The Australian Financial Review Hello and welcome to 15 Minutes with the Boss
Summer Series Edition.
Today we're rebroadcasting our conversation with the Law Chief Executive, Adam Poeck.
In this conversation, Adam not only reflected on the power of feedback and creating an open
and honest culture, but he also talked about the sacrifices he's made in his career, particularly
in terms of family time and how he balances work life and family life.
Unfortunately, it's all stuff we couldn't get in the first time, so we so hope you enjoy
this extended version.
Thank you and happy listening.
It doesn't matter how you perceive yourself, it matters how others perceive you.
And that feedback I could use and I could apply for the rest of my career, that was
incredibly different.
Within two years, I got two completely different pieces of feedback and one made no difference
It just meant that I did the same thing and was in the same situation, failed again the
And the second piece of feedback I could apply and it changed the path of my career.
Hi, I'm Sally Patton, editor of Boss from the Australian Financial Review.
And welcome to 15 Minutes with the Boss, a podcast about success and failure and everything
And along the way, we're hoping to get some great advice from our leaders.
My guest today is Adam Poeck, the Chief Executive of Deloitte in Australia.
Hi, Adam, lovely to see you.
Thank you so much for coming in.
It's great to be here, Sally.
Now, Adam, you're the CEO of Deloitte in Australia, Deloitte being a professional services firm.
You have locally 13,000 employees, about 1,000 partners.
And last year you recorded a revenue of $2.9 billion.
13,000 employees, that's quite a few people under your watch.
Do you think about that very much?
I think about that every day.
I think that's your ultimate responsibility as a leader is to ensure that the people that
are under your care, in a sense, as an employer, are looked after, they have jobs, they have
futures, you're investing in them appropriately, you're getting the most out of them.
So yeah, it's probably one of the first things you think about every night before you go
Yeah, interesting.
Okay, we haven't got very much time.
Let's start the clock right now.
So, Adam, my first question is about your morning routine.
What time do you get out of bed?
Look, to be honest, this job, there is no routine.
Every day is completely different.
I tend to start around about seven, look at today, got up at seven, got myself ready,
went into the office, presented to a whole bunch of partners, jumped on a plane up here
to see you, so then clients this afternoon will have another partner presentation in
Sydney later on today, then see some global leaders and jump on the last flight home back
to Melbourne tonight, getting home, I don't know, 10.30, 11.
The only routine I would have in a day consistently is I try to build enough time to think at
the start of the day.
So I want 30, 60 minutes where I can think.
I can look at the overnight news, I can reflect on what's ahead of me that day, prepare appropriately
That's a real part of the routine I would build.
So do you try and do that as soon as you get up at seven o'clock?
And you'll do that while you're walking or in bed or while you're having breakfast?
If I've got a presentation, I actually close my eyes and run through a presentation while
I'm still in bed.
But then I might go for a walk, I'll go into the study, I want to look at the news, I want
to just see what's coming overnight.
These sort of roles, you can't be 24 hours behind on the news cycle.
And then you look at the day ahead, and today I had an interview with you.
So okay, that's interesting.
So what are some of the key points or questions that might come up?
So you just start to prepare for the day.
So you really try and build that 60 to 90 minutes of sort of thinking time first thing
And I don't take any meetings before midday on a Monday.
I actually look at things in terms of a week, and I prepare my week.
So I refuse to have a meeting before midday on a Monday.
So I've got time to look at that week, think, prepare for the week ahead, and then each
day try to build in enough thinking time.
That was a key lesson I learned from a mentor many years ago.
When did you first start doing that, having morning free Mondays?
As soon as I became CEO.
I was an Asia pack and global rival before I was traveling all the time.
And when it came to this role, I looked at it in the complexity of the role and said,
what are some things I'm going to change?
And I said, I need time to think.
From day one, I told all my partners and everybody knows I don't get a meeting before midday
on a Monday so that I can think, prepare for the week and make sure I hit the week running
by the time things start.
And are you tempted to do that on other days of the week too to build an even more thinking
time or is that sufficient?
No, every single day.
As I said, I'll build in 30, 60 minutes every single day and I'll build them in on Saturday,
before the family get up and about just to think and scribble and really just reflect
on the world around me.
And do you actually physically have a notepad nearby that you scroll through?
And I doodle as well.
Lots of golf course doodles in there and lots of doodles.
But I use that to think and I'm still maybe old fashioned.
I use digital technology a lot, but I pen and paper, just really starting connect the
dots and just draw out my thoughts, my reflections.
