A lot of people focus on their IQ and their EQ, but the third part is the HQ health question
and it was really quite enlightening.
We have a culture in Australia where we're very action-orientated, what are you doing,
what are we up to, what do we need to do next, what, what, what.
We love the what question, but I think the real goals come from just a simple line of
question of the why and the how.
Hi, I'm Sally Patton, editor of BOSS from the Australian Financial Review and welcome
to 15 Minutes with the BOSS, a podcast about success and failure and everything in between.
And along the way, we're hoping to get some great advice from our leaders.
My guest today is Damien Mew, the chief executive of AIA Australia.
Hi, Damien, how are you?
Hi, Sally, good to be here, thank you.
Thank you so much for coming into our extremely dark Melbourne studio, love it to see you
Damien, as I said, you're the chief executive of AIA Australia, which is a life insurer.
You are indeed the life insurer behind some of Australia's biggest superannuation funds,
including Australian Retirement Trust and HESTA, and you insure just over three million
Australians for death, illness and disability.
And I should also add that you are a health insurer as well.
So you have a pretty invested interest in the health of Australians.
Are we getting better as a nation?
Is our health getting better?
Well, great question, Sally.
Unfortunately, our health isn't getting better.
We're living longer, but unfortunately not in a healthy status.
So medicine and other things have helped us to prolong life.
But unfortunately, the health trends are not improving.
OK, let's try and get onto a brighter subject.
We don't have very much time.
15 minutes, the clock starts right now.
So Damien, my first question is about your morning routine.
What time do you get up?
The first thing I do is obviously brush my teeth and then get into exercise.
The exercise is followed by a quick, not a long meditator, but I like a quick meditation
and then walk the dog and off to the office.
So what's your exercise?
So my exercise is either running or gym work.
And how long do you meditate for?
No more than 15 minutes.
I've got what I call a fast mind.
So I like to call it go slow to go fast.
And so I slow myself purposefully so that I can be more intentional in regards to when
I know my speed is 100 miles an hour, that I'm going in the right direction.
And do you do the breakfast thing or not the breakfast thing?
No, I'm not a big breakfast person.
I actually get going better without eating in the morning.
And so my first meal is really usually around lunchtime and I have an evening meal as well.
Actually, I'd also like to ask about your sleep.
How does a health guru think about sleep?
So for me, I have extended my sleep.
And that was after a health check.
You know, a lot of people focus on their IQ and the EQ.
But the third part is the HQ health question.
And it was really quite enlightening to see that I was like a 95 out of 100.
So most of us think, great, we go to the gym, we train.
Oh, wow, we're healthy.
But my stress recovery was around 22 out of 100.
And my restorative sleep was around 15 because I just wasn't sleeping.
So while I was able to function and go in very well underneath, I was not too healthy at all.
So I needed to start focusing on getting those two things better.
Golly. And have you had a check since?
Do you know what your current score is?
Yeah, well, I'm an optimist.
So I thought to myself, wow, imagine if I can improve it even by 10 percent.
Imagine what more I could do in a day.
But I have been able to get it above above the 50.
But look, I'm not a great sleeper, but I do.
As I said, I've gone from making sure that I'm getting at least six hours on average now.
That's important for me to feel better and function better.
Interesting. I really like that.
OK, my next question is, tell me about a pivotal moment in your career
that it could be a project that you worked on or it could be a promotion that you were given
that changed the trajectory of what you were doing.
Yeah, it was actually the role before I became CEO.
So, you know, I was doing very well in the role that I had,
and I was working with my current CEO.
And there was succession plan talks about me maybe moving into that role.
And of course, you know, you start to think about it could be possible.
And yeah, OK, I think I'd love to do that.
And then the CEO was reporting to move to a role overseas.
And someone else was given the role from another part of the group from offshore
who was considered to be a very seasoned and very experienced CEO.
And I sort of was left in a bit of a limbo.
And I was like, well, what happened?
You know, we had these plans.
And it was the best thing that happened to me because it really got me to stop
and understand some of the feedback of maybe why people didn't think I was ready.
But most importantly, it was about my ability to choose how I showed up.
So with the disappointment, I could either throw my toes out of the cart and mope around,
or I could actually say, no, I'm going to learn from this
and I'm going to make myself better.
And I threw everything into giving 150% to the new CEO, making them a success,
continuing to do what I thought was a great job for the company I was working for
and the privilege that I had to be in that company.
And actually, I moved into the role two years later.
Oh, so keep on being proactive and keep finding ways to give value to the company.
Actually, what was the feedback they gave you?
The role I was having was very much as the general manager
of distribution and marketing product, et cetera,
was really a high intensity sort of growth role.
And so I was demonstrating that.
But of course, that's only one part.
The other part of being a CEO is, you know,
can you demonstrate the safe pair of hands that is needed?
Can you develop other great talent?
Can you show prudence?
Can you make the tough decisions?
And of course, I may not have had that opportunity to demonstrate that yet,
but in that time, I was able to then look for opportunities
to be able to demonstrate and learn that as well.
