the young kids come through is that you get the best of the

best like at such a young age for like little money but then at some stage yeah they catch up

yeah and like we've lost oh we're not we but pennant lost some big players over those years you know matt burn cape waller ended up losing a lot of money

leaving kids gone myself so it's like yeah it's just one of those things that come with rugby

league and trying to manage the salary cabinet um i know well this is sort of swinging back to manly

but you spend a lot of time with manasi and sort of developing his game bro and he turned into like

pro gun like well i've every time someone speaks about him i was just when they asked when des asked

me to um when said it was all right to to look elsewhere but i was like yeah this guy honestly

from where he is now 10 times the player i was at that same

like same time was he 20 years old 21 years old when you're teaching him the little shoulder

rolls and shit he might have taught him too good bro man he was like the best thing i've seen come

through like into first grade as a hooker if his fitness like levels were a bit like higher

i wouldn't even have been playing to be honest those unfit tongans man yes

um yeah so this is a bit of a cheeky question but when you leave printer do you sort of hope

like you watch maddie burton and that go and capes and like you guys kind of just reload and

go again i thought when once you left and keeks left i'm like oh they're gonna go down

is it good to see them go well or do or loki is there part of you that goes i wish i was

true no bro honestly like you make like such good friendships and like you know they're pretty much

your brothers after what you go through i mean and um i love seeing their success but the one thing i

need bro i love seeing him play well because even like when we were together he was just the best

like learner who just wanted to learn everything like he's a different style hooker too isn't he

he's more like a sort of read money like in your face go hard zip it out yeah exactly so he always

asked me things and tips and he was good too he understood that he wasn't the same like type of

player that i was and didn't try and like you know just like make like force it into his game

he took what he could like

whatever worked for him he kept and then but i just remember the start of the year people were

like well just to talk about like losing him bro just to see him like go so well right he's the

man too like best yeah good dude yeah massive clown so he's good to be around he's got that

energy about him yeah i love i love seeing him go so well too all right we'll talk about your time

at the tigers now and obviously um they say like a week's a long time in rugby league i'm sure the

season has been long and like you like you said you sort of came from south and come to penrith and

every team on the up at the time you've gone from three years of grand finals down to the west

tigers or across to the west tigers what was that experience like first day walking into the joint

yeah but i was i was really excited actually like um like i said penrith couldn't keep me so it was

easy to understand that i wasn't going to be there so it was like it's not like oh i had

trouble leaving or anything i was ready for the new chapter like i really actually want to just

bring this club up like i love the tigers um i'm not a big footy watcher never was

growing up but i just don't know i think i've watched one game this year but um it was like

is that crazy crazy one of the best nines when you watch this one game yeah i don't know ever since i

was a kid hey like um i remember being at my cousin's house and they were like oh the game's

on they're all para fans and they were playing the dogs and everyone ran to the lounge room and i was

like when i asked my cousin like can you go turn the nintendo 64 on that's the vibe yeah just went

myself and i was like yeah no but um yeah i just like i love the tigers and i it's not even just

that i love the tigers it's wherever i go like it doesn't matter what jersey i have on or who i

sign for like i'm all in there's no like half or anything it's it's just i'm going balls out and

there's nothing else to do you know so when i go to tigers pre-season um the vibe around the place

is great like we were losing as well but like sometimes when you get those losing teams you

start to fracture as a as a playing group and the boys can start to split and but it wasn't like that

here it's always like we understood it was like only us you know we also understood that the footy

that we were trying to play just didn't work for us as a team at the start of the year you know

what i mean so um but yeah getting there pre-season i was enjoying the place new facilities too so

um it's a great place to be at yeah um so like i'll look at that team now and it's like sort of

very similar to that vibe we had a benefit early on where you just kind of don't know where you're

is and obviously you're gonna do your thing at nine and there's a lot of fox reports they're

saying like people can't keep up with uppy and early on you know stuff like that brooksy bro

he's a player like he can ball bro maybe just in the wrong system like when you walked into there

were you just like like were you trying to flip attack obviously you're solid on d pin for

the defense club like what were you looking at what needed changing yeah i think a lot of things um

for my game as well was combinations just for my game um like if i do take off someone's usually

so they just push up with me um isaiah was a good example of that you know if i took off he'd always

be there even nate nate was good if he was waiting for the ball yeah and i just went yeah you just go