So I do that all the time.
And are you a breakfast kind of guy?
I don't drink coffee.
I don't drink tea.
I don't really eat breakfast too much.
I think I get started.
And then somewhere through the day, I'll get some refreshment at lunchtime and then have
I get up and I think and go.
Once my brain starts, that's it.
I want to take advantage of that.
So if you do that sort of very intense preparation early in the day, do you like to finish early
Because your brain, does your brain get tired towards the end of the day?
I'll do my writing in the morning.
I'll do my presentation preparations in the morning.
We're all different.
So I'm a morning person in the sense that's when I do my best thinking and it gets you
But yes, the most intense thinking I always do in the morning first thing.
My next question is about a pivotal moment in your career.
Was there some point in your career which really changed the trajectory of what you
were doing or changed you in some major way?
Yeah, like I probably cheat to do two.
There were two moments.
You're allowed to cheat.
Thank you, Celia.
One was mid-90s, 1995.
I was about 29 years old.
I went over to the US for two years on a secondment with my wife and a 13-month-old baby.
And that was a life-changing experience.
And it wasn't easy.
We had a second child.
We were over there, so two young kids in a small apartment in a city on the other side
And who were you working for at the time?
But it completely changed my perspective of the world.
It gave me a global perspective.
It took me out of my comfort zone.
And it also gave me the confidence to know that I could succeed in a totally unfamiliar
environment, which I've taken back as well.
So that was number one.
The second was I ran for Deloitte CEO in the back end of 2014.
It was very visible.
It was very visible in the media, very visible internally.
And then going through that process and failing very publicly in some ways and then learning
how to carry yourself with grace, how to regroup, show resilience, back yourself, give yourself
time to take on new opportunities.
And look, here we are 10 years later.
I am in that particular role.
Strangely enough, I'm now the CEO of Deloitte Australia.
But they're two, I look back, pivotal moments in my career.
So when you lost out the first time, did you consciously go and acquire more skills or
do different roles that would make you a more rounded candidate for next time around if
I think when you go for a role and you fail, you don't, you almost park that role.
I never thought it would ever come back again.
But the first point of your question is absolutely, what else could I do?
You know, learn the lessons from that and I can come back to one or two of those.
Yeah, why do you think you failed?
Well, it probably comes back to a number of things.
It'll come back to, you know, one of the things I see, one of the most important lessons in
life is how I was perceived as a leader.
So I failed to make partner twice.
So I got through the third time.
So I failed plenty of times in my career.
And it's interesting.
You usually get feedback when you fail.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
You're doing a good job.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
Now, that is BS feedback.
You know, that is completely inappropriate feedback.
But the second time I failed as a partner, and it's what also happened at CEO, it was
how people perceive me.
So I was a bit of a rat bag.
I was a larrikin.
And that's why I failed a couple of times as I came through to partner.
I didn't realize how people perceive me.
Did I have the gravitas?
And this flowed through.
That flowed through another, you know, 10 years later when I was running for CEO.
Could Adam really take away that joker mentality that larrikin, edgy has and be a CEO and representatives
and be it wherever it is with senior clients in a consistent way with gravitas?
And so it was how I was perceived.
And so it was really interesting.
It wasn't so much my mix of skills, although there were things that I didn't do after
that I got more global experience, more Asian experience, and I rounded myself out in a
broader worldview.
But yeah, it was how I was perceived was what I had to really come and understand and then
How did you change that perception?
Because clearly you did or you wouldn't be where you are today.
Knowing the situation being situationally appropriate, knowing the situation you're
in, how you want to carry yourself.
So what I've always done for a long time, and particularly since that time, I've written
down two or three words.
How would I like to come across in this particular setting?
Is it is it thoughtful?
Is it inspirational?
Is it you know, choosing words that actually help frame your focus and your mindset as
you go into a forum.
And so it's appropriate for that.
So situational appropriateness is something I learnt.
There were times to muck around and have a joke and have a beer.
But there are other times when you needed to put on, you know, a different leadership
So do you think about that every time you go into a forum or a meeting, the two or three
things or words that I want to use to describe my behaviour in that meeting?
Yeah, it's a discipline for me now.
Just sit down, what are two or three words and single words that I would like to come
across as part in this meeting or in this forum.
After every meeting, after every presentation I present all the time, I always give myself
a rating out of 10.
That's also a discipline that's been instilled in me as to what could I have improved?
How could I have better engaged the audience?
