In those days when we were operating the fish shop out in Bankstown, everyone ate fish
on a Friday and it was the busiest day of the week, but in order to actually be ready
for that you have to get up early in the morning, do all the preparation, make sure that you
have the quantity there, the quality there.
For me, my job in the morning was to peel three or four bags or sacks of potatoes and
then chip them as well.
I used to really hate Fridays.
Hi, I'm Sally Patton, editor of BOSS from the Australian Financial Review and welcome
to 15 Minutes with the BOSS, a podcast about success and failure and everything in between
and along the way we're aiming to get some great advice from our leaders.
My guest today is Paul Zouradis, the executive chairman of Ausbil Investment Management.
Hi Paul, lovely to meet you and thank you so much for coming in.
Very happy to be here.
Paul, you're the executive chairman and chief investment officer of Ausbil Investment Management,
which is an asset manager.
You manage nearly $18 billion in Australian and global equities on behalf of your investors
and you have a team of 70 people, I'm told of whom 33 work on the investment side.
That's a lot of bench strength you've got going on the investment side.
Yeah, look, it's really grown over the years, you know, managing a large amount of money.
We need to have very good support staff and also, you know, back office staff to run your
But we do have a 33 investment professionals working within the organisation.
But behind them, there's always a team behind those individuals which are contributing to
the outcome of those particular portfolios.
Well, thank you so much for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the BOSS.
We only have, as I said, 15 minutes, the clock starts now.
Paul, what time do you get up in the morning?
What happens when the alarm clock goes off?
If indeed it does go off?
Yeah, it does go off, but I tend to wake before the alarm clock, just in case I do sleep in.
My day starts at 4.30 in the morning, most mornings, then obviously look to see what's
happening in international markets and go downstairs, have my first cup of coffee and
then catch up again on international markets.
How long would you spend first on looking at international markets?
Normally about the first half hour.
So by the time I get up, I always read my phones in the morning or see what's happening
overnight, then hop in the shower and then head off to work.
What's your coffee order?
In the morning, I do when I come to work, I always have two cups of coffee at my favourite
coffee shop, which is a piccolo.
And you've already had one cup before you even leave?
So you've had three cups by about what time?
By about six o'clock.
I suppose you are up at 4.30.
But that's it for the day, no more coffees after that point.
So you're in the office by about six.
And what happens at six o'clock in the office?
Not much, because I'm normally the first in, but there's also other individuals which
are in early in the morning.
But that's my time of day where I prepare for the day.
We also have early morning meetings as well, and I like to be prepared for those meetings
before they do start.
So when you're preparing, are you thinking stocks, markets, stocks, markets, or are
you thinking more about management stuff with your team?
It is stock markets and markets.
So we look at bigger picture first, and then we obviously look at the impact.
And we also come with a set of conclusions, you know, leading up to what we think is likely
over the coming 12-month period.
And what we do every day is effectively either look for confirmation or challenges to that
view, because that will impact our investment strategy and our positioning within our portfolios.
So on a normal day, are you a breakfast person?
I tend to wait until lunch.
I do survive on a couple of bits, a couple of coffees and a piece of fruit during the
course of the morning.
But no, normally lunchtime is my first meal.
That's pretty good going, given that you've been up since 4.30.
OK, let's move to the next question then.
Tell me about a pivotal moment in your career that shaped you as a leader or changed the
trajectory of what you were doing.
My background is being Greek.
We're from Bankstown in Yaguna.
So my parents were always in businesses.
And being the eldest son, I was always there to help.
So I spent a lot of time with my father in running those businesses, which was always
It was pretty tough times in those times.
What businesses did you have?
Seafood, as in it was a fishmonger and owned a number of stores over the years or a number
of locations over the years.
I was one of five children.
My mother immigrated here in 1950, in the early 50s.
She couldn't speak English at that time, my father reminds me of.
So it was an interesting conversation, even though my father was Greek in background.
Greek wasn't the first language.
But mum was always a hard worker.
So why am I saying all this?
Because I mean, I spent a lot of time with my parents and my father really shaped me
in a lot of different ways.
In the sense of being proud of what you do, understanding businesses, working hard.
If you're going to do something, always do it a little bit better than someone else.
Oh, is that something that you take with you to always do something better than someone
Yeah, absolutely.
Because that's the competitive edge you need to have.
And also, if you're running businesses, there's always competition.
I think the lessons that my dad taught me, particularly when running the business, was
that you also need to plan well and truly ahead.
In those days when we were operating the fish shop out in Bankstown, everyone ate fish
And it was the busiest day of the week.
But in order to actually be ready for that, you have to get up early in the morning, do
all the preparation, make sure that you have the quantity there, the quality there.
For me, my job in the morning was to peel three or four bags or sacks of potatoes, right?
On a Friday morning?
On a Friday morning before school.
And then chip them as well.
I used to really hate Fridays in the sense of getting up so early, but then I got used
Three or four in the morning.