And what is the best piece of career advice you've ever been given?
Well, the best career advice I was given was actually
always be great at the job you're doing.
So it's great to think about the future and jobs you'd like to do,
but don't lose sight and forget that until that arises
and that opportunity or that interview right now,
you've got a job that you're doing and never stop giving that your best
because that's an interview you do every day.
Is that something that you think you got from your parents or from school
or where do you think that came from?
You know, I'm a first generation born and bred Australian,
but my grandmother was my hero and she brought us out here from Sri Lanka
in her mid forties and really set the tone around the importance of
working as a team for the betterment of all.
And she did that for our family and look at me now.
So do you think your grandmother also had that attitude of whatever you do,
Absolutely. I saw her do that.
I mean, she left a fairly affluent lifestyle in Sri Lanka
and then worked in a factory in Melbourne for the next 20 something years,
getting up very early in the morning and catching a train in the dark in the cold
and never asked for anything.
It was always done through actions, not words,
and to witness that and be part of that.
And then also, you know, the love and care I had from my parents
and watching them work two or three jobs
and, you know, sharing the load in the same household
to really give our family a better opportunity to the future
in this blessed country called Australia of ours,
really set me up.
You know, I just reflect on it.
And at the time, you know, as all kids, you sort of
have a bit of a complaint and a whinge,
but they were the best life lessons ever, Sally.
I love that. Okay.
On that note, Damien, stay where you are.
We are going to take a short break, but when we come back,
we're going to open the famous chatterbox.
So I'll see you soon.
Welcome back to 50 Minutes with the Boss.
I am here with Damien New, the Chief Executive of AIA Australia.
Now, Damien, this is our section called the Chatterbox.
I here have this lovely brown box in front of me rather than you.
So unfortunately, you're going to have to trust me
to pick out questions on your behalf and not cheat.
I trust you, Sally.
I'll try my best. Okay, here we go.
How do you make tough decisions and what are the toughest types of decisions?
So for me, making decisions has become sort of a bit of a framework
that happens unconsciously, and it's just a three-point check-in
that I have with myself on the hard decisions.
One, am I operating from my principles and values?
That's non-negotiable.
Second, have I given my best?
And third, is it about me or the greater good?
And if I can't check all three of those,
then I know the decision may require some more thinking.
But the hardest decisions are always the ones on people.
So can I ask, when it comes to a people decision,
say you've got to get rid of somebody,
how do those three principles play into that?
Can you talk me through that or give me an example?
Yeah, absolutely.
So the first thing is, in terms of my principles,
have I supported this individual to be successful in their role?
Have I done everything that I can to give them clarity of task,
responsibility, empowered them appropriately, et cetera?
In terms of giving my best, have I supported them?
Have I identified areas where the environment
could have been better and more conducive?
Have I done those things?
And then, actually, is this about me
or the greater good is really about,
is this because this is more challenging and hard work for me,
rather than the best interest of the company?
Most of the instances, it's actually about fit.
It's not about the individual.
It may be that they're in a role that isn't right for their capabilities
or where their energy or their happiness comes from.
And usually, it's when you work through the conversations,
they tend to come to that same conclusion.
And it's then, you know, actually, yeah,
I think I'd be better doing something else.
OK, I really like that.
OK, I'm going to have another forage.
Oh, this is a new one.
Name a skill or something that you have learned
since becoming CEO that helps you to lead better.
I think one of the things I learned was, you know,
around not making assumptions is declare your intent.
Let people know where you're coming from,
rather than just deliver a message, you know,
give them a little bit more substance behind it,
why you might be giving them the information or the feedback
and so that they can understand.
Because otherwise, you know, they're missing,
they're trying to piece together lots of parts of the story themselves.
Because ultimately, communication is about making sure
we get the right exchange and the right messages.
And so let's not assume we've done that.
So, for example, you know, if I've asked someone something
and they sort of look at me and they go, yeah, OK, that sounds good.
I go, oh, just confirming, you know, the reason I'm asking this
is because this is really important to a commitment we've made with the board.
And so, you know, we need to make sure that we've delivered on it
and are you clear what I'm asking for and what the outcome is here?
And just getting the check back, just simple things, right?
Rather than letting them go away.
And then two weeks later, we've got a board deliverable
and we haven't quite got there.
And then we're having a different conversation.
So can you give me an example, a concrete example of that?
Let's just say that we've got a request or a board agenda item
that we need to present on.
And it's like, OK, so we've got a 20 minute agenda item with the board.
We need to submit papers five days before.
And I say, great, X, can you please prepare this report?
We need to get this to the board.
They go, yep, great.
Now, we've done that in about 30 seconds.
And I'm not going to see X for two weeks later, just before, you know,
48 hours before it gets submitted.
And they put two weeks of work into something.
They come to me and say, hey, here's the report.
And I go, this is not what we wanted.
What a waste of time and effort if we haven't really been clear
with each other or what we need to get out of that.
