The Australian Financial Review.
The thing that was really challenging was the harassment of my family, the harassment
From a mental point of view, I was in a really dark spot.
I think when someone says, don't worry about it, I think that would be a bit of BS.
Hi, I'm Sally Patton, editor of Boss from the Australian Financial Review.
And welcome to 15 Minutes with the Boss, a podcast about success and failure and everything
And along the way, we're hoping to get some really great advice from our leaders.
My guest today is Anthony Seabolt, the coach of the Manly Sea Eagles.
Hi, Anthony, how are you?
I'm well, Sally, and it's great to be here today.
Now, Anthony, as I said, you're the coach of Manly Sea Eagles, so no pressure as we
head into the 2025 season.
In addition to a team of players, you have a football staff of more than 20.
Last year, you finished seventh on the ladder, up from twelfth the year before.
And indeed, 2024 was the fifth time in the last 11 seasons you've made the finals.
So congratulations.
What are your goals for 2025?
Yeah, well, our goals for 2025 is to repeat the finals performance.
It's been a decade since our club has made the finals in two successive seasons.
So that's one aspiration that we have.
Our whole preseason preparation is about taking the club to the next level.
And the next level for us is to become a top four side.
And that's the opportunity that we've got in front of us.
OK, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
On that note, we don't have very much time.
Let's start the clock. 15 minutes.
My first question is about your morning routine.
What time do you get up?
What does it look like? What happens?
So I'm up at five o'clock every day.
And so I try and do some sort of exercise of a morning time.
So whether it's in the gym at our centre of excellence,
whether it's riding my push bike twice a week and then have breakfast,
I'm generally speaking in at the centre of excellence where we're based.
So that's sort of the morning routine for me.
And I try and get a sauna in as well.
So I find that a sauna is a really good way.
A sauna in a cold water plunge is a really good way for me to start my day.
So do you do the whole sauna, ice bath thing?
I do. At the centre of excellence, we've got a big sauna, a 14 seat sauna.
And we've got the cold water plunge pool right next door to it.
So it's literally I can either do contrast or I do 10 minutes in the sauna
and then five minutes in the ice bath.
There's a lot of research around sauna and promotion of cardiovascular health,
but also human growth hormone.
So when you train in the gym, there's there's some research
in and around having benefits there to have a sauna post gym.
The idea of the cold water immersion is that it's very, very good for your mental health.
And for me, I feel really good after I do it.
So that's a really positive way for me to start the day.
We talk about having a better week and I work with a personal coach
who talks to me about having a better, better morning.
And that's sort of essentially why I've got such a routine of a morning time.
Yeah, fantastic. OK, my next question is about your career.
Can you tell me about a pivotal moment in your career or something that happened
that really changed the trajectory of what you were doing?
Yeah, so I was head coach of Brisbane Broncos.
It was the second club in the NRL that I was head coach for.
And I had, I suppose, what you call failure up there.
I had a six year deal and I finished after about 18 months.
And so that really changed the trajectory because I had to endure a failure
in the public eye, which was quite challenging at the time.
But I feel like I've learned a lot from that particular failure.
And I think in life, perseverance is something that any person who has been able
to to reach, you know, some sort of elite level
in their particular industry has had to endure some failures
and had to show perseverance and resilience.
So that changed the trajectory.
And it actually changed because I moved codes and I moved countries.
So I went from living in Australia, working as a head coach in Australia
in the National Rugby League to working with England Rugby Union,
which is a totally different code in a different country.
So what would you say was the actual failure in Brisbane results?
OK, so in, you know, elite sport, you know, people look at the scoreboard
and that's essentially all people look at and you're judged on that.
Now, is that success or failure?
No, you could argue that there's some successes if you're building a team
and you're bringing emerging players and you're improving the program.
But ultimately, the results suggest that it was a failure.
So how do you learn or how do you cope with pressure,
which I assume you would have got from the media and fans?