Was there something I could have done better?
So it's just constant learning cycle, I think.
And so part of it, they're the sort of lessons I learnt as you go through experiences like
failing to get roles through your career.
Yeah, interesting.
They're big life lessons, actually, aren't they?
You talk about people giving feedback, but what sort of feedback doesn't work and what
Well, the example I just spoke about, the first year I didn't make partner, I was just
told you're doing a great job, just keep doing what you do, but that is BS because you always,
every human needs to improve.
I need to keep growing and learning as a CEO every single day in my role.
So someone tells you you're doing fine, you don't need to do anything else.
That's the worst possible piece of feedback and advice you can ever get.
You should be asking what else can I do, as I said to you before, how am I perceived?
The second year, though, I failed to make partner.
I kept asking why, why, why, and eventually I got that, that you are perceived as a larrikin,
as a lad, you have the gravitas.
And then we started to talk about feedback, okay, what can I do to change that, that perception?
And that feedback I could use, I could apply for the rest of my career.
That was incredibly different.
Within two years, the same point in my career, I got two completely different pieces of feedback.
And one made no difference whatsoever, it just meant that I did the same thing and was in the
same situation, failed again the following year, and the second piece of feedback I could apply
and it changed the path of my career.
So the difference there is that someone's got the courage to actually tell you what they think,
and someone else is just fobbing off the question with...
They fob it off, kick it down the road.
And kicking down the road, the one thing you learn in life is issues never get better with time.
Lean in, have the honest conversation, that's the fairest for the person you're talking to.
Because if they don't know, and I didn't know, you know, I'm going to have the same issue,
but it's a bigger issue in a year's time.
It doesn't get better.
And if I hadn't been told then, I would have kept, you know, blindly moving on through my
career with this, with this anchor that I didn't understand.
Yeah, no, it's so true.
So Adam, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?
The number one piece of advice was actually along the theme I've just spoken about, know how
you're perceived by others.
So when we go through our careers, people talk about understanding your strengths and
weaknesses, yeah, that's cool, that's important.
But what is more important is how others perceive you.
They perceive you as being too quiet, in my case, perhaps too loud, too brash, too
intellectual, you speak too much, you know, whatever it is, you're too analytical.
You need to understand how others perceive you, because it doesn't matter how you
perceive yourself in life.
It matters how others perceive you.
And it's the number one question I think everybody should ask the people around them.
How am I perceived?
It takes courage.
But if you do that, you get gold back.
So at Deloitte, do you do 360 reviews of everybody?
And is that something that you've instigated or has that always been part of the
Deloitte furniture?
It's in your senior levels, I've helped with my talent leader instigate a 360 upward
feedback, because that's actually really, really critical.
We always had peer feedback and if you like downward or hierarchical feedback, but we
weren't focused as much on upward feedback.
And you actually learn more from the people you manage than anyone else, because
they see you, they actually give you feedback.
They see who you really are as a leader, typically the people that work with you
and who report through to you.
So yeah, 360, the upward feedback is something that I've placed a great emphasis on.
Interesting, because you can't really ask people directly, right?
What do you think of me?
They're not going to tell you the truth.
It's got to be done as some sort of survey, I guess.
I know I probably have a slightly, yes, it's a survey and people can do that
anonymously and in many cases you give more direct feedback.
But I think that question, that's why it takes courage.
You actually have to look someone in the eye and say, tell me how I'm perceived.
How do you perceive me?
That is my number one lesson I learned through that process, because whispers in the
background actually don't help you.
If you find, so you're going to find somebody you trust and you've also got to
find people close to you.
And importantly, those not as close to you who observe you a little distance.
How do they perceive you?
But I've found I've been able to get that feedback when I make people comfortable.
I let them know why I'm asking the question.
So I actually have to have the courage to ask it directly.
That's really good advice.
So you don't have to do it through some sort of formal program.
You could actually go and just ask someone, explain why you're asking, because
you genuinely want some help and feedback from them.
And I'm, look, I do that on a regular basis, all levels of the organisation, just
as to ask how the leadership is perceived, how I'm perceived, what else could we be
doing and trying to make sure people understand they're comfortable enough to
be able to provide that feedback as well, create an environment like that.
But Adam, courage goes both ways.
You're relying on the person whom you're asking to equally have a lot of courage
to tell you the truth.
The number one thing I think we can do as leaders in 2024 is to create an
environment of openness and transparency and honesty.
Now that's not easy.