hit a hole so um it's one of those like things you actually have to work on in pre-season i came

really late i think it was world cup into uh tigers so i didn't come back to like the second week of

january or something um so i didn't get too much time to sort of work on that part of the game

but yeah as well like like you said we didn't

we didn't really have that guy the go-to guy um at tigers and i think a lot of our game plan at the

start of the year was sort of free-flowing footy you know like have shape attack if you end up on

the sideline like swing the ball back to the other side but we just weren't gaining any momentum um

we just didn't know who we were as a team we had no identity so it just just wasn't working out for

us we had a couple of close games at the start of the year that really would have helped us

in our season i think it was newcastle and titans

and you know we dropped them and they're pretty bad games for us so we just started

downhill trajectory from the start as a captain like what do you say in those sort of moments

when you're like oh and five to start the season is it do you start i was gonna get angry man do

you start turning or is it like you're a little bit older you're trying to been young guys with

her not break confidence that was exactly like the dilemma i was sort of in in that mid part um

because i came so late too i didn't really like i hadn't really built that relationship with everyone

and then a couple weeks into pre-season or a few weeks whatever it was like then they said

um we all voted for captain and i got the night and i was like i didn't know exactly how i wanted

to come across but i had some good advice from someone they said um you got picked as captain

by being yourself so don't change who you are to try and be the captain so i was like you know

that's that's great advice and i'm battled with how do i then bring a point across because i'd

love to just get angry but at the same time our team's so young and inexperienced if i do get

angry i'm gonna lose a few blokes you'd like without a doubt and then if i try and be like

just constructive it's like it might get my point across so it was like that mix in between but

honestly it was like it's hard because when you watch maybe from like from an outside perspective

you could easily say like oh they're just not putting in the effort and they're playing

horribly it's just i don't think i don't think effort was ever the

thing though if you boys are yeah it was it was never you know we just we just didn't have the

footy um the footy down right the footy is such a big part of it and mentality behind how you

want to play and we just we never had that from the start of the season and it's sort of

yeah it just didn't put us in a good place and building on the season didn't work either

what'd you learn as a leader from round one to round 27 like what had changed

were you still trying to figure it out a lot of what i learned was

a lot of it was like if i want something done like i just have to pull the trigger on it like

whether it's game plan whether it's how i want to play or like a lot of the times coaching staff

will come up with game plans yeah but at the same time it's like you're not going to beat penrith

by game plan you're going to beat them by literally doing what they do and just trying

to do better than them you know what i mean or if you have an attacking side because we didn't have

a very uh

fluid attacking style so it was like we're not going to beat them trying to go around them or

try and pull them apart with plays it's very lateral way it's very lateral side yeah yeah

yeah exactly so it's like we just we just couldn't do that man so i think when we did end up playing

it was wet so it was perfect and all we did was just kick long just into the corner to try and

beat penrith at their own game and it worked out if you have an attacking team i think you're

actually better off like trying to attack more of the time you know because they're so good

defensively if you can just pull them apart once you're not going to be able to do anything you're

going to be able to do anything you're not going to be able to do anything you're not going to be able

south do it really well against them they do it yeah yeah because they just played in and they go

around but they have a really good attacking side so for us as a team we just needed to find that we

had really good middles especially fit middles um and i think when we actually started to put some

good games together we were doing that like putting on our medals our back five were actually good

coming out of yardage we just needed to sort of kick to the corners like play that long game and

then i think if we started that from the start of the year then you can build on that build the game

and the shape and all that so i think yeah we just started a bit late on that kind of stuff

um tim sheen's and benji obviously tiger's royalty royalty um obviously that time 05 to 11 was one of

the best times of football to watch and you probably didn't watch any games but benji was

the man but like how much of that passed after they tried to bring in and like what's the

different coaching styles between so like tim machines and benji even though the head coach

and assistant and benji's head coach now what was the like clear differences because benji's been

in the same league with his teammates and been through systems of like selves and sort of stuff

like that yes what'd you learn from those boys well heaps like sheen's his footy mind he's crazy

like just just what he understands about the game and what he knows about the game like he's

obviously been in there for years so uh but if you get trapped into a corner with him you'll let you

know about it every 50 years of his experience he's stuck his hour and a half conversation with him

but um but he's yeah he i think what worked for him was a lot of um he wanted to play that sort of like

