Summer Series Extended Interview Of Google Md Melanie Silva

Hello and welcome to 15 Minutes with the Boss Summer Series Edition.

With our usual 15 minute time limit, there's a lot of great content that ends up on the

cutting room floor.

So we're really pleased to have the opportunity to play extended interviews of some of our

favourite guests from 2024.

Today we're rebroadcasting a conversation we had with Melanie Silva, the Managing Director

of Google in Australia.

This was such an informative conversation where Melanie revealed her pet hate and her

love for broadcaster Jan Event.

She also explained why she admires Beyonce and shared her negotiating tips.

It's all stuff that didn't make the podcast the first time around.

We so hope you enjoy it.

And if you do enjoy these extended conversations, please let us know on Apple or Spotify and

we'll be sure to do it again.

Happy listening.

Your ability to kind of listen, ask the right questions, absorb and then turn that into

a plan of action, that's what separates sort of good leaders from great leaders.

Stop thinking about your career plan as only up.

Hi, I'm Sally Patton, Editor of Boss from the Australian Financial Review and welcome

to 15 Minutes with the Boss.

A podcast about success and failure and everything in between.

And along the way, we're hoping to get some really great advice from our leaders.

My guest today is Mel Silva, the Managing Director of Google in Australia and New Zealand.

Hi Mel, lovely to see you.

Thank you Sally, lovely to be here.

Now Mel, you're the Managing Director of Google in Australasia, which employs about 2000 people.

The business has built products that have been rolled out globally, such as Google

Maps and I'm reliably informed that you travel to the US three times a year, as well as regular

trips across Australia, New Zealand and Asia-Pacific.

Sounds kind of busy.

It's kind of busy, but it's a lot of fun.

Hope you're not trying to look after a family as well.

Of course I am.

Of course you are, we might come to that.

So thank you so much for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the Boss.

Let's start the clock right now.

My first question is, what time do you get up?

What happens?

I'm guessing you've got children.

I do.

So three, I've got a teenager, a tween and a toddler.

And if you'd have told me that that was going to be the case, I would have laughed in your

face.

But that's the reality.

So I get up at about 5.30, then I kind of stumble out of bed, pour myself a cup of ambition,

as Dolly said, make myself a cup of tea and try to have about that 10 or 15 minutes just

by myself before the little kiddies get up and then we're in the hustle of getting everyone

ready to get off to school.

So my eldest son has got, he's on the way for me in terms of the commute.

So we get some nice sort of morning chat time.

And that's a huge part of my routine, to be honest, is having that little chat with him

in the morning and my hubby picks up the other two and drops them off.

So what do you do for those 10 to 15 minutes of quiet time?

You know, I flick through the phone and see what's sort of been happening around the world

and see what's come in overnight.

But yeah, it's not usually work and reacting and responding at that time.

It's more just absorbing.

And what time would you get to work?

Again, depending on kiddie schedules, some days we've got to get him there at 7.30.

So I get to work usually about quarter to eight.

But most days I'm there by eight o'clock.

And are you a breakfast person?

No, I'm not a breakfast person.

Most days if I eat breakfast, I feel really quite sluggish.

So I tend to just have the coffee and get myself through to lunchtime and then go from

there.

So in general, would you regard mornings as being more on the chaotic end or more on the

sort of quietly organised, everyone just doing their thing end?

Oh, look, there's no rhyme or reason to it, Sally.

It depends.

Sometimes there's, you know, dancing, can't find my shoes, where's this, where's that?

I don't want to eat grapes for breakfast.

I want this for breakfast.

So some days it's very chaotic and other days it does seem like you're an elegant swan just

gliding into the office.

But, you know, I think like most working parents, I feel like, you know, there are some mornings

when you get to the office and you think, oh, my God, I've already run a marathon and

the day hasn't even started yet.

Yeah, I can imagine, I can imagine.

So my next question is, did you have a pivotal moment in your career, a moment that really

changed the trajectory of your career or helped to shape you as a leader?

Yeah, absolutely.

And it was the moment I didn't get a job that I really, really wanted.

There's a bit of a theme here.

That's happened to other people as well.

What was the job that you didn't get?

Well, it was actually the job I have, but I applied for it the sort of round before

and didn't get it.

And, you know, in my mind, I thought I was so ready.

