I was really worried when I was young that I didn't know what I wanted to do.
I did a music degree, I went to India and did some teaching for a while, I came back,
I worked in a school.
The messaging I was always getting was that I was kind of like behind the eight ball.
And I actually look back and I am so glad now that I didn't know what I wanted to do.
Hi, I'm Sally Patton, editor of BOSS from the Australian Financial Review.
And welcome to 15 minutes with the BOSS, a podcast about success and failure and everything
And along the way, we're hoping to get some great advice from our leaders.
My guest today is Holly Masters, the chief executive of the McGraw Foundation.
Hi Holly, how are you?
Hi Sally, so good to be with you.
Thank you so much for coming in.
Now, Holly, as I said, you're the CEO of the McGraw Foundation.
The McGraw Foundation was founded in 2005 by Australian cricketing great Glenn McGraw
and has supported over 150,000 people and their families through cancer.
Last year, you raised just over $46 million.
And in January this year, at the pink test at the cricket, you announced that you are
extending care to beyond breast cancer to include people who have other forms of cancer.
And I must say that I was reading the other day that one in two Australians can expect
to contract cancer in their lifetime.
So that's a lot of help that you can provide.
It's a big goal for us.
Our initial target was to get to 250 McGraw breast care nurses, and we did that last November.
And now we're at the bottom of a very big mountain that we need to climb.
But we do it one step at a time.
And knowing that one in two will be affected by cancer, it means that there's an enormous
amount of work for us.
It's taken us 20 years to get to 250 breast care nurses.
We don't want it to take another 20 years for us to get to the number of McGraw cancer
care nurses that we're going to need.
So what is the pink test?
The pink test happens every year.
It is also known as the New Year's test and existed long before it was the pink test.
And it is the cricketing test that happens at the SCG at the very start of January every
Now, the January after Jane died, the cricketing community really rallied around.
And there was this idea that came up with Cricket Australia and the SCG that they wanted
to have this moment at the New Year's test.
Day three was designated Jane McGraw Day.
From that year, it has grown enormously.
And Jane McGraw died of breast cancer.
And in fact, she had a McGraw, well, she had a nurse at that point.
And she realized the difference that having a breast care nurse made.
So when the foundation was set up, she and Glenn defined that it would be focused on
providing breast care nurses and doing the professional development to support them.
What an amazing legacy.
And I'm sure we'll hear a bit more about that as we chat.
On that note, our 15 minutes will start now.
We haven't got much time.
My first question is your morning routine.
What time do you get up?
I normally get up somewhere between 5, 5.30.
I like to exercise in the morning.
I've always been a morning person.
I've still got a lot of family in the UK.
So quite often, I'll go for a 10k walk and I'll just do a walk and talk.
Alternatively, I might do a Pilates class or go to the gym.
After I've done that, whether I'm working at home, which I normally do two days a week,
three days in the office, I'm normally in the office by about 7.30 or so.
At nine o'clock, we have our team morning huddle.
So the entire exec team meets for 15 minutes.
So the seven of us are all together online and we have a routine.
So what do you discuss in those 15 minutes at the beginning of the day?
Each of us have three things.
You have to express either a moment of gratitude or learning from the last 24 hours.
You have to describe what's your big rock today.
So what's the big thing that you're going to do today that's going to shift the strategy
of the organization?
And the third is what help do you need from the group?
And those three things every single day make sure that we stay on track from a strategic
point of view, but we also address any issues that we've got in that moment and move things
So you say that you'll have to express something that you're grateful for.
Do you all express something different every day?
And is that very hard to do?
Well, that's why actually it's where we introduce the moment of learning.
Because if you're doing it every single day, it can feel a bit clunky and it needs to feel
And of course, we were really diverse exec team.
So somebody might be joyous about Liverpool winning the soccer last night, but others
might talk about a conversation they've had with a colleague or a peer, which has been
really vulnerable and revelatory.
And so it can be incredibly meaningful through to something that's really quite light.