footy where we were passing the ball and had lots of shape but we just didn't really have a benji

uh to sort of execute that for us because benji like as a player even when he trains with us

incredible man like he's so loud like screaming like like do this do this do that naming people

as well like that's something that's like pretty advanced like at the top level is like when you

name who's on your inside to do a certain job like twally and then like clam like you know what i mean

satan

doing

yeah

but

shunji you know obviously been in the game for so long um but he was all based trick pace here

so he had some pretty cool trick players like me getting the out books you under the other side

to wake him and back inside for dream so you know all those sort of plays we try to try to get from

him too but um yeah benji's the opposite man i think um really strategical um obviously in the

game you know much more recently and i've always great work with familiy as well but i can guarantee

played under different coaches as well like obviously so yeah he was he's more so about

the structure and understanding the feel of the game like momentum you know these days bro

you literally for the first 20 minutes you just got to kick to the corner you know i mean first

few games of the year you just got to kick to the corner like because you don't have that

smooth combination between each other things just just just off but it's not anyone's fault it's

literally first few games of the year yeah it's just clunky hey bro it's hot it's hot everyone's

trying to you know get their their fitness in their match fitness um so yeah it's literally

about kick to the corners and then sort of play that kind of footy and then wait for the other

team to make a mistake pretty much it's just dive one of those exactly exactly so and then you build

on that throughout the season but you know benji's a lot a lot about that um so it's good man he just

sees the game so differently and i think because he played it so differently as well you know it's

a big asset he talked about that on my podcast where

he said that um like a lot of people thought he was off the cuff but he's actually really

structured and cody walker i've heard a lot of boys say that about cody where like cody's past

selections fucking elite it's crazy i don't know how he just holds the ball for so long

the four man go hurry up and get up go get him but like he said that like within the structure

there's enough like sort of plays that can come about that isn't it exactly bro and that

that's the whole point of the structure is like it gives you something to do when there's nothing on

so that when there is something on you don't have to think about it it's like when there's no

structure you have to try and come up with plays and think about everything you're like all right

let's do this all right let's do that whereas when the structure is like we're getting here to there

and as soon as there's a quick one now we're talking about momentum before if i'm saying like

a half you know late third man back or straight away you understand there's only five there

and then just like yeah pull the trigger instead of trying to

everything on the spot you know it just calms everything down and then you get the blow to put

it yeah i never looked at it like that yeah well like that's sort of the thing people think

structure is boring but it's like it might be boring but it allows you to free up your game

because everyone knows what they're doing everyone knows the structure and then when you want to pull

the trigger or the superstars need to go go on they just see it a bit they just say yeah they

see it yeah and like that that setup play that um penrith always do when they start like in that

gray area post and they lay it up to that other one that's the perfect setup play because what

you're actually trying to type your half and your back rower and once you've got them both their

marker there's got to be two rookies going on the up to the wide four and then jerome just goes

give me the ball kick out whoever 100 and then if there's three in that tackle so you got two

middles one's going late back to the open it's like there's just options everywhere yeah and if

you have structures boring but defending your lines even more boring exactly exactly don't do

that um you talked about young fella coming through your club bulla at the back tell us about him bro

he's gonna be a star isn't he he's special man did you know it straight away when you seen him or

um you don't want to do those ones though like yeah i've seen them yeah

honestly there was there's just so much going on at tigers like i was just focusing so hard on

what we're trying to do as a team and you know try and get to different spots and

combinations and whatnot like he was training but he wasn't like trying to pick us apart at training

you know what i mean oh so he was in like third gear or something yeah yeah he honestly i was on

his he was like he was full back on the other team kicked to him and he just sort of catch

yeah catch bring it back like get tackled whenever we do our post stuff like

all right as soon as you put him in the game against other other people

he's a freak i was i'll just be weary of him coming in i just thought just thought it was

short of a run yeah okay we're losing a lot and i was like i throw this guy in the deep end and i

was like i don't know if this is the best thing for him but you know what like it's a ruggedly run you know what like do I need a different light fake bro

like sink or swim pretty much that's what they were explaining to me i was like you know what

fair enough bro killed it yeah it's mainly freak freak yeah and just an athlete man proper athlete

probably guy um gets hated on a lot and he's kind of like an easy scapegoat and a beat-up

target luki brooks i think like i've obviously played the game he's a gun to me he's been in a