So working hard and working smarter is something that was part of it, and that was our culture.
So did you or your father go to other fish shops, say fish and chip shops, down the road
in the next suburb and have a look and say, look what they're doing and think, OK, we've
got to do this better?
I mean, my father, it was a bit of a community, really, in the sense of other stores around
So yes, we did do that, or my father did that.
But also, in the morning, they also go into the markets and buying the produce or growing
the fresh fish in the morning at the markets.
And on occasion, I went there with my father as well, which was actually quite fascinating.
And that's probably how I got involved in markets, understanding how markets are priced
and how they're cleared, which was interesting.
So from what age would you have started going to the fish markets?
I think it would have been, you know, six or seven.
Yeah, that young.
So at the age of six, you were getting up at like three o'clock in the morning?
I've always been an early morning person.
Because of that, yeah.
So my next question is, what is the best piece of career advice you've ever been given?
When I first started, particularly in investments, I worked with a number of different people.
And there was always areas that I didn't know and also wanted to inquire about.
So the best bit of advice was, if you're unsure, just ask questions.
And that just stayed with me every time.
I mean, it was unsure, I used to always sit down with a more experienced individual, try
to nudge it out and also ask questions about, you know, why is this so?
Can you please explain the reason for that?
And certainly, I react the same way.
When people come to you and say, can you please explain to me or sit down and have a conversation
or ask questions, you really are open to answering those questions and also departing, you know,
with that knowledge and understanding.
So that's been one of the things I do still do.
And I think that was a very important lesson.
So you still ask lots of questions?
I do in the mornings and also during the course of the day.
And that's part of the reason why I'm up early in the morning.
I like to see what's happening internationally.
I like to ask questions of my team.
And not always, but I also prefer to know the answers before I ask the question.
And I think that's important because if it's not answered, I can then ask other questions
of my team to actually take the road that I should be taking to answer and also understand
what's happened overnight.
On that note, this first section has now concluded.
We're going to take a short break and we come back.
We will open the chatterbox.
Welcome back to 15 Minutes with the Boss.
I am here with Paul Ziradas, the executive chairman of Ausbil Investment Management.
Paul, this is our section called the chatterbox.
Now, Paul, in front of you is our chatterbox, a very high tech cardboard box filled with random questions.
Please pick out your first question.
How do you create a positive culture within your company, given that you've got markets
going up and down like yo-yos all the time?
That is a really good question.
No, it's not always that.
I think it's more about the reward and also delivering a good outcome for our clients.
And I say that's first.
That's what we should do.
And all the rest will actually follow thereafter.
We are also a group that does celebrate events and wins.
And that's something which I think is important.
If we have a very successful year or we win a new mandate, you know, that's important.
So what will you do if you win a new mandate or have a successful year?
Do you all go and have a really big lunch or dinner?
We have a number of lunches and dinners over the course of the year.
So they tend to be each quarter.
We have a bowling competition once a year, which is interesting.
A what competition?
A bowling competition.
And then followed up by dinner thereafter.
Once a quarter, we have quarterly awards as well for people that which are outstanding
during the course of that quarter, which which we do highlight.
So we are ones that do celebrate events and I think that's important.
When you say you went bowling, did you go lawn bowling or ten pin bowling?
Is that one of the team favourite sports?
Yeah, it is actually a lot of fun.
So what we do do is have teams which are from varying different areas within the organisation.
It's not just the investment team or the support team or the marketing team.
We have teams which are sourced from each one of those varying functions within the
And we have competition throughout the year and also during bowling as well.
OK, next question.
Do you have hobbies?
I love gardening.
That's my escape.
I love growing my own vegetables.
I think that's and I love the challenge of growing a lot of vegetables.
So what do you grow?
In summer, I grow all the summer fruit.
So if you think about capsicums, tomatoes, lettuce, shallots, zucchinis, beans, and I
like growing a lot of vegetables so I can actually hand it out to the to the family.
But when you manage money, there's a lot of pressures there.
And if you're really passionate about what you do, you just can't leave your portfolio
So is that how you shut your mind down from markets?
Yeah, very much so.
I mean, that's my escape.
During the weekend, I'm up very early.
Five o'clock or four thirty?
No, about four thirty, five o'clock.
And it's easier in summer because the day breaks a bit earlier.
And you get two or three hours in the morning before anyone else is up.
So you can actually do your stuff in the garden.
And I do must admit, I do like planting the seed and seeing the vegetables grow and then
enjoying the fruits of it.
And did your love of gardening stem from your parents having a veggie garden when you grew
I mean, I was looking after the veggie patch at home because dad was working at the shop.
So I started very early age growing vegetables, funny enough.
So that was in Bankstown.
Where's your veggie patch now?
We live in Mossman.
And you must have a pretty big garden, do you?
Pretty big vegetable garden.