My next question is, what is a pivotal moment in your career that you would point to, say
a project that you've undertaken or a promotion that you have been given that changed the
trajectory of what you were doing?
Probably the moment that has really offered me like just the most enormous fundamental
change in direction, but also impact was the decision to join the McGraw Foundation.
I was first approached about this role when I was finishing up a three year stint in Hong
Kong, running a very big prestige beauty brand across 14 countries, traveling 220 nights
a year, managing a massive business with thousands of employees.
And I was trying to make a decision, do I want to do one more big corporate gig before
I moved into a full purpose?
And this job came along.
And as a consequence, I went from running a billion dollar organization, thousands of
people to a $15 million turnover, not for profit in Australia at that point with about
40 people and about 110 nurses.
Big shift, but the opportunity to be able to drive systemic change in the health system
and genuinely be able to have impact, it was an extraordinary opportunity.
And I'm exceptionally grateful.
Had you lived in Australia before?
So I moved to Australia in 2005.
My husband's Australian.
We met in London, classic story, got married in London and then moved here in 2005.
But in 2014, we both moved to Hong Kong with our roles.
We were both in APAC roles.
Funnily enough, when I took the job in Hong Kong, which was an internal move within the
the Estee Lauder companies where I was working prior, when I took that job, I was actually
called about the McGraw Foundation CEO role at that point.
But that was the previous CEO recruitment that they were doing.
And at the time I said, I would love that this might be in my future, but I don't feel
like I have enough skills yet to be able to give it my all.
So what is the gap in experience that you thought you needed?
I think I felt I hadn't had enough diversity in terms of cultural experience, different
business models from different markets.
I'd operated businesses and run businesses across Australia and New Zealand.
But the opportunity to do that and be exposed to global strategy, globally working with
very senior people in the business, I was reporting into one of the Lauder family.
And I think it was almost also just being in the chair for a bit longer.
You know, I was still I felt relatively young.
I'd come into that role a little bit later because I'd also had such diversity in my
career earlier on.
So I think it was a bit of general experience, but also exposure to lots of different ways
My next question is, what is the best piece of career advice you've ever been given?
Gosh, I've been given such beautiful nuggets.
But I think probably the one that has been really resonant with me for such a long time
is to open every door and have every conversation, because you never know where it will lead.
And that has been very valuable.
I think every single role that I have accepted has come about as a result of somebody I've
had a conversation with.
A headhunter or a friend or who has that?
What type of person has that person been?
The example behind this role was that a girlfriend of mine who I had worked with in retail had
been approached by the headhunter for the CEO role of the McGraw Foundation.
She knew it wasn't for her.
She had other plans.
She called me and she said, I think you would be perfect.
Would you mind if I put your name forward?
I said, I would be delighted.
I quite often mentor younger women leaders.
And I always say to them, open every door and have every conversation, because you don't
know what you don't know.
And you don't know who knows who.
And actually, it's a very small place.
And I don't mean Australia.
I mean the world.
In my old industry, in the beauty retail, everyone knows everybody else.
And so building out that network and really understanding where you might fit and where
your skills might be best placed is a really smart thing to do.
On that note, Holly, don't go away.
We're going to take a short break, but we're going to come back and open our delightful
Welcome back to 15 Minutes with the Boss.
I'm here with Holly Masters, the chief executive of the McGraw Foundation.
I'm slightly worried about this.
Let's start laughing about this.
This is a beautiful chatterbox, inside which are about 15 questions.
I'm going to ask you to have a bit of a shuffle around, pick them out one by one.
And we'll play the chatterbox game.
What's the most underrated skill that has helped you in your career?
I think I have a very long-term view and a bit of blind faith.
One of the things that's helped me to be really resilient in some really challenging
environments, and working with some tough people in the past, is that I'm not just
about what needs to be done today.
I have a very long-term view about where I think an organization might need to go.