And I get that as power distance, you've got to work through, but that is the
number one thing I'm trying to do as a leader at Deloitte is to create that
environment where we can have those honest conversations and people feel free.
And so I do open Q&A with all my staff and I answer every single question.
And in order it comes in, it doesn't know what the topic is.
When I first started, everyone used to put in anonymously and I said, no, no,
let's not do that.
And it's interesting.
We're now getting more questions, even deeper questions now, and no one's
anonymous, they feel comfortable enough to actually ask that question.
My trick, of course, when I answer it or provide feedback is not to do that in a
defensive way, to do that in a constructive way.
So that's the number one thing I'm trying to drive through the culture, but you're
absolutely right.
Courage does go both ways.
All right, Adam, on that note, we're going to take a short break.
When we come back, we're going to open our famous chatterbox.
Welcome back to 15 minutes with the boss.
I'm here with Adam Poeck, the chief executive of Deloitte in Australia.
Now, Adam, this is our section as hopefully by now, you know, called the
chatterbox in front of you is this lovely shiny brown box inside, which are
probably 20 to 30 questions today, all folded up on little bits of paper.
I'm going to invite you to have a bit of a forage around the box, pick some, and
I'm then going to ask you to answer them.
If you had time to learn a new skill, what would it be?
I'm a technologist all the way, all the way through my career.
So what I'm, what I want to learn about, and I'm also an aerospace
engineer back in the day.
So the three things that I want to learn more about right now, artificial
intelligence, quantum computing and space technology, and even the combination
of those, how they're going to come together.
So that's for me, that would be what I want to learn a new skill.
Does that count as a skill, Sally?
Yeah, we can count that as a skill.
So on the AI front and generative AI, to what extent do you use tools
like chat GPT in your own work?
I'm learning more and more.
I think this is transformative.
I was an AI programmer back in the 1980s.
So I followed AI for 30 years and it hasn't excited me that much, even
though there have been developments.
But when chat GPT came out, I said, this is transformative.
This is where this technology gets real.
All of a sudden you democratize it.
Gets in the hands of users like us and using an English language interface.
So I'm using it for a whole range of things right now.
I'm learning and I want to underpin all the services that we offer
at Deloitte with generative AI.
And for me, it is anywhere there's a knowledge source and we're a
knowledge worker profession, it is a huge burn to productivity, cut through
a whole range of things we do in a manual sense, just to try to find information.
So I'm incredibly excited about what we could do with chat GPT.
And I use it to research at the moment, mainly just do research on different
topics and cut through, find me sources and give me a different perspective.
So you almost use it like a Google search.
Yeah, more sophisticated though.
Cause what you can do is you can interrogate it in a sophisticated way,
much more sophisticated way.
And so we've got a, we, we've got this training course called prompt
like a boss that we all go through.
So what's it called?
Prompt like a boss.
How do you a prompted a chat GPT tool in a way, if you want to make an
Americana pizza, you can just do how to make Americana pizza, put in Google.
All you can say to chat GPT, I'm a master pizza chef.
I'm a specialist in Asian fusion cuisine.
I've got 20 people coming along and they've got a range of different,
you know, tastes that they come along and age groups say, how would I make a pizza?
What would that recipe be?
And if you do that, you get a completely different, a much more sophisticated
answer than you would ever would out of a Google search.
And that's just one example.
Oh, so you do courses to help your staff input the right questions.
And if you wanted to understand something about the accounting code, for example,
there's a way I can put a simple question, or you can put a much more
sophisticated. So I'm a, you know, my 20 year experienced accountant.
I've got global experience.
Here's the topic I want to get a treatise on, which might be, you know, I want a
300 page answer to this question.
You get a very sophisticated, very different answer than you will out of a
Sounds like a great course to do because it's a real skill knowing what questions
Yeah. So prompt engineering is actually now a career.
So we've got some of our best and brightest youngest practitioners who now
are just experts at prompt engineering.
They're the ones teaching us actually.
That's what I find interesting.
It's not my generation teaching the next generation.
It's the youngest generation teaching us how to get the most out of these tools,
which I find fascinating.
Are there any sacrifices that you've had to make in order for you to do your job
Yeah, there's no doubt there's sacrifices.
And it's, it's probably something that isn't spoken about too much, but you do
sacrifice your family time.
Cause you have to travel a lot, right?
And it's time consuming.
I'm a lifetime platinum and anyone who understands what that means, I have
traveled a lot for 30, 40 years of my career.