I thought it was my time and it just didn't turn out to be that.

What happened in the weeks following me not getting that job 100% changed the trajectory

of my career.

I had the hiring manager at the time leaned in, told me that he could see my ambition,

told me that I had kind of just been pipped at the post and really spent time trying

to uncover what would be a great next step for me.

And that was the beginning of my sort of trip to go and live in Asia for a couple of years.

I became kind of the strategy and operations lead for Asia Pacific.

And oh my gosh, Sally, I learned so much in that role.

I am 10 times better for the role I have now because of that experience.

So that person really decided that you needed international experience would really help

you develop as a leader.

Yep.

So working in Singapore, but looking across the entire APAC region.

So you got a lot more exposure to things like product strategy and product direction and

how to really execute well at scale across an immensely diverse region.

And the Asia Pacific region is just so vibrant, so different.

It's just basically a circle around some countries that happen to be in the same place in the

world.

There is nothing that Australia has in common with India or Japan or parts of South East

Asia.

Or that they don't really have in common with themselves on lots of levels.

100%.

Exactly.

So it was this really great masterclass in what do customers need in each of these markets?

What are the cultural norms?

What's the competitive landscape?

And then how do you execute at scale?

And getting the balance right between what can be consistent and what needs to be bespoke

in order for you to be successful in a particular market.

And how do you use those skills in Sydney when in Australia you're really looking after

two markets, which are, you'd have to say, probably not that different.

Do you use that knowledge or those skills in a different way?

I think you do.

I mean, look, fundamentally it's about people, right?

What I learned in Singapore was listening and asking the right questions and that having

those hard skills, like being a great salesperson or being a great leader even, will only get

you so far, right?

Your ability to kind of listen, ask the right questions, absorb, and then turn that into

a plan of action, that's what separates sort of good leaders from great leaders.

And of course I use all of those skills today, whether it's listening to customers, listening

to Googlers, listening to my leadership team, all of those things, adapting, really listening

and then putting in place and making the tough decisions.

Yeah.

So how many years later did you reapply for the job?

Well, it was actually shorter than I had expected.

I really planned on being in Singapore for about five and a half years, and that would

have gotten me to the point where my eldest child was just about to start high school.

That was the plan.

But my predecessor decided to actually come and work at Domain in the nine family.

And he left after about two and a half, three years.

So I applied again and then I was successful.

So I came back just towards the end of 2018, so only about two and a half years away.

And do you love what you do?

I absolutely love what I do.

And for a bunch of reasons, right?

I think that I get to play to my strengths, which is probably the number one motivator

for anyone, no matter what level of an organisation you're at.

And those strengths being?

Well, I'm a really good communicator.

The older and wiser that I get, I think the more I lean into that as a strength, I pride

myself in asking the right questions.

I pride myself in being able to challenge people directly in a way that doesn't feel

sort of super intimidating and that really helps people to open up.

I'm a really good listener and I like to have a bit of fun.

I like to bring a bit of levity to situations, so I don't take myself too seriously.

And I think that's a strength.

Excellent.

My next question is, what is the best piece of career advice you've ever been given?

I mean, look, I have a library of these things, so it's pretty hard to choose just one.

OK, top one or two.

Top one or two. OK, so the top one was really just knowing the power of your words.

And I had this incredible boss quite early in my career at Google, actually.

And he said to me, you know, Mel, you've got this great fire in your belly.

You're really commercial.

But, you know, when you speak, people listen.

And so you have to be conscious of what comes out of your mouth.

And I had always been quite a, you know, shoot from the hip type, direct person.

And I really like that about myself.

And so I struggled for a while to think about how do you maintain your authenticity

and your sense of who you are and still be kind of conscious about what's coming out of your mouth?

And then it kind of twigged one day.

You know, you see, I know I've personally experienced walking into an office,

sitting there doing your work and the boss walks in and they don't say hello to you.

Yeah. Or you're in the lift and they say something quite flippant, but it really hurts you.

Or they say something quite flippant that's positive and it really lifts you.

And so it was in that moment where I connected my own experiences with that feedback.

And I just realised that, you know, being intentional about the way you make people feel,

good and bad, is just another sort of skill that you need to acquire as a leader.

And I think particularly now at scale in an organisation of 2000 people,

you know, it is those interactions in the hallway.