So when you came into the McGraw Foundation, did you come in with a very long-term view
of where you thought the foundation needed to go?
One of the most exciting things when I was interviewing my chair, John Condie and Glenn,
was they said, we've got two jobs for you.
The first is we're growing double digit, but the need for nurses is growing faster than
So we need you to accelerate the business.
For me, that's a two, three year job.
The second piece was the super interesting part.
What they said is, we want you to help us define what the foundation should stand for
So how did you go about setting that 10 year vision?
Did you have that immediately, or did you have to work at that?
And if so, how did you work at that?
So first step was to make sure that we got that first sort of two to three year growth
strategy in place, nice audit of the business.
During that audit, I was really looking at what's unique to us, what might help take
us forward and really make sure that in the future, the McGraw Foundation is not just
known because of Glenn and his family and Jane, but is known because of what it does.
And what I realised was that our McGraw model of care was totally unique and could be translated
into multiple different ways.
So we started a process where we worked with an external provider who helped interview
a whole range of people about which directions we could go into.
And in the end, what we realised was about 80 to 90% of what our nurses do is entirely
transferable to other tumour streams.
And in fact, potentially to other chronic diseases.
We started this conversation six, six and a half years ago.
But the reality is the insight is actually a retail insight because it goes back to a
white label proposition.
Oh, explain that.
A white label proposition in retail is where you might be a developer of a product, a manufacturer
of a product, and you might also do wholesale manufacturing for another brand.
So effectively, you invest in the R&D, you're able to do the manufacturing, but somebody
else's label goes on it.
So I was looking at our nurses in the first instance saying, you know what, actually,
we could run nursing services for other organisations, or we could do their professional development.
And we could do it in a way which they're raising money for, they own it.
It's their brand, it's their community.
But we could do it effectively and efficiently because we've got all the resources already.
And that was the first kind of insight as to could we make it work in that way?
That is a very interesting way that you've been able to transfer skills from retail to
the McGraw Foundation, which on the outset look completely different organisations.
And you know what, they're actually very similar because in a prestige luxury brand, retail
brand, you are building customer relationships.
You are running events and engagement, and you are building a reputation and a brand.
And actually, that's exactly what we do.
Effectively our nurses, we are training and developing them to build out those relationships
and make sure they're very personalised, ongoing, supportive relationships.
We prepare all their professional development to make sure that they're fit to be able
We run lots of events and activities, Pink Test is a perfect example, and building the
brand and making sure that it is trusted.
That is the way to make sure that people will give us money.
You wouldn't get it on the outside necessarily, but on the inside, very similar.
No, it's amazing.
Okay, Holly, have another fish.
What's your favourite podcast or streaming show and why?
To be honest, I don't actually listen to a lot of podcasts.
Because I love to listen to music.
So I often exercise outside.
For me, being in nature is really calming.
So I love to walk and listen to music.
It's something that's really, if I'm not talking to family back home.
And what type of music?
Oh, it's really mixed.
I was doing a deep dive into Jamiroquai this weekend, but I'm also a massive fan of Bach,
love, honestly, a whole range of things.
It kind of depends on my mood, but also what pace I want to walk or run.
So I pick things that make sense for my mood, et cetera.
But there has been one book that for me has been really impactful in the last few years,
and that's James Clear's Atomic Habits, which when you're thinking about driving really
systemic change, but you need to break it down into little steps every single day and
help people understand their role.
What they are doing every single day is contributing towards that bigger picture.
There's nothing better than what he talks about in Atomic Habits.
Plus it also comes out of crisis and real challenge.
And I think that's a great message also in our world.
And I also love that book.
Okay, heaven on the fish.
If you could give a TED talk today on a topic that was not related to business, what would
I think I would like to give a TED talk about not feeling like you have to understand what
you're going to do from a career in your teens or even in your 20s.
I was really worried when I was young that I didn't know what I wanted to do.
I did a music degree.
I went to India and did some teaching for a while.
I worked in a school.
I then worked in agency land.