As opposed to just at the start saying, right, we need to get this to the board.
Because from the board's perspective, this is really important for them
to be able to ensure that, you know, that they've delivered on their governance
and that they've understood the strategy.
So when we ask for sign off in the future, they're good.
So with the report, I think we need to cover X and Y.
What do you think?
Now we've got a far more greater chance of having success
when we get that deliverable done.
I guess there's a fine line, though, that between telling somebody what to do
and being a little bit patronising, there's a balance there, right?
Yeah, no, it's not about perfection at all.
We're both a team and we're on the same side trying to get the same outcome.
So that's why I said my question was, I think we should do X and Y.
What do you think?
And giving them the opportunity.
So it's really important.
I'm not just going, let's get X and Y done.
Because actually I might be missing out on some really important insight or thought.
And, you know, we want to encourage that.
So that's why it's like an open question of here's what I was thinking.
What are you thinking?
Let's co-create here together and let's get the best outcome.
Okay, interesting.
Okay, I'm going to have another question.
What do you do when you switch off, if indeed you do switch off from your job?
I exercise or I switch off by doing some very quick mindfulness meditation or walk in the park.
Reflection has become a very important tool for me.
I discovered it going on a date with myself, which is where just having that time to just sort of
reflect on what are the things that have been bothering me during the week.
And usually it's meetings or interactions that haven't played out how I would have hoped,
or I haven't shown up how I'd hoped.
Then I process it and get on with it.
So you have a date with yourself once a week?
Actually, I use it as a bit of a story because it was something that did happen to me on the
way home from a work event that didn't happen.
And rather than going home, I stopped at a local Thai restaurant.
It all came to $20 for a pad Thai and a glass of red wine.
So you can probably figure out how long ago it was.
And there was another couple, I think, on the date and I was feeling very self-conscious,
like, oh my gosh, they're all looking at me, look at me.
And I was like pretending to like someone was going to come and meet me.
But it was amazing, Sally.
Once I just relaxed in, I just realized I was carrying a lot of things around and they came
into my mind and my mindfulness and I was able to process and let them go.
And I felt really great and I actually tasted food for the first time.
And so, you know, I call it going on a date with yourself and I encourage people to,
you know, whether it's going for a walk, whether it's going and getting a coffee,
rather than coming back with the coffee straight away to the desk, sit down for a
couple of minutes and just see what happens.
Look, I'll be really open.
The first 10 minutes, I don't know where my head's going.
I'm, I'm, I find it hard to get into the moment, but then if you practice it enough
and just let yourself relax and don't try to force anything, probably around 10 minutes in,
my mind finally lets me process the things it needs to.
And I can do that very quickly then.
Wow. Stuff just comes up.
I'm off to the airport tonight.
I might have a date at the airport with myself.
Let me know how it goes.
I will. That's great.
Okay. So Damien, on that note, thank you so much.
You have passed with flying colors, the chatterbox section.
I now have one final question for you, which we ask all our guests.
And that is, if you weren't the CEO of AIA Australia, what would you be doing?
Well, what I would love to be doing is playing AFL for someone, but I wouldn't,
I don't think I'd quite make it.
So I think I'll have to find something else.
But my second choice would be to work in leadership development and performance,
helping teams to work out how they can achieve greater productivity,
peak performance and their own leadership, individual leadership as well.
And so just on that, what are some of the really key common mistakes that leaders make?
I make them as well.
As I said, making some assumptions, not spending enough time to really get to the issue,
not asking the right questions.
So I think we have a culture in Australia where we're very action-orientated.
So you'll notice our question line is, so what are you doing?
What are we up to?
What do we need to do next?
What, what, what?
We love the what question, but I think the real gold or the real insights come from just
a simple line of question of the why and the how.
And so I think for me, you know, just helping executives to understand
that they've gone from being promoted from being phenomenal at the what
to then being able to step back from the what, like you said,
and empower people and then ask the questions of the why and how.
So you can really gauge where am I going to add value to be able to support them?
You know, is it to help them get clarity on what we're doing to and how it aligns to the strategy
or what might need to change to nuance that or in the how and support in the execution
because they haven't got the right resources to support them or the funding, et cetera.
So it's, it's, it's those questions.
And on that note, Damien, our time is up.
Thank you so much.
I have so enjoyed listening to you talk about the HQ.
In other words, the health quotient.
Most of us think in terms of IQ and EQ, but we don't always think in terms of HQ.
So that is really great advice.
I love your advice to never stop doing your best because that is the CV
that you're effectively handing out every day.
I really like the way that you're always careful to declare your intent,
tell people exactly what you need them to do, which will save time and make the whole
workplace more productive.
And I really like the way you switch off and reflect and why not go on a date with yourself?
I think that's really so fantastic.
So thank you again so much for allowing us to spend 15 minutes with the boss.
Thank you, Sully.
And thank you to everyone for listening.
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This podcast was hosted by me, Sully Patton, produced by Lapfan and Alex Gao.
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