bad team for a long long time and he's the seven he's the highest paid the blame should be on the

shoulders i get that but what's he like behind the scenes obviously from uh work ethic from a

person and from being on the field or from what's he like bro he he's great like he's he's a bit

quieter um he's one of those quieter blokes but like greatest guy like we'll converse with you

it's not like he's like trying to leave or anything like that bro great bloke um gets onto

the field does his job and he's one of those things it's like so much perception around how

if you're getting paid that much money i felt just you feel horrible for him like you see over the

years just getting just bashed and just way down a over that time i don't know how i get sick of

hearing it i don't know how he's still playing honestly like it's just week after week copping

that kind of abuse and then um to play with him bro he has so much potential so much potential

and i think like you said like system versus you know what sort of works for him um and i get it

but you got to sort of try and adjust or do what you can as a player but i thought he played some

great footy this year like some absolutely cracking footy what do you think what's his strength

he's running game he's running game easily well if you were to sort of coach him from

like a high level like how would you like you know certain players operate off certain looks

like i like playing off of 50 because i'll just get a wide pass or slow or just get to be

how would you play him but i'd honestly like i'd play him from the

the gray from outside the post on the long or the short on the long okay on the long at the back

yeah at the back and get him um get him onto the four man a bit more and just like because he's

like he can actually burn the four minutes he's rapid he's so quick he actually burned the four

man like or like dig in like he that short but i just think he's like i think he actually has

so much to give you know what i mean and um i think i i think the changing club will be good

for him because like you said it just wears you down so long i'm copying that

same club um so yeah i actually have um i actually have high hopes for him

he's gonna kill it uh in my opinion um obviously you played it mainly

yeah he's just gonna plug straight into that system isn't he yeah because ches ches does

everything 100 ches ches will you know take the team where they need to go oh i'm pretty sure

that's how they play and then this guy will just either set them back on their left side or they

even let him run to the right side if they need to but left foot kicking game too yeah sweet man

kick is like hard to defend man 40 20 central ladies both of them both of them and probably

since teddy's gone he hasn't had a guy like tommy to play with imagine he's got tommy at the back

now too so that takes pressure off you jake he's passing you the ball so like you know you're

getting it straight on your chest and you're already on the floor man yeah it's been pretty

exciting for him yeah i think i think he's gonna do great there there's some good medals to work

with um talk about obviously fiji got up in the rugby world cup and yeah um talk about being fijian

playing for fiji especially in rugby league and they're starting to do great things and

one memory that sticks out for me and i know tonga get a lot of credit for 2017 uh world

cup bro hainsey in our way just taking on everyone with no one around them it's crazy like fijians

just natural footballers now they're starting to plug into professional systems fiji andrew

just beat crusaders now they've just beat the wallabies over there but you must be super proud

right it's incredible like uh that was seeing you sorry i just seen you get up in your seat there too

fiji one yeah um yeah bro like like everyone sort of speaks about it like um obviously because

they're really undeveloped uh as teams and even as countries right so um they sort of are always

known as being great athletes and can play football but never as their own team like we've

too many fijians together you know too many carver sessions you know the jokes that you got to make

but um yeah just to see like

the development of all these players now right like everyone's sort of in a system now all these

players you know they're all playing somewhere they're all professional or semi-professional so

but it's just yeah like you know obviously that union game on the weekend the vesta wallabies like

but this is the first time i've seen them play so tactically sound it was crazy and their forward

pack was hectic yeah like i'm not a big union fan or don't watch too much footy but um yeah usually

um that's sort of struggle against um other teams but i think every one of those four plays for a

team you know they're all you know perfect in in what they do in their positions and watching the

scrums like we weren't getting pushed back where we usually get pushed back with the penalties that

come from falling down so um yeah i just thought everyone stood up and then the number nine oh

bro here's my man here's my man he's goal kicking it was like a 65 matur goal he kicked i was like

yeah bro it was outstanding man just this...