Part of the attraction of buying the house, when I looked at it, I said I must buy it
after I saw the garden because there was a hidden garden area where I said this is going
to be perfect for my vegetables, which is above the double garage, but it was all partitioned
off so you couldn't see it from the street.
And I think if I said, well, I'm going to grow vegetables there, I'm not going to upset
the neighbours as well.
There's not too many people actually grow vegetables in the front of their garden, front
of their house in Mossman.
Is anyone else in your family allowed to go anywhere near the vegetable garden?
Or is it just you?
Only my grandson.
He gets special treatment?
I mean, that's part of his excitement, particularly in summer where he says, come on, we go downstairs
and we pick the vegetables.
And he comes back with two big baskets and saying, look mum, and look at, yeah, yeah,
my wife, and proudly show off the fruits of the vegetables.
I love that you've got a veggie patch and you're bringing a bit of Bankstown to Mossman.
I am bringing a bit of Bankstown back to Mossman, but as I said, I think there's nothing better
than growing your own fruit and vegetables.
And then also the taste, I mean, the quality and the taste is something a bit different.
I couldn't agree more.
What's your pet hate in the office?
We have meetings and I like people to be punctual.
So my pet hate is people not turning up on time or prepared.
So do you start them on the dot of say 8am, if it's an 8am meeting, regardless of who
And in fact, it is eight o'clock most mornings that we have our first morning meeting.
I do expect people to be there ready and we start right on the dot.
And if I happen to turn up at five past eight, what would happen?
What would you say to me?
I normally say good afternoon and make a point, but I don't say it all that often.
I think people are aware and that's the way that we operate within Osbell.
So do you sit around the room and think, I'm paying all these people this amount of dollars.
If we start the meeting five or 10 minutes late, it's going to cost me like X hundreds
of thousands of dollars or X thousands of dollars in lost time.
Look, I think we're all we're all very busy.
And I think that meetings need to be efficient and on time.
And I don't believe having meetings longer than we should have.
But the start point is always the start time.
I think that's important.
So we go through our program and sometimes we have a lot to say, a lot to discuss.
Other times we don't.
So I don't think about it in that in that aspect.
It's all about sharing the information and updating each other about the events of overnight
and also the events of the prior day.
So how long is too long for a meeting?
Again, that depends.
The morning meeting about 45 minutes is long enough.
Sometimes it goes to an hour.
But we also on other days have have strategy meetings, which do tend to go for two hours.
And I tend to have about three of those a month.
I don't believe meetings should go longer than two hours and that that is a long time
So it does depend.
And do you try and limit the number of meetings that you have?
Again, I find that meetings in the morning is the best time to have the meetings.
If there needs to be other meetings during the course of the day, you know, they are
you know, locked in place.
But do you have many during the day?
They tend to be more external meetings that people coming in to see us rather than me
instigating or someone else within the organisation starting to instigate those meetings.
But all the internal meetings tend to start early in the morning.
All external tend to be during the course of the day.
OK, so nothing more than about two hours.
Do you have really short meetings with staff, say like a 15 minute meeting?
And again, it may not necessarily be one of our regular or scheduled meetings.
It can be an impromptu meeting or it can be just to update or to highlight something
which was interesting, which should be communicated at that very point in time.
You have passed with flying colours the chatterbox section.
I now have one more question for you, Paul.
And that is in the unlikely case that you took a year off clearly since you seem to
love your business.
But if you did take a year off, you were unencumbered, you could do anything you liked.
What would you do?
Look, I do like travelling and I think that, again, from my heritage, I really enjoy going
I do go back most years, but I love to have an extended period there.
Where is your family from in Greece?
From Rhodes is my mother.
My father's side was from Limnos.
My wife's side is from Keflonia and also Athens.
So we've got a number of different locations that we do go back to on a yearly basis.
But there's a lot in between.
So I love to discover the whole of Greece.
It would be something that I would love to do, but also travel other parts of Europe.
I think travelling around Europe would be fantastic.
And then also exploring the kitchens of each one of those countries that we go to.
That's also part of what we do enjoy about travelling and enjoying the foods or the tastes
of those kitchens in each one of those countries.
So you're quite a foodie.
My wife is very much the same as well.
So at home, do you eat Greek food all the time?
As often as we can.
Not all the time.
So if you don't have feta for three days, what happens?
I just eat more olives.
That's a great answer, yeah.
On that note, Paul, our time's up.
Thanks so much for chatting to us today.
I love the way that you relax in your veggie garden because it shows us that everyone has
something different that really calms them down.
I love the way that you learn to love markets and trading as a really young boy and you
have clearly taken that with you and still hold it near and dear.
You clearly don't like people being late.
I will take that on board.
And I hope that you have a really big supply of olives in the fridge for those days when
you've run out of feta.
On that note, Paul, thank you so much for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the boss.
And likewise, thank you very much.
And thank you to everyone for listening.
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The Australian Financial Review.