Because they're such high profile positions, right?
Yeah, they are an Australian sport.
And you're right. I mean, look, it's perceived pressure.
That's probably the one thing that I would say, you know,
knowing a number of surgeons, like people who operate on others,
like that's where I perceive pressure to be because it's life and death.
The perceived pressure comes from the speculation in and around the media.
Unfortunately, during my situation in Brisbane, it spilled over
into some harassment and defamation on social media.
Myself and Erin Mullen, who is a former journalist on, you know,
both Channel 9 and with News Limited, we both ended up appearing in the Senate
to talk about legislation change with harassment and defamation on social media
off the back of two experiences that we had.
So we were trying to use our profile for that.
So, yeah, it was really challenging time.
And from a mental point of view, I was in a really dark spot.
So that wasn't born out of the pressure of the results.
I could swallow that because essentially I knew that I gave everything
and it wasn't working.
So I could quite comfortably walk away.
The thing that was really challenging was the harassment of my family,
the harassment of myself on the social media platform.
So that was the difficult thing to to move on from.
That must have been really difficult because those attacks
were really very personal and against your family.
Did you have the tools to ignore them and calm yourself down?
You do. And I don't think that I had mental skills,
tools to be able to do that at the time.
But now I have someone that I worked with and a lot of it is around
how I can move on.
And essentially, often you're your own worst critic,
your inner critic and that inner talk can be crippling at times for people.
How do you deal with if someone criticises you in the public?
So really working hard on to be able to say, not now,
come back later on and move on.
And also the idea around the use of breathing.
I didn't have those tools four or five years ago now
when I was working at the Brisbane Broncos.
So breathing is a big tool, is it?
It is for me. I do a lot of box breathing,
you know, nasal breathing, four seconds, hold it for four seconds,
breathing out for four seconds through your mouth and then holding for four seconds.
And you're doing sets and reps of that.
And so that really helps me, again, clear my mind.
It helps with down your regulation.
So one of the things and you're talking about being a boss and being a leader
is how do you separate work to them when you get home?
And I actually work pretty close to where I live.
So I have strategies to not only start the day, which is the question you ask,
but actually how I finish my day and how I down regulate from being a head coach
to being a dad or a husband.
And so I'm really deliberate with that.
And when you talk about down regulation, does that mean to de-stress?
Yeah, that's exactly it.
It's an opportunity to take a breath and end one part of your day
before you start another.
Is there anything else you do to fend off the inner critic?
I've got a strategy which is called the FOPP strategy, F-O-F-P-E-S,
so F-O-P, and so essentially when the negativity
or the negative self-talk comes on, I'll say F-O-F-P-E-S
and you can come back later on, but not right now.
And so it's something that I've been really working on hard
with our mental skills coach and our players actually use that same strategy.
So that's one way.
The other way I try and silence that inner critic is through journaling.
And so writing down one thing I'm grateful for, writing down how I'm feeling
and being really, really transparent about how I'm feeling.
If I'm feeling a little bit crappy part of the language, I'll write that down.
And then one thing I've learned that day, gratitude is an excellent thing
to think about, because if you actually focus on the positive
and what you're grateful for, and I think that's really important
for us to reflect on at times.
So, yeah, that's that's sort of the two sort of strategies
that are used most common other than breathing.
OK, Anthony, what is the best piece of career advice you've ever received?
There's been a few, but I think the most important one
or the biggest bit of advice for me is about being curious.
And it's really interesting.
It's come from a couple of different leaders in a couple of different industries.
It's been a pretty common thread across leaders that I've met in my time.
And by being curious, it's actually being open minded
to find a better way of doing things like go outside my industry.
So, you know, I met you through Matt Common from the Commonwealth Bank,
who's the CEO there.
I've just come back from L.A.
I've just come back from going across the Crusaders,
who are a very successful franchise and super rugby over in New Zealand
and in Christchurch, looking at other sports, looking at other industry.