It is the interactions at the coffee line and, you know, stuff like that, which people will remember.

So do you find that you're always on show?

And is that tiring to always have to be conscious that you're saying the right thing

with the right tone of voice to everyone?

No, no. And I would hate for people to think it's that at all.

I just, I think about it more this way.

I'm always going to be personable. That's just who I am.

I am the sort of person who will walk the halls and say, hey, hey, how's it going?

Or see you across the stairs and all that kind of stuff.

That's not hard work for me. That's just who I am.

But if I've read something or I've heard something about something that someone's done

that's great, I will always verbalise it.

I won't ever just assume that they know that I know.

I will always make the effort to say, Sally, I saw that huge deal that you closed

and you should be really proud of yourself. You punched it.

And that stuff matters, you know, so it doesn't feel like hard work.

OK. And was there a second piece of advice that you were given that you really appreciated?

Stop thinking about your career plan as only up.

Start thinking about the skills you want to acquire.

Yeah. And going sideways is OK.

Going sideways is OK if you're going to acquire a huge number of skills

or have a set of experiences that you would otherwise not have.

I think it's so narrow minded to only look at your boss's job as the next opportunity.

It's actually sometimes helpful to think, well, what's the job I want in 10 years?

Yeah. And if I applied for it now, what would people say?

And then work back from there in terms of, well, here are the skills I need to acquire

between where I am and where I want to go.

And as long as the job gives me that, I'm going to go in that direction.

So during your career, have you done have you taken a number of sideways steps?

Absolutely. Can you give me some examples? Absolutely.

I mean, starting at Google was a massive sideways step.

I was actually working at Fairfax.

I was running a business. I was the general manager of a business.

I had a really small team, but I had full P&L responsibility.

And I got offered a role at Google as an individual contributor,

doing marketing for one of the vertical teams in sales.

And you thought what? I did not think what my everybody, I think, around me thought what?

But I'd been a customer of Google and I was impressed by the people that I had come across.

I knew that it was just a direction that I wanted to take.

And so, yeah, I took it. It was not a sideways step.

It was actually a backward step. Yeah.

And within Google, you've also taken other sideways steps, have you?

100%. Yeah. So I've, you know, I started out in this marketing role.

Then I moved into sales, which I'd never done before.

And I never thought of myself as a salesperson, but I was running sales for a particular industry vertical in financial services,

because that's where I had worked my whole career.

And then when I came back from having my second child, my boss said,

I think you should do something different. Why don't you go run a different set of verticals?

Which was a completely a sideways step.

Did that again, expanded my knowledge, then went on to do the strategy and operations role and now back into the country manager role.

So, yeah, I mean, and look, even before joining Google, I just always have had this view of like,

I need to sort of acquire as many skills as possible until I'm about 40.

Yeah. Because even if I work from 40 till 65, that's still 25 years to like hone my craft.

So figure out what is you actually want to do.

And that's just always been the approach that I've taken.

That's an interesting cut off point.

Gather as many skills as you can until you're 40 and then hone them.

Yeah. You have 25 years to get great at it.

Yeah, sounds good to me.

OK, Mel, on that note, stay right where you are.

We're going to take a short break.

And when we come back, we're going to open our very famous chatterbox.

Nervous.

Hello and welcome back to 15 minutes with the boss.

I'm here with Mel Silva, the managing director of Google in Australia and New Zealand.

Now, Mel, in front of you here is this lovely box called our chatterbox inside,

which are 20 questions all wrapped on pieces of paper.

I'd like you to have a bit of a fish around the box.

Select one, which I will then ask you to answer and we'll do this a few times.

All right. OK, I've got the vibes.

Got the vibe. OK.

What's the piece of advice that you would give your younger self?

Really kick the tires on the difference between what your brain's telling you is happening

and what's actually happening.

Ah, please explain.

I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist and it's something I'm constantly working on.

But I think there were definitely times in my career where something would happen

and I would catastrophize it in my mind and I would think it was the end of the world.

And that would create like a sense of anxiety.

And as I've gotten older, and I've had great coaches, by the way,

who've helped me sort of figure that out,

is just applying this test of like what right now is actually the evidence in front of you.

As opposed to the catastrophising going on in your head.

As opposed to the story you're telling yourself about what's actually happening, right?

So, you know, we talked earlier about me moving to run a different set of verticals.