I was trying to work out what I wanted to do.
And the messaging I was always getting was I was kind of like behind the eight ball.
Lots of people were really clear about their vocations and I actually look back and I am
so glad now that I didn't know what I wanted to do because as a consequence, I've had
a really broad base.
I'm a generalist.
I'm not a specialist.
I completely know where my gaps are.
But I think so many of us at an early stage are just kind of frozen by this sense of I
should know and why don't I know?
So what would you say to someone in their early 20s or even early 30s who just still
does not know what they want to do?
First thing I say is it doesn't matter.
A career can change shape at any time.
You know that you can make a decision tomorrow and go in a completely different direction.
The first is don't feel like you need to rush into something.
I think lots of people accept roles because they feel like they should take a job and
there is real value in exploring different roles.
But it comes back to that open every door have every conversation because actually there's
so much value in talking to other people.
I quite often talk to women leaders about when you know when they're looking for the
next role, basically having a coffee with lots of different people and saying to them,
how do you view me?
What do you think is one of the greatest skills or values that I could bring to an organization?
Because it's extraordinary how people will reflect that back to you.
They love to be asked, first of all, because you're valuing their opinion, but it gives
you a kaleidoscope of the way different people view you.
And I think that really helps to kind of recognize actually there is a whole range of different
paths that I could take, particularly when you talk to people about their careers.
I think at least diffusing that so you take the stress away from, oh, my goodness, I don't
know what I need to do.
See it as an exploration.
Trust that you'll find the path.
Don't worry about it and everything you're going to experience, you'll learn from.
Trust that you'll find the path.
On that note, that is the end of our chat a box section.
I'm now going to ask you one more question, which we ask all our guests.
And that is, if you weren't the chief executive of the McGrath Foundation, what would you
If I'm not talking about a holiday or a break, if I'm actually talking about my purpose,
a few years ago, I actually defined my own personal purpose, I think is really valuable
as a leader to do that.
And for me, my goal is to make sure I have an impact on people on a one to one and one
to many basis every single day.
So that gives me the immediate as well as the long term, which is very important.
So I think if I wasn't doing this role, one of the things that I do right now is coach
and mentor women leaders, particularly CEOs in full purpose organizations.
And that has both that immediate as well as that long term goal.
But I've also just recently taken a position as a chair on a beauty brand, an Australian
And I'm absolutely loving that too, going back to my old world and playing with product.
So for me, I think it's going to be portfolio.
This will be my last full time job.
Board roles mainly?
Yeah, I think probably a mixture of board and working with CEOs and coaching them.
I'm fascinated with the way people work and the decisions that they make and how they
feel that they can optimize their impact.
And if I can play a small role in asking the right questions, helping them unlock their
potential, that just has huge value to me.
Well, I wish you all the best in your next portfolio career.
Thank you so much.
I'm looking forward to it.
On that note, Holly, our 15 minutes is up.
Holly, thank you so much for coming in.
I really loved hearing about the fact that you think long term and thinking long term
and having big hairy goals does not frighten you.
I love your advice to open every door, have every conversation.
I love your advice also to not feel like you have to know where your career is going in
your 20s and even in your early 30s, relax, it will come up.
I love the fact that you've got your own private purpose, which will enable you to have the
best life after you leave your current job, if and when that might be.
So thank you once again so much for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the boss.
Thank you so much.
It's been so much fun.
And thank you to everyone for listening.
If you like the podcast and you want to hear more, consider sharing the podcast or writing
a review as it helps us to reach more people and follow us wherever you get your podcasts.
At The Financial Review, we investigate the big stories about markets, business and power.
For more, go to AFR.com and you can subscribe to The Financial Review, The Daily Habit of
Successful People at AFR.com slash subscribe.
This podcast was hosted by me, Sally Patton, produced by Lapfan and Martin Peralta.
Our theme is by Alex Gow and our executive producer is Fiona Bafini.
The Australian Financial Review.