So if there's one idea that I can come and bring back and add to my skill set
or add to the program, then I feel like we're going to continue to improve
and get to that next level.
So be curious is an important piece of advice.
That's interesting.
So are there one or two things that you can point to
that you've learnt through observing Matt Common?
Yeah, he repairs and treats himself as an elite executive.
So by that, he tracks his sleep.
He's very deliberate around his routines, around training and meals, et cetera.
But the thing that really impressed me was how well he prepared
and how well he was able to pivot from performance moment to performance moment.
So when I observed Matt, he was doing an interview with the media.
Then he was able to pivot, get up on stage in front of a couple of hundred people
and deliver a really key message.
And then he was back with some some key staff back at the Commonwealth Bank.
So that idea of being an elite athlete executive,
if that's the right way to describe it, each moment he was able to take a breath,
pivot and then perform in the next moment.
I thought he was exceptional at that.
OK, on that note, Anthony, we're going to take a short break, but don't go away.
When we come back, we're going to open our fabulous chatterbox.
We'll be right back.
Welcome back to 15 Minutes with the Boss.
I'm here with Anthony Siebold, the coach of the Seagulls.
Now, Anthony, this is our section called the Chatterbox.
In front of you is a very glamorous, lo-fi,
quite lo-fi, shiny brown box, inside which are about 20 questions.
I'm going to ask you to have a bit of a fish around, pick up some questions
and we can continue. Am I going one at a time?
One at a time. Thanks. Yes.
What's the most underrated skill that has helped you in your career?
For my career, the most underrated skill is the ability to check
for understanding and retrieve information.
A lot of information gets passed on to players.
And when I came through as a player, coaches would tell you
and you're expected to know it after being told once.
And if you know anything about learning and memory and retention, then
you need to do it more than once.
You need to do it more than once.
And so one of the ways to do that is retrieving information.
So at the end of the meeting, you know, for those people who work
in the corporate space, turn and talk, just share with a colleague beside you.
What's the one or two takeaways that are really important
for you from this meeting?
That's one way you would do it, to retrieve what you've just done in the meeting.
So will you do that in a group, for example?
So you might summarize the meeting.
We some. Yeah. Well, I call it checking for understanding.
Another way to do that is the next time you have a meeting,
you'll link the previous meeting.
So let's just say you have a meeting every Monday in a corporate space.
You'll link the previous Monday's meeting to this meeting.
OK, these are one or two key takeaways from last Monday's meeting.
So this is what we're going to start with.
So again, you're trying to embed the learning.
So there's one thing I do know is forgetting is the opposite of learning.
Right. And that's because you don't retrieve the information
or check for understanding.
So how many times do you think that you need to reinforce the message,
say, to get it through to the player group?
Well, the research suggests that in a given week,
it's three to four times that you need to retrieve
and somewhere between three to five minutes.
That's essentially what we do if we're playing a big game
against the Penrith Panthers or the Melbourne Storm or whoever in the competition.
We really try and narrow our focus to three key things rather than 10 key things.
And then we'll retrieve those three things three times that week at training.
And then we feel that that gives us our best opportunity
for that learning to or that game strategy to be embedded into the players
and then be retrieved on game day, which is the most important day in our week.
Yeah, I love that. OK, next question.
Have a fish. You got it.
What's the most common piece of advice,
work advice or life advice that you think is actually BS?
I think when someone says, don't worry about it,
I think that would be a bit of BS because you do worry about it because you care.
Like in my role, we lose a game as an example.
And someone said, don't worry about it. You'll be right.
Well, I do worry about it because you put a lot of time and effort into it.
So I don't necessarily take that advice on.
I'd rather come up with solutions.
So is that she'll be right attitude not appealing to you?
It doesn't to me, no, and it might to others.
But for me, I do care.
And so if we don't get the performance that we like or if something's happened
in, you know, my family life or whatever, and someone says, I don't worry about it.
Like, I do worry about it because I care about my family.