There was a moment where I thought, oh, this is the end of my career.

I'm really good at financial services.

I'm really good at financial services.

I'm not going to be as good as that.

Instead of just pivoting to you're going to learn a lot more about setting up a team from scratch,

being outside your comfort zone, all those kind of things.

So I got there eventually.

And as I've gotten older, I've gotten a lot better at that.

But I would definitely go back and tell my younger self, look at the facts in front of you.

Be more objective about yourself.

Yeah. Good advice.

I think my younger self could have done with that sort of advice too, actually.

OK, Mel, have a fish around.

This looks like a long one.

This looks like a...

Oh, no, it's short actually.

What's your pet hate in the office?

Oh, OK.

This is very revealing.

Lateness.

Oh, lateness to meetings.

Every way, shape and form of lateness.

If you say you're going to do something at a certain time, do it.

If you have a meeting that's got a huge number of people in it, show up on time.

And, you know, if you can't, just send someone a little message and say you're running late.

There's something about doing what you say you're going to do that I value very highly.

And so it's my pet hate.

And presumably your team are well aware of this by now?

Yeah. Look, it's actually less late to meetings and more if there are deliverables that are due

and deadlines that we've set that teams are depending on.

Don't let the team down.

You can always tell me that something's going to be late and I'll have no issue with it.

You can always tell me the week before something's due that you're not going to make it.

But telling me on the day that it's due that it's not going to happen really gets my goat.

That's very good advice for people who are perpetually late.

OK, I'm having another forage around.

Let's go to the next question.

There you go.

Oh, this is interesting.

Who is the best negotiator you've ever met?

My current assistant is actually a very good negotiator.

I mean, I think that you, you know, when you have to observe someone who's working as your sort of admin partner

and just the level of trade-offs and negotiation she has to do on your behalf,

on the calendar Tetris, on whether you will be there for this trip or not,

or how all the pieces are going to work together with the leadership team schedule,

which is something that we kind of try to make sure we don't disturb too much.

She's a wonderful negotiator.

And how do you think she does that?

Do you think she does it by being very nice and patient with people

and just trying to explain to them why things need to be moved around?

Look, I think it's a trait of that particular role.

Now that I think about it, a lot of the admin business partners I've worked with in the past all have this skill.

They are acutely aware that they will need to call in a favour in the future.

So they have this like intrinsic long term view.

And so when they know that they're going to be disappointing someone,

I think they do it in a way that knows that it's going to come back one day.

And so it's constantly balancing the outcome with the human.

And I think that's an incredible negotiation skill to have.

And I guess they understand that what comes around goes around.

Absolutely. Yeah, spot on.

So what are the key skills that a good negotiator needs?

Look, I think in terms of skills, listening is the big one.

But I kind of think about it in terms of you're going to be having a conversation with another human being.

So you do need to have some sort of empathy skills.

You need to understand what they want. You need to understand what you want.

So I think people who are able to come to a negotiation table,

seeing that there is another human being at the other side of it, are always more successful.

And that's where the listening comes in. What are the questions that you're asking?

What are the things you're listening out for?

And how are you going to apply all the things you've heard into framing up offers and counteroffers?

So they're the kind of skills I think that are really successful,

but also knowing where the red lines are, right?

Knowing when to stop, knowing when no deal is better than a bad deal.

And that takes a lot of grit. That takes sort of a really strong sort of personality type.

So they're the things that I think work.

And are you also thinking consciously about wanting to get the best possible deal all the time?

Or do you consciously think that you want to leave something on the table

because then both sides are going to be happy in the negotiation?

Well, I think if your definition of the best deal is how can both parties succeed in the best and most optimal way,

then of course I will always be going for the best deal.

I don't ever look at it in terms of how can I take the most and gain the most.

I think it's about long term deals, which is the sort of business that we're in.

You need to make sure that both parties are successful and want to get to a renewal in four or five years time

where they want to do business with each other again.

So if that's the goal, then you sort of take things a little bit differently.

And in your experience, do you think that most people have that attitude that they don't want to just try and at all costs get the best deal?

Do most people look for a deal that is really going to suit both parties?

I mean, I think it depends.

You know, like if you're at, you know, the local appliance store and you know, it's a transactional thing.

You're going to go in there once and buy a washing machine.

You want to get the best deal, right?