see them all come together at once and play like they did and obviously you got samuel aranda and

he's the guy who'd be so scary to tackle oh man i'm watching these guys get bumped off so hard

just for me so we flip to the league side what's it look like playing for fiji obviously like you

see a lot of pacific island countries and they come in and we all haka uh we go anthem haka

you guys go into church hymns what's that like bro some catchy songs too

it always yeah yeah no it's um it's special man like even blokes who aren't singers everyone just

gets a rush out of singing together as a group it's it's it's strange to put it that way but

you know when you come into a group environment everyone's a bit like hesitant you know the first

time singing or whatever it is but like that's the way everyone sort of um buys in by singing

because it's like

you cannot sing but everyone knows if you're not singing so everyone sort of sings and you're in a

circle staring at each other and like it's mad because you're out of your comfort zone you're

actually being vulnerable because you have a bad voice it's like yeah you usually hear it so it's

one band one sound yeah but like you actually learn how to sing too this is mad like you pick

up these little skills and everyone's trying to learn the words and what the words mean so um yeah

into a footy field once again you put yourself in this vulnerable position and then everyone's

just doing this circle there's no one else there he's you and your mates and then everyone just

loves representing fiji and being from there you know like i've never heard anyone be shy to say

they're from fiji you know no way yeah it's just everyone just loves it you know it's a

great place to to come from yeah for sure it has such a great um aura about you know people talk

about how they love fiji and it's good for their kids and a beautiful place and yes that's what i

ungefähr pocket chanel speen

why not so yeah always beautiful people bro very polite yeah very kind exactly so no i can't play

um that's a weird going from like a hymn into like footy like obviously going into you know

i mean or is it more of a buzz right the adrenaline that you get once you finish singing

it's crazy it's it's weird it's more like a fulfilling sort of feeling rather than like

uh we're coming to sort of kill you vibe but it still has the same effect like

um we all know we're playing for our country and how much it means to us so

yeah everyone's just there ready to go and you know some of the boys usually cry

wow bro a lot of them do hey it's like that's pretty moving bro yeah yeah just sort of hit

a different chord pretty much the flying fijians they moved into a hukka a little bit um different

than what you guys do yeah yeah yeah yeah so they still um they still do the the hukka you

know we're the ones that sort of changed this a few years ago into the hymn um but yeah once again

just mad watching it you know how much emotion comes out and i think for everyone that does sort

of a huck or a walk right just the amount of energy it takes from you but also you get back

you know after doing something like that yeah bro huck is draining man

you try and do that bro we'll go first we'll go first yeah so you can get your breath back bro

fish was telling me that you're saying like um yeah after the hucka bro like he's actually tired

like it you feel so tired like like you're puffing like you just scream so hard and now

just getting bigger and fish has to go back and take the first head up too which is even worse

that's crazy try and get the kickoff try and get the kickoff and hucka first and you'll be away

that's your one run done and then you go kick chase that's great um new south wales bro obviously

been in the origin arena but that's pretty exciting there's a kid that never watched football

the only things i did oh you watch origin pizza night wednesday nights yeah what was that experience

like bro ah bro

oh bro

insane like i i don't know i always like saw myself as a little kid from regions park which

is you know out west and never really saw myself as like a elite player growing up i just wanted to

make nrl and then always just use that and i was like you know i made the first grade at south and

i was like yeah it's just a little kid from region park from fiji and that was it like i always just

sort of talk myself down and then once i ran out into that origin arena i was like i stopped talking

like oh so you had to wait till you played origin to sort of validate yourself

till it finally hit me oh what the yeah yeah it finally hit me and i was like you know what

this was like i can't do this like i made it there's nothing else to sort of you know bring

myself back down to anything it's like why not be someone's influence why not

help someone else come out of that instead of them thinking that they can't do something why not be

you know why not be the guy why not be the guy that made it out instead of you know just that kid so and do you know what's a deal with them guys you got a plan is there likeeds in them right out?

you know why not be some guy

why not not the guy that made it out instead of you know just that kid so what was it like what did you do back there?

did you get those bad shots did you get whatever?

the guy that made it out instead of you know just that kid so and you know what's different sort of

to tie our past conversations together is like when you associate Fijians like Winger like Hainsey

like Roger or Petro seven receiver like the forwards are always sorted the backs are always

sorted but the guy who gets them the ball there's sort of no Fijian well it's obviously you now but

like you're the guy who can get those guys the ball you know what I mean 100% man like

that was another thing growing up like I'd never seen um a Fijian spine player that was like

solidified in the NRL I actually loved um Aaron Groom he was the Bulldogs halfback oh yeah I remember

yeah yeah Groomy so um I don't think he I don't know how many games he played but he was sort of