I care about, you know, my role and adding value to the group.
So if we don't quite get it right, I do worry.
And I guess really in your line of work, if you don't get it right
and say you lose a game, you've also got to pick a team up, I imagine,
because they're feeling down in the dumps. Yeah.
How do you do that?
How do you pick up the team?
Yeah, so there's a number of ways that you can do it.
But one way is actually show what they're doing well.
You know, you don't always have to go to the negative.
Like if you lose a game and you've got five or six days before your next game,
if you just hammer the guys all week with negativity or self-correction and so on,
that's not going to help.
So what I do is, OK, what are we doing well?
And really try and reinforce those things.
And the use of shout outs.
We didn't get the result on the scoreboard, but just point to someone
who helped you on the weekend, do your job.
Just show positive reinforcement.
Hey, we do this and we do it for longer.
Then we'll get the result of the performance that we want.
And so trying to reinforce, I think that's one thing that
I try and use to get a group up.
That is really good advice for all leaders. I love that. Thank you.
OK, let's have another go in the box.
What is your favorite party story you like to share?
When I was playing over the English Super League,
I was playing for a team called London Broncos, and at the time it was owned
by Richard Branson.
So people would know who he is, you know, from Virgin.
London is soccer crazy, not rugby league crazy.
But at the time, he was really trying to ramp up the support of the London Broncos.
So what he organized was for about seven or eight of us to open the Brit Awards,
which is the music industry awards night in Britain in the year 2000.
So Queen and a group called Five, who are a young boy band at the time,
they re-released We Will Rock You.
So they had seven or eight of us London Broncos players
literally playing the kimono drums to start the Brit Awards.
And were you actually playing them?
We were literally playing them, literally playing them.
And you know, like a karate outfit with a headband on and playing them.
Right. So this is like pretty cool.
Performing that same night was Robbie Williams, Spice Girls, Tom Jones,
Natalie Ambrulio. I could go on and on and on.
And so that's my favorite party story that I tell people at a dinner party
or a party that I performed on stage with Queen and I've met Robbie Williams backstage.
And on that note, Anthony, we have finished the Chatterbox section.
I now have one final question, which we ask all our guests.
And that is, if we gave you 12 months off unencumbered,
you could do anything you liked. What would you do?
I'd go sailing in Croatia for about three weeks in the European summer.
It's something that I'm going to do when I finish coaching.
So you learn so much from traveling.
And then the other one is I've got an ambition to live in Manhattan
for six months or something like that with my wife and I just experience,
you know, actually living there day to day for a period of time.
So what go to galleries and shows and all that stuff.
I love watching shows, go to Broadway when I'm in London,
love going to West End, watching shows.
I just love the vibe of Manhattan and particularly Lower East
and particularly around Dumbo, which is sort of just the other side
where Brooklyn is.
For whatever reason, I don't understand why.
It just fascinates me, that sort of stuff.
And I'd love to do that for six months.
A part of that 12 months off that you're going to give us, Sally, would be great.
And that is our 15 minutes up.
Anthony, it's been fantastic talking to you today.
And I really love your advice that people take more than hearing
something once in order to retain something.
The fact that you've got to say it again and again and again.
So let's embed that advice.
And I'll tell you what my key takeaways are.
And they are I really like the way you start the day
and you think about it as being a really important way
to make sure that the day is as successful as it possibly can be.
I love the way that you combat that negative self-talk with a few things
like telling your inner critic to f off and writing a gratitude journal.
I love the way that you are curious and you learn so much from other codes
and indeed other people from business like Matt Common.
And I also really appreciate that, you know, for you that
she'll be right attitude.
The don't worry attitude is not enough.
That is not a solution.
Your job and your passion is to find solutions.
So best of luck for finding solutions in 2025 on the field and off.
And thank you again so much for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the boss.
Thank you so much, Sally. Cheers.
And thank you to everyone for listening.
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The Australian Financial Review.