In the business that we're in, we're talking about partnership and building things together or doing things together.

You don't want day one of those sorts of deals to be, oh, God, they really screwed me.

You know, I think relationships and that's why, you know, as I say, the humanity part of it is really important.

Be human. Yeah.

OK, next question. OK.

When you were in school, what did you want to be when you grew up?

I was obsessed with Yarn Event when I was growing up and I wanted to be a journalist and a newsreader.

I wanted to be an investigative journalist.

My dad has videos of me.

I would just do assignments in that format.

I would get him to video me and I would deliver it like I was delivering a news story.

Yeah. And he brought me like a headset once with a microphone and I'd record my own radio show.

Like it was serious.

I was serious. But I've tried to unpack what it was.

I definitely am one of those people that likes to get to the heart of the issue or the concept, right?

I want to understand why, why, why and why.

But I think more as a human, the reality for girls growing up at that time was they had never seen someone like that before on Australian TV screens.

And, you know, I'm my family's from Europe and they sort of emigrated to Australia.

And to see someone who had a name that wasn't that easy to pronounce, who was doing incredible work and being recognised for it and was a woman that had never been in my world before.

And we should say that Yarn Event was one of the most famous female broadcasters of the 1980s.

Yes, like she was everywhere and she was known for being smart and intelligent.

It really struck a chord with me to see someone like that being so successful.

And I think I carry that through today.

So are you really conscious that you can't be what you can't see?

And is that something that you take with you into your office?

I mean, I think hindsight's 2020, right?

So when I look back and I think about what my experiences were,

I remember the Yarna situation because it was that.

I had never seen that before and it inspired me to think that I could do that myself.

When I started my first job and I walked in and my, you know, head of the department and my MD were both women,

I didn't sort of like high five myself and say yay for the sisterhood.

It was normal to, for me, it was normal.

It wasn't until much later that I looked back and I thought, whoa,

how lucky I was that that happenstance just, you know, was my experience.

It actually wasn't normal at all.

It was not normal at all.

And it's not what everyone experiences.

And so I think you do have to make sure that you pay that stuff forward when you're a female or from a different background.

And, you know, you're helping people to see all sorts of you, like all parts of you.

I think diversity and equity and inclusion are really important.

But how do you make that real in the real world?

It's by letting people bring their whole self to work, the whole self.

So in your case, you're a fairly young leader with young children.

Is that something that you model for women who are younger than you who can see that,

yes, it is quite possible to have a young family and do both jobs really well.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, you know, I don't sort of it's not like I sort of constantly talk about it,

but I make myself available for them to talk to me about it.

And I share my vulnerabilities with people.

I'm pretty open book.

So if I've had a terrible morning and been, you know, vomited on, I'm the first one to tell you about that.

Still over your shirt.

Yeah, but I think that there's especially with respect to motherhood,

there's a whole lot of experiences that you go through, especially that first time where it just feels relentless.

And when you say that to another mother and they kind of feel like they're being seen,

and they're allowed to say it, you know, I think that's that creates a connection with people.

Right. So, you know, and it's also the truth.

It is relentless.

OK, interesting. So what happened along the way?

Why did you not become Yana Vett?

OK, so the other downside of growing up in an immigrant family, I think is, you know,

and look, I probably could have pushed through this, but my dad had a huge impact on me in that regard.

Like he he said to me, just be practical because there's only one Yana.

And, you know, she's pretty special.

Yeah, but I've got to say, as I got older, because I have reflected back on this and gone,

well, you know what, I'm a hard worker. I've got a good work ethic.

I probably would have been successful at anything I tried.

Why didn't I continue with that? And I feel like I stumbled into my degree, right?

I I was quite good at economics when I was at school.

So I did an economics degree and then I started working in banking.

And it wasn't until I was sort of in my late 20s and I was like, oh, look, I'm really good at this stuff, but I don't enjoy it.

Banking? Yeah, I don't enjoy the culture of it.

And I wasn't really, you know, having the best time.

I'd been very successful, but I wasn't having the best time.

You know, so that was like a huge pivot moment for me.

But I kind of wonder why I didn't push through at that time.

And so, you know, the lesson for me now as a parent, connecting all these dots, right?

The power of your words.

I don't think my dad's intention at that time was to sort of dissuade me from following a dream.