So you do miss the first walk, the first words, you know, you miss some
graduations, you try to make that up as well as you can on weekends and things
like that, but you do miss some pretty significant moments.
And so there are sacrifices and the trick is how do you balance that?
And one of the expressions that really resonates with me is it's an all blacks
expression, play where your feet are.
And what that means is be present.
Where your feet are be 100% present.
I'm with you now, Sally.
I'm a hundred percent present with you, but when you, with your family, with your
friends, where you're doing one of your hobbies, be present in that particular
And that's how I found a way to get through that and try to minimize the
sacrifices because time wise, I can't give the time, but you can give it back
by being present.
I don't always do that as well as I should, but that is something that I
absolutely try to live by.
Cause presumably your mind must wander off into work related areas.
How do you control your mind to make sure you do stay present all the time?
I doodle, which is a weird thing to say in meetings.
People don't understand this.
The reason I can stay with the conversation, my mind's moving ahead at
a hundred miles an hour, a whole range of different directions.
What that does is enables me to focus a hundred percent of the
conversation in front of me.
So I've got a number of tricks like that.
Cause if I'm not doing that, my brain is instead of doodling, focusing on the
doodle, it's off thinking about something else.
I actually take parts of my brain to occupy those.
So I can focus a hundred percent on what's in front of me.
So you're doodling and listening.
And people don't get that.
And it's quite disconcerting because it looks like I'm not paying attention.
And then I'll ask a question and they'll understand I'm paying attention 100%.
And I doodle so I can pay attention a hundred percent.
You know, that's one of the techniques I've learned over the years, even though
it can be some disconcerting, others often have to apologize, but I doodle
some pretty good golf courses and pretty good cartoons as well on the way.
Actually doodle while I talk to people.
Well, it depends.
It depends on the topic.
Sometimes if I'm a hundred percent engaged in a conversation, I don't doodle.
But if I know my mind's going to wander, it's a bit dry.
I will doodle so I can make sure I give everybody a hundred percent of my focus.
Oh, that's a great tool.
Next question, Adam, have a fish.
Do you have hobbies?
I'm a sportsman, played sport my whole life.
Still run around a cricket field, which is pretty silly at my age.
I often limping around the office on a Monday morning.
I'm a captain of the team, veterans cricket.
It's a lot of fun, actually.
Wow, that's fantastic.
Yeah, I still play cricket, I still play golf, pickleball now.
Well, I played tennis with my wife, but now we're going pickleball,
which is the new rage, the new thing.
I'm learning it's somewhere between squash and badminton and table tennis.
It's an interesting game to pick up.
So a lot of sport as hobbies, a lot of reading.
I like to learn, as I said to you before, I like to learn a range of topics.
And I love to read when I can read historical fiction.
And any recent books you can point to?
I love Bill Bryson because he, and it's on the body.
It's basically bringing your anatomy and biology to life.
But he does it in a very down to earth way, very accessible way.
I'm not a medical person at all, but you read that and you start to understand
how your, every part of your body is there for a reason, which is pretty,
maybe your spleen isn't, but everything else is there for a reason.
So yeah, Bill Bryson, I find a very interesting author who can take
something complex and make it simple.
Yeah, it's a great skill.
And how often do you get on the golf course?
Not enough, two or three times a month when I can.
That's not too bad.
But I try to, I'd love to get there at least once or twice a week if I could.
In between everything else and your cricket, that's pretty good.
Well, I'll do my best.
If there's a ball involved, have a kick of the footy in the park or something.
And that, that's sort of what relaxes me.
Adam, have another fish.
What's your favorite podcast or streaming show and why?
Yeah, it's interesting.
I'll go with the most recent because there's one I've really loved recently.
It's called The Gentleman.
English show on Netflix, Guy Ritchie.
I don't know if you know, I like Guy Ritchie.
And it's interesting because it's irreverent.
I love irreverent shows and there's this humor in there.
It's dark humor, but it's, there's a lot of pragmatic problem solving under real pressure.
Like I always get a lot out of shows and that is a really entertaining show, but
it's also got some lessons in terms of how you might tackle certain situations
that look impossible and how you work through those in a calm way and in a
strategic way, but yeah, I really liked that show.
So do you think you learned from watching how other people problem solve?
I learned from every single person I meet everywhere.
And that's, that's something that I've done all the way through because I
understand I've got a whole bunch of limitations.
So I learned from everybody and I always watch how they think, how they
communicate, how they might problem solve.
It may not be for me, but I'm always watching.