in and out and but yeah I sort of looked up to him a lot um growing up because he was a spine player

but yeah and then um yeah I don't think there's been too many that have sort of stuck in there

what about when you look there um other code like someone like a Waisali Sarivi or someone like that

does

watch his highlights on YouTube black and white yeah roll the sleeves up straight into a goosey

and even watching him um in the crowd

so no it's all there's so many good players and you know Fijian has always been known for

playing good footy and whatnot so yeah once I finally got there you know I was happy to sort

of call myself a Fijian spine player yeah that's cool um Queensland man

right

and boys are good eh like obviously we hear Queensland spirit means more to Queenslanders

but my opinion and I know a lot of New South Wales people I do think it means a little bit more

to those guys what's your thoughts on all that I know that hurts you

yeah yeah I don't know yeah because your guys are you guys are always more stacked than him

like that's what that's confusing me over the past couple years man I'm just yeah when

when they say that because like when I play like there is no there is no I couldn't go any harder

like okay yeah so when people say I'm like well that's just personally you're basically

questioning your effort or passion aren't they exactly yeah exactly so it's like I'm just out

there like I get it like people will say what they want to say and have their opinions and

that's fine like I'm not bothered by that but I'm like I don't know like how you would think

that it doesn't mean as much to us as it does to them but like you know maybe it's just something

else that they're doing um at the moment the game is the way they're playing um but yeah man

whenever I bring it up around the New South Wales boys they're all just like oh

I don't know it's just something you can't can't explain hey it's a weird one bro well yeah that

that's exactly it man and like you said we lost the series and last couple years so yeah it's a

pretty it's a pretty tough one to have to sort of sit there and sort of cop as well you know

it's like yeah it's just how I want to put your finger on but you know hats off to them they

I can see it burning now which is making me laugh

I was like what do I say here I don't want to start getting angry

start like looking around and stuff like that what do I say oh bro it's a random thought and um

I just listened to a book on like leadership not too long ago and I talked about Sir Alex Ferguson

and he goes the key is to be like an inconsistent leader and now

the name of the title but what he meant by that was like he used to treat like each person

like differently and there was one time there's a game where um his best player was killing it on

the field but he ended up passing the ball back or something I don't know the football analogy

and he come into the locker room and he sprayed his best player in front of everyone he goes if

you fucking do that again I'll fucking pull you off and he was like a little bit rattled went

back on and killed it but because he sprayed the best player the whole team went with them too

I was doing this a little bit later when I was playing half because I used to just spray everyone

the fuck what are you doing but if you we think about this with Islander boys they didn't react

to confrontation too well sometimes a pat on the back it's just like bro you're too good to be doing

stuff like that it's kind of the spray that they need and that's what it reminded me of when you

were just sort of talking about that before I'm just trying to figure it out yeah but then you're

gonna make fucking 40 tackles in play 80. no that's um yeah I was I sort of learned that same

thing when I was at South with McGuire so we did personality tests oh did you yeah I had to do

personality tests or and then we all sat in a room and then spoke about you know what works best for

you so every individual in the room was like oh yeah Dave Tyrrell I remember the funniest he's

like bro just spray me I don't care yeah he's like swearing me just does he just tell me what to do

and I'll do it for you just spray me it's fine and someone like Chris McQueen was like if you spray me

he's like I could lose my head a little bit like um if he's like just just talk to me or tell me

what I'll do for you so I think so that's when I first learned I was like everyone as an individual

like like you said it's so so different and it's it's tough it's like I guess you get some guys

back in the olden days wait you're probably just getting sprayed everyone everyone's spraying

everyone everyone's copying it doesn't matter who you are if you want to cry about it nah you're

copying the spray and like it was just different times back then as well like upbringings were

different uh you had to play footy and work as well sometimes so I'm guessing like people just

got harder um harder nose I guess at the time whereas nowadays it's like some guys are in high

school getting ready to you know get ready for first grade training so it's like it's so different

you know and personalities and all that are coming out the more we know about the human psyche and

how it works so it's crazy now like you said as a leader I've got to speak to certain people

differently I think um the vulnerability of players coming through now like they may be perceived as a

little bit softer but I think the positive side of that bro is that they're not afraid to open up um

when things are going bad and especially like personal life like they'll tell you if a

relationship's gone down where before I think a lot of the boys had bottled it up and then next

minute like bad stuff's starting to happen bro which is scary bro so that's probably the one

positive side of it 100 and a lot of times your off-road life affects your footy life so if you're

able to get that out then at least you have a chance for someone else to try and not just help

you with it but even just listen yeah bro that's all they need sometimes a massive massive difference

um with that you you know you finish your career there is that sort of the plan or would you go

overseas no you're not going to go overseas I have families there um sorry the question the sort of

question I'm going trying to head down is when you leave the Tigers what do you want your Legacy to

be not not as a football player but just as a Tigers player when I lead now leave the Tigers

so at the end of your uh contract like what would you perceive to be a success as a Tigers make one

finals obviously winning the grand final is a big one but or is it

something like a little bit smaller honestly my brain doesn't even work like that that far no no I

literally I forgot I had this podcast yesterday I know that right 40 players are the worst I

appreciate you bro that was that was huge I just seen your name pop up and I was like I was shocked

I thought it was today I mean yeah I was like yeah lucky you mentioned me but honestly man I live my

life day to day and um whatever happens at the back end of Tigers will happen but

yeah

um literally all I want at the moment is is to enjoy this off season and then when we do get

into pre-season lad like just just full like change in everything the culture is your foot

getting down day one you put your foot down day one yeah so I tried to put I was sorry I was saying

before how I was got there a bit late yeah um so it was hard I didn't build that rapport with anyone

and I became captain but I didn't want to go too hard I didn't want to lose everyone before I'd even

yeah I mean so I sort of just sort of let it go how I was going and then I started bringing in

punishments after but like funny ones like um just sort of try and get things back and then

yeah I just I just know this time around I'm like nah from day dot like this is just how it has to

be there is no like ifs or buts like you just all it does is create the discipline that everyone buys

into so if you can get that as a team that's just like one step it's not your luck you're not doing any good you can get to it with a lot of work but that's what it does with it.

everything but it's one small thing that you need discipline is like so important when it

comes to playing footy off the field so i'm excited for that oh bro you're ready

everyone's coming hurry up

um sorry last question you got one guy to pick who's the other nine in the comp that you like

going up against when they like to aim up against yeah who's like when team sheets come out on a

tuesday and there's another nine on the other side who's one guy you like to go up against

usually always damien cook or harry grant love playing against good hookers i love playing

against good hookers i think it's a competitive i don't know if it's the competitive side of me or

what yeah but i think as well like i just was never picked for anything i always got chosen

over growing up like everyone was always better than me or they just yeah they always went another

direction so it's mad

when i just get out there i'm like yeah yeah me and you today me and you yeah i just keep that

sort of to the back of my head pack the scrum and go oh robbie farah yeah just hit someone

um is the damien cook one because the new south wales selection

yeah i guess like coming through i like that yeah yeah yeah it was the new south wales selection

um but yeah not like any malice or any any of that just more so just competition he got picked

yeah i was fine with it like i just enjoy playing against good hookers love that yeah especially

harry grant as well like he's a freek he's so good perhaps off wet egan killing it this year bro yeah

i remember when um i really left penrith and i was like oh he's just like like a solid player like

he'll get you the ball bro but bray's nice yeah play he's one thing i know is his deception is

crazy yeah he's half shown coming back the other way like playing some good i love mitch kenny bro

like hard-nosed like trying to bash in defense like i i enjoy i enjoy watching him or when i did

watch the game sorry um we talked about the 14 off there how important you said it's probably

one of the most important positions in the game right now and there's different whilst different

styles to play that forwarding position how would you like to play it how do you like to play it

do you like that because you've come off a double hooker system where mitch kennedy can take up the

first 20 you roll through laters is that your favorite way to play it or do you like a dylan

walker sort of style where you can pass out yeah my i think my favorite would be if i was coaching

a team have the dylan walker style the guy that can play a hooker hooker 13 um back row is nice

but if you they could play center as well that'd be like the ultimate so like d walks he's playing

13 7 um 13 9

center

is and if you need to be playing the halves like this that's just like the ultimate 14 you know

what i mean and so many things happen in the game these days injuries or head knocks doesn't matter

it's crazy and then people are just going down so if you're able to cover all those positions

you're blessed you're blessed shout out that boy d walks all right i just want to say thank you for

your time and jumping on get back on early next year talk about the tigers and how you're gonna

appreciate you thank you my brother thanks my guy

you