He was just trying to tell me to be realistic.

But what I heard was it's near impossible to to be her.

Yeah, it's all about just taking really care of the words that you're using because you don't know how someone is going to interpret those words.

Well, so if I was if I was in this situation today, I think what I would be saying to my kids with this lesson under my belt is,

OK, what do you think you need to do every day to be like that?

What do you think the best journalist in the world does every day?

What does their routine look like?

What do you need to get good at?

Yeah, that's what I do.

I turn it into something they can control.

Yeah, it's good advice.

OK, have one more forage.

Who is a leader, business or otherwise, whom you really admire and why?

Some people will think this is a very predictable answer for me,

and other people will probably be surprised and think it's frivolous, but hear me out.

OK, I am a huge Beyonce fan.

Huge Beyonce fan.

And I respect her as a businesswoman and as an artist for so many reasons.

Like, you know, Sally, we were just talking about what are the things you can control that you need to do well every day?

I think, you know, from what I have seen and read about her, there is a discipline there,

but a self-belief there that is just unrelenting.

And I think no matter what industry you're in, no matter what career you have,

no matter where you are in your career, if you have those two things,

like a really good work ethic, a really good routine and strong belief,

you'll be the best at everything that you try, right?

I mean, obviously commercially very successful as well, clearly in her own right.

But this evolution, I think of her as an artist,

I do draw some similarities with your kind of style of leadership as well.

Like you don't, you sort of start out always thinking you're going to do what people want you to do and what's expected of you.

And then as you get a little bit older and wiser, you realise that you have these strengths

and that you can take some risks and do things a little bit differently and think outside the box.

And I think when I look at the art, just the output of her art, it's evolved so much.

Yeah, and she must have, I mean, she's clearly taken enormous control of her own business

and her own life and her persona, and she is her own personal CEO.

Absolutely. And even just from the managing her privacy really well, right?

And some might say that's this huge constructed image that she wants to have of herself.

But that requires strength.

It requires a lot of self-control to keep those boundaries up and be the boss of your boundaries,

which is something that I try to do every day.

And what I tell my folks at Google to try and do as well.

And she must have amazing resilience, as you say.

Oh, she's a phenomenon.

I'm now going to ask you now one more question, which we ask all our guests.

And that is, if we gave you a year off, you were unencumbered, even with our children,

you could do anything you liked. What would you do?

I'm a huge music fan.

Oh, really?

I would map out a year of like awesome gigs I would love to go to around the world.

And I would just go for it.

There's something about going to see a gig in a place you're not familiar with

that is just awesome. And it fills your soul.

So I would probably just travel the world going to see a year of gigging.

Yeah. Gigs.

And who are your favourite musical artists?

Well, if I could construct what that list would be.

Yeah, we'll let you do that.

I would definitely see Beyonce again. I would see Kylie.

I would see Gang of Youths. I love Gang of Youths.

I mean, if I'm unencumbered and I can live in the fantasy world, I would love to see

like Jumeirah Quay and Radiohead and all these bands that are probably all split up.

I'd love to have gone to an Oasis gig in the day.

You know, seeing Boy George DJ.

My taste is quite broad.

Well, fingers crossed they might come back together for you.

I mean, fingers crossed Beyonce might actually come to Australia.

You never know.

On that note, our time is up.

It's been an absolute delight chatting to you.

I love the way you talk about moving sideways rather moving up all the time.

And indeed, moving sideways may become the new moving up.

I love the idea that you've been hell bent on acquiring as many skills as you can until

you're 40 and then you want to hone in on them over the next 20 to 25 years.

And I like your dislike of lateness.

You would do extremely well as a journalist.

And you know, you love Beyonce.

What's not to love about that?

I mean, she's a queen.

So thanks again so much for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the boss.

Thanks, Sally. Great to be here.

Thank you for tuning into our summer series.

We hope you enjoyed that extended chat with Melanie Silva.

Please be sure to check back in next week when we

replay our conversation with Deloitte Chief Executive Adam Poick.

At The Finance Review, we investigate the big stories about markets, business and power.

You can subscribe to The Finance Review,

The Daily Habit of Successful People at afr.com forward slash subscribe.

This podcast was hosted by me, Sally Patton,

produced and edited by Lap Fan, our theme is by Alex Gao,

and our executive producer is Fiona Buffini.