So I'm watching a show like on Netflix and people just go, that's just
like entertainment.
No, I'm thinking, I'm reflecting.
What would I do in that situation?
So yeah, I try to learn from every experience, every person, every book,
every show in some ways, you know, you know, buying Beverly Hills is not
necessarily the easiest thing to learn what the lessons are, but even there you
can because you watch the art of negotiation in shows like that.
So yeah, I learned from pretty much every show.
So which show was that?
It's buying Beverly Hills.
It's a, it's a real estate show somewhere on the reality end of the
spectrum, even maths you learn from.
And that's terrifying, but you can learn in terms of relationship
communication and all those sorts of things.
So yeah, anything I watch, I try to take some lessons out.
Maybe I should be learning a lot more from everything I watch.
I suspect you are learning and, but most of it's subconscious, but yeah, I
like to always look at things with a lens of curiosity.
I think Adam, on that note, you have passed the chatterbox section.
I now have one last question that we ask everybody who comes into the studio.
And that is, if we gave you 12 months off, you were unencumbered, you could
do anything you liked, what would you do?
And you can come back to your job afterwards.
Do you have the power to do that, Sally?
Cause if you did, I'd be very, very happy.
I'm sure I can make a phone call.
That'd be wonderful.
If I had 12 months and, and at some stage, hopefully you do when you retire,
you sort of give yourself that 12 months.
The first thing I do is want to spend time with the people I care about.
So I try to make sure I build in time for friends, the family,
and make sure I built that in.
There's a whole bunch of things on my bucket list places I haven't been to.
Turkey or Argentina or Jordan or Botswana.
You know, there's, there's places that I really want to get to and have a
look at and understand the culture and spend some time there.
Work on my golf game, that is a never ending, it's a shockingly frustrating
sport, so I want to work at a horrible sport.
You can never get, you never get complacent for a second.
Then probably my cricket game as well, mainly my golf game.
And finally, and I touched on a bit before, but I want to learn.
So I'm going to choose topics that really interest me and go hard after those.
And, you know, when I was growing up, I probably wanted to be an
astronomer at one point, be that a professional cricketer.
So I'm going to look at space and I'm teaching myself about then going back
into Einstein's theory and a whole range of things, you know, space travel,
where space technology going to go.
That fascinates me and touched on before, you know, the field of
AI and quantum computing and how that might come together to solve some of
the world's most important problems.
So learning would be that last piece.
And I think looking at that combination, I reckon I'd be pretty fulfilled.
So on the space travel front, where do you think as a globe we're headed with that?
It's going to be fascinating.
It's probably two levels to that one.
I do think we'll get to Mars.
I'd love to see, you know, a person on the moon again.
It's extraordinary to me.
Very early on in my lifetime, we put a person on the moon and here we are.
50 odd years later, we still haven't, we haven't tackled that again.
55 years later, I think that's extraordinary to me.
So I think getting to the moon, but getting to Mars, I think is something
that's fascinating and learning about space.
But I think there's another paradigm out there.
I think there is a different way we will learn.
We have to learn to travel beyond our solar system at some point and, you
know, walk mechanics and a whole range of things.
And that's the thing I'm fascinated in is in a hundred years time, we have to
be thinking about beyond our own world.
Hopefully we save our world from an environmental point of view, but we
have to be thinking how we travel further.
And so there, there are a couple of things I'm watching Mars and I'm
watching broader outside solar system travel over time.
That is kind of mind boggling, but I take your point.
Adam, I've loved hearing about the importance of perception by other people.
I love how you have recovered from failure more than once and how the
way you have bounced back.
I love your interest in artificial intelligence and what you're doing at
Deloitte to enable people to use chat GPT and the like, your interest in
space travel is great.
And thank you so much for not having to doodle while you've been
talking to me this morning.
And thank you so much again for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the boss.
Oh, it's been a lot of fun.
Thank you very much, Sally.
And that has concluded our summer series.
We hope you enjoyed our extended chats.
If you did enjoy them, please let us know on Apple or Spotify, and we'll be
sure to do them again in the future.
Next week, we'll be back to our normal 15 minutes with the boss podcast.
I'm so pleased that our first guest is Matt Common, the chief executive
of Cromwell Bank of Australia.
I'm sure it'll be a really great discussion and we're so looking
forward to bringing it to you.
This podcast was hosted by me, Sally Patton, produced and edited by LAPFAN.
Our theme is by Alex Gao and our executive producer is Fiona Buffini.
The Australian